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Hurt All Over
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Hurt All Over

I hurt all over my body, I was diagnosed with Fibromylia years ago, but I think something else is going on, because this hurt is just not my joints, it is all over.  I had my doctor do all the thyroid test, and she say they are all normal, but my understanding is, they can be normal, but you can still have a problem.  Here are the results:  The lab was LabCorp  
Thyrotropin Receptor Ab, Serum:  <0.3    
Rheumatoid Arthritis Factor: 7.9
Antinuclear Antibodies Direct:  33    (0 - 99)
TSH:  4.00    (0.35 - 5.500) **
Thyroxine (T4):  5.4    (4.5 - 12.0)
T3 Uptake:  25   (24 - 39)
Free Thyroxine Index:  1.4    (1.2 - 4.9)
Triiodothyronine (T3):  133  (85 - 205)
Sedimentation Rate-Westergren:  7   (0 - 30)
Thyroxine Binding Globulin:  20  (13 - 39)
C-Reactive Protein, Quant:  2.9  (0.0 - 4.9)
Thyroid Peroxidase (TPO) Ab:  <10   (0 - 34)
Antithyroglobulin Ab:  <20   (0 - 40)

** My understanding is that these readings has changed to .3 to 3.00?
Does anybody know about the connection of Fibro and the Thyroid?
I am going to see a Internal Medicine/Rhemotologist, this is where my GP thinks I need to go, but my complaints are:
Hurt all over, always tired, weight gain, seems like I get out of puff quickly, look drained.
Anybody have any suggestions?  HELP!!!!

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Avatar_n_tn
Forgot to mention;  Depressed (On Med); can not think, feel overwhelmed and could cry at the drop of a hat, never happy.
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158939_tn?1274918797
I know if my TSH climbs above 2.0 I feel HORRIBLE and hurt everywhere.  I was also diagnosed with fibromyalgia years ago but it has gotten much better on thyroid meds.  Wouldn't hurt to talk to an endo just in case.
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Avatar_f_tn
Oh, I know just what you mean when you say "hurt all over"! Your account sounds as if you are telling the story of the last few years of my life. I did not fully develop the "depressed, cannot think, feel overwhelmed, and cry at the drop of a hat" symptoms until a few months ago, but you have described with perfection my entire "set" of symptoms that are related to my mind.

You are entirely right about the reference range for TSH. The one your lab is using is the same one my lab uses, but for deciding whether a TSH level is normal, the range is out of date. Your GP's thinking is a little out of date, too, as was my excellent rheumatologist's. He spent many, many months looking right at my case of mild hypothyroidism and had no idea what he was seeing.

Just because your experiences are virtually identical to mine, it does not mean that your problem is the same. I am only a layperson, so my impressions should be taken with a grain of salt.

You should know, however, that a person can be impressively unwell with mild hypothyroidism; I am not the only person who is an illustration of that point. Your TSH level alone is justification for your seeing an endocrinologist, and I think that you really should. If you start there, it does not mean that you cannot see a rheumatologist at a later date...even in the near future.

Your symptoms and lab results almost shout "endocrinologist," though, not "rheumatologist." Let me caution you another time that I am only a layperson and then offer you a bit of reassurance. I have been told by more than one physician that a person's sedimentation rate tends to be a good all-purpose indicator of whether a person has one of the serious systemic diseases. The reference range of zero to 30 is correct, and any number within that range is normal and therefore reassuring. If you are anything like me, you are worrying that something might be really wrong, given the variety and severity of your symptoms. I cannot sit at a distance as a non-physician and do anything more than guess, but if I were in your shoes and I knew what I have learned over time, I would be drawing comfort from a "sed rate" of 7.

Back to the topic of a rheumatologist versus an endocrinologist. Can you make the decision about which specialist to see? I hope so! If a referral from your GP is required, it might be good if you went back to him or her to see if the referral can be changed from rheumatologist to endocrinologist. My tip for the day: If a physician is resistant to providing what a patient wants, sometimes dissolving into tears will dissolve the resistance. I have learned this since developing a tendency to cry at the drop of a hat!

I wish you the best of good luck. Please check back in and let all of us know how you are doing.
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Avatar_n_tn
Thanks for letting me know that I am not the only one and that I am not out of my mind.  I am still going to the  doctor she suggested as he is highly recommended and see what he says.  I am not working with any of my local doctors, she is sending me across the bridge as we call it - The doctors work out of Johns Hopkins and other teaching hospitals.  

Do you find Flexiril (muscle relaxers) help you with your muscles?

