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Starting Over: New Labs
Hi,
Switched from 150 mcg synthroid and 30 mcg cytomel and worked my way up to 4 grains NDT. Here are my latest labs:
Free T3: 3.9 (2.0-4.4)
Free T4: 1.23 (.93-1.7)
TGAB -100 neg.
TPO 486 pos.
25 Hydroxy D Total: 37 (20-50)
B-12: 1476 (211-946)
Ferritin: 453 (30-400)
Meds not taken until after bloodwork. I was supplementing b12 with otc lozenges but have stopped. No iron supplementation. Symptoms are brain fog with anxiety, constipation (now functional), and lethargy. I think my free T's look good and I'm still not doing well. I'm worried that the high levels of b12 and ferritin indicate something else is going on. I look forward to your opinions.
Thank you very much.
Switched from 150 mcg synthroid and 30 mcg cytomel and worked my way up to 4 grains NDT. Here are my latest labs:
Free T3: 3.9 (2.0-4.4)
Free T4: 1.23 (.93-1.7)
TGAB -100 neg.
TPO 486 pos.
25 Hydroxy D Total: 37 (20-50)
B-12: 1476 (211-946)
Ferritin: 453 (30-400)
Meds not taken until after bloodwork. I was supplementing b12 with otc lozenges but have stopped. No iron supplementation. Symptoms are brain fog with anxiety, constipation (now functional), and lethargy. I think my free T's look good and I'm still not doing well. I'm worried that the high levels of b12 and ferritin indicate something else is going on. I look forward to your opinions.
Thank you very much.
Constipation can very often be relieved by taking magnesium. You would dose up slowly as with anything else, as too much magnesium will cause diarrhea. There are pill forms and a type that dissolves in warm water. I recommend looking into it. You may be surprised at how well it works. Many people are low on magnesium.
COMMUNITY LEADER
" I also noticed that my remaining symptoms of constipation, brain fog and anxiety mimmic symptoms of intestinal candida."
There are a ton of symptoms that mimic candia; there is also a home spit test you can try, to see if that's your problem.
Here's a link to the National Candida Center, with an explanation about the spit test and a list of 80 possible symptoms. Going over the list, I'm sure that most of us could conclude a candida issue; however, we have to keep in mind that all of those symptoms can also apply to other conditions. We do have to be careful of relying too heavily on "Dr Google".
http://www.nationalcandidacenter.com/candida-self-exams/
I did notice that none of us have commented on your low vitamin D level. While your level is "in range", it's far from optimal. The range your lab is using is also quite odd. I've never seen the top end of a vitamin D range, as low as 50; most are twice that high. It's typically recommended that vitamin D levels be kept in the 50-70 range. Are you supplementing?
Another issue is Hashimoto's, indicated by your elevated TPOab. Hashimoto's is "progressive" in that the antibodies continue to do their dirty work until all healthy thyroid tissue is destroyed. As the disease progresses, your thyroid will produce less and less thyroid hormones, so even if you get your levels optimal, at one point, they could decline due to progression of Hashimoto's. Your thyroid meds have to be adjusted to keep up with the decline in hormone production.
One more thing to consider is that, possibly, your levels haven't really been optimal for you. When we say they should be (mid range for FT4 and upper half to upper third for FT3), are just rules of thumb; just targets to aim for until you find the level that's best for you. The hard and fast rule, is what's best for you.
There are a ton of symptoms that mimic candia; there is also a home spit test you can try, to see if that's your problem.
Here's a link to the National Candida Center, with an explanation about the spit test and a list of 80 possible symptoms. Going over the list, I'm sure that most of us could conclude a candida issue; however, we have to keep in mind that all of those symptoms can also apply to other conditions. We do have to be careful of relying too heavily on "Dr Google".
http://www.nationalcandidacenter.com/candida-self-exams/
I did notice that none of us have commented on your low vitamin D level. While your level is "in range", it's far from optimal. The range your lab is using is also quite odd. I've never seen the top end of a vitamin D range, as low as 50; most are twice that high. It's typically recommended that vitamin D levels be kept in the 50-70 range. Are you supplementing?
Another issue is Hashimoto's, indicated by your elevated TPOab. Hashimoto's is "progressive" in that the antibodies continue to do their dirty work until all healthy thyroid tissue is destroyed. As the disease progresses, your thyroid will produce less and less thyroid hormones, so even if you get your levels optimal, at one point, they could decline due to progression of Hashimoto's. Your thyroid meds have to be adjusted to keep up with the decline in hormone production.
One more thing to consider is that, possibly, your levels haven't really been optimal for you. When we say they should be (mid range for FT4 and upper half to upper third for FT3), are just rules of thumb; just targets to aim for until you find the level that's best for you. The hard and fast rule, is what's best for you.
Sorry. Wrong wording. Was trying to connect everything to see if it was worth exploring the candida since it matched all remaing symptoms. I see that it can cause inflamation which in turn could spike ferritin levels. As far as the constipation goes ive tried everything from fruit to probiotics to fiber and enzymes to no avail. I have an apointment with a GI on tuesday and I just want to educate myself as best I can before the appointment.
COMMUNITY LEADER
You got it backwards; high ferritin is an indication of inflammation, not a cause. This means that if you have inflammation in your body, there's a good chance that your ferritin levels will be high. I've never heard of high levels of ferritin being linked to Candida, though I'd be last to say it can't be.
Have you been tested for other autoimmunes, including, but not limited to, MS, Lupus or RA? These diseases often cause high levels of inflammation.
While constipation is a major symptom of hypothyroidism, there are other things that can cause it, as well. These can include diet (getting enough fiber?), exercise (or lack of), etc. Have you tried taking a probiotic in the morning and/or digestive enzymes with meals? These can work wonders, because we don't always absorb/digest everything efficiently. I find that an apple a day works as good as a laxitive and is much more healthy.
