Muscle, tendon and joint pain from thyroid, whats your experience?

Not a question. Share your experiences for others. You might learn something.  Many thyroid 'newbies' are unaware (docs too) of how thyroid hormones effect body tissue. Some get this as a severe symptom, some almost never. Back, feet, legs, shoulder, wrists (carpel tunnel) , all.  A reminder that symptoms vary with autoimmune.

I have self learned a lot on this subject - I had too. And learned acupressure muscle release (trigger point therapy is another name) from books and PT's, that has saved me thousands of dollars, and relived pain, (this is different from acupuncture). I since learned I needed T3, as many do with continuing pain on a T4 only med. Still have some, its a long healing process (years).

I recently spoke to very experienced physical therapist / massage therapist on this subject as she has experience working with Fibro patients and noted some mentioned they had 'wacked' thyroids. She was interested in how thyroid hormones work, symptoms , and, well, now she knows some of what I know, which is better than not knowing.

Many do not realize that what they think is joint pain may not be caused from within the  joint, unless there is physical joint damage or Rheumatoid.  Referred pain simply means pain felt in a different area from its true origin. Knee, ankle and shoulder pain is usually from tight muscles (nearby or far) pulling on a joint, so that's where you feel it. Loosening the muscle (if it wont stretch) via acupressure or trigger point release can relieve joint and muscle pain.

What brings this up was a recent experience of "burning feet" (new to me and very wierd) from FT4 under the range (totally off) which resulted in a 58 tsh. Another member mentioned burning feet to me with low thyroid levels. At tsh of 24 now, my feet feel better.

So this thread is about others thyoid body pain experience and relieving it, if they have anything to share for others to learn. If you had or still have thyroid body pain, you know how miserable it can be. (Dont get alarmed of my tsh, that is being worked on slowly - another subject altogether).

[MANmom]

I had severe tendonitis in my elbows...I thought it was due to playing too much golf.  I quit golf, still had pain four years later.  Then I had my thyroid removed due to cancer.  Almost immediately the pain in my elbows went away, and I haven't had any since.  Coincidence?  I think not.

[redheadaussie]

I have Hashi's but had my thyroid partially removed May 4 2007 and the rest on Dec 14 200. I still have anti-bodies to the Hashi's.....bleurgh!

The one thing I have noticed is that whenever I get run down, from an infection or what have you, I tend to get aches and pains. My nose had been bleeding earlier this month like a tap. Got it cauterised and discovered an infection up there. Since having the 'goop' up the nostril to get rid of the infection, I find my old knee problem has flared up again. So naughty infection has moved from one part of the body to another...( I can see it now, Rocky and Bullwinkle style...Aha! I'll get you yet!, says the evil infection)

I tend to get arthritic pains in my little finger on my right hand, but I put that down to having been a knitter, crotcheter, cross stitcher, gardener and a writer for over 40 years!


So having my thyroid out hasn't helped me one bit! Sorry guys...it might work for you, but I am just a delicate little snowflake who is cursed with rotten illnesses all my life!

[Kimmydee2]

My thyroid levels are within normal ranges.  but I do have Hashimoto's and I have severe hip pain and achiness.  I also get severe back and neck pain.  I do believe that Hashimoto's can cause other autoimmune symptoms all over the body as I have dealt with this for 12 years now.  

[gimel]

Just being somewhere within the "normal" ranges does not assure symptom relief because the ranges are far too broad, since they have never been purged of suspect hypo patient data and revised as was done for TSH 7 years ago.  I believe that is why we hear so often from patients that their symptoms were not relieved until their FT3 was moved into the upper part of its range and FT4 was adjusted to at least midpoint of its range.

How about posting your test results and related reference ranges used by your lab, so that members can help interpret your current status?

[juliva]

Recently as some of you already know I went slightly hypo due to a  medication change. It didn't take much my TSH went from 0.26 to 1.68 and it was debilitating to me. It began with muscle soreness Flu like symptoms it hurt to move. Then~

Toes went on fire and I mean on fire cramped and were yet numb (Tarsal Tunnel) arches fell (Plantar Fasiitisis) heals hurt. Could barely walk from room to room felt like the padding was gone from my feet.

Fingers went numb/burned in the night (carpal tunnel) both hands

Lower back and hips began to ache, Thigh's ached/burned/cramped/ and yet there was a weakness kind of feeling. I felt like I had a toothache deep within in my bones at times. Cramping/drawing like pains to.  

Joints became tender stiff and sore and also ached. The worse of it was the sharp shooting pains that stabbed me though out my body. (Fibromyalgia) I felt like 200 lbs were on my shoulders when walking..

Heartburn, blurred vision, sweating, hotness at times. Hands and feet felt froze at times. Skin turned red like a sunburn. Stomach knotted and hurt/cramped felt nauseated. The worse part.. It's been 3 months and some symptoms are still lingering because now I've gone hyper. Meds are being reduced I can only pray I have no effects. The best part Endo told me yesterday that all my symptoms were indeed caused by my levels.

I've had thyroid disease for over 10 years and I have NEVER experienced such debilitation from this disease until now. Did I mention depression? My life stopped and I was very active running 2 miles a day I was in good shape before all this started.. oh yeah I've gained 10 pounds to.

