Aa
I think I need T3 but doc says no way
I have been taking synthroid for about 2 months now after finally being diagnosed. I started on .5 and within a week started feeling better. However...after the third week started feeling run down again. Called the doc and he increased to .75. Started to feel better again and just had my blood retested. I think I need some t3 added to synthroid but doc says all is normal.
Here's the last labs...
TSH 0.89.....started out at 3.5
FT4 1.1....started our at .9 lab range is 0.8-1.8
FT3 319...started out at 319 lab range is 230-420
Although I'm much better I'm still having hypo symptoms; achiness, joint pain, etc.
My morning temp is still under 97 and my pulse still under 60.
However, My family physician, not the endo that is treating me, has wanted to put me on cholesterol meds for about three years. I wouldn't do it! After the synthroid my levels have dropped from 270 to 183 with LDL and HDL doing the same. On the right track but not quite there yet.
So what do you all think...agree with me or the doc about the t3?
Thanks
Here's the last labs...
TSH 0.89.....started out at 3.5
FT4 1.1....started our at .9 lab range is 0.8-1.8
FT3 319...started out at 319 lab range is 230-420
Although I'm much better I'm still having hypo symptoms; achiness, joint pain, etc.
My morning temp is still under 97 and my pulse still under 60.
However, My family physician, not the endo that is treating me, has wanted to put me on cholesterol meds for about three years. I wouldn't do it! After the synthroid my levels have dropped from 270 to 183 with LDL and HDL doing the same. On the right track but not quite there yet.
So what do you all think...agree with me or the doc about the t3?
Thanks
COMMUNITY LEADER
I'll go along with what goolarra and Deb said --- baby steps.
Would also like to try to put your mind at ease a bit about your TSH. First off as goolarra said - it's not a concern. MY TSH runs between 0.01 & 0.03 --- almost 0...I'm on 75 mcg levo, alternating with 88 mcg (that's 75 one day/88 the next) + 5 mcg cytomel/day. Goolarra is the one who put me onto the "alternating" dosage idea and so far it's working - you need to listen to mom.........lol. I do have a bit of trouble with an "afternoon slump" and driving home from work is sometimes a challenge to say the least...........
That said, I also agree with goolarra and Deb about bringing up your FT4 and your FT3 should follow, but it could take a while - I've been adding cytomel since January and my FT3 is just now at the level of yours - that's NINE (9) months it's taken me to get where you are now........oh, woe is me!!!! lol
Best of luck and sending patience your way...........
Would also like to try to put your mind at ease a bit about your TSH. First off as goolarra said - it's not a concern. MY TSH runs between 0.01 & 0.03 --- almost 0...I'm on 75 mcg levo, alternating with 88 mcg (that's 75 one day/88 the next) + 5 mcg cytomel/day. Goolarra is the one who put me onto the "alternating" dosage idea and so far it's working - you need to listen to mom.........lol. I do have a bit of trouble with an "afternoon slump" and driving home from work is sometimes a challenge to say the least...........
That said, I also agree with goolarra and Deb about bringing up your FT4 and your FT3 should follow, but it could take a while - I've been adding cytomel since January and my FT3 is just now at the level of yours - that's NINE (9) months it's taken me to get where you are now........oh, woe is me!!!! lol
Best of luck and sending patience your way...........
I'll second Deb's comment...baby steps. I agree it takes a while for the FT3 to balance out (and cach up). I've been on a stable dose of levo since March, and my FT3 has continued to rise during that time. Good luck and keep us posted!
Mom
Mom
Baby steps lol......
I too thought I had a T4 conversion problem at the start...seems it balanced out in the long run and now I go hyper TOO quickly so as I said.....
Baby steps :)
And a he// of a lot of patience lol
I too thought I had a T4 conversion problem at the start...seems it balanced out in the long run and now I go hyper TOO quickly so as I said.....
Baby steps :)
And a he// of a lot of patience lol
Hey Mom...just wanted to let you all know the Doc stopped all Cytomel and raised my Levothyroxine dose from .75 to 100. (.75 with a 50 cut in half) He says in time it should convert.
