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6 year old daughters labs
Hello,
Hello my daughter is 6 years old and was diagnosed last July as Hypothyroid and
now mild Hashi with a slighlty elevated TPO. I am also Hypo and changed to
NDT in June of last year. It has been a rocky road for both of us getting
Dr.'s/endocrinologist to up our meds.
Her lab history:
Her TSH was 5.33 on 7/30/12, only thyroid test they ran.
5 weeks on 15mg of NP thyroid by Acella:
9/28/2012
TSH : 5.68- (.45-4.5)
Free T4: 1.22 (.9-1.67)
Free T3: 4.6 (2.7-5.2)
TPO:10 (0-18)
11/2/2012
30mg 2 week/45 2 week
TSH:4.99
FT4: 1.53
FT3:4.8
TPO: 13
12/7/2012
60mg NP for 5 wk
TSH: 4.05
FT4:0.96
FT3: 4.3
TPO:6
90mg NP Thyroid
1/18/2013
TSH : .702- (.45-4.5)
Free T4: .97 (.9-1.67)
Free T3: 4.3 (2.7-5.2)
TPO:20 (H) (0-18)
One of these also included the AB but it was negative.
Her current labs are as follows:
It appears removing any calcium for 3 hours and increasing her dose caused her to go a little Hyper so
we are reducing her back down to 90mg of NP thyroid. She is currently taking
Natural Vitality Kid Calm Multi, 1000mg D3 and 900mg Omega Fish oil. THANK YOU!!
4/18/13 labs - these were on 105mg NP thyroid
TSH: .008 L (range .45-4.5)
FT4: 1.54 (.90-1.67)
FT3: 6.3 H (2.7-5.2)
RT3: 13.6 (8.36-22.9)
Magnesium: 1.8 (1.6-2.6)
Celiac Panel- all negative
Candida - negative
WBC 4.9 (4.8-11.4)
RBC 5.17 (3.96-5.30)
Hemoglobin 14 (10.9-14.8)
Hematocrit 41 (32.4-43.3)
MCV 79 (75-89)
MCH 27.1 (24.6-30.7)
RDW 13.5 (12.3-15.8)
PLatelets 379 (150-440)
neutrophils 34 (22-60)
Lymphs 53 (28-66)
Glucose 89 (65-99)
BUN 10 (5-18)
Creatinine .34 (.3-.59)
BUN/Creatinine ratio 29 H (9-25)
Sodium 138 (134-144)
Potassium 3.9 (3.5-5.2)
Chloride 101 (97-108)
Carbon Dioxide 20 (20-32)
Calcium 10.2 (9.1-10.5)
TIBC 300 (250-450)
UIBC 217 (150-375)
Iron Serum 83 (11-150)
Iron Saturation 28 (15-55)
Ferritin 46 (13-150)
Saliva Cortisol test
Morning: 14 (13-24)
Noon: 5 (5-10)
4-5: 5 (3-8)
Midnight: 3 (1-4) I did have to do this one at 8:30 pm because that is when
she could fall asleep, usually anywhere from 8-10 but one second awake next
asleep so i had to do it before she went out it happens so fast.
Any suggestions on these labs would be greatly appreciated. She is having problems in school and mood swings so any help would be great!
Thank you again for your help!!
Hello my daughter is 6 years old and was diagnosed last July as Hypothyroid and
now mild Hashi with a slighlty elevated TPO. I am also Hypo and changed to
NDT in June of last year. It has been a rocky road for both of us getting
Dr.'s/endocrinologist to up our meds.
Her lab history:
Her TSH was 5.33 on 7/30/12, only thyroid test they ran.
5 weeks on 15mg of NP thyroid by Acella:
9/28/2012
TSH : 5.68- (.45-4.5)
Free T4: 1.22 (.9-1.67)
Free T3: 4.6 (2.7-5.2)
TPO:10 (0-18)
11/2/2012
30mg 2 week/45 2 week
TSH:4.99
FT4: 1.53
FT3:4.8
TPO: 13
12/7/2012
60mg NP for 5 wk
TSH: 4.05
FT4:0.96
FT3: 4.3
TPO:6
90mg NP Thyroid
1/18/2013
TSH : .702- (.45-4.5)
Free T4: .97 (.9-1.67)
Free T3: 4.3 (2.7-5.2)
TPO:20 (H) (0-18)
One of these also included the AB but it was negative.