[Eve16]

I was diagnosed with Hashimoto this past Jan.  I was experiencing palpitations, dizziness and diarrhea.  I had a miscarriage in Nov. and all these symptoms followed shortly after.  My endo.  said I was Hyper w  hich explained my palpitations.  I was also beginning to experience body pains.  I was then asked to take blood work 3 weeks later and I was hypo now.  10.2 was my level.  My endo started me with Synthroid 25mcg.  I was on it for 6wks.  My body pains were still there.  Really bad lower back pain, shooting pain going down my legs and hip pain.  Stomach pain and feeling moody.  My endo said the body pain was not coming from my Thyroid.  But I told her it has to be because I never felt this way until I was diagnosed with Hashimoto.  But she insists it is not related. I think she is wrong.  I just had my blood work taken and my thyroid went down to 2.6 which is great.  She increased my Syntrhoid to 75mcg.  SHe wants my levels to go down so that I can hopefully get pregnant again.  Body pains are making me miserable.  I have to take Advil PM to sleep every night.

[LazyMoose]

You were DX'd this Jan? It can take a while for symptoms to go away. And if your body pain does not diminish on Synthroid, you may need some additional T3 med (cytomel). Additional t3 relieves most body pain in many people. Give the synthroid a try for at least 4 months, to get the lab levels correct. You might want to post the levels hear, as most docs go just by TSH- wrong.

[Eve16]

Thank you for your response. Its a relief to know that there is light at the end of the tunnel.  I have  been on Syntroid since 3/11 so I just started, really.   I will talk to my doctor about Cytomel.  

[corky21]

THis is my kind of post. My biggest problem in the last 5 years has been muscle pain. Mostly it's in my low back and hips. I do have 2 mild bulging discs L4-L5-S1 the area most of us get that problem. However, I know the pain from the discs when I overdo it, but I have daily stiffness/aches behind my hips up high around the sacum and I suppose near those bulges, but I get it around 3-5pm when I'm a bit more stressed maybe with afterschool homework and getting dinner ready,etc. I also will get it if I'm under any type of emotional stress for some reason earlier in the day.

I get a very tired, fatigued pain all over my lower back just from standing or walking 15 minutes. I feel like I've walked 100 miles, it's a really bad fatigue, burning pain. I also found I had tender or trigger knots in my glutes and around the sides of my hips as well.

I've found a therapist who does acupuncture and acupressure on those points (trained with Janet Travell, who found these issues) and so far I haven't had too much of a problem with the glute pains any more, but I still get the late in the day burning/aching around the sacrum and behind the hips up high.

I also continue to get knee pain and leg pain. Today my low back, hips, thighs, and knees hurt awful. Some days it doesn't hurt at all. It's just strange.

The chronic pain is the one from standing more than 15 minutes and the burning/aching behind the hips.

I also can't exercise as well as I used to before all this started. I'm now up to 3 grains of Erfa and still on 15mg Cortef and I have stable daily temps, but my waking basal still is 97.2-97.6 most days. So I think I may still be hypo???

I have D levels up there, ferritin too, and I take a lot of magnesium and Malic acid, and other trace minerals, etc. but I'm still having pain issues.

Mentally I'm better and want to do more, but physically, I'll get sidelined still. I'm able to do more around the house now that I'm higher on the thyroid hormone, but today, I'm back in my chair b/c of all over pain.

For me, I have Reverse T3 issues. It was high again on 2.5 grains, and now it may be higher still. I will test it again in a week or so, and if RT3 is even high, I think I have to do Cytomel only and forget the T4 because somehow I'm not converting it all the correct way and maybe this is why I'm still having muscle pain symptoms???

Of all the symptoms, this one is the worst for me, but anxiety and depression are right up there with it. I can deal with dry skin and having to wear sweaters, and pulling my thinning hair back, but pain, it causes even more depression.

[LazyMoose]

Hey Corky21. If you still have all over body pain as you do,  you need to start fixing it at the core- your back. Once the back gets better, other areas can follow, but this process can take a few years. Remember, you didn't get this way over night. Inflammation spreads outward from the lower back. The lower back has trigger point areas too, but they are hard to find when the whole area is tight.

If lower back muscles are strenghtend, then the weak discs can be less bothersome. And if the tension is removed - bulging discs can sometimes heal. Surgury is not the only answer for wacked lower discs.

I researched back strengthening programs that many physical therapists use. Many use generic machines that are the same in gyms - dont work for beans. One brand on PT equipment that works for backs and necks is called Med-X. If you have ins that covers Physical Therapy, you need to do this. Call around and ask if they use Med-X brand equipment. That is the brand that pro sports teams fix there teams on - it really is the only one that works. I tried the others-waist of money.

Once the lower back is strong the sacrum - Illiac joint will start to heal. No more burning! Right now your glute muscles are stronger than you back and that is pulling on the SI joints (tail bone area). The you can move on to other areas of the body, with trigger point therapy. Been there, better now.

But you also need to get the thyroid meds figure out for muscles to heal.

