I'm just curious about any legal position w/ personal doctors and/or Standards and Practices within the AMA. Is there a legal history? It seems there is so much needless suffering for so many people (in legalese, a "class"), and that the most current research is often not known or ignored by physicians. Proper labs are often not administered. Symptoms are ignored. It also seems spectacularly foolish for the FDA to allow a plus-or-minus 10% variation in strength in generic medications for hypothyroidism, and to allow drug manufacturers to use cheap fillers in generic drugs that actually bind the release of hormones and prevent proper absorption. Thoughts, anyone ?
Here in Australia unless you drop dead or bits fall off you, we cannot sue for not being diagnosed with a thyroid issue, or other issues for that matter.
I think it would be better to form a group to educate rather than punish doctor's who may genuinely not had enough information to make an informed decision. The US health system is already expensive enough, and I know for a fact many doctors there have to pay quite high insurance for in-case of being sued.
The newest medication on the market is Tirosent, it has no fillers at all. It seems to be the best thing since sliced bread for thyroid patients. Perhaps the wheels of progress medically are turning slowly.
Oh, thanks for responding. I understand your reasoning, but in the US, sometimes a class action suit is the only thing that gets any results. I have been "educating" my doctors for 10 years now while I've become progressively more ill. Lots of tests, lots of insurance payments, lots of copays, lots of visits to psychiatrists for depression that ceased w/ T3...but physically no improvement, in fact getting worse. I can't imagine how many gallons of blood have been collected !! Doctors are getting paid lots of $$ to file pieces of paper in my medical file without critically considering them to make a diagnosis, and the insurance companies are reaping huge profits for a lot of paper shuffling themselves. I'm not thinking of suing my doctor personally, I like her but the endos are a nightmare. Just wondered what others know or thought.
Tirosint is not on any insurance formulary, especially not any Medicare formulary, which means that one pays full price or a top-tier co-pay. I am currently paying $85 per month for Cytomel on Medicare, when I paid $35 last month under my old health insurance. Go figure.
I sure hope you're riding out the weather extremes in Australia, we here in US worry about the Aussies and keep you in the Light. Cheers.
I don't mean to smile on this post but you almost have to.
As a patient myself - the anger of how I lost so much with this certainly drove me insane when I got well. I was at death's door for years and then when I was blessed to basically pick the bulls horns up and found answers - SURE - I wanted to sue the heck out of the ones who nearly killed me if not make them pay and feel as I did and keep them sick. A demented thought goes through someone who has to struggle as so many of us do and then when we find something out that helps - anger is a mild term for how unfair we felt we were treated.
As an advocant for "us" - I turned that anger into a mission. Sometimes I feel we are making milestones and sometimes I feel we are hitting brick walls - but keep pushing for better care on the positive is where I go.
The energy I would waste alone sueing one doctor ( and probably losing) wouldn't change a thing except make me even more broke - but developing a mission to abolish horrible thyroid care is where I need to be - globally with others doing the same thing.
Well said, Stella. I so admire the work you do for us here on the forum. It's hard to keep a generous heart sometimes and it's been amazing to see you pick up the reins here the way you have. Having been the successful plaintiff in several lawsuits ( car, mold ) I know how much legal action ***** the life out of your life. Even when you win a lawsuit, in a way, you don't really win.
I do wish that there was some united effort that could be made, not just me trying to persuade my individual doctors that nobody knows my body better than me, that I don't in fact have a mental disorder but rather that I'm intelligent enough to read current medical journals, including European ones, that they may have missed due to lack of time (to be tactful) , but most importantly, that there is such a huge body of anecdotal evidence against diagnosing by TSH alone that it would seem it can no longer be ignored.
Sometimes I imagine us marching on Washington, surrounding the FDA and the NIH, thousands strong, chanting....."Thyroid Patients Unite ! You Have Nothing To Lose But Your Chains !"
Until then, I'll just keep a postin' and a answerin' here on the forum. Winkin' at ya, Stella. And you better smile on this post...it's what gets us through it !
