I am glad someone is asking about that. I posted something a couple of weeks ago about feeling bad before feeling better, but I did not have any feedback. It seems to me that not many people in this forum are taking desiccated thyroid…anyway I think that what happened to me was that I was taking the reformulated formula for naturethroid/weshtroid.
For the first time I started to feel a little better in late January (started treatment in August.) I needed some more medicine according to my test results so I increased from 1.5 grains to 3 grains in about a month or so. But when I refilled my prescription by the end of January, beginning of February, I started to feel pretty bad. It is being more than a month and I have been taking 3 grains for almost three weeks now and I have been felling awful. I had a sex hormones revolution, acne, bloating, terrible constipation, depression and anxiety among other things. I am still looking for my right dose, but how can I feel worse at 3 grains after I had started to feel better at 1.5?
I am confused and I hate all this reformulation stuff. I am very sensitive to minimal changes in medicines and I am not sure if it’s me (probably I am going nuts) or the new naturethroid/westhroid .
I wish I could take the synthetics because it is easier to get, but I had an allergic reaction. I am tempted sometimes though.
I am curious about if other people taking naturethroid have “felt” this “reformulation.”
What do you mean by “bump"
Thanks for responding. When you type" bump", that brings your post back up to the top of the forum without having to type another message. I do this when I really want an answer to my question and I've gotten little or no response. Many people miss posts if they are not toward the top. So, does the Nature-Throid you are taking have RLC on the pill and is it scored for dividing? This is what I have seen on the new pills I just got in but have not used yet.
Hi guys, Here is what happened to me. I got so sick of the shortage with Nature-Throid I ordered
Erfa thyroid from Canada. I took for about two weeks when my local pharmacy called and said Nature-Throid was in . I decided to try the New Nature-throid
so took for about a week and started to feel that death fatigue thats how I felt on Synthroid. I wondered If it was the nt doing this to me so I started back on the Erfa thyroid and my energy came back. I still don't feel as good as I did on the old nt but I have to give Erfa at least 6 weeks. I take Erfa under the tongue because when I took it as directed I felt very hyper? I have no Idea why. Now I wonder if I should try half nt and half Erfa. I hate to keep switching it makes my body crazy!!
How exactly did you feel on NT (symptoms). And did you get labs done to take some guess work out of going by feeling? I,ve had a hard time getting used to NT and I think its still the old stuff (marked like the old stuff).
I also have some ERFA as my shortage stash in the freezer. Have not opened though. Was hoping to try to prove that NT works for me, since its localy available here. Like you I seem to be very sensitive to med changes.
Yes, my pills have the RLC on it and it is scored for dividing. I guess they are the new ones.
I am planning to have some bloodwork done in a couple of weeks to see how are my numbers. My doctor suggested switching from NT to Armour because NT was not working for some of his patients. It has not worked for me either since I started in August but I am always thinking I have to give it more time.
But truly, do I have any other option since Armour was reformulated and it is out of the market and, on the other hand, I am allergic to either synthroid (unithroid, etc) or cytomel (not sure to which one or maybe both)??
I did not have labs done yet, I do have an appt. with Endo the end of April. I think he will order blood work then. My symptoms from the new NT was extreme Fatigue, very cold low temps around 96.5 all day, My hair started getting dry. Then like I said I started back on Erfa and temp went up to 98.4 just after 2 days. I was also wanting NT to work but since I started the Erfa first I think my body is trying to get use to it. How long have you been on NT? Have you tried the New NT?
yep- That's the new formula! I hear it also has microchrystaline cellulose (also called micro cellulose) I 'm pretty sure that this is the same change or close to it that Forest previously made with Armour. I bet their hands were tied and that the FDA gave them no choices here! ("do it or we'll fine you or shut you down") They've done it before to Time Caps Labs and Majors, so they'd do it again! Why else would RLC make the same changes to their med that drove everyone from Armour to Nature-Throid? That would make absolutly no logical since to do so unless they had no chioice in the matter!!!! It seems to me that messing up the meds that have worked better for so many, is just another attempt by the FDA to force us all onto Big Pharma synthetic meds that keep many of us sick with hypothyroid issues/symptoms! If they can't get us to switch with the lies and propaganda they peddle to the world of endocrinology, then trying to ruin our medication is certainly their next scheme! What will be next??? People, we must wake up and quit giving all our rights away to these power hungry government agencies. It's not about our health, it's about the money! The sicker they can make us, the more money they all can make!!! It's job security to keep us all sick! The ugliness of it all makes me want to throw up!!!!! And my little girl, as many of you are, is caught right in the middle of it all. She cannot take Synthetic T4 medication! She cannot take reformulated Armour! Now I am afraid that she will not be able to tolerate reformulated Nature-Throid! That really doesn't leave us too many choices here for living without a thyroid gland!!!!!!!
I've been on NT since mid December and having difficulty getting leveled. At first I was hypo on NT of about two minths. Then after opening another bottle I went hyper, so now backing down. But both sealed bottles had the old NT markings on the pills.
I felt great in Nov after 4 months on the last Time Caps Labs dessicated to be made and found before the FDA ended its production forever last summer. It was a generic copy of original Armour - so I got used to that. I can say it was different than NT for sure. I believe ERFA is a generic copy of old Armour as well, thats why its just called 'thyroid' in Canada
I would rather prove that NT can work on me since it is made and sold in the US. I'm not comfortable with needing Canadian ERFA Thyroid even if it works. The feds (McCaine and friends) are trying to shut down the border pharma ordering that is going on. If this ever happens, then no more meds of any kind from other countries for the USA.
They even want to stop all supplements to, making all supps needing prescriptions - even regular vitamins. They got shot down big time on that one just recently if you read it yesterday. Once again they are on big US Pharmas side, not ours. Just crazy.