[corky21]

Thank you. I will look into those machines. The problem I had was doing physical therapy. When I'd go and do the back exercises they gave me I'd be worse after and get bad spasms. I'd have to wait one week before going back for more treatment. I eventually stopped it and tried a chiropractor and that didn't do much either after 12 treatments.

I'm now with a Janet Travell trained trigger therapist. She uses acupuncture and acupressure on the knots in my glutes and legs. So far I'm not having as many problems with the glutes, but that sacrum, middle area is still a big problem.

I have all the back exercises still and I suppose I could try them again. I will look into the Med-x Equipment too.

[LazyMoose]

Using the Med - X twice a week, you will be sore for the first month. And then a slow recovery will happen. At the same time they will have you do low impact crunches on one of those exercise balls, way easier on the back than the floor! If you do this simultaneously with Trigger Point therapy, all the better.

The weekly home or gym exercise after the PT is lumbar extensions on an inclined bench using just your body weight.

If you have inc, its well worth it to find a PT with the black Med-X machines. They will try to get you in even if they dont use Med-X, but its just not the same- dont fall for it.

[Melaniejayne73]

Diagnosed with Graves in 2008, had total thyroidectomy in 2010.  Been placed on Levothyroxine and Propanalol.  Started 150mg Levo, increased to £175mg (which was when they introduced the propanalol also as the levo caused panic attacks and high blood pressure).  Dropped me back down to 100mg then increased to 125mg....still feel awful, can't cope with the pains in wrists, ankles, neck, shoulders and back much more.  They have sent me to physiotherapy which is rubbish as they just have me doing exercises with a latex strip (which aggrevates the pain even more).  Feel at a loose end.  The pains in my wrist keep me awake at night, i can't even open a jar anymore, carry shopping and as i drive a manual car the gears and clutch are getting harder to manover.  Painkillers knock me out and gel pain relief does nothing.  can ANYONE please suggest anything i can take to my gp as they really dont have a clue what they are doing.  I feel like im a guinea pig for them.

[ando35]

I had really stiff and painful ankles and wrists when I woke up. People said it was lack of exercise and aging. I tested 6.0 TSH and my cholesterol was 290 so the doc put me on synthroid.

[LazyMoose]

I have learned a lot about hypo muscle pain since this 2010 post.

There are several more of my posts about muscle pain since 2010 if one choses to search.

Melaniejayne73 : Many people with thyroid removal dont do very well on T4 meds only.  (Just so someone does not get confused  I believe your levo is measured in mcg.)The thyroid gland is partially responsible for converting T4 to T3.

T3 levels in the upper third of the range are known to help people with muscle pain. Magnessium glycinate and magnessium tourate are most effective for muscle pain as well and easier on the stomach than mag citrate- take this night away from thy meds. Malic acid capsules remove lactic acid in muscle fiber, which is the cause of the pain.

To get things rolling after all of the above is completed you need to manually force the lactic acid out of the effected muscle tissue - to heal the damage. Trigger piont therapy, trigger point release, myofacial release and the best of all - Active Release Technique works for this. A limited amount of new age Chiropractors offer this, books are available as well as videos on u-tube.

LM

[LazyMoose]

This post is about thyroid pain while on thyroid meds.

If meds are at the right level for you(not just in range) or you are maxed out (almost hyper) and you still have muscle pain then further action is needed. - Thats what this post is about.

I personally had bad muscle pain even after being on levothyroxine and the synthroid brand for 10 years, clearly more treatment of a different type was needed. This is where Drs are baffled - and I refuse to be on pain meds, which is what Drs wanted to push. Following the treatment plan I devised ( posted above) I am slowly getting better. Hopfully others can use this coupled with ideas of their own when / if the medical community fails them.

[LazyMoose]

Dont forget listening to your gut. Many hypo people cant eat what they used to eat. I'm not focussing on the gluten free band wagon either - look at many foods and just try to eat better and eliminat what does not go well with you.

[FTB4]

??? My big question is: Why is it that the majority of members did not start having Muscle, joint, hip, and lower back pain until after starting thyroid meds, Levo and Synthroid in particular, Doctors tell you the same old thing "Your pain is not caused by the medication" I really think a connection exists here. I was on a very low dose of Levo for a year, like 10 or 15mg per day, I never had any symptoms at all, then I had a lab done and the GP put me on 50mg Levo, after that increase I had a little trouble sleeping, I complained to the GP, so he states it is my thyroid causing the insomnia, so he raises it to 75mg, then the insomnia was worse, I could not sleep at all, and became depressed, and started to have some muscle pain starting in my hips at night while in bed, So the quack puts me on anti-depressants and sleeping pills, now 6 months has gone by since I
Had my first increase in Levo, so since my TSH  (Yes he was one of those idiots that only knows TSH) did not budge, he put me on Synthroid 100mg, now the crap hits the fan, I had muscle pain everywhere, lower back, hips, calves and real bad neck pain and stiffness. That is when I found this web-site, trying to find out why I was in so much pain, and the other symptom that I think was caused by the medication, and I know some of you members have complained of the same issue is, sinus issues, like you have a terrible cold. I wonder if either the medication or the Hashimoto's is the cause of the nerve damage that is causing the pain issues I have now.
My Neurologist seems like he is stumped as to the cause. And with the attitude of most MD's that it is not thyroid related, I doubt he will find the cause.   FTB4

