To: Tina999 Re: Prednisone etc...

Hi, I saw your last post on our other heading and wanted to relate a couple things I learned about Prednisone. First, I was put on it when my Doc saw my thyroid antibodies were pretty high. He had me take 15 days of it divided as follows; 5-days of 30mg, 5-days of 20mg and 5-days of 5mg. Like Ar1282a, who was on it, I felt absolutely terrible when tappering off of it BUT, felt like I could climb mountains when it was in my system but not built up too high. The higher dose significantly raised my blood pressure and increased my heart rate. "Cortef" is the cortisol hormone the Osteopath Dr. recommended I take in low-dose along with my thyroid med. Medical websites I've been to, also said Cortef is natural cortisol, while Prednisone is "steroid". It takes 25mg of Cortef, to make 5mg of Prednisone! This I confirmed with a Pharmacy. I also heard about the licorice root extract and have thought about trying it. Did you also know you can get "adrenal glandulars" over the counter? ( Ar1281a, hope you read this post too) There are also "adrenal support" vitamins that have selenium, magnesium, vit.C, etc... but also contain small amounts of adrenal glandulars. I bought a bottle of "CortiTrophin" recently, which contains potassium, glycyrrhizic acid and "adrenal powder" (hormone free) but have only taken some three or four times. I got this from a company with a staff of PhD Dr.s, called Vitamin Research Products (VRP.com) and is compounded by Pharmacists. I have been afraid to take it for a period long enough to help but am seriously considering it now. (Continued below>>>)

[Jimlow]

I too take a subligual B-complex and notice a significant increase in energy. I know for fact my energy on the CortiTrophin is not the "placebo effect", it is definately real. The reason I haven't told this before on the forum, is I don't want to look as if I'm advocating self-treatment or recommending things that are not Dr. approved. However, I also know people that have been cured by natural treatments, my wife for one. Also, DHEA is over the counter and many websites state that it is a precurser to cortisol, so taking it will raise cortisol levels and make adrenal fatigued people feel better. I just don't know how DHEA would interract with thyroid hormone.
I believe if a person tests any of hese things at small doses and VERY GRADUALLY increases to a dose, still as low as possible and monitors thmselves closely, how can their be any danger. If side effects begin to appear, then dose should be lowered until the side effect is elieviated.
Dr.s would strongly urge against natural suppliments as these, so how about a patient asking his Doc if he can help monitor doses of these natural meds. Anyway, these are ONLY ideas and I recommend anyone trying these, should first consult their Dr. and also thoroughly research about anything like this you are considering.
I mainly wanted to bring up about how much more powerful Prednisone is, compared to Cortef.
Sorry I posted so long.

[ar1281a]

I can only say that I dislike prednisone, If I can I'll never take it again in my life. It made me feel sooooooo awful, but it did not increase my BP. To the contrary I had hypotension. Also, contrary to what many people report about feeling very energetic, I was the opposite with no energy at all. Dos were puzzle at my reaction to prednisone, now they think it may have contributed some how to my current problems. But, they are ruling out other things (like the MVP or pituitary adenoma for my OI)

May I ask why would you like to take prednisone Tina999?

[tina999]

As I understand it-which is always in doubt!- I seem to have symptoms of an adrenal insufficiency-specifically a lack of aldosterone.  This leads to a loss of salt and water.  I drink the water back in but I can't keep the salt and soon have low serum salt levels leading to nausea, headaches, tremors, weakness, salt cravings, delirium (slurred speech, confusion, cognitive impairment) and a loss of peripheral circulation.  The next steps down the low salt road are seizure, coma and death.  I made it to delerius three times in the two week period I took the synthroid.  This all looks like Addison's disaes but by adrenal glands are fine.

For someone with addison's, they give low doses of prednisone or another cortisone mimic forever.  My thought is that if I could start taking the synthroid and pednisone and then wean off the prednisone once my body is back to a more euthyroid state, the adrenals might readapt.  However Jimlow's above comments make me wonder if I won't just return to the way I am feeling now.

[bonniejean]

I am a asthmatic in in addition to having thyroid problems.
I have been on prednizone many times for my asthma. The side effects can be very damageing to your liver and cause excessive weight gain. I would reccommend that you find something else.


Bonnie

[Jimlow]

Tina, there's two other people above who had problems on Prednisone, like I did. You might do a search on Cortef Vs. Prednisone. Like I said above, Pred., is "steroid" (powerful synthetic hormone) wheras Cortef is supposed to be natural cortisol (hydrocortisone)hormone and much milder. I believe Pred. is intended for full blown Addison's or severe inflammatory conditions.
Many medical sites I've read, said Cortef at low-dose is safe BUT, I wish I could tell you for sure if this is true. There is an MD, who wrote a book called "Safe Uses Of Cortisol", you might put that title in as a search, to find articles. His full name is William McK. Jeffiries MD and he claims low-dose Cortef, will not cause side-effects or "adrenal supression". The article I read that inspired me to order the CortiTrophin, was on VRP's website. It is a very informative article you can get to by putting the following in exact; http://www.vrp.com/art/563.asp
It tells of several options for treating low adrenal, plus, the CortiTrophin, is available through them.
It's terrible how confusing these things can be but I do believe you will come to a comfortable answer as you research a little more. I believe the CortiTrophin I ordered is a very possible answer and if I take an experimental round of it, I'll report my experiences.