Again Thanks
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Avatar_f_tn
I am sorry to say that I cannot answer your question about Flexiril, because my muscle pain problems have not been quite bad enough for me to ask my rheumatologist about a muscle relaxant. There seem to be strong individual differences in reactions to medications, though, so even if I had tried the drug and it had not helped, it still might help you.

You are entirely welcome for my unspoken message, and you "heard it" accurately: You are not alone, and you are not out of your mind. It is easy to wonder about both, especially if you are experiencing the kind of wacky emotional symptoms that you and I have. I can see in hindsight that my thyroid gland's struggles were making themselves apparent in sneaky ways for a lot of years, but it has been less than a year since I have had more than a very slight and temporary symptom that was related to thinking or emotions. Then as my hypothyroidism made its presence known in a big way, oh wow, the thinking and emotions problems I have had! I already had a diagnosis when my mind went over the edge, and I am hugely grateful for that. If I had not known the source of my problems, I would have panicked, I am sure.

In regard to the doctor your GP recommended: It cannot hurt to follow through. I had a one-time assessment with a Johns Hopkins physician, and although he was one of several physicians (all of them seemingly competent to a high degree) to miss the fact that my underlying problem was hypothyroidism, he was excellent--very knowledgeable, and he worked very hard to try to figure out what was wrong with me. On the other hand, a friend went to Hopkins for a serious eye problem until she became fed up with the care and found specialized care here in D.C. Her Hopkins physicians seemed to be more interested in the academic part of medicine than in seeing patients.

In sum: We never know until we try whether a particular physician will be helpful or not. I am just glad that I noticed your post and responded to it, because at least you now know how easy it is for a thyroid problem to be overlooked. Mine was overlooked by no fewer than four really good physicians who --from 2004 onward--knew I was having problems and were trying to figure out why.

If you ever talk to an endocrinologist who says that a TSH level of 4 is normal, you should run for the nearest door, because any endocrinologist should know better. It would not be surprising, however, if another specialist told you that a TSH level of 4 was not a reason for concern. It happened to me last summer with a rheumatologist who I still think is top-notch. There is SO much information in any of the medical specialties that it is difficult for a physician to stay up-to-date in his or her area of expertise, never mind keeping up with any other area.

I am hoping hard that the rheumatologist is someone helpful with whom you can have a good working relationship, but if not, be sure not to despair. Many of us forum members have had to try more than once to find the help we needed. Please write again with an update, okay?