[LazyMoose]

"  ??? My big question is: Why is it that the majority of members did not start having Muscle, joint, hip, and lower back pain until after starting thyroid meds, Levo and Synthroid in particular, Doctors tell you the same old thing "Your pain is not caused by the medication"  "

- FTB4,  I have noticed among other posters what you are saying. In my case I had increasing muscle pain starting in my hands and neck with other hypo symptoms 12 to 15 years before my diagnosis with Hashimoto and starting Levo. It was there before Levo and just got worse for another 10 years until  I discovered T3 med a few years ago. So I attributed easing my pain not from discontinuing Levo, but from adding T3 and eventually changing to natural dessicated T3/T4 combo med. And then the other stuff I've done seems to be working slowly towards getting better.

I do know that if people need moreT3 in them, but only get T4 from their Dr, muscle pain, digestive difficulties and insomnia can be the result.

On the other hand I know hypothyroid people in real life that never had unusual levels of body pain , before or after med - this baffles me.

I still believe the cause of pain in most people with hypo is muscle related , since its known that hypothyroid causes a build up of lactic acid in the muscles. This in turn causes muscle knotting and can compress on surrounding nerves sometimes causing tingling and weakness in the limbs. Fixing the muscle tissue can end further nerve damage. In time, nerves can also heal, which is what seems to be slowly improving now in my case. I'm still looking for the end of the tunnel.

[Hashi60]

Hello

I am getting ready to try armour because for past 12 years cytomel/levothyroid not working. I have severe tendinitis all over which is very common with hypothyroid but mainly in women. It appears that since women produce more estrogen than men that it may be related to fluctuations of estrogen and or DHEA. I know with me having Addison disease (primary adrenal insufficiency) that I struggle to keep all my hormones up. They were all low. And we (Endo's) can not seem to raise my DHEA. We have tried many different supplements, creams, you name i have tried it.

The body is so complex that doctors just do not know nor does the medical community have any definitive testing to determine what is really going on, thyroid tests are not 100% accurate. I hope the armour will work better.
I take 88mcg levoxyl and 7.5mcg of cytomel so we are staring with 1 1/2 grain of armour. This sounds a bit high since the T3 in 1 grain of armour (60)
is 9mcg. However, since I am starting at 11/2 that would be 13.5 mcg of T3.
Plus, I heard the new armour had more cellulose and a coating on outside so it was hard to diagnose or absorb. People are crushing it up and adding honey and getting great results for absorption with the new formulated armour.

I was wondering if this was true and were other people having problems with the new formulated armour. I am  tired of muscle pain. Tired of test, MRI CT and EmG, blood test that show nothing. I have had trigger point,magnesium
Acupuncture, compounded meds ..you name. Nothing works much except when I go off synthetic Thyroidis meds for a day or two some of it goes away ...so maybe I just can not take synthetic thyroid meds.

It is tricky for me to increase my thyroid because it could push me into adrenal crisis due to Addison's. I wear a medical bracelet for this. I normally have to increase my steriods some to tolerate increase in thyroid. :(

This thyroid/ adrenal thing is a pain and very depressing trying to manage it. Both can cause so much pain. I pray we all get some relief soon. And hopefully one day we will have better thyroid testing and much better meds.

God bless
Nikki

[LazyMoose]

[  "I have severe tendinitis all over which is very common with hypothyroid but mainly in women. It appears that since women produce more estrogen than men that it may be related to fluctuations of estrogen and or DHEA."  ]

There are are plenty of men who have muscle / tendon pain with hypothyroid. In your statement above it looks like your pointing to lower estrogen and DHEA from your hypothyroid as the reason for pain. Men can get lower testosterone from low thyroid, I dont think it causes more muscle pain though, dont really know for sure.

What I do know is hypo will upset the chemical balance in tendon and muscle tissue in both genders. ATP chemical process for rebuilding soft tissue can be unbalanced from magnessium deplettion while taking thyroid meds and a build up of lactic acid, a bi-product of muscle breakdown and contraction. Lactic acid does not deplete while hypo

[LazyMoose]

Malic acid pills can push out the lactic acid, and you musct stretch to help this. trigger point therapy and active release techniqu help out a lot to. This plan is working great so far for me while at the same dose of Canadian erfa thyroid for almost 2 years. I was in pain for many years. I do not take testosterone or DHEA. I do exercise, not exercising made it worse.

Yes, Armour does not work as well as it used to for some people. Supposedly the new NP thyroid from Acella is like the older Armour and ERFA thyroid.

[FTB4]

Is there a treatment or a medication for dealing with this lactic acid?
FTB4

[LazyMoose]

If you have actual Addisons, that itself can cause muscle issues. Are you able to get that under control? And if you have had your adrenals (Addison's disease) under control in the past, was your DHEA improved then (they usually parallel each other to some extent.