I agree with Stella about law suits; it would probably serve no purpose, except to make us more broke, and our care more expensive because the more law suits doctors have to defend, the higher their malpractice insurance, the higher our care....... I think this is part of what got our medical costs so out of line to begin with......
Who would you sue in a class action suit? You can't sue the medical profession in general. Many of us have had poor care, and gone on to get well.
I agree with Stella - it's much better for us to put our energies into helping other people obtain the treatment they need, by passing along information, regarding what helped us get well; what they might be able to try, etc.
There are some really good doctors out there, who will actually treat their patients, clinically, rather than simply by the old TSH standard....... there are also advocate groups trying to "educate" both doctors and patients. With perseverance, it can be done.
In regards to Tirosint - it is on my insurance formulary; I just refilled my scripts for it last night (I'm alternating 75 mcg, with 100 mcg); cost me approx $56 for 3 month supply. I can look at the pharmacy sheet to see what the full price is.
@Barb, Tirosint is not on the Blue Cross Freedom Blue plan Medicare formulary. I would have to jump through hoops and then pay a top tier drug price. I have been on generic levo since 2009 and Cytomel/generic T3 in addition. My dose isn't resolved yet. ( My advice to all, try not to live past 65, Medicare is a nightmare. Just kidding about the death part.)
As I said, just having a philosophical discussion here, not actually working myself up.
Food for thought:
"common grounds for medical malpractice"
>delay of treatment
>failure to diagnose accurately by act or omission
>failure to follow up on prescribed treatment
>pain and suffering
>loss of life's enjoyment
>loss of marital benefits ( ! )
Bet all of us have experienced some , if not all, of these ! I'm just sayin'. :- \
As to the insurance companies, Oooooh Stella, I don't think we want to open up THAT can of worms, do we ?
There is no guideline that would tell doctors what tests to run on ALL because everyone has different symptoms for the same disease. Everyone feels different at certain levels regardless if what test is done. Not everyone reacts the same to medication, so what might work for me, may hinder you.
It all comes down to what relationship you have with your doctor in my opinion. To me doctors have so many patients and are over loaded for me to expect them to figure me out in the 15mins alotted. I love my doctor, & will only go when something is seriously wrong, like running a temp, or doubled over in pain, or unable to keep food down, other than that, I try to go on with life. But this is just how I am.
Food for thought:
"common grounds for medical malpractice"
>delay of treatment
>failure to diagnose accurately by act or omission
>failure to follow up on prescribed treatment
>pain and suffering
>loss of life's enjoyment
>loss of marital benefits ( ! )
I had/have all of the above, and sure I was bloody angry and still am that I lost my kids, my husband and my job over something as trivial as a thyroid misdiagnosis. (20 years misdiagnosed) Having had all this happen to me, I really can not see that suing my doctor would make my life any better. Would it change who I am today? No. Would my health be any better? No. Would it bring back the lost years of no life? No. Would it make my doctor test any better? Probably not. Would having money in my bank account make my life any better? For sure. But what is money when you have no health in the first place? Nothing. It won't buy me back my life, it can't ever replace the years my kids saw their mum sleeping 18 hours, had no dinner, no clean clothes, looking like a junkie. It can't bring me to be less tired. It can pay my bills to make me less worried, but it still would not bring about the changes necessary to improve other patients lives.
To me as I said in my original post on this thread. I still believe there needs to be an advocacy group of thyroid patient who can tell their misdiagnosedmaltreated stories to the AMA or whichever medical board is in charge in your country, and SHOW doctors the system needs to be regulated. It needs to be a global thing. It needs to be that around the world, reference ranges are the same. There needs to be an automatic testing done on mum's at around the 3 month mark after a baby is born. There needs to be automatic testing on any psych patient (this is actually starting to happen here in Australia). There needs to be more availability for doctors to read up on thyroid issues, and not just a small paragraph in the Lancet (many doctor's have this subscribed to them and they often just never read the articles, unless it is to do with latest drugs)
I sincerely can not see how suing a doctor is going to change anything.