Your saying the new NT now has the same filler as the reformulated Armour? wow.
Conspiracies aside, I dont see how FDA can tell then what to put in for filler though.
Some food for thought:I called Major in August, they said FDA was forcing them to reapply as a new drug and they did not have the $ resources (lawyers) to invest is such a small money generating product. New drug approval costs big $. So Major just said forget about it - it was kind of forced.
As an engineer understanding manufacturing costs, I can say filler choices can determine manufacturing - time and cost to make it - might be the driving factor with NT's decision. Time is cost, cost is everything.
I read that the changes were made to the kind of cellulose in it.
I am not aware of the changes made to armour, I never took it, not the good one, not the bad one.
I have been reading some posts in other sites and most people are felling worse than before.
They win. I am giving up, I can not take this anymore.
I have tried almost everything.
Since I started treatment dessicated has been reformulated twice, backordered, difficult to get, ect, ect.
I am going to talk to my doctor and think very seriously about quitting all toghether.
I keep increasing and never feel good. What is the limit? 10 grains?
I really do not know what to think or what to do.
I am done.
Don't quite taking your meds. You have to take something so that you don't become severly hypothyroid, that's no good and not the answer. Try taking it the way Lazy Moose has suggested. However, this won't work for my daughter as there is no way I will convince her to chew it or disolve it in her cheek- taste too bad for a child to do this - yuk! (we tried once) I visited with my compounding pharmacist today and he feels that it is very clear now that it IS the FDA interfering and forcing the changes due to the NDA process. There is a quick one (abbreviated) where the drug stays on the market and a longer pricy one. Of course these manufacturers want the quicker, less costly approval so they do as they are told to do by the FDA. Since desiccated hormone is a "grandfathered in " medication (as these medications were around before the FDA exsisted and have proven itself safe and effective), the FDA continues to make them jump through hoops as they'd just as well like to have them off the market (what better way then to do it through the market place when we no longer will purchase a medicine that doesn't work as well for us, now that the changes, that the FDA required, have been made, it's BRILLIANT!!!! Remember-(no patons on desiccated just like herbs can't be pattonted).The FDA much prefer us all on the synthetic t4 meds who had pattons and lots of money to recoup. I've also heard that many former "Big Pharma" employees now serve or work for the FDA. I'm sure there are lots of kick backs, bribes, deals, grants and monies to be made here by the big influence that "Big Pharma" has on this agency.
This is what my pharmacist and doctors that I know all believe and feel that the changes in Nature-Throid now following the changes with Armour, prove their theory was correct. I've thought it through over and over again! It must be the reason. I don't think RLC would shoot themselves in the same foot that Forest did just to save a few bucks. Besides, RLC prided themself on their superior , more hypoallergenic with pure USP powder product. They know that everyone switched over to them all at once due to the negative effects that people had with the Armour changes, so why would they do the same unless they were required to???
Well, there needs to be a reason. The filler holds the pill together for shipping (it needs to pass an FDA shaker table test of pre-determined time), but it must also break down in stomach acid. Maybe this was not possible to pass FDA testing with the old filler. This new filler is also used by some compounding pharmacies unless you specify another. There are still differences between new Armour and new NT. Hopefully NT is still better for some. Even the old NT was not the same as old Armour as far as I can tell right now. Lets not sign it off yet.
Time will tell what happened, and how it effects or doesn't effect people.
I just tried to refill my NT prescription and got Armour instead-thought that was weird given the shortage. I felt pretty good on it for about 4 days, then the fatigue started in again. Called every pharmacy in town and none had NT/USP Thyroid, and even acted cocky about it, like they didn't even care that people depend on it. Now I'm panicking wondering what's going to become of people who can't tolerate the new formulas, or even the synthetics. If the gov't thinks they have a problem with health care now, imagine taking away our thyroid meds. Everyone sounds the same, severe fatigue, inability to cope with stress, depression, anxiety, etc. I feel without my thyroid medication I will eventually go downhill so bad I'll be unable to work, function, take care of myself and family. What good is that to society to have millions of people in this condition??? It's insane to take away the little thing that makes us be able to cope. Is there anywhere we can make our voices heard? GNC sent us an email about how SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN is behind legislation to take away our rights to supplements. How can a person do this? Simple things like vitamins, iron, and protien drinks are what keep us able to live and function! Sorry to rant but this is insane what's happening.
Les - it is frustrating.. but we will get through it. The McCain bill sounds like he will walk away from it. That's good.. but others may try again later on.
Just always stay informed.
As for you meds. I have not tried the new NT yet but have a script here in the house. Each one of us is different and many other factors could be the reason why it isn't working good at this time for you.
Here are just a few thoughts.
Are you taking a "good" thyroid vitamin supplement package? Could you need one now? If so I have a thought,.
Are you taking selenium? - That could help.
Its been 4 days on NT right? - give it a little more time. Due to the changes, you may just need an increase on it. Be patient.
Don't just switch meds over and over too quick. That is hard on the body. For me, when I went to NT after the Armour change - it tooks months for really get back to normal. Then when I couldn't get NT - I was forced to switch to ERFA. That didn't take quite as long to adjust - but still I had to go through another adjustment again.
Test - always test after any change or increase. Protocal is 6-8 weeks testing - but I don't believe it takes that long personally. I see great success following 4 weeks. And usually there is 1 increase within those 4 weeks taking place until my optimal dose is found.
alfonsa - Naturthroid and Westroid are identical and always have been. Getting on TV is been worked on as we type! - LOL
Everone, keep an open mind when it comes to the FDA. I hate to poo-poo the party here but the goal of the FDA is to keep us safe from things. I know they are as crupt as other organizations and politicians - but the main stay of the FDA is for the people.