In men with hypothyroid and low free testosterone under about 50 yrs old, they can see an improvement in testosterone levels when thyroid levels are improved. I would imagine this is somewhat similar with women's estrogen levels, although I have not seen the later mentioned anywhere.

I want to mention the trademarked technique called Active Release Technique or ART. It works better than trigger point therapy. There are a lot of younger chiropractors to do much , much more that the traditional cracking of joints. ART is quite amazing I must say. Some physical therapist do ART, but its rare to them and they charge a lot more.

But it works best once you stop accumulating new muscle pains, this means your hormones are in balance. Once that occurs, then its easier to fix the painful muscles, and they will get better.

[LazyMoose]

[  "Is there a treatment or a medication for dealing with this lactic acid?"  ]

I am a firm believer in natural medicine to some point, meaning natural supplements.  Because many, over time (sometimes months) really do work.

Natural flushing of lactic acid is part of the ATP muscle rebuilding process. Under treated hypo thyroid can disrupt this. Possibly other hormone deficiencies can cause this too - limited information available. Just walking up stairs requires muscles to rebuild. If they cant rebuild correctly from trapped lactic acid, scar tissue forms, disrupting the fiber alignment, shortening muscles and tendons making even more pain. Unless corrected the problem escalates. Google away.

**One really needs to be able to distinguish existing pain from new pain.**
The thyroid hormone level needs to first be corrected to stop new muscle damage (new pain areas) from occurring, meaning experimenting with different thyroid meds until other hypo symptoms improve. Once this is achieved, the muscle damaged from the past has a higher possibility of being corrected. As to how much will vary person to person.

It is known , although not very well in the medical field, that malic acid in addition to very high quality magnesium helps remove lactic acid from muscle tissue. Malic acid is in our bodies already, a little more helps some people.Max suggested is 1600-2400mg day. I take less than that, being an acid, I dont want to bring my acid reflux back (fixed that naturally as well). I will try to up it gradually and take with food.

The top professional athletic trainers (think Olympics) seem to know muscle chemistry better than anyone in the medical field. These people as well as naturalpaths that treat fibro patients, seem to understand muscle chemistry, lactic acid, ATP muscle rebuilding and pain. A major block in body builders goals is lactic acid - or removing it sooner. Glutamine and creatien ,which are also in our bodies, will also speed up the ATP process but is really only noticeable after exercise - lactic acid can work any time.

For best results with mag and malic acid are best coupled with physically pushing the muscle fluid out (with lactic acid) of the effected muscles, in order for new blood and nutrients to flow in.. This is what pro trainers do for there athletes because it gets results. Those of us in pain are no different - we want results. Physically pushing the muscle fluid out is done using these techniques : Active Release Technique and Grasston Technique seem to do the job along a lot better than just  myofacial release and trigger point therapy. Someone who knows all 4 is your best shot. Drs do not know what this is. They may try to do steriod injections but that doesnt work and you cant inject your whole body. So to find someone that does this requires goggling and talking on the phone. Once you get this done and understand how it works by watching, you can learn to do some yourself. I do this thought the week, its a long process, my whole body was twisted from about 20 years of untreated and under-treated Hashimoto.

Using my  "plan"  I am getting better every month, how far it will continue I do not know.

Always open to more info on this.  There is a somewhat new medical treatment called prolotherapy injections. I know it costs a lot and is painful.

[Buckupnow]

I had sever muscle issues...especially the posterior tibial tendons and calf muslces and burning tenosynovitis until I was put on Armour and the right dose of hydrocortisone. I also take calcium, magnesium, and zinc plus 10,000 iu of vitamin D3 every day.  The burning (tenosynovitis) was caused from a conversion issue where levothyroxine was being converted to RT3 instead of FT3.  Armour has gotten rid of that issue.

[LazyMoose]

posterior tibial tendons and calf muslces - a huge cause of foot pain, but miss labled as plantar facitus most of the time.

Erfa, Canada's dessicated helpd me like Armour helped you.

You might try adding malic acid to your mixture too, that also helps.

[LazyMoose]

bump

[toni2251]

Hello
I'm in no wise an expert on thyroid disease. I'm not regulated at all but I just wanted to know if you've tried a different brand of thyroid medicine. Levothyroxine caused issues with me. Synthroid caused me anxiety.  I'm now on levoxyl and cytomel which seems to be better but not completely. In fact I have a ways to go but it's better. I didn't believe that different meds could have different physical responses. Just a thought.

[toni2251]

Hello
I did not know that hypo causes lactic acid in muscles. That is very interesting. I have these bumps all in my thigh muscles and I was wondering about where it came from. I don't have much muscle pain but t have very bad pain in my shins. I went through so many test before I realized it was hypo related.

[LazyMoose]

What you are calling Muscle bumps might be knots or "ropeing" as body workers call it where the tissue fiber is laying in all different directions and has a build up of lactic acid. A good hands on body worker will notice this.

T3 in the upper third of the range help prevent new areas from developing this, as well as getting all the 'hypo' important vitamins and minerals tested. If the existing areas dont improve, the other info I mentioned has been known to help, but it can take a while.  

[sunrock]

Add
Plantar Fasciitis to the list!