Me
Me
Well, you've been all over the place with your meds. If there's one thing that's important, it's consistency. You have to stick with one thing long enough to give it time to do its thing.
Yes, your FT4 is low, your FT3 is midrange (almost). What's the logical thing to do here, Grasshopper? As I said, my FT3 took quite a while to catch up. I'd add some T4, wait four weeks, get retested, and go from there.
Your TSH doesn't matter a bit to me. Some people have to be near zero before their hypo symptoms are relieved. TSH needs to go to sleep. Hyper symptoms are what you need to watch out for.
Dad's name, dad's name...let me think...oops hypo brain fog...can't remember.
Love, Mama
Yes, your FT4 is low, your FT3 is midrange (almost). What's the logical thing to do here, Grasshopper? As I said, my FT3 took quite a while to catch up. I'd add some T4, wait four weeks, get retested, and go from there.
Your TSH doesn't matter a bit to me. Some people have to be near zero before their hypo symptoms are relieved. TSH needs to go to sleep. Hyper symptoms are what you need to watch out for.
Dad's name, dad's name...let me think...oops hypo brain fog...can't remember.
Love, Mama
Thanks mom...actually, I'm listening to Richard Prior right now!!! just kidding
So you don't have to look...last labs after being on .50 for four weeks and then .75 for about eight.
FT4 1.1 (.8-1.8)
FT3 321 (230-420)
FT3 hasn't budged since the beginning except to go down slighty four weeks after starting Levo. Then back up to the original 321.
I guess I'm in need of some more T4?
It doesn't matter that my TSH is now 0.92 does it? It can actually be zero as long as no hyper symptoms correct? Hopefully the FT3 will go up sometime?
I'll let you know.
How do I know you're not ugly enough to be my mother...besides, I look like my dad.
What was his name anyway?
So you don't have to look...last labs after being on .50 for four weeks and then .75 for about eight.
FT4 1.1 (.8-1.8)
FT3 321 (230-420)
FT3 hasn't budged since the beginning except to go down slighty four weeks after starting Levo. Then back up to the original 321.
I guess I'm in need of some more T4?
It doesn't matter that my TSH is now 0.92 does it? It can actually be zero as long as no hyper symptoms correct? Hopefully the FT3 will go up sometime?
I'll let you know.
How do I know you're not ugly enough to be my mother...besides, I look like my dad.
What was his name anyway?
Hi, Problem Child.
Have you had any other labs since the ones posted in the very first post on this long thread?
I said way up there somewhere (it's my story, and I'm sticking to it!) that I thought you needed to get your FT4 up. Your FT3 is almost midrange. Your FT4 is low. When FT4 comes up, so will FT3. If my experience is worth anything, my FT3 increased significantly with a very small increase in FT4. It also continued to increase with no change in FT4 (perhaps FT3 takes a while to catch up?). I'd increase the levo. I won't be convinced you need T3 meds until your FT4 is well up in the range and your FT3 remains low.
In my (much) younger days, I worked with emotionally disturbed children in the inner city...no, I'm not comparing you to them! These kids had a Richard Prior tape that they played so much that I still can recite most of it from memory. Every time you call me "Mom", it brings to mind his line, "I ain't old enough or ugly enough to be yo' mama!" LOL
T3 is powerful stuff. But if you can't even tolerate 5 mcg split into two doses, I'd work on the T4. And remember, it's not going to happen over night. Be patient, my son.
Have you had any other labs since the ones posted in the very first post on this long thread?
I said way up there somewhere (it's my story, and I'm sticking to it!) that I thought you needed to get your FT4 up. Your FT3 is almost midrange. Your FT4 is low. When FT4 comes up, so will FT3. If my experience is worth anything, my FT3 increased significantly with a very small increase in FT4. It also continued to increase with no change in FT4 (perhaps FT3 takes a while to catch up?). I'd increase the levo. I won't be convinced you need T3 meds until your FT4 is well up in the range and your FT3 remains low.