My case in point, I was born with deformities, My mother took Distaval, (thalidomide drig) for morning sickness. It meant I could not join the RAAF, be a driving instructor, go surfing, high dive, many other things. This peeved me no end, so I decided to sue the company which made the drug. (they had been aware for many years it caused side effects, not just short limbs) Our government in its infinite wisdom destroyed all records after 15 years, from hospital births at that time. Why? Lack of room with papers. Bull dust! We had microfische then! Years and years later, I was still angry and tried many ways to sue. One doctor I had been venting to said, "Maria, you KNOW it caused those things, they admitted to it. What good would it do to sue them now? It wouldn't change YOU or make your life any different. Why don't you let it go and enjoy life as you have it, instead of wishing what could be?" I tell you what, that was only late last year and his words certainly changed my thinking.
Suing, and getting the money is like an admittance of guilt on behalf of the doctor. Would it change how they treat a patient? Not likely. They are a business like any other. I know this cause I asked my doctor many years ago about certain issues. They had a budget and had to keep testing down to a low level. They are accountable to our government when they do testing. (our government pays for a lot of pathology) Our doctors have a time limit on their computers, they click they are seeing the patient, then the time they left, if it is common that the doctor is taking too long with many patients, they get sacked. (seen it here in my town, lost 5 good doctors cos they took longer than the mandatory 7 minutes) I stick to the same doctor as much as possible, so they are aware of my case in their heads and not just with the last two pages on the computer screen.
There needs to be a group of us who can get together with the relevant medical boards and start changing health systems way of dealing with patients needs, not just for thyroid.
I jump off my soapbox now and make a cup of tea...ginger of course, to clear the head and brain fog! Hee hee
["There needs to be a group of us who can get together with the relevant medical boards and start changing health systems way of dealing with patients needs, not just for thyroid"] - redheadaussie
- agree 100%. The problem is the system is in place. Kind of hoped thyroid month would develop into something- good luck. Sometimes its better to create a new 'system' than to correct an old one. And its hard to motivate people (near impossible) for free to do things that even effect them directly. No one can get things done on an individual basis. There is proof that there is power in numbers - that part of how lobbying works. Which means you need people to join something. Anbd that is usually not for free. People will pay $45,000 US $ (a lot!) for an SUV automobile, but not $5 for a worthy cause. Makes no sense to me.
There is a small group here that started there own health insurance with several small clinics - its not for hospitalization, but for other clinic visits. They do what they want, not what a big insurance company tells them to do. The big insurance companies are really what wrecked it for everyone's health - well, in addition to doctors egos.
Oh - suing - a good way to jack up prices even more.
Red, that was just excellent, what a great post ! And great words from your doctor for all of us. You're an inspiring kinda gal.
Good ideas and thoughts, every one of you. I so agree that it's not about money, it's about patient advocacy, it's about how to facilitate and if necessary, force the system to change. This forum is a powerful first step...what in the world would we do if we didn't know what others are going through and what they've done about it? I absolutely believe that old adage: Strength United Is Stronger. The information I've gotten here on the forum has saved me so much time. Since I am a relative newbie here, I am wondering if there is a part of the site I don't know about where links are posted to websites or articles that participants find to be valuable, categorized by topic? Our own little WIKI library. For instance, Stella spent a HUGE amount of time for me and gave links to information that I'm sure will be beneficial to me. I hope others will see those links too, but they'll have to wade through my stuff and I doubt many will. This knowledge needs to be shared. I have reams of paper in my office of scientific articles I've printed out for study that I've found, and that have helped me. I no longer know the links, but I would have registered them had I known where to do it. It's a winding path to get into the European medical journals and reports from clinical trials, where a lot of the more interesting information lies. There are other links I've stored on my computer. Someone on the forum told me about Dr. Aram's book, which helped to pull all the random knowledge I'd gained into focus. Does everybody know about this book ? I get the feeling from some of the posts that they don't. Saying something is interesting to read is different than endorsing it.