For years I had pain in different body parts. As I was given T3 medication it really seemed to help.But the problem was also getting the right balance of T3 and T4 .....which has been a 4 year journey for me.

What I began to notice was...when my T4 was higher than the T3 on my blood tests....that was also when my pain in the hands, feet, and later shoulder, numbness in the hands and arms etc were the worst.
I think the unbalance effects my nerve system as well.
I believe my thyroid problems started in my early teens, by my late 20s I was having hearing problems. Now in my mid fifties I can say,  when I am going though different dose changes I  hit a point where all my symptoms DISAPPEAR.....but I can't seem to maintain that place!

I am finally at a point where my T3 Test came back higher then the T4....
But too high...I do not want T3 toxicosis so I am now dropping the dose of T3 med a quarter. And then wait...but my pain is better and my plantar fasciitis is gone...I can bend my figures with out stiffness and I can hear a little bit better

I do seem to blame anything wrong with my body (and the weather) on my thyroid problem and medication balance.....but if you keep a journal as I do and write down before going to sleep how your day was, your feelings, symptoms etc it will help you to see a pattern and then put the pieces together.  

Mia

[LazyMoose]

I've been working on whats left on my Plantar Fasciitis this winter - using active release and ultra sound, and now it seems to be healing better than before. It was miserable 4 years ago on T4 only.

A health journal gets to be a lot of work after a while. but it pays off when you need to look back. Thanks for the reminder, need to update mine.

[FTB4]

LM, I think I just found a clue as to my shoulder issues, The symptoms, location and pain match "Frozen Shoulder Syndrome" and as far as Mayo Clinic is concerned considers Hypo and Hyper Thyroid as two systemic diseases that can cause this condition. I will try and paste a link here:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/frozen-shoulder/DS00416/DSECTION=risk-factors

If you look at the causes you will note the thyroid connection, there is another site that attributes this condition to possible spurs and disc issues in the neck, So I have both of those possibilities.   Regards FTB4

[LazyMoose]

The mayo is getting a lot better with thyroid symptoms/ casing other issues.

Treating the shoulder inclueds about 8 major layered muscles all connecting the shoulder from the upper arm, chest muscles, colar bone atachment, neck, and mid to upper back. ART is effective in this area, takes several months.

[lynddy]

When I was first diagnosed with Hypo 2 years ago my TSH was 99.99 and was sent off to hospital, although my blood tests now come back in the so called normal range I still have nearly all the symptoms i had at the very begining and I have also been diagnosed with rhematoid arthritis which started with pain in my feet and hands, because hasi/hypo is a auto immune disease it is very common to get other auto immune diseases such as arthritis, I feel that if my hypo was treated properly the arthritis would also get better, unfortunately in NZ we only get the cheap goverment funded drugs, it is well known these are not going to work for everyone and they diffinitely dont work for me, Ive spent 2 years trying to get help from my doctor who doesnt seem to know how to treat it, I am now waiting to see a specialist.

[LazyMoose]

Did you have a blood test for rhematoid arthritis? Many Drs just say pain is from RA without actually checking for it in blood work. Kind of like Drs saying someone has Hashimoto without checking antibody levels.

There was someone here from NZ (New Zealand right?) a while back that was somehow able to get T3 meds in addition to their T4. T3 does seem to help hypo people with body pain compared to T4 alone.

[foxycat84]

Hi, everyone I was just told in January that my TSH was high... I have been fighting body aches, tiredness, massive weight gain, my ears itched so badly, I was always in a bad mood. my knees hurt along with my ankles and wrists. my hips and lower back hurt all the time no matter what I do. I am starting to work out again and trying to get my body to start working again but I don't know what is going on. It seems like everything is falling apart. Here are my labs.

January 7th 2013
TSH  25.30  0.34-4.82 uIU/mL
FREE T4   0.63   0.59-1.17 ng/dL

2-12-2012
TSH  3.52    0.34-4.82 uIU/mL
FREE T4  0.69    0.59-1.17 ng/dL

I still feel bad, somedays it is worse than others but by the end of the day I am wiped and just ready for bed. I hope I can learn a thing or two from here.

[toni2251]

Hi foxycat (that's cute).
Your t4 levels are still very low. What meds are you taking?  You need to get a little higher. Also did they test your free t3 levels? That's important to know also. I will say that when I was on levothyroxine my mood was so bad. Crying all the time, angry and so forth. I switched to levoxyl and boom, it is so much much. Just recently the pharmacy did the old switch a roo and gave me levothyroxine again and it happened again. The crying, anger and so forth. Got my levoxyl back and I feel so much better. You would be surprised how different thyroid meds affect us differently. However I think you need to get your t4 levels better and your t3 levels tested.

[toni2251]

Also you might want to start your own thread so the experts here can really help you.  

[artfemme]

Hey there. I had 2 rear-end car accidents in 11 months when I was stationary which exacerbated a previous neck injury from another v. bad rear end accident (again I was stationary) 7 years prior. Do not drive with me, I am obviously some kind of s***magnet. I had multiple herniated discs in neck and spine, subluxation, as well as torn tendon in shoulder, partially torn meniscus in knees....not pretty. There was severe whiplash and concussion and looking back, I attribute hypo symptoms all the way back to the first accident. My TSH has never been elevated but both my Free's are low without thyroid medication. I went to PT and chiropractic including applied kinesiology for the accidents.

