7 keto dhea and hashimotos

[ceekay144]

I have hashimotos.  I am on 120 mg of Armour and 50,000 IU Vitamin D.  

I was feeling really bad at the end of 2012.  So in January I went in to ask to raise my Armour.  So he tested me, these being the results:

TSH 0.54
Free T4 - 0.8
Free T3 - 0.14
Cortisol (blood test only) 6.1
DHEA Sulfate 68

This test was marked "Abnormal, call patient"....oh they did, they told me I was NORMAL.  No action taken.

So I suffered all of this year with exhaustion so bad I couldn't stay out of bed.  I went back a couple of weeks ago in April.  He didn't do any blood test, just looked at this January test and told me to take 20 mg of 7 Keto DHEA a day for 3 months and come back for a blood test.  Oh ps, he said I would lose weight.  (I dunno, I have maybe 5 to 10 pounds excess around my stomach.)  He said I wasn't making enough T3 so I was hypo.  (NO SH**** I'm hypo, been saying it for months.)

So, the first few days, I had massive energy and NO naps! I was excited.  Day 4 I crashed out.  And every day since, I crash out around 1 or 2 pm.  I thought well, I'll up it to 50....and now 75.  Not really helping....The only thing it's doing is I feel bloated and my rash on my shin on my leg is back (it gets bad when the hashis is bad, i think it's pretibia myxedema but nobody will say it out loud...they just look at it quickly and then focus on something else = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretibial_myxedema).

I was thinking to throw this crap in the trash.  It doesn't feel helpful.  I'm thinking that he should follow the same route.  Maybe I need another doctor?

[shellynwm]

I know this answer is late, however based on the labs posted, your FT3 was very low prior to starting the 7-Keto DHEA. You probably felt better at first due to the med increasing conversion of  what small amounts of FT4 you had to FT3.(The inactive FT4 to active FT3) However, your body was not producing enough FT4 to continue making FT3 and you crashed. This med will probably help someone with high levels of FT4 and low FT3, but will make someone with low levels of both crash. - Hope this helps someone.

[ticelles]

I did not read through all the comments, so I do not know if anyone has addressed this:

I noticed you did not have your Reverse T3 results.  This is a very important test and is very telling as to where the problem could be hiding.

I had the same symptoms as you and when my tests came back my TSH was low (.28), but my Reverse T3 was very high.  This means that my body is not able to convert Amour or Synthroid (T4) properly, so increasing my Amour would simply contribute and worse the problem.  Amour was removed and am only taking a T3 (from a compounding pharmacy).  

I feel better than ever.

[Sunnysugar1999]

Isn's DHEA also for low Adrenals?  Or all hormone levels?  
7 Keto has no Estrogen effects correct, buy raised Thyroid levels from what I have read.  
Information is so valueable here.
Thank you

[Red_Star]

Not sure about the weather in regards to pretibal myxedema but can't hurt to have the antibody test done if the rash shows up.  I did request this antibody test - 4 times!  Little did i know that the labs here in Australia go by TSH receptor antibodies (TRAb). I was requesting TSI antibodies.  But they didn't give me the results for the TRAb test my endo requested it either! What's up with this test!?  

I call this test the thyroid mystery prize test.  I was given thyroglobulin serum (was high due to hyperthyroidism during hashitoxicosis), TSH (pfft like i need that again), and TPOAb and TgAb (endo didn't even notice the wrong test was done lol).

I was so over this test but my last ditch effort, even knowing the test would be normal as it was months after my rash had disappeared, used a one day to expire (requested a year before) misspelled test the doc wrote "thyroid stimulating immunoglobins" and waited for my mystery prize.  TRAb test. Huh. It was done.  Hallelujah~! :)

[Angell10]

My Doctor just told me My blood test said i have high TSH, he thinks it is some hormonal supplement I am taking, I am getting mixed signals when searching is that Hyper or Hypo? I also have menier's disease,  so if I have to much salt I have brain fog and get dizzy and all I want to do is lay down.. but now I am starting to wonder if the thyroid is to blame...I do take 7 Keto dhea, 20 mg, I also take 5 htp in small doses..

