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TSH too high, testosterone low-average doctor does NOTHING??
Hello, I'm a 19 year old man and I'm worried about my overall health. The main problem for me is definitly my mental health, but I've suspected a hormonal problem for a long time now. The reason I suspect my testosterone to be low was mainly because I don't make progress in the gym and I'm insecure about my wide hips, skinny wrists and small ribcage. I'm tall and thin and I hate my body proportions... My sister had anorexia so I've been thinking that it might just be a mental problem, but I'm not sure.. I really feel like the main reason I feel bad about things is just because I feel moody, unmotivated and sometime "bipolar/schizophrenic" in the first place. I finally got my hopes up after reading about hypothyroidism and hypogonadism.. not because I like being ill or something, it's more that it would explain my lack of joy in life (I feel like my life is emty even though it's alright and it's been on and off ever since puberty). Long story short I measured my testosterone and it came back (3 times all in the morning) at 16/17 nmol/l wich is in range. My doctor says it's fine and my endocrinologist (a young medical student who's nothing even done learning yet) says it's fine too. So that's the whole story for testosterone. Even though everything on the internet tells me my level is close to that of a 75 year old man (look it up I'm not lieing) it's fine. He did mention hypothyroidism though and I really though it might be that that is the problem so I had it tested too. My TSH came back at 4.7 first when my normal doctor measured it and half a year later when my endocrinologist measured it it came back at 6.8 wich is pretty damn high. The weird thing is that my fT4 is in range and even on the upper limit (it's 17 on a range from 12 to 21) So my doctor tested me for an auto-immune disease. It turns out that I don't have the anti-bodies he was looking for so that's the whole story. I said that's all he could do for me and now I'm stuck with a lot of question marks and a frustrated feeling of not knowing if I should trust him or if I should trust all the other people online who say my levels aren't optimal.. He also didn't measure my fT3 wich is strange I think.. But I've just had enough of all the testing and waiting wich is why I want to know other's opinion first before complaining to my doctor again. I hope you guys can help me out.. I really feel like my depression, anxiety, forgetfullness, lack of motivation is caused by something inside my body especially because I do have friends and a full life I should be able to enjoy. I'm desperate.
I should of added there is also seronegative Hashimoto's thyroiditis. A FNA (fine needle aspiration) biopsy shows the cellular changes seen with Hashimoto's thyroiditis.
Excerpt from Nobel Medicus - Achalasia and thyroid disease: common etilogoy or only coincidence...
"Histopathologically proven autoantibody negative Hashimoto’s thyroiditis has been reported. It has been proposed that local antibody production by lymphocytes in the thyroid gland causes the thyroiditis without evidence of systemic immune response. Thus, Hashimoto’s thyroiditis can exist as an organ restricted autoimmune disorder.
In a group of 109 patients with Hashimoto’s thyroiditis the anti-TG antibodies were not detected in 14.67% and anti-TPO in 21.1% of patients. Both antibodies were negative in 1.83% of the patients."
"Our case was a cytologically proven lymphocytic thyroiditis as it displayed extensive lymphocytes with accompanying Hurthle cells which is specific to autoimmune thyroiditis."
Excerpt from Nobel Medicus - Achalasia and thyroid disease: common etilogoy or only coincidence...
"Histopathologically proven autoantibody negative Hashimoto’s thyroiditis has been reported. It has been proposed that local antibody production by lymphocytes in the thyroid gland causes the thyroiditis without evidence of systemic immune response. Thus, Hashimoto’s thyroiditis can exist as an organ restricted autoimmune disorder.
In a group of 109 patients with Hashimoto’s thyroiditis the anti-TG antibodies were not detected in 14.67% and anti-TPO in 21.1% of patients. Both antibodies were negative in 1.83% of the patients."
"Our case was a cytologically proven lymphocytic thyroiditis as it displayed extensive lymphocytes with accompanying Hurthle cells which is specific to autoimmune thyroiditis."