In my (much) younger days, I worked with emotionally disturbed children in the inner city...no, I'm not comparing you to them! These kids had a Richard Prior tape that they played so much that I still can recite most of it from memory. Every time you call me "Mom", it brings to mind his line, "I ain't old enough or ugly enough to be yo' mama!" LOL
T3 is powerful stuff. But if you can't even tolerate 5 mcg split into two doses, I'd work on the T4. And remember, it's not going to happen over night. Be patient, my son.
Hey Mom...long time not talk!
Well...here's the update. Couldn't tolerate Armour (1grain) gave me a headache and messed up my stomach, couldn't take Naturethroid (1/2 grain)
gave me a headache and messed up my stomach, now, I've been on Cytomel (5mcg cut in half. one half in the morning the other around 3p.m.) guess what...gives me a headache and messes up my stomach. I haven't called the Dr. yet...just wanted to get your opinion before I do. I have stopped it and gone back on it...(gave it two days) all the symptoms disappeard and then came back when I started taking it again.
I'm still on the original 75 of Levo but...my hypo symptoms have started to get worse again. So what is one to do if he has low FT3 and can't tolerate T3 meds?
HELP!
Well...here's the update. Couldn't tolerate Armour (1grain) gave me a headache and messed up my stomach, couldn't take Naturethroid (1/2 grain)
gave me a headache and messed up my stomach, now, I've been on Cytomel (5mcg cut in half. one half in the morning the other around 3p.m.) guess what...gives me a headache and messes up my stomach. I haven't called the Dr. yet...just wanted to get your opinion before I do. I have stopped it and gone back on it...(gave it two days) all the symptoms disappeard and then came back when I started taking it again.
I'm still on the original 75 of Levo but...my hypo symptoms have started to get worse again. So what is one to do if he has low FT3 and can't tolerate T3 meds?
HELP!
Wow, sounds like quite a day! Maybe you should start Hypo Shuttle...you could fly around the country picking up thyroid patients and ferrying them to Pennsylvania!
Well, it sounds like it was worth the trip. I've read a number of scathing exposes of the health care industry lately. In one, one doctor was quoted as saying that if you listen to your patients, they will tell you exactly what's wrong with them, and if you listen really hard, they will also tell you how to treat them. What a great comment. It's amazing how much we've learned health-wise, and how little it has gained us in improved care. The art of healing has been replaced by the science of medicine. There is no replacement for listening to the patient. Whew! Just look at the tangent you sent mom off on!!!
It sounds like he will be really good. I'm anxious to see how you do on the combo therapy. An hour and a half is almost unheard of.
Somehow, I doubt it's the government that's trying to kill natural thyroid products...much more likely Big Pharma. They've been attempting that ever since they developed their symthetics. Nice to be able to ignore the fact that it worked perfectly well for the first half of the twentieth century when there was no alternative.
Keep us posted on how you go.
Well, it sounds like it was worth the trip. I've read a number of scathing exposes of the health care industry lately. In one, one doctor was quoted as saying that if you listen to your patients, they will tell you exactly what's wrong with them, and if you listen really hard, they will also tell you how to treat them. What a great comment. It's amazing how much we've learned health-wise, and how little it has gained us in improved care. The art of healing has been replaced by the science of medicine. There is no replacement for listening to the patient. Whew! Just look at the tangent you sent mom off on!!!
It sounds like he will be really good. I'm anxious to see how you do on the combo therapy. An hour and a half is almost unheard of.
Somehow, I doubt it's the government that's trying to kill natural thyroid products...much more likely Big Pharma. They've been attempting that ever since they developed their symthetics. Nice to be able to ignore the fact that it worked perfectly well for the first half of the twentieth century when there was no alternative.
Keep us posted on how you go.
Ok...I flew most of the day and drove the rest but I've been to the doctor!!!
