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Diagonosed with Hashimoto Thyroiditis today.....
My HNO doctor said that my thyroid looked enlarged - that my neck looks swollen in the front. I didnt notice it and still really dont see it. But I went to another doctor and sure enough, it is enlarged and I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's.
Bloodwork came back values of
FT3 3.51 pg/ml (normal range 2.2 - 5.5)
FT4 0.94 ng/100ml (normal range 0.6 - 1.8)
TSH 2.39 mU/l (normal range 0.4 - 2.5)
TPO 199 U/ml (50 positive)
Looking back now, I am tired and dont sleep well. But I work full time and have 3 small kids. so what working mother with 3 small kids isnt tired?!?!
I also have been sick a lot this winter. I have been very susceptible to every virus or bacterial infection that i come accross!
Anyone else have similar values?!? Almost all the values except TPO are in the normal range....
Can Hashimotos go away?
Bloodwork came back values of
FT3 3.51 pg/ml (normal range 2.2 - 5.5)
FT4 0.94 ng/100ml (normal range 0.6 - 1.8)
TSH 2.39 mU/l (normal range 0.4 - 2.5)
TPO 199 U/ml (50 positive)
Looking back now, I am tired and dont sleep well. But I work full time and have 3 small kids. so what working mother with 3 small kids isnt tired?!?!
I also have been sick a lot this winter. I have been very susceptible to every virus or bacterial infection that i come accross!
Anyone else have similar values?!? Almost all the values except TPO are in the normal range....
Can Hashimotos go away?
Just got the report from the endocrinologist
Including the lab results:
Free T3 = 3.1ng/l (2.6-5.1)
Free T4 = 12.9 pg(ml (9.1-19.1)
TSH = 2.6 ulU/ml (0.27-4.2)
Anti-TPO (MAK) = 36.7 lU/ml (<35)
Anti-Thyglo (TAK) = 35 lU/ml (<40)
My Anti-TPO seems so much lower now (in this report) - it is only slightly higher than the normal range. Granted this is a different lab, but how can there be such a difference??? All the other values are close to being the same.
Translating the reports into English:
Nuclear medicine doctor said : Thryroid antibodies significantly elevated.
Endocrinologist said: Thryoird antibodies only discretly elevated.
Nuclear medicine doctor said : Ultrasound shows thryroid is enlarged
Endocrinologist said: Ultrasound shows thryroid not enlarged.
Nuclear medicine said, as a result of the immunthyroidities is a latent hypothyreose present.
Endocrinologist said: Thyroid function is normal.
Including the lab results:
Free T3 = 3.1ng/l (2.6-5.1)
Free T4 = 12.9 pg(ml (9.1-19.1)
TSH = 2.6 ulU/ml (0.27-4.2)
Anti-TPO (MAK) = 36.7 lU/ml (<35)
Anti-Thyglo (TAK) = 35 lU/ml (<40)
My Anti-TPO seems so much lower now (in this report) - it is only slightly higher than the normal range. Granted this is a different lab, but how can there be such a difference??? All the other values are close to being the same.
Translating the reports into English:
Nuclear medicine doctor said : Thryroid antibodies significantly elevated.
Endocrinologist said: Thryoird antibodies only discretly elevated.
Nuclear medicine doctor said : Ultrasound shows thryroid is enlarged
Endocrinologist said: Ultrasound shows thryroid not enlarged.
Nuclear medicine said, as a result of the immunthyroidities is a latent hypothyreose present.
Endocrinologist said: Thyroid function is normal.
i agree with you and dont plan on self-medicating with the selinium. I am going to go to a "heilpratiker" (someone who works with alternative medicines). He is 6 hours away and specializes in homeopathy. He has a few areas that he more or less has specialized in, including hashimotos. I was quite impressed by what I have read by people treated by him online and have an appointment next month. He works with another endocrinologist together to find the right mix of homeopathy & traditional medicine. I spoke to him and he said it really depends on the bloodwork, ultrasound, etc. Some patients are treated with just homeopathic means, and others a combination of L-thyroxin and selenium. It just depends ....It will be interesting to see what he says.
I will defintely remain smart about this. I am aware what untreated thyroid disease can lead to. Fact is I know that I do have chronic autoimmune thyroiditis. The question is if there is another way to reduce inflamation and antibodies naturally since several studies have revealed a significant reduction of anti-TPO concentrations in patients with AITD treated with 200 Ìg Se per day. Maybe if my TPO goes down, then my thyroid would be less under attack, and maybe the thyroid will be able to produce normal amounts of T3 and T4.