Its developing a proper group of advocates and experts to keep the information all together w/ approach. That is a tough job - first hand of knowing.
Keep your chin up everyone. We'll get through this. and we will get through is much smarter and organized.
It is my experience that If I talk face to face with the 'boss' pharmacist (not some kid), ask questions in a informed and calm manner when they arent busy, you get better results.
Why places say they can get NT - Nature Thyroid is NOT distributed by the big med suppliers, so it wont be on their computer if they never had it. Its usually ordered and shipped from NT (RCL Labs)directly to the pharmacy store in smaller quantities if they want - not the way stores prefer to order. Walgreens and CVS can get it, but they need to pick up the phone and call them to order it the old fashioned way - too much work in this day of computers. Dont take no for an answer, just because their to lazy to get it for you.
I am doing very well so far on the new NT I really love it has worked much better for me then anything else. I jumped on the wahon to late to ever get the old stuff of this or armour so I guess that helps a bit not knowing how I felt on that.
I started with NT and then decided to treat for RT3 problem for a while have went back to NT and I went down a grain from 3 to 2 and I am feeling really good no fatigue setting in yet so I am very hopeful!
And I don't know if it is just coincidence or not but I have a back problem I have unstandable pain in my lower right back some days it has been so bad I can't get out of bed I have to roll over on the floor and push myself up this pain subsided the first go around on NT came back while I was off and now that I have started again I am not in pain still have a dull ache there but not anything like I am use to which is wonderful this will be a major plus for me.
I will try to get my labs done mid April and see what is happening that way but I do know I feel good I am not tired, minimal hair loss, less pain, oh ya and the return of my monthly cycle they are getting pretty regular now have been extremly irregular for years!
So don't loose hope yet because I didn't feel this way on the reformulated armour.
I started nature-throid 3 weeks ago & feel very tired. I also had constipation issues, but bumped up the fiber & that is helping. I test in 4 weeks & I'm going to ask for another 1/2 a grain. It just doesn't feel as strong as old formula Armour. I cannot take new Armour because it causes elevated bp & pulse.
I have a couple of months left on the old NT. I just moved up to 5 grains to reduce the joint pain. No hyper symptoms so far. Now I am really worried about the new NT. It sounds like the Armour reformulation problem all over again. What about ERFA? Is it hard to get and do doctors have a problem prescribing it? I was on the old Armour 2 grains (doing just ok) new Armour (doing horrible), tried Synthroid w/ & without T3 (did even worse than new Armour) and went back to NT and gradually upped from 2 grains to 5 grains (feeling much much better, 2nd day on 5 grains). I hate this switching around. Why can't they leave our medicine alone?! My doctor is going to croak when he sees how much I've upped it. I go for labs at the end of the month.
Hi Just to say do you mean Armour - natural pigs thyroid ?
I tried it but could never get started on it b/p and pulse went up! As we are made
differently to pigs it is too strong for us humans, I would never take it again that's
I know when your really ill we clutch at straws and we would try anything but its not worth it. I also tried a natural cortisone and that didn't agree with me either it had the same effect. So please be careful !!
Nature Throid (NT) is pig thyroid as is Armour. I've never had b/p or pulse problems during the 4 years on it. Dr. always comments on how good both of mine are. People are so different it amaszes me sometimes. Thanks for the concern though. I am planning to go back to 4 grain until I get my labs and see where I am.
Hi to all! I've been on vacation in sunny Destin, Florida, (beautiful white sand beaches, but still a little chilly and cloudy in March), but great posting on my thread while I was away. Foreverlostmom and LazyMoose, please keep us posted on symptoms / and or relief of symptoms and lab results as you move forward on the new "reformulated" Nature-Throid. I will be praying for your good results with this, as my daughter will eventually be giving it a try if all goes well for you. I have enough of the original Nature-Throid to make it until November, however we may need to begin the new formula in the summer while she is home from school and has time to adjust to the changes while at home with me all day and I can monitor her symptoms. If we attempt to make the change during the school year, and there is trouble with hypothyroid symptoms returning (like joint pain and fatigue as she experienced on the new reformulated Armour) then it could be really bad for her. So please keep me in the loop here as I will be following (as many others are ) your results very closely. Thanks a million!!!!
We here know there are more people out there reading this on Nature Throid. Yes, all you newbies and gawkers of years, now is your chance to volunteer very valuable information to the thyroid community.
So, let us know of your experiences with Nature Throid for others to learn. Dont be chicken, no junk mail is sent when you sign up to medhelp!
I could not get good levels on NT, but not sure if my very low free levels are due to NT or other thyroid / health issues yet.
I had a personal choice within my control, to end NT. So I did, because something needed to be done after I woke Wednesday morning so hypothyroid my vision was greatly affected for 10 minutes. When its 1/2 dark with the lights on and the rest is blurry, it cant be good. That was the last straw. By the way my thyroid was swelled too.
Fact is, I seem to feel better now three days after dropping NT and taking what I have left of discontinued generic Armour by Time Caps. Like night and day in only three days. Yet, three days is not enough valid evidence, and I may have other issues not proven yet. Coincidence? Even if its a combination of things
Labs will tell the whole story if the doc will do a 'half time' lab just to show direction of possible improvement.
I am doing well on it. I am nearing a month since I started taking it again and I am not having the fatigue issue as of yet. I have not had any lab work done so not sure where I stand there. If I still have insurance when i get back to town next week I will get them done but my year may be up :(
I am hoping my FT3 is in range so crossing my fingers for that because I do not want to decrease again I am on 2 grains now feel like maybe could use a small increase but my FT3 is so dang difficult!
I never took old NT or armour so I really can't compare but I do feel better on this then I did on armour or synthetics.
