Synthroid vs Amour

[steffie53144]

Ok here goes my story sorry if its long.  Around spring of 2011 I noticed that i was shaky alot and my mom is a nurse and so is my twin sisiter they both chalked it up to high blood pressure because iam 5'1 and weighted about 200-215lbs. So i was over weight. So i didnt think much of it because it came and went.  Then around August 2011 i started loosing weight...lots of weight the thing is i thought it that was from i was finacially struggling so eating wasnt right because paying bills were more important then food and i was walking alot more so i chalked it up to actually moving my body when before then i was a couch potato lol.  So by February of 2012 i had gone from a size 15 to 7.  I thought how great!!! Shaking was pretty bad and my eyes watered all the time.  I had my normal girly visit to my family docotor and told her my issues and she referred me to and endo doctor as my thryoid was enlarged and she did a ultrsound on it and sure enough it was enlarged. So here we go i went to see the endo and she put me on methmolze and propranlol as I have Graves Diesase/hyperthryoidism.  Seen her a few time in 2012 and meds never changed  and neither did any symtoms and seem to be lossing more went went down to size 3 by august of 2012.  We talked about radiation and that seem to be what i was going to do sometime in the begining of this year (2013).  My birthday was January 9, 2013 and the morning of the 10th my heart wouldnt stop palpating..so i went to the er.....I was in afib.  Had an aewsome cardologist her prescribed propopane...which helped alot. So we decided to had thyroidetomy due to the meds they gave me in the er i would have to wait up to a year for radiation.  Now here comes the fun stuff!! Surgery was 2/25/13 and recover was pretty easy...there was no damage to my paro glands so they are still intacked.  Scar seems to be doing great.  When i has hyper or since surgery my sleeping hasnt changed Im ALWAYS tired.  My endo put me on 100 mcg of synthroid on 3/9/13 and off i went.  About two weeks taking synthroid i develpoed this rash that looked like the measles which would come and go every two weeks for the first two months and my joint pain was awefull.  I called my endo and she said i have to give it more time to my body to get use to the meds.  Almost at the 3 month mark of my surgery my hair has started falling out in handfulls....since the hair started falling out i havent gotten anymore rashes....Um ok so i waited again...then went and seen her on my 3 month check up....she said my levels were like i still had my thyroid...so she increased my synthroid from 100 mcg to 125mcg.  I showed her a pitcure of the rashes and my hair loss. and she said she didnt know why i was lossing my hair she referred my to a demrotogist...um no i told my docotor im not going to see her because there is nothing wrong its the meds!!! She ran a bunch of tests and in the between time i started taking a boat loads of vitamins....then the results are back everything came back great! So i sked her about Amour and she said she doesnt prescribe it!  After talking to a friend i found a docotor that does prescribe it and I have a second opioion on 8/19/13.  See what happens.  I have only gained about 10lbs since the surgery which ima happy for and my nails have never looked better in my life. :)  My question to anyone is should i be getting T3? And if Amour has T1, T2, T3.T4 just like if i had my thryoid why wouldnt i want to be on this med and not just the T4?  What happens to graves diease now that i dont have a thyroid, and about anyone experiance with hairloss/re growth? Oh yea and about weight.....Im so confused about all this and I want to be well prepared when i go see this new doctor on the 19th.

Her are my last labs results from 7/2/13

TSH <0.15  [0.270-4.20 ulU/ml]
T4 Free 2.85    [0.93-1.70 ng/gl]
T3 1.46     [.80-2.00 ng/ml]
DHEA 109   [40-325 mcg/dl]
testoterone total 45   [2-45 ng/dl]
Testosterone free 3.3  [0.1-6.4 pg/ml]
Prolactin 11.97  [4.79-23.30 ng/ml]
Hemoglobin 14.5   [12.0-16.0 g/dl]
Red blood cell clount 4.95  [4.20-5.40 M/ul]
Iron  55   [37-145ug/dl]

Sorry if this is long.... Any insight would be great!

Get nex labs drawn end of the month.  

