Aa
Hypo or Hyper
I was having trouble sleeping at night went to recheck my labs they were tsh0.16 t3 147 t4 7.5 The lab person said to get off my meds that i was hyper, so I did for about a week, now Im on my meds 1 grain armour and it raises my bp to about 140/98 I get short of breath and dizzy i got off again bp still high felt better for a few days then dizzy still so i got back on meds I dont know if im taking too much or too little with these results.
wow....... thanks for all the advice, going back to Dr on monday. will update then, Happy Mothers Day to all the moms on here.
Thanks for understanding where I was coming from. I feel for you with having to go through all those heart problems. In the last 8 years I have learned so much and sometimes wish any doctor who treats thyroid disease could get a taste of what it's really like so they could understand what people go through. That way they might be open minded about all the available drugs out there and go off a case by case basis and allow each person to use what works for them. I have hypothyroidism on both sides of my family (sister, mother's father, father's mother, father's sisters). It's amazing how each one of us respond to different medications and can't use what the other does.
I'm glad they aren't looking at your TSH anymore to judge what dosage you should be on. It's so sad that so many doctors use it as a single source to alter medication by and say that it's the indictor of your health when it's most certainly not for so many people. I hope they have your thyroid under control and are helping you with the SVT.
Take care,
Chel
I'm glad they aren't looking at your TSH anymore to judge what dosage you should be on. It's so sad that so many doctors use it as a single source to alter medication by and say that it's the indictor of your health when it's most certainly not for so many people. I hope they have your thyroid under control and are helping you with the SVT.
Take care,
Chel
I agree with you completely about the options. We have pitifully few choices when it comes to thyroid hormone replacement, and I think the best thing to do is keep an open mind to all. I have never been on Armour, and probably never will because of the T3 issue, but it royally @#$%es me off when I hear the drug getting slammed for reasons that aren't true. It has and continues to help a lot of people. I think the best thing all of us can do is encourage our doctors to keep all the options open, too. Everyone should be able to get what they need to make them feel well.
It is scary what they put us through. I recently found out that I have "pituitary resistance to thyroid hormones"...fancy way of saying that if they pay attention to my high TSH, they just might kill me with levo. And, yes, I did have to get a bit hyper to prove that! I sympathize with you. My SVT gets my HR up above 200, where it stays no matter what I'm doing until it decides to stop again. Not fun...Luckily, when I went slightly hyper, I knew the symptoms, and I wasn't waiting around too long to start screaming. My TSH is out the window! What a relief!
It is scary what they put us through. I recently found out that I have "pituitary resistance to thyroid hormones"...fancy way of saying that if they pay attention to my high TSH, they just might kill me with levo. And, yes, I did have to get a bit hyper to prove that! I sympathize with you. My SVT gets my HR up above 200, where it stays no matter what I'm doing until it decides to stop again. Not fun...Luckily, when I went slightly hyper, I knew the symptoms, and I wasn't waiting around too long to start screaming. My TSH is out the window! What a relief!
Hi ladies,
I'm sorry but I think my words got a little mixed up or you misread what I wrote. I definitely didn't mean to imply that our own body's T3 can't cause heart related issues. After all that's what hyperthyroidism & Graves disease is- the thyroid working overtime or converting overtime. What I was saying is that "when our bodies are working correctly (ie. in a normal euthyroid state not hypo or hyper) we don't experience heart problems due to T3". If the body is working at 100% what it should, we all produce both hormones in perfect amounts needed for the body to function correctly- it's when that balance gets thrown off that we get problems. I was making the point that there is a reason our own bodies produce both- we do need it. Now, the difference on how much we may need is highly individualized due to our own bodies makeup and chemistry involving numerous other things but we do need it at some level. For those of us who are poor converters of T4 to T3 we may need more T3 added, for those like yourselves you convert very well you may not need to take much if any T3 since your body will convert it for you. In fact sometimes for hyperthyroid patients there bodies may produce the right amount of direct T3 but they overconvert their T4 to T3 so even taking too much T4 can cause hyperthyroid symptoms. For people who have had hyperthyroidism in the past most seem to be pretty good converters so that is why they typically do better on T4 drugs alone than those of us who were hypo only.
I have dealt with too much with having this hit me at such a young age and have been brushed off by too many doctors who wouldn't think outside the box and thought life is a textbook- which it is most certainly not. That's great that T4 is working great for you, I would love to be one of the lucky ones who it did work that well for but I just don't want people to be scared of T3 drugs or be told that they shouldn't try it because it could be what they need to return to the land of the living.