Alfonsina- Thanks for posting your labs. The old N.T. did not have any scored dividing lines on it. So if your pills have always had this then you've always been on the new formulatin. I agree with you that the freet3 needs to come down into the higher side of normal range so a slightly lower dose will hopefully do it for you. Your T4 will probably sit somewhere under the t3 level (shoot for mid range or slightly higher) and your TSH will probably be under 1 (close to zero where you are now). Do you have a thyroid gland? Since my daughter does not, knowing this will help me to target her treatment later if I decide to give it a chance.
LazyMoose- I'm sorry that it's not working out for you- What's next for you as you will not be able to get any Time Caps when your supply runs out. Stella is doing great on Erfa thyroid from Canada. Will you go that route? I worry that the feds will not allow us to get meds from them forever. Especially since the health care bill is in motion. Who knows what's included in there?
foreverlostmom- You are giving me hope here! When are your labs? I look forward to seeing the results if you will be so kind as to share them? Also, do you have a thyroid gland? Thanks a million for all your help!
I first wanted to find out if NT worked for me, obviously since because its available here. I realy wanted it to work. Bummed .
On my super low labs, it appeared to make the FT4 and FT3 way more separated in their fanges compared to other brands. It like my FT3 was gone and FT3 was more potent on NT. FT3 is what rules your med intake and maybe the ratio of t3 to t4 in your body from the med. Their powder must be from "super pigs" with higher T3 than regular pigs - obviously not a scientific observance on my part LOL.
NT might be better with me combining some synthroid with it - more complicated than what patients my endo has I think.
Yes, I only have limited Time Caps dessicated left. I went that route as a sort term test since it worked in the past and is OK with my current doctor.
I have ERFA in the freezer as a backup, never tried it..........it was not a script from this current endo, so I have to let him know. Just changing to a brand without his knowledge would not be a smooth move on my part.
Reformulated Armour worked better for me I think than NT.
For others reading this ,Stella let me know there is extended release synthetic T3 now, so for those that shook like a meth addict on original Cytomel, there is another choice.
So I realy hope NT works for most people, and anyone reading this should not freak out as we all have different outcomes with different meds.
I have a thyroid. I do not know how your daughter experiences increases and decreases, but since I decreased (three days ago) for the first time in months, I have been having a hard time (nose bleeding, joint pain, crying for nothing and everything). It was 1/2 of grain, but it probably will do with the high FT3.
I think my FT4 will drop as well and I do not like that. I know some doctors prescribe NT or Armour with some additional T4 (synthroid or other), but I can not take synthetics since I had rections.
I am a little worried about this. I will have some new labs done in about four or five weeks at my current dose, 2.5 grains and I will post them in this same thread.
As I said before I do not feel any better yet but I think, or at least for me, stability is the key. Same dose, taking it at same time, and hopefully I will see the difference.
I really need to start feeling better sooner than later. I will be going to grad school any time this year or the next one and concentration is a big issue. I really want to perform well.
Hello Magpie Annie - I just had an opportunity to look at the medication I was on that didn't work for me. As you know I am in Canada. I was finally switched from my Eltroxin T4 med 200 to 125 Erfa Naturethroid Aug 08. I was feeling pretty darn good too. Unfortunately, all those pills are gone, I only have the empty bottle so I can't tell you what the pills actually said on them. So I finished those and had to get a refill May 25, 2009.
I incorrectly assumed I was still on Naturethroid as I was just getting a refill. I JUST looked at the bottle that I still has meds left in it because I stopped taking them in Nov 2009. I became so sick and put on at least 20lbs and felt they simply weren't working for me at all. I couldn't understand it. I see that the new bottle says dessicated thyroid, 125mg and the pills say ECI 125 on them. Does anyone have any idea what I was on? Was this still Naturethroid? or was the Naturethroid not available for awhile so the pharmacist refilled me with something else without telling me? or was this old Naturethroid and I just got really hypo due to lose doseage? I am very curious now that I have read this post.
I am happy to report that I am now on Eltroxin T4 100 and Cytomel T3 25 and I am feeling very healthy, alert and alive for the first time in months, however, I have a lot of work cut out for myself now to get myself looking better again.
If anyone knows what I was on I would be very grateful to know. Thank you! C
Just for all who might be reading this and are confused - people not in this thread. Dont get the brands mixed up with the product description. Natural Dessicated Thyroid is a descriptive term. The natural means animal derived, dessicated means dried, thyroid- from a thyroid gland itself. Dried pig thyroid gland to be blunt.
Nature - Throid (spelled this way) is a USA made natural dessicated thyroid med made by RLC Labs.
There is no such thing as "Erfa Naturethroid". That is a Canadian company mixed
with a USA brand.
EFRA is a Canadian Drug company and their natural dessicated thyroid type of med is simply called Thyroid. Commonly called "ERFA Thyroid"
A pill that has ECI 125 etched in it is 125mg or 2 grain size of ERFA Thyroid and has nothing to do with the Nature-Throid US brand.
1)So, in Canada, you found US made Nature-Throid brand in a pharmacy? What do they have etched on them?
2)What pills made you sick, what do the etching say? helpful for your info
Sorry to confuse everyone. But now it makes complete sense to me at least.
I wrongly presumed that Erfa made both the meds I was on. My first bottle said Nature-throid on it but there are no pills left cause I took them all. I remember the first time I saw it I thought they had made a spelling mistake because there was no "y" in the Throid. They worked great. Also, my pharmacist had to special order it and I had to wait for a call to pick them up.
My refill, that sucked, says Desiccated Thryoid on it. It obviously is the Erfa brand cause the pills say ECl 125 on them. I have pills left because I stopped taking them they did not seem to be doing a thing. That is was I needed to know, now I understand why I had such a problem with my health once I started taking the refill.
Well, I definately won't be taking that stuff again thats for sure.
