Aa
New guy here.. lab results
Hello, I have been on naturethroid 1.125 grains for about 6 weeks. I feel extremely hyper.
symptoms include:
ringing in ears
rapid heart rate after taking meds
cant sleep , feel too charged up
stomache issues
anxiety
my labs Ft3 3.0 range 2.3 to 3.6
ft4 .7 ranges .8 to 1.8
doctor switching me to WP thyroid to try it and she is doing ZRT x 4 test.
does anyone have any ideas of why i feel hyper with hypo labs? I don't think wp is going to make a difference honestly but ill play along.
symptoms include:
ringing in ears
rapid heart rate after taking meds
cant sleep , feel too charged up
stomache issues
anxiety
my labs Ft3 3.0 range 2.3 to 3.6
ft4 .7 ranges .8 to 1.8
doctor switching me to WP thyroid to try it and she is doing ZRT x 4 test.
does anyone have any ideas of why i feel hyper with hypo labs? I don't think wp is going to make a difference honestly but ill play along.
not horribly racy, but it comes and goes after about 4 pm. around the time all the t3 wears off. I wonder if its the body just trying to keep up with the demand?
COMMUNITY LEADER
Is your heart "really" racing or does it just "feel" like it's racing? Remember, normal heart rate is 60-100. Mine had been so low when I was at my most hypo that, even when it started coming into the "normal" range, it felt like it was racing.
Your labs are still really hypo... I'm beginning to wonder if you're going to have to add some T4 to bring your FT4 into range... the desiccated doesn't seem to be doing it for you.
You said you felt best on 88 mcg synthroid; maybe you should think about going back to that, with a little cytomel. Just something to think about.
Your labs are still really hypo... I'm beginning to wonder if you're going to have to add some T4 to bring your FT4 into range... the desiccated doesn't seem to be doing it for you.
You said you felt best on 88 mcg synthroid; maybe you should think about going back to that, with a little cytomel. Just something to think about.
ps. i haven't been on here in a while.
TSH 37
ft4 .6
ft3 3.0
MEDICATED
they bumped me by 16.25 :) still not enough. going on week 2 of the increase.
they also checked my neurotransmitters to see if anything was whacked out but they seem to be in check...
My heart races but i think it races because im HYPO and its struggling to keep up. definitely cant be hyper with those **** labs. right?
TSH 37
ft4 .6
ft3 3.0
MEDICATED
they bumped me by 16.25 :) still not enough. going on week 2 of the increase.
they also checked my neurotransmitters to see if anything was whacked out but they seem to be in check...
My heart races but i think it races because im HYPO and its struggling to keep up. definitely cant be hyper with those **** labs. right?
COMMUNITY LEADER
I don't think you need the morning cytomel, since you're taking 3/4 of your WP in the morning. You do probably need to, slowly, increase the WP, though, adding more to the afternoon dosage to even them out better.
If your WP dosage was high enough, I'm not sure you'd need the cytomel at all.
Will be interesting to see the results of the labs you had drawn on Friday.
If your WP dosage was high enough, I'm not sure you'd need the cytomel at all.
Will be interesting to see the results of the labs you had drawn on Friday.
I just had labs friday. Honestly my last labs were in the toilet and I'm only taking like this:
wake up: take 3/4 grain wp + 2.5 cytomel
about 2 pm take 1/4 grain wp + 2.5 cytomel
total day: 1 grain + 5 cytomel
I feel completely fatigued, depressed and anxious from about 11 am till about 3 every day. Its horrible. My labs show I'm very hypo, but i feel almost hyper. How the heck can you tell the difference? the depression is horrid.
wake up: take 3/4 grain wp + 2.5 cytomel
about 2 pm take 1/4 grain wp + 2.5 cytomel
total day: 1 grain + 5 cytomel
I feel completely fatigued, depressed and anxious from about 11 am till about 3 every day. Its horrible. My labs show I'm very hypo, but i feel almost hyper. How the heck can you tell the difference? the depression is horrid.
COMMUNITY LEADER
You were low at 360, but you could probably have taken an oral supplement just as easily as you could take a shot. The other doctors are saying you're fine, because you are, with levels at 800-1000, but, again, you can probably keep them there with oral supplements.