Another thing that I have heard, but havent researched as much, is that zinc is also a good supplement for hashimotos. Apparently Zinc increases thyroid function and is usually high in hypers and low in hypos.
I also read an interesting article about diet, in which they said: "According to a 1988 study from the Hazard Evaluation Division, U.S. Environmental Protection Agency vegetables like cabbage, Brussels sprouts, broccoli
and cauliflower contain natural goitrogens – thyroid gland-
enlarging chemicals that interfere with your thyroid hormones. Soy, sweet potatoes, maize, millet and lima beans are also goitrogens. Doctors advise against large quantities of these foods if you already have hypothyroidism, but bear in mind eating these healthy foods has not been proven to
cause hypothyroidism."
I will defintely remain smart about this. I am aware what untreated thyroid disease can lead to. Fact is I know that I do have chronic autoimmune thyroiditis. The question is if there is another way to reduce inflamation and antibodies naturally since several studies have revealed a significant reduction of anti-TPO concentrations in patients with AITD treated with 200 Ìg Se per day. Maybe if my TPO goes down, then my thyroid would be less under attack, and maybe the thyroid will be able to produce normal amounts of T3 and T4.
Another thing that I have heard, but havent researched as much, is that zinc is also a good supplement for hashimotos. Apparently Zinc increases thyroid function and is usually high in hypers and low in hypos.
I also read an interesting article about diet, in which they said: "According to a 1988 study from the Hazard Evaluation Division, U.S. Environmental Protection Agency vegetables like cabbage, Brussels sprouts, broccoli
and cauliflower contain natural goitrogens – thyroid gland-
enlarging chemicals that interfere with your thyroid hormones. Soy, sweet potatoes, maize, millet and lima beans are also goitrogens. Doctors advise against large quantities of these foods if you already have hypothyroidism, but bear in mind eating these healthy foods has not been proven to
cause hypothyroidism."
Will do, thanks for the links.
The pervasiveness of thyroid problems is not full recognized, because of the inadequate testing and diagnosis. The number of people with primary hypothyroidism from Hashi's is enormous. And the doctor that wrote the letter I gave you above says from his experience that secondary (central) hypothyroidism due to pituitary problems, that are not diagnosed due to a low TSH, has an even higher incidence. When you look at the effect of heredity passing hypothyroidism tendencies to following generations, plus the ease with which so many thing can affect the pituitary, I guess it is not too difficult to understand why the number of people affected is enormous, and extensively unrecognized.
The pervasiveness of thyroid problems is not full recognized, because of the inadequate testing and diagnosis. The number of people with primary hypothyroidism from Hashi's is enormous. And the doctor that wrote the letter I gave you above says from his experience that secondary (central) hypothyroidism due to pituitary problems, that are not diagnosed due to a low TSH, has an even higher incidence. When you look at the effect of heredity passing hypothyroidism tendencies to following generations, plus the ease with which so many thing can affect the pituitary, I guess it is not too difficult to understand why the number of people affected is enormous, and extensively unrecognized.
I think that is great that you try to help others.
This topic is relatively new for me, but as an engineer, I like to understand everything! I was very interested in learning more about how the thyroid works, etc and really have been "studying" this topic!!!
Like I said, here in Germany it really feels like the opposite. Just about everyone I spoke to in the past two weeks and mentioned my new diagnosis, responded that they also take thyroid hormones or their sister does or wife does. Seriously - almost everyone. Here it seems very very very common. I was very surprised cause I had no idea that so many people I know take thyroid meds.
(I also feel like it is the same here with antibiotics - sooooo many doctors are willing to perscribe them very quicky. I dont know though if it s the same in the US. I moved here 10 years ago and cant remember)
It is a shame that you had to wait so long to finally convince someone that you need it! I guess neither situation is good: having to convince someone that you have an issue, or given meds too fast/easily.
The link to the German study is here: http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/87/4/1687.full
And the Greek study is here:
http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/87/4/1687.full
And here is another one:
http://joe.endocrinology-journals.org/cgi/content/full/190/1/151
The endocrinologist that I saw today said that the hspital here is participating on a nationwide study with many other universities and hospitals to look into it as well. The participation list is already closed, and it will go on for a year. He told me he can not guarantee that it works becuase he has seen several studies with different outcomes, but that it can't hurt.
If you read those articles, let me know what you think.
This topic is relatively new for me, but as an engineer, I like to understand everything! I was very interested in learning more about how the thyroid works, etc and really have been "studying" this topic!!!
Like I said, here in Germany it really feels like the opposite. Just about everyone I spoke to in the past two weeks and mentioned my new diagnosis, responded that they also take thyroid hormones or their sister does or wife does. Seriously - almost everyone. Here it seems very very very common. I was very surprised cause I had no idea that so many people I know take thyroid meds.
