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Joint Pain, Hair loss, "normal" TSH?
Hey there. So every woman in my family (mom, aunt, cousin and grandmother) have hypothyroidism. For the past 9 months, I started having pain in the ball and big toe of my right foot. About 3 months ago, it started occurring in my left foot. Since then, I have developed bizarre joint pain in my feet, knees, wrist, fingers.. etc. Some days my left knee and right finger will hurt.. some days my wrist... it seems to move around, and doesn't necessarily occur on both sides of my body.
I also have general fatigue, low libido, and my appetite seems to have faded. I'm 5'6 and 128 pounds and have a lot of muscle. (I lift weights and generally feel strong, but tired..) Definitely not having weight gain... but the SCARIEST symptoms I have noticed for the last 3 weeks has been HAIR LOSS. It is quite devastating. It is definitely diffuse, which means it is general thinning (no bald patches). People in my life say they don't notice, but I feel as though half my hair is gone. Every time I gently stroke my hair (not pull) I get 15-20 strands... and this happens over 20-30 times per day. I am afraid that if this keeps going on in one month I will be bald!
I'm in the process of waiting for test results,.... My TSH came back 2.18.... but I begged my doctor to test me for free T3 and free T4... so hopefully those will show SOMETHING. I thought maybe I had rheumatoid arthritis, but he said the rheumatic antibodies didn't show up... I know I have been on the low ends of folic acid, b12 and iron in the past.. so i'm wondering if I am deficient. Though finding out I am deficient isn't an easy answer. The question would be, why am I not ABSORBING all of the nutrition I eat? I often see food in my stool (greens, grains if i eat them, nuts, etc.) I eat gluten free, a lot of grass-fed ALL LOCAL meat, local eggs, all organically grown veggies. I drink tons of nutrient rich mineral teas (nettles, raspberry leaf, oatstraw, red clover), drink bone broth every day... I take cod liver oil and fish oil pills, & vitamin d. I suspected that I could be low in Intrinsic Factor? It just doesn't make sense how I could be low on these things, ESPECIALLY b12 and iron considering the amount of high quality meat and eggs that i eat.
Could anyone offer any help? or theories on what this all could be? Thank you!
I also have general fatigue, low libido, and my appetite seems to have faded. I'm 5'6 and 128 pounds and have a lot of muscle. (I lift weights and generally feel strong, but tired..) Definitely not having weight gain... but the SCARIEST symptoms I have noticed for the last 3 weeks has been HAIR LOSS. It is quite devastating. It is definitely diffuse, which means it is general thinning (no bald patches). People in my life say they don't notice, but I feel as though half my hair is gone. Every time I gently stroke my hair (not pull) I get 15-20 strands... and this happens over 20-30 times per day. I am afraid that if this keeps going on in one month I will be bald!
I'm in the process of waiting for test results,.... My TSH came back 2.18.... but I begged my doctor to test me for free T3 and free T4... so hopefully those will show SOMETHING. I thought maybe I had rheumatoid arthritis, but he said the rheumatic antibodies didn't show up... I know I have been on the low ends of folic acid, b12 and iron in the past.. so i'm wondering if I am deficient. Though finding out I am deficient isn't an easy answer. The question would be, why am I not ABSORBING all of the nutrition I eat? I often see food in my stool (greens, grains if i eat them, nuts, etc.) I eat gluten free, a lot of grass-fed ALL LOCAL meat, local eggs, all organically grown veggies. I drink tons of nutrient rich mineral teas (nettles, raspberry leaf, oatstraw, red clover), drink bone broth every day... I take cod liver oil and fish oil pills, & vitamin d. I suspected that I could be low in Intrinsic Factor? It just doesn't make sense how I could be low on these things, ESPECIALLY b12 and iron considering the amount of high quality meat and eggs that i eat.
Could anyone offer any help? or theories on what this all could be? Thank you!
Hair loss and heavy periods are hypo symptoms. If they continue, you may want to reconsider the idea that your thyroid is already regulated at the baby dose of 25mcg. What are your latest thyroid test results (with ranges)? It takes a long time to raise iron-- however, is the percentage number you mentioned Saturation? It's important to know the lab values for ferritin as well. Ferritin is especially important when hair loss is a symptom.
From another article "4 Common Betaine HCl Mistakes"...
