Aa
TPO keeps on raising
Dear all,
I have done a blood test on the 29th of November, and the results were: TPO 494.3 mIU/mL (normal max 34); TSH 4.05 mikro IU/mL (normal max 4.20); T3 1.68 nmol/L (normal 1.3 - 3.1); T4 118.3 nmol/L (normal 66 - 181).
Today I have done a TPO test again, and it was 730 (normal max is still 34, i.e. 21 times less than the one I have).
In addition I have done a calcitonin test, and the result is 1.0 (normal at most 11.8).
I have done some liver tests as well, i.e. GOT and GPT (I guess the same as ALT and AST): GOT is 41.05 U/L (normal max 37); GPT is 57.49 U/L (normal max 42).
So, looking at the TPO results I have to say that I am quite worried. And even worse, I have no idea what can be the cause of this significant increase.
Please, could you let me know if you have any opinion on what can be a cause to these blood test results, or some advice for further tests.
This evening I am going to test whether my body has enough of iodine. I will perform the following very simple test: make three iodine lines on your biceps; check tomorrow morning how many of them are visible; if none of them is visible, your body needs more iodine. Please let me know if you are aware of some other tests as well.
Thank you.
With kind regards,
I have done a blood test on the 29th of November, and the results were: TPO 494.3 mIU/mL (normal max 34); TSH 4.05 mikro IU/mL (normal max 4.20); T3 1.68 nmol/L (normal 1.3 - 3.1); T4 118.3 nmol/L (normal 66 - 181).
Today I have done a TPO test again, and it was 730 (normal max is still 34, i.e. 21 times less than the one I have).
In addition I have done a calcitonin test, and the result is 1.0 (normal at most 11.8).
I have done some liver tests as well, i.e. GOT and GPT (I guess the same as ALT and AST): GOT is 41.05 U/L (normal max 37); GPT is 57.49 U/L (normal max 42).
So, looking at the TPO results I have to say that I am quite worried. And even worse, I have no idea what can be the cause of this significant increase.
Please, could you let me know if you have any opinion on what can be a cause to these blood test results, or some advice for further tests.
This evening I am going to test whether my body has enough of iodine. I will perform the following very simple test: make three iodine lines on your biceps; check tomorrow morning how many of them are visible; if none of them is visible, your body needs more iodine. Please let me know if you are aware of some other tests as well.
Thank you.
With kind regards,
COMMUNITY LEADER
Well, your TgAb are right up there, aren't they? Why am I not surprised... lol
Well, I hate to be a constant naysayer, but neither do I like to give people false hope that they can cure (or get rid of) something (antibodies) they can't.
By all means, try the selenium. As I told you, I've been taking it for years and my antibody count only lowered when my thyroid was completely burned out and not longer had healthy tissue to be destroyed, but the good news is that selenium has helped with the conversion of FT4 to the usable FT3, so it hasn't been a total flop..
As for clearing the liver with whey, again, I hate to be the naysayer, but I've been drinking whey protein for years, in the eternal effort to lose the weight that my wonderful hypo he!! thought I needed and it not only didn't help get rid of the weight, it did nothing for my digestive tract either - but you go ahead; maybe you'll have better luck than I did.
Our livers are designed to detox/"clear" themselves, so nothing should be necessary there.
I'd love for you to keep me up to date on how things are going for you... especially if you manage to lower your antibody counts, significantly, and the circumstances surrounding that. Just remember, lowering your count of 2138 by 15% - 20% is still going to leave you with a LOT of antibodies to deal with. LOL
Good luck and don't be a stranger.
Well, I hate to be a constant naysayer, but neither do I like to give people false hope that they can cure (or get rid of) something (antibodies) they can't.
By all means, try the selenium. As I told you, I've been taking it for years and my antibody count only lowered when my thyroid was completely burned out and not longer had healthy tissue to be destroyed, but the good news is that selenium has helped with the conversion of FT4 to the usable FT3, so it hasn't been a total flop..
As for clearing the liver with whey, again, I hate to be the naysayer, but I've been drinking whey protein for years, in the eternal effort to lose the weight that my wonderful hypo he!! thought I needed and it not only didn't help get rid of the weight, it did nothing for my digestive tract either - but you go ahead; maybe you'll have better luck than I did.