I really liked him. He listened to what I had to say and told me what he thought...then he asked me what I thought of what he thought. He said that he likes patients that were involved in their treatment and that it usually makes his job easier because we live with our bodies 24/7 and usually have some good insight to what is right. Anyway...said I was way undertreated and added one grain of Armour to what I was already taking. Will do blood testing in 6 wks and go from there. Also said that the government was in the process of killing the natural thyroid products and we may have to go to plan "B" after a while. I was in his office talking with him for 1 and a half hours.
I really liked him. He listened to what I had to say and told me what he thought...then he asked me what I thought of what he thought. He said that he likes patients that were involved in their treatment and that it usually makes his job easier because we live with our bodies 24/7 and usually have some good insight to what is right. Anyway...said I was way undertreated and added one grain of Armour to what I was already taking. Will do blood testing in 6 wks and go from there. Also said that the government was in the process of killing the natural thyroid products and we may have to go to plan "B" after a while. I was in his office talking with him for 1 and a half hours.
Sorry, son, vitamins are not my thing. However, I do have an opinion (what a surprise!!!) on vitamins in general, and I share this opinion with my nutritionist sister-in-law. Supplements should only be used as a last resort, when you simply cannot get the vitamin or whatever from your food. Why? Because the foods naturally rich in a vitamin may contain trace amounts of some other substance that enhances that vitamin's effect on your body. You can google D foods...mushrooms are little vitamin D bombs...ostensibly because they're grown in the dark. Just a thought...
Ok....the rest of the labs are in Mom and Tamra
On 50,000 units once a week my D level rose from 21 to 51. Then I went on 1,000 units four times a day and it's going back down...latest levels 45. Any idea of what causes low vitamin D levels in the first place? (I've been getting plenty of sun and have a tan like George Hamilton! LOL!) I think the levels should be closer to 80 for optimum...what do you guys think? Now...I'm going to watch TV until my appointment on Monday!
On 50,000 units once a week my D level rose from 21 to 51. Then I went on 1,000 units four times a day and it's going back down...latest levels 45. Any idea of what causes low vitamin D levels in the first place? (I've been getting plenty of sun and have a tan like George Hamilton! LOL!) I think the levels should be closer to 80 for optimum...what do you guys think? Now...I'm going to watch TV until my appointment on Monday!
Taking both T3 and T4 will suppress your TSH. No, it cannot go negative! But TSH is not all it's cracked up to be. It's time it was toppled off it's "gold standard" pedestal. Your current doctor is less than ideal...the thyroid guy can't be anything but better.
Now, go watch TV or something until your appointment!
Now, go watch TV or something until your appointment!
Do I have to answer you more than once? Sorry...couldn't resist.
I was on 50,000 units once a week for two months. It went from the original 21 to 51. I changed doctors and stopped the 50,000 units and now take 1,000 three to four times per day. I also make sure that I get more sun on my face...living in Ohio during the winter though it will be all supplements. I just had it tested with these latest labs but it is still pending. We'll see shortly how I'm doing.
My B12 was also low at 308. range 200-1100) with a disclaimer on the lab sheet that some people with a level <400 could show neurological symptoms. (Had them) Even with that the Dr. wouldn't start injections and said it looked ok to him. Knowing that some hypo folks have trouble absorbing B-12 through the stomach, I started on sublingual tabs....1000 per. 3 or 4 times per day. This last lab showed it had come up to 722.
I was on 50,000 units once a week for two months. It went from the original 21 to 51. I changed doctors and stopped the 50,000 units and now take 1,000 three to four times per day. I also make sure that I get more sun on my face...living in Ohio during the winter though it will be all supplements. I just had it tested with these latest labs but it is still pending. We'll see shortly how I'm doing.
My B12 was also low at 308. range 200-1100) with a disclaimer on the lab sheet that some people with a level <400 could show neurological symptoms. (Had them) Even with that the Dr. wouldn't start injections and said it looked ok to him. Knowing that some hypo folks have trouble absorbing B-12 through the stomach, I started on sublingual tabs....1000 per. 3 or 4 times per day. This last lab showed it had come up to 722.
Thanks Mom!
Well, at least one of your children has to be a little half witted! LOL!