[debinda]

I am having a thyroidectomy on Friday.  They are not certain I have cancer, but I have 4 or 5 measurable nodules plus one large one.  I opted to have it taken out rather than have needle biopsies every 6 months which are not always accurate.

My main concern is them getting my thyroid medication right.  I am in 3rd stage kidney disease, so any assault on my kidneys can throw me into kidney failure.  The oncologist/surgeon said they wait one week for the biopsy and then start you on thyroid medication.  I'm sure he will use synthetic because it seems like all the doctors do.  Should I take a chance on that, or insist on Armour immediately.  I've suspected I had thyroid problems for the last 4 years and it runs in my family, but it wasn't until I changed PCPs that they felt how large one side of my thyroid was.  Everyone always tells me my TSH level is normal.  This is unnerving since I've read over and over again that TSH is a bogus number to go by.  Any insight will help.  I'm getting more nervous by the minute.

[Barb135]

Yes, hair will typically grow back, once you are on the right thyroid medication.  I doubt seriously that synthroid is the cause of your hair loss.  I think your doctor started you out on way too high a dosage. It's always better to start out low and increase as the body gets used to having the hormones.

Unfortunately, you doctor tested Total T3, so you don't know if you need additional T3 or not.

[steffie53144]

My biggest concern is my hair....I have lot ALOT of hair. I have been reading that adding some T3 will help. But in my heart of hearts I know its the synthroid.  I realize by hypo now lossing my hair is a symtom...but I have also read that synthroid can cause it too.  When i was hyperthryoid with graves a symtoms is hair loss and I didnt lose any hair. Do it grow back once on teh right meds?

[Carla75]

Armour and other dessicated thyroid medicines are especially beneficial to those of us who do not convert T4 into T3.  The whole goal of thyroid meds is to make that conversion.  I was a poor converter so switched from Levothyroxine to NP Thyroid originally and am now on Armour instead.  If you're a poor converter it might make a big difference.  I switched in Nov 2012 and at this point have lost 18lbs by changing nothing in my life exercise or food wise.  I also don't have brain fog, am not tired all the time and don't have a lot of the symptoms I did with Levothyroixine.  It was a trial and error process for me, which included trying Levothyroxine, Np Thyroid, Tirosint and now Armour.  Different strokes for different folks, I like to say.  Just be informed and do your research so you are prepared when you go in there.  Like Barb said, you definitely need your T3 & T4 Free levels checked when on Dessicated thyroid meds.

[Barb135]

Most people are going to take their thyroid med first thing in the morning, and probably wouldn't eat the veggies and/or walnuts (have to research that) until later in the day. I wonder how many walnuts you'd have to eat to get that effect.

The health benefits of things like broccoli, cauliflower, walnuts, etc are much greater than the harm they might do, when eaten in moderation and separated from the medication, by a few hours. I doubt that moderate amounts of  raw broccoli and cauliflower would have too much of an adverse effect.

If we stop eating everything they tell us might harm us, we'd starve to death. The only thing I specifically avoid is soy.

[dgmootry]

Barb, I looked up foods to avoid with hypothyroid, and it says walnuts are thought to affect how a synthetic hormone like levothyroxine, is absorbed into the body. kind of curious if it would effect Armour the same way since its not synthetic. It says Eating walnuts at the same time you are taking these hormones can prolong symptoms of hypo, such as tiredness, anxiety aching muscles joint pain and general weakness. they mentioned flour or meal make from cottonseed found in certain supplements and breads, should avoid because of the adverse effect on synthetic hormones like levothyroxine. Good to know I can eat brocolli and Cauliflower if I cook them, I just won't over due it.

[Barb135]

Goitrogens do not have to be avoided at all, if they are cooked.

Never heard of walnuts causing an issue; what's the deal with that?

Some vitamins and minerals, particularly, calcium should not be taken within 4 hours of thyroid med.

