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Hashimoto's patients, are you TH1 or TH2 dominant?
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Hashimoto's patients, are you TH1 or TH2 dominant?

Hashi patients, do you know if you are TH1 or TH2 dominant? I'm TH2 dominant. Coffee and green tea make my neck swell. I've given up caffeine and I take my Echinacea and Golden Seal each day and the flareups are gone. (Well, except when I eat chocolate). Which are you? Do you know if what you're eating could be causing auto-immune flareups?

Below is a part of the TH1/TH2 transcript taken from a video by Dr. Geronimo. Here's Dr. Geronimo's website:
http://www.powaychiro.com

I don't have enough room to post the entire transcript.To read the full transcript see my journal entry below:
http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/182243/Hashi-patients--Are-you-TH1-or-TH2-dominant

:) Tamra

"An autoimmune condition occurs when one branch of the immune system over dominates another branch. This is called an either a Th1 or Th2 dominance. A dominant TH1 response means that the natural killer cells and cytotoxic t cells are responsible for attacking the body, while a TH2 dominance indicates that your bcells and antibodies are mounting the attack. A blood test is needed to find out which branch is dominant. Thus to treat an autoimmune disease, it is critical to find the dominant branch and to balance the seesaw by stimulating the other branch. For example, if a patient’s autoimmune disease was TH1 dominant, treating it would require that we strengthen the Th2 side to balance out the immune system. If the patient were Th2 dominant, we would stimulate the Th1 side to regain balance. It’s a pretty simple solution, but so many people suffer needlessly because the immune system has been ignored, until now.

This is where clinical nutrition and natural medicine comes into play. It is well documented in clinical research that Th1 stimulants are Echinacea, maitake mushrooms and golden seal to name a few. Th2 stimulators are caffeine, green tea, and grape seed extract. So in the example I gave in the previous slide, if a patient with an under functioning thyroid is TH1 dominant, then I would prescribe supplements containing caffeine, green tea, and grape seed extract to stimulate the TH2 side to regain balance. If they were TH2 dominant, then Echinacea, mushrooms, and golden seal would balance out their immune system. Since most people with autoimmune conditions have no idea which branch of their immune system is dominant, they can actually make their condition worse by taking over the counter immune boosters. Lets say for example you were Th1 dominant and you catch a cold. A friend tells you that Echinacea helped them so you take it yourself. Unknowingly you would be flaring up your already dominant Th1 response and cause even more destruction to your thyroid gland."

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Never even heard of a TH1 or TH2 dominant..Interesting, will have that checked with next bloods:)
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Very interesting.  Can my PCP test that or is this something special that my doc and lab can't do?
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219241_tn?1357815389
Interesting article, but what about if you no longer have a thyroid? I am a Hashi's with less antibodies after the surgery, but still have them...the only thing I find that flares me up is being over heated, like in summer, having an infection, or my knee becomes inflammed, or stress. Never really noticed from taking anything that anything happens.
Good post though, I am about to buy the book anyway just to see what they are on about.
Cheers!
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Good question. I don't know if your GP will run these tests. My chiropractor is running them for me. He's also testing my adrenals and treating my gut/yeast problem by detoxing my gut on a 24 day  cleanse. I've had Hashi friends who've done this with great results, flat stomachs and no more stomach pains.

Most doctors treat symptoms and levels and give us drugs. They don't look for the underlying auto-immune cause, so I don't know if they will run these tests, but you can certainly ask.

Dr. Geronimo can order these tests. If you go to his website, I believe he has contact info.  

I found my doctor by going to Dr. K's website at www.thyroidbook.com and typing my city. He sent me a reference.  

:) Tamra
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Even if you no longer have a thyroid, you still can have the leaky gut that caused all this in the first place.  You can still have these antibodies attacking you and you might benefit from getting to the root of the cause. I'm glad you're buying the book. It explains so much.

:) Tamra
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Food for thought..bwaaaaah haa haaa.. I make a little joke!  I am trying hard to get to the root of the cause, but without much success! I ordered the book, and will get my US friend to ship it to me with my Care Package. (Still works out cheaper than just getting them to ship one book!)
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Well I'm stuffed lol...I'm allergic to mushies and Echinacea (which is the bark of a tree).

So Tammy...you are TH2 dominant which is otherwsie known as humoral immunity.
This refers to immunity to infection created by proteins termed antibodies, often referred to as "B" cells.

Doesnt make much sense to me considering we all have antibodies.

To really 'get into this' you would have to know molecullar science inside out and know what you are doing as you could destroy or attack cells that you basically need.
I might add that Green Tea may be an antioxident but not good for those with Diabetes as it contains a lot of sugar.
YES ...Sugar.


This is from a place on the Net that I have access to......

These two different methods exist by which the body fights infections. While cellular immunity (Th1) directs Natural Killer T-cells and macrophages to attack abnormal cells and microorganisms at sites of infection inside the cells, humoral immunity (Th2) results in the production of antibodies used to neutralize foreign invaders and substances outside of the cells.

In many cases, an infection is fought with both arms of the immune system.
At other times predominantly one is needed to control an infection. A healthy immune system is both balanced and dynamic: it should be balanced between Th1 and Th2 activity, switching back and forth between the two as needed. This allows for a quick eradication of a threat and then a return to balance before responding to the next threat. The inability to respond adequately with a Th1 response can result in chronic infection and cancer; an overactive Th2 response can contribute to allergies, various syndromes and play a role in autoimmune disease.
In end stage illnesses, both arms of the immune system fail.

Antibodies and Autoimmune Diseases are also hereditary and not always from a 'leaky gut'.

Sorry....but I have seen so many Docs online that claim to do this, that and the other and all they do is ..get rich.

To start with...its not healthy doing a detox (regardless of what others think) as you are flushing not only the bad toxins and germs but also the good ones.
So many people think detox is the answer to everything.
And most people end up with infections after detox as their bodies do not have the natural body germs to fight the infection.

Detox was once a regular thing here in Australia but not anymore.

I tend to be cautious with the statements that your Doctor friend has made Tamra...sorry :(



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219241_tn?1357815389
I have to agree on the detox issue. Bit like colonic irrigation. Makes the person think they are doing a great thing, but in fact can make them worse! We have flora in our gut that we need!

I am always an observer in many things. I am hearing Tamra but will buy the book and decide from there. I really think many docs jump on the bandwagon and try to convince many people that they really need their product, etc. I still have issues with doctors not being able to give advice on the no thyroid issue. I have asked, but all the research is for those with thyroids still intact. Obviously us poor surgical and/or RAI's or birth defect non-thyroidians don't get a look in!

Having been an investigator for many years, I take it all in my stride. I never believe anything till I have all the facts and research put together.
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Oh..you made a boo-boo..Echinacea is a purple flower..not a tree! In Oregon it is a really popular plant as a roadside plant and in home gardens. Very hardy!
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Hello

I am OK with organic coffee without milk - and can have a block of organic 72% or higher cocoa content chocolate without any problems, if done once in a while.  Mushrooms, soya, Golden Seal,  Echinacea and gluten products get me to flare up - my throat starts to feel tight swollen and have a tingling feeling and I seem to get urinary tracts infections. Oddly I am the same with Vitamin D.  I was givena Vitamin D and Calcium combination by my Endo and two days later found to have a very sore throat, body aches and my body felt hot - odd and do not understand why at all. Am told these cause inflamation (inflammation) in my case.  I am OK with Ezekiel bread (not always able to find it here in Hong Kong and when you do they cost between 50 and 75 Hong Kong Dollars  that would be  6-9 USD per loaf ) needless to say you eat it sparingly LOL.  I have introduced coconut oil each day and have let go of all dairy products.  A slice of piping hot Ezekiel bread toast and a dollop of Coconut oil is my treat.  I make my own nut butters and once made store them in the freezer and that way have organic Peanut, Almond and other butters - made with Cocount oil - this way we prevent the mold as they all are a good source of protein.  I do seem to be OK with the Peantus as I buy organic nuts in their shell - deshell them - soak them overnight - dry and roast them then make the butter - this way I do not have any mold impact from the peanuts.  Hey all of this sounds sooooo tough to do but we are blessed as we can eat daily when many have nothing or very little in many parts of the world.  Each day I work hard to remain positive and to adopt a great attitude as I express my gratitude even with all the crappy things around this condition - as in Africa I have sat next to a number of people dying of aids and when I went into their kitchen to see what I could cook up for them to eat when soooo weak (volunteering work)- in more than one house all I could find was a couple of grains of rice in an old bashed up cake tin.

Wishing you only the best
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I'm going to a doctor here who will monitor my detox. Some of my Hashi friends over at *****  have done this detox with great results - stomach swelling gone down and no more stomach pain.

I understand that many Hashi cases are hereditary. My mom and aunt have it. We believe my grandma, who had her thyroid removed 40 years ago, had it, too.

The question is: Is the thyroid disease hereditary, or the leaky gut which lead to the thyroid disease hereditary?

I'm Italian. I grew up eating bread with each meal and loads of pasta. My family eats way more gluten than most. And LOTS of sweets! Italian cheesecake, pizelles, canolis, Italian cookies of all kinds. You name it.

I am going to give this gut detox a try. I'm at wits end and want to be healthy again. I will let you know in the next coming weeks how all goes. So far, the gluten suggestion has helped because I've had to lower my thyroid meds.

:) Tamra
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You are a gem for sharing your eating tips. I will have to look for the organic decaf next time I'm at whole foods. What are your thoughts on natural peanut butter? The kind you have to stir.