With more Levo...wouldn't my TSH go down even further? How far down can it possibly go....0? BUT...I guess that really doesn't matter too much now does it? Undermedicated is undermedicated. My appointment is Monday...We'll see what he says. My current doc has quit answering my questions and said "Everything looks fine and I'll see you in six months". Well, if everything is fine then why do I feel like $#*&%@#%? Anyway..I believe you're right...I'm undermedicated.
I thought NDT meant Natural Dessicated Thyroid. Thanks again for your help!
Well, at least one of your children has to be a little half witted! LOL!
With more Levo...wouldn't my TSH go down even further? How far down can it possibly go....0? BUT...I guess that really doesn't matter too much now does it? Undermedicated is undermedicated. My appointment is Monday...We'll see what he says. My current doc has quit answering my questions and said "Everything looks fine and I'll see you in six months". Well, if everything is fine then why do I feel like $#*&%@#%? Anyway..I believe you're right...I'm undermedicated.
I thought NDT meant Natural Dessicated Thyroid. Thanks again for your help!
Good Morning, Problem Child!
The last two labs I would consider to fall into the "absolutely no change" category. Those minute differences aren't even worth talking about. However, they do offer some valuable information...your labs have definitely stabilized on your current dose.
I still maintain (it's my story, and I'm sticking to it!) that you need to raise your FT4. Yes, you're in range, but it needs to come up further. You are still undermedicated. Your FT4 is still low enough that your body is still in "rationing" mode. It protects the vital systems by making sure brain, heart, etc. get adequate supplies...muscles and other less vital systems can wait.
I'm not familiar with the acronym NDT, but I'm assuming you mean dessicated pig thyroid? Pig thyroid contains a fairly high dose of FT3, so, yes, it should bring your FT3 up. Once again, you will have to go through the trial and error process of finding the right dose. However, your current dose of levo should be a good guide for your doctor to base the natural thyroid on. I also think raising your dose of levo would do the same thing.
I'll be looking forward to hearing what the thyroid doctor has to say.
The last two labs I would consider to fall into the "absolutely no change" category. Those minute differences aren't even worth talking about. However, they do offer some valuable information...your labs have definitely stabilized on your current dose.
I still maintain (it's my story, and I'm sticking to it!) that you need to raise your FT4. Yes, you're in range, but it needs to come up further. You are still undermedicated. Your FT4 is still low enough that your body is still in "rationing" mode. It protects the vital systems by making sure brain, heart, etc. get adequate supplies...muscles and other less vital systems can wait.
I'm not familiar with the acronym NDT, but I'm assuming you mean dessicated pig thyroid? Pig thyroid contains a fairly high dose of FT3, so, yes, it should bring your FT3 up. Once again, you will have to go through the trial and error process of finding the right dose. However, your current dose of levo should be a good guide for your doctor to base the natural thyroid on. I also think raising your dose of levo would do the same thing.
I'll be looking forward to hearing what the thyroid doctor has to say.
I have no idea why my computer posted so many times. It just went haywire.
Sorry.
:) Tamra
Sorry.
:) Tamra
This is a wonderful discussion with so many informed members!!!
Flys4Food, I read that you raised your D to a 50. Are you doing anything else now to maintain your D and your other vitamins? Once you get that D up (50 is still low IMHO) you need to maintain it with supplements.
This could alleviate some of this pain in your joints/muscles. It worked for me!
Take care...
:) Tamra
Flys4Food, I read that you raised your D to a 50. Are you doing anything else now to maintain your D and your other vitamins? Once you get that D up (50 is still low IMHO) you need to maintain it with supplements.
This could alleviate some of this pain in your joints/muscles. It worked for me!
Take care...
:) Tamra
This is a wonderful discussion with so many informed members!!!
Flys4Food, I read that you raised your D to a 50. Are you doing anything else now to maintain your D and your other vitamins? Once you get that D up (50 is still low IMHO) you need to maintain it with supplements.
This could alleviate some of this pain in your joints/muscles. It worked for me!
Take care...