"Here’s some signs that you might be suffering from low stomach acid:
Indigestion
Gas
Bloating
Undigested food in your stool
Acid reflux
GERD
Constipation
Diarrhea
Malabsorption
Nutrient deficiencies"
"Here’s some signs that you might be suffering from low stomach acid:
Indigestion
Gas
Bloating
Undigested food in your stool
Acid reflux
GERD
Constipation
Diarrhea
Malabsorption
Nutrient deficiencies"
Absorption of at least 8 nutrients are dependent on adequate stomach acid: calcium, folate, vitamin B12, magnesium, zinc, iron, vitamin C, beta carotene. Check out the article: "3 Tests for Low Stomach Acid — SCD Lifestyle".
Hey everyone. So after six weeks of levothyroxine at 25mcg my thyroid seems to be normal. However my joint pain and hair loss are still active. For the last six weeks I have done two natural iron + b vitamin supplements. One is the liquid iron + b Floravital. I also took MegaFood Blood Builder which has Iron + b12 + folic acid. My doctor didn't test me for b vitamins unfortunately during this six week blood test... but he did just check my iron. My Iron 6 weeks ago was 29% saturation, and now it is 18%! This seems absolutely crazy to me. For the first time in my life I started an iron supplement, (in fact TWO), I have been eating liver at least once a week, having bone broth every day, fermented foods, meat at least twice/day, and upping my amounts of kale, chard, beet greens, broccoli, brussel sprouts etc. I was also taking vitamin c 1-2 times per day with my iron supplement. (I space my iron dosage over 3 times per day) How on EARTH could my iron go down 11% after starting this iron rich protocol??
I do know that when I got the blood test six weeks ago, I was 15 days into my cycle. Around ovulation time. (I have heavy, painful periods). When I got my most recent blood test, I had just finished my period two days ago. Could this have affected the reading?
I really could use some advice. I don't know why my body isn't holding on to b vitamins (especially b12 and folic acid) as well as iron. I got a blood test for celiacs disease and also had an endoscopy. Both came up with nothing. However I am gluten free, so perhaps it wouldn't pick up on it. I also was tested negative for lupus & rheumatoid arthritis. Could this possibly be lyme disease? Even though my west blot came up negative.
My doctor said my insurance said they won't cover any more tests or visits for at least 6 months because the think I am "abusing the system"
Feeling frustrated and alone in this. :(
I do know that when I got the blood test six weeks ago, I was 15 days into my cycle. Around ovulation time. (I have heavy, painful periods). When I got my most recent blood test, I had just finished my period two days ago. Could this have affected the reading?
I really could use some advice. I don't know why my body isn't holding on to b vitamins (especially b12 and folic acid) as well as iron. I got a blood test for celiacs disease and also had an endoscopy. Both came up with nothing. However I am gluten free, so perhaps it wouldn't pick up on it. I also was tested negative for lupus & rheumatoid arthritis. Could this possibly be lyme disease? Even though my west blot came up negative.
My doctor said my insurance said they won't cover any more tests or visits for at least 6 months because the think I am "abusing the system"
Feeling frustrated and alone in this. :(
COMMUNITY LEADER
"If you do supplment B-12. Look specifically for the sublingual type. This you place the tablet under your tounge and let it dissolve. The B-12 can get directly into your bloodstream that way so absorption is better than n the gut."
FYI -- if you're trying to determine whether or not you absorb vitamin B12, you don't want to do sublingual, because, that bypasses the stomach. The only way you can tell if it's absorbed is to take a regular pill for a while, then retest to see if levels increase. If they don't, that would show that B12 isn't absorbed through the stomach. That would be the time to switch to either liquid or sublingual, and if that doesn't work, shots would be the next step.
FYI -- if you're trying to determine whether or not you absorb vitamin B12, you don't want to do sublingual, because, that bypasses the stomach. The only way you can tell if it's absorbed is to take a regular pill for a while, then retest to see if levels increase. If they don't, that would show that B12 isn't absorbed through the stomach. That would be the time to switch to either liquid or sublingual, and if that doesn't work, shots would be the next step.
I also think you may have an absorption issue. (pernicious anemia? for low B-12) you said your test was 400 for B-12. Did yo uknow that in Japan and many other countries the low end of the B-12 range doesn't even start until 500! And many people don't feel well until their levels are 700 if not 900.