I'm off to bed, praying for sleep ! Any thoughts? Any other good ideas for how best to advocate? Any links to established thyroid patient advocacy groups? Any plans for going to DC and appearing before Congress with reams of paper representing our stories? I this economic climate, our struggle is going to be that much tougher, so I guess we need to be that way too.
I don't think LazyMoose has his own clinic (if he does, I'm going to commute to northern MN for my thyroid treatment). I think he was talking about a group that started their own health insurance company with a few small clinics... It's an interesting concept.
["There is a small group here that started there own health insurance with several small clinics"]
When I mentioned 'here' in my quote above, I meant Minnesota, not this forum. I read about this 'self insured group' in our main news paper. Its based in our capitol, St Paul. I have no experience as a patient there, but I just thought its a great idea and hope that it spreads to other areas.
Its truly amassing to me that this state, with the Mayo clinic here on the south side, has no better health care than other states. The majority of doctors around here treat Hashimoto with only T4 meds per TSH values. Thats why I was still sick 10 years after diagnosis. Thyroid really is not that hard to understand, but these docs are unwilling to change and will not listen even when presented with the facts. Erks me.
"Erks", now THERE's a delicate choice of words ! Spoken like a true gentleman, I should have known! :- )
Yes, we'd all maybe be making the trek to Minnesota, despite all that record snow! Has anyone had first-hand experience w/ Dr. Riddha Arem's thyroid clinic in Houston? My sister, who lives in Houston, has Hashi's but has a different doctor she likes. She had a horrible time both mentally and physically before she was diagnosed, and didn't even approach getting better until she went wheat/gluten free for a year.. But her hypo friend there, who was not getting better, changed to Dr. Arem and then did. She loves him, and his protocol is based on T3/T4. I'm starting to think I should make a pilgrimage. His book has helped me a lot. (bonus: no snow)
It IS astonishing that in the Great State of Mayo, doctors aren't more progressive. Here we have USC and UCLA and Cedars-Sinai and St. John's, and a little further south, Loma Linda....and yet, ziilch. My PCP has now suggested Dr. Peter Singer at USC, but when I researched him online I found he had recently given an interview to the LA Times in which he said he thought the hyperthyroid state felt akin to what it feels like when one falls in love ! RILLY? He's also a past president of the National Thyroid Association, which instead of engendering respect gives me the willies. Sad, that.
What do you think is at stake for the doctors? What could possibly possess a doctor to ignore symptoms ? They diagnosed successfully by observing symptoms as far back as 1886, I believe. More of the old and famous American mind/ body split?
I have also read of clinics or practices formed by groups of doctors and patients as well. I think it's almost like a subscription service...the doctors form a group and the patients agree to pay "X" per year to fund it. No insurance is accepted. As LM said, no hospitalization though, and so then what , in case of God Forbid?
Yes, it's sadly true, and thank you for bringing it up. I was commenting on another post yesterday about the lack of common knowledge of the connection between lack of thyroid hormone balance and disfunction of the synaptic response in the brain that has to do w/ the ability to transfer and utilize seratonin. Lack of seratonin is a major cause of depression. When I was fighting to be diagnosed and was sent to a psychiatrist and poisoned by ineffective and detrimental drugs, I nearly succeeded in killing myself in despair. I was told for a long time that there was nothing wrong w/ my thyroid because of my historically low TSH, but w/ every hypo symptom in spades. Having done the research, I finally demanded to be put on T3 against my doctor's wishes. It took away my depression in 3 days. As a bonus, my symptoms improved as well.
It should also be common knowledge that lack of seratonin can lead to panic attacks that drugs won't help. And that the chemical composition of alcohol is one thing that can temporarily fill the synaptic gap in place of the thyroid process, which is why so many self-medicate with alcohol. Of course, alcohol abuse is a fine line to walk, creates it's own health problems, and ultimately creates depression on it's own. I wonder how many sad alcoholics wander the streets or drink alone, who should be treated for a malfunctioning thyroid process.