I don't believe your symptoms are all in your head, Leon. The one thing that baffles me about doctors is their insistence that people fake how they're feeling. Yes, I guess there are people out there who enjoy the attention and might be true hypochondriacs, but I still think there is a root cause for hypochondria too. In my case it is hypothyroidism of the Hashimoto variety. I'm no doctor, but your symptoms sure sound familiar and even though the TSH is not the end-all be-all of diagnosis, yours is high enough for me. I would feel miserable at that level.
The hardest part of getting adequate treatment is finding a doctor who reads this forum, lol. You do need to get the lab tests done for thyroid listed above by the other people who posted. But getting the right tests ordered can sometimes be an epic struggle if the doctor takes offense. I wish you good luck with your new doctor; I'm on my sixteenth MD now. (But I'm old as dirt and have been hypo for 22 years, longer than you've been alive. Now I'm really depressed, lol.)
Just be careful of some of the alternative docs out there, too. I saw one recently who was more interested in selling me supplements and didn't have a clue what to do with the extensive blood tests she ordered. After spending way over a grand on her out of pocket, I was back searching for another MD. I think I've found a good one now, but it's early days in our 'relationship'. If something sounds too good to be true, it often is.
Keep posting your experiences and definitely get those lab tests done and post your results here with reference ranges. I'm not good at interpreting test results, but I can definitely tell you you're not alone with this. You've come to the right place.
The hardest part of getting adequate treatment is finding a doctor who reads this forum, lol. You do need to get the lab tests done for thyroid listed above by the other people who posted. But getting the right tests ordered can sometimes be an epic struggle if the doctor takes offense. I wish you good luck with your new doctor; I'm on my sixteenth MD now. (But I'm old as dirt and have been hypo for 22 years, longer than you've been alive. Now I'm really depressed, lol.)
Just be careful of some of the alternative docs out there, too. I saw one recently who was more interested in selling me supplements and didn't have a clue what to do with the extensive blood tests she ordered. After spending way over a grand on her out of pocket, I was back searching for another MD. I think I've found a good one now, but it's early days in our 'relationship'. If something sounds too good to be true, it often is.
Keep posting your experiences and definitely get those lab tests done and post your results here with reference ranges. I'm not good at interpreting test results, but I can definitely tell you you're not alone with this. You've come to the right place.
I really feel like the doctors don't want to help me. Because they don't know what's going on with me they assume I'm making things up or something. I still have symptoms and a high TSH/low-average testosterone level so I'm sure it's not just "in the head". The way I'm treated makes me not wanting to go to the doctor again.. also my endocrinologist (the guy who's maybe 4 years older than me and hasn't even graduated from college yet) told me he didn't want to continue looking for things, because his conclusion by seeing that I have no anti-bodies and my testosterone isn't out of the range is that I'm perfectly healthy and he can't help me. Well.. I'm going to a natural doctor soon and he's also connected to a hospital so he's not a quack or anything, and according to a co-working of my mom he's specialised in thyroid function so maybe he can help me out and is willing to test more than just total T, TSH and fT4. Thanks for your suppord people and I might take all your information printed to the doctor so at least I'll have some backup this time.
I would start by insisting on the Free T3 and Free T4 tests. Then please post your results (with ranges). Hypothyroidism is a root cause of many, many problems, most of which will self-correct once thyroid levels are balanced. You sound hypothyroid to me, and medicine will help you greatly with the following: depression, anxiety, forgetfullness, lack of motivation
In addition, get tested for vitamin D, B12, and ferritin while you are at it. Deficiencies in any of these things can compound the problems you are having.
Bowel problems can vary with hypothyroidism. Some people experience constipation, but others do not. Diarrhea is not just a hyperthyroid symptom. You could very well have IBS or other digestive issues in conjunction with hypothyroidism.
I would retest other hormones like testosterone after you get these other things sorted.
And yes, it is always a good idea to seek out a therapist you can work with and talk things through, no matter where your thyroid (or other) levels stand. We can't always solve everything on our own. So good on you for looking into finding a psychologist.