Her current labs are as follows:
It appears removing any calcium for 3 hours and increasing her dose caused her to go a little Hyper so
we are reducing her back down to 90mg of NP thyroid. She is currently taking
Natural Vitality Kid Calm Multi, 1000mg D3 and 900mg Omega Fish oil. THANK YOU!!
4/18/13 labs - these were on 105mg NP thyroid
TSH: .008 L (range .45-4.5)
FT4: 1.54 (.90-1.67)
FT3: 6.3 H (2.7-5.2)
RT3: 13.6 (8.36-22.9)
Magnesium: 1.8 (1.6-2.6)
Celiac Panel- all negative
Candida - negative
WBC 4.9 (4.8-11.4)
RBC 5.17 (3.96-5.30)
Hemoglobin 14 (10.9-14.8)
Hematocrit 41 (32.4-43.3)
MCV 79 (75-89)
MCH 27.1 (24.6-30.7)
RDW 13.5 (12.3-15.8)
PLatelets 379 (150-440)
neutrophils 34 (22-60)
Lymphs 53 (28-66)
Glucose 89 (65-99)
BUN 10 (5-18)
Creatinine .34 (.3-.59)
BUN/Creatinine ratio 29 H (9-25)
Sodium 138 (134-144)
Potassium 3.9 (3.5-5.2)
Chloride 101 (97-108)
Carbon Dioxide 20 (20-32)
Calcium 10.2 (9.1-10.5)
TIBC 300 (250-450)
UIBC 217 (150-375)
Iron Serum 83 (11-150)
Iron Saturation 28 (15-55)
Ferritin 46 (13-150)
Saliva Cortisol test
Morning: 14 (13-24)
Noon: 5 (5-10)
4-5: 5 (3-8)
Midnight: 3 (1-4) I did have to do this one at 8:30 pm because that is when
she could fall asleep, usually anywhere from 8-10 but one second awake next
asleep so i had to do it before she went out it happens so fast.
Any suggestions on these labs would be greatly appreciated. She is having problems in school and mood swings so any help would be great!
Thank you again for your help!!
COMMUNITY LEADER
Magnesium citrate or glycinate are the best for muscle aches/pains, relaxing the body, etc. Like I said, magnesium oxide is little more than a laxative (at least for some people), but if your daughter has a constipation issue, like many of us hypos do, that may not be a bad thing either.
If you split your NP dose and have trouble sleeping, you're probably taking that last dose of the day, too late. I take a T3 med and I take 1/2 about 6:00 am and the other 1/2 around noon. I don't get the "rush" from taking too much in the morning, nor do I crash in the afternoon, because it ran out, and I sleep like a log. You may have to experiment with the timing a little bit.
It may take a while to stabilize levels, and there may be some symptoms that just have ride out, until everything settles.
By all means, if testing shows a sensitivity to gluten, it should be avoided; no argument there. Only reason I mentioned it, is because some people have thought they could "cure" Hashimoto's, or get rid of antibodies, by going gluten free, which is not the case.
Yes, a full glass of milk and a yogurt was probably too much calcium all at once that close to taking the med. Different age groups need different amounts; for instance, my doctor wants me on 1200 mg calcium/day, so at that rate a 600 mg capsule is only 50%. I've always worried more about taking the supplement than I have about food, because the supplement seems more "concentrated", and you're swallowing the whole dose at once; that may not be correct. What has your daughter's doctor recommended for her?
Ferritin is an iron storage indicator. Her low levels indicate that she has very little iron in storage to draw from. It's typically increased by supplementing iron, but check with her doctor first, to be sure of the specific amounts and be aware that iron typically tends to constipate, so make sure there's something to counter that. Too much iron is just as bad/worse than not enough.