[dgmootry]

Stufftie, I also want to mention, soy is a food you want to stay away from, there are also other foods like broccoli and cauliflower that you want to eat in moderation, I know when I've eaten these too much I really feel the difference, Walnuts is another one, if you do eat them make sure there time away from your meds, also space your vitamins especially calcium, my doctor didn't  tell me any of this, I am just so happy I found this forum, i've learned so much. debbie

[dgmootry]

Stufftie, when I first became hypo due to RAI my doc put me on Levothyroxin she started me off on 100 which was horrible, to this day I don't know if it was because she started me off on such a high dose and I reacted, then I requested levoxyl I believe she dropped me down to 75 which was still too high or I was having a reaction, then when I started Armour 30mg which felt good right off, but I started feeling hypo so after 6 weeks she increased it to 45 still felt I was a bit hypo after 6 weeks she increased it to 521/2 so all in all this slow increase was really good, I don't know what she was thinking when she started me off so high, slow is the game, good luck debbie also remember try splitting them up and see if that works for you,

[Stufftie]

Just for comparison 1 grain of Armour (60 MG) has 9 MCG of liothyronine (T3) T4 is 38 MCG

[Stufftie]

I am one that didn't tolerate synthetic very well.  Armour has done wonders for me.  I do split up the dose as dgmootry does.  I also crush it with my teeth before I swallow it.
On Armour your Free T3 to be in the higher part of the range and Free T4 to be mid-higher. Pay no attention to the TSH and find a doctor that doesn't either.  Even if your doctor says your tests are normal find your target range for the Free T's.  
I started with 30 mg and as I kept increasing she prescribed higher doses.  So I keep extra Armour around.  Two reasons:  In case the pharmacy cannot fill it for any reason and if I need to increase (only by 30 mg) after a blood test.  My doctor will say my levels are fine but I see they need to go up a little.  I am lucky that she trusts me and just wants to know what I am doing.  
Even though I feel amazing on Armour everything with being hypo takes time. Start slow, don't increase to fast and expect some down time.  When I switched from levothyroxine to Armour it took 5 months to feel great.  I saw improvements and sometimes old symptoms surfaced but I bounced back quicker.
If other symptoms appear try not to fall in the "it's all my thyroid".  

You right to supplement good job! I didn't figure that out until way later. :)

[Barb135]

It's not necessary to be on a T4/T3 combo, such as Armour or other desiccated hormones.  Many people do just fine on synthethics (I'm one).

Did your doctor start you, directly, on the 100 mcg or did you work up?  If that was your first dose, shame on your doctor.  It's never a good idea to start on that high dose.  It's always best to start at a much lower dose, in order to avoid a reaction and work up as you tolerate the med.

The rash you had could well have been a reaction to the binders/fillers or dye in the med.  Hair loss is a symptom of hypothyroidism, indicating that your levels are not optimal.  It's also not unusual for symptoms to worsen or new ones to appear, once starting a new med/dosage.

As far as the Armour - yes, it has all the hormones; however, it comes from pigs and pigs produce much more T3 than humans do, so it's not just like if you had your own thyroid. Many of us don't need/can't tolerate that high level of T3; others do well only on desiccated hormones. We are all individual and react differently to meds. What's good for one, may not be best for another.  

You need to have both FT3 and FT4 tested every time you get blood work.  Plain T3 is total T3 and is considered obsolete and of little value.  If you don't specify "Free" for each T3 and T4, you will get total.

[steffie53144]

Ok im going to look into Amour. Do you happen to know the process of switching from synthroid to amour? Like do i have to wait to get the synthroid out of my system first before i start the amour?

[dgmootry]

hey, i'm on Armour, and it seems to work well for me, what I had to do to feel good and not hyper is to divide my meds up during the day, I take them 7am and around 3pm otherwise I get to much t3 and feel to hyper, and then around 5 I'd be exhausted. I don't feel perfect,, but i do feel alot better, my hair is really doing good and my nails are growing, I still retain some water, I just had a increase in my meds so just hoping maybe the water retention will go away as the extra meds get absorbed or whatever they do, good luck deb