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Hypo relapse 3 years after diagnosis
I just joined medhelp today. Nice site! Over 3 years ago I went from being the least jealous guy in the United States to being a raging lunatic. My obsession and jealously of my wife was overwhelming. My doctor ordered a blood test and found a TSH level near 7. After a period of synthroid tweaking, I've been 100% back to my normal self for the last 3 years. Two weeks ago the same ugliness crept back in so I went for a blood test and was back to 6.43. I'm up to 125 of synthroid and waiting for results. I wish I would have went as soon as I called my doctor. I actually doubted it for a while and ended up in ugly land. If I would have went as soon as I felt something weird, I may have avoided the bad stuff.
I had been on a blood test schedule of once/year. I'm going to insist on every 3 months indefinitely. Is this the key to keeping things in order? Or can I expect some relapses the rest of my life? I know there's much worse things going on with thyroid conditions out there, but I really can not deal with the jealous rage. We'd be divorced in 3 months if I actually had to live like that. Thanks all!
I had been on a blood test schedule of once/year. I'm going to insist on every 3 months indefinitely. Is this the key to keeping things in order? Or can I expect some relapses the rest of my life? I know there's much worse things going on with thyroid conditions out there, but I really can not deal with the jealous rage. We'd be divorced in 3 months if I actually had to live like that. Thanks all!
Thanks, good info! My doctor is away so I made an appointment for Sept 5. If I don't feel noticeably better by Wednesday, I'm going to contact one of his nurses and see if I can get some of these tests done while he's away.
My wife and I got in our first argument in 3 years. I was drinking heavily at a wedding reception last night and having a great time. I suddenly turned on her and told her that our neighbor is an idiot and she shouldn't be so nice to him and I'm going to beat the crap out of him. He isn't our favorite person, but where this came from is beyond me. I haven't been in a fight since 7th grade! Anyway, I finally was able to call her and apologize sincerely and she's cool with everything. She also called our friends who witnessed it and explaining that I have a major software upgrade today and have been stressing, which is actually true (going well by the way). I don't feel like having a beer or 2 when hypo, rather 10 or 12. I told her if this was permanent, I don't see how I could stay married and stay sober. Sad but true. Thankfully I have a plan to get this under control. Thanks again! All good...
My wife and I got in our first argument in 3 years. I was drinking heavily at a wedding reception last night and having a great time. I suddenly turned on her and told her that our neighbor is an idiot and she shouldn't be so nice to him and I'm going to beat the crap out of him. He isn't our favorite person, but where this came from is beyond me. I haven't been in a fight since 7th grade! Anyway, I finally was able to call her and apologize sincerely and she's cool with everything. She also called our friends who witnessed it and explaining that I have a major software upgrade today and have been stressing, which is actually true (going well by the way). I don't feel like having a beer or 2 when hypo, rather 10 or 12. I told her if this was permanent, I don't see how I could stay married and stay sober. Sad but true. Thankfully I have a plan to get this under control. Thanks again! All good...
Oh I forgot to answer your main question. Its a very small blood test. There are places like "low T center" where you can walk in and they can test you and give you the results while you wait. The "free" testosterone comes helpful after you start therapy to use as a guide to keep you from getting "too much". I doubt your "free" will be too high now since you are not on any testesterone.
Craigdog,
The most important test is testosterone TOTAL. This number should be between 400 and 800. A number like 550, or 600 would be very nice. If you are in the 200's you need replacement therapy. Dont come back with a number like 215 and let your doctor tell you that you are fine. In that case you need to seek a urologist or find someone in your area that will help you with this.
Most of us find that once on therapy (for testosterone) a level around 600-800 is very good and pretty easy to obtain. Start slow and work your way up.
There are mainly ladies on this particular board so if you dont get the testosterone answers you need, please feel free to PM me.
The most important test is testosterone TOTAL. This number should be between 400 and 800. A number like 550, or 600 would be very nice. If you are in the 200's you need replacement therapy. Dont come back with a number like 215 and let your doctor tell you that you are fine. In that case you need to seek a urologist or find someone in your area that will help you with this.
Most of us find that once on therapy (for testosterone) a level around 600-800 is very good and pretty easy to obtain. Start slow and work your way up.
There are mainly ladies on this particular board so if you dont get the testosterone answers you need, please feel free to PM me.
COMMUNITY LEADER
No need to get defensive. I wasn't arguing; I was simply stating additional facts.
Craigdog --- for testosterone testing, I believe you need to get both "free" and "total"......... and they're pretty simple tests.
Craigdog --- for testosterone testing, I believe you need to get both "free" and "total"......... and they're pretty simple tests.
I believe I referred him to the book for more information including food sources, said that this is just basic, that his size could determine dose, and that blood tests would determine deficiencies. Didn't I ???