If you split your NP dose and have trouble sleeping, you're probably taking that last dose of the day, too late. I take a T3 med and I take 1/2 about 6:00 am and the other 1/2 around noon. I don't get the "rush" from taking too much in the morning, nor do I crash in the afternoon, because it ran out, and I sleep like a log. You may have to experiment with the timing a little bit.
It may take a while to stabilize levels, and there may be some symptoms that just have ride out, until everything settles.
By all means, if testing shows a sensitivity to gluten, it should be avoided; no argument there. Only reason I mentioned it, is because some people have thought they could "cure" Hashimoto's, or get rid of antibodies, by going gluten free, which is not the case.
Yes, a full glass of milk and a yogurt was probably too much calcium all at once that close to taking the med. Different age groups need different amounts; for instance, my doctor wants me on 1200 mg calcium/day, so at that rate a 600 mg capsule is only 50%. I've always worried more about taking the supplement than I have about food, because the supplement seems more "concentrated", and you're swallowing the whole dose at once; that may not be correct. What has your daughter's doctor recommended for her?
Ferritin is an iron storage indicator. Her low levels indicate that she has very little iron in storage to draw from. It's typically increased by supplementing iron, but check with her doctor first, to be sure of the specific amounts and be aware that iron typically tends to constipate, so make sure there's something to counter that. Too much iron is just as bad/worse than not enough.
Ok I will see about splitting up her dose and see if that helps. Her endo just said take it all at once so that is what we both do. I have split my own doses before and did not see any difference except I had trouble falling a sleep so I put it all back to the morning and the problem resolved but maybe in a child it would help..thanks!
What Magnesium should we take? Her multi has the 240mg of Magnesium Citrate in liquid form. Is Citrate in a pill form advised for me? My dr actually is the one who told me to take Oxide and was specific about it...goes to show once again I should question the Dr's always uggh!
On the gluten, while our labcorp blood work came back "in range" I guess is the more accurate term, on the celiac panel. My saliva test showed Borderline and her food intolerance test, which was blood IgG showed high on glidian and wheat so our IH ARNP suggested we try a gluten free/light diet to see if it helped. I will try anything at this point to help us all out.
The calcium, she was drinking a full glass of milk and eating a yogurt which according to the labeling would provide 50% of your daily calcium intake which would be 500mg. A supplement is usually 600mg and 60% so I would assume that much in food would block just like a supplement?
Do you have any idea how to raise ferritin?
Thank you for all your help!!
What Magnesium should we take? Her multi has the 240mg of Magnesium Citrate in liquid form. Is Citrate in a pill form advised for me? My dr actually is the one who told me to take Oxide and was specific about it...goes to show once again I should question the Dr's always uggh!
On the gluten, while our labcorp blood work came back "in range" I guess is the more accurate term, on the celiac panel. My saliva test showed Borderline and her food intolerance test, which was blood IgG showed high on glidian and wheat so our IH ARNP suggested we try a gluten free/light diet to see if it helped. I will try anything at this point to help us all out.
The calcium, she was drinking a full glass of milk and eating a yogurt which according to the labeling would provide 50% of your daily calcium intake which would be 500mg. A supplement is usually 600mg and 60% so I would assume that much in food would block just like a supplement?
Do you have any idea how to raise ferritin?
Thank you for all your help!!
COMMUNITY LEADER
Okay; the first thing we have to ask when we see high labs on someone on med, is if they'd taken it prior to the labs..... your daughter didn't, so the labs are pretty much accurate.
What happens when she take her entire dose at once, is that she gets a "slug" of T3, which gets into the blood stream quickly and probably sends her a bit hyper for a while, but it doesn't last very long, so her levels aren't staying stable throughout the day. I realize that it's not easy to multi-dose when she's in school and you're working, but you should be able to make arrangements with the school nurse to administer a necessary med during school hours. It's generally recommended that 1/2 the dose be taken in the morning, and 1/2 around noon or so; however, it can even be split into 3 doses if need be (one early morning, one mid morning and one early afternoon). It's not recommended to be taken after 3:00 pm because it might cause sleep issues. My son is diabetic and when he was in school, the nurse handled his insulin and made sure he got his shots.