[courtney48]

Red_Star,
I'm glad you've commented in this thread about your shin rash.  I've had this off and on and usually in winter for the past eight years, no symptoms of thyroid disease and only dx'd hypo about six months ago.  The first time I noticed it, I did go to a rheumy for some lab work which showed a positive ANA, but not much else, so I've always assumed it was autoimmune something or other.  Mine typically clears when weather is warmer, by chance.  Also, I have hypo, not hyper.  I am definitely going to pay attention in the future if this occurs and definitely get labs during the time I have the rash.  Did you have a test for the TRAb?  Thanks, you always offer such good info.

[Ericamegan]

Are you taking 75mg DHEA? That's WAY too much.  I have seen good results with taking lower doses. For awhile I was on 25mg and started having bad side effects. I now have weaned to 5mg each morning and feel great. With DHEA, less is more!

Also, what are the reference ranges for your FT3 & FT4?

[Red_Star]

I might of given the impression that my pretibal myxedema was itchy most of the time but it was just random bouts of itchiness. Thyroid stimulating immunoglobulins (TSI), also called TSH receptor antibodies (TRAb), are responsible for Graves Disease, Hashitoxicosis, thyroid eye disease, and pretibial myxedema.

I also have major fluid retention myself as one of my many symptoms.  My endo doesn't understand my cellular issues but at least he prescribed armour without any problems, Low-dose naltrexone (LDN)  - didn't know about this until he mentioned it but researched it and next visit said yes to trying this out, and finally reverse T3. I've never heard of the selenium iodine ratio.

[ceekay144]

I have finally resolved myself to hunt for another doctor.  As to the doctors' reactions to the myxedema, I had one lady that scolded me for reading about my own condition on the internet .... but what else can one do but try to educate one's self. Needless to say, I fired her after that visit! This second guy also speaks down to me, and chastises me for I guess what he thinks are my wild goose chases for information, asking about tests and so on.  He wouldn't even discuss selenium/iodine ratios with me.  I've only stuck with him because he prescribes Armour.  

I'm going to arm myself with information and head out there once again.... Thanks for your responses.  Most appreciated.

[Red_Star]

I had pretibal myxedema which showed up with a two month hashitoxicosis flare up.  My pretibal myxedema was about 10cm in height by 5cm wide on the pretibal area and it was reddish pink raised orange peel texture that was really itchy on and off. This symptom lasted for around a year.

I had the same reaction as you. The doctor looked at my shin and then started talking about something else. Another doctor actually prodded my shin perplexed and mentioned something vague like possible winter rash. The last doctor didn't even bother to look at it when i mentioned it. Now i found this from a comment board about pretibal myxedema (PM) so this explains a lot...

"As far as research into PM, there is painfully little. The condition occurs in 16/100,000 women, and 3/100,000 men, so it's so rare that it really isn't cost effective for drug companies to invest their time or energies. If you reach the elephantaisis stage, the numbers are 16/1,000,000 and 3/1,000,000 respectively.

I'm very well versed on this condition, as I have PM with elephantaisis, and Thyroid Eye Disease. My condition was mis-diagnosed for 30 ( yes, *THIRTY* years), and when it was finally diagnosed, I was well beyond the point of any medical improvement."

Lucky we have google images eh? :)  Not sure of your lab ranges but your numbers don't look that healthy.

[kumquatmay]

In short - if it were me, I would seek a new doctor, one that does an expanded profile and does not just look at T4/TFree levels. but includes thyroid function profile w\TPO Ab level. At the same time check your hormone levels, and get an Adrenal Stress Index. Adrenal function has a lot to do with fatigue, just as the thyroid. A Stress Index is more than just a point-in-time cortisol level taken from one blood draw. The 'Index' is done by taking either saliva samples or blood draws thru-out a 24 to 48hr period. I opt for the saliva sample kit, which can be taken home and mailed to a Lab. It is cheaper and less intrusive.  If your energy level is crashing, the index will help you understand this by graphing how your body is producing cortisol and adrenaline. Altho T4 levels may appear in the normal range, there can be a suppression due to hormone imbalances - they need to be analyzed together. If your 'function' levels are found to be outside the normal ranges, it helps to understand if you may be experiencing adrenal or thyroid exhaustion (not producing enough) and if a supplement or med can be prescribed. DHEA is a hormone precursor, produced by the adrenals and is taken to support the entire glandular system and not one particular gland. Their are HC practitioners who can do a DHEA level assessment. Without these indexes and assessments, it is difficult to discover what it is one needs.