So supplimentation I think is a good idea. If you start supplimenting and your levels don't go up as Barb135 said above. That would be an indication of pernicious anemia. in which care you may have to have injections as absorption won't work for oral supplements.
If you do supplment B-12. Look specifically for the sublingual type. This you place the tablet under your tounge and let it dissolve. The B-12 can get directly into your bloodstream that way so absorption is better than n the gut.
There has also been a lot of discussion and reading about gut bacteria and the importance of that. So probiotics may be something to think about as well. Maybe there is an improper balance of gut bacteria for some reason whcih might affect the absorption. Just trying to think outside the box.
As for Thyroid. Understand that 25 mcg is a common starter dose. Also understand it takes up to 6 weeks to get stabilized. Also that many people when first starting to take thyroid will actually feel worse until your body gets stabilized. And many poeople report an INCREASE in the hair loss with T4 medication. They blame it on the medication but I think it is more the result of the body shock of getting hormone again. And anytime the body is shocked not unlike a cat, will shed hair. Your natual body puts hair growth at near the very bottom of the priority. So that when stressed, the first thing that goes is hair. Unfortunately being so low on the priority list, it is also about the LAST thing to come back.
Just wanting to make you aware of what MAY occur as you start out on taking thyroid.
be aware this is a STARTER dose, and it is most unlikely that this will be your final dosage. You may have a series of adjustments in dose and blood tests on 6 week cycles.
So supplimentation I think is a good idea. If you start supplimenting and your levels don't go up as Barb135 said above. That would be an indication of pernicious anemia. in which care you may have to have injections as absorption won't work for oral supplements.
If you do supplment B-12. Look specifically for the sublingual type. This you place the tablet under your tounge and let it dissolve. The B-12 can get directly into your bloodstream that way so absorption is better than n the gut.
There has also been a lot of discussion and reading about gut bacteria and the importance of that. So probiotics may be something to think about as well. Maybe there is an improper balance of gut bacteria for some reason whcih might affect the absorption. Just trying to think outside the box.
As for Thyroid. Understand that 25 mcg is a common starter dose. Also understand it takes up to 6 weeks to get stabilized. Also that many people when first starting to take thyroid will actually feel worse until your body gets stabilized. And many poeople report an INCREASE in the hair loss with T4 medication. They blame it on the medication but I think it is more the result of the body shock of getting hormone again. And anytime the body is shocked not unlike a cat, will shed hair. Your natual body puts hair growth at near the very bottom of the priority. So that when stressed, the first thing that goes is hair. Unfortunately being so low on the priority list, it is also about the LAST thing to come back.
Just wanting to make you aware of what MAY occur as you start out on taking thyroid.
be aware this is a STARTER dose, and it is most unlikely that this will be your final dosage. You may have a series of adjustments in dose and blood tests on 6 week cycles.
Your Free T3 is 35% of range. That is pretty low, especially since you are having all of these symptoms. Many hypo patients find they need their FT3 to be in the upper third of range to feel well. 25mcg levothyroxine is the typical T4 starting dose. It's a good idea to start taking it and see how your blood levels and symptoms change 6 weeks in. It really is a baby dose so not much may change, but it's a good place to start.
As to the deficiencies, it's possible that you have absorption issues. That would explain why, despite a healthy diet, you remain deficient in certain vitamins/minerals. Or, your body could have faced some trauma which caused rapid depletion of certain stores, such as with iron. If you have heavy periods for example, iron stores will go down, and all the healthy eating in the world usually won't boost it up enough on its own. My iron saturation was also low when I first was diagnosed with hypothyroidism and low ferritin/borderline anemia. It went up into range when I started taking iron at night (taking it with vitamin C helps absorption; do not take iron with any calcium).
Supplementing with those vitamins and minerals will simply replenish what you have lost or could never absorb, and the supplementation will be complimented by your already-healthy diet. I don't think it's a bad idea at all to supplement the iron, B12, and folic acid. Just be sure to space supplements several hours apart from your levothyroxine. Folic acid is very important, especially if you are looking at having children in the future.
As to the deficiencies, it's possible that you have absorption issues. That would explain why, despite a healthy diet, you remain deficient in certain vitamins/minerals. Or, your body could have faced some trauma which caused rapid depletion of certain stores, such as with iron. If you have heavy periods for example, iron stores will go down, and all the healthy eating in the world usually won't boost it up enough on its own. My iron saturation was also low when I first was diagnosed with hypothyroidism and low ferritin/borderline anemia. It went up into range when I started taking iron at night (taking it with vitamin C helps absorption; do not take iron with any calcium).