:) Tamra
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You are right Redhead ,,I apologise.
I was thinking of the 'root' of the plant that looks like the bark of a tree and cultivated can grow to 1,2 metres in height.There are also 9 varietys of Echinacea.
Here is the write up about it.....

Safety/Precautions  
•Although toxicological information about Echinacea based products is scarce, the plant is considered to be safe when taken internally.
•Preliminary testing undertaken in pregnant women did not reveal any birth defects in the children born to mothers who used this plant during various stages of gestation. Nevertheless, since only one clinical trial evaluating Echinacea during pregnancy has been conducted, taking Echinacea products during the first trimester of pregnancy should be done only under professional supervision and excessive use should be avoided.
•Patients allergic to ragweed or other members of the Composite or Daisy family, such as Marigold, Arnica or Chamomile, may show cross sensitization (allergies) to Echinacea products.
•Injectable preparations were available in Europe, but are now banned in Germany and other countries due to the potential risk of anaphylactic shock or adverse drug reactions in sensitive individuals.
•It has been suggested that Echinacea preparations could be toxic to the liver, but no clinical evidence exists to support this. •The German Commission E monograph on Echinacea has contraindicated its use in patients suffering from HIV infection or autoimmune diseases such as lupus or rheumatoid arthritis, although some researchers believe that this statement is either theoretical or poorly substantiated. More clinical research on human subjects is needed before any conclusions can be drawn.
•Although the Commission E monograph on Echinacea mentions that continuous treatment with Echinacea products should not exceed 8 weeks. This statement is not related to potential toxicity, but rather to the possibility that the plant’s effectiveness may wane with time, rendering it less effective.
•The possible herb-drug interactions involving Echinacea are for the most part unknown, although patients with HIV should consult their physician prior to taking any Echinacea product, as this may interfere with conventional antiviral therapy.
•Echinacea preparations may theoretically reduce the efficacy of certain medications, such as cyclosporine, tacrolimus and corticosteroids, for example.
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I cant comment on Hashi's and hereditary but Graves is usually hereditary and not from leaky gut.
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Lila's post was so sweet yet so bitterly true wasn't it? Good for us all to remember that we are all so blessed in our afflictions compaired to many others in our world who don't have anything to even consider eating. Makes me cry! What amazing people with such hearts I have met on this site. So chins up people and lets all count our blessings each day. As far as peanuts go (even organic) I think the fungus is in there. I'd steer clear. Try the organic almond or cashew butter!
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Hello Smilerdeb.  You bring up some very valid and interesting points.  I would love to clear up any skepticism that you may have.  Tamra asked for my permission to post the transcript of my videos on this site,so naturally I was intrigued with what people have to say about it.  Anyway you seem like a well educated woman and I respect your opinion.  If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to ask.  
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Yes, Lila's post was true. I am very blessed for my life, even though I still suffer from fatigue. There are worse things.

:) Tamra
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Hi Dr. G.
:) Tamra
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I still think Echinacea is a pretty flower.....if it does some people good, so be it! Only thing for me that works is Iron in liquid form, and calcium..the rest I just can't afford right now. Being on a low income precludes most of us from being able to be healthy. Have you seen the price in Aus for Echinacea tablets???

The air that I breathe is full of pollutants, the water I drink is contaminated with fluoride and chlorine. The 'organic' food I buy is grown right next to a freeway with pollutants landing on them and into the soil, I go to wash them and end up with more problems. I pee, and the tablets I take, turn fish into 3 headed monsters. ......bah....too much to think about!  We live, we die, end of story.

If I drop dead in the meantime, well then, I will no longer have any more health issues....LOL!
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LOL, you are too funny! I'd really like your take on the govt. run insurance care you get. I'm scared of what is to come in the US.

:) Tamra
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Hi to all

As far as I have read up and been told is that Hashi too is hereditary - I know that I am the my great gran, granny, mother and myself all had/have Hashi problems.  Perhaps some just did not know about the word Hashi at all - since I get to know more of the symptoms speaking to my mum back in South Africa on skype discovered that most of the symptoms I have for sure runs way back in my family.  I too would not do a pure detox week but rather sip detoxifying drinks inbetween whilst eating what is within my OK's.  I have substituted gluten with Coconut flower, make tea with crushed ginger, mint and freshly squeezed grapefruit juice - this helps to clear all the slush out of our liver where most toxins are held.  I try to follow a 4 day rotation diet and keep note of a reaction - my nose starts running within seconds after I have had something to eat that my body reacts to.  Coconut the old fruit brown with hair on is a good source of protein and has number of health benifits for Hashi, is a natural parasite killer, clears the liver, prevents inflamation (inflammation) of the urinary tract, prevents any cravings - loads of information on the net.  Sipping Cinnamon tea inbetween meals also is very good.  Use organic stick cinnamon and simmer in a glass container for about 10 to 15 minutes.  I have done away with all forms of cooking pots and plastic containers and only make use of glass and no microwave cooked foods or drinks as well.  Redheadaussie I really had soooo much fun reading your comments and it really made me laugh sooooo much.

Blessings to all and I looooooove and enjoy learning from all.
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It was interesting to see you post here as this is the only post that you have posted.
As you realise, we all here are very different in our mollecular biology and also DNA.
I heard read and researched privately (having a stepson who is a dietician and a health practitioner here in Australia and after 3 years of discussions with him, am totally against detox.
I have looked at your website and it does promise a lot of things (of which I am sure you are capable of doing) but it isnt always that 'cut and dried', as you know and being the knowledgeable person you are,,,,you would know this to be true too.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and beliefs and even though I am am against detox as I know that we all need certain germs in our bodies to help fight protection...I would like to ask you how the body is able to fight infection if it doesnt have those germs?

In my case, my heart issues  (heart murmur, prolapse mitral and triscuspid valves)are not from toxins from foods, chemicals, germs, or hereditary.
My issues are from being born with Rheumatic Fever which you would know can and does most of the time cause heart murmurs.

I have my levels good and stable in regards to Graves Disease and yes, that one I did get from genetics (hereditary).

But what I would really like to know is... you state on your website that you can 'treat' certain conditions but that does not mean 'cure'.
In the case of someone with CP (Cerebral Palsy) this is where there is muscle wastage, continuous UTI's, aching joints,etc.
As you would already know, this is a gentic birth defect and cannot be cured.
MS (muliple Schlerosis) is also a disease that can be treated but not cured as with many other deseases.
Hypothyroidism can be treated but Hashimoto's cannot be cured.

I am in no means trying to discredit your work or your website but when someone goes through what many go through here...Graves Disease, Hyperthyroidism, Hashimotos, Hypothyroidism...then I believe that it must be stated clearly on your website that "you can help treat but not cure",

There was a stage back 2 years ago that if someone had asked me if I wanted to win the Lotto or get rid of Graves, I would gladly have taken the latter due to the debilitating disease it is and there are others here who would gladly try 'anything' to get well.
But with my own research, the 'working with a brilliant Doctor' and my own common sense. I now live a good life with stable levels.

In regards to "detox", as I said before ...in Australia a few years back, it was regarded as the 'be all and end all'...the MAGIC cure so to speak.
This was then found to be incorrect.
It was found that patients would have infection after infection, especially with a bowel detox and that it flushed out the bacteria that actually fights infection.

As I said earlier in this posting,.....I have my own beliefs and am open to discussions and opinions of others but am also 'wary' of "miracle cures" so to speak.

Personally myself, I very rarely touch the traditional western medicine unelss I really have too and check out each vitamin and supplement that I think may be beneficail to me.
But most importantly of all......I tend to rely on the 'natural vitamins' of fresh vegeatbles, minerals etc and steer clear of commercialised products as I have seen so many sport and health food stores promoting just about anything they can.
I have also looked into foods that we should be eating, going by our blood groups.
That is something I have been looking at for a while but am undecided as of yet about it.

I tend to research before I 'jump' so to speak.
But I have worked with patients with Spina Bifida, MS, Downs Syndrome, ABI, Autism etc and we both know that these conditions cannot be reversed either by your way of treatment or by western medicine.

But I would like to thank you for your time on coming to this site.


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wow, nice post and so imformative. This took me a while to read along with Tamra journal.

I think I may have to re-read it again - but I am missing a vital point n all this.

Hormones...

Although I agree - the immune system is very important and is ignored more than ever in modern society, my belief is the body MUST be looked at as a whole than picking it apart piece by piece and than showing one thing as the culprit.

Let's take soe thought on the basic biology of the body.

Everything starts out as a cell - plant or animal

A group of cells creates tissue

A group of tissue creates a particular organ ( think of that... all the different organs. all different cells to form that organ) The human body has 11 organ systems - Cardio - Resp-Digest-Skin-skeletal-musc-nervous-endocrine-lymphatic ( immune) - urinary and reproductive.

Group of organs create us - organism

Healthy - means all these levels are healthy - Ill - means opposite.

In my opinion, while the immune system is major in our overall health and to say - we are ill in there - fixing it - may not unlock the whole thing either. It has many things to look at there too.

I think the big thing in immune system for hypothyroidism or antibodies are the antigens which tell the body to "identify" -    us.

If the antigens are backfiring - or telling our body its not "self" identity - thats where things gets complicated and become invaders.

T cells are "trained"  to react to ONE particular antigen and turn into a cytotoxic T cell and multiply quickly.In return they start killing whole cells. They bind to "sick cells" and make it toxic causing rupture. Now other cells are called into battle.

B cell bind to the antigen and are the "watchers" - when bad cells are found - they multiply too and there job is to create an army of antibodies - takes about 10 days to creat the antibody attack in what I read. Antibodies fight the germ or antigen. BUT the B-cell is capable to "clone" into the bad ill cell too and store it in a memory bank for better words. If they have another situation with the bad cell again - they KNOW now to produce those antibodies ahead to kill that off. - Here is the IgA and IgG ( other IG) antibodies ( also TSI - TPOab and other autoimmune)  and the hormone outline of antibodies begin.