I have personally been through an overdose (medication induced) by Cytomel and know first hand how horrible it feels and how scary it is. My doctors didn't know that my sudden health decline was due to mono and the symptoms were thyroid related but not directly from my thyroid so they increased my thyroid drugs to 3x's the amount I had done very well on with no problems for the 3 previous years. In that time period I went from a resting HR of 53 to periods over 120 when laying down and over 200 when standing. I also experienced major shortness of breath and felt like I was having an asthma attack for 24 hours a day- this all went on for 6-9 months. I would be the last person to ever recommend someone go through that. I just want people to know there are options out there and sometimes the problems we face are because we trust a doctor who doesn't necessarily know everything.
Take care,
Chel
I'm sorry but I think my words got a little mixed up or you misread what I wrote. I definitely didn't mean to imply that our own body's T3 can't cause heart related issues. After all that's what hyperthyroidism & Graves disease is- the thyroid working overtime or converting overtime. What I was saying is that "when our bodies are working correctly (ie. in a normal euthyroid state not hypo or hyper) we don't experience heart problems due to T3". If the body is working at 100% what it should, we all produce both hormones in perfect amounts needed for the body to function correctly- it's when that balance gets thrown off that we get problems. I was making the point that there is a reason our own bodies produce both- we do need it. Now, the difference on how much we may need is highly individualized due to our own bodies makeup and chemistry involving numerous other things but we do need it at some level. For those of us who are poor converters of T4 to T3 we may need more T3 added, for those like yourselves you convert very well you may not need to take much if any T3 since your body will convert it for you. In fact sometimes for hyperthyroid patients there bodies may produce the right amount of direct T3 but they overconvert their T4 to T3 so even taking too much T4 can cause hyperthyroid symptoms. For people who have had hyperthyroidism in the past most seem to be pretty good converters so that is why they typically do better on T4 drugs alone than those of us who were hypo only.
I have dealt with too much with having this hit me at such a young age and have been brushed off by too many doctors who wouldn't think outside the box and thought life is a textbook- which it is most certainly not. That's great that T4 is working great for you, I would love to be one of the lucky ones who it did work that well for but I just don't want people to be scared of T3 drugs or be told that they shouldn't try it because it could be what they need to return to the land of the living.
I have personally been through an overdose (medication induced) by Cytomel and know first hand how horrible it feels and how scary it is. My doctors didn't know that my sudden health decline was due to mono and the symptoms were thyroid related but not directly from my thyroid so they increased my thyroid drugs to 3x's the amount I had done very well on with no problems for the 3 previous years. In that time period I went from a resting HR of 53 to periods over 120 when laying down and over 200 when standing. I also experienced major shortness of breath and felt like I was having an asthma attack for 24 hours a day- this all went on for 6-9 months. I would be the last person to ever recommend someone go through that. I just want people to know there are options out there and sometimes the problems we face are because we trust a doctor who doesn't necessarily know everything.
Take care,
Chel
I agree with you goolarra.
I had a heart attack in 1993 and found to have no blockages whatsoever or heart disease.
Since that time, I suffered with Arrythmia's and then Graves reared its ugly head and 3 episodes of thyroid storm.
Since RAI and TT, I have no problems at all of fast heart rate, tachycardia, bradycardia and for the first time in nearly 50 years, I have no problems with irregular heartrate and doing great on T4 med.
In regards to T3, it is ok for some but not for all....just as Armour is the same.
Chel
The fast heart rate can be caused by excessive T3.
That is the reason I had Thyroid Storm.
I am great on T4 and converting very well.
Also it wasnt just my Doctor of 28 years who said no to T3, my Cardio's who do yearly tests said that Cytomel and Armour can cause excessive fast heartrate that puts strain on the heart muscles and told me that no way would anyone prescribe T3 for me as the T4 converts to T3 very well in my case.
My argument is...if you have a heart condition, then try T4 med first before adding T3.
I have no problem with anyone taking T3....just that they be made aware that it can cause a fast heart rate if they are taking more than their body needs.
Since RAI & TT, I have returned back to work 4 months later and doing 2 jobs.
Something I havent been able to do for at least 2 years prior to RAI so I must be doing something right :)
I had a heart attack in 1993 and found to have no blockages whatsoever or heart disease.
Since that time, I suffered with Arrythmia's and then Graves reared its ugly head and 3 episodes of thyroid storm.