Supplementing with those vitamins and minerals will simply replenish what you have lost or could never absorb, and the supplementation will be complimented by your already-healthy diet. I don't think it's a bad idea at all to supplement the iron, B12, and folic acid. Just be sure to space supplements several hours apart from your levothyroxine. Folic acid is very important, especially if you are looking at having children in the future.
So I got my test results today (over the phone) and I would have much rather had my results on paper sitting in front of me... This is what I managed to scribble down.
my Free T3 is supposed to be between 87-178 and mine was 119.. which he said was "fine".
my free T4 is supposed to ideally be around 10 and mine was 7.3
So he wants to put me on a prescription for 25 micrograms (lowest dose possible) of levothyroxvin.
What do you guys think of that?
The other weird thing though was that my Iron saturation is supposed to be over 40% and mine was 29%...
My Folic acid should be 20 or above and mine was 8
My b12 was 400
If i eat a ton of grassfed local meats, eggs, healthy animal fats and TONS of veggies including tons of greens... why are all these levels so low!?
He wants to put me on 1,000mg of folic acid but to me this isn't the answer..
my Free T3 is supposed to be between 87-178 and mine was 119.. which he said was "fine".
my free T4 is supposed to ideally be around 10 and mine was 7.3
So he wants to put me on a prescription for 25 micrograms (lowest dose possible) of levothyroxvin.
What do you guys think of that?
The other weird thing though was that my Iron saturation is supposed to be over 40% and mine was 29%...
My Folic acid should be 20 or above and mine was 8
My b12 was 400
If i eat a ton of grassfed local meats, eggs, healthy animal fats and TONS of veggies including tons of greens... why are all these levels so low!?
He wants to put me on 1,000mg of folic acid but to me this isn't the answer..
COMMUNITY LEADER
If you've been low on vitamin B12 and iron in the past, you should get your levels tested. Low vitamin B12 levels would be an indication that you have Pernicious Anemia, which is an inability to absorb B12 from food. Many doctors won't go to the trouble to test for intrinsic factor antibodies; they take the same stance as they do with thyroid antibodies - the treatment won't change anyway. One way you can test it out yourself is to take get your levels tested and if they are low, take an oral vitamin B12 pill for a few weeks, then retest to see if it increases your levels. If not, you aren't absorbing the B12. I eat plenty of meat, eggs, dairy, etc and I don't absorb B12 either. I take a weekly injection. In addition to not absorbing vitamin B12, my doctor says I also don't absorb protein and some other vitamins adequately. Your tiredness could very well be due to low vitamin B12. Too low levels can cause the most horrific fatigue I've ever run across.
For the iron, have your ferritin levels tested. Ferritin is an iron storage hormone, so that will tell you how much iron you have in reserve. If ferritin levels are low, have an entire iron panel done.
When you get the FT3 and FT4 results back, please post them here, along with the reference ranges, which vary lab to lab and have to come from your own report.
Hair loss is a hypo symptom and, typically, stops once thyroid hormone levels are restored to a level that's good for you. In the meantime, if your hair comes out that easily, I'd suggest that you not over comb or even stroke your head. Also make sure you don't pull your hair back into tight pony tails or other "do's" Surprisingly enough, we all have a lot more hairs than we think we do, so unless you are getting bald patches, it's quite likely that your friends and family are telling the truth when they say it's not noticeable. It's only noticeable to you.
For the iron, have your ferritin levels tested. Ferritin is an iron storage hormone, so that will tell you how much iron you have in reserve. If ferritin levels are low, have an entire iron panel done.
When you get the FT3 and FT4 results back, please post them here, along with the reference ranges, which vary lab to lab and have to come from your own report.
Hair loss is a hypo symptom and, typically, stops once thyroid hormone levels are restored to a level that's good for you. In the meantime, if your hair comes out that easily, I'd suggest that you not over comb or even stroke your head. Also make sure you don't pull your hair back into tight pony tails or other "do's" Surprisingly enough, we all have a lot more hairs than we think we do, so unless you are getting bald patches, it's quite likely that your friends and family are telling the truth when they say it's not noticeable. It's only noticeable to you.
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