Here is where I totally agree the immune system needs to be protected before all this starts - but with the prescription drugs freely offered (far from just thyroid meds) and the soil - water food - everything has changes - our bodies are so complex with toxic cells that the hormones are now altered as well. - again not just thyroid but all hormones alter other hormones.

I agree about nurtition and changes - but hard mineral are heavily ignored in this day and age. Hard minerals are the back bone of this immune system and as we destroy them more in more - Echinacea isn't the cure now. I think it is more enhancement right now to support other things and my opinion is the hard mineral is essential for overall health - along with amino acids and proper diet.





I mean - you know this goes into thousands of things - like free radical damage - ph levels- Para-Sympathetic - Filteration -

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There is a lot to consider Stella and if you really look at it in the long term basis.
I tend to live for today and do also notice that people can want a 'cure' so bad that they become obsessed with the whole issue. I know because I was one of those people in the early stage of Graves. But my attitude has since changed. I still research but I do not read everything as 'gospel '.
Positivity would have to be one of the biggest healers in my books.
Yes, research by all means..... Learn all you can about your condition....... Try different things that you have thoroughly researched first...... But also take a look at the big picture.

Basically what I am trying to say is...... Just because someone believes in a certain religion, that does not mean you have to also.

It is very easy to get caught up in treatments that claim to 'fix'  the problem but be 100% sure first. sometimes the treatment can ' undo' all the good you have down up until now.
Tam... I hope you have researched 'Everything'  on this and if you decide to go ahead with it then let us know how you go but also research the side effects of detox as there are some and also make sure that you are also NOT flushing out medications in your bloodstream for your thyroid condition.
I too cut down my T4 med after a while because I found my intake of food was cut down and my body didn't need the higher dose. Just like drinking alcohol.......... If you drink on an empty sto
ach, you tend to get the effects of alcohol faster.
Anyway....... Good luck with it all and grea posting!

P.S
sorry if spelling is out but iPhone doesn't t like fat fingers lol    
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Deb and Stella,

This is an excellent discussion with many good points. The reason I"m trying this detox is because I have other Hashi friends who have done it with success. Here's the website of the doctor I'm using for the detox: http://www.drcharleswebb.com/doctor/chiropractor/8L/san-antonio-chiropractor/Contact-Us.htm

I will have to go to his office twice a week during the three month program so he can monitor my improvements. I will certainly ask him about the good vs bad bacteria. This is a viable point and I will definitely make sure I have a solid answer before moving forward.

:) Tamra
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I agree with you on the coconut. Thanks so much for sharing your tips. What about cast iron pans?

Here is a website with coconut bread. I  haven't made it yet. Hmmm. I think I'll go make it now. http://www.nourishingdays.com/?p=1000

:) Tamra
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Tam......here are a few things to look at whilst doing detox....
Hope it helps...

Negative side effects of detoxification

The downside of detoxification is that during the detoxification process, you may begin to feel some negative side effects. Headaches, sore muscles, cranky moods, insomnia and the general feeling of being physically weak are common during the first few days of the detoxification process. People who are coffee addicted may have stronger "pull out" effects, as usualy their PH Balance is not the best.

According to experts, these detoxification symptoms are but the normal reaction of the body to change. Note that when you undergo a detoxification process, you change your daily routine thus your body’s daily activities are altered. For instance, instead of eating a full western meal, you switch to some light meal with plenty of fibers. Your body will need to get used to lesser amount of food intakes that is why there are some people who are undergoing the detoxification process who feels lightheaded or a bit dizzy at times. If you start feeling dizzy and lightheaded, do not be alarmed. Give your body time to adjust to the changes. In a few days, you will start feeling a lot better.

Another common reaction to detoxification is anxiety and restlessness. In most cases, this condition could lead to insomnia or inability to sleep soundly. If you start feeling restless and cranky, don’t be alarmed. Contrary to what you might be thinking at the moment, you are not about to lose your mind or something. You must remember that the detoxification process has disturbed your system by extracting all pollutants in your body and this could have some temporary side effects. If you feel nervous and cranky, try taking a walk or doing some yoga exercises to calm yourself.

As you could a get a little bit moody, try to be alone during long detoxification treatments. Clean your mind and not only your body
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oh my, what a great thread, what a lot to reflect on and investigate further. thanks to all who've posted here so far for sharing your knowledge, experience and opinions.

Tamra I had never heard of Dr Geronimo, I'm reading Kharrazion's book now after you suggested it. I'm really starting to make some connections with the effects different foods are having on my through all this research and hearing from everyone else on here. Will look forward to following up on this additional information and perhaps hearing more from Dr G on here too!

Liya, your posts have inspired me to explore the dietary recommendations you shared in particular the whole coconut thing (particularly because mmm, I just love coconut anyway!) and can I just say massive respect to you for the rigour you're clearly applying to taking care of what you put into your body and for your gentle observations about how things are so much worse for many people and how it helps to focus on being thankful for what we have.

I'm thankful for this site and for all of you sharing.
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Hello to all

I have did a detox a while ago having apple the Grape fruit and apple juice then taking the Olive oil and Espom salts and yes it worked well but three days later ended up in hospital with severe pain and found that one of the stones got stuck in the bile duct.  That is why I now just do the fresh ginger and grapefruit cocktail three times a day - upon rising, during the day and last thing before I go to bed and I am beginning to lose the yellow tinge that I had to my skin - common for some to develop when they have symptoms of Hashi, Fyromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue and Epstein Barr or Cocsachie virus - I grew up in Swaziland where we most of our rivers as in Africa have a paracite called Bilharzia - when you contract this parasite you are bound to have symptoms that indicate Hashi and a few other things.  For that reason I also introduced the Coconut now up to 5 tablespoons a day - to do a parasite cleanse and to feed the liver - I also take Colon cleanse the powder that I drink twice a day as this eliminates from your colon the parasites that have died off so that you do not feel all sick and crappy from die off symptoms - if I notice the symptoms I take a dose of Epsom salts in the evening as late as possible and then rest the following day at home - the next day I feel much better.  

Tamra I was told that cast iron pots are also good to use - but I have just opted to use glass as to find cast iron here in Hong kong aint easy and to buy the French version of pots you need to be willing to pay about 3 to 5 thousand Hong Kong dollars for one pot.  

For me liya the best detox has been to adopt a healthier life style and to just cleanse my body as I go along.
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Would love to hear more about the book you are reading. It is not available in Hong Kong and would love to order it but Oh deary me now with all the problems around the Iceland Ash and the global impact do not know how long it will take to reach this part of the world.

Tamra and all I have also been taught that doing the fish yoga pose is very good for hashi people at it stimulates the thyroid which in turn stimulates the liver for better health.

Earlier on we discussed food and allergic reactions
Foods in their pure isolated form often triggers adverse reactions in people.  When not consumed in their pure form it makes them more digestible for some people - like milk may be a problem for many but yogurt is OK.  Some grains or legumes are a problem to some people but when you sprout them they are no problem.  Ezekiel bread is made from sprouted seeds and could be why many refer to it as an OK.  

The important things is for each of us to know what our particular bodies can handle which not.  What works for one may not work for another.  I do also know that many of us developed gut problems since we no longer include fermented foods into our diets as our grand parents or elders did.  It took me a long time but since I have introduced sauerkraut made by myself about a tablespoon per main meal - my gut slowly is much better.  We are told Cabbage is not good in raw form - fermenting it has undergone a change and therefore also is no longer in its purest form.  Adopting the new way of eating was a detox on its own as I have done this gradualy over a period of 7 months now as I needed to be able to still continue my work and my volunteering work - I did have die off symptoms - these were bad the first month - but now have learnt how to deal with the die off over weekends - doing a coffee enema once in two weeks also helps a lot as the coffee extracts a lot of toxins from the liver.  It worked for me and share it from that perspective as someone else it may not work for.  I had reached a stage where I was tired of paying thousands of dollars a month and feel like crap and not getting better so I thought hey Liya you can die or take the risk and the risk worked for me.

Together we will all make it as just look how much we have learnt from one another .

I feel blessed to have met all of you and each day express gratitude for my computer and that I can communicate through cyber space with people on this plante
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Hi  Smilerdeb, yes, I am new to this forum and this is only my second post.  Tamra emailed me and asked for my permission to post a copy of my video transcript on this blog.  Naturally I was intrigued to know how people would respond.  When I read your post I felt the need to reply because I wanted to clear up any misconceptions.  I respect your opinion and I am not here to belittle or impose my medical beliefs.  I come with an open mind to learn.    

First, I think your definition of a detox is different from mine.  On my website I define detox as cleansing the body of accumulated xenobiotics, excess biological compounds, and metabolites. The goal is to assist the liver in converting fat soluble chemicals into water soluble compounds so that they can be eliminated through the kidneys, skin or gall bladder.  The detox also includes a re-inocculation phase wherein pre and probiotics (beneficial bacteria) are introduced to help the GI tract and the immune system function better. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think your interpretation of my detox is to rid the body of germs.  That is not the case.  The detox I offer to my patients includes elimination/provocation diet.  I eliminate the gluten, dairy, eggs, soy, and corn for 3 weeks then I reintroduce one food group and challenge the body for a negative response.  If my patients are sensitive to any of these foods then they must refrain from eating these food groups to minimize immune flare-ups.  

