Can you be hypo and lose weight w/out trying?

[thyquestions]

My recent thyroid tests returned:  
TSH 3.19
Free T3 261
Free T4 0.9

From what I've read (i.e. Mary Shomon's site for one), these results seem borderline. I have other issues as well like, very low ferritin, white blood cell count, and low Vit D.  (None of which are rising after 5 months of metagenics supplements)

My doctor said I just have hypothyroid issues, but over the past 6 months I have lost over 30 lbs.  I was not trying to lose weight.  I am 5'8" and was a size 4-6 and now I am smaller than a size 0 (zero).  I don't have much appetite, but I still force myself to eat a LOT of food during the day. Granted, it's very healthy balanced food, but still, it's a lot.  More food than before, when my weight was stable at 135-140.

I am very confused.  Can I be hypothyroid and NOT be able to GAIN weight??   My doctor said everyone is different, but this is one area I have not seen any dispute about.

[Barb135]

This is a very old post and we haven't seen thyquestions on the forum in nearly 2yr, so it's unlikely you will get a response.

You would get a lot more attention if you'd start a new thread, by hitting the orange "Post a Question" button at the top of the page and give us your own information.  Please include the results of your latest thyroid test results, along with reference ranges, since these vary from lab to lab, so must come from your own report.  

Even if your thyroid levels are in the "normal" range, they could be too high for you, which means you could be over medicated.

[darkclouds]

Hi, yes I went from137 and at 102  since Feb.2011 Went to a Engo. and my level is 4.65 said I was hypo, put me on Almour 30mg.  . My Endo. is trying to find out why the weight lose, Stress can cuz your thyroid to go haywire, and mine did, been under tremendous stress, your thyroid goes into survial mode, sometimes it stays their, I am a lost for words and so is my Doc. on this weight lose, I only been on medicane for almost 3 weeks, I eat, make my self have no appite, I am stuck at 102-103 since, July 2011, Have you gained any weight? or have they given you any med, that helps? I was given a med. to incress my appite, got it filed but debating if I should take it.

[thyquestions]

Yes!  I definitely wish you the best, with both your acupuncture and new doctor!  

I also have two new doctors lined up for 2nd opinions over the next two weeks, so I am very hopeful too.

Hang in there!!  

[krpdiver]

Hello!  I am seeing an acupuncturist this Thursday and am very hopeful.  I had several weeks of therapy Spring 2009 and many hypo symptoms were getting better, I felt better than I can remember!  But insurance wasn't covering the $90 per treatment so had to stop...new insurance in 2010 and only $15 per visit so going back for it...

Also going to highly reco endo doc next week to optimize t4/t3...TSH is good and has been for a while but my symptoms are still very aggravated so wish me luck!  

I hope you get your weight loss under control...BTW, I'm working the opposite direction!  Take care

[Barb135]

I, personally, have never seen an acupuncturist; however I understand that some people get symptom relief from it, but again, no CURE.

I totally understand what you are trying to do and I find it admirable; however, MY point is this:  I'm a lot older than you are and I've "been there, done that"; now here I am taking the replacement hormones on a daily basis just to be able to get out of bed in the morning......you can do whatever you want to and some things might help relieve the symptoms, but nothing is going to CURE your thyroid issues - once you have them, you always have them and I find it very hard to believe that you won't, someday, be totally dependent on replacement hormones, just like I am...

Don't get me wrong -- I do the vitamin/minerals, fresh foods, exercise -- anything I can to make it better but when things reach a certain point, our options become very limited - mine became limited to replacement thyroid hormones......

I didn't like the idea of having thyroid problems either, but my symptoms were SO bad that I was desperate.  I was already on a daily blood pressure med (not to mention all the vitamins/minerals I was taking every day), so didn't think one more pill would be that bad; well I ended up with 2 more pills, but still not that bad. I'm doing very well taking those 2 little pills every day -- I can keep up with or even surpass some that are much younger than me -- nothing horrible about that.
(hugs)
B

[thyquestions]

Ah - yes gotcha.. diet can help, but probably "curing" is much more difficult in some cases than others.  Especially with all the toxins in our environment now.  Heck, the mass quantities we deal with between bisphenol-a and fluoride alone could be "killing" our thyroids.  And then lets not forget all the xrays we've taken through our lives.. the full set that my dentist "had" to have last year could have zapped nearly the last few working cells in there.   Who's to know?

Yes, our hormones for sure are constantly in flux, and as we get older many paths just start to fizzle altogether.  I'm not saying I won't ever try the bioidentical hormone route either, I'm just stubborn :)   Because first, I would just like to know I actually have a consistent issue, and I am not just in the middle of some wacky rollercoaster ride here...