[ar1281a]

Hi Tina999,

I'm not a Dr but this is my understanding. Adrenal glands produce two types of hormones: mineralocorticoids and Glucocorticoids. Cortisol is a Glucocorticoid and helps with stress, etc. Prednisone is a sintetic type of Glucocorticoids. In the other hand mineralocorticoids regulated sodium and potassium, kidney function, etc. The principal steroid with mineralocorticoid activity is aldosterone. So, in other words if you take prednisone it wouldn't help with mineralocorticoids. To the contrary, it may have adverse effects on the production of this hormone (this is what Drs now think happened to me by taking prednisone - a possible side-effect, maybe because there's some insufficiency already, they don't know yet and are trying to figure it out). In the meantime, to help with my low BP and some of the other symptoms (similar to yours but not as bad) they are giving me a low dosis of florinef, which is a mineralocorticoid and it has helped. Now, this is something your own Dr needs to evaluate as this is a powerful drug (like prednisone) and it helps your body to retain sodium and thus with my specific symptoms which include not only the OI, but also hypotension, tingling, and other symptoms you describe (not as bad though). So my suggestion is to explore this route rather than the prednisone one as it wouldn't help. But again, it needs to be evaluated by a Dr. Mine came to this conclusion this week after not been able to figure out what's going on. Florinef makes full effect after 7 days, I've been on it for 4 days and can feel the difference. If the prednisone caused this problem they want to wait and see if my glands can restart (which can take b/t 2 weeks and 6 months) or r/o any other condition that might have been there and that got worse after the prednisone. Again this is my case. Among the things they're r/o are the MVP that jimlow mentioned (although has nothing to do w/insuff it does with OI) and pituitary MRI to see if there's any lesion or something like that. My Dr (a new GP BTW) thinks that it's prob an effect of the prednisone but wants to r/o these other things anyway (which I'm all up for!). I really hope this info helps you, talk to your Dr about this possibility so he can evaluate you for this condition. Take care and please keep us posted.

[tina999]

Ugghhhh,

It all begins again.
On my second day at 12.5 ug I can't keep much water in (inability to concentrate urine in the drs terms)  and I am feeling a bit puny already as all my salt follows my water.  This sucks.

hey Ar,  I thought the prednisone could bind to the aldosterone receptors too.   I guess it gets metabolized by the liver to a form that is more similiar to aldosterone so some Addison's take only it however in an adrenal crisis it doesn't work as it can't get metabolized quickly enough.  That's all hazy though so I could totally be wrong.   So did you have the adrenal "issues" before the predinisone or just when trying to stop taking it?  My mom has all types of joint problems and will take steroid packs now and then.   She said she turns into a mental nut for five days after the last pill and doesn't feel real well either.   Sounds similiar to what Jimlow goes through with his symptoms being physical.   Having issues weaning off steroids could be another theme that might point to an underlying physiology that would make you more predisposed to the reaction to the thyroid meds.

What sucks the worst is I feel like I have to get sick as hell again just to prove to the new endo that I really have a problem.  He does listen at least and believes I am not lying.  I am off to the health nut store to buy some licorice root and see if they have salt pills.  The cardiologist told me drug stores will carry them for old folks with kidney problems.    Uggghhhhhh.

[ar1281a]

Hi Tina999,

I'm not a Dr or anything like that, but my Dr told me that prednisol doen's have mineralocorticoids. All I can say :-)

Yes, I had some weakness before the prednisoe and that's why they're trying to r/o any previous underlying condition before saying for sure that all that's happening to me is as a result of the prednisone. Def prednisone didn't help and made feel even worse. From what I've read, it can take anything from 2 weeks to 6 months to get your adrenals working "properly" after stopping the prednisone. I just don't like the prednisone.

I'm sorry to hear that you're feeling bad again, thank God you got a new Dr that's listening to you and that sounds caring.

Take care, hope you feel good soon again and pls keep us posted

[tina999]

Hi Ar,

You were so right!  Hyrdocortisone can undergo a conversion but prednisone can't.  My brain is so full of medical stuff these days I can't keep anything straight.   I am glad I talked to you however as I wouldn't have remembered that and then been confused why the predinisoe wasn't helping.

[plv]

you do know too much ,get all your hormones tested........especially your testosterone

[plv]

prednisone is a tricky thing............has to be taken short term and lowest dose as possible.................your body makes many steroids........try to let your body be itself