You are correct in saying that currently there are no cures for autoimmune diseases.  Once a gene has expressed its phenotype, there is no way to reverse it.  What I offer to my patients is to minimize their symptoms so that they can still enjoy a fairly normal quality of life.  I can do this by modulating their immune system through lifestyle and dietary modifications in addition to nutritional supplements.  I find it ironic that the immune system is never treated in conventional medicine.

Anyway, I think this a great site and I want to thank Tamra for posting the transcript from my video.  
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Thanks for posting......
No I dont regards detox as 'getting rid of germs'.
I feel it gets rid of the 'good' germs that we need along with many other things that help the body function properly and I also believe that it can be dangerous too in some people as there are side effects of which many are not told about.

Many people have conditions that they arent even aware of...and this has to be taken into consideration too.

Quote....The detox I offer to my patients includes elimination/provocation diet.  I eliminate the gluten, dairy, eggs, soy, and corn for 3 weeks then I reintroduce one food group and challenge the body for a negative response....Unquote.

In this case what would you do if the patient experienced Anaphalaxix from an allergy to one of the foods?

Soy is well known for destroying the balance is thyroid function so why would you administer Soy?

These are just some of the questions I have.

Believe me, I am not against natural therapies...far from it. You will never see a tube of or bottle of Antiseptic in my house as I grow Aloe Vera and it is used for everything.

My main concern is that detox can upset the balance of thyroid hormones and also upset other organs.

As I said, this is not to discredit you and we are all entitled to our own opinions but I would never have detox myself as I believe it can cause extra problems.

I have seen effects from detox and some were pretty nasty resulting in hospitalisation.
This is not to say that this is what happens with you but that is my reason for being against detox.

All the best in your endeavours :o)
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Smilerdeb and Lila.

The detox I'm doing with my Doctor in San Antonio, is very similar to Dr. G's detox. I don't think my doc will introduce soy. He has already told me to get off soy, which I responded, I already have. I'm not sure if this is the same advice he gives to all patients. My doc, as well as Dr. G, treats all kinds of patients, not just thyroid.

My doctor provides the supplements, probiotics and protein powder. I only need to supply the lean meat and fruits/veggies.

:) Tamra
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Let us know how you go Tam.
Good Luck :o)
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Has anyone gone through acupuncture while being treated for thyroid? I just stated it last week...Right now we are working on my grief issues, and my large and small intestine, also she does one she calls the brain reset button...and today added emotions...
Just curious...I wonder if anyone has and if they have had bad affects, or if it is wise? The acupuncturist said, there would be no conflict....I've just been so constipated, and some tell me that I am hypo, and may need a bit of an increase....I get the impression that my Dr. is wanting to work me off of the Levo completely, but very slowly...for additional tests..
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Hello again.  I would like to clarify the concept of the elimination/provocation diet.  First, in order to eliminate a food group it has to be already present.  Thus, I am not introducing anything new that may result in a severe allergic reactions.  We are simply eliminating the food group for 3 weeks, allowing the gut associated lymphoid tissue to repair and rejuvenate.  Then I reintroduce it to see if it causes headaches, body pain, constipation/irregular bowel movements. Doing so would indicate a flare up of the immune system which would promote any type of autoimmune disease.

Specifically for my Hashimoto patients I put them on a diet of 100% free of gluten and iodine. The elimination/provocation diet helps me decide what other foods they should avoid.  For example if they had a reaction to dairy then that is also another food group that they should avoid.  Anyway, I hope that makes sense.  
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hi Sharon Lee

I've heard good things about acapuncture and had some years ago for whiplash, which it helped. I haven't personally tried it for thyroid issues but I believe some others on here may have and be able to tell you more about their experiences.

are you trying any dietary things for constipation?

I used to do rabbit pellets (sorry for gross detail, LOL) but have good movements now which I think is to do with avoiding white flour and sugar and taking probiotics and Vitamin C as well as some other supplements which I believe all help a lot though I'm no expert on all of that, very much a begginner/experimenter.

Prune juice is good one for constipation too though of course some might say it's bad because of the fructose! there are always going to be conflicting opinions, personally I don'ttend to believe in absolute truths - the body is not a simple thing and we are all individuals.
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hi Liya
the book is called "why do I still have thyroid symptoms...." by Datis Kharrazion (hopefully I've spelt his name correctly.

I found it interesting. TamraW recommended it to me.

It really helped me think about my autoimmune hypothyroidism differently and to start to believe that perhaps there may be a lot more I could be doing to help myself through diet and supplements. Not that i haven't thought this before. I am one of the many on here who have gottten a bit obsessed with trying to find a solution to feeling better (no I'm not so foolish as to say I'm looking for a "cure", I wouldn't dare say that word!). But there is lots of conflicting info out there and it's to know what advice to follow when different sources tend to disagree.

What I really took away from reading this was (I believe) a better understanding of how the immune system works and how it can impacts thyroid function, the knowledge has motivated me to pay more attention to what I'm eating and to perhaps try some different supplements and even possibly an elimination diet trial of some sort though I've  not decided on that yet. He's very anti gluten and I'm wary of cutting that out entirely because it's such a radical dietary change but perhaps it will come to that. At any rate information is power and supports our abilities to make informed choices.

This guy seems to be a good source of information - exceptionally highly qualified, not like some "doctors" who write books and promote themselves and then turn out to be not as qualified as they like to make out, as I have found some to be ("Dr" McKeith for example who is very well known here in the UK and turns out may not even be a real doctor!). Kharrazion genuinely seems to be a proper "expert" - though I recognise I'm not yet at a stage in my own knowledge where I can be completely confident that's the case. His credentials look really good to me.

If anyone wants to chat more about his stuff on another thread maybe we could start one, this one is fantastic but getting pretty long....

love and light to all of you on here contributing to such a fascinating and knowledgeable discussion. thanks and blessings from a fellow seeker.  




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Re: constipation, I have been using 1 CAP of magnesium daily...though I have not ask my Dr. if it is ok..Then had the acupuncturist do my colon 4 days ago, and that combined with this what may sound silly remedy, put castor oil on the tummy, and put a cloth over it, and put the heating pad on it....I do 20 min. had to do it twice, but something worked...
I've not yet spoken to her about the thyroid, and acupuncture, but will.
She does a spot that she calls reset button for the brain. Love that one! She also says I am still reacting big time to the grief, and I can't help but thing, having some resolve there, will increase my overall health.
Prune juice has never worked for me....however, I did have a Dr. some yrs. ago, tell me it works better if warmed up.
I see my Dr. Tues. finally for the results of 7 vials of blood drawn, many checking for autoimmune diseases...some, I don't have a clue. For 4 days I have felt better, sores in and on mouth all but gone, bad taste nearly gone, actually feeling like doing some things...without forcing myself...I looking forward to seeing him, and I told my daughter is he wants to mess with my pills too much using only counts, depending upon his plan...I will throw them at him...I told her about 6 days ago...if I kept feeling as bad as I was them, she cold just prop me up on a dolly bungy cord, or silver tape me to is, and roll me into his office, she said, you know mom, I think this new Dr. would get a kick out of it, after he stood and looked at you, and examined you with his eyes, which he does every time, then comes back with, comments about my skin color on my face, sores, etc....etc....weight loss, etc. My daughter and I both remember him saying he will do another biopsy of the nodule, so perhaps he is going to work me off of the Levo first...I don't have a clue what I am talking about, just speculating.
Thanks for the rabbit pellet suggestions...I can relate to those...
Hopefully, I'll have more information Tues. afternoon, and prayerfully it will not be another disease to deal with.
I also see my eye Dr. Monday, for a full, as it put it, everything...I have now one droopy eyelid, pooch y eye, and the other, so far normal in appearance...very blurry vision, though I do have glaucoma, and cataracts. Have a good weekend....
Blessings,
Sharon
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Thanks sooooo much - I managed to order the book just today and hope to have it soon.  I too have blurred vision but also noted something else - my hearing seems to be affected as well.  I note that I need to turn the sound to the TV up by two notches and also find my ears very sensitive to certain sounds.  I am not sure if I am T1 or T2 dominant but am lijnkoing with Dr Boydston from the Boydston institute online and we are trying to see if I can have the tests done here in HOng Kong - LOL now am runnning back to labs to see if anyone can do them for me.  I had chocolate this week organic 85% cocoa chocolate and within a day felt as if I have a choaking feeling in my throat again.  Not sure if it is the chocolate or if it is part of the hashimoto flareup as we have had a lot of very high humid days and they do seem to impact on me - or does this mean I am hypo again.  I am looking forward to try the coconut recipes and took all of the week to try and locate a shop in Hong Kong where I could buy it - I was blessed to find two bags and now more.  I also bought some Chia seeds as am told they are very good to stabilise my hypoglycemic levels as well.  Dr Boydston told me to eat a very small portion of protein within 20 minutes of waking up to stabilize my sugar levels as it  sets my energy levels for the day - am happy to report back that it has made a huuuuuuge difference.  I dropped my T4 to introduce 10mcg of Cytomel T3 but soon had bad headaches and feeling hyper.  Upped my T4 back to what I usally took and take 2.5mcg of T3 - this seems to be much better - but it aint sooooo easy to take a 20mcg tablet and divide it into 8 pieces as I have not been able to find 5mcg tablets.  Hope that Dr Boydston can help me with that one.  
Thanks to all for the wonderful sharing and by the way the Coconut Diet and oil has made a huge difference for me - my skin is looking much better and not longer have the yellow tinge as I think my liver is clearing up.  I do notice my skin has improved as well but seem to have a bit of a rash over my nose - not really on my cheeks but do not know why on my nose.  
Blessings to all and thanks sooooooo much for the wonderful sharing - I am able to shape my life and live with this condition much better because of all of you.  I am because you are!!!!!!!