(I also feel like it is the same here with antibiotics - sooooo many doctors are willing to perscribe them very quicky. I dont know though if it s the same in the US. I moved here 10 years ago and cant remember)
It is a shame that you had to wait so long to finally convince someone that you need it! I guess neither situation is good: having to convince someone that you have an issue, or given meds too fast/easily.
The link to the German study is here: http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/87/4/1687.full
And the Greek study is here:
http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/87/4/1687.full
And here is another one:
http://joe.endocrinology-journals.org/cgi/content/full/190/1/151
The endocrinologist that I saw today said that the hspital here is participating on a nationwide study with many other universities and hospitals to look into it as well. The participation list is already closed, and it will go on for a year. He told me he can not guarantee that it works becuase he has seen several studies with different outcomes, but that it can't hurt.
If you read those articles, let me know what you think.
Also be aware that you can get too much Selenium and if so can become toxic.
So I guess if you are going to go the Selenium route which may work in the short term. I respect that you desire to control this naturally if you at all can. But you should also go about this as wisely as you can. Therefore, you may want to consider getting a blood test to determine where your Selenium levels are currently at and keep monitoring the levels so that you don't take too much.
From what I've gathered, it seems that Selenium helps with the conversion process of T4 to T3. Thus if you can initially increase your efficiency of that conversion you may be able to make up for the loss of thyroid efficiency due to Hashi's. But that can only be maximized to a certain extent. After that any decrease in thyroid function will have to be made up with thyroid medication.
As far as I'm aware, there is not a natural herb or supplement that really contains they thyroid hormone. Thus it appears when deficient, the only real way to get more is to take medication containing the hormone.
I hope the Selenium routine works for you. Please keep us informed how it is working. Others may well benefit from your experience.
So I guess if you are going to go the Selenium route which may work in the short term. I respect that you desire to control this naturally if you at all can. But you should also go about this as wisely as you can. Therefore, you may want to consider getting a blood test to determine where your Selenium levels are currently at and keep monitoring the levels so that you don't take too much.
From what I've gathered, it seems that Selenium helps with the conversion process of T4 to T3. Thus if you can initially increase your efficiency of that conversion you may be able to make up for the loss of thyroid efficiency due to Hashi's. But that can only be maximized to a certain extent. After that any decrease in thyroid function will have to be made up with thyroid medication.
As far as I'm aware, there is not a natural herb or supplement that really contains they thyroid hormone. Thus it appears when deficient, the only real way to get more is to take medication containing the hormone.
I hope the Selenium routine works for you. Please keep us informed how it is working. Others may well benefit from your experience.
No, just a long time thyroid patient that started from having Hashi's, I am told. This was well over 25 years ago, so I didn't have a clue, other than the many symptoms that I developed, the worst of which was fatigue. Many different doctors looked at TSH of 4.95 and said, not thyroid. Finally when I could barely drag myself out of bed to go to work, I found a doctor willing to give me a therapeutic trial of T4 med, because I had such a low basal body temperature. The meds were an improvement for a while, but I had to keep increasing dose. Over a long period I got up to 200 mcg of Synthroid and still had lingering hypo symptoms.
Only after finding this Forum 4 years ago and learning about Hashi's and Free T3 and Free T4 did I finally make progress. I got my Free T3 and T4 tested and confirmed that even though my FT4 was at very high end of the range, my Free T3 was very low in the range. Convinced my doctor to switch me to a NDT med, Armour Thyroid, and after some bumps in the road and some tweaking, my FT3 is 3.9 (range of 2.3 - 4.2, FT4 is .84 (range of .60 - 1.50) and TSH about .05, and I feel best ever.
Because of all that I learned from some of the dedicated and experienced members of this Forum that helped me so much, I decided to stay involved and help other members whenever possible. Since I am now retired, I have the time to do the required amount of searching for thyroid related info on the net and then use my own experience and the knowledge gained to try to benefit others.
I'd really like to see that study from Germany if you would kindly give me a link.
Only after finding this Forum 4 years ago and learning about Hashi's and Free T3 and Free T4 did I finally make progress. I got my Free T3 and T4 tested and confirmed that even though my FT4 was at very high end of the range, my Free T3 was very low in the range. Convinced my doctor to switch me to a NDT med, Armour Thyroid, and after some bumps in the road and some tweaking, my FT3 is 3.9 (range of 2.3 - 4.2, FT4 is .84 (range of .60 - 1.50) and TSH about .05, and I feel best ever.
