Positive EBV titer...can thyroid problems be attributed to this?
My bloodwork came back positive for the Epstein-Barr Virus--my levels are > 5 where the normal range is < 0.9. I also tested positive for the parvovirus (B19, I'm guessing?). My level for this was 3.2, where the normal range is or = to 125) and my TSH was 1.47 (range: 0.4 - 4.5); these were measured around 12pm, and I know TSH is at its lowest level around 2pm. My TSH seems to be fairly high when it's measured in the morning, and has been around 5.5 at 8am. I'm thinking sub-acute thyroiditis as a result of EBV, but I don't have a sore throat, much less a really bad one, and my RAIU results were elevated, not decreased.
I'm just a little confused..........................
I am no expert, but I think you will always test positive after being infected with EBV. You may have an active case years ago. I had Mono a couple years ago and that is what I understand. You are not contagious and do not have symptoms, but will be positive.
I had EBV a few years ago and have had nothing but trouble since. My EBV when tested always comes out to 1. That was after I was cleared from having it. So the elevated level leads me to think either you just contracted it within the past few weeks or are starting to recover from it. Did the doctors tell you what stage you were in? They can tell from the bloodwork and how many cells are making antibodies against EBV. Yes Cindy40 is right, you will always test 'positive' for it, just not in the range where docs would say you have an active case. They will simply know you had it in the past by seeing the value. Although I would have them check for other strains of Mono as there are many more than just EBV.
As far as Parvo B19 it's basically the childhood Fifth Disease. The slapped-cheek syndrome. It's a rash that can cover your hands, face, feet, neck, torso, and back. In adults you'll want to watch out for arthritis symptoms. It's common to last a week to 3 weeks, but if it persists for months you need to have that taken care of through your doctor. The rash typically lasts 5 weeks (hence Fifths Disease) and will resolve itself.
I had this as a child and am fine. It's really more annoying than anything. Although I suspect you contracted Parvo from a child who had it due to your current Mono situation. You will probably contract other minor illnesses (flu, cold, etc...) if you aren't careful of who you are around. Mono can wreak havoc if you let it. I'd say stay low and have minimal contact with people. Granted you probably have to go to work like most of us. Just wash your hands and let people know you have mono. I got it from a co-worker who didn't say anything and had it for a while. All you have to do is sneeze in the vacinity of a person and they can catch it. Note I said can. Avoid groups of small children too as the school year is about to kick off and this is the time they spread their germs and get whole households sick unintentionally.
Also look into getting Ester-C. It's a specific brand of Vitamin C. It really helps the immune system get a good boost. At the very least it will start helping your body to recover. It's one of the homeopathic remedies for Mono instead of sitting around waiting for it to go away.
---Not sure how Mono will affect the Thyroid during. I didn't start having my issues with Thyroid for a year post-Mono. Maybe another member can answer that.
I've tested positive for EBV in the past, but not with a level like this one, apparently. I didn't know that they actually distinguished "active" cases of EBV from non-active, positive results. I don't think any other specific EBV bloodwork was tested, but I'm expecting my GP to order a panel when I see her next. You're both right (Cindy40 and KD9ER) when you say that once you have EBV, you test positive for it the rest of your life. My mom and sister both test positive for it, and they occasionally get cold sores, so I imagine I probably picked it up from them when I was very young.
I've never tested positive for mono, but a few years ago my (now ex) boyfriend had mono, and I just assumed I probably picked it up from him since I came home from college for winter break and slept 32 hours during the first 48 hours I was home. The test results came back negative, though...they always have (not just the mono spot-test; I've had more detailed bloodwork done).
What's confusing me now is that I've been sick for nearly 4 months now--and when I say sick, I don't mean the constant fatigue, headaches, and other minimal problems I've had throughout my life; I mean the bunch of symptoms that just showed up slowly over the course of several weeks and haven't gone away since (like the swollen, yet painless, throat; swelling joints that ache sometimes, puffy eyelids, dry skin, etc.). I don't have a fever or a terrible sore throat, which are very common with infectious mono...I haven't had this at all in the past four months. My body temperature is actually lower than normal by a little more than a degree, my heart rate is faster, my blood pressure is lower, and it's a lot easier for me to lose weight and keep it off. I don't feel "bone" pains or even muscle pains (sometimes), so I'm really concerned about what's going on with all this conflicting information that doesn't seem to fit quite right. I'm even more concerned that EBV is associated with some pretty nasty stuff...I'd like to catch anything I have before it's too late.
Thanks for your input so far, everyone! I really, really appreciate it. I definitely agree that the parvovirus infection is probably a result of my weakened immune system. I just need to figure out why my immune system is weak........