Our livers are designed to detox/"clear" themselves, so nothing should be necessary there.
I'd love for you to keep me up to date on how things are going for you... especially if you manage to lower your antibody counts, significantly, and the circumstances surrounding that. Just remember, lowering your count of 2138 by 15% - 20% is still going to leave you with a LOT of antibodies to deal with. LOL
Good luck and don't be a stranger.
I got my anti-TG results. They are 2138, while the normal max is 40, LOL. (better to laugh than to cry)
The most important thing I have learned from you is that it is something I am not going to get rid off easily, and that oxidative stress might be a cause.
In addition to taking more selenium, some people have told me that I should consider of "clearing" my liver and digestive tract. By clearing I mean consuming certain food/drinks, e.g. drinking whey to clean the digestive tract).
If you like, I can keep you up to date as sharing my experience might help to you as well, especially if I manage to lower anti-TPO and anti-TG significantly.
Once again thanks to Red_Star and you for the discussion and the advices!
Best,
The most important thing I have learned from you is that it is something I am not going to get rid off easily, and that oxidative stress might be a cause.
In addition to taking more selenium, some people have told me that I should consider of "clearing" my liver and digestive tract. By clearing I mean consuming certain food/drinks, e.g. drinking whey to clean the digestive tract).
If you like, I can keep you up to date as sharing my experience might help to you as well, especially if I manage to lower anti-TPO and anti-TG significantly.
Once again thanks to Red_Star and you for the discussion and the advices!
Best,
Just to add my antibodies dropped from 550 to 470 (80 IU) so selenium (brazil nuts) dropped my antibodies in 6 months by around 15%.
There is no negative outcomes to improving oxidative stress. I'd be very happy to take that 40% but I want 100% LOL.
COMMUNITY LEADER
Okay, so you lower the antibody count by 40%, you still have the majority of them left, doing their damage on your thyroid.
The good part is that selenium has been shown to help in the conversion of the storage hormone FT4 to the usable FT3.
The good part is that selenium has been shown to help in the conversion of the storage hormone FT4 to the usable FT3.
COMMUNITY LEADER
Typically, if the lab doesn't specify "Free" on the lab report, the T3 is Total, but your result looks like what we might see for a Free result, so if you can contact the lab and find out for sure, that would be good.
The reason I asked if it was suspected that you had thyroid cancer is because that's why calcitonin is tested. Did your doctor explain why s/he ordered that test? If the reference range was < 11.8 and your result was 1.0, you're well under the positive limit and have nothing to worry about.
It's possible the "dark spots" on your thyroid were nodules, and your doctor is right - they are very common with Hashimoto's and as long as their characteristics are not abnormal, there's nothing to worry about.
There is nothing that's been proven to lower antibodies to within normal/negative limits. As noted in the discussion above regarding selenium, you may be able to drop them by a small percentage, but you still leave the larger percentage to do the damage to your thyroid.
You're lucky you don't have symptoms, but with Hashimoto's, it's most likely only a matter of time.
You should ask your doctor to order Free T3 and Free T3, along with TSH to get a better picture of what's really going on.
The reason I asked if it was suspected that you had thyroid cancer is because that's why calcitonin is tested. Did your doctor explain why s/he ordered that test? If the reference range was < 11.8 and your result was 1.0, you're well under the positive limit and have nothing to worry about.
It's possible the "dark spots" on your thyroid were nodules, and your doctor is right - they are very common with Hashimoto's and as long as their characteristics are not abnormal, there's nothing to worry about.
There is nothing that's been proven to lower antibodies to within normal/negative limits. As noted in the discussion above regarding selenium, you may be able to drop them by a small percentage, but you still leave the larger percentage to do the damage to your thyroid.
You're lucky you don't have symptoms, but with Hashimoto's, it's most likely only a matter of time.
You should ask your doctor to order Free T3 and Free T3, along with TSH to get a better picture of what's really going on.
It seems like a great advice. Thanks! I could not find a way to check whether I have/had an (increased) oxydative stress, but I have started taking zeolite which should reduce such kind of stress. I think I am eating healthy, but I am definitely going to pay even more attention about that and make sure I have a proper intake of vitamins A, C and E. :)
Thanks for your reply. I think it helps me to understand better what is going on.