You can't go by what the NatureThroid packet says... you have to go by labs and symptoms... How did you feel on the 1.25 grains of NatureThroid? What did your labs look like?
What are you on now?
You can't go by what the NatureThroid packet says... you have to go by labs and symptoms... How did you feel on the 1.25 grains of NatureThroid? What did your labs look like?
What are you on now?
im stopping the B12 shots for a while.
I had one doctor tell me i was low, all the others have told me im fine.
My synthroid dose was .88
i got up to naturethroid 1 and 1/4 grain but the packet says that on .88 i should only be on 3/4 grain?
I had one doctor tell me i was low, all the others have told me im fine.
My synthroid dose was .88
i got up to naturethroid 1 and 1/4 grain but the packet says that on .88 i should only be on 3/4 grain?
I had very bad side effects from B12 injections and switched to sublingual soon afterwards. As I have autoimmune pernicious anaemia I wasn't sure this would work but it did and there is no rollercoaster effect of feeling bad then feeling better with B12 injections.
My side effects due to the B12 injections was serious shortness of breath for 3 days and a 4 month acne rash over the front half my body. Even now 6 years later on the odd occasion my arm aches where I had those B12 injections.
My symptoms with the sublingual B12 spray are blackheads on my chest (not too bad though unless I take too much sublingual B12 spray), and a headache when I stopped B12 for a short time (I had run out and B12 deficiency symptoms came back very quickly) and restarted it but did take a bit too much after not taking any and my brain did not like that. Note to self: don't do that again lol.
***
Experiencing vitamin B 12 side effects can be rare; however, they do occur. Vitamin B 12 delivered through tablets or sublingual supplements will have fewer potential side effects than vitamin B 12 injections. The following side effects have been noted in both oral supplementation and injections of vitamin B12 unless otherwise noted. The most common side effects of vitamin B 12 supplementation include:
Allergic reactions to preservatives in the preparation for the injection
Mild diarrhea
Anxiety
Panic attacks
Heart palpitations
Insomnia
Breathing problems
Chest pain
Rash and/or hives
Itchy skin
Heartburn
Vomiting
Back pain
Rhinitis (stuffy nose)
In extremely rare cases, the following side effects have been noted:
Congestive heart failure
Pulmonary edema
Peripheral vascular thrombosis (blood clots in the arms and legs)
Folliculitis
Inflammatory acne
Anaphylaxis (most likely related to preservatives used in vitamin B 12 injections)
Because vitamin B 12 is a water soluble supplement, oral supplementation can often lead to bright yellow, strongly scented urine. This is a very common occurrence. Risks of side effects increase with dosage and method of delivery, with vitamin B12 injections having the highest incidence of reported severe side effects and oral supplementation having the lowest incidence of reported side effects, which were mostly mild and transitory."
My side effects due to the B12 injections was serious shortness of breath for 3 days and a 4 month acne rash over the front half my body. Even now 6 years later on the odd occasion my arm aches where I had those B12 injections.
My symptoms with the sublingual B12 spray are blackheads on my chest (not too bad though unless I take too much sublingual B12 spray), and a headache when I stopped B12 for a short time (I had run out and B12 deficiency symptoms came back very quickly) and restarted it but did take a bit too much after not taking any and my brain did not like that. Note to self: don't do that again lol.
***
Experiencing vitamin B 12 side effects can be rare; however, they do occur. Vitamin B 12 delivered through tablets or sublingual supplements will have fewer potential side effects than vitamin B 12 injections. The following side effects have been noted in both oral supplementation and injections of vitamin B12 unless otherwise noted. The most common side effects of vitamin B 12 supplementation include:
Allergic reactions to preservatives in the preparation for the injection
Mild diarrhea
Anxiety
Panic attacks
Heart palpitations
Insomnia
Breathing problems
Chest pain
Rash and/or hives
Itchy skin
Heartburn
Vomiting
Back pain
Rhinitis (stuffy nose)
In extremely rare cases, the following side effects have been noted:
Congestive heart failure
Pulmonary edema
Peripheral vascular thrombosis (blood clots in the arms and legs)
Folliculitis
Inflammatory acne
Anaphylaxis (most likely related to preservatives used in vitamin B 12 injections)
Because vitamin B 12 is a water soluble supplement, oral supplementation can often lead to bright yellow, strongly scented urine. This is a very common occurrence. Risks of side effects increase with dosage and method of delivery, with vitamin B12 injections having the highest incidence of reported severe side effects and oral supplementation having the lowest incidence of reported side effects, which were mostly mild and transitory."