In addition, get tested for vitamin D, B12, and ferritin while you are at it. Deficiencies in any of these things can compound the problems you are having.
Bowel problems can vary with hypothyroidism. Some people experience constipation, but others do not. Diarrhea is not just a hyperthyroid symptom. You could very well have IBS or other digestive issues in conjunction with hypothyroidism.
I would retest other hormones like testosterone after you get these other things sorted.
And yes, it is always a good idea to seek out a therapist you can work with and talk things through, no matter where your thyroid (or other) levels stand. We can't always solve everything on our own. So good on you for looking into finding a psychologist.
Common listed causes of memory loss are medications; alcohol, tobacco, or drug use; sleep deprivation; depression and stress; nutritional deficiency including proteins, fats, vitamin B1, vitamin B12; head injury; stroke; dementia; hypothyroidism, hyperthyroidism; infections such as HIV, tuberculosis, and syphilis.
I have both hyperthyroid and hypothyroid symptoms due to Hashimoto's thyroiditis. I have had both types of Hashitoxicosis. I answered this on another question...
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Thyroid-Disorders/Hashimotos-questions/show/1951708
There is an article: "The Epic Saturated Fat Experiment - The Effects of 15 days of 100 Grams of Saturated Fat Per Day on Cholesterol Levels in a healthy adult male." which you might want to check out. Of course he is a healthy male but I thought I would mention it due to the amazing increase in testosterone! 70% increase in 15 DAYS!
I have both hyperthyroid and hypothyroid symptoms due to Hashimoto's thyroiditis. I have had both types of Hashitoxicosis. I answered this on another question...
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Thyroid-Disorders/Hashimotos-questions/show/1951708
There is an article: "The Epic Saturated Fat Experiment - The Effects of 15 days of 100 Grams of Saturated Fat Per Day on Cholesterol Levels in a healthy adult male." which you might want to check out. Of course he is a healthy male but I thought I would mention it due to the amazing increase in testosterone! 70% increase in 15 DAYS!
Thanks for posting. I also suspected I might have a lack of dopamine.. The problem with this thing is that I don't know what the root cause of my problems is. I mean.. Hypothyroidism causes low testosterone, high estrogen causes low testosterone, high cortisol causes high TSH and low testosterone, hypothyroidism causes a lack of dopamine etc. etc. I'm really confused about all of this, especially because my doctor doesn't seem to know what to do either. Honestly, I believe nobody knows enough about this subject yet so all doctors do is try to increase defiencies in hormones and hope for a positive result wich isn't always the case. Anyway.. What should be my next step? I'm thinking about going to a natural doctor and see if changes in my diet or supplementation can work for me. I also want to see a psychiatrist because at least I would have someone who's not just a person to talk to but also a doctor so that's like a double bonus. Any other suggestions??
I have that "feel dumb even though I'm not" symptom you list. It is weird to explain. I have a suspicion this could be a dopamine deficiency symptom.
Nutritional Healing - Dopamine Deficiency:
"Dopamine deficiency signs/symptoms:
Reduced ability to feel pleasure
Flat, bored, apathetic and low enthusiasm
Depressed
Low drive and motivation
Difficulty getting through a task even when interesting
Procrastinator/little urgency
Difficulty paying attention and concentrating
Slowed thinking and/or slow to learn new ideas
Crave uppers (e.g. caffeine/nicotine/diet soft drinks)
Use these to improve energy/motivation/mood
Prone to addictions (e.g. alcohol)/addictive personality
Shy/introvert
Low libido or impotence
Mentally fatigued easily and physically fatigued easily
Sleep too much and trouble getting out of bed
Put on weight easily
Family history of alcoholism/ADD/ADHD
Dopamine levels may be low due to a combination of genetic and acquired reasons. Dopamine can be raised effectively using either nutrient based therapies or medications. Dopamine is synthesized form the amino acid tyrosine.