Thanks for clearing that up LazyMoose - c
Hi there! Good to hear from you again C. So, if the Nature-Throid that you were doing good on was taken in August 08 then it was the original formula, which is what my daughter is also still on. Now the question is will the new formula work for you, my daughter and others? It obviously isn't right for Lazy Moose (good luck to you LM, I hope it's just the meds causing you problems and not another issue)! However, it seems to be working well for foreverlostmom and Alfonsia is still deciding. Blood work results will tell us even more when they get these done. So are you planning on trying the Nature-Throid again (made by RLC) even though the fillers have been changed? I'm surprised that Canadian (ERFA) thyroid didn't work well for you. I hear good things about it (like old good Armour brand (before reformulation) (made by Forest). Hope to hear from you soon!
So your t4 is very low in the range on the new Nature-Throid? That is what happened to my daughter's t4 as well on the new reformulated Armour, which caused her to have severe joint pain and fatigue. Maybe the increase in cellulose is causing the t4 to not release from the pill or keeping it from binding to the proteins in the body somehow? Her t3 was also significantly lower on the new Armour , but not as drastic as the t4. On the original Nature-Throid (which she is on now) her t3 (top of the range) is always higher then the t4 (mid range to slightly above) with the TSH under 1. She does well here. Since the Nature-Throid changes seem to be similar in their product as the ones made to Armour (it's got to be the FDA behind it all), I am really concerned as to how it will now work for my daughter, as the Armour was no longer acceptable for her once they messed with it.
What a nightmare this all is! I hope you figure out the correct "path" for you again soon! God Bless!
I reread your post, so it looks like you are doing well with the synthetic t4 and t3 (eltroxin and cytomel) so I guess you will stay with this? I'm glad it's working for you! and that you are settled in with your treatment. I wish we could say the same, however the "powers that be" keep changing things on us here in the US. They are really making it difficult for us to stay euthyroid when every little change must be adjusted to by the user and then it may or may not work after we've given it time! So frustrating!
Not yet, but that will probably be what we eventually end up with. I trust my pharmacist very much and I know he would work closely with us and my daughters doctor until we got it just right. He is up on all of what 's been going on with desiccated and their changes and delays, and the FDA with their NDA's etc. He consults with me on my daughter's labs and situation on a regular basis, so I know he would take her case very personally. I guess my concern is human error and issues with the fillers they may or may not use in their compounding. I worry that it may be too potent or release too quickly from the capsule and I'm unsure if we should use sustained or time released? I really am afraid to give her the reformulated Nature-Throid after we had such a bad reaction to the reformulated Armour. As far as Erfa Canadian Thyroid goes, my concern is that the government may eventually decide to stop allowing us to get meds shipped in from across the border. I need to get her on a med that works well for her and that will not be changed or unavailable. If hind site was 20/20, I would have tried keeping her on Synthroid and added in the t3 cytomel to it before jumping ship. However, now that we are off that boat and I've experienced how much better she has been on desiccated thyroid hormone, I'm afraid to go back even with t3 Cytomel added to it. What would you do if this were your child? I value your opinion, so don't be shy! Thanks, Anne
TSH 0.45-4.567 - (0.02)
Free T3 2.4-4.2 - (4.6)
Free T4 0.71-1.85 -( 0.77)
Vit D 30-80 - (91)
RT3 (235) current/335 feb
ana not detected
Here they are this is after I treated for RT3 and went down a grain. So I don't know I am feeling pretty good but man my FT4 is barley over wish I could bring my TSH up just a little to stop the doctor from freaking out. He told me I need to quit taking my thyroid meds that I am in toxic ranges!
Prior results on 3 grains
Free T3 5.6 (2.4-4.2) pg/ml
RT3 335 (90-350) pg/ml
T3 uptake 35 (28-41)
T3 total 178 (58-159)
No FT4 that time but prior to these follows
Free T4 1.28 (0.71-1.85)
How are you feeling overall at 2 grains? better or worse that at 3 grains? Did you tolerate well the 1 grain decreased?
Why is your doctor freaking out? because of your TSH?
Mine is 0.00 and my doctor told me he is not following that number. He is more interested in FT3 and FT4 results. If you are feeling better than when not taking medicine I do not see why you should quit your treatment.
Are you feeling hyper? if so then you need to think about something else, but if you are not I would just readjust the treatment.
At 2 grains your FT3 still looks a little bit high, but look at your FT4 it went super down, very hypo.
Some doctors prescribe dessicated along with some T4 only (like synthroid) for cases where FT3 is too high and FT4 doesn't go up. They say the ratio (T3/T4) on dessicated has more T3 than it should, that is why they mix it with the T4 only decreasing a little the dessicated dose.
About the RT3... I do not know much about that, not sure if finding the right numbers in your boodwork goes on that direction.
Yes TSH is the ONLY factor they want to look at. I did not have any issues decreasing but I also took a T3 only for a while inbetween.
I think the only improvement/difference is that maybe less fatigue since I decreased so I was probably a little hyper at that dose. But I feel pretty good but I am curious as how I could feel if I could get the FT4 up but I am in a mess with insurance I am done at the end of the month and won't be able to labs for a while so not sure what to do.
But otherwise no I do not feel hyper no fast heart rate, shaking, sweating, nothing not much fatigue at this point. My cycles are returning to near normal after years of infrequent cycles.
That free t4 is way low. I don't know if this is due to the lower dose or the new formulation? (were you on the old/original formula of Nature-Throid before this?) The freet3 looks better, now just slightly out of range and the TSH is really not that relivant, however your doctor probably won't agree. When you are on a t3 medication it will often be supressed to close to 0. Unless you feel hyper with hyper symptoms then the TSH is just a signal of a happy pituitary gland with no need to signal the thyroid to release more hormone because there is plenty available within the body/blood/cells. I do feel that the t4 needs to come up some, however it can lag behind and come up some after the freet3 does. When my daughter was on the reformulated Armour her freet4 also dropped to the low end of normal as yours is now on the lower dose of the reformulated Nature-Throid. Her t3 dropped some also, but not as much as the t4. She soon began to have joint pain and fatigue after this, due to the changes made in the Armour. Are you having any of this with your low t4?