And the correlation of genetically-based auto immune disorder and thyroid problems is given very little weight as well. You are right, they now suspect ADD to be auto-immune based. Reynaud's, diabetes, Depuyten's, Hashi's, gout. The most current research I've read says that it is now suspected that in one family/gene pool, auto-immune disorders can manifest in many different ways, from one defective gene. So doctors should be paying more attention to all the auto-immune manifestations in family history, not just a history of thyroid problems. If the gene doesn't create the disfunction, it can definitely create a weakness that can predispose....and perhaps explain the "non-normative" labs some of us have.
Thank you so much for your compassionate post, sandsoftime.
"What could possibly possess a doctor to ignore symptoms ?"
Here is a thought - I think they use lab ranges as a way to save their a$$. They can just say you are in range - and that would hold up in a court of law..yes to bad.. And as an excuse not to really learn. Technology makes people lazy.
The small group 'insurance' I mentioned is to be used with a high deductible hospitalization available from any insurance company.
This state had something similar for individuals and the self employed that sprawled from the 80's into the 90's - it grew within Minnesota and of course the board of directors got greedy. It was purchased by a big insurance company around '99. They bought their afordable competition and absorbed it, wrecked it! Was great while it lasted, almost half price back then.
Your explorations have touched me personally having lost a son to ADD and depression which I suspect was thyroid - if only I had the internet back then.
My cousin was diagnosed with genetic hypothyroidism. I have had underlying symptoms since a child. I had a test and it was in the normal range - what is that!!!!
When I had my son I had toxemia and gestational diabetes - must research this concerning thyroid.
He was slow with teething - had dry skin - asthma - slow thought process but above average intelligence- diagnosed with ADD went on to something similar to schizophrenia - but not the norm symptoms???? I an't remember anyone testing his thyroid and I had him under a pediatrician etc etc and etc - seems that every other avenue was checked but his thyroid.
My concern now is my grandson who is tired all of the time - worse than me - and his concentration isn't good.
The problem is he is going to have a thyroid test and it will probably be in the normal range. I am going to run this past my doc but I bet he will be skeptical - hope not.
Are you familiar with the term "discrimination values"? A discrimination value is the point in a test result where medical intervention is "required".
My husband recently had a CT. It showed that two of his arteries were "less than 50% blocked".
We saw our PCP, who had a copy of the report.
"Wow," he said, "50% blocked, thatis not good".
I pointed out that it said "less than 50%" and could mean anything form 1-49%. He said, "Oh, no, no, that means it's really close to 50% blockage."
Mental note to research this. So, I called the imaging center and after initially being told "We don't have anyone here who talks to patients; you'll have to call your doctor." (They really said that to me! I thought it was kind of funny, because when we were there, the employees talked to us. LOL)) I said that I had already asked my doctor, and he wasn't able to answer my question. They put me through to a tech, and she said she didn't know, either. I asked her to fire up the CT on the screen, which she did and told me the blockage was about 30% in one artery and 10% in the other. A far cry from 50%...but, like pulling hen's teeth to get this info.
50% is the discrimination value; it's where medical intervention is required, so the report didn't have to be any more specific than that. This test cost us about $2,000...hmmm...you'd think they could have been a little more precise for the money. Yep, they're covering their butts.
Obviously, my PCP had no idea what this meant (he does now).
I manage people's money. I wish I could tell them that their stock portfolio had appeciated "less than 50%" in the past year. Nope, the SEC would be on our butts like white on rice. So, apparently, our money is more important and has to be reported more precisely than our health.
I didn't want to go here again because it is so painful but it is an important subject for women beginning a family and awareness. I believe docs do their best but there is not a lot of awareness of thyroid issues. Education rather than suing is what I'd like to see.
This is an article I found that justifies my fears that my son may have had problems from my undiagnosed thyroid issues and which were hereditary - a low lying problem that was hard to pick up. Who doesn't have times of being tired - cold - forgetful?
The Effects of Hypothyroidism in Pregnancy
Hypothyroidism is the medical term used to describe an abnormally low level of thyroid hormone. Low levels of thyroid hormone result in a slowed-down metabolism and may result in such symptoms as fatigue, weight gain and decreased ability to withstand cold temperatures. In addition to the symptoms she may experience, a pregnant woman with hypothyroidism may be at increased risk for several complications.