Because of all that I learned from some of the dedicated and experienced members of this Forum that helped me so much, I decided to stay involved and help other members whenever possible. Since I am now retired, I have the time to do the required amount of searching for thyroid related info on the net and then use my own experience and the knowledge gained to try to benefit others.
I'd really like to see that study from Germany if you would kindly give me a link.
i live in Germany and here it seems to me to be the opposite of what you describe. I have the feeling that EVERYONE takes thyroid medicine and it is very easily given. I NEVER expected the doctor that I saw today to say I didnt need it.
As far as symptoms are concerned, no I really didnt have any. I was at a ENT doctor because of allergies and a sore throat and he told me I should see a nuclear medicine doctor to have my thyroid checked out as well. That doctor gave me the diagnosis I mentioned above. Then i checked the list of symptoms and the only I could see that fit are being tired and not sleeping well. But I work full time and have 3 small kids under the age of 4, who come to my bed in the night - so being tired and not sleeping well might have something to do with my thyroid but I guess probably not. who knows? that was the only symptoms I could identify from the list. I have a very active life style, have a very normal weight, and dont have any other issues - other than allergies. but that i have had all my life.
Therefore I didnt really see the need to take hormones (at least at this time)....not if there are other options. Selenium deficiency has been implicated in the etiology of Hashimoto's thyroiditis, and selenium supplementation has been found beneficial.
The first study from Crete was published in the 2007 Thyroid Journal. This study reported a 21 % reduction in TPO antibodies after one year of selenomethionine supplements (200 mcg per day).
A second study from Germany from the 2002 Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism showed a 40 % reduction in antibody levels after selenium supplementation with 9 of 36 (25%) patients completely normalizing their antibody levels.
That is why I would like to give this a try before taking hormones. I think that some people take them too "easily" and quickly. There are implications to taking hormones....I would rather try to support my Thyroid.
just out of curosity: are you a doctor?
As far as symptoms are concerned, no I really didnt have any. I was at a ENT doctor because of allergies and a sore throat and he told me I should see a nuclear medicine doctor to have my thyroid checked out as well. That doctor gave me the diagnosis I mentioned above. Then i checked the list of symptoms and the only I could see that fit are being tired and not sleeping well. But I work full time and have 3 small kids under the age of 4, who come to my bed in the night - so being tired and not sleeping well might have something to do with my thyroid but I guess probably not. who knows? that was the only symptoms I could identify from the list. I have a very active life style, have a very normal weight, and dont have any other issues - other than allergies. but that i have had all my life.
Therefore I didnt really see the need to take hormones (at least at this time)....not if there are other options. Selenium deficiency has been implicated in the etiology of Hashimoto's thyroiditis, and selenium supplementation has been found beneficial.
The first study from Crete was published in the 2007 Thyroid Journal. This study reported a 21 % reduction in TPO antibodies after one year of selenomethionine supplements (200 mcg per day).
A second study from Germany from the 2002 Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism showed a 40 % reduction in antibody levels after selenium supplementation with 9 of 36 (25%) patients completely normalizing their antibody levels.
That is why I would like to give this a try before taking hormones. I think that some people take them too "easily" and quickly. There are implications to taking hormones....I would rather try to support my Thyroid.
just out of curosity: are you a doctor?
Yes, symptoms are most important; however, don't i remember from your posts above that you have some symptoms that could relate to being hypo? I think you are very early in the cycle of destruction of your thyroid by the antibodies, but do you have any other of the many symptoms that relate to being hypo? Have a look at this site.
http://thyroid.about.com/cs/basics_starthere/a/hypochecklist.htm
Look, I'm not trying to push you into anything, I am just relating the experience of many members who have gone through Hashi's. They start with a few light symptoms. They find they have Hashi's. Their doctors tell them all tests are within the so-called "normal" ranges, nothing else needed. Over time they develop worse symptoms. Doctor says your TSH is still within the range of .5 - 5.0, symptoms must be due to something else. Even if they do test for Free T4, because the ranges are far too broad, they will typically find it in the "normal" range as well, so not a problem. When the patient finally gets totally frustrated and can't live with the symptoms anymore they become our fellow members.