Regarding free vs total T3/T4, I have asked the lab where I took the test, but they did not reply yet. In one lab I saw that they have separately T3 and free T3, so I suspect that in my case both of them are total.
> Were you suspected of having thyroid cancer?
No, but should I be worried about that? :| I have done an ultrasound scan of my thyroid. I had a few darker small spots, but the doctor said it is quite frequent.
> Did the reference range for the calcitonin read < 11.8?
You are right. That is exactly what is written. I have done anti-TG as well, but still did not get the results.
Regarding the symptoms, fortunately, I have none.
I wanted to do ROS, or some related, test but I could not find a lab doing it. I would like to figure out whether there is something I can do to lower the TPO concentration, possible down to the normal level.
Regarding free vs total T3/T4, I have asked the lab where I took the test, but they did not reply yet. In one lab I saw that they have separately T3 and free T3, so I suspect that in my case both of them are total.
> Were you suspected of having thyroid cancer?
No, but should I be worried about that? :| I have done an ultrasound scan of my thyroid. I had a few darker small spots, but the doctor said it is quite frequent.
> Did the reference range for the calcitonin read < 11.8?
You are right. That is exactly what is written. I have done anti-TG as well, but still did not get the results.
Regarding the symptoms, fortunately, I have none.
I wanted to do ROS, or some related, test but I could not find a lab doing it. I would like to figure out whether there is something I can do to lower the TPO concentration, possible down to the normal level.
My mother Hashimoto's thyroiditis is in remission due to all her lifestyle changes which reduced oxidative stress drastically. :)
COMMUNITY LEADER
As Red_Star mentioned, your high TPOab indicates that you have Hashimoto's Thyroiditis, which is an autoimmune thyroid disease, in which the body sees the thyroid as foreign and produces antibodies to destroy it. The destruction, typically, takes place over a period of time and gradually, the thyroid produces less and less of the necessary thyroid hormones, as healthy thyroid tissue is destroyed. Your thyroid controls several important bodily functions.
While studies have shown that selenium may reduce thyroid antibodies, just suppose that you reduce them by 20%, you still have the remaining 80% doing their destruction, so you're really not gaining a lot there. I've taken selenium for years and my TPOab only declined after the destruction of my thyroid was complete and there was nothing left for the antibodies to destroy. Selenium has been shown, however, to help in the conversion of the storage hormone Free T4 to the usable Free T3.
You mentioned doing the iodine test and if the iodine disappears, that indicates one is low on iodine... that's correct, but iodine is contraindicated for those of us with Hashimoto's as it can make the autoimmune attack worse.
The raw number of TPOab is not important, as it can fluctuate. What matters is that you have Hashimoto's and once you have it, you have it for life.
Are the T3 and T4 tests you had done, Free T3 and Free T4 or are they Total T3 and Total T4? They aren't the same tests. The T3 appears to be Free T3, but the T4 appears to be Total T4. Please check your lab report to see if it specifies. Your T3 is very low in the range at only 21% of its range and your T4 is only at 45% of its range. Both indicate hypothyroidism. Symptoms of hypothyroidism include, but aren't limited to unexplained weight gain/inability to lose, fatigue, constipation, cold intolerance, hair loss, puffiness in the face especially under the eyes, swelling (edema) of the hands and feet, low heart rate, brain fog/memory issues, depression and many others.
Were you suspected of having thyroid cancer? Did the reference range for the calcitonin read < 11.8?
Have you had a thyroid ultrasound to determine whether or not you have nodules and/or swelling/inflammation (goiter), which are quite common with Hashimoto's?
While studies have shown that selenium may reduce thyroid antibodies, just suppose that you reduce them by 20%, you still have the remaining 80% doing their destruction, so you're really not gaining a lot there. I've taken selenium for years and my TPOab only declined after the destruction of my thyroid was complete and there was nothing left for the antibodies to destroy. Selenium has been shown, however, to help in the conversion of the storage hormone Free T4 to the usable Free T3.
You mentioned doing the iodine test and if the iodine disappears, that indicates one is low on iodine... that's correct, but iodine is contraindicated for those of us with Hashimoto's as it can make the autoimmune attack worse.
The raw number of TPOab is not important, as it can fluctuate. What matters is that you have Hashimoto's and once you have it, you have it for life.