COMMUNITY LEADER
There are varying opinions regarding the use and/or daily dosages of vitamins/minerals and other supplements. You should always test to be sure you actually need certain vitamins/minerals, since some of them can be toxic, or have side effects, if taken in too high doses. For instance, vitamin B6 can cause more vivid (and disturbing) dreams, particularly, if one is prone to nightmares.
Once tested, you should check with your doctor to make sure you are taking the proper dosages.
Once tested, you should check with your doctor to make sure you are taking the proper dosages.
FT4, FT3 and the 2 types of antibodies are just simple tests included as part of your blood draw.
Because you asked the question, I went back to Arem's book, "The Thyroid Solution" to revisit what the doctor recommends. There is a whole section on WHY he feels these supplements are necessary and also on how to get them from food. I recommend the book, but here is his bottom line:
VIT C 750 - 1000 mg
VIT E 150 - 200 IU
VIT D 1000 IU
Beta-carotene and mixed carotenoids 2000 - 4000 IU (for VIT A)
Selenium 50 - 100 mcg
Zinc 15 - 20 mg
Thiamine (B-1) 1.0 - 1.5 mg
Riboflavin (B-2) 1.5 mg
Niacin (B-3) 15- 20 mg
VIT B-6 50 - 100 mg
Folic acid 400 - 800 mcg
VIT B-12 (cobalamin) 1-2 mcg
(the B's can be taken as B complex, and he recommends the liquid type. I use NOW brand. The cobalamin source is important)
This is just basic. Your needs could vary based on your bulk or your blood tests for deficiencies. The doctor recommends that this vitamin regime be started after the thyroid levels have become normal, or close to normal in hypothyroidism. For hyperthyroidism he recommends taking them while levels are still high. I refer you to his book.
Because you asked the question, I went back to Arem's book, "The Thyroid Solution" to revisit what the doctor recommends. There is a whole section on WHY he feels these supplements are necessary and also on how to get them from food. I recommend the book, but here is his bottom line:
VIT C 750 - 1000 mg
VIT E 150 - 200 IU
VIT D 1000 IU
Beta-carotene and mixed carotenoids 2000 - 4000 IU (for VIT A)
Selenium 50 - 100 mcg
Zinc 15 - 20 mg
Thiamine (B-1) 1.0 - 1.5 mg
Riboflavin (B-2) 1.5 mg
Niacin (B-3) 15- 20 mg
VIT B-6 50 - 100 mg
Folic acid 400 - 800 mcg
VIT B-12 (cobalamin) 1-2 mcg
(the B's can be taken as B complex, and he recommends the liquid type. I use NOW brand. The cobalamin source is important)
This is just basic. Your needs could vary based on your bulk or your blood tests for deficiencies. The doctor recommends that this vitamin regime be started after the thyroid levels have become normal, or close to normal in hypothyroidism. For hyperthyroidism he recommends taking them while levels are still high. I refer you to his book.
Regarding FT3, FT4, and antibody tests...are those simple tests? Is this another check box on my lab sheet for a blood test, or is this more complicated than that?
I know exactly what you mean about insane vs. shutdown. I've been back and forth over the last several days but determined to use mind over matter. It's an ongoing battle, but I'm determined to shield my family until I can get some relief. I'm going to stay busy this weekend and hope the increased synthroid makes a difference by early next week when I plan to see my doctor.
Interest article regarding testosterone levels. Is that a pretty simple test? I guess I'll ask my doctor about that as well. Thanks!
Interest article regarding testosterone levels. Is that a pretty simple test? I guess I'll ask my doctor about that as well. Thanks!
I too understand the cycle of jealousy and mood disorders… before my diagnosis of having the start of hypothyroidism, I would go from having what I felt was very little emotion to having too much… but I think in a male, it affects our aggressive tendencies and leads to jealousy.
I was going to post this in a new thread (and may still do it) but this article shows a correlation between hypothyroidism and levels of testosterone in men. :
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16879621
Basically if your T4 and T3 levels are not sufficient your testosterone levels are affected.
From what I’m seeing, and though my own experience… that just like thyroid levels, testosterone levels (to high or too low) may cause mood disorders for men. And in stressful situations if your thyroid hormone levels are not optimized, and your testosterone is compromised as a result, your adrenals kick in to take over and the fight or flight instinct kicks in and viola… you either shut down and go numb or want to go insane with rage, or fear that something bad is happening and start questioning things and people that otherwise would not affect you!
I was going to post this in a new thread (and may still do it) but this article shows a correlation between hypothyroidism and levels of testosterone in men. :
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16879621
Basically if your T4 and T3 levels are not sufficient your testosterone levels are affected.
From what I’m seeing, and though my own experience… that just like thyroid levels, testosterone levels (to high or too low) may cause mood disorders for men. And in stressful situations if your thyroid hormone levels are not optimized, and your testosterone is compromised as a result, your adrenals kick in to take over and the fight or flight instinct kicks in and viola… you either shut down and go numb or want to go insane with rage, or fear that something bad is happening and start questioning things and people that otherwise would not affect you!