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Do you have compounding pharmacies in Hong Kong? They can make doses smaller for you....Just curious.

Well, I told my daughter yesterday that I feel like I am coming down, like something inside my body is dropping...can't really explain it...well, I was right, today, I'm light headed, so no Church...won't drive like this, and my BP an pulse are wacko...My daughter reminded me, mom you are coming down off of this drug, so you will feel crappy. Enough already...but I will wade through it!

Have a blessed day...
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Noooooo such thing - Pharmacies as we know them in South Africa or other parts of the world is not known here.  Doctors dispense their own medication - T3 is only available from the USA as here in Hong Kong and China they only use T4 meds - there is one practice we know of here that has the T3 but only the 20mcg tablets.  You need to deal with one of the drs within that practice to be prescribed with the T3.  For that reason found an online USA dr to deal with and through him will be able to get the 5mcg tablets.  We will also see over the next two weeks if I may have to increase to 5mcg or not as I am very sensitive and think starting at 5mcg was perhaps just a bit toooooo much for me.

The tight feeling over my throat is better - just the neck pain that is still there - on 5cm then went away but was very jittery.  Am sure that somewhere along the line will ge the levels right.  At least my weight is stable the past few months and dead on 48.5 kilograms.  The edema is also far less and my legs are beginning to look like my own again.  

Blessings
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Wow! A lot of discussion has been going on since I started this post. I just got back from my third coastal fishing excursion in the past month. Would I have the energy to spend all day fishing, then go to the pool with my kiddo and then barbeque with friends if I hadn't given up gluten?

This weekend I am going to a horseback riding retreat with my company. I can tell you all I WOULD NOT have the energy to do all this if I was still eating gluten. Giving up gluten, corn, iodine, and soy (quite a lot, I know) has made a WORLD of difference in my health. I believe Dr. K. when he says gluten and the gut are both linked to Hashimoto's. I believe in Dr. K's protocol and in those doctors like Dr. G. who follow his protocol.

Because of my new eating lifestyle, I have had to reduce my dependency on thyroid hormone and I wake up each morning with energy!

Next week I begin the elimination diet that Dr. G. mentioned above. My doctor, Dr. Webb in San Antonio, also practices according to Dr. K. I can't wait because I know I'll feel even better.

:) Tamra
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My neck swells with chocolate, coffee and green tea. It looks like I'm TH2 dominant. I actually have a kit to test if I'm for sure TH2 dominant at my house, along with a 24 hour saliva kit for my adrenals. I have to wait for my period to finish before I can take these home tests and then start on the diet. In the meantime, I do take Golden Seal and Echinecea once a day and it really helps. I can go an entire day with no swelling now, sometimes, several days at a time, until my will bends and I eat chocolate. :) Tamra
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Sharon, my  chiropractor is going to give me these treatments that are similar to acupuncture. I think it's lazer, but I'm not sure. Anyway, I have other friends who do acupuncture and swear by it. My chiropractor is also working on my spine. I saw the XRays last week and am none too happy with my bones right now. My spine actually bends to the right. He says spinal adjustments make a huge difference in our health.

:) T.
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I have had acupunture with great success but not for the thyroid as my levels are good and energy too.
Starting back at work again in the next week or so.
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Just wanted to throw in my own experience with acupuncture.  It only gave me short term pain relief for a rotator cuff problem.  Don't know if the injury was beyond the ability of acupuncture or what.  My understanding is that the needles are placed in positions that cause endorphins to be released  (neurotransmitters produced in the brain that cause pain relief).  Never could figure out how this was supposed to create healing, but it did feel better for a while.  FWIW
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Mine was for whiplash in a car smash years ago.
Never had the neck problem ever again.
It beat any pain killer.

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Saw my new Dr. yesterday with all of my labs in, and he said, he cannot pin any disease on me, that all of my labs came back normal..Of course that is good news, however, why the grey coat on my tongue, and sores in the mouth that come and go, since starting the Levo....he said, he just can't believe it is the Levo. but did give me mo. supply of Synthroid, but not to start it for 2 weeks, as he wants me off of Tagamet and onto another type of med for the GERDS. I've tried 3 others now...anyway, finally my thyroid counts as normal, again, so why do I feel so crappy? I must say that all my life when going to a Dr. I have had for years, or a new one, any symptoms I display, when they can't find anything, if they even bother to check, they always want to say, it is all related to your PTSD. I just want to smack them...I'm anxious to start the Synthroid, after this other med. for GERDS...at least he only wants to start one thing at a time....he did finally say, that maybe the fillers, and I said or binders used in the Levo are not agreeing with me...I've had that issue for years with some meds....anyway, my counselor, said, she does not agree with him...because I'm not displaying PTSD symptoms...and the Dr. did say, I don't see depression at all, nor do I feel it....then my therapist also said, you do have an autoimmune disease, you have a thyroid problem.
I asked him if I am Hypo or Hyper, and he and the nurse both said, pretty much in unison, you have both....well, that is just lovely...Well, I still need to process all that he did and didn't say, and call with more question...which he said, to do. I still have my colonoscopy in June...and I don't go back to see him for 6 mo. unless I have a problem, he will have another ultrasound done before I see him, and blood draws...Thanks for listening....time for the Levo pill that I just hate...but am grateful to have my thyroid back to normal range...my therapist said, maybe it will just take time for my body to adjust to the normal again. No Free TH 3 or 4 like I've heard many of you talk about...
have a blessed day...
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I've noticed a huge energy boost in my daughter on the gluten free diet (3 months now). It's really been in this last few weeks that it has been more noticable. She had her doctors apt. a few days ago and she has lost 2 lbs. which is a first!!! Also, labs now show that it's time for a decrease as her freet4 and freet3 and her reverse t3 are all creeping up. She has been on 3 grains of the original Nature-Throid (nine and born without a thyroid gland) since last summer. Now all of a sudden we need a decrease by 1/2 a grain! Wow! the only thing that I can attribute this to is a healthier gut if 20% of thyroid hormone is converted in the intestinal track as your recommended book states .Limiting gluten and yeast is making a big difference here! Hip Hip Hurray!!!
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wow....I can't believe all of the incredible information in this thread!! I have been dealing with symptoms for over 10 years now but didn't get my hypothyroid dx til 5 years ago and my Hashi's dx about 6 months ago.

It's so frustrating what we all deal with when family doctor's we have to see to get referrals know NOTHING about the thyroid and won't do the required testing in order to diagnose a problem that yields the necessity to see a specialist!  I fought for almost 2 years to get to see an endocrinologist..I got my way......eventually.

I ordered the book that keeps getting brought up and I can't wait to get it in my hand, it was shipped out today! :-D  I also requested local doctor's that follow the protocol in the book. I'd love to be able to manage my autoimmune thyroiditis through the majority of diet and natural remedies than taking synthetic hormones.  I believe it's affecting my liver functions as my enzymes were a little high when tested in March.

Anyway...I just wanted to say you all are a blessing and I'm so glad I found this website.  I feel like I've found people that truly understand what I'm going through. :-)

Sara
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Update: Since giving up gluten and going on the supplements to reverse T2 dominance my goiter is GONE! I will be posting pictures under my profile soon. I am down from 150 to 112 Synthroid and 10 to 2.5 Cytomel.

I have also discovered an intolerance to corn and dairy. Bummer. But at least I feel MUCH better. I start my detox next week for my bloated stomach. I do the 24 hour saliva adrenal test tomorrow.

:) Tamra
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Isn't it wonderful??? I'm so happy for your daughter. How heartbreaking it must have been for you all these years watching your little one suffer. I'm so glad this will have a happy ending. My little one might need to go gluten free. Her little tummy is just so swollen. I am thinking about testing her at my doctor's office. I certainly don't want her ending up with Hashimoto's.

:) Tamra

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The mouth thrush sounds like a candida thing. I bought some coconut oil and I drink it nightly. My mouth thrush is gone now. This is a typical problem with many of us Hashis. You may also need to go gluten free and cut back on yeasty foods. See below article on thrush and coconut oil.

http://www.coconutdiet.com/candida.htm

I bought a huge jug at www.naturesflavors.com

I now regret it because it was costly and just darned  huge. Whole Foods sells jars for $10. I'm sure other health food stores sell it as well.

I sure hope you read this book: www.thyroidbook.com

It explains the thyroid/gut connection.

:) Tamra
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Thank you, for your  post on mouth thrush...I have complained and complained to 2 different Dr.'s about this coat on my tongue, sore, sensitivity of tongue, when I brush the coat off, the horrible taste in my mouth, etc....I've yet to get someone to even look at it, let alone offer ways to treat it...It is miserable, I have had it since my thyroid uptake scan when they gave me the radioactive iodine....When I saw my Psychiatrist, he suggested I need to have someone scrape, and culture  and see if it is candida? He seems to have much more knowledge than the medical docs...at least he looked at it...so when I left his office I went to the vitamin shoppe...and she said, of course you have candida, the radio active iodine killed all of the good bacteria, and you want to treat it before it becomes systemic....she sold me a pill to dissolve in my mouth, she also mentioned coconut oil. Now I don't feel like I am complaining for no reason...as you know this stuff if miserable.
Sharon
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this is a wonderful thread. I have learned so much from all of you posting on here and will keep coming back to reread and follow the links.

TamraW I'm so delighted you and your daughter are getting good results from going gluten free, it seems like such a radical step I have been really resisting it but the more I read the more I'm thinking I should really give it a go. It's so good to hear about other people's experiences on here.

I am fairly sure that as I'm trying more and more to avoid white flour and sugar products I really notice a bad effect when I end up eating them.