Has your doctor looked into Thyroid problems? Sounds like that is what you have now. I had mono back in 2003 and then Thyroid problems set in about 6mos to a year later. They were slow but it happened. It sounds a lot like thyroid. Just have them run full panels and see what they come up with. Also if your doc believes in the BBT (basal body temp), that is a good sign something is out of whack with your Thyroid.
I did some reading in some medical journals that talked about epstein-barr virus being One of the causes of thyroid autoimmune disease, hashimotos. There are more than one causes, but they found a lot of findings to back this up. I crashed with epstein-barr about 5 yrs ago....and shortly thereafter began having thyroid issues and diagnosed with hashi's. I had mono when I was in 3rd grade with a dangerously enlarged spleen and was put on bedrest. The epstein barr must have been re-activated 5 yrs ago, i have also tested positive for active mono since then too.
Now I have been suffering terribly with hashi's and trying to regulate my levels and finding the right meds.So, in my opinion I believe that epstein-barr virus is a part of this vicious thyroid cycle. LOL That's my 2 cents! :) :)
p.s. I am not giving into this live with it for the rest of your life sick....I refuse to! I am doing as much as I can to build and support my immune system.
What I am reading here makes a lot of sense. I am hypothyroid, I have the hashimoto antibodies, my epstein-barr is 4.59 and also EBV Nuclear AG (EBNA) is > 5.0. I always got swollen throat, I need to sleep on two pillows to avoid the puffy eyes in the morning and my skin is dry, especially the scalp.
I do not know yet how to connect all these information, I will keep reading this post and see other opinions and I will talk with the doctor.
One more thing. Based on the Epstein-Barr and EBNA test results, the doctor's diagnostic was Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. I checked and I do have the symptoms for the Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.
My only big concern right now is that once I start taking the Armour I start having sore throat when I take the pill; I take it sublingually. Could this be a concern?
Anca- I don't think that taking armour sublingually would give you a sore throat, unless maybe you are sensitive to the fillers.
As far as chronic fatigue syndrome....I get really upset when drs label us with this. I think they came up with a blanket name syndrome for illnesses that they cannot figure out. There is a cause somewhere that causes chronic fatigue as a symptom. Such as: EBV, Lymes disease and co-infections not found, thyroid disease, auto-immune diseases, toxicity due to heavy metals, parasites, candida, and mostly deficiencies. You would be surprised at the amount of people with mineral and vitamin deficiencies. Our food sources just cannot supply it well enough any longer. Our bodies are weak and open to illness and disease when it is lacking the proper nutritional values such as vitamins and weakness. Look how fatigued and sick people get from low iron anemia, B12 anemia, vit D deficiency, etc. Doctors are just now starting to test for these things regularly and treating them. Even a magnesium deficiency can reak complete havoc on your body: including your heart.
I told my drs I would not accept a blanket diagnosis of chronic fatigue....that is was a symptom and they better figure it out! Low and behold....they found active EBV, then hypothyroidism, then hashi's and i was treated for lymes. Once your immune system is weakened, it is opened to more illnesses. That is why they say if you have graves or hashi's you need to be closely watched for other auto immune diseases.
In closing....lol.....don't settle! Make them figure it out!!
I am relief the Armour cannot cause the sore throat as I do want to keep taking this medication.
In my case I am confused. I was first diagnostic with Hyperthyroid, then Hashimoto then CFS. Looking back I believe the EBV was the fist one and also the cause of my thyroid problem. Being a child I was prone to infections, I always got the flu or colds that were just treated with antibiotics. Nobody mentioned anything about immune system or how to build it. Yes, I start taking vitamins and I can say I do not have the flu or colds as often as before but now the thyroid is my main problem. I agree we need to know what our bodies need, but can we find a doctor capable enough to tell us what we really need?
Let me know if you have any good ideas, in the same time I will keep looking myself as maybe will get an answer. So far I am taking the Armour, I take multy, vit C, B12, multy Bs, calcium, D3. What else is there that I need?
yes over the years they have come a long way in learning about the immune system, but main stream medical still doesn't know how to really build it up and repair it. That is why we have to be our own advocates. It wasnt until I started learning holitstic and natural health that i started to really understand the body systems. The most important is to make sure you are getting a good grade of multi and minerals along with the extras you have stated. If you are mineral deficient your body cannot repair itself. Don't just go to walmart to buy them either. You want to go to a health food store and get a good brand. Take a look at the armour health pages here and see the exact types of c and b12 that i listed....it makes a diff. cheap b's will just go through your system without any benefit. Greens are excellent for our immune systems too. They promote natural detox and are extremely healthy nutrition.
Wow...thanks for all of the responses, everyone! I just noticed them now (sorry) and I'm going to read through them and respond in due time...I'm just glad to know I'm not crazy when I tried to explain to my doctor that the presence of EBV in my system is probably not helping my thyroid one bit.