Candida is a yeast bacteria and while it can cause inflammation, it's not a major source of it.
Have you been tested for other autoimmunes, including, but not limited to, MS, Lupus or RA? These diseases often cause high levels of inflammation.
While constipation is a major symptom of hypothyroidism, there are other things that can cause it, as well. These can include diet (getting enough fiber?), exercise (or lack of), etc. Have you tried taking a probiotic in the morning and/or digestive enzymes with meals? These can work wonders, because we don't always absorb/digest everything efficiently. I find that an apple a day works as good as a laxitive and is much more healthy.
Candida is a yeast bacteria and while it can cause inflammation, it's not a major source of it.
I've been doing some research and would like opinion. I too saw that high ferritin can be a cause of inflamation. I also noticed that my remaining symptoms of constipation, brain fog and anxiety mimmic symptoms of intestinal candida. Twice I have reached good levels of free T's and moved from complete to functional constipation with fogginess and anxiety remaining. Could the high ferrtin levels indicate further proof of a candida overgrowth. I should also mention that when working up to good levels last time I was tracking my body temps with merc. therm. Afternoon temps as i was working up were at 96.8-97.2. When constipation became functional and Free T levels looked good my temps went up to 97.4 and stalled. I have always been 98.6 when healthy. I have been at this for 5 years now and feel theres just something going on other than (but may be a result of) thyroid dysfunction. Am I on the right track with my thinking or is there something else that I should look for.
Thank you!!
Thank you!!
COMMUNITY LEADER
Oh, don't misunderstand; I'm not saying it doesn't happen; I was just commenting that we all react differently to most things, so it's not surprising that you got the pimples and I didn't.
Additionally, I have Pernicious Anemia, so I have to keep my levels very high.
Fortunately, I've, mostly, outgrown my acne days (LOL), so medication for that.
Additionally, I have Pernicious Anemia, so I have to keep my levels very high.
Fortunately, I've, mostly, outgrown my acne days (LOL), so medication for that.
When I took 2500 mcg sublingual B12, I got acne (little pimples) over my body and face. After I cut it down to 500 mcg I didn't have a problem.
If you use acne relief medicine it counteracts the good effects of B12.
If you use acne relief medicine it counteracts the good effects of B12.
COMMUNITY LEADER
Hmmm I've had B12 levels over the limit and didn't get any little pimples on my face. I guess it affects all of us differently.
Excess B12 pretty much goes out in the urine, for most of us it's not an issue; however, it would become one, if you had renal issues.
I agree that it wouldn't hurt to get an RT3 test, but do be aware that many doctor refuse to run them, because they don't believe in RT3 dominance.
High ferritin levels can indicate inflammation in the body.
Excess B12 pretty much goes out in the urine, for most of us it's not an issue; however, it would become one, if you had renal issues.
I agree that it wouldn't hurt to get an RT3 test, but do be aware that many doctor refuse to run them, because they don't believe in RT3 dominance.
High ferritin levels can indicate inflammation in the body.
Though not dangerous to have a high B12 levels it causes little pimples all over you. No fun. I had this happen to me. They itch like crazy. I forget the term for it.
The test result is not high, slightly over the top is ideal. Anything more, 2000 range is not.
The test result is not high, slightly over the top is ideal. Anything more, 2000 range is not.
Your symptoms don't seem to fit with those thyroid test results. So, before going any further, I would like to see you get a test for Reverse T3. I say that because of my own experience when I was taking 3 grains of Armour and started having indications of hypo symptoms again. I asked my doctor to test for Reverse T3, along with the Free T3 and Free T4. The body converts T4 to excess RT3 under certain conditions like dieting and stress, and some others. The recommended ratio is usually reported as being around 1.8 or 2.0, and I found mine to be too low.
Even though it is difficult to get a representative test when already taking a T3 containing med, we found my Free T3 to Reverse T3 ratio to be too low, due to high level of Reverse T3. I did a lot of reading about it and asked my doctor to reduce my Armour by 1/2 grain and add some T3, and then after a month I did the same again. By reducing the amount of T4 available for conversion, my RT3 went down to the lower end of its range, and now my FT3/RT3 ratio is very good and I feel great.
So I think it would be good to verify your FT3/RT3 ratio and also test for FT4 at the same time. Be sure not to take your Armour dosage before the blood draw for the test, in order to try to get a representative result. Another thing to check out is your high ferritin level. I suggest that you should also get a full iron test panel, including serum iron, TIBC, and % saturation. Since you have stopped the B12 supplementation, it would also be good to test again to find out current level.
Even though it is difficult to get a representative test when already taking a T3 containing med, we found my Free T3 to Reverse T3 ratio to be too low, due to high level of Reverse T3. I did a lot of reading about it and asked my doctor to reduce my Armour by 1/2 grain and add some T3, and then after a month I did the same again. By reducing the amount of T4 available for conversion, my RT3 went down to the lower end of its range, and now my FT3/RT3 ratio is very good and I feel great.
So I think it would be good to verify your FT3/RT3 ratio and also test for FT4 at the same time. Be sure not to take your Armour dosage before the blood draw for the test, in order to try to get a representative result. Another thing to check out is your high ferritin level. I suggest that you should also get a full iron test panel, including serum iron, TIBC, and % saturation. Since you have stopped the B12 supplementation, it would also be good to test again to find out current level.
New here and trying to figure out how to respond to a question since there is no 'reply' link after the comments. My B12 levels were 1119 because I eat alot of protein. From all I've read about B12, it's not dangerous to have high levels. Sure don't know what to say about your brain fog since your Ft3 and Ft4 numbers are so good.
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