After a year of PT three times a week for a year and a half (included Pilates as well as home exercises and TENS machine and manual massage) for the last accidents with no cessation of pain, my neurologist stated in a report that he thought I might have "fibromyalgia", a suspect diagnosis back in 2000...and even suspect now since it seems to relate to hypothyroidism so much that some literature suggests it is long-term untreated or under-treated hypo. As far as I know, the jury is still out. In any case, I was told I would be in chronic pain for the rest of my life. Just shoot me.

I found out about Rolfing technique and found a practitioner trained at the Rolf Center in Boulder and practicing in Santa Monica where I live. I figured it couldn't hurt and signed up for the 10 sessions. This technique involves very deep muscle massage as well as manipulation to remove adhesions that can develop in the fascia between the muscles. It also deals with trigger points and sounds like it might be similar to ART. I don't want to go into it too much except to say that after the 3rd session I began to feel better after experiencing extreme muscle tremor and release and by the end I had gotten an inch of my height back to normal, was no longer rotated in the pelvis and was virtually pain free. I would imagine that these techniques also work on the endocrine system and calm the adrenals.

Because Rolfing is so intense, some people find it painful and some people experience bruising. My pain from the accidents, including sciatica, was so intense that any "pain" from Rolfing was insignificant in comparison, and in fact because I had long been a yoga practitioner, I found yoga breathing was all I needed during the sessions. But I was also counseled to take Calcium Lactate before the treatment to buffer the lactic acid released from the muscles by manipulation. I guess this would be similar to you taking Malic Acid. But beyond that, I was also counseled to go home after the session and immediately take a 20 minute soak in a tub of warm water with 4 cups of epsom salts and 2 cups of REAL 4% solution apple cider vinegar (you have to check, because some stuff sold as cider vinegar is in fact only "flavored" and colored with caramel) In the US you can buy cider vinegar cheaply by the gallon at Smart & Final stores. Epsom salts is basically providing magnesium. I did this religiously and never was sore and only had a very slight bruising when he worked on the tender area of my inner thighs.

The few times I wasn't able to immediately do the soak, I had more stiffness the following day but I'm convinced that the Calcium Lactate buffering the lactic acid was really helpful on it's own. I recommend doing both.

As far as Hypo goes, I had significant exposure to environmental toxins and to chemicals known to be endocrine disruptors due to a pipe break and mold in my home....I think that really pushed me over the edge and I got ALL the hypo symptoms, though still with normal (1.89 was the highest) TSH.  I experience more muscle pain if my meds are too low and was put in arch supports I didn't need (actually made me worse) and told I had foot and postural problems I apparently didn't have because the foot pain went away when I got my FREE levels up in the higher parts of the ranges. My sister has Hashi's and before she was correctly diagnosed, she could hardly get out of bed she was so debilitated with joint and muscle pain....her doctor actually thought she had rheumatoid arthritis or lupus. But no, she had a gluten allergy and Hashi's. Pain mostly went away with thyroid meds, but she's been having foot pain again along with unusual weight gain and her new doc tested her FREE T3 finally....low. So she's now adding Cytomel and lowering her T4 and being monitored for adjusting her meds to her Free levels. She says she already has an increase in energy and lessening of foot pain after not quite 2 months.

[strawberryseed]

In response to your second paragraph. I have learned that whenever your dose is lowered or raised, you will feel well for awhile. I believe that it takes six weeks for the body to adjust to the new raise/lowered dose. After that period, the body will demand that the dose either be raised or lowered, depending on the symptoms. If you are hypo, it is more likely that you will need to raise the dose. This is basically for people who are on natural thyroid hormone, i.e., Armour, Naturethroid.....The recommendation is to  raise by 1/2 grain every 1-2 weeks when symptoms return until you hit 2 grains or so. Then raise by 1/2 grain every 4 weeks. You will raise if/when hypo symptoms return. If they don't show up, then stay at the dose. If you start having heart palpitations and anxiety or insomnia then you might need to back down to address adrenals or iron first.

[LazyMoose]

I haven't tried Rolfing yet.

One Dr told me I fit the fibro description when he didn't know what else to say. Several Drs said I'd most likely be in pain my whole life. Fact is 95% of Drs are clueless when it comes to muscle and tendon pain.

Well, I'm a lot better now after learning about trigger point therapy, ART and muscle supplement needs, plus added T3 intake. I think Rolfing could be the icing on the cake, now that my limbs no longer feel like logs LOL.

Spray magnesium is also great. Spay on, let dry, wipe salty residue off or shower. Calms down hurting muscles after loosening them up.