Personally I would prefer the approach taken in the link I gave you above. when Hashi's is recognized, start early treatment and avoid the worst of the impending symptoms. Treating with zinc, selenium, or antioxidants is not going to solve the problem of Hashi's. Thyroid medication (natural hormone) will substitute for the loss of natural thyroid production and if dosage is sufficient, will raise your Free T3 and Free T4 levels enough to relieve symptoms. Your choice.
http://thyroid.about.com/cs/basics_starthere/a/hypochecklist.htm
Look, I'm not trying to push you into anything, I am just relating the experience of many members who have gone through Hashi's. They start with a few light symptoms. They find they have Hashi's. Their doctors tell them all tests are within the so-called "normal" ranges, nothing else needed. Over time they develop worse symptoms. Doctor says your TSH is still within the range of .5 - 5.0, symptoms must be due to something else. Even if they do test for Free T4, because the ranges are far too broad, they will typically find it in the "normal" range as well, so not a problem. When the patient finally gets totally frustrated and can't live with the symptoms anymore they become our fellow members.
Personally I would prefer the approach taken in the link I gave you above. when Hashi's is recognized, start early treatment and avoid the worst of the impending symptoms. Treating with zinc, selenium, or antioxidants is not going to solve the problem of Hashi's. Thyroid medication (natural hormone) will substitute for the loss of natural thyroid production and if dosage is sufficient, will raise your Free T3 and Free T4 levels enough to relieve symptoms. Your choice.
this page of that website is interesting : http://www.hormonerestoration.com/NatPharm.html
Especially: "Natural hormones and vitanutrients can restore health. Pharmaceuticals usually cannot restore health except in certain cases (e.g. killing parasites). .......Natural Scientific practice should be primary; pharmaceutical practice secondary. Today the emphasis is on pharmaceutical practice--putting a bandaid on the problem and using parts that are not original! That's where the big money is for the pharmaceutical corporations, so that's the model they promote with their billions of research and advertising dollars. Pharmaceutical companies fund medical oranizations and medical information at all levels, distorting medical science so much that most physicians have unfounded confidence in unnatural drugs while remaining ignorant and fearful of natural hormones, vitamins, and minerals!"
Why not try a natural solution like zink or selenium first? After all I dont really have any symptoms like a big neck, large thyroid, weight changes, etc. Why not try to support the thyroid with antioxidents instead of jumping to an external hormone source when it isnt proven to be necessary? Havent many people here stated that first and formost of importance is how the patient feels and how they are doing?
Especially: "Natural hormones and vitanutrients can restore health. Pharmaceuticals usually cannot restore health except in certain cases (e.g. killing parasites). .......Natural Scientific practice should be primary; pharmaceutical practice secondary. Today the emphasis is on pharmaceutical practice--putting a bandaid on the problem and using parts that are not original! That's where the big money is for the pharmaceutical corporations, so that's the model they promote with their billions of research and advertising dollars. Pharmaceutical companies fund medical oranizations and medical information at all levels, distorting medical science so much that most physicians have unfounded confidence in unnatural drugs while remaining ignorant and fearful of natural hormones, vitamins, and minerals!"
Why not try a natural solution like zink or selenium first? After all I dont really have any symptoms like a big neck, large thyroid, weight changes, etc. Why not try to support the thyroid with antioxidents instead of jumping to an external hormone source when it isnt proven to be necessary? Havent many people here stated that first and formost of importance is how the patient feels and how they are doing?
Have a look at this link.
http://www.hormonerestoration.com/Thyroid.html
Also, please take special note of this statement.
"The TSH level can never be trusted. A doctor must always look for
symptoms first, and look at the free T4 and free T3 thyroid hormone levels second. In Dr. Lindner's experience, people with hypothyroid symptoms and free T4 and/or free T3 levels in the lower halves of the laboratory reference ranges benefit tremendously from thyroid hormone
optimization. When both are in the lower third of their population ranges, the person generally has severe hypothyroidism, regardless of the TSH level."
http://www.hormonerestoration.com/Thyroid.html
Also, please take special note of this statement.
"The TSH level can never be trusted. A doctor must always look for
symptoms first, and look at the free T4 and free T3 thyroid hormone levels second. In Dr. Lindner's experience, people with hypothyroid symptoms and free T4 and/or free T3 levels in the lower halves of the laboratory reference ranges benefit tremendously from thyroid hormone
optimization. When both are in the lower third of their population ranges, the person generally has severe hypothyroidism, regardless of the TSH level."
oh and you asked Was there any indication that he expected that your thyroid hormone levels would be decreasing and that thyroid meds would become necessary sometime in the future? .
Yes, he did say that he has seen many patients where the values stay the same and never get worse. He said there was no way to definitely know if it was a Postpartum Thyroiditis that triggered this, but that that is a possibilitiy. He said that if we should closely monitor it and if the values get worse then maybe hormones would be necessary , but that it coiuld also be that they remain in the normal range and that the antibodies dont increase. 199 is positive for antibodies but many people with Hashimotos have considerably higher.