Since RAI and TT, I have no problems at all of fast heart rate, tachycardia, bradycardia and for the first time in nearly 50 years, I have no problems with irregular heartrate and doing great on T4 med.
In regards to T3, it is ok for some but not for all....just as Armour is the same.
Chel
The fast heart rate can be caused by excessive T3.
That is the reason I had Thyroid Storm.
I am great on T4 and converting very well.
Also it wasnt just my Doctor of 28 years who said no to T3, my Cardio's who do yearly tests said that Cytomel and Armour can cause excessive fast heartrate that puts strain on the heart muscles and told me that no way would anyone prescribe T3 for me as the T4 converts to T3 very well in my case.
My argument is...if you have a heart condition, then try T4 med first before adding T3.
I have no problem with anyone taking T3....just that they be made aware that it can cause a fast heart rate if they are taking more than their body needs.
Since RAI & TT, I have returned back to work 4 months later and doing 2 jobs.
Something I havent been able to do for at least 2 years prior to RAI so I must be doing something right :)
Our bodies do produce both T3 and T4. However, the ratio of T4:T3 in Armour is approximately 4-5:1. A normally functioning human thyroid produces T4:T3 in a ratio of about 20:1. So, Armour contains 4-5 times more T3 than our bodies would produce. T3 and heart arrhythmias do not mix.
I disagree that nobody has heart problems related to the T3 that our own bodies produce. I have a congenital heart defect. Now that I'm on levo, if my FT3 gets off the very bottom of the normal range, I start getting increased SVT. Comparing how I feel now to how I felt before being hypo, I have to say that were I to guess, my FT3 was always very low normal. At my current level, I actually am doing better in many respects than I did all my adult life (e.g. I have maintained my weight for over a year...never before in my life). My theory (and it's just that - a theory) is that perhaps my thyroid hormones were always slightly supressed. The body adapts in incredible ways. Was there a relationship between the heart defect and the thyroid levels? My guess is 'yes'...somehow the heart kept the thyroid in check as much as it could without compromising the health of the rest of the body.
Looking back, I also have a pretty good idea of when my thyroid went into that brief hyper period just before it crashed into permanent hypo. My SVT went absolutely wild for about five days. Then it went back to normal and that never happened again until I was on too much levo or it had been increased too rapidly.
I disagree that nobody has heart problems related to the T3 that our own bodies produce. I have a congenital heart defect. Now that I'm on levo, if my FT3 gets off the very bottom of the normal range, I start getting increased SVT. Comparing how I feel now to how I felt before being hypo, I have to say that were I to guess, my FT3 was always very low normal. At my current level, I actually am doing better in many respects than I did all my adult life (e.g. I have maintained my weight for over a year...never before in my life). My theory (and it's just that - a theory) is that perhaps my thyroid hormones were always slightly supressed. The body adapts in incredible ways. Was there a relationship between the heart defect and the thyroid levels? My guess is 'yes'...somehow the heart kept the thyroid in check as much as it could without compromising the health of the rest of the body.
Looking back, I also have a pretty good idea of when my thyroid went into that brief hyper period just before it crashed into permanent hypo. My SVT went absolutely wild for about five days. Then it went back to normal and that never happened again until I was on too much levo or it had been increased too rapidly.
I just wanted to mention something after reading what you wrote. Our bodies, when working correctly, naturally produce both T4 as well as T3 and nobody has heart problems related to that. The difference between Armour and what our bodies naturally produce is the ratio of T3:T4 in Armour is higher. However, it doesn't mean that we shouldn't take T3- after all there is a reason our bodies naturally produce it... because we need it. For people who don't need that high of a ratio they usually add a small amount of Armour to another T4 only drug and that gives them all they need. Part of the reason some hypo people are so sensitive to T3 is that we have weakened cardiovascular systems- due to being left hypothyroid. I'm not sure if you are currently doing very well on your medication or not but I wouldn't rule out taking a very small amount of a T3 containing drug like Armour or Cytomel just yet. Coming from someone who's been misdiagnosed by a total of 18 doctors (it took 3 years and 15 doctors to finally diagnose me with hypothyroidism, and it took 1 1/2 years and 5 more doctors to finally diagnose me with a chronic form of EBV/mono) I don't think that we should take a doctors opinion just because they are a doctor- after all they are human and just like the rest of us they can make mistakes. Sorry but I've been researching this since 2001 because of my difficult case and I hate it when I see someone suffering only because they are given wrong information. You may be doing very well so this might not even apply but if not I just felt I'd like you to know.