I don't know what others will tell you, but I've never gone for the idea of eliminating milk, yogurt, etc for breakfast because of the calcium. The milk put on the morning cereal doesn't have that much calcium. IMO, it's calcium supplements that you have to watch out for and separate from the med by 4 hours. I eat a very high protein breakfast (on doctor's orders) and have never had an issue with it blocking med, as long as I wait 30-60 minutes after taking my med. Fiber is something that should be looked at, also, because it, too can block absorption of med; limit, I limit, but don't eliminate. Selenium has been shown to help with the conversion of T4 to T3, but with the Acella NP, conversion shouldn't be much of an issue, because the NP has more T3 than the body would normally produce.
It's good that her B12 levels are high; many of find that we have to keep them high in order to feel well. I have Pernicious Anemia so inject weekly to keep my levels up....... I'm jealous of you and your daughter.......lol
Magnesium oxide is little more than a laxative; totally useless for anything else. Magnesium deficiency can cause muscle/joint aches/pains, sleep issues, etc.
If you're giving up gluten to help with Hashi's, don't bother. It won't change anything, unless someone is actually sensitive to it.
What happens when she take her entire dose at once, is that she gets a "slug" of T3, which gets into the blood stream quickly and probably sends her a bit hyper for a while, but it doesn't last very long, so her levels aren't staying stable throughout the day. I realize that it's not easy to multi-dose when she's in school and you're working, but you should be able to make arrangements with the school nurse to administer a necessary med during school hours. It's generally recommended that 1/2 the dose be taken in the morning, and 1/2 around noon or so; however, it can even be split into 3 doses if need be (one early morning, one mid morning and one early afternoon). It's not recommended to be taken after 3:00 pm because it might cause sleep issues. My son is diabetic and when he was in school, the nurse handled his insulin and made sure he got his shots.
I don't know what others will tell you, but I've never gone for the idea of eliminating milk, yogurt, etc for breakfast because of the calcium. The milk put on the morning cereal doesn't have that much calcium. IMO, it's calcium supplements that you have to watch out for and separate from the med by 4 hours. I eat a very high protein breakfast (on doctor's orders) and have never had an issue with it blocking med, as long as I wait 30-60 minutes after taking my med. Fiber is something that should be looked at, also, because it, too can block absorption of med; limit, I limit, but don't eliminate. Selenium has been shown to help with the conversion of T4 to T3, but with the Acella NP, conversion shouldn't be much of an issue, because the NP has more T3 than the body would normally produce.
It's good that her B12 levels are high; many of find that we have to keep them high in order to feel well. I have Pernicious Anemia so inject weekly to keep my levels up....... I'm jealous of you and your daughter.......lol
Magnesium oxide is little more than a laxative; totally useless for anything else. Magnesium deficiency can cause muscle/joint aches/pains, sleep issues, etc.
If you're giving up gluten to help with Hashi's, don't bother. It won't change anything, unless someone is actually sensitive to it.
Barb125,
She had not taken her meds for 24 hours when the test were done.
She takes the whole dose first thing in the morning around 7AM. Her going to school and me working does not making multi dosing practical and she takes all her vitamins and supplements when she gets home from school around 5 so night dosing would be difficult plus not sure if it would cause sleep issues.
I am also Hashi and on NP so I know the drill with meds and supplements, I however only recently learned to keep Calcium at least 3 hours away as well. Makes breakfast a little more challenging, no milk or yogurt which she used to drink ever day 30 minutes after meds.
The Kid Calm multi she is on has 280mg Magnesium Citrate so I guess I need to add some magnesium oxide, which I also take for low magnesium.
Do you know what causes low ferritin?
Her B-12 stays high also like mine, we both on supplements maintain 1190's B-12 for some reason.
On her Cortisol I have read about using the Biomax adrenal Cortex extract drops to help but I want to wait and see how she does once we reduce her medication. I have started using Celtic sea salt to salt our food and that is supposed to help adrenal support as well.