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Avatar_n_tn
Thanks for your responses.  I will fill you in on my doctor visit.  Thanks for the support and letting me know, I am not crazy!!!!
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Avatar_f_tn
Hi!  I am in Hattiesburg, MS, and I am fed up with docs here!!!  They will NOT hear of the correct lab values changed in approximately 2003 by the American Endocrinology Assocation!!!  My TSH has ranged from 3.7 - 5.3 for years now, with last years being 4.28. Now, I have a lump with nodules in both sides of my thyroid that was found on an ultrasound that I insisted on having...they thought my neck was just sore for "whatever" reason!!  Now, it is March (it took them from Jan. 22 until 1 week ago to write me that something was on the ultrasound!!), yet, they want me to wait until July 19th to see an endocrinologist!  They are NUTTS.  They absolutely insist that their lab is using up to date values for thyroid tests, although I have showed them proof that they are NOT!!! Help!!! Any suggestions!!!  I feel terrible, can not lose a pound, and I am stressed to the max. It is a wonder that I function at all to work. Did I mention that my hair is falling out by the day???  Please wirte me to my email: ***@****
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324691_tn?1302555442
I am not sure if this will help or not , but I will offer my story as a point of reference and let you decide. For the last 6-7 years I noticed subtle changes in my body. My knees hurt at certain times, lower back, tired, unable to sleep, extra energy, no energy etc. All of the symptoms bothered me for about a day or two and then disappeared. Most of the time I thought it was my imagination  or just the "weather, age etc." As time passed some of the symptoms started to run together, so two or three things would happen at the same time. Still, I blamed it on age, menopause, flu bug, etc. Finally in 2004 I had back surgery. Within a few months I felt like a million bucks and thought I had a new lease on life! But eventually, little by little most of my symptoms returned. By 2007, it seemed every join hurt in my body. Instead of 2-3 symptoms , I had a long list and every week I could add a new complaint. My back surgeons attributed my symptoms to spinal cord damage and I went form 2 medications to 6. Pain pills, high blood pressure pills, anti-seizure meds even though I had no history of seizures, and the list goes on. By  July of 2007, I was at my wits end. I had a racing heart, high B/P, anxiety, depression and my body ached from head to toe. My gums were sore, teeth hurt, shakey (shaky) after every meal, out of puff, and I had to use a wheel chair just to go shopping. Eventually, I started to withdraw from family and friends because I got tired of hearing myself complain about how lousy I felt. I believe they thought I was looking for attention.....Finally,  In december of 2007, I had enough...I consulted with a  doc that ran another thyroid tests (scan) and he found out my thyroid was filled with several cysts,a complex tumour along with hot and cold nodules. In January of this year I had a TT. Since then, I have had a terrible time with my meds and adjusting the dose. However, all of the other symptoms stopped! Especially, the aching joints, feeling tired, stomach pains etc. Later I lesrned I had no spinal problems from surgery... Seems this little thing called a thyroid had been making me sick  for a  long before I or my doctor even knew there was a problem with it. What I learned is; this disease is sneaky and everything we ingest in our systems  affects a diseased thyroid long before we even know about it. I have never been the type of person to just accept a prescription and take it just because my doc thinks I should. I have been more of a lets find out why this is happening and lets fix it, type person. However, the docs I had were not interested in listening to me or looking past the obvious to find the real problem or cure. Now I am working overtime to get off of all of the meds they gave me. My journey helped me to see that every new drug they handed me masked the symptoms and because of this it took 7 years to find out what was wrong with me..... The wear and tear on my body has been horrific, not to mention the mental strain. I really don't care what the problem is, we should never have to work this hard to get a doctor to hear us, believe us or heal us.....Like I said before, this is just my story and my idea to share with you all...Best of Luck.
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Avatar_m_tn
My Mom has had Fibromyalgia for about 25 some years and her pain is physically all over.  She usually says her hair is the only thing that doesn't hurt.  She's found that the fibromyalgia is worse due to the weather...especially pressure lows.  Depression is common..because you're so tired and hurt so much you don't have the energy to do anything and pain wears people out.  I would recommend going to your doctor and telling him all this...an antidepressant would improve the pain level slightly and get your spirits up.  Your TSH is 4.0?  Well the new lab values say anything above 3.0 means your hypothyroid and that would definitely decrease your energy level and would make you feel depressed.  Problem is, most labs around the country haven't changed the normal lab value range (even though they changed the values a few years back) and so your test will come back saying your fine.  I suggest asking your doctor who the lab is and contacting them to find out if they are using the new range.
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324691_tn?1302555442
I found this interesting article. It sounds alot like what most of us started with and still have. It ties in to thyroid issues. Just sharing....http://www.opinions3.com/reactive_hypoglycemia.htm
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Avatar_f_tn
Some people become disabled or possibly die in the old normal range. This is medicines BIG money maker. TSH levels are different for everyone. THe TSH test is pretty much worthless and docs need to treat symptoms. A lot of the younger docs do not know much about the thyroid as they are only taught this misleading test. One doc giving a thyroid informational presentation said she only learned about it while doing research for diabetes which ran in her family. Another doc asked how do you treat autoiimmune, Hashimotos, thyroid. You will most likely need to go to an alternative practitioner to get treated. If the medical profession(schools, insurance co., and pharmaceuticals) was ethical, they would look at symptoms and try a small dose of replacement hormone. Thyroid causes everything both mental and physical, and I do mean everything from heart attacks to cancer, balding, infertility etc. Once on replacement you need to be treated to where you feel the best, not by the TSH test.  I will send info from my research if you write PO Box 162, Afton, Tn 37616. I have a couple of pages of good websites and some good books, including medical books.
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Avatar_f_tn
Some people become disabled or possibly die in the old normal range. This is medicines BIG money maker. TSH levels are different for everyone. THe TSH test is pretty much worthless and docs need to treat symptoms. A lot of the younger docs do not know much about the thyroid as they are only taught this misleading test. One doc giving a thyroid informational presentation said she only learned about it while doing research for diabetes which ran in her family. Another doc asked how do you treat autoiimmune, Hashimotos, thyroid. You will most likely need to go to an alternative practitioner to get treated. If the medical profession(schools, insurance co., and pharmaceuticals) was ethical, they would look at symptoms and try a small dose of replacement hormone. Thyroid causes everything both mental and physical, and I do mean everything from heart attacks to cancer, balding, infertility etc. Once on replacement you need to be treated to where you feel the best, not by the TSH test.  I will send info from my research if you write Thyroid, PO Box 162, Afton, Tn 37616. I have a couple of pages of good websites and some good books, including medical books.
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Avatar_n_tn
My dad has a book called a cure for all diseases that claims to have a cure for fibromyalsia (fibromyalgia). By: Helda OR Helga Clark....check it out it also claims to have cures for cancer and hundreds of other diseases. worth reading...and keep an open mind.
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Avatar_f_tn
My pain is less when I take magnesium. Low mag causes muscle knots{ trigger points].My chiro told me tha,.and really helped me. Hope it helps you.
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263988_tn?1281957896
I think the word I hate most when it comes to treating thyroid disease is "normal." Normal for whom? That is the question that needs to be answered. Last time I looked normal was the setting on my dryer for towels and jeans. :)

I was diagnosed with Fibromyalgia in 2000 by a board certified rheumatologist. I finally saw an endocrinologist in 2007 who told me I never had it. He also told me, based on my symptoms and the severity of clinical signs, that I've had Hashi's for over 30 years.