Are the T3 and T4 tests you had done, Free T3 and Free T4 or are they Total T3 and Total T4? They aren't the same tests. The T3 appears to be Free T3, but the T4 appears to be Total T4. Please check your lab report to see if it specifies. Your T3 is very low in the range at only 21% of its range and your T4 is only at 45% of its range. Both indicate hypothyroidism. Symptoms of hypothyroidism include, but aren't limited to unexplained weight gain/inability to lose, fatigue, constipation, cold intolerance, hair loss, puffiness in the face especially under the eyes, swelling (edema) of the hands and feet, low heart rate, brain fog/memory issues, depression and many others.
Were you suspected of having thyroid cancer? Did the reference range for the calcitonin read < 11.8?
Have you had a thyroid ultrasound to determine whether or not you have nodules and/or swelling/inflammation (goiter), which are quite common with Hashimoto's?
I found something else interesting as well...
"The thyroid gland is one of the human tissues with the highest selenium content. Selenoproteins involved in cellular antioxidative defense systems and redox control including the glutathione peroxidase and the thioredoxin reductase family, are involved in protection of the thyroid gland from excess hydrogen peroxide and reactive oxygen species produced by the follicles for biosynthesis of thyroid hormones." - Medscape - Hashimoto's Thyroiditis in Patients With Normal Thyroid-stimulating Hormone Levels.
"The thyroid gland is one of the human tissues with the highest selenium content. Selenoproteins involved in cellular antioxidative defense systems and redox control including the glutathione peroxidase and the thioredoxin reductase family, are involved in protection of the thyroid gland from excess hydrogen peroxide and reactive oxygen species produced by the follicles for biosynthesis of thyroid hormones." - Medscape - Hashimoto's Thyroiditis in Patients With Normal Thyroid-stimulating Hormone Levels.
I found this info from Life Technologies Oxidative Stress Detection...
"Life Technologies provides a variety of Molecular Probes® fluorescent tools to track different parameters in oxidative stress:
Generalized oxidative stress
Lipid peroxidation
Selective ROS detection
Fluorescent protein–based redox sensors
Glutathione levels
These tools use platforms such as fluorescence microscopy, flow cytometry, or microplate analysis."
I also found an article from Life Extension - What are The Secrets of Centenarians?...
"4. Centenarians Have Less Oxidative Stress
Catalase and glutathione protect our cells against aging, and our levels tend to decline with age.
In a Spanish study, centenarians had higher serum catalase levels than people in their 30’s. Their glutathione levels were similar to those of young adults.9
Centenarians also have lower markers of oxidative stress, which include malondialdehyde (MDA), thiobarbituric acid (TBARS), and lipid hydroperoxides (LPO).10
Nutrients that boost catalase or glutathione levels include bitter melon11 and lipoic acid,12 respectively. So you may consider working them into your regimen."
"Life Technologies provides a variety of Molecular Probes® fluorescent tools to track different parameters in oxidative stress:
Generalized oxidative stress
Lipid peroxidation
Selective ROS detection
Fluorescent protein–based redox sensors
Glutathione levels
These tools use platforms such as fluorescence microscopy, flow cytometry, or microplate analysis."
I also found an article from Life Extension - What are The Secrets of Centenarians?...
"4. Centenarians Have Less Oxidative Stress
Catalase and glutathione protect our cells against aging, and our levels tend to decline with age.
In a Spanish study, centenarians had higher serum catalase levels than people in their 30’s. Their glutathione levels were similar to those of young adults.9
Centenarians also have lower markers of oxidative stress, which include malondialdehyde (MDA), thiobarbituric acid (TBARS), and lipid hydroperoxides (LPO).10
Nutrients that boost catalase or glutathione levels include bitter melon11 and lipoic acid,12 respectively. So you may consider working them into your regimen."
Thanks a lot for your reply! :)
Please, could you tell me whether you have a suggestion on how to test whether I have (or had in the recent past) an oxidative stress.
Best,
Please, could you tell me whether you have a suggestion on how to test whether I have (or had in the recent past) an oxidative stress.
Best,
Your labs indicate Hashimoto's thyroiditis. My liver enzymes were elevated for three years but I didn't know why at the time. Both AST and ALT dropped when I started thyroxine.