But yes, I think the EBV is no good, in general, and can cause a lot of problems. It'd help if scientists knew how it functioned so we could figure out how it's promoting the formation of these other diseases.
You mentioned about learning holistic and natural health. Do you use the Internet or some other sources?
When you are mentioning Greens, are you referring at food or supplements?
I remember years back I used Dr. Gary Null's Green Stuff product. I think I will try it again.
If you look under FORUMS, for the EBV, you will also find some helpful information. Many people are talking about their experience with EBV and various treatments. Unfortunately, the only treatment is just using supplements. How my doctor told me, the treatment for the EBV is so radical that he will not recommend it.
I have taken lots of courses and read lot of books and read internet. There are many types of greens out there...I take green vibrance but there are a lot of good ones out there.
The most important think I took for my EBV other than the medical grade supplements was red marine algae. I also took E3live for a while too. Both are anti viral for the herpes family of viruses....that is what EBV is. My family of women have all tested positive and most of us have come down with active acute. Even my 12 yr old daughter recently was activated and sick. There are ways to combat it so you dont have to remain sick. My dr handed me disability papers and I said no way! My mom completely remissioned hers within 6 yrs. I did it in 4. Unfortunately I ended up with hashis and hypo....which i said above is probably due to the ebv. My daughter is doing great...thank God it happend right before summer so i had the summer to get her well with lots of rest!
I tested positive about 16 years ago, but the doc said that doesn't mean i have it at the moment, that once you have had it, you always test positive and that you had it at some point in the past.? and it is pretty common and most people will test positive for it, and will have it at some point?
who knows.? everything so darn complicated i can't keep it straight.
I tested positive and active a little over 2 years ago for Mono. I have told my current Dr. this, and she says there is no connection to my hypothyroid. I knewn that is when my stmptoms started, and I have not felt normal since. Just by looking at this thread disproves her statement. I have also read that high EBV titers after infectious mono is linked to MS.
My Dr. is referring to a Rhematologist. Hope to get some answers.
I never knew there was treatment for EBV. I will look at the EBV forum.
Can you tell me more in how you managed to get well? Looks like you and your mother were able to treat yourself. My confusion is that my doctor told me this is something I got long time ago but I will always have it as is imbedded already into my DNA. Does this make sense? How did you know you got in remission? The blood test results?
In the EBV forum they are talking about the Marshall Protocol and the Dr. David Jernigan's Protocol. Did you hear about these? Any good?
Once you test positive for EBV, you will always test positive for it. However, this doesn't mean EBV is always "active" in your system, causing problems. There's an EBV panel that looks at 6 different levels of proteins related to EBV; the relative levels of these can indicate whether or not you have an "active" EBV infection. Unfortunately, there is no cure for EBV. Most people who test positive for EBV don't have any problems associated with it, though, so it isn't anything for doctors to write home about. Little is known about this virus or its function, as we still don't understand much about viruses.
When you do get a bad case of EBV or you become very sick from contracting it for the first time, EBV has been known to cause many more serious illnesses, much of them autoimmune. Scientists haven't figure out how or why, yet, but it's something that doctors keep in the back of their minds when treating patients (or so I hope). Autoimmune diseases frequently plague people more than once; i.e. if you have Graves disease, it wouldn't be shocking if you were to develop other autoimmune diseases down the road, like lupus, mono, or Rheumatoid arthritis.
Anca77--I believe what your doctor was trying to tell you was that EBV is going to be in your system forever, and in order to contract this virus, your DNA has to have the "necessary tools" in order to do so. It's difficult to explain, but basically your genetics have to predispose you to catch this virus. In all likelihood, this means you will probably get it (and you did)...though it doesn't specify when, or how. It's the same way with a lot of other illnesses. For example, if your family has a history of diabetes, you are at a higher risk for diabetes because of genetics. This doesn't mean you will automatically get diabetes one day, because eating right and exercising your whole life can ensure that you don't "trip" this bad DNA.
This whole theory is considered "mechanobiology"--you have to have the precursors in order to develop the end product, but that doesn't necessarily mean you will get the end product. If I had the ability to grow long copper nails or something, but I never consumed any copper as part of my diet, then I would never grow long copper nails. But if I consumed plenty of copper--a precursor for this--then my cells would act like the little machines they are and begin producing my copper nails. I couldn't do this without copper, though. Just like you won't get EBV if you aren't exposed to it. And just because you're exposed to it doesn't mean you're automatically going to catch it.
Thank you for taking your time to answer. Makes sense, unfortunately this virus bothers me a lot. In addition, the worst is I believe it is the cause of my thyroid/Hasi problem.