[artfemme]

The thing that is different about rolfing is the release of the adhesions between the muscles. As I understand it, if the injury is severe enough then the fascia can develop what amounts to scar tissue....the same way one can get adhesions in the gut. The muscles basically stick to each other in an unnatural position, so that where manipulation and trigger point release can have a temporary local effect, they'll come back because the adhesions are holding muscles and bones in an unnatural posture. That certainly seemed to be the case with me....I'd get chiropractic adjustments that would go right back out, especially in the lumbar spine and rotated pelvis (documented by x-ray) and postural photos show me kind of hunched over and twisted but after I completed rolfing, straight and one inch taller back to my original height. I think the hunching thing is a typical defensive posture after an injury that can become habitual.

Anyway, worked for me. I go back for touch-ups from time to time, but the original adjustments left me relatively pain free for 10 years, as long as I remember to always lift with my legs and abdominals and not with my back !

Good luck LM !

[LazyMoose]

ART actually releases muscle adhesion too, since your moving the muscle during the technique. You have to work on each muscle independently so it takes time.

I had a lot of fascia tension too, I think Rolfing would be good for that.
It seems like  trigger point release is a good starting point for rock hard muscles, then move onto something more permanent.

Youve been pain free for 10 years? dream come true.

[artfemme]

Not anymore though, not since the thyroid /rT3 went south....although nothing like what I experienced before, no sciatica etc. Now I have muscle tension, muscle spasms and foot pain when my thyroid medication is off. It's confusing because the car accidents sort of segue'd into an issue of criminal harassment in my home by a new resident who turned out to be a psychopath while I was laid up with the back injury and then a pipe break in the ceiling that resulted in a multiplicity of molds in my loft as well as false mold abatements and real mold abatements with chemicals that are known endocrine disruptors.I had the whole top floor of a beach-adjacent building under rent control and my landlord was trying to force me to move out by not attending to these problems. It was very very stressful and then I got symptoms of hypo but with low TSH and low-in-the-range Free's ...so who knows ? And I also had a bicycle accident due to a road hazard that resulted in a puncture wound and a head injury with 20 stitches....and ALL those things had imaging done without protecting the thyroid and stressful lawsuits attached. Complicated. After a gap of 10 years, I just went back and had some more weekly treatment for a problem with my knee that may be coming from the bad disc at L-5 as well as me falling on it at a full run playing badminton.

But what I can tell you is that my posture is straight and yes, for 10 years I had very little pain (unless I was dumb and lifted something too heavy, and then I might have had a bad day like anyone else) and had NONE of the knots in the muscles that indicate trigger points, no referred pain, no sciatica, none of that deep penetrating achy-ness or sharp pain whenever I moved or even when just lying in bed ( try to turn over, try to sleep ! ) that I couldn't get rid of before. In getting well with Rolfing there were two specific sessions that were memorable for muscle release so powerful that my limbs started shaking and then thrashing around as though I was having a seizure. Not kidding. This happened first at about session 3 or 4, and then the following session.....and then I rapidly was healed by the end of 10. This release was accompanied by spontaneous, unexpected weeping. It was an incredibly powerful experience and had I not, at that point, trusted my practitioner so much (very skeptical after so much failure with other modalities) and had he not warned me that something of the like happened to some people and that if I started shaking to just relax into it....I think I might have been frightened.

I sounds like everything you've done has been really beneficial to you and I appreciate you starting this thread and sharing all this information. ART sounds very very similar. In Rolfing, what some people find the most painful (but I didn't) is that the practitioner uses his elbow to go between the muscles to work on the adhesions...but he also works on trigger points, rotations, leg length etc. I've had a lot of chiropractic, applied kinesiology, acupuncture and all that PT and while much of it was helpful, it was the Rolfing that was the most effective in the least amount of time and pushed me through to recovery. In fact, my Rolfer recommended that I alternate seeing him so that the muscles were loose, and then seeing my chiropractor for the adjustment to my neck and pelvis for the subluxations and rotations. That way, the chiropractic adjustments started to hold where previously the knotted muscles were just pulling the skeletal structure right back out of alignment. Anyway, it worked for me and remains my first choice for treatment.

The thyroid problem is a WHOLE nother ball of wax, and whatever pain is associated with it is different than the pain I was experiencing before. HA, I don't know about you, but I always have trouble answering those questions in the doctor's office....rate your pain on a scale of 1 - 10. Ten being WHAT, exactly ? Gnawed on by rats ? The Catherine Wheel ? These are the jokes.

[lejajo]

Hi, i have been diagnosed with an underactive thyroid, i started taking Eutirox medication and within a week i had terrible lower back pain, I already have three herniated discs but for some years now have been able to manage my pain with yoga pilates ect. The doctors deny any connection between my thyroid meds and my crippling lower back pain but i stopped taking the medication and the pain has gone away. I need to take thyroid meds to sort out my problem. has anybody heard of this? or can anybody recommend a pain relief for my back which I can take at the same time as the thyroid meds????
thanks you

[LazyMoose]

Some people have suspected this.

Its kind of hard to say thy med was for sure the reason of the pain if you only took it for a short time.

Eutirox is levothyroxine, T4 med only. Is your free T3 low and did taking a T4 only med widen the gap of your FT3 to FT4?

Most feel best with FT3 at 2/3 high in the range. T3 is most responsible for muscle and nerve health, not T4 levels.

Just a thought.