So even after consuming even more calories/quantities this week, just to observe (including some wild-caught salmon)  I lost 3 more lbs this week.  I do eat a lot of avocado, coconut oil, olive/sesame oil, nuts, ghee, (goats milk) yogurt/kefir, and eggs...  plus plenty of carbs and veggies..  And do the green smoothie thing for energy, enzymes, minerals, etc.   I'm really wondering now about the previous comment on leaking muscle mass.  I see my nutritionist tomorrow, and so I will discuss her take on this, plus I'm lining up a couple new doctors.  One of which is famous w/ brain injuries, thryoid, and adrenal issues.. so we'll see.  

Just curious, have you ever seen someone like an acupuncturist for your thyroid?  I've seen various therapist from the head injury, but wonder if I have more stuck "energy" causing some of these latest symptoms..  Anyway, just a thought.

Thank you !!!   My very best to you too   :)

[Barb135]

I didn't say that "diet won't help" --- I said "diet won't CURE" a thyroid issue.  Of course, diet helps because you have to have the nutrition to live as well.  

Iodine and selenium are very helpful, but again, they won't CURE the thyroid problem.  I take selenium every day because it helps keep the antibodies "under control" a bit so I don't have the choking, full feeling in my throat.  Some people do very well on iodine, for others it's a waste of time or even detrimental.  I've also read that those with Hashimoto's should not take it; however, again, some do and do well.  We all react differently.

I've heard that magnesium helps with constipation and that's one of the symptoms of hypo that I have struggled with -- the only thing that helped with that issue was getting my thyroid levels in line.  

I did not get my T3/T4 med "perfect right away" -- it's taken me almost 2 years of lab work every 6 weeks and much "tweaking" and/or bouncing back to hypo, to get there and I'm not the least bit sorry I've done it.  When you start feeling really bad, you will be willing to do whatever it takes to feel better.  I still have  my thyroid too -- it's just unfortunate that it no longer works........

BTW -- yes, you ARE somebody special -- we all are!!  And yes, our hormones CAN fluctuate.  Mine fluctuated for years and I believe that I went from hyper to hypo many times over  a period of about 20 years, then my thyroid just quit and I ended up totally hypo.  My thyroid is now pretty much "dead" and I am totally dependent on my med(s) - without them, my heart rate drops alarmingly low, I gain tons of weight, my body temp is way off, along with a lot of other unpleasant issues.  Look at hormones such as adrenaline, cortisol, etc -- how they fluctuate during times of stress; or our "female" hormones fluctuating as we go through our monthly cycles (think PMS), then peri-menopause and ultimately menopause.  

I wish you all the luck in the world.  

[thyquestions]

Well, I respectfully disagree that the *only* way to treat thyroid issues are with medication and that diet won't help.  As a simple example, if you don't have any iodine or selenium in your diet, your thyroid will struggle and tests could/would reveal imbalances.

Personally I believe, with no disrespect, that doctors and medical knowledge/dissemination is in it's infancy with respect to the endocrine system.  Sure, we seem to know a bit about what translates into what, but clearly this epidemic proves we are babes in the woods.  

Case in point. I am nobody special, and during the past 5 months I tested positive for Hashimoto's ABs, and yet 2 months later the AB values were back in range.  And then I had further hormone testing come back positive for an adrenal tumor, and follow-up testing showed those values all normal as well. So it just seems pretty clear to me our hormonal systems can fluctuate and/or self-correct. That, or our lab testing systems are completely unreliable.  

I think it's awesome if some people can get their T3/T4 med ratio perfect right away and never have to tweak them, but it sounds to me like they are the exceptions, not the norm.  Personally, I simply can't envision myself, in any scenario, running to a doctor every 6 months (or whatever) to get retested to tweak medicines a microgram here or there so I can feel a little bit better (or not). Maybe someday my symptoms will get horribly awful and I'll end up doing that, but gratefully I haven't reached that point. While my symptoms aren't great, I am also thankful I still HAVE my thyroid, so I'd like to just give it a chance to kick in, if it will.  What can I say?  I'm an optimist.

I'm aware of B12 issues, and mine has been tested and is fine. Magnesium will also assist with constipation issues, another mentioned hypo symptom, which I haven't had but I'm sure it could prove useful to others.

I'm very glad you found the right solution that works for you!!  That's exactly what I wish for everyone.