High Blood Pressure and Pre-eclampsia
Gestational hypertension is the term used to describe elevated blood pressure during pregnancy. It is associated with several conditions. An especially concerning one is pre-eclampsia, in which a pregnant woman has protein in her urine and high blood pressure. Drs. Phyllis August and Baha Sibai, writing in the online medical reference UpToDate, report that pre-eclampsia may be categorized as mild or severe. Severe pre-eclampsia includes potentially life-threatening complications to the mother and the fetus, such as stroke, severe growth restriction of the fetus and dangerously high blood pressure. A 1993 study investigated the potential link between hypothyroidism and high blood pressure during pregnancy by studying two groups of women. One group consisted of 45 pregnant women with subclinical hypothyroidism. Their levels of the thyroid hormone T4 were normal, but their levels of thyroid stimulating hormone, or TSH, were abnormally high. The second group in this study consisted of 23 pregnant women with overt hypothyroidism--that is, low levels of the thyroid hormone T4 as well as high levels of TSH. This study of 68 women found that rates of pre-eclampsia in both groups were higher than within the general population. This suggests that hypothyroidism--in either its overt or subclinical form--may increase the risk for pregnant women to develop both high blood pressure and the associated, potentially serious, condition of pre-eclampsia.
Hypothyroidism Fact Sheet Get The Facts On Hypothyroidism The Causes, Preventions & Treatment BodyAndSoul.com.au/Hypothyroidism
Very Preterm Birth
Preterm birth is defined as the birth of a baby before the 37th week of pregnancy, or gestation. A "very preterm birth" is defined as the birth of a baby before 32 weeks of gestation. A study published in 2005 in the journal Thyroid looked at pregnant women who gave birth early, compared to women who delivered their babies after 37 weeks of pregnancy. The authors of the study found that women with high levels of TSH--indicating either subclinical or overt hypothyroidism--were much more likely have a very preterm delivery. This suggests that hypothyroidism is a risk factor for very early delivery of the baby, which can have serious and long-term implications to the baby.
Cognitive and Psychomotor Impairment
The potential impact of subclinical or overt hypothyroidism is not limited to the pregnancy itself, or even to the period directly around the birth of the baby. According to at least two studies, a mother's hypothyroid condition may impact her child's neurologic development years later. One study, published in the journal Clinical Endocrinology in February 1999, found that 10-month-old infants of mothers with hypothyroidism had significantly lower scores on certain psychomotor development tests, indicating that the mothers' low levels of thyroid hormone, even early in the pregnancy, still had an impact months later. A second study was published in August 1999 in the New England Journal of Medicine. This study looked at older children, who were 7 to 9 years old. Similarly to the study of infants, the authors of this study found that low thyroid hormone levels during pregnancy had an impact long after the child was born. The children in this study were found to have decreased IQ scores compared to children whose mothers had normal thyroid hormone levels during pregnancy.
Dr. Len Kliman Obstetrician and Gynaecologist Located at Epworth Freemasons www.DrLenKliman.com.au
TAFE Child Care Courses Get TAFE qualified Study now - pay as you earn! www.seeklearning.com.au
Expecting a new child? Ideas to help you remain fit and healthy for the whole 9 months Huggies.com.au
3D and 4D Baby Ultrasound Female Sonographer,Latest Equipment Melbournes Best 3D Baby Ultrasounds www.4dbaby.com.au
• "Obstetrics and Gynecology"; Perinatal Outcome in Hypothyroid Pregnancies; A.S. Leung et. al.; March 1993
• "Thyroid"; The Thyroid and Pregnancy: A Novel Risk Factor for Very Preterm Delivery; A. Stagnaro-Green et. al.; April 2005
• "Clinical Endocrinology"; Low Maternal Free Thyroxine Concentrations During Early Pregnancy Are Associated With Impaired Psychomotor Development in Infancy; V. J. Pop et. al.; February 1999
• "New England Journal of Medicine"; Maternal Thyroid Deficiency During Pregnancy and Subsequent Neuropsychological Development of the Child; J. E. Haddow; August 1999
• "UpToDate"; Denise S. Basow; 2010
pregnant #3 image by Adam Borkowski from Fotolia.com
About this Author
Shira Goldenholz has been writing since 2001. She has edited a neurosciences coursebook and co-authored an article published in the "Journal of Child Neurology." She has contributed to a report on children's mental health and has written for an autism website. She holds a medical degree from the University of Wisconsin-Madison and a Master in Public Health from Boston University.