Right now I am trying to understand its cause and especially to find some kind of cure. I understand it cannot be eradicated from the body but I just want to prevent it from becoming active, as it is not a walk in the park when it does.
Thank you again and I just wish you get all the help you need with your problems.
I just realized that my initial post got messed up after I posted it (probably a result of using some symbol that this site doesn't recognize, or something...this has happened to me in the past).
The sentence that was messed up should've read:
"My level for this was 3.2, where the normal range is less than or equal to 0.9. My TSI was 103, where the normal range was less than or equal to 125, and my TSH was 1.47 (range: 0.4 - 4.5); these were measured around 12pm, and I know TSH is at its lowest level around 2pm."
I hope that makes more sense!
Anca77--no problem; thanks for your well wishes! I certainly could use them right now. I hope you are able to get your EBV under control; I definitely think it is wreaking havoc in your system and contributing to your thyroid problems. Your poor immune system is compromised as a result of this nasty virus, making you much more prone to the unleashing of the autoimmune diseases hidden within your DNA, or other illnesses you might not have caught if your immune system were healthy in the first place.
Usually, an EBV panel is done and the doctor will interpret the results of this panel to determine whether or not the infection is current. Those suffering from a chronic EBV infection test positive for antibodies to the viral capsid antigen and EBNA, as do most people who have been infected with EBV in the past (95% of the population), but they will also test positive for antibodies to the early antigen--or show much higher elevated numbers, suggesting a reactivation of the virus. Unfortunately, scientists have been unable to correlate any lab values for EBV to people who have been chronically ill for longer than 4 months, so doctors are supposed to look for other illnesses or settle with a diagnosis of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome if a patient has been sick for longer than 6 months. They're still a little shaky on correlating EBV with anything besides mononucleosis and herpes, it seems..............which is kind of worrisome given how often elevated titers of EBV antibodies show up with other illnesses.
Anca77--if you still read this, you might want to talk to mommy2two2008. She was taking Armour for awhile and has tested positive for EBV, though I can't comment on whether or not this is occurring in her case (but I bet she can comment on it!).
I really wonder if my spleen and liver are still swollen...because if they are and I still have an "inactive" EBV infection, then where is this symptom coming from?!?
I don't think EBV settles in one place so much as it circulates throughout the bloodstream and occasionally wreaks havoc in certain places as it's traveling along. In that sense, I think it's possible for EBV to be causing either direct damage to the thyroid or some sort of indirect damage. I don't know that the actual virus itself is attacking and destroying thyroid cells, but I suppose it's possible.
First Endo visit Tomm.--Does a good Endo have the right training to deal with EBV if this may be the problem?? Have a history of really high IgG numbers but not the IgM from what I have been told many times means you dont have it now--also high IgG for Parvo and CMV??
Hmmm I wouldn't say an endo has the appropriate training to deal with EBV--you're probably going to want to see an infectious disease specialist if you have a history of high IgG number. Parvovirus is common to test positive for, as well, so I doubt this is causing you any trouble, and CMV has the potential to cause mononucleosis, much like EBV, though I don't know too much about it beyond this. It sounds like you have some sort of chronic viral infection(s) and an endo won't be able to help you out here. They will only help treat or alleviate the symptoms that involve the endocrine system, but they probably won't be able to fix the root of the problem. I'd start by talking to your GP about this, then seeing an infectious disease specialist and/or an immunologist.
Been there done that, IM says it not EBV and the following is the ENDO visit:
Endo appt. did not go real, He kept asking me why I was there?--Seeing as my Thyroid panels were normal--Keep in mind this Endo is the ONLY one for 200mile radius. He acted like I bothered him. He went ahead and did a Thyroid Panel and a Testistorone test just to get me out of there--Not a good day--so Where does one go from here--If its not in lab reports or film you have no options???????
I tested positive for mono about 4 years ago. Fever and terrible soar throat for 2 weeks with fatigue for another 3 weeks. Right now I am having the majority symptoms of hypo. A couple people tell me, oh you just have mono again. I don't think so as I never had fever (my basal temp stays at 98) and never that terrible soar throat (I have a minor soar throat, but my neck has been hurting and getting worse). Armpits starting to hurt also.
Currently waiting on my 2nd set of bloodwork I took Tuesday and a CT scan Wednesday.
With mono 4 years ago, I didn't gain weight like the 12 pounds I gained in the past 2 weeks.
Look into LDN, its stands for Low Dose Naltrexone, it tricks your body in to healing itself by regulating the immune system, its a treatment 90% of Dr do not know about you need to learn about it and tell them its what you want to do.. Big Pharma hates LDN, I myself got off almost all my big pharma daily/weekly drugs thanks go LDN! best of luck many websites about LDN..
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