And I'm so sick of this puffy stomache I've got - it would be wonderful if I could get rid of that.

Will investigate this coconut diet thing. I've been drinking quite a lot of coconut water this week and I love the taste. ...

thank you sending love and light to all of you.

yl
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Go to my profile and look at the photos of how my neck swelling has come down. If you read this book, www.thyroidbook.com , it explains why Hashis should give up gluten. It also explains in depth about Th1/Th2 dominance.

Many of us have yeast issues and the common puffy stomach and vaginal infections and oral thrush.

:) Tamra
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I don't know if going gluten free or adding the coconut oil has eliminiated my thrush, but I don't get it anymore. I used to suck on Mycelex lozenges and those worked, but then the thrush always came back a few weeks later. I've been about three months with no thrush or yeast infections but my stomach is still aching. My doctor will give me a stomach cleanse to eliminate the stomach yeast.

There is also a product that I have had good results with, but it's a little costly, and I hated drinking it three times a day, so I quit for the coconut oil. It did work. Yeast Ease by Jernigan's Neutraceuticals. http://www.jernigannutraceuticals.com/

I keep a bottle of their Microbojen on stock. Both my daughter and I have not gotten sick since we started using it. At the first sign of a cold, we take it and we are well the next day.

:) Tamra
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Hi Tamra,
Thank you, for the feed back, my Dr. office just called in a 10 day Rx. for Diflucan...but when I read it's side affects, and what not to take it with...I'm going to wait, I did go to the vitamin shopped and they sold me a bottle of oral Flora, you let it disolve in your mouth once daily...It seems to be doing some good, I know when you use natural, it takes longer...I was told yesterday that the radio active iodine is what did it, that it killed off all of the good bacteria...thus the thrush...hum, poetry...I'll have to check into the coconut oil. Thank you, for that suggestion. It must be wonderful to be free of the thrush. I'm looking forward to it...I've been dealing with this since Dec. of course the hosp. and Dr. all said, no the radioactive iodine would not do that....Have a great day...I'm not familiar with a stomach cleanse, is that the same as a colon cleanse?
Sharon
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Hello to all
We often awaken with a foul taste in our mouths and it is believed that we also hold a lot of toxin in our mouths first thing in the morning.  I do something that I leanrt of during my frequent travels to India.  Oil pulling - as I wake up and before doing all my other little rituals of drinking cider water or ginger water.  Try not to swollow your saliva - head straight for the bathroom Into your mouth put about a tablespoon of cold pressed sunflower oil, swich it around for about 5 - 10 minutes whilst you do something else.  after the 5/10 minutes spit the oil out into your toilet.  Rince and brush you teeth.  Herwith a lot of the poison and mouth toxins are not taken back into your system.  I then do my netipot ritual also from India.  Have my ginger water and another glass of water, eat my small amount of protein and then do some Qigong and the fish pose and the lion pose both yoga stances.  The lion pose is a very good way to push air from the depth of your stomach up your throat.  I have found it to be very benefical for me Liya.  I now am working on dealing with my gut flora and at the moment that 10 accidophilis tablets twice a day.
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Hello to all
We often awaken with a foul taste in our mouths and it is believed that we also hold a lot of toxin in our mouths first thing in the morning.  I do something that I leanrt of during my frequent travels to India.  Oil pulling - as I wake up and before doing all my other little rituals of drinking cider water or ginger water.  Try not to swollow your saliva - head straight for the bathroom Into your mouth put about a tablespoon of cold pressed sunflower oil, swich it around for about 5 - 10 minutes whilst you do something else.  after the 5/10 minutes spit the oil out into your toilet.  Rince and brush you teeth.  Herwith a lot of the poison and mouth toxins are not taken back into your system.  I then do my netipot ritual also from India.  Have my ginger water and another glass of water, eat my small amount of protein and then do some Qigong and the fish pose and the lion pose both yoga stances.  The lion pose is a very good way to push air from the depth of your stomach up your throat.  I have found it to be very benefical for me Liya.  I now am working on dealing with my gut flora and at the moment that 10 accidophilis tablets twice a day.
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Read www.thyroidbook.com about the stomach cleanse. Mouth thrush is just awful. Knock on wood, I haven't had it since going gluten free and drinking coconut oil. A lot of thyroid patients get it as they have an underlying yeast condition. Bloated stomach, etc...

:) Tamra
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I need to get back into my yoga and Tai Chi. How do you prepare your ginger water?

Thanks,
:) Tamra
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What kind of doctor do you see that is giving you all this great treatment?  I went to the dr today to try and request a few of the tests from the book and he looked at me funny and gave me a referral to a rheumatologist. I'm getting frustrated with the health care system.  After reading some of this book I am determined to kick Hashimoto's in to remission and I will do what it takes!!

As a side note...I had a bad case of thrush back in 2007 after i had my jaw surgery and a combo of all the antibiotics I was given plus my jaw being banded shut and couldn't clean properly..oh it was awful!!
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I went to Dr. K's website and asked for a referral in my city:

http://www.thyroidbook.com/contact-and-clinic-info.html

I am very lucky that one of Dr. K's students, Dr. Webb, practices in San Antonio. He has two other doctors working under him and they are the most wonderful group of doctors I've ever met. They actually get Hashimoto's and the underlying gut problems that contribute to our decline. In fact, I'm doing their gut detox now and my stomach is feeling better.

Dr. Geronimo will also do long distance consults if you do not have a doctor in your area. My friend is using his services and is very pleased with her results. Here is his website:

http://powaysportschiropractic.com/

:) Tamra
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Greetings

I take a slice of fresh ginger - pulp it up in a motar and pestle ( hope those are the right English words as English aint my first language) place the pulp in a large mug and fill it half way with boiling water - leave for about 10 minutes, add enough cold water but must still be warm and drink that on an empty stomach.  Have this first thing in the morning and last thing in the evening.

Reading Dr K's book and they sent me a whole list of Drs names and their contact numbers - but wow the costs as high - some want as much as 6000USD for a three month period.  

perhaps someone out there has found someone cheaper.  If I pay that I would need to multiply by 8 to bring it Hong Kong value.  as the HKD and USD are set at 7.89 so I may as well work on 8 HKD to one USD.
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Have any of you used diflucan, for oral fungus?
Mine is just not getting better on natural meds. like probiotics, and even one with zinc that I let dissolve in my mouth...Of course  it is worse in the morning...but have to brush about 3 times a day....I just feel miserable, as in weak, and tired...and I hate taking prescription drugs...I just have side affects that are often worse than the illness. I was surprised to learn that oral thrush is not unusual with thyroid disease...
I've thought of calling the Dr. as for a liquid prescription of the med. so that I don't get so much in my blood stream, for the side affects..
Thank you, for your feedback, thoughts, or experiences. They also called in a 200 MG and I wondered if I could cut that is half, as I am not in the least good with meds.
Why do those with thyroid get this? Mine started when the gave me the radio active iodine...for the uptake scan...that was in Dec. and I'm no better...
Thank you...have a good day...
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Sharon, you are not the first person who has undergone RAI with thrush problems. I know my thrush issues were due to leaky gut syndrome:

http://www.leakygut.co.uk/

Have you ever had stomach problems in your youth before this all started? You may have a leaky gut and the RAI kind of brought it to the surface. Just a theory. Many people with auto-immune thyroid disease have leaky guts. Try eliminating all foods with yeast and refined sugar from your diet for a few weeks. Also, coconut oil is a natural yeast killer. My hubby and I use it and it works great. I have not had mouth thrush in several months since giving up gluten and drinking a tablespoon of coconut oil per night. Here's a site I came upon about coconut oil.

http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/coconut_oil11.html#SIDEEFFECTS

I bought a huge jug from naturesflavors.com which I regret because it's just too big. Whole foods sells it as well. I think naturesflavors sells a smaller jug.
:) Tamra
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Thank you, for the information. I've had stomach problems as long as I can remember, and especially after my first child was born, it became worse, with flare up, now since this thyroid diagnosis, it is daily, though the Hyomax helps
Thank you, for the coconut oil suggestion, I believe our vitamin shoppe carries it...I've been working on the gluten, eliminating as much as possible...I also understand there is gluten listed in other forms on many foods, I need to research and find out what they are...It is not easy, simply because I don't know what to substitute it with...for now, I bought rice cakes to use like bread...I use honey to sweeten, is that perhaps not a good idea? Primarily with tea. I appreciate your comment and suggestions..I have an appointment with a Gastrointerologist June 25...to set up a colonoscopy...is that likely to show the leaky gut syndrome? Just curious. Also went to the eye Dr. yesterday for my 4 mo. check up on my glaucoma, and he said, now we have got to get aggressive about your glaucoma,. and right away, as I have lost more vision, and he said, this is not good...so laser surgery the 26th. cataract surgery to follow, then glaucoma surgery...I took my labs into him, to have in my file and he said, good it is good for him to have these...he said, your have circles and checks all over the pale and indicated that my thyroid is not stable, based on what he read...he also said, I had the type of Nodule (hyperplasia) that tends to be malignant..but they are very slow...I told him, he just told me more about thyroid than any Dr. has...he said, well you got all that I know, so, maybe if you piece it all together, you will get some information....he also said, thyroid is a tough one to figure out and treat correctly! Smart man!
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My favorite gluten free guide:
http://celiac.org/images/stories/PDF/quickstart-diet-guide-april-2009.pdf

Gluten free food list: http://homepage.mac.com/sholland/celiac/GFfoodlist.pdf

Gluten free restaurants: http://gfrestaurants.com/gluten-free-restaurants/

Gluten free grocery stores: http://celiacdisease.about.com/od/glutenfreefoodshopping/ss/GFgrocerylist_2.htm