Article reviewed by Eric Lochridge
Last updated on: 06/10/10
Thank you for sharing your loss with us. I am sure there are many cyber-displays of virtual affection and support surrounding and protecting you, sent from the hearts of those in our forum. I hope you will find the energy and the information to fight for yourself, for your grandson, and for the memory of your son. By doing so, you also do it for us. Thank you for publishing your valuable research. The source material seems scientifically well-based, and I have found I have more success with my doctor when I give her copies of things I have found in Medical journals and cite them in reference to myself, as opposed to someone's opinion on a thyroid-issues website. I wish women of childbearing age and others in your situation could have access to this article, BUT here it is buried in a thread about legal action, which I hoped would provoke just this kind of discussion. (we need WIKI library on the forum)
@LM...yep, I think the same thing about the labs. Nobody wants to be held accountable.What to do ?
The FDA is ultimately responsible for allowing the +/- 10% strength variations in our medications. I don't understand why this is allowable at all. Is everyone aware of the quality control issue at Mylan labs last July, where the FDA stepped in because of a whistleblower and found that the employees on the line were bypassing the quality control safeguard warning system w/ the complicity of their supervisors? Many drugs were affected. They paid a fine, big whup. Who here knows about the different generic labs : Mylan, Paddock, King . Are their others? Does one have a better reputation than the rest? Please tell me that all of you who take generics know that you should have your doctor request a particular lab on your prescription and make your pharmacist fill from that lab every time. There are not only variations between batches, but also variations between drugs produced by different labs....not only strengths but also types of fillers, which can be more or less drug-binding. For this reason, CONSISTENCY of dose, it's best to not only get your meds form one lab source, but also to order them 3 months at a time if possible so that they come from the same batch.
@goolarra..."discrimination value" GOOD to know ! Thanks for sharing that one. I've received reports like your husband's myself and will certainly question the reports in the future. Just bloody astonishing.
I need sleep, but want to introduce the subject of the diagnosis of Alzheimer's disease and the possible correlation w/ hypothyroidism in the elderly. Thoughts? I'll list my own manana. Wish me some zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzs !
Thanks and blessings to all, y'all an impressive bunch !
My mother had both. Unfortunately, when she was diagnosed hypo, I was not yet hypo, myself, and knew very little about the condition. However, I have reflected on it a fair amount in retrospect.
I have always wondered if my mother was, indeed, hypo. If she was, she was asymptomatic. As you know, there is no way to diagnose Alzheimer's, except by process of elimination. One of the things they test to eliminate is thyroid (TSH, only, I'm quite sure).
Of all the tests they ran on my mother, thyroid was all that was off. So, they were all ecstatic...they'd found it! She didn't have Alzheimer's at all; she was just hypthyroid They started her on levo and said that in six weeks, she'd be just fine. This didn't sit well with me right from the beginning...I had the feeling they just wanted to provide some hope, and would have latched onto anything in her labs the slightest bit off so that they didn't have to send her away with a diagnosis of Alzheimer's. At that time, there was no medication available for Alzheimer's. When Aricept came out, they finally diagnosed her Alzheimer's. Hope had been provided in a new pill!
The thyroid meds never had one iota of effect on her condition. Neither did the Aricept. She ultimately died of Alzheimer's.
There will always be some variation between batches, even if the med came from the same manufacturing plant. I am just happy to to be able to get my Erfa natural thyroid med from Canada. Pigs will always be different.