Chel
Chel
Maybe you havent given yourself enough time with the labs after stopping/starting the Armour?
Personally I would be going back to your Doctor and getting him/her to re-evaluate your dosage.
I have never taken Armour and doubt whther I ever will be allowed too as I have a heart condition and was told by 3 Cardio's that Armour elevates the heart rate if super drug sensitive (which I am) and can do more harm than good.
My advice would be to take 'baby steps' and go slow on the Armour as your body may be reacting TOO FAST to it.
Just a thought........
Personally I would be going back to your Doctor and getting him/her to re-evaluate your dosage.
I have never taken Armour and doubt whther I ever will be allowed too as I have a heart condition and was told by 3 Cardio's that Armour elevates the heart rate if super drug sensitive (which I am) and can do more harm than good.
My advice would be to take 'baby steps' and go slow on the Armour as your body may be reacting TOO FAST to it.
Just a thought........
Your labs looked completely normal. When you are on Armour your TSH will be suppressed and it doesn't mean that you are overdosed. Your T3 levels are completely within range as well as your T4 and those are the numbers to look at not your TSH. The person at the lab had no right to give you that information. I was well for 3 years with no side effects with a TSH of 0.06 and was not in the least bit hyper. If you were having symptoms of being hyper such as rapid heart beat, headache, rapid weight loss, (think hyperactive child) then having a low TSH could mean something but otherwise there shouldn't be any reason to lower your dose. There are so many reasons for sleeping problems that it could very well be something else and not your thyroid.
Armour has T3 in it so it is raising your levels of T3 you are probably better off to go onto Synthroid or similar which has only T4 instead.
TSH is a pituitary hormone. It is the signal by which your pituitary tells your thyroid to produce more T3 and T4. T3 and T4 are the actual thyroid hormones. In evaluating dosages, T3 and T4 are much more important than TSH. However, TSH was long considered the acid test for evaluating thyroid and the medical community has been very slow to recognize its limitations. I suspect your lab tech is one of these people.
I believe your T3 and T4 results are for total T3 (TT3) and total T4 (TT4). From now on, you should insist on free T3 (FT3) and free T4 (FT4). The totals tell you the total level in your body, but much of that is chemically bound and therefore unabailable to your cells. The free's reveal a lot more of what's going on.
Anyway, working with the numbers you have, your T3 and T4 do not look hyper at all. T3 is in the middle of the range, and so is T4. If you were having trouble sleeping (did you have any other hyper symproms?), a meds dosage tweak might have been a good idea, but I would certainly not have told you to get off your meds (my opinion as a non-doctor).
Are you on the same dose of Armour you were on before the tech told you to stop meds? You might be having a bit of trouble adjusting to resuming your meds because you were off for a week or so. Symptoms could be temporary as your body re-adjusts to resuming meds. You might find you have to take a lower dose for a while and gradually increase, as you pronbably did when you first went on Armour (unles you switched from levo to Armour).
You should probably ask your doctor exactly how to go about this. It's important to get back on a stable dose. Stopping and starting causes its own set of problems.
I hope this helps some. Good luck and I hope you feel better.
I believe your T3 and T4 results are for total T3 (TT3) and total T4 (TT4). From now on, you should insist on free T3 (FT3) and free T4 (FT4). The totals tell you the total level in your body, but much of that is chemically bound and therefore unabailable to your cells. The free's reveal a lot more of what's going on.
Anyway, working with the numbers you have, your T3 and T4 do not look hyper at all. T3 is in the middle of the range, and so is T4. If you were having trouble sleeping (did you have any other hyper symproms?), a meds dosage tweak might have been a good idea, but I would certainly not have told you to get off your meds (my opinion as a non-doctor).
Are you on the same dose of Armour you were on before the tech told you to stop meds? You might be having a bit of trouble adjusting to resuming your meds because you were off for a week or so. Symptoms could be temporary as your body re-adjusts to resuming meds. You might find you have to take a lower dose for a while and gradually increase, as you pronbably did when you first went on Armour (unles you switched from levo to Armour).
You should probably ask your doctor exactly how to go about this. It's important to get back on a stable dose. Stopping and starting causes its own set of problems.
I hope this helps some. Good luck and I hope you feel better.
t3 range is 90-200
t4 range is 4.4-12.4
tsh range is 0.34-3.81
I would greatly appreciate any info you could offer.
t4 range is 4.4-12.4
tsh range is 0.34-3.81
I would greatly appreciate any info you could offer.
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