Gluten free recipes: http://crockpot365.blogspot.com/2008/09/crockpot-chicken-nuggets-recipe.html

Candida cleansing website. A lot of info on here and not sue if all therapies are credible. Lemon water has helped me.
http://www.candida-cure-recipes.com/natural-detox-body-cleansing.html

:) Tamra
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BTW - It's a shame your eye doctor isn't an endo! :) T.
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No Kidding!
Thank you, for all of the great sites you sent....
I started Synthroid today, as the Dr. two weeks ago, when he said, I was stable, blah, blah, blan, gave me to try, but said, wait 2 weeks...Go figure....although he had given me an RX for prilosec...it only takes a few days if that, for me to have reactions and or side affects to a med...so I a ASSUMING, that is why the 2 week wait...I'd called his office to phone in an RX for Tagament the only one that I have ever been able to take without side affects...(wish I didn't have to use any) He wants me off of it because my breasts were tender the day of my visit, and I mentioned it...I figured it was from the hormone imbalance in my system...I know my testosterone and progesterone are very low, and estrogen is high. I learned that from my gynecologist....I have severe vaginal atrophy, not fun...He didn't even check those..to my knowledge...
I have some new issues....unrelated, I think to the thryoid...saw my eye Dr. 2 days ago, and have lost more vision, with my glaucoma, he said, more than he thought...so he said, we have got to get aggressive, now about your glaucoma treatment...so have laser surgery on the 25th. he said, sometimes it works, sometimes not...he need to relieve the pressure in my eyes...and the goal is to lower the pressure and preserve the L eye that has not had any optic nerve damage, yet...Yesterday that got to me emotionally, as my vision is blurry anyway, and has been for the past 4 months..also need both cataracts removed. Now I did not sign up to be the actress in the old morton salt commercial...if you are younger, there was a very cut commercial years ago, with a little girl holding and umbrella, advertising Morton Salt, I think that was about the time they added iodine...not sure though. The commercial said, when it rains, it pours.
Have a great day....again......thanks for the sites. SK
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People with Graves goiters typically can have eye problems. It can also happen with Hashi goiters as well. Last summer, before diagnosis, it felt like someone had punched me in both eyes. My ears would hurt as well. No fun.

I don't know if your RAI caused this, but sometimes you'd be amazed at how many of our ailments are connected. I'm convinced my issues began in the gut. 80 percent of the body's immunity comes from the gut, and yet we bombard our guts with sugar, starch, dairy, artificial sweeteners, artificial preservatives, etc. No wonder auto-immune cases are on the rise.

People with Hashi should generally avoid iodine as it can cause the immune flare up to become worse. I use sea salt without added iodine. You can find it in the salt section. Since you had Graves, right? I have friends who've had Graves who use iodine with no ill affects. Try to avoid kelp based iodine as there have been a few reported deaths linked to kelp.

This is a learning process. I've had to adjust my way of looking at food, especially what is put into food. It seems anything can be put in food nowadays and the FDA just turns the other cheek. Just do a Google on Bromide, found in Mountain Dew and many breads. Nasty stuff. Look at how many foods marketed toward kids  have high fructose corn syrup and artificial flavors.

I'm totally back to basics now and my body is responding. Organic lean chicken baked in olive oil with roasted garlic and natural spices like Rosemary and Thyme with some sea salt. GF brown rice. Organic, natural salad dressings. No soy. No dairy or corn. It takes some getting used to, but it's fun creating new recipes, and luckily, hubby wants to eat healthy as well.

:) Tamra
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Actually, my Dr. has not said, I have either graves or hash...but I do have a goiter, and nodule...my previous Dr. started me right away on Levo 100mcg oh my gosh, I was so sick for a good 3+ mo. my psychiatrist ask why in H---did he start you on 100mcg? I said, I don't know, maybe he was trying to kill me...every time I went in with more symptoms I would loose 3# a week...I basically lived on my sofa...couldn't eat...etc...it was awful, the thrush in my mouth was so thick and disgusting tasting...I would brush my teeth and tongue many times a day, only to have it come right back....more than once I felt like I did not want to fight anymore...I was so so miserable....so got a new Dr. and he got me down to 44mcg and called me normal after about 8 weeks, and told me to come back in 6 mo. I so disagree with him, I feel like I need a few more "normal" blood draws, before being released to wait 6 months.....I kept bugging him, until he finally gave me a 30 day sample of Synthroid to try...I told him, I think the Levo. is a big part of my mouth and lips problem...as I taste the Levo in my mouth immediately, and within 20 min..have wretched heartburn...he said to wait 2 weeks, now figure that one out....today was my day to start the synthroid...I could be all wet, or ? but I think I am feeling better, my mouth is feeling like I have a tongue in it, instead of it being all smooth and taste like Levo...even my lips are seeming to feel some better...Maybe I am wrong...but I was so sure that Levo. was part of my problem....certainly not all...but part...now of course, I want to be right, so that I can tell him...it was not all in my head. I'm even feeling all the sores in my mouth, on the roof etc...before I could see them, also the coat on my tongue and inside my mouth, roof of mouth and throat was the color of the Levo. pill. I've very drug sensitive....and I always use a smaller dose than most...
As for the eyes, I think the thyroid played a role, as when on the 100 then 88mcg...I would get these awful headaches starting on the bone behind my ear, and it would go up the side of my head on one side, and concentrate on the back of my eye, and it would switch eyes...for several days...I now have one eye lid that droops down to where my pupil starts...so many weird things....What a blessing it would be, if the Synthroid would work for me...also I did not get the heart burn or taste with it, and I just started it today...I'm hoping...You may be able to relate, I want it to work so much so that I can say...without using the exact words, I was right, see I told you so!!!!
Thank you, for the avoid iodine tip, I'll try that...just in case...also, my eye Dr. told me that I had the kind of nodule that is usually cancer, but that it is slow...Lovely...So much to learn....I also just read that in older patients you start them with low does and work up, not the other way around...I'll quit for now...I'm just blown away by how different my mouth is feeling...in just one day, or a different pill....unbelievable...not totally gone but so much better...And, I have an appointment with him Friday to let him look at my mouth......I'm going anyway if it gets better...I have questions about the length of time before my next blood draw...and do I have graves...etc...so many he did not answer....Sorry, I said, I was going to quit and didn't. Thank you, so much....SK
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Sharon, I hope you never have to go to that doctor again. Also, please write him a letter so that he doesn't do this to another patient. Starting at 100??? Most patients start at 25. If they are young and relatively healthy, then 50.

Most people with Hashimoto's have nodules. And if the docs are putting you on Synthroid, then you most likely have Hashimoto's, not Graves.

If the nodule is over 2.0 cm, then the surgeon will recommend removal because it is too big to biopsy. If it is under 2.0 cm, then the Synthroid should shrink it if it is benign. Thyroid nodule cancer is slow growing and has a high success rate because it takes forever to spread. Don't worry too much about the nodule. Just find out how many you have and the size of each. You can read it on the radiology report. Get the report printed from your doctor's secretary. It is your right as a patient to have this information as well as your lab results.

Get your TPOab and Tgab tested and post results here on a new thread. Those are the Hashi antibody tests. Also, get your FT3, FT4 and TSH results and post them here. Those are your thyroid levels. FT3 is particularly important as it is the most active level. TSH, a pituitary hormone, not so much, but most doctors will have a fit if you leave that off the test.

:) Tamra
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My biopsy did state that No psammoma bodies are identified. Hurthle cells with admixed lymphocytes to suggest hashimoto's thyroiditis are not identified. The findings are most consistent with nodular hyperplasia. Clinical follow up is recommended.
Ultra sound: Neck...She has 2 cm soft nodule that appears to be on the superior pole of the right thyroid. It moves when swallowing. There is no vervical or supraclavicular adenopathy.

As of now that is what I have...I am seeing him tomorrow for the mouth thrust, as a work in...but hope to get some questions answered, like why 6 months? Will he order FT3 and FT4. Also could he order labs ongoing for every 6-8 weeks until I see him again...Hopefully this visit will get some questions answered.
Thank you, for caring, and your suggestions.
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Hard nodules are more worrisome. I would not stress over this nodule. Request a biopsy to be sure. It is less painful than a trip to the dentist. So glad the mouth thrush is improving. :) Tamra
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I've had one biopsy, my Dr. said, he plans to do another...I know he has me scheduled for a CT scan in Oct., and blood work...
Thank you, so much, what a help and blessing you have been to and for me...
;-) Sharon
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Where can I find the information, about why we need to have FT3 and FT4 as opposed to T3 & T4? I'm trying to learn what I don't know! I want to learn all I can about this autoimmune disease, since I have to live with it...I also want to take facts to my Dr. and see how he responds to them...He seems like a Dr. who will research it, and not just po po it....I don't even know what questions to ask, at this stage of the illness, but am trying to learn.
Thank you.....so much.
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Re read my post, NOT a CT scan, BUT rather an ULTRA SOUND, of the thyroid....sorry for the mistake....My brain knew what I meant, but my fingers did not type it!
Thrush is back as bad as when it began...I do see the Dr. today...for that! Hopefully I can get some other questions answered, as well...
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Has anyone else experienced a white coat on the tongue, and grit on the teeth, when I take a drink of water it tastes bitter...the Dr. treated me with diflucan for 5 days, and it did nothing! He asked if I am a mouth breather? And, suggested it is dry mouth syndrome, it all started when I was given the radio active iodine. He said, he did not thing that would cause this...I guess I wonder if it is either one medication, Levo, or Synthroid, or the Hyomax for IBS...though I went off of it for several days, and had no relief what so ever...just lots of discomfort from IBS....Does anyone have suggestion as to how to get some measure of relief from this,....I brush my teeth and tongue several times a day...chew gum and dissolve altoids in my mouth, I also use Biotene toothpaste and mouthwash....This is the pits...I don't see the Dr. again until Oct. our town is really hurting for medical professionals...and available appointments. Thank you, for anyone who may have experienced this or has some suggestions.
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Below is an article from Mary Shomon about T4/T3 treatment vs the standard T4 only therapy. A new study shows T4/T3 therapy superior.