Factors which reduce dopamine levels:
Chronic stress
Inadequate sleep
Hypothyroidism
Lead, arsenic and cadmium exposure
Under-methylation
Tyrosine (precursor) deficiency
Magnesium, iron, zinc & vitamins B3/B6/C/D deficiency
Excess copper levels
Genetic dopamine receptor abnormalities
Chronic opioid, alcohol & marijuana use
Adrenal insufficiency
Glutathione deficiency
Parkinson's Disease
Influenza
Estrogen deficiency
Human growth hormone deficiency"
Nutritional Healing - Dopamine Deficiency:
"Dopamine deficiency signs/symptoms:
Reduced ability to feel pleasure
Flat, bored, apathetic and low enthusiasm
Depressed
Low drive and motivation
Difficulty getting through a task even when interesting
Procrastinator/little urgency
Difficulty paying attention and concentrating
Slowed thinking and/or slow to learn new ideas
Crave uppers (e.g. caffeine/nicotine/diet soft drinks)
Use these to improve energy/motivation/mood
Prone to addictions (e.g. alcohol)/addictive personality
Shy/introvert
Low libido or impotence
Mentally fatigued easily and physically fatigued easily
Sleep too much and trouble getting out of bed
Put on weight easily
Family history of alcoholism/ADD/ADHD
Dopamine levels may be low due to a combination of genetic and acquired reasons. Dopamine can be raised effectively using either nutrient based therapies or medications. Dopamine is synthesized form the amino acid tyrosine.
Factors which reduce dopamine levels:
Chronic stress
Inadequate sleep
Hypothyroidism
Lead, arsenic and cadmium exposure
Under-methylation
Tyrosine (precursor) deficiency
Magnesium, iron, zinc & vitamins B3/B6/C/D deficiency
Excess copper levels
Genetic dopamine receptor abnormalities
Chronic opioid, alcohol & marijuana use
Adrenal insufficiency
Glutathione deficiency
Parkinson's Disease
Influenza
Estrogen deficiency
Human growth hormone deficiency"
I also feel like someone is holding my troath lightly or something.. This started a few weeks ago the same time my mood started to get worse than it ever was in my life. I terrorise this house one moment and the next time I cry about the fact that I'm so mean to my family. It's just hard to find out if this is purely mental or not.. according to my doctor it is.
I just now read your second reply. And I honestly don't know what kind of antibodies he tested. I really feel like the doctor is missing something. He says the complete opposite of all the articles, blogs and forums I read about thyroid and testosterone.. He thinks fT3 isn't important because if there would be something wrong he would've seen it in my fT4. He also says that my testosterone is good, because it's in range. No tests for FSH, LH, E2 or anything else.. I'm very confused by all of this and it's pulling me apart. What's a boy to do when the doctor tells him the complete opposite of everything I read about other sufferers. who have the same problems with my testosterone levels and/or TSH levels.
Hello,
Thanks for your quick reaction. Well the testosterone range is 12 to 35 nmol/l and I have 16 wich is normal, but according to everything I read on the internet the average 19 year old is around 22 nmol/l at least. I'm not saying I'm the "average" guy, but a lot of my "problems" seem to be related to an hormonal problem and I'm honestly unable to tell what exactly is the problem.. All I know is that ever since puberty I'm anxious, depressed, unmotivated, easily stressed out, my skin got dry for no reason, my hips are wider than the most boys I see around, my wrists are skinnier than others, I don't have morning erections (my libido is good though), I feel pain in my joints and muscles for no reason and working out seems to help sometimes, but other times it makes me feel weaker and I don't really make progress in the gym either, I have a very hard time focussing and I feel dumb even though I'm not (weird to explain), I forget things all the time (I think something, then i forget and 5 minutes later I'm like huh?? ow yeah that's what I was thinking. Most of the times I'm in the shower and I don't even realise if I actually used soap or not.. or I go upstairs to get something for my mom for example, and than five minutes later I'm sitting at my computer thinking: wasn't I supposed to do something??), I also have diahhrea very often (wich is weird since that's a hyperthyroid symptom right?) and the wird thing is that after a night of not sleeping enough I have always have it.. when tired everything I eat comes out immediatly and most of the times I need to go twice in the morning (first after eating, than half an hour later I have to go again).. I also feel very cold, shaky and sweaty when tired wich might be normal.. but I don't know. All my symptoms are so weird and people tell me that it's all in the head, but I doubt it especially since my hormones aren't "ideal" even though they are normal.. Ow and the weird thing is that my doctor didn't measure my free testosterone or free T3.. I don't know if it's because of the economy or what, but it seems like my doctors don't want to do blood tests unless they know for a 100 percent sure that there is something wrong with it. I really don't know what I should do right now. I've been to a psychologist 3 times and I can't even really explain what the cause of my high ups and downs is. It just happens.