What happens is after we got her to 90mg she did well for a short time then dropped off again with Hypo symptoms ...that is when I took her to an Integrative Healthcare ARNP who is running all these test. Her endo said not her thyroid and I had to call BS on that since her T4 was still so low and he refused to raise her. We pay cash for the visits to the IH ARNP and insurance covers most of the blood work. We paid for the saliva Cortisol test but I found out later some do not trust Diagnos-Tech so I don't know how valid those are in the end.
I think what happened is food protein does not interfere with T3 but it does the T4 and the milk and yogurt were maybe blocking? Seems she is converting much better now since we removed those. We are also working on getting her on a gluten light diet, our whole family is Hashi but have tested negative for celiac so we really need to all do it for the Hashi.
What happened this time is when we increased her dose to 105mg she did GREAT for 3 weeks then tanked again, I assume this is when she went Hyper. The problems she has in school and general are. She has headaches, gets tired, mood swings. She was having a great deal of trouble in reading but is doing much better now that her levels are higher but a LOT of trouble writing sentences, her handwriting is terrible. She has trouble focusing and gets distracted, has to be asked several times to do things. The 3 weeks after we increased and before she tanked she did awesome in all areas! So I REALLY believe it is just finding the right dose and not mess it up with food.
None of us have been checked for nodules.
FAITH63 - I answered your question above. Yes it cost about $100 a visit to see the IH ARNP in our area but she will run anything I ask for and our insurance covers most any test she orders except food intolerance and saliva and she will prescribe her NP and not freak when her TSH is Low, she is aware this happens with T3 meds and is no longer reliable once medicated.
Hence why I am the boards, I have to pay $100 every time I have an appointment to go over labs etc with her so I like to try to research as much as I can before I schedule the appointment to be prepared on where to go next and what further testing to look at. So I greatly appreciate any input. It is very tough dealing with this issue myself much less trying to figure out what is going on inside a 6 year old. At least I know how I feel but she has a hard time expressing... then throw a little drama queen in the mix and it is very hard to tell what is real and what has been exaggerated because she knows she has a health issue.
Then comes in the hashi swings. Her labs when we were doing them regular to get her dose up were going steady but now I don't know how often to test her, it is stressful on her to have blood work but the only way I can see what is going on inside.
Thank you again for any help!!
She had not taken her meds for 24 hours when the test were done.
She takes the whole dose first thing in the morning around 7AM. Her going to school and me working does not making multi dosing practical and she takes all her vitamins and supplements when she gets home from school around 5 so night dosing would be difficult plus not sure if it would cause sleep issues.
I am also Hashi and on NP so I know the drill with meds and supplements, I however only recently learned to keep Calcium at least 3 hours away as well. Makes breakfast a little more challenging, no milk or yogurt which she used to drink ever day 30 minutes after meds.
The Kid Calm multi she is on has 280mg Magnesium Citrate so I guess I need to add some magnesium oxide, which I also take for low magnesium.
Do you know what causes low ferritin?
Her B-12 stays high also like mine, we both on supplements maintain 1190's B-12 for some reason.
On her Cortisol I have read about using the Biomax adrenal Cortex extract drops to help but I want to wait and see how she does once we reduce her medication. I have started using Celtic sea salt to salt our food and that is supposed to help adrenal support as well.
What happens is after we got her to 90mg she did well for a short time then dropped off again with Hypo symptoms ...that is when I took her to an Integrative Healthcare ARNP who is running all these test. Her endo said not her thyroid and I had to call BS on that since her T4 was still so low and he refused to raise her. We pay cash for the visits to the IH ARNP and insurance covers most of the blood work. We paid for the saliva Cortisol test but I found out later some do not trust Diagnos-Tech so I don't know how valid those are in the end.
I think what happened is food protein does not interfere with T3 but it does the T4 and the milk and yogurt were maybe blocking? Seems she is converting much better now since we removed those. We are also working on getting her on a gluten light diet, our whole family is Hashi but have tested negative for celiac so we really need to all do it for the Hashi.