To be prepared, I try to make sure I have at least one month supply left for back up before trying a new supply / bottle.
On the rare occasion that I drive though pig farm country, they don't smell so bad now; I have a greater appreciation for the smelly critters, there not just bacon anymore!
@LM.....Heehee ! And also, as Homer would say..."MMmmmm, B-a-a-a-c-o-n." I wonder if it would be a good idea to introduce the new batch as every other day w/ the original, to make it easier on your body ? I'm trying to balance T4/T3, seems not to be the usual problem. Do you know if it's less expensive to get brand Cytomel from Canada? That's where it's manufactured.
@goolarra..lots to say, still sick. Soon.
Is it possible her Hypo condition caused Alzheimer's? There is also the nutrition factor and chemicals that might predispose someone to Alzheimer's disease - it's really horrible with the awareness coming and going. Sorry your mum had this.
"Do you know if it's less expensive to get brand Cytomel from Canada? "
- I never thought about it. Goggle Universal Drug or Northwest Pharmacy - they are both Legit, not all on line Pharmas are. All Canadian online Pharmas have huge price variations, you need to shop, and make sure they are legit at the same time.
I remember Cytomel is costly. Back when I was on it, my Rx would not cover any of it.
Who knows? It's possible, but I kind of doubt it. As I said, I was not tuned in to hypo back then, and I never paid any attention to actual lab numbers, so I don't know to what extent she was supposedly hypo. She had no symptoms, however, so I can only assume she was very mildly hypo. In fact, you just nudged my memory some more. After going on levo, she dropped a bunch of weight and complained of frequent diarrhea. I wonder if she was actually overmedicated and hyper... I really saw the hypo diagnosis as grasping at straws. They didn't want to send her away doing nothing, so they came up with what they could and treated it.
My mother's nutrition was always good (as defined by the times) and her lifestyle/occupation/geographical location didn't lend themselves to chemical exposure.
Yeah, it's not a pretty disease. It's especially difficult in the early stages when the person is still very aware of her failing brain. It was 11 years between diagnosis (not onset of symptoms) and when she died.
One of the things I have been looking at is chemical sensitivity or poisoning
I have wondered about old carpet underlay - foam mattresses - plastics
and what about deteriorating rubber - what was lino made from, and there is compound board.
I searched: Brominated Flame Retardants PBDEs thyroid endocrine
but the full article is at sciencedirect - the www address is too long to post.
Brominated Flame Retardants. PBDEs, which are flame retardants widely used in foams and other plastics, were detected in dust samples with a concentration distribution similar to the carcinogenic PAHs, benzo[a]pyrene, and benz- [a]anthracene (Figure 2), with 90th percentile concentrations ranging from 0.7 to 4.1 µg/g dust. We targeted tetra- and pentabrominated BDEs, which originate from polyurethane foams. PCBs, which have a similar mechanism of endocrine toxicity to PBDEs, were also detected in air and dust samples but at somewhat lower concentrations (Figure 2).
Funny coming across this, the desire has been on my mind (though I won't).
In my 20's I made 2 appt's w/doctors regarding a lump in my throat. Both were cancelled and moved forward (three months). One particularly hysterical day I went to the ER just So I could finally be seen only to be told my wild mood swings, anger and depression had NOTHING to do with the swelling on my throat.
Two years later, another insurance plan, Kaiser Permanente did a biopsy and decided that half my thyroid should be removed. I was warned I was possibly precancerous. No one did a simple TSH test, and I didn't know to ask.
Two years after that, with no insurance, in another state, the free mental health services psychiatrist ran a full panel and then made me see an endocrinologist to explain to me I had Hashimoto's Thyroiditis. Not to be bitter, but a psychotic episode accompanied with weight loss, the worst three years of my life, losing my career, all could have been avoided had I been properly treated. Now I am in a remote town with few jobs, none of which offer insurance. I am almost 40, how to start fresh??
While I won't sue, I wish I could find a way to help others before they end up in a dead end over something that could be managed much easier.
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