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Levels and armour dosage
I was recently diagnosed with hypothyroidism and have been in armour for 3 months now. I had all of the symptoms: weight gain, constipation, bloating, fatigue, dry skin, etc. Also, my hormones were completely out of whack! I had no progesterone and my estrodial was normal. I worked my way up on my armour dosage and took bio identical progesterone. ( don't have my original blood data with me right now but my tsh was 5.4 and my ft3 and ft4 were very low)
I am now on 3 grains, and do feel better, however I still have some symptoms and am concerned with my levels.
My new levels are:
Tsh <0.01
Ft4:1.9 ( range: 0.8- 1.8)
Ft3:4.4 ( range: 2.3- 4.2)
Reverse t3: 33 ( range 11-32)
Thyroglobulin antibody: <20 ( range <20)
Estrodial: 31
Progesterone: 37
Testosterone: 24
Vitamin d: 51 ( range: 30-100)
Im just unsure what do at this point. My constipation has gone away but I'm still bloated and still have fatigue. I'm now taking b12 (1200 mg) selenium, and iodine. Unfortunately, I didn't have my iron and b12 tested so I'm not sure what those levels are, but I'm sure they're low. I still haven't gotten my period yet as well. Should I be tested for adrenal fatigue? Should I lower my dose?
Thoughts?
I am now on 3 grains, and do feel better, however I still have some symptoms and am concerned with my levels.
My new levels are:
Tsh <0.01
Ft4:1.9 ( range: 0.8- 1.8)
Ft3:4.4 ( range: 2.3- 4.2)
Reverse t3: 33 ( range 11-32)
Thyroglobulin antibody: <20 ( range <20)
Estrodial: 31
Progesterone: 37
Testosterone: 24
Vitamin d: 51 ( range: 30-100)
Im just unsure what do at this point. My constipation has gone away but I'm still bloated and still have fatigue. I'm now taking b12 (1200 mg) selenium, and iodine. Unfortunately, I didn't have my iron and b12 tested so I'm not sure what those levels are, but I'm sure they're low. I still haven't gotten my period yet as well. Should I be tested for adrenal fatigue? Should I lower my dose?
Thoughts?
I think it is possible. I seem to recall reading that the body lost its ability to make enough red blood cells only after it used up most of its ferritin. By that token you would be too low in ferritin for best thyroid effects. I have a good link for you that I can't post here. Sending it by PM.
I suspected the same thing since the numbers were out of the range and they couldn't have been spiked from taking it right before the blood test. I am now taking 2.5 grains (instead of 3), so hopefully that should help.
Your quote about the Armour ratio makes a lot of sense. I guess we will wait to see how this new dosage affects my levels, and then see if t3 will need to be added.
I have been taking the B12 for a little over a week and I think it may be helping a little with energy. Like I said earlier, I didnt get test for ferritin, but I did get a full CBC panel (all of which were normal) which showed a red blood count of 4.49 (range 3.8-5.10). Does that rule out low ferritin, or is it possible to have normal RBC and low ferritin?
Your quote about the Armour ratio makes a lot of sense. I guess we will wait to see how this new dosage affects my levels, and then see if t3 will need to be added.
I have been taking the B12 for a little over a week and I think it may be helping a little with energy. Like I said earlier, I didnt get test for ferritin, but I did get a full CBC panel (all of which were normal) which showed a red blood count of 4.49 (range 3.8-5.10). Does that rule out low ferritin, or is it possible to have normal RBC and low ferritin?
I also think your Free T3 and Free T4 results are too high. The only thing keeping you from becoming hyper is likely your Reverse T3 level also being high. When taking T3 meds, it is hard to determine what is the real ratio of Free T3 and free T4, due to how fast the T3 acts on blood levels. That is why I asked when you took your meds. The fact that it was that long ago means that your ratio of Free T3 to Reverse T3 is actually better than calculated from your lab results, but most likely still too low for best results.
Fatigue can be related to both hypothyroidism and also, less frequently, to hyperthyroidism. Other possible contributors would be B12 that is too low in the range and ferritin that also is too low in the range.