Thanks for your quick reaction. Well the testosterone range is 12 to 35 nmol/l and I have 16 wich is normal, but according to everything I read on the internet the average 19 year old is around 22 nmol/l at least. I'm not saying I'm the "average" guy, but a lot of my "problems" seem to be related to an hormonal problem and I'm honestly unable to tell what exactly is the problem.. All I know is that ever since puberty I'm anxious, depressed, unmotivated, easily stressed out, my skin got dry for no reason, my hips are wider than the most boys I see around, my wrists are skinnier than others, I don't have morning erections (my libido is good though), I feel pain in my joints and muscles for no reason and working out seems to help sometimes, but other times it makes me feel weaker and I don't really make progress in the gym either, I have a very hard time focussing and I feel dumb even though I'm not (weird to explain), I forget things all the time (I think something, then i forget and 5 minutes later I'm like huh?? ow yeah that's what I was thinking. Most of the times I'm in the shower and I don't even realise if I actually used soap or not.. or I go upstairs to get something for my mom for example, and than five minutes later I'm sitting at my computer thinking: wasn't I supposed to do something??), I also have diahhrea very often (wich is weird since that's a hyperthyroid symptom right?) and the wird thing is that after a night of not sleeping enough I have always have it.. when tired everything I eat comes out immediatly and most of the times I need to go twice in the morning (first after eating, than half an hour later I have to go again).. I also feel very cold, shaky and sweaty when tired wich might be normal.. but I don't know. All my symptoms are so weird and people tell me that it's all in the head, but I doubt it especially since my hormones aren't "ideal" even though they are normal.. Ow and the weird thing is that my doctor didn't measure my free testosterone or free T3.. I don't know if it's because of the economy or what, but it seems like my doctors don't want to do blood tests unless they know for a 100 percent sure that there is something wrong with it. I really don't know what I should do right now. I've been to a psychologist 3 times and I can't even really explain what the cause of my high ups and downs is. It just happens.
COMMUNITY LEADER
What antibodies were tested? There are 2 of them that have to be tested to diagnose Hashimoto's. If your doctor only tested one of them, which is quite common, you could still have the other and would have been misdiagnosed.
COMMUNITY LEADER
What's the reference range for the testosterone? Was that free testosterone?
Was there a Free T3 test done? Just because Free T4 is higher in the range, doesn't mean that Free T3 will be, as well. Free T3 is the thyroid hormone that correlates best with symptoms.
Depression/lethargy are common symptoms of hypothyroidism. Do you have other symptoms of either hypothyroidism or hypogonadism?
6.8 is too high for TSH, but TSH is affected by many different things and fluctuates greatly over the course of a day. Additionally, TSH neither causes, nor alleviates symptoms.
Was there a Free T3 test done? Just because Free T4 is higher in the range, doesn't mean that Free T3 will be, as well. Free T3 is the thyroid hormone that correlates best with symptoms.
Depression/lethargy are common symptoms of hypothyroidism. Do you have other symptoms of either hypothyroidism or hypogonadism?
6.8 is too high for TSH, but TSH is affected by many different things and fluctuates greatly over the course of a day. Additionally, TSH neither causes, nor alleviates symptoms.
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