Yes, he did say that he has seen many patients where the values stay the same and never get worse. He said there was no way to definitely know if it was a Postpartum Thyroiditis that triggered this, but that that is a possibilitiy. He said that if we should closely monitor it and if the values get worse then maybe hormones would be necessary , but that it coiuld also be that they remain in the normal range and that the antibodies dont increase. 199 is positive for antibodies but many people with Hashimotos have considerably higher.
thank you for the link.
Well now i have two doctors who have seen me, taken blood and done ultrasounds one did a scintigramm.
The 1st doctor (nuclear medicine doctor dealing with thyroid issues) said that my thyroid is enlarged, that the blood values are normal but that TSH is in the upper range of normal. Scintigram is ok, uptake is ok, no nodules. Suggestion: I should take hormones.
The 2nd doctor (endocrinologist specializing in autoimmune disorders) said that my thyroid is NOT enlarged. He took blood today but dont have results. Based on looking at the other doctors bloodwork, he said TSH of 2.39 is still fine, and that they dont use 2.5 as upper limit, but rather 4.5 mU/l. Suggestion: since I dont really have any symptoms (other than tired and not sleeping well) which are definitately related to the thyroid, then we should (assuming the bloodwork that he did comes back similar to original blood work) that we meet again in 6 months and see the situation.
To be honest, I prefer that. I think that taking hormones doesnt really get to the root cause of thie issue which is teh immune system. And if the thyroid is still able to produce hormone, then I would prefer to find a homeopathic way of trying to reduce inflammation in the thyroid and support immune system. I plan on making some diet changes to have more antioxidants and might start taking selenium and zink supplements to support the thyroid function, as opposed to taking hormones for the rest of my life and taking the work away from the thyroid.
Well now i have two doctors who have seen me, taken blood and done ultrasounds one did a scintigramm.
The 1st doctor (nuclear medicine doctor dealing with thyroid issues) said that my thyroid is enlarged, that the blood values are normal but that TSH is in the upper range of normal. Scintigram is ok, uptake is ok, no nodules. Suggestion: I should take hormones.
The 2nd doctor (endocrinologist specializing in autoimmune disorders) said that my thyroid is NOT enlarged. He took blood today but dont have results. Based on looking at the other doctors bloodwork, he said TSH of 2.39 is still fine, and that they dont use 2.5 as upper limit, but rather 4.5 mU/l. Suggestion: since I dont really have any symptoms (other than tired and not sleeping well) which are definitately related to the thyroid, then we should (assuming the bloodwork that he did comes back similar to original blood work) that we meet again in 6 months and see the situation.
To be honest, I prefer that. I think that taking hormones doesnt really get to the root cause of thie issue which is teh immune system. And if the thyroid is still able to produce hormone, then I would prefer to find a homeopathic way of trying to reduce inflammation in the thyroid and support immune system. I plan on making some diet changes to have more antioxidants and might start taking selenium and zink supplements to support the thyroid function, as opposed to taking hormones for the rest of my life and taking the work away from the thyroid.
Forgot to give you this link that I think you will find interesting.
http://thyroid.about.com/od/hypothyroidismhashimotos/a/preventative.htm
http://thyroid.about.com/od/hypothyroidismhashimotos/a/preventative.htm
So according to your doctor, there is no need to take thyroid meds. Even though you apparently have Hashimoto's Thyroiditis and are beginning to already have hypo symptoms, since your Free T3 and Free T4 are too low in their ranges. And by the way those ranges are not really FUNCTIONAL ranges, they are just lab ranges that are based on all patients given thyroid tests, including those with thyroid problems. If that is the best you got from this endo specialist, then I'd hate to find out what you would have heard from someone that was not a specialist.
Unfortunately your doctor's approach is not too unusual for patients like yourself. Many doctors want to wait until a patient is having overt symptoms of being hypothyroid before agreeing to prescribe meds. Other doctors will agree to take action earlier to help minimize the effect of any hypo symptoms.
Did the specialist say anything about you having Hashi's? Did he even mention a possible cause for your symptoms? Was there any indication that he expected that your thyroid hormone levels would be decreasing and that thyroid meds would become necessary sometime in the future?
Unfortunately your doctor's approach is not too unusual for patients like yourself. Many doctors want to wait until a patient is having overt symptoms of being hypothyroid before agreeing to prescribe meds. Other doctors will agree to take action earlier to help minimize the effect of any hypo symptoms.
Did the specialist say anything about you having Hashi's? Did he even mention a possible cause for your symptoms? Was there any indication that he expected that your thyroid hormone levels would be decreasing and that thyroid meds would become necessary sometime in the future?
ps. he specializes in autoimmune diseases and in thyroid disorders. i had to drive quite a way to get to him, but it was worth it.