I was never on the old naturethroid since I have been on natural I have had this issue but I was never able to get my labs right on synthetics either so who knows but my FT3 was never over range.
I am not having much pain, fatigue, hair loss at the moment. think it has been a month since I lowered so not sure how long it takes for it to set in but I was having more fatigue on the higher dose not sure if it was just coincidence or if that is my hyper symptom. I went up to the higher dose to raise my T4 which worked but it put my T3 out of range to much.
You know come to think about it I woke up with this same pain as I have had for a few days at the base of my skull so maybe I am having a few more aches then before just didn't relate it thought it was just a sore neck. Hmm thinking more about the added T4
I know that neck pain is a definite symptom that many peaple experience first (Stella5349 experiences this symptom first when things are getting imbalanced). My daughter first gets quiet and not as active, then ankles and knees begin hurting and popping,then the fingers, elbows neck and shoulders follow (her symptom "route" seems to be from the bottom,up when her meds are imbalanced- with top to bottom symptom relief when hormones get more balanced) Its like the first things to be effected are the last to get better and vice versa. Weird! Her final symptom is sever fatigue with the inability to get goin in the morning.
I think the addition of a synthetic t4 to get that free t4 higher (mid range at least) with a slight decrease on the Nature-Throid to get that t3 down into the range may be worth a try! If you decide to try this, please keep us in the loop with labs and symptoms as I will be crossing this same bridge with my daughter soon and am still trying to decide how best to meet this challenge. Thanks and best of luck!
I had my bloodwork results today, here are my results at 2 3/4 grains of NT for four weeks
TSH: 0.00 Range: 0.34-.4.82
FT4 : 1.10 Range : 0.59-1.61
FT3: 484 Range : 230-420
Here are previous results at 3 grains for three weeks.
TSH: 0.00 same range
FT4: 1.31 same range
FT3: 448 same range
After these last results I dropped for two weeks at 2.5 grains, I was in pain and had hair loss, no period so I increased to 2.3/4, however this last week has been horrible: joint pain, cant breathe, hair loss, I feel hypo, but my t3 is high.
I do not understand how come my T4 dropped with the 1/4 grain decreased and the T3 increased!! (could it be the one week gluten free dietI did?, could it be that feels like summer and it is hot, hot?)
I will se my doctor tomorrow, I m sure he will decrease my dose. I am afraid it is going to hurt and that my T4 is going to go down, down.
At 2 grains foreverlostmom went down with the T4 and I was down down at 1.5 grains.
I whish I could add some T4 medicine, but I had a reaction to it and I do not want to lose the little that I have gained.
It has been a crusade to find the right dose. Just want to stay there for more than a month.GGRRRR!
The split in the freet3 and freet4 level seems to really be the big issue with the new Nature-Throid formulation. It's like Lazy Moose said in an earlier thread on this post, it's like the t3 is from " Super Pigs" or something! It is really strange how the free t3 went up even after the slight decrease on Nature-Throid. T3 levels can lag behind the t4. Maybe the t3 is still the effect from the initial dose, finall showing it's true value in your body. We have to remember, we are talking cellular here! That's the frustrating thing when dealing with these hormones showing up in the blood, and symptom relief takes even longer, it's the time lapse that makes things so hard to judge! As far as the adding in some synthetic t4, what issues did you have on it before, as you said you can't take it. If the symptom was just weight related, then that would hopefully not be an issue as long as you were getting the t3 with it in desiccated N.T. as the t3 on this is more then enough. Also the addition of the gluten feree diet happening at about the same time as the decrease in your meds. could have also played a small part in this as 20% of the conversion process happens within the intestines. If the gut is healthier, then more of the t4 can convert into t3, thus making your t3 even higher and your t4 even lower. My daughter has been doing gluten free for 3 months and on a oral antifungal. She has lost 2 lbs. (this is a first), she is no longer hungry all the time (blood sugar finally under control), and we had to reduce her meds by 1/2 a grain because her freet3 and freet4 went high on the same dose that she had been doing great on for 9 months. I reduced her meds. (original Nature-Throid) by 1/2 grain 1 week ago and so far so good. She had been a little more talky with a little too much energy after the last grain of Nature-Throid aver the last month or so. Now I'm giving her 1/2 a grain with the last dose, and she is acting more like herself again. Also her reverse t3 was creeping up some on this last test, so more reason for the slight decrease. I will be taking her for labs at the end of the month, so I'll keep you posted. The only thing I can contribute to this change in her labs is the change in her diet and a healthier intestinal track, as we have not started the new Nature-Throid yet. So the gluten free could be having some impact on your numbers, however this should be a good thing, but adding this to the change in the Nature-Throid and that low t4 and high t3, I am really at a loss on advice. Are you sure you can't add in a little Synthroid an dthen back off the Nature-Throid to say 2 grains?
I went to see my doctor today, he was also clueless about the FT3 going up with the dose decreased. He also thought it could be related to the gluten free diet (only one week!) although I have been dairy, yeast, egg and corn free for two weeks.
As I understand T3 does not build in your body as T4 does, so is it posible that that number is the result of my previous dose at 3 grains, one month ago?
My FT4 went down and I think that is why I am feeling fatigue, although today per example I am feeling hyper (my chest). My pulse is at 75 per minute which is not bad.
He put me at 2.5 grains and said not to be playing around with the doses. I have to go back in three months.
The problem I had with T4 meds was itching all over. I could not take it.