COMMUNITY LEADER
If you don't have Pernicious Anemia or gut absorption issues, consider stopping the shots altogether and go to a daily sublingual or liquid... I have a rather selfish reason for saying this... There's actually a shortage of injectible vitamin B-12 and if it hasn't hit your area yet, it will soon... the cost of injectible B-12 in drugstores in my area has quadrupled since I refilled my script 3 months ago. Your insurance might cover it, but neither Medicare, nor my supplement does so it's all out of pocket. My script went from $43.00 for 12 - 1 mL in vials in May to $184 for 12 - 1 mL vials yesterday and I've read that they are not manufacturing it right now, with no time frame for when they will start again, so we might not even be able to get it. I have Pernicious Anemia and injectible B-12 is all that works for me; if anything else worked, I'd use it. I've been through shortages before and they're devastating for those of us who really need the injectible; it's a long haul back. Please don't use injectible if you really don't have absorption problems.
We'll have to re-aquaint because I don't know what dose of NatureThroid you were on or what dose of WP you're on now. "Room spinning, nausea, uneasy, pulse feels up, but its not." Yep, had that happen, when I was hypo; felt like like my heart was racing out of my chest and when I checked it, it might be a whole 70 bpm... lol
I think you often mix up hyper and hypo symptoms and you expect results too soon; that doesn't happen with most meds - you even have to wait an a while for an aspirin or tylenol to knock out a headache... even with T3 for most of us - there is no "immediate" feeling. The med has to have time to dissolve and circulate into your system before you can feel it - you can't feel it the instant you swallow it...
Your dosage of NatureThroid was??? and your dosage of WP is??? And if you felt relatively good on 88 mcg synthroid, but not optimal, why didn't you stay there and add a small T3?
Your problem, all along has been that you don't stick with anything long enough to let it work, even if it only needs a small tweek... A couple months, even a few months, often isn't long enough... nothing with thyroid goes quickly...
Patience is a virtue when it comes to thyroid treatment.
We'll have to re-aquaint because I don't know what dose of NatureThroid you were on or what dose of WP you're on now. "Room spinning, nausea, uneasy, pulse feels up, but its not." Yep, had that happen, when I was hypo; felt like like my heart was racing out of my chest and when I checked it, it might be a whole 70 bpm... lol
I think you often mix up hyper and hypo symptoms and you expect results too soon; that doesn't happen with most meds - you even have to wait an a while for an aspirin or tylenol to knock out a headache... even with T3 for most of us - there is no "immediate" feeling. The med has to have time to dissolve and circulate into your system before you can feel it - you can't feel it the instant you swallow it...
Your dosage of NatureThroid was??? and your dosage of WP is??? And if you felt relatively good on 88 mcg synthroid, but not optimal, why didn't you stay there and add a small T3?
Your problem, all along has been that you don't stick with anything long enough to let it work, even if it only needs a small tweek... A couple months, even a few months, often isn't long enough... nothing with thyroid goes quickly...
Patience is a virtue when it comes to thyroid treatment.
4. Every week. I think im going to cut back. 1 ML might be too much. but i don't think that is my issue.
6b NEVER. The best I've felt is .88 synthroid. this was still falling asleep at my desk. if i drove it higher to 100 synthroid i felt hyper.
I just got switched from naturethroid to wp thyroid . today was my first day. I didnt think id feel any different, but i can tell im very HYPO today. Room spinning, nausea, uneasy, pulse feels up, but its not.
I also just finished my 4 time cortisol test but didnt want to overnight it because its friday, i thought i would wait till monday. Its in the freezer now. Never knew spit got freeze.