I went to an endocrinologist specialist and he said that my thyroid is not enlarged and that since my values are in the normal ranges and hte thyroid is functioning, that there is no need for me to take any hormones.
You need to find a good thyroid Dr. "Good" is not necessarily defined by their credentials. That is an Endo is not necessarily better than your primary care physician.
Finding a "good" thyroid Dr is like finding hen's teeth it seems. In fact Endo's may be some of the worst chances as they seem these days to not know much about Thyroid and concentrate on diabetes.
Now then what would I define as a "good" thyroid Dr.
1) One that will test for more than Just TSH. In fact if they only test for TSH I'd look for a new Dr ASAP. We call those Dr's ones who have "immaculate TSH belief". TSH is TOTALLY inaccurate way to adjust medication. And those that believe it is will almost assuredly keep you feeling sick.
2) One that ALWAYS tests for both Free T3 and Free T4. This is really critical.
3) One that doesn't just treat until you get "somewhere" within the normal range. We call these Dr's those who practice "reference range endocrinology". The ranges are FAR to broad and simply being on the lower end of the range is NOT good enough. Many people find they need their FT4 to be in the MIDDLE of the range AND (that means in addition to) they need their FT3 to be in the UPPER 1/3 of the range in order to obtain symptom relief.
4) One that looks at lab results (both FT3 and FT4) and also takes into account your clinical response. That is your symptoms and keeps adjusting medication dosages to relieve you of your symptoms. Once that occurs you will then know the target blood labs where you feel well and can then shoot for that bulls-eye if your labs ever deviate from those levels.
These 4 traits can be found in almost any Dr. But they are unfortunately RARE to find it seems.
Finding a "good" thyroid Dr is like finding hen's teeth it seems. In fact Endo's may be some of the worst chances as they seem these days to not know much about Thyroid and concentrate on diabetes.
Now then what would I define as a "good" thyroid Dr.
1) One that will test for more than Just TSH. In fact if they only test for TSH I'd look for a new Dr ASAP. We call those Dr's ones who have "immaculate TSH belief". TSH is TOTALLY inaccurate way to adjust medication. And those that believe it is will almost assuredly keep you feeling sick.
2) One that ALWAYS tests for both Free T3 and Free T4. This is really critical.
3) One that doesn't just treat until you get "somewhere" within the normal range. We call these Dr's those who practice "reference range endocrinology". The ranges are FAR to broad and simply being on the lower end of the range is NOT good enough. Many people find they need their FT4 to be in the MIDDLE of the range AND (that means in addition to) they need their FT3 to be in the UPPER 1/3 of the range in order to obtain symptom relief.
4) One that looks at lab results (both FT3 and FT4) and also takes into account your clinical response. That is your symptoms and keeps adjusting medication dosages to relieve you of your symptoms. Once that occurs you will then know the target blood labs where you feel well and can then shoot for that bulls-eye if your labs ever deviate from those levels.
These 4 traits can be found in almost any Dr. But they are unfortunately RARE to find it seems.
I havent started taking anything yet. I got the diagnosis yesterday in the mail (I asked to receive the lab report) so I havent spoken to my doctor about it yet. On the report it states suggested therapy is 1/2 L-Thyroxin 50 tablet each day for 10 dayas and if it goes well, then increase to 1 tablet/day after that. In the report it states that thyroid antibodies are raised significantly. I assume the TPO number is the TPO antibodies based on what is written inth report and the fact that positive would be more than 50 U/ml.
What kind of doctor should I see? An Endocrinologist who deals with thyroid disorders? OR an Immunologist who deals with antiimmune disorders?!?!?
What kind of doctor should I see? An Endocrinologist who deals with thyroid disorders? OR an Immunologist who deals with antiimmune disorders?!?!?
COMMUNITY LEADER
The TPO listed above is apparently, TPOab, since "50 positive". That would confirm Hashi's.
Pookie, both your FT levels are very low in the ranges and this could easily cause you to have symptoms. I wonder, though, if you might have been started on too high a dose of levo, since it's usually best to start at a very low dose and work up slowly.
Pookie, both your FT levels are very low in the ranges and this could easily cause you to have symptoms. I wonder, though, if you might have been started on too high a dose of levo, since it's usually best to start at a very low dose and work up slowly.
How were you diagnosed with Hashi's?
The two tests that confirm Hashis are:
TPOab and TGab.
NEITHER of these tests were run. TPO is different from TPO antibody test.
For a person to be positive for Hoashi's, they need to have elevated antibody levels in EITHER one of the two tests mentioned. Some people are only elevated for one of them, others are elevated on the other and some people are elevated for both antibody's.