Seeing my T3 going up that far I am afraid 2.5 grains will be too much. But at 1.5 grains I was very low which tells me that at 2 grains would not be enought either. I hope T3 does not continue building and goes down.
So your daughter also has problems of "balance" between FT3 and FT4 with NT?
I think that with all desiccated the t3 will usually run higher then the freet4 on labs. The issue with the new Nature-Throid and Armour is that the seperation in the two is even greater on labs. The manufacturers increased the cellulose and decreased the dexstrose in the fillers/binders and for some reason it's making the freet4 too low and the freet3 too high. Optimally most people need the t3 higher in the range without going out of range, with the t4 at mid range or slightly higher (a little lower then the freet3 level). The problem is that the t4 is way more then a little lower, it's falling significantly lower, close to thye bottom of the range , with the t3 often out of range on the high side. They should be in the same ball park! The old Nature-Throid is better at keeping things balanced, our issue is that her levels have been creeping up since we improved her intestinal issues and went Gluten free. It just seems that she is needing less med. now. Her t3 and t4 are close in range, the only issue is that they are both too high now and her reverse t3 is rising some. So we've backed off by 1/2 a grain for the first time ever, and she seems to be doing great so far (1 week now). Labs will be done at the end of the month, so we'll see for sure then. As far as the t4 meds go with the itching, did you try more then one brand? You are right that t3 is used quickly , yet I have heard that it lags behind on labs, so these do seem to contradict each other don't they? I just can't figure out why the t3 would have gone up after your decrease though? Maybe you should make a new post about this? It would be interesting to see if anyone can figure it out here! Keep in touch!
I've been on the new formulation for NatureThroid for 9 days now and I am starting to feel it. Very tired, wanting naps, waking up at night more, weepy, depressed. I had bronchitus right after I started so some of this may be related to being sick but I don't think all of it is. I have a dr. appt for labs on July 24th so I hope I can hold out until then. I've already talked to the local compounding pharmacist and she can do a time release with my dosage. Just have to talk to insurance to find out my cost on it. Wish me luck!
I had 2/3 removed in 206 due to nodules and suspected cancer. No cancer thankfully. The remaining 1/3 had atrophied according to the 2010 ultrasound. I've been on dessicated ever since I started and have Hashimotos. I was hoping I would feel okay on the new formulation but I'm not. I don't know if it is because I have been sick, the medicine really isn't working right or it is all in my head! I can't wait for my next labs.
I have thought of it but am hesitant about buying from Canada. If the gov't cuts off access I'll have to go to compounded anyway. It isn't looking good for my insurance to pay for compounded dessicated. If it is available in another form ins. won't pay according to the rep. I spoke with yesterday. Not sure aboutthat though as I just submitted and was paid for a compounded prescription for my son and I know it is available pre-made. It just doesn't work as well so we use the compounded version instead.
My daughter is nine and born without a thyroid gland. I switched her from Synthroid to desiccated Armour brand before reformulation 1 1/2 years ago and she did great until they reformulated. Then I switched her to Nature-Throid 1 year ago and she has done fantastic. Now it has been reformulated like the Armour. We will NOT be trying it! We will try the Erfa as it is similar to old/good (before reformulation) Armour and not too expensive. If it does not do well for her, then we will have to try compounded or go back to Synthroid with t3 Cytomel added. Synthroid alone did not cut the mustard for her (conversion issue). I have high hopes for the Erfa though, and am hoping for a smooth transition to it from the original Nature-Throid. If in the future, it is not available, then we will cross that bridge if and when we get to it (I have 6 months of original Nature-Throid left to hold us over if this happens until we can decide on a plan B). You can order up to 1 year in advance if your doctor will write a script for that much. It took 11 days to get it in the mail and it took 2 phone calls and 1 fax.It wasn't really that difficult to set it all up. I'll keep you posted!
My doctor didn't give me any problem ordering it. It is being processed by the pharmacy you recommeded and I think it will be shipped today. I went back on my reformulated armour since at least I didnt' hurt on it and I don't know how long it will take for the new stuff to arrive. Thanks for your help! I'll let you know what happens. Interesting when I went to the website it listed it as Armour Thryoid! When I called to confirm my script had been faxed they said it is marketed as Thyroid and is manufactured by ERFA. Can't wait to see the bottle. I order 500 so I would get the manufacturing packaging. Wish me luck!
That's good to hear Emmy. I hope you'll be "back up and running" soon! I am slowly getting my daughter switched over to it little by little. She started taking 1/2 grain split into two doses in place of 1/2 grain of her N.T. a week ago. I've slowly been tweeking it up. She is up to 1 grain taken in two 1/2 grain doses with the rest of the daily dose being her Nature-Throid. I will slowly keep doing this until I have her completly switched over. So far so good. No complaints and she is acting correctly. She has been on 21/2 grains of Nature-Throid. I hear the Erfa is slightly stronger, so I's shooting for 2 grains of Erfa before labs and then we'll see if she needs more. She was on 2 grains of original Armour, which was perfect for her. Keep in touch and best of luck to you too!
Thanks. I read on stopthethyroidmadness site that it has slightly less T4 & T3 in each pill. I'm shooting for 4 grains before labs in 3 months as I was on 4 on the old NT. If I started feeling hyper I will of couse drop it a alitte. I was undermedicated on the old armour at 2.5 tp 3 grains. Since I have to do a complete switch with no weaning over it might get interesting. I went back on my old armour yesterday since I was less hypo on it than the reformulated NT. I felt really good all day and had too much energy to go to sleep at my usual 9:30 time. Joints didn't hurt either. Definitely a difference between Armour & NT. My uncle who has graves and no thryoid now was recommeding his endo yesterday to me. He loves him and is the only dr who can get him feeling good. I called and he won't prescribe dessicated ever so I'm not interested. Of course my uncle is having heart arrythmia problems right now. I wonder if it is related to his synthroid? His TSH was 1 something and of course the frees weren't tested. They lowered his syn because of the heart beats.