What happened this time is when we increased her dose to 105mg she did GREAT for 3 weeks then tanked again, I assume this is when she went Hyper. The problems she has in school and general are. She has headaches, gets tired, mood swings. She was having a great deal of trouble in reading but is doing much better now that her levels are higher but a LOT of trouble writing sentences, her handwriting is terrible. She has trouble focusing and gets distracted, has to be asked several times to do things. The 3 weeks after we increased and before she tanked she did awesome in all areas! So I REALLY believe it is just finding the right dose and not mess it up with food.
None of us have been checked for nodules.
FAITH63 - I answered your question above. Yes it cost about $100 a visit to see the IH ARNP in our area but she will run anything I ask for and our insurance covers most any test she orders except food intolerance and saliva and she will prescribe her NP and not freak when her TSH is Low, she is aware this happens with T3 meds and is no longer reliable once medicated.
Hence why I am the boards, I have to pay $100 every time I have an appointment to go over labs etc with her so I like to try to research as much as I can before I schedule the appointment to be prepared on where to go next and what further testing to look at. So I greatly appreciate any input. It is very tough dealing with this issue myself much less trying to figure out what is going on inside a 6 year old. At least I know how I feel but she has a hard time expressing... then throw a little drama queen in the mix and it is very hard to tell what is real and what has been exaggerated because she knows she has a health issue.
Then comes in the hashi swings. Her labs when we were doing them regular to get her dose up were going steady but now I don't know how often to test her, it is stressful on her to have blood work but the only way I can see what is going on inside.
Thank you again for any help!!
Could you please tell me how/where you were able to find a doctor to order such thorough testing? Where all these tests ordered by an Endo? I have not been able to get proper treatment/testing done for myself or my children. The only way would be to go to a Alternative med doc who won't take insurance. I'm in Ohio. It is a rough road and heart breaking having to watch your children suffer.
Thank you so much
Thank you so much
COMMUNITY LEADER
Was your daughter having hyper symptoms when her FT3 was over the range? It seems good that you reduced dosage.
First question that comes to mind, is whether or not she had taken her medication prior to the blood draw on 4/18? That would produce higher than normal results.
Is she taking her entire dosage at one time, or are you splitting it throughout the day? Most people on med with a T3 component find that splitting the dosage into multiples throughout the day keeps FT3 levels more stable.
Vitamins/minerals should be separated from thyroid medications by about 4 hours.
Her magnesium is very low in the ranges; you might talk to her doctor about supplementing. Ferritin is on the low side; again discuss this with her doctor. You should ask for vitamin B12 test. Morning and noon cortisol levels also seem to be on the low side.
What problems is she having in school and what symptoms does she have? The mood swings could be from being hyper. While the T3 med is out of the system pretty quickly. If she converts well, it may take a while for the T4 to drop down enough to get her past the hyper phase.
Also, with Hashimoto's, it's not unusual for people to swing from hyper to hypo on their own. Her thyroid may have begun producing more hormones. Does she have nodules on her thyroid? If so, it's possible that they can produce hormone independently of the thyroid.
First question that comes to mind, is whether or not she had taken her medication prior to the blood draw on 4/18? That would produce higher than normal results.
Is she taking her entire dosage at one time, or are you splitting it throughout the day? Most people on med with a T3 component find that splitting the dosage into multiples throughout the day keeps FT3 levels more stable.
Vitamins/minerals should be separated from thyroid medications by about 4 hours.
Her magnesium is very low in the ranges; you might talk to her doctor about supplementing. Ferritin is on the low side; again discuss this with her doctor. You should ask for vitamin B12 test. Morning and noon cortisol levels also seem to be on the low side.
What problems is she having in school and what symptoms does she have? The mood swings could be from being hyper. While the T3 med is out of the system pretty quickly. If she converts well, it may take a while for the T4 to drop down enough to get her past the hyper phase.
Also, with Hashimoto's, it's not unusual for people to swing from hyper to hypo on their own. Her thyroid may have begun producing more hormones. Does she have nodules on her thyroid? If so, it's possible that they can produce hormone independently of the thyroid.
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