So, where to go from here? Here's a bit of advice I received from a good thyroid doctor, regarding the issue of high Reverse T3 levels.
"As you can anticipate from what I've said, I don't subscribe to the idea that RT3 is always bad and one must take T3 to get rid of all of it. Armour his quite high in T3 and low in T4 compared to thyroid gland production (4:1 vs. 14:1 T4:T3 ratio). In fact, when people take Armour their RT3 will usually be lower and their FT3 much higher most of the day. So I just give such patients Armour thyroid until/unless Armour does not seem to be effective at strong doses and they seem to still overconvert T4 to RT3. Again, one has to then reconsider whether their body may be right and they cannot tolerate strong thyroid effects for some other reason. To increase thyroid effect in someone on Armour who has a high RT3 or persisting symptoms, I'll first lower the Armour and add some T3 to see if that will produce optimal effect. That will lower the RT3 even more, and usually works well."
So that is one consideration. Another would be to continue to test and confirm you are raising your B12 high enough. Another is that ferritin that is too low can also cause some hypo like symptoms. So be sure to test ferritin and also a full iron test panel and see if you need to supplement. Low ferritin is a very common occurrence for hypo patients.
Fatigue can be related to both hypothyroidism and also, less frequently, to hyperthyroidism. Other possible contributors would be B12 that is too low in the range and ferritin that also is too low in the range.
So, where to go from here? Here's a bit of advice I received from a good thyroid doctor, regarding the issue of high Reverse T3 levels.
"As you can anticipate from what I've said, I don't subscribe to the idea that RT3 is always bad and one must take T3 to get rid of all of it. Armour his quite high in T3 and low in T4 compared to thyroid gland production (4:1 vs. 14:1 T4:T3 ratio). In fact, when people take Armour their RT3 will usually be lower and their FT3 much higher most of the day. So I just give such patients Armour thyroid until/unless Armour does not seem to be effective at strong doses and they seem to still overconvert T4 to RT3. Again, one has to then reconsider whether their body may be right and they cannot tolerate strong thyroid effects for some other reason. To increase thyroid effect in someone on Armour who has a high RT3 or persisting symptoms, I'll first lower the Armour and add some T3 to see if that will produce optimal effect. That will lower the RT3 even more, and usually works well."
So that is one consideration. Another would be to continue to test and confirm you are raising your B12 high enough. Another is that ferritin that is too low can also cause some hypo like symptoms. So be sure to test ferritin and also a full iron test panel and see if you need to supplement. Low ferritin is a very common occurrence for hypo patients.
Thanks for your response. I am actually unsure if I do or not. I will look into this more. Thanks
Yeah, I see what you're saying. I was thinking the same thing. No, I am not having any hyper symptoms ( that I know of), but am still feeling fatigued.
About the Vit B, I have read that too, so I'm hoping that my levels will go up on the next blood test.
About the Vit B, I have read that too, so I'm hoping that my levels will go up on the next blood test.
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Do you have Hashimoto's? I see a negatvie TGab, but not a TPOab. Iodine is contraindicated in those with Hashimoto's and some others with hypothyroidism.
A thyroid ultra sound indicating swelling/inflammation of the thyroid, with nodules could also be cause for a dx of Hashimoto's.
The iodine may be doing you more harm than good.
A thyroid ultra sound indicating swelling/inflammation of the thyroid, with nodules could also be cause for a dx of Hashimoto's.
The iodine may be doing you more harm than good.
Since BOTH the FT4 and FT3 are ABOVE the range. I'm a little concerned about being too high of dosage. What does your Dr say?
Are you having any Hyper symptoms?
I suspect your Reverse T3 are higher because your body is sensing the high levels of both FT4 and FT3. The body is trying to rid itself of "excess" FT4 by converting it to useless RT3.
I also think that your Vit D could be higher. I think from reading here that it is best to have this number above 60.
Are you having any Hyper symptoms?
I suspect your Reverse T3 are higher because your body is sensing the high levels of both FT4 and FT3. The body is trying to rid itself of "excess" FT4 by converting it to useless RT3.
I also think that your Vit D could be higher. I think from reading here that it is best to have this number above 60.
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