6b NEVER. The best I've felt is .88 synthroid. this was still falling asleep at my desk. if i drove it higher to 100 synthroid i felt hyper.
I just got switched from naturethroid to wp thyroid . today was my first day. I didnt think id feel any different, but i can tell im very HYPO today. Room spinning, nausea, uneasy, pulse feels up, but its not.
I also just finished my 4 time cortisol test but didnt want to overnight it because its friday, i thought i would wait till monday. Its in the freezer now. Never knew spit got freeze.
COMMUNITY LEADER
Sorry, I missed your response this morning...
1) I'd actually thought you were getting off the klonopin a while back, so my thought was really just a stab in the dark. Loss of appetite is a major side effect of klonopin, so that could account for your weight loss...
2) Your cortisol levels seem to be working backwards; should be higher in the morning, but if you have something stressful going on, I can see higher levels in the afternoon, as well. Would be interesting to see what they were like in the evening at at bedtime.
3) TSH fluctuates as much as 75% over the course of a day, so you can't really go by that very much, as we've told you from day 1.
4) How often are you injecting B-12? Most people only have to inject once a month; I do mine weekly, but that's pretty rare. It's cyanocobalamin and is prescribed in mL, so you should be taking 1 mL with each shot. Your syringe should be very thin and only hold 1 mL...
check on that to be sure and check your script to make sure it's only 1 mL.
You really should be okay with levels at 800-1000, but we're all different and that could be too much for you.
5) Yes, I pushed through a lot of agony, because my doctor wasn't cooperating... he kept saying I was hyper because of low TSH, but I was really hypo - I had symptoms of each, but it was ALL hypo. I certainly wasn't losing any weight, but then, as I noted above, your weight loss could be, at least partially attributed to the klonopin. I also have chronic ear ringing, but I've had that for many, many years and I just deal with it - one day, I'll wear a hearing aid because of it, since it affects my ability to hear other sounds. I was sick, caring my elderly aunt and never missed a single day of work... so yes, I was stressed to the limit; there were days I felt like I couldn't go any further, but I did.
6) No, I don't think some people just can't handle T3... Your own thyroid produced both T4 and T3. Everyone needs it to some degree. There are those who don't as high levels as others; it's very possible you're one of those. Some people also have a higher TSH; you could also be one of those...
Is there ever a time since you had your TT that you felt anywhere near optimized?
1) I'd actually thought you were getting off the klonopin a while back, so my thought was really just a stab in the dark. Loss of appetite is a major side effect of klonopin, so that could account for your weight loss...
2) Your cortisol levels seem to be working backwards; should be higher in the morning, but if you have something stressful going on, I can see higher levels in the afternoon, as well. Would be interesting to see what they were like in the evening at at bedtime.
3) TSH fluctuates as much as 75% over the course of a day, so you can't really go by that very much, as we've told you from day 1.
4) How often are you injecting B-12? Most people only have to inject once a month; I do mine weekly, but that's pretty rare. It's cyanocobalamin and is prescribed in mL, so you should be taking 1 mL with each shot. Your syringe should be very thin and only hold 1 mL...
check on that to be sure and check your script to make sure it's only 1 mL.
You really should be okay with levels at 800-1000, but we're all different and that could be too much for you.
5) Yes, I pushed through a lot of agony, because my doctor wasn't cooperating... he kept saying I was hyper because of low TSH, but I was really hypo - I had symptoms of each, but it was ALL hypo. I certainly wasn't losing any weight, but then, as I noted above, your weight loss could be, at least partially attributed to the klonopin. I also have chronic ear ringing, but I've had that for many, many years and I just deal with it - one day, I'll wear a hearing aid because of it, since it affects my ability to hear other sounds. I was sick, caring my elderly aunt and never missed a single day of work... so yes, I was stressed to the limit; there were days I felt like I couldn't go any further, but I did.
6) No, I don't think some people just can't handle T3... Your own thyroid produced both T4 and T3. Everyone needs it to some degree. There are those who don't as high levels as others; it's very possible you're one of those. Some people also have a higher TSH; you could also be one of those...