I recently sent away for my medical records dating back to 1991. I found that my TSH ranged from 2.23 to 4.16 and most of the time the doctors never tested anything else but an occasional Total T4 which was always in the lower third. I was quite ill with my TSH at 2.23. And at 4.16, I was a basket case emotionally, physically, and psychologically. I knew nothing about thyroid disease and obviously, neither did any of the doctors I saw.

I found a website just yesterday where a doctor said that any TSH over 2.0 should be suspect for hypothyroidism.

When I was finally diagnosed in 2003 with subclinical hypothyroidism, I had definite clinical signs of long-standing thyroid disease. But, my doctor lacked the knowledge about what defines subclinical hypothyroidism. She thought it was solely based on the TSH's value. Mine was 6.55 and normal top of range was 5.60. So she called it subclinical. She didn't account for any of my long-standing clinical signs. And she never used the FT4 and FT3 to treat me. Subclinical hypothyroidism has NO clinical signs except an abnormal TSH and no symptoms (that was the standard back in 2003). I had a load of symptoms and long-term bradycardia (resting heart rate 35 - 42) dating back to 1976 without physical conditioning.

So with your TSH being 4.0 you qualify as being hypothyroid.

TSH:  4.00    (0.35 - 5.500) **  - high, hypothyroid
Thyroxine (T4):  5.4    (4.5 - 12.0)  - low
T3 Uptake:  25   (24 - 39) - low
Free Thyroxine Index:  1.4    (1.2 - 4.9) - low [should be in upper two thirds of range - halfway mark 3.05]
Triiodothyronine (T3):  133  (85 - 205) - low [should be in upper two thirds of range - halfway mark 145]

I'm not a doctor - I've only learned this information from research into my own symptoms and thyroid disease.
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Avatar_f_tn
Just a little tip from someone who found this out the hard way.  My thyroid symptoms went away completely when I stopped eating cooked foods and began on fresh, raw fruits and veggies.  There's a whole world of information out there on how to prepare recipes (all raw) with sweetners, herbs, spices, etc. to make them so delicious, you never knew it could be so good.  Either the medical profession does not want you to know this OR they are not taught about this in medical school, but I assure you, going back to eating like we're really supposed to will answer many of the medical problems we face as a nation.
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Avatar_f_tn
I am 30 yrs old and have battled with thyroid problems for the last 17 yrs. I have been on every thyroid med possible. For the past year I have not been able to hardly get out of the bed because I hurt so bad. I have had test done to see if I have RA and they came back negative. I suffered from depression at the age of 16 and took every antidepressant on the market, and once I realized the medicine was making my symptoms worse I quit taking it all together. Thank goodness I have not had any depression symptoms for the past 10 yrs. I tried taking Savella, a new drug that came out for fibromyalgia and it made me feel like I was losing my mind. I am currently taking Vicoprofen to take the edge off but that's all it does. Does anyone know of anything else that I could suggest to my doctor to take for the pain?
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Avatar_n_tn
Have Fibromyalgia myself and just recently recognized as having borderline Hypo.  Personally, Flexeril never did a whole lot for me unless it was with other pain medications at the same time.  

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Avatar_f_tn
There is a saying that "misery loves company," well that is so true.  I have been in miserable pain throughout my entire body and talking to my hMO doctor is like talking to the wall.  He said he knows, but the HMO will not approve tests, so i suffere 24/7 in pain and discomfort.  I can barely sleep and the pain is exhausting. I'm sensitiviting to light and have noticed my vision is blurring.  I am not diabetic, I am not overweight, I am 57 and use to walk 5 miles every day at the beach, but now can barely make a 1/2 mile.
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798555_tn?1292791151
This is a very old thread 2007.

Please post new questions for your issues and you will get answers. Some hypos have incredible body pain (I was one). I takes a certain approach to get better. Just a pill might not do it. Must have Free T3 at the upper 1/3 or the top of the range. And possible deep tissue massage or better - trigger point release therapy by some one who knows. Plus magnesium citrate daily. I spent tears learning how to fix my hypo body pain - it is possible. 80% better now.
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