I found out that oxidative stress does a number on TPOAb. My TPOAb rose from 470 to 1900 during my year of hyperthyroidism. My stomach acid depleted and my antioxidant levels were low. Antioxidants fight free radicals (reactive oxygen species).
Medscape - Selenium and the Thyroid Gland...
"Most authors attribute the effect of supplementation on the immune system to the regulation of the production of reactive oxygen species and their metabolites. In patients with Hashimoto's disease and in pregnant women with anti-TPO antibodies, selenium supplementation decreases anti-thyroid antibody levels and improves the ultrasound structure of the thyroid gland."
An excerpt from the article "What thyroid patients should know about Oxidative Stress"...
"Some Causes of oxidative stress
There are quite a few situations mentioned in articles and studies which can cause your body to be overly stressed from the results of oxidation and all the reactive oxygen species. They include, but are not limited to:
excess endurance exercising
excess weight lifting
lack of key antioxidant nutrients like Vitamin C, Vitamin E, Selenium, Magnesium and other minerals
excess radiation or sunlight
smoking (huge cause of oxidative stress)
excessive drinking or drug use
over-exposure to toxins in our air, water and foods like pesticides, chemicals, heavy metals and more
prescription medications
processed foods with all their artificial dyes, additives or flavorings
excess physical trauma
Graves disease aka hyperthyroidism
excess copper levels from the MTHFR defect"
I found out that oxidative stress does a number on TPOAb. My TPOAb rose from 470 to 1900 during my year of hyperthyroidism. My stomach acid depleted and my antioxidant levels were low. Antioxidants fight free radicals (reactive oxygen species).
Medscape - Selenium and the Thyroid Gland...
"Most authors attribute the effect of supplementation on the immune system to the regulation of the production of reactive oxygen species and their metabolites. In patients with Hashimoto's disease and in pregnant women with anti-TPO antibodies, selenium supplementation decreases anti-thyroid antibody levels and improves the ultrasound structure of the thyroid gland."
An excerpt from the article "What thyroid patients should know about Oxidative Stress"...
"Some Causes of oxidative stress
There are quite a few situations mentioned in articles and studies which can cause your body to be overly stressed from the results of oxidation and all the reactive oxygen species. They include, but are not limited to:
excess endurance exercising
excess weight lifting
lack of key antioxidant nutrients like Vitamin C, Vitamin E, Selenium, Magnesium and other minerals
excess radiation or sunlight
smoking (huge cause of oxidative stress)
excessive drinking or drug use
over-exposure to toxins in our air, water and foods like pesticides, chemicals, heavy metals and more
prescription medications
processed foods with all their artificial dyes, additives or flavorings
excess physical trauma
Graves disease aka hyperthyroidism
excess copper levels from the MTHFR defect"
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Not sure why you say there isn't any proof barb but there is a 2002 study in the Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism which showed a 40% reduction in antibody levels after selenium supplementation with 9 of 36 (25%) patients completely normalizing their antibody levels.
That isn't to say everyone is going to be TPOAb negative just using selenium but it does work alone for some people. I only noted an 80 IU drop in TPOAb eating brazil nuts but I did have other oxidative stresses in my life as well.
Here is some info from a recent article Selenium supplementation in thyroid associated ophthalmopathy: an update. Int J Ophthalmol. 2014 Apr 18;7(2):365-75....
"The therapeutic effect of selenium (Se) has already been proven in thyroid disease and thyroid associated ophthalmopathy (TAO).
The regulation and metabolism of thyroid hormones require a steady supply of Se and recent studies have revealed several possible mechanisms by which Se improves the severity of thyroid disease and TAO.
These mechanisms include
1) inhibitory effect of HLA-DR molecule expression on thyrocytes;
2) profound reductions of thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH) receptor antibodies (TSHR-Ab) and TPO antibodies (TPO-Ab);
3) prevention of dysregulation of cell-mediated immunity and B cell function;
4) neutralising reactive oxygen species (ROS) and inhibition of redox control processes required for the activation, differentiation and action of lymphocytes, macrophages, neutrophils, natural killer cells involved in both acute and chronic orbital inflammation in TAO;
5) inhibition of expression of pro-inflammatory cytokines and 6) inhibition of prostaglandin and leukotriene synthesis.
An increased oxidative stress has been observed in both acute and chronic phases of thyroid disease with raised tissue concentrations of ROS."