Is there ever a time since you had your TT that you felt anywhere near optimized?
wow now thats a mouthful. I don't even know where to start but let me try to step through this.
1. Klonipin. I am guilty as charged. I need to get off of this stuff or get down on it. However, without it i have a hard time sleeping. Thats my biggest issue. I will try to cut back.
2. The cortisol. The one that was 3.1 ranges 3.0 to 12 was done at 8:30 am. I literally woke up, put my shoes on and went to the lab. The second one was done at 2:30 during a parathyroid work up. It was something he added in. 2 different doctors, both doing cortisol.
3. TSH- this is something i forgot to mention. 2 weeks ago i went and had a physical. They did tsh only. Then the next day i had the parathyroid work up, he did it as well. Day 1 was 7.7, day 2 was 14.7. Go figure
4. Do you think the B-12 i am injecting might be too much and possibly contributing to my over energy level Barb? Its the red stuff i inject. Cyclobobulin i think. I am doing quite a bit. Its the entire syringe - is that 1.0 CC i think? my unmedicated levels were about 360. Medicated they are 800- 1000. Too much maybe?
5. Are you saying that you pushed through the agony of feeling hyper to feel better? i mean i lost 5 pounds, chronic ear ringing, chronic chronic dire where i felt like my ribs hurt at the end of the day. Stressed, agitated, dooms day feeling.
6. do you think that some people just cannot handle t3? it just seems so un-natural to me to take naturethroid. But on synthroid my ft4 was always perfectly beautiful and the t3 was 2.3 ranges 2.3- 3.6. no conversion but maybe i personally don't need conversion?
1. Klonipin. I am guilty as charged. I need to get off of this stuff or get down on it. However, without it i have a hard time sleeping. Thats my biggest issue. I will try to cut back.
2. The cortisol. The one that was 3.1 ranges 3.0 to 12 was done at 8:30 am. I literally woke up, put my shoes on and went to the lab. The second one was done at 2:30 during a parathyroid work up. It was something he added in. 2 different doctors, both doing cortisol.
3. TSH- this is something i forgot to mention. 2 weeks ago i went and had a physical. They did tsh only. Then the next day i had the parathyroid work up, he did it as well. Day 1 was 7.7, day 2 was 14.7. Go figure
4. Do you think the B-12 i am injecting might be too much and possibly contributing to my over energy level Barb? Its the red stuff i inject. Cyclobobulin i think. I am doing quite a bit. Its the entire syringe - is that 1.0 CC i think? my unmedicated levels were about 360. Medicated they are 800- 1000. Too much maybe?
5. Are you saying that you pushed through the agony of feeling hyper to feel better? i mean i lost 5 pounds, chronic ear ringing, chronic chronic dire where i felt like my ribs hurt at the end of the day. Stressed, agitated, dooms day feeling.
6. do you think that some people just cannot handle t3? it just seems so un-natural to me to take naturethroid. But on synthroid my ft4 was always perfectly beautiful and the t3 was 2.3 ranges 2.3- 3.6. no conversion but maybe i personally don't need conversion?
COMMUNITY LEADER
Hey there. I'll ride along... I think I, too, could dig up some information that might be important contributors and since gimel covered the vitamins and cortisol, I'll cover other meds that could cause same symptoms.
Anti-depressants, anti-anxiety meds (klonopin comes to mind) have an effect on your sleep/wake cycles, can also affect anxiety levels, etc. Blood pressure and other prescription meds also have profound effects on how thyroid hormones are absorbed/affect your body, so if you're taking any new prescription medications, no matter how benign they may seem, you might want to check side effects, because very few drugs come without side effects... some make you tired, some wake you up, some make you lose weight, some make you gain, some cause ringing in the ears - it's unreal what I uncovered about the side effects of some of the drugs I'd been prescribed and no longer take...
No need to eat poop - that's acky and will really raise cortisol levels... lol The saliva cortisol is, supposedly, the most accurate, as long as it's done over a 24 hr period should give you the best result.
Your first cortisol was 3.0... what time of day was that? What time in the afternoon was the second one? It really does make a difference on the exact times, because Cortisol should be high in the morning, getting you ready for the day, dwindling as the day goes on and lowest in the evening getting you ready to sleep at night...