The two tests that confirm Hashis are:
TPOab and TGab.
NEITHER of these tests were run. TPO is different from TPO antibody test.
For a person to be positive for Hoashi's, they need to have elevated antibody levels in EITHER one of the two tests mentioned. Some people are only elevated for one of them, others are elevated on the other and some people are elevated for both antibody's.
Thanks, Yes that is somehting that I also read. I have been really suffering from upper respiratory infections in the past couple of months. I hardly ever take antibiotics, but in December and January I had to take two different antibiotics for two seperate cases of bronchitis! And now I have a cough AGAIN. Plus the reason I was originally at the ENT doctor was because I cant breath through my nose because my allergies are worse, even though it is not the weather for that.....
The doctor recommended that I take L-Thyronxin 50.
I guess I was just hoping it was related to my twin pregnancy or to having an hormonal IUD - something that I could do to make it go away....
The doctor recommended that I take L-Thyronxin 50.
I guess I was just hoping it was related to my twin pregnancy or to having an hormonal IUD - something that I could do to make it go away....
Meant to mention that Hashimoto's won't go away. It will progressively destroy your thyroid gland, over an extended period. This will cause you to gradually increase your meds to prevent symptoms.
Also, I expect that if you look through this list of 26 typical hypothyroid symptoms, you will find there are others as well.
During times when I have been even slightly hypo I have noticed a greater tendency to have upper respiratory infections such as bronchitis and sinus infections.
Also, I expect that if you look through this list of 26 typical hypothyroid symptoms, you will find there are others as well.
During times when I have been even slightly hypo I have noticed a greater tendency to have upper respiratory infections such as bronchitis and sinus infections.
TSH is a pituitary hormone that is affected by so many variables that at best it is an indicator to be considered along with more important indicators such as symptoms, and also the levels of the biologically active thyroid hormones, Free T3 and Free T4. Free T3 is the most important because it largely regulates metabolism and many other body functions. Scientific studies have shown that Free T3 correlated best with hypo symptoms, while Free T4 and TSH did not correlate.
Just because thyroid test results are within the reference ranges does not mean that is adequate for YOU. The ranges are far too broad for that to be the case. Many of our members, myself included, report that symptom relief for them required that Free T3 was adjusted into the upper third of its range and free t4 adjusted to around the middle of its range.
A good thyroid doctor will treat a hypo patient clinically by testing and adjusting Free T3 and Free T4 as necessary to relieve symptoms, without being constrained by resultant TSH levels. You can gain some good insight into clinical treatment from this letter written by a good thyroid doctor for patients that he sometimes consults with from a distance. the letter is sent to the PCP of the patient to help guide treatment.
http://hormonerestoration.com/files/ThyroidPMD.pdf
In the letter, take special note of this statement.
"TSH-based thyroidology is an unjustified faith in the infallibility of the hypothalamic-pituitary axis. One must instead base the diagnosis and dosing on symptoms first, and on the free T4 and free T3 levels second. Even here, “normal” is not good enough. The labs’ reference ranges for FT4 and FT3 are not optimal ranges; they are statistics: 95%-inclusive population ranges. They are excessively broad (2 to 3x from bottom to top) and define only the bottom 2.5% of the population studied as “low”. The prevalence of hypothyroidism is much greater than 2.5%."
Just because thyroid test results are within the reference ranges does not mean that is adequate for YOU. The ranges are far too broad for that to be the case. Many of our members, myself included, report that symptom relief for them required that Free T3 was adjusted into the upper third of its range and free t4 adjusted to around the middle of its range.
A good thyroid doctor will treat a hypo patient clinically by testing and adjusting Free T3 and Free T4 as necessary to relieve symptoms, without being constrained by resultant TSH levels. You can gain some good insight into clinical treatment from this letter written by a good thyroid doctor for patients that he sometimes consults with from a distance. the letter is sent to the PCP of the patient to help guide treatment.
http://hormonerestoration.com/files/ThyroidPMD.pdf
In the letter, take special note of this statement.
"TSH-based thyroidology is an unjustified faith in the infallibility of the hypothalamic-pituitary axis. One must instead base the diagnosis and dosing on symptoms first, and on the free T4 and free T3 levels second. Even here, “normal” is not good enough. The labs’ reference ranges for FT4 and FT3 are not optimal ranges; they are statistics: 95%-inclusive population ranges. They are excessively broad (2 to 3x from bottom to top) and define only the bottom 2.5% of the population studied as “low”. The prevalence of hypothyroidism is much greater than 2.5%."
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