:) Tamra
Flys4Food, I read that you raised your D to a 50. Are you doing anything else now to maintain your D and your other vitamins? Once you get that D up (50 is still low IMHO) you need to maintain it with supplements.
This could alleviate some of this pain in your joints/muscles. It worked for me!
Take care...
:) Tamra
This is a wonderful discussion with so many informed members!!!
Flys4Food, I read that you raised your D to a 50. Are you doing anything else now to maintain your D and your other vitamins? Once you get that D up (50 is still low IMHO) you need to maintain it with supplements.
This could alleviate some of this pain in your joints/muscles. It worked for me!
Take care...
:) Tamra
Flys4Food, I read that you raised your D to a 50. Are you doing anything else now to maintain your D and your other vitamins? Once you get that D up (50 is still low IMHO) you need to maintain it with supplements.
This could alleviate some of this pain in your joints/muscles. It worked for me!
Take care...
:) Tamra
This is a wonderful discussion with so many informed members!!!
Flys4Food, I read that you raised your D to a 50. Are you doing anything else now to maintain your D and your other vitamins? Once you get that D up (50 is still low IMHO) you need to maintain it with supplements.
This could alleviate some of this pain in your joints/muscles. It worked for me!
Take care...
:) Tamra
Flys4Food, I read that you raised your D to a 50. Are you doing anything else now to maintain your D and your other vitamins? Once you get that D up (50 is still low IMHO) you need to maintain it with supplements.
This could alleviate some of this pain in your joints/muscles. It worked for me!
Take care...
:) Tamra
Hey...long time no talk! Just wanted your, and everone else's input on my new labs.
I'm getting ready to go to Pennsylvania to the hormone restoration doc there.
I have now been on the increased dose of .75 mg. of Levothyroxine for almost three months and, to keep you from reading this long list...I'll give you the labs histories.
Initially after three weeks new lab
TSH 3.26 range .40-4.50 0.89 0.92
FT3 321 range 230-420 319 321
FT4 0.9 range 0.8-1.8 1.1 1.1
Sooooo, my TSH has gone down but....my FT4 has only come up a little and my FT3 really hasn't budged!
I started feeling better after about seven days initially and then nose-dived and the dr. increased the dose to .75. Again, I felt better after a few days and then nosed dived.
I'm better than when I started but still have many hypo symptoms including muscle aches and pains, fatigue, and running out of gas in the afternoon, etc. My morning temp has come up to 96.8 ( from 95.8-96.2) and on some days actually makes it to 98.6 by afternoon.
I would like to see my FT4 come up a little bit more and my FT3 moving towards the top of the range...what do you think? What do I need from here. I'm pretty sure this new doc will put me on a NDT...will this take care of the problem? Why the heck won't my FT3 budge...even a little?
I have no hyper symptoms whatsoever.
thanks
Flys4Food
I'm getting ready to go to Pennsylvania to the hormone restoration doc there.
I have now been on the increased dose of .75 mg. of Levothyroxine for almost three months and, to keep you from reading this long list...I'll give you the labs histories.
Initially after three weeks new lab
TSH 3.26 range .40-4.50 0.89 0.92
FT3 321 range 230-420 319 321
FT4 0.9 range 0.8-1.8 1.1 1.1
Sooooo, my TSH has gone down but....my FT4 has only come up a little and my FT3 really hasn't budged!
I started feeling better after about seven days initially and then nose-dived and the dr. increased the dose to .75. Again, I felt better after a few days and then nosed dived.
I'm better than when I started but still have many hypo symptoms including muscle aches and pains, fatigue, and running out of gas in the afternoon, etc. My morning temp has come up to 96.8 ( from 95.8-96.2) and on some days actually makes it to 98.6 by afternoon.
I would like to see my FT4 come up a little bit more and my FT3 moving towards the top of the range...what do you think? What do I need from here. I'm pretty sure this new doc will put me on a NDT...will this take care of the problem? Why the heck won't my FT3 budge...even a little?
I have no hyper symptoms whatsoever.
thanks
Flys4Food
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