I know your sleep cycles were backwards for some time, so perhaps your cortisol levels are too?
Vitamin D is good, "B" - is that B-12? If so, it's good, but for you, if you're supplementing lower your dose and see if it helps you sleep (never thought I'd say "that" to anyone... lol); if you're not supplementing, it's great.
What "stomach issues" are you having?
I had every one of your symptoms when I was very hypo. As gimel noted, many symptoms do apply to both hyper an hypo and unfortunately, you don't have any that exclusive to hyper...
I'm not sure you've ever let yourself get to a high enough dosage to really relieve your symptoms... it can be scary - it was for me, because I'd heard horror stories about going hyper and I didn't want that to happen; I thought it did when I had some symptoms, until I realized how deceiving the symptoms can be.
Anti-depressants, anti-anxiety meds (klonopin comes to mind) have an effect on your sleep/wake cycles, can also affect anxiety levels, etc. Blood pressure and other prescription meds also have profound effects on how thyroid hormones are absorbed/affect your body, so if you're taking any new prescription medications, no matter how benign they may seem, you might want to check side effects, because very few drugs come without side effects... some make you tired, some wake you up, some make you lose weight, some make you gain, some cause ringing in the ears - it's unreal what I uncovered about the side effects of some of the drugs I'd been prescribed and no longer take...
No need to eat poop - that's acky and will really raise cortisol levels... lol The saliva cortisol is, supposedly, the most accurate, as long as it's done over a 24 hr period should give you the best result.
Your first cortisol was 3.0... what time of day was that? What time in the afternoon was the second one? It really does make a difference on the exact times, because Cortisol should be high in the morning, getting you ready for the day, dwindling as the day goes on and lowest in the evening getting you ready to sleep at night...
I know your sleep cycles were backwards for some time, so perhaps your cortisol levels are too?
Vitamin D is good, "B" - is that B-12? If so, it's good, but for you, if you're supplementing lower your dose and see if it helps you sleep (never thought I'd say "that" to anyone... lol); if you're not supplementing, it's great.
What "stomach issues" are you having?
I had every one of your symptoms when I was very hypo. As gimel noted, many symptoms do apply to both hyper an hypo and unfortunately, you don't have any that exclusive to hyper...
I'm not sure you've ever let yourself get to a high enough dosage to really relieve your symptoms... it can be scary - it was for me, because I'd heard horror stories about going hyper and I didn't want that to happen; I thought it did when I had some symptoms, until I realized how deceiving the symptoms can be.
please note, i never feel good when my tsh is "in range" but for conversation purposes its 14.1 now
D is 74
B is 800
Testosterone 574
Blood cortisol. I had it tested last week twice. the first time it was 3.0 range 3.0 to 12. that was low
The second time it was 12.74 ranges 6 -18 that was afternoon
I have a saliva test I am doing tomorrow. She thinks i need to have it checked. Im not a big believer on the saliva test but at this point ill eat poop.
B is 800
Testosterone 574
Blood cortisol. I had it tested last week twice. the first time it was 3.0 range 3.0 to 12. that was low
The second time it was 12.74 ranges 6 -18 that was afternoon
I have a saliva test I am doing tomorrow. She thinks i need to have it checked. Im not a big believer on the saliva test but at this point ill eat poop.
I don't think I would want to try and assess your status with only that info. Your Free T4 is below range and your Free T3 is at about 54% of its range, while taking a relatively small dose of NatureThroid. Usually I would expect those results to be indicative of being hypothyroid, not hyper. The symptoms you mention can be related to either hypo or hyper. So I think we need to know your test results when you were feeling your best. Also what med and dosage were you taking at that time.
Even though you are a "new guy" I might be able to look back through extensive posts with info on other things that I can think of that are important as possible contributors. So, please save me all that time and also post test results on Vitamin D, B12 and ferritin. Also any tests on cortisol levels.
Even though you are a "new guy" I might be able to look back through extensive posts with info on other things that I can think of that are important as possible contributors. So, please save me all that time and also post test results on Vitamin D, B12 and ferritin. Also any tests on cortisol levels.
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