[Barb135]

Hypothyroidism is almost always a life long issue and basically, the only way to treat it is to replace the hormones with med.  Diet will not cure it and most likely you will only get worse as time goes on.  I'm not sure where your idea of "temporary relief in the medicine" comes from -- your body HAS to have thyroid hormones to function, since the thyroid controls your metabolism, heart rate, body temp, etc and without the meds, most of us would not be functioning well at all.  Granted some of us have a problem getting leveled out, but that's usually because our doctors won't order the proper tests and/or they adjust meds based only on the TSH test; sometimes a person doesn't do well on one med, but does just fine on another -- that was a problem I had.  My pcp started me out on synthroid and I didn't do well, but when my endo said it was okay to switch to generic levo, I did much better.  

Since you are a vegetarian, I'd strongly suggest that you get your vitamin B12 tested.  The best sources of b12 are meat, dairy, eggs, etc. I am not a vegetarian, but I do have b12 deficiency (pernicious anemia). I self inject b12 every 2 weeks to keep my levels up, but I still don't go anywhere near the top of the range, which I think is where I need to be, but my doctor won't let me do a shot weekly, because according to the lab report, my levels are "normal".  

You are correct that taking magnesium can help you sleep; it can also help ease muscle and joint aches/pains.  A daily dose of selenium can also help with neck/throat issues if you have any.

[alwaystired527]

My original doctor wanted me to start on synthyroid right after I had my scan...so thats what I did, I didn't really try anything else before that. I felt so bad and had no idea about thyroid disease that I just wanted to feel better so I started that. There was nothing extremely out of the ordinary that I can think of that may have caused the nodules, I was a little stressed but nothing out of the ordinary but I also stoped BC pills so not sure if that caused it to flare up. Also, I know of no one in my family with thyroid disease so we aren't sure where it came from. I was living by a plant that emitted methane gases also at the time, which I think I read somewhere could cause problems like that.
During my ultrasound recently my doctor says my thyroid looks like one that has not been working for awhile, and the nodules in my case could actually be fresh thyroid tissue trying to rebuild. She says that the synthyroid helps these nodules to decrease. Because I'm hypo my thyroid is working overtime to produce the hormones and it isnt so its like a muscle when you work out...it just keeps getting bigger because its overworking.
Hope that helps...

[thyquestions]

Thank you for sharing your similarities.. while it is nice to hear I may not be alone, I am so very sorry you have gone though all this. Yet that is great news your nodules are receding! I hope they continue, and you can find some peace in this.  btw, I was having trouble sleeping as well, and tried melatonin, l-theanine, L-5-HTP, all natural remedies, and the VERY BEST thing I've found for sleep is taking a 400 mg Magnesium Citrate caplet right before bed. It works Amazing!!  And it will also help with anxiety and headaches as well (I don't have those, but others say it is a charm). I highly recommend....  I have been told it is perfectly safe to take up to around 1000 mg/day, but I just take the 400mg.  

I've actually had sleep issues since my head injury a few years ago, and I couldn't be more grateful to have found this simple remedy.  I can even remember my dreams again.  

Anyway, I lost over 15 lbs in the first 3 weeks, and then the rest of the weight was over the next month or so. I don't have nodules or a sore/swollen neck or anything, so I'm not sure about the hyper/hypo combination.  I am hoping I can find a non-medicated way to resolve this, because while I see that some people find temporary relief in the medication, I don't see it as a long-term solution at all. Crossing-fingers anyway.

If I may ask (if you see this..), once you knew more of the story, did you try changing anything before going on medication?  Were you given any ideas about what could have caused the nodules?  Or do you have any gut feel about it?   Do you know what might be causing them to recede?  (does the synthroid help with that?)

Thank you again, and all my very best to you...

[alwaystired527]

I have had a very similar experience with my thyroid issues. Mine really started becoming noticeable in May 2009. I was having unexplainable bouts of dizziness coupled with nausea, along with constant fatigue. And I felt like the front of my throat was swollen. After fighting with my gen med doctor that I was not pregnant and pretty much ordering my own blood test, they determined that I had hypothyroidism and the levels were extremely out of normal.After doing an ultrasound they discovered I had 3 nodules located on the front of my thyroid. I also had unexplained weightloss, I am fairly fit but the first month I was diagnosed with hypo I had lost 10 lbs., people could definitely notice the drastic change...I also went from a 3/4 to a 0/1 in sizes. Once beginning synthroid and trying to get my levels stabilized my weight has stayed dropped but it seems to have leveled off. I have also has reynauds since a child with my fingers going purple to white and I am also a vegetarian. While fighting to get my synthyroid levels correct my symptoms have become: fatigue, trouble sleeping from time to time (that has gotten better), occasional anxiety, the definite slowness factor, sometimes heart issues, feeling like its going fast or slow, and the concentration/brain fog factor. When I started doing research on symptoms I found that sometimes when nodules are present you can actually get symptoms of hypo and hyper all together. Which even though I am technically hypo, I am getting the hyper symptoms of weight loss and anxiety. While weight loss is more rare on our side, it does happen. Just like my friend that is hyper was having trouble with weight gain. It goes both ways. The symptoms are definitely different with everyone.
I had an ultrasound done again the first week of December and it showed my nodules are getting smaller (thank goodness). Now that I switched to a great doctor who is an endocrinologist we are trying to get my meds worked out. I'm on synthyroid...75mcg puts me just barely into the low side of the normal range, and the 88mcg puts me too high. We just did a blood test again to look at the 75mcg. I can tell I am too low, I'm hoping we can find someway to get me into the happy middle, because I sure did feel way better then!
Good luck with your endervors! But know you aren't alone in your symptoms!