Drink Virgin coconut oil for the thrush. Seriously. 1 tbsp per day and work up to three per day over a few weeks. Also, quit gluten, yeast and sugar for a few days and see if you feel better.

http://thyroid.about.com/b/2010/05/17/t3-superior-t4-levothyroxine-hypothyroidism-thyroid.htm
:) Tamra
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Thank you, so much for the article...I tried numerous thrush recommendations...from the health food store, to no avail....the Dr. still insists it is not fungus, but rather dry mouth syndrome...I'm going to run it by my psychiatrist in June...he has thyroid himself....and suggested I needed to have it cultured...so will ask him to do that...also I feel that I need a blood draw before the end of Oct...I guess I can think and feel all I want, but if I can't get anyone to hear me, than I am stuck....Having only Medicare leaves me with my hands tied...so to speak...so many in our state are cutting off Medicare patients...
I'll quit my griping, and if something gets out of whack, that seems an obvious problem, I'll call my PCP....Yes, I am feeling frustrated....sorry to be so negative....
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I also found on Mayo Clinic site, that if you have the coat on the tongue, check with your health care professional and see if you have diabetes or Thyroid disease... Well, I guess that kind of answered my question...never having heard of it, I was too willing not to accept it!
I purchased numerous dry mouth items, tooth paste, mouth wash, spray to carry with me, and gel. they are helping, more that I expected.
Next week, I have laser surgery on my R. eye, and can only wonder how much the thyroid is affecting my glaucoma, and vision loss.
Have a wonderful day, and weekend...
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I just wanted to say thanks for recommending the book.  I am not sure if I am TH1 or TH2 yet, I just bought it yesterday.  From what I've read so far it is very interesting. I can see why so many of us have endoctrine problems. I also wish all doctors and a copy of the booik in their office.   I'll let you know how I make out after reading this.

Thanks Again
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Hey, I stumbled on this whilst researching. It's got some great advise thanks to everyone who posted. I need help on converting my th2 back to th1. I have so many allergies yet chronic infections that I can't shift. I have adrenal insufficiency and suspected hypothyroidism which I was taking natural desiccated thyroid for but I have come off the thyroid hormones as to see where in range I am in my bloods however I am still getting both hypo and hyper thyroid symptoms(my mother and many of my family members suffer with this along with other auto-immune illnesses). Since being on the HC which I need to live the th2 has further increased and consequently the th1 has decreased. I already have a very strict diet, no gluten, no diary, no soy, no eggs, no yeast, no fructose but I am reacting to every food I eat. I recently had a stool test come back which showed a parasite endolimax nana along with an infection morganella morganii which is an opportunistic infection, both of these only occur or are problematic in immune suppressed patients. I then have a massive amount of candida despite being on such a strict diet, anti fungals and probiotics. My specialist has recommended anti-biotics for the parasite and infections but I'd rather use natural products as anti-biotics can open you up to further infections. I am very ill, housebound and have been for the majority of the last 3 and a half years. I have picked infection up after infection and not been able to get rid of them. I live in the U.K so it's hard to find specialists to help in this area. I want to try to help myself with supplements first. I also need to fight off the candida if I am going to improve my gut and therefore improve my immune system. However I feel my only way of doing this is using prescription drugs as I am intolerant to all foods it seems even rice. If anyone can recommend any supplements that are well tolerated and effective for the candida I'd really appreciate it. I saw Tamara W you recommended Yeast Ease by Jernigan's Neutraceuticals, please could you tell me what is in the product. There is another product that interests me on there web-site called Paragen for parasites. Can anyone tell me if they have experience with this and if they know what is in the products. I also have a incredibly low Vitamin D level, 25 OH vitamin D level 8.6 ug/L. I have been taking 2000iu of Vitamin D for at least 6 months. I'm thinking of getting Vitamin D injections as I live in the U.K and won't be able to get outside for much longer it's already becoming cold. Any help would be much appreciated. I keep coming back to the same place that if I am going to help myself I need to help the TH2 convert back to TH1 as all my problems seems to be related to this. Please help if you can. Thanks for reading xxx
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Lots going on here and eliminating the parasites and candida for sure is first.

I believe there are numerous products you can take with your doctor - instead of prescriptions to rid this. Its time consuming and expensive for some however.

I don't have a specific brand to offer you in trying - sorry

Vit D - low = autoimmune issues... Are you Hashi's too? In all essence of Vit D - Vit D-3 is best to take

You fit the entire theory here on Tamra's information and she would be someone to go over all this with since it sounds like you have confirmed TH2 and TH1 indifferences.

I haven't seen her much here lately so I am not sure exactly on if her suggestion will be on here.

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I told Stella  I wouldn't be on here much. Just too much else going on in my life, but here's some natural options that have worked for me. I did do the Jernigan's Yeast Ease and parasite cleanse, but I found that Total Para and Total Yeast Redux by Apex energetics (or maybe Nutri-West, I forgot) worked best. Google Apex to find a supplier. I believe you can get it by mail. My holistic doc gave them to me.

If you can't afford those then try virgin coconut oil. My grocery store sells it now. Eat it plain, bake with it, etc. At least two tablespoons daily for yeast issues. It can also be a topical for rashes. Works great for me. Garlic and cinnamon also work great for parasites. But, speak with your doctor. You might need something stronger. Also, are you taking a good probiotic for the stomach? I take Total Probiotics by Nutri-West. There are many out there at vitamin stores, etc.  

I know what you mean about giving up foods. I've had to give up all grains for a while. Hopefully, I'll be able to incorporate at least rice and GF steel cut oats back into my diet, but, for now, I feel so much better eating protein and veggies. I'm not saying everyone do this. This is what is working for me.

If you are TH2 dominant, look to flavanoids that could be causing reactions such as berries. Also, the sugar in fruits could be causing insulin spikes, and is not good for adrenals. I had to cut back on my fruit intake, limiting it to one banana a day and one apple.

Many Hashi patients will need 5,000-10,000 IU vitamin D daily. This could be a big source of your problems. I take far more D, E, C, B12, iron, magnesium than the average person. Everyone is different, but my body needs the following daily intake:
D - 5,000 IU daily
Fish oil capsules...1980 mg EPA and  1020 mg DHA
Iron – 65 mg
Vitamin E – 270 IU
B6 – 20 mg
Folic Acid – 580 mcg
B12  - 174 mcg
Magnesium – 800-1,000 mg
Zinc – 28 mg
Selenium – 200 mcg
Vitamin A – 1700 IU
Vitamin C –1000 mg
Vitamin E - 1,000 IU
There are other vitamins I take that come with my multi pack, but too many to list.
:) Tamra
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Man, when does it all end...finally after a yr. and three Dr. my thyroid is stable, and then I have a colonoscopy and endoscopy, and the Dr. found H. Pylori in my blood, and has me on 4 antibiotics, and just added another yesterday for a secondary infection...this is absolutely the pits. I can't help but think it will affect my thyroid function...but they tell me, no. I have to take this, as I call it, cocktail for 14 days...Urgh..!!
Hope you are all doing fine....I've stopped all of my supplements, as the antibiotics say, no iron, no calcium, niacin, etc...so just stopped them all, for now. I've had another hemorrhage in my eye, and lost more vision, and had laser surgery...I've never had so much illness all at once in my life...only 10 more days to go...Oh How I pray this works..and doesn't totally mess me up.
Good luck to all of you....Maybe I will get back on her regularly when I am feeling better....Sharon
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Tamra,  my d and b12 were low.  I had to get injections for the b12.  How do you get the d?  Shot or pill?
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Bruce

read upon this information and try going gluten free to see of your condition improves. It may - with taking your meds as directed.
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Sorry you're going through this. Please make sure to take a good probiotic when you are on antibiotics. Yogurt usually isn't enough. Your local vitamin shop or health food store will sell a good probiotic. I take Nutri-West total probiotics. You can probably google it. I was taking two per meal when I was on antibiotics. Now I take two per day. :) Tamra
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I go to The Vitamin Shoppe. I know they have those N. Texas. I buy D in a liquid form because most gel caps have soy. I have been buying Wellesse liquid D at Wal-Mart but I calculated that I'm drinking 100 calories a day, so I'm back to the other kind. My daughter drinks 2,000 IU daily and takes a probiotic in preparation for flu season, since a majority of our body's immunity comes from the gut. I want her gut ready. I am taking 7,000 IU D daily and two probiotic pills by Nutri-West daily. I also take multi-vitamin capsules, loads of B12, 1,000 IU magnesium daily, C, 1,000 E, and a few others. I'm actually on a vitamin routine given to me by my holistic doctor. :) Tamra
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I just found out about the Th1 and Th2 last month, my Naturapath is getting me sample packs of some Apex supplements to take 3 times a day to see what branch is dominate so I can feed the lesser branch. Also I use LOW DOSE NALTREXONE (LDN) to treat my hashis autoimmune illness and help my Fibro pain.. I am on 2.5 mg for 7 months and has helped me avoid many pills of  OTC pain meds daily, plus a  better of mood and less anxiety! Do a search for it, hope it will help you!
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