COMMUNITY LEADER
Do be aware that many doctors will tell you that FT3 and FT4 are not important. If your doctor tells you this, don't walk, but run and find a new doctor or you will be kept ill, by inadequate testing/dosing.
Stress does play a major role in the anxiety.
Stress does play a major role in the anxiety.
Thanks all. It sounds like FT3, FT4, and antibody tests are important. I'll schedule an appointment for early next week and research these.tests over the weekend so that I can ask educated questions. Oh yeah, and a wedding and major software upgrade this weekend! Do you think stress has anything to do with my condition?!? lol
I agree with all posters above.
I can tell you that i know 2 guys that were on a steady dose and seemed to be doing well for a while on a steady small dose and then BAM! something changed and they became very unstable, the slightest thing irritated them, and they wanted to shred anyone that came into contact with them. I personally believe this was from the thyroid going from a slow deterioration to a more sped up mode of destruction that was too much for the dose of thyroid they were on. They are now battling it out trying to get proper with the meds they are on.
I can also tell you that anxiety was horrid for me personally, sometimes i would hide in the closet from my family and pretend like i was busy doing something because something very small could simply "set me off".
I can tell you that i know 2 guys that were on a steady dose and seemed to be doing well for a while on a steady small dose and then BAM! something changed and they became very unstable, the slightest thing irritated them, and they wanted to shred anyone that came into contact with them. I personally believe this was from the thyroid going from a slow deterioration to a more sped up mode of destruction that was too much for the dose of thyroid they were on. They are now battling it out trying to get proper with the meds they are on.
I can also tell you that anxiety was horrid for me personally, sometimes i would hide in the closet from my family and pretend like i was busy doing something because something very small could simply "set me off".
COMMUNITY LEADER
You really need to get FT3/FT4 tests done.
Both hyper and hypo can cause mood swings.
If you haven't had thyroid antibodies (not the same as those for Crohn's), you need to. Get Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies (TPOab) and Thyroglobulin Antibodies (TGab) to test for Hashimoto's and get Thyroid Stimulating Immunoglobulins (TSI) to test for Graves. You need ALL of these tests to determine your status.
You might also want to note that Crohn's is an autoimmune and once a person has one autoimmune, the chances of them getting another are greater.
Both hyper and hypo can cause mood swings.
If you haven't had thyroid antibodies (not the same as those for Crohn's), you need to. Get Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies (TPOab) and Thyroglobulin Antibodies (TGab) to test for Hashimoto's and get Thyroid Stimulating Immunoglobulins (TSI) to test for Graves. You need ALL of these tests to determine your status.
You might also want to note that Crohn's is an autoimmune and once a person has one autoimmune, the chances of them getting another are greater.
Just to be clear, the jealous rage is in my mind and I sleep 2-3 hrs per night. My wife told me she hasn't really noticed. I'm getting good at hiding it.
And yes, I have a history of auto immune condions (treatable crohn's, terrible iritis when I was younger, etc.)
Yes, my family doc only tests tsh. I meant to ask about the other tests 3 years ago but the synthroid did the job so I trusted his judgement. I will ask about the other 3, thanks!
COMMUNITY LEADER
I agree that FT3 is the primary reason for mood swings when hypo.
Is TSH the only thing that's being tested? Rather than insist on testing every 3 months, you should insist on testing for the FT3 and FT4 hormones. Those are the actual thyroid hormones that drive your body.
TSH is an "indicator" at best, of thyroid function.
Also agree that you need to have thyroid antibodies tested, because if you have Hashimoto's, which is the most common cause of hypothyroidism in the developed world, you will need periodic adjustments in your medication, until your thyroid is completely destroyed and no longer producing hormones. At that point, you might be able to level out.
For each medication adjustment, you should retest in 6 weeks; if your levels become stable, you can drop down to every 3 months, then 6 months. You should always get retested at the first sign of symptoms.
Do be aware that thyroid conditions are not the only thing that can cause those rages. Been there, done that.
Is TSH the only thing that's being tested? Rather than insist on testing every 3 months, you should insist on testing for the FT3 and FT4 hormones. Those are the actual thyroid hormones that drive your body.
TSH is an "indicator" at best, of thyroid function.
Also agree that you need to have thyroid antibodies tested, because if you have Hashimoto's, which is the most common cause of hypothyroidism in the developed world, you will need periodic adjustments in your medication, until your thyroid is completely destroyed and no longer producing hormones. At that point, you might be able to level out.
For each medication adjustment, you should retest in 6 weeks; if your levels become stable, you can drop down to every 3 months, then 6 months. You should always get retested at the first sign of symptoms.
Do be aware that thyroid conditions are not the only thing that can cause those rages. Been there, done that.
Have you had your FREE T3 tested ? Low T3 is often the culprit in mood disorders with hypothyroidism. Sounds like you are only taking T4. Have you had Hashimoto's antibody testing done as well ? It could be that you are experiencing a deterioration of your thyroid due to auto immune response or a period of thyroiditis.
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