[thyquestions]

Hi Barb!  

I'm on the east coast now, and am SO cold too!!!  I'm just wondering if I need to relocate to Costa Rica to retain my sanity.  I've had Reynaud's since I was a kid, and then spent the last 20 years in the southwest (San Diego and Arizona mostly) and completely forgot about being bone cold and my fingers going numb and pure white.  Ugh.  

Yes, based on my first tests in early September 09, she thought for sure I had Hashimoto's. Then late Oct my AB test values came back in range and indicated to her I didn't.  I don't think she tested for Graves, at least, I don't see a TSI test value on any of my lab reports.  I had Thyroid Peroxidase and Thyroglobulin AB tests, which were both in range on second round tests.  We never discussed hyper, except in the context of Hashimoto's (and how that could explain the weight loss).  

I also wonder if I'm anemic and/or protein deficient. I have been vegetarian for about 4 years, but eat very well (am seeing a good nutritionist now) and thought I was fine with protein substitutes, but still..  Anyway, it's just the start of my journey, and I'm sure, like nearly everyone here, I will have many bumps in the road.....

[Barb135]

Okay, you two -- I've lost most of my eyebrows, grow almost no leg hair any more (saves on razors..lol) and can only thank God that the hair on my head is thick enough for 3 people because it will soon be < enough for one.........my skin originally (at dx) felt like an alligator, then when I got on med, it got really nice and soft, then Mother Nature decided to grace us with the longest, coldest cold snap that our area has had in something like 20 yrs and since I work outside, I now feel like I have alligator skin again -- just hoping my "snout" doesn't grow long and my mood to turn "snarly" to match it.   LOL

We won't even talk about the weight issue -- oh, well, if you insist.............lol  It is possible to be hypo and lose weight (*I* should be so lucky) AND it's also possible for symptoms of hypo and hyper to mimic each other......brain fog, fatigue, etc....

thyquestions -- you said your doctor thought you had Hashi's but the tests didn't confirm.  Did s/he test for Graves?  I know TPOab can be used to dx either Hashi's or Graves, but I think the best test for Graves if TSI (thyroid stimulating immunoglobulin), but since I don't have Graves, I will hope that someone who does will correct me if necessary.

[thyquestions]

I know.. it IS weird. The thyroid has it's tendrils in so much. I've had some hair loss, but my eyebrows are still the same/full, and I didn't realize about eye lashes.  Mine haven't changed either.  I don't have dry skin either (not even when I lived in Tucson!).  

I actually had a severe brain injury almost 5 years ago, from a biking injury, so it's hard to know if my current cognitive fatigue/issues are remnants of that, or if they are simply thyroid related now.

[peggy64]

I know what you mean. I was just going on at you. I have not had any hair loss issues, Praise God, even my eye lashes. This disease is strange in how it affects each one of us.

[thyquestions]

Oh gosh, I have other issues for sure!!  Seriously.  No need to be jealous. :)  

Everyone else in my family struggles BIGtime with their weight, so I have been the "ugly duckling" my whole life.  I don't know why my body is the way it is, and if I could bottle the formula and help them/others with their frustration, I would.  I truly empathize.  

[peggy64]

sounds like bragging to me!   just rub it in!! (ha ha)

I am so jealous! I can't lose weight no matter how much water I drink, or cut out all processed foods, sugar, carbs.

[thyquestions]

Thanks again for your thoughts ...  interesting about the muscle mass.  I don't see how that's the case with me though? I have a thin yoga type body, not bulky at all, and I still have similar definition and tone. I'm thin, but not a walking skeleton. I will definitely ask my doctor about it though.  What you describe actually sounds like a cushings thing (my dog has that).