My daughter had PVC's in her lower right ventricle on Synthroid alone. Of course her pediatric endo. also never checked the freet3. I later found out it was very low yet her t4 was very high (conversion issue) She no longer has heart issues on desiccated now that she gets help with the t3 level through her meds. We now keep her t3 high in normal range and t4 around mid range. total opposite of how her endo. kept her numbers. She feels better in EVERY way, but the heart was the biggy and enough to make me say-no more of this! New doctor, new med, new life! Now if "they'd" just quit messing with our desiccated meds so we could all stay consistent and well. I pray the Erfa is the answer for us both and that it will not be changed (pharmacy said it's been the same for 20 years) or made unavailable to us in the future.
Interesting labs after being on the new NT.
4/14 6/11 7/16 range
OLD NT 4-5grains OLD NT 3 grains New NT 4 grains
TSH .02 .03 .02 .34-5.60
FT4 .84 .83 1.01 .58-1.64
FT3 4.43 3.31 3.26 2.39-6.79
I reduced the old NT as I was feeling great but getting severe hand tremors and wanted to see if still felt good at lower dose while getting rid of tremors. Tremors left but didn't feel quite as good. Felt much more hypo on new NT. Interesting that FT4 rose though.
Here's a great article conecting PVC's, and Afib to Hypothyroidism (low available thyroid hormone)--remember- t4 is just a storage hormone that must convert to the biologically active thyroid hormone T3--- if this is too low--it can cause issues with the heart for sure.
you should read all of Dr. David Brownsteins books. If you are not responding it may be that your adrenals are not functioning. If the adrenals are down no amount of any form of thyroid will help you. Also, you may need other supplements he talks about like iodine (iodoral 12.5-50mg/day), zinc, selenium, A,C,E, B2,B3,B12 and protein. Stay away from soy, bakery goods, soda pops and gatorade. Detox and drink lots of water. You probably will experience some cleansing crisis' (comes on gradually and lasts several hours to several weeks, it is due to the toxins being stirred up but not yet exiting the body- increase water and temporarily decrease detox agents)and even a healing crisis (comes on suddenly right after a feeling of intense well being and lasts several days to several weeks), but this all means you are actually getting better. You may have a bumpy road ahead, but you cannot give up. Not an option. Good Luck.
Just so others know, this post is over one year old. Nature Throid was reformulated in late fall 2009, early winter 2010. Some people did not respond to the change very well and others moved on to other brands of thyroid replacement with good results.
Just reread this whole thread! Wow! What a stressful time for us all! How are you? Are you still doing well on the Erfa thyroid from Canada? My daughter has been on it over a year now and is doing well and is very stable on it. Her labs in May 2011 wer almost identical with a lower reverse t3 then they were 6 months prior (Nov.2010) so this was great news! I recently had to reorder another years worth from Canada and had no trouble getting it shipped in (arrived in 10 days), and she has been in the new 500 count bottles for 3 weeks! So far so good! (Praise God!) She will have labs taken again in November 2011. She is still on 2 1/2 total grains per day split between 3 doses per day (just as we started her on). Hope you are well and can give me an update on your status?
Still doing well on the Erfa. Wish I had discovered it years ago, can't get back lost time. I got a new bottle a few weeks ago from a reputable supplier, the tablets are harder to split which was a concern but I feel the same. I just hiked a very steep, rugged eight miles on the superior hiking trail which was a section I wanted to do for a couple of years now, it would not have been possible on the other thyroid meds I tried that did not work for me. Seems like most of the Erfa folks have disappeared from hear, I suppose that's a good thing? Its good to get updates since we get this from another country.
I did not know they had reformulated NT all I know is my BP started going through the roof pain in upper arm I have reduced dose with out doctors permission am going to go with erfa next new armour does not do it for me.I just found out that NT has polyethylene glycol in it and I am sensitive to a lot of that stuff. Any one else had BP spikes on NT ?
Yes, NT was reformulated late 09 to early 2010, just after Armour was reformulated. These companies change without notice, I have no idea what NT is like today. There are people that say Armour changed again, for the better, stop The Thyroid Madness site mentions this.
Erfa has to be ordered from Canada. There is no gaurentee US customers will be able to do this indefinitely due to something slid into the the Obama Care law from big US pharma companies.
If I were you, I'd give the new Acella NP Thyroid a try. Its like original Armour and Erfa. Its made in the USA, Walgreens, Walmart and Target can order it.
I'm not sure if this is any help, but I was on (and still am) ERFA from Canada. Due to problems getting it to where I live, I started to order Nature-Throid. I took the NT in the morning and the ERFA in the afternoon.
I went for my blood work a few weeks ago, and I have had a complete turn around, after just about getting there with my blood work, and feeling better. I am also now on tablets for pre-diabetes, which I managed to hold off from doing since my last blood work. My cholesterol is up too after controlling them both.
It would seem either NT isn't as good, or my body doesn't like it.
I'm back fully onto ERFA morning and afternoon, with half a grain of NT in the morning. Blood work to be done in another 6 weeks or so.
My endocrinologist seemed sceptical about the NT and said he would do his research on it.
So, for me NT doesn't work.
Your results from a few years ago are similar to my current ones and I'm wondering if things normalized for you. Are in a better place? If so, what worked? I tried Armour in 2010 and broke out in a rash so I stuck to Synthroid, but I have never felt good. I finally tried NT and felt great in the first week, but then it's been getting worst ever since - hypo symptoms - brain fog, weight gain. I'm on 2G now with the results that you had... trying to figure out the best next course of action.
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