Thanks for sharing your knowledge about the T3/T4 differences too.  I also wondered  why she first prescribed Synthroid, and then a few months later after the other testing she switched and prescribed the T3.  I didn't think to ask at the time of my visit, and she sort of dismissed me at the end of the appt .. like, she said to only call her if I decide to take the T3 so we can reschedule tests a few months later.

As far as "only T3", I am simply not informed enough to understand how T3/T4 adjustments would affect me. I have many books about this, but without playing guinea pig, it seems you don't really know what will happen. My doctor just said she has treated others with the compounded T3 at similar tested levels, and they found some relief.  Actually, she doesn't seem to know what best to try since she's heard of no others who have lost this much weight while hypo, which is why I'm seeking the 2nd opinion.

However, I do believe "doing nothing" is relative.  I am making many necessary changes with diet, other healing modalities, etc. - I'm just not taking any thyroid hormones at the moment.  I think our bodies are much more intelligent than our "brains" are.  It is brilliant and ever changing, and I believe, unless something is verrrrry disrupted, it is in a constant state of trying to heal itself.  And I want to give it a fair shot first.

Anyway, I was mainly curious if anyone else, of if anyone knows of someone, who is hypo and lost a lot weight without taking thyroid meds or trying, and can't gain.  I just want to be barking up the right tree...  to try and treat the source of the problems and not the side-effects.  Hope this makes sense..

[LazyMoose]

I'll say a bit about weight loss........When people lose weight from hypo thyroid, (rare) its usually lost muscle mass. Since untreated thyroid issues hinder muscle recovery and proper function. This may be a little more common with people that were more athletic than the average person.

I sense the T3 only med is not an issue to you, it is , however, very odd a doctor treat you only with this if you don't have Reverse T3. If the doctor never said why, I'd ask.

So you maybe have some hypo symptoms. Different people react to different levels of free's. But the fact for everyone that's feeling symptoms is they need to change something. You get nothing by doing nothing. Your free's for most people are low (both T3 and T4).  T3 only med will not raise your T4 levels. Raising these should bump the tsh down a little.

[thyquestions]

oops, typo, FT3 was 261 as originally posted...

[thyquestions]

Thanks for the thoughts LazyMoose ...

Quest did labs, and values w/range values are
TSH = 3.19 mIU/L  (0.40 - 4.50)
FT3 = 271 pg/dL    (230 - 420)
FT4 = 0.9 ng/dL     (0.8 - 1.8)

Yes, T3 Rx is from compounding pharmacy with slow release.  My rT3 results were tested at normal a few months ago, and not tested in this latest batch because of that.

About 5 months ago a script for Synthroid was written in the attempt for a "quick fix", but my doctor also wanted to run further tests for Hashimoto's, so we didn't go the Synthroid route.  Also, at that same time I was tested and found depleted in iodine, so I at least wanted to try the mix of iodine (seaweed), selenium, and l-tyrosine first.  

I'm not wondering if my thyroid is off, I'm more questioning if it's the prime suspect to my health issues, especially with the weight loss and other non-symptoms.  It could be an innocent bystander?

[LazyMoose]

I dont know about the weight question....

But why is your doctor only prescribing T3? That is not the normal first step to treating hypo. And unless its slow realease T3, can result in ups and down through the day. T3 only is usually for people that suffer from reverse T3 (RT3).

Best to start T4 to see if it works and your body converts to t3 ok. If not , then you try T3 with T4.

Did doc give a reason for T3 only?

Please post your lab ranges for those results, to see the free's in the ranges.

[thyquestions]

I know, I'm sorry. I felt bad even posting it here.  Such a tough thing.

But ... it's possible then?   Yes??

This diagnosis is new and I have taken/take no meds, for anything.  My doctor prescribed a bioidentical T3 last week, which I haven't filled yet, as I hoped to resolve my health issues through diet/supplements, if possible.

My doctor originally thought I had Hashimoto's, but test results said 'no'.  Then she thought I had cancer, but that hasn't proved out either.

I have a few hypo symptoms (fatigue/cold/concentration/memory) but not all of them, and the weight thing is way off.  I have other symptoms too that don't correlate to hypo, and doc says T3 wouldn't likely improve those at all.

I cut out gluten 6 months ago also.. I seem to be sensitive now, but that's not why I cut it out.  I was not symptomatic at the time.  So that's another factor that may be relevant to weight loss.

I'm 43, no kids, always been athletic/healthy, although possibly a little hypo through the years (in retrospect), and the last 6 months have been rough.  I'm seeking another doctor for a 2nd opinion as I wonder if hypo is really the main culprit.

Any other thoughts?