Taking more and more thyroid meds but never feel different

[Sunshine_67]

I'm currently taking 90mcg NP Thyroid and 30mcg T3 and I literally don't feel any different. I"m not hyper at all, but still very hypo. I haven't had labs recently so I have nothing to post, but shouldn't I be feeling some effect when I increase my meds? How can you keep taking more and more meds and never feel any effects? Where is it going??

[gimel]

You have posted about this before.  You also post the same remedy on many other Forums as well.  As I've said time before, if you want to be taken seriously  on this, then please provide references to some statistically valid scientific study results that prove it should even be considered.

[hava]

I have suggested two natural ways to help control and stimulate the thyroid.
Follow this and let me know your progress, and then I can suggest some other methods.
Thyroid point – press the fleshy bit on palm between  the base of thumb and wrist on both hands. Where you  feel sharp pain when you press, that is your thyroid point and you press it 50 times, twice daily.

Kapalbhati pranayam -(Do it before eating)
Build up your timing gradually.If you feel tired or dizzy, stop and resume after one minute.
Push air forcefully out through the nose about once per second. Stomach will itself go in(contract in). The breathing in(through the nose) will happen automatically. Establish a rhythm and do for 20 to 30 minutes twice a day. Children under 15 years – do 5 to 10 minutes twice a day.
Not for pregnant women. Seriously ill people do it gently.
December 11, 2011

[Sunshine_67]

I did recently discover there was cellulose in my compounded T3, so maybe it wasn't absorbing because of that. I tried to get my doc to keep me on T3 only and just change the compound to one without cellulose, but she had it in her mind to put me back on T4. I do have Hashi's and get very bad vertigo from anything with iodine or a form of it like sea kelp or carregean. Swollen tongue is also a hypo symptom.

My pituitary gland is also damaged (I think from birth), so I don't know if my body will ever work 100% right no matter what I'm taking.

[sissaphus]

I've just read that enlarged tongue and/or slowed speech can be a symptom of iodine deficiency. I don't know if you have Hashi/Hypo and I'm not recommending that you take iodine. I have Hashi/Hypo and I wouldn't take it, but maybe you can talk to your doctor about it.

[gimel]

Where are you located?

[flyingfool]

I don't know what to tell you exactly other than to empathize with you.

The only thing that comes to mind is printing off and bringing articles to your Dr. to help prove your case related to conversion problems.

However 50 mcg or Cytomel is a huge dose as you well know.  The fact that it was not raising much your FT3 level is mysterious to me.  And as you say that was with T3 med only that makes even less sense.  The only thing that comes to mind is your cortisol imbalance.  Unfortunately I don't know what solves that situation.

is there some sort of other drug interaction that is messing up absorption of the medication perhaps. Thus essentially lining your stomach and not allowing the medicine to get into the bloodstream?

Just speculating here obviously.  You NEED to get your FT3 levels up some way, some how.

My wife can't find a Dr who will even test FT3 and looks at TSH.  We are changing HMO insurance companies starting next month so we'll see what that brings.  Also I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that my 17, nearly 18 year old also is Hypo.  But again TSH is "normal" so they wouldn't even do an FT4 and certainly not an FT3 test.  So again we'll see if new Dr and HMO will result in better luck.  I pray so.  

[Sunshine_67]

I have taken the saliva test for adrenals NOT the blood test. My cortisol is too high in the morning and too low at night. The article was interesting, but unless I can become my own doctor and prescribe my own drugs, it's not going to make a difference. You can only do what your doctor will allow. I've seen 11 doctors in the past 4 years. I'm running out of money and patience to find another one since most are incompetent when it comes to thyroid and female hormones. I tried doing T3 only for a month, but when I didn't see immediate results, my doctor put me back on T4. I have told her many times that I don't convert well, but she won't listen to me. What can I do? I can't prescribe my own drugs or treat myself. I was up to 50mcg of T3 only and was still very hypo. When I had labs done it showed my FT3 was only 2.4, which was 1 point from being out of range, but my doctor still wouldn't listen. I have no more money to find another doctor. I'm flat broke and the right doctors don't take insurance.

[flyingfool]

I think cortisol is in fact variable throughout the day.  That is why the 24 hour saliva test is the best way to go as it gives the whole cycle and can get an average.  A single test like a blood test is only one single point rather than an average.  Don't know much more than that.

I suspect more of an RT 3 issue.  But that is just a guess.  Nothing else really makes much sense.  Something has to be blocking your cells from getting the FT3.

Did you read the article about how to correct the RT3   problem.  Basically you stop 100% of ANY T4 medication to allow for as little conversion as possible. You go to 100% T3 med. and a fairly high dose since there is no T4 available.  You do this until your RT3 clears out.  However you have to be VERY careful because essentially the only way you  know when it clears out is that you can go Hyper as your cell receptors will start to be cleared of the RT3 and start sucking up the T3 you are  taking.  So you have to be ready immediately to recognize any Hyper symptoms and stop or dramatically cut your T3 medication on a moments notice so to speak.  Then the article states that you can go back to a "normal" treatment program.  I guess assuming that the RT3 problem will be cured.  At least for a time if not permanently.

Finding a Dr. to actually allow this treatment I think would be just short of a miracle.    

[Sunshine_67]

I've only had one doctor allow me to go on T3 only, but after a month I still wasn't feeling better so she put me back on T4/T3 with some extra T3. I've had the saliva test before and it showed my cortisol was off balance (too low in the morning and too high at night). Unfortunately I have to see holistic type docs since all mainstream docs treat by TSH only and mine is always suppressed.

I feel worse when my thyroid dose is lowered, but I don't feel any better when it's increased. I see my doc in two weeks and am going to ask her for another thyroid test. It takes like 3 weeks to get the RT3 results back though since they're sent out of state so I may not know anything for a month.

If you're constantly under stress from working full time and doing everything for yourself, how do you ever balance your cortisol?

[flyingfool]

The ONLY way reverse T3 (RT3) is made is from the conversion process of T4 into T3.  So if you take T4 meds that means that more T4 is available for converting and if your body during the conversion process makes an excess of reverse T3 than normal Free T3 then this may explain your situation.

you need to have the Rt 3 levels checked and also correlate it to the ratio of FT3 and RT3.

Also people may have issues similar to your situation of having apparently "proper" levels of FT4 & FT3 but still not getting symptom relief when they have low cortisol.  Apparently Cortisol is needed to allow the FT3 to actually get into the body's cells.  So you could also have this situation.  So you may want to have a cortisol test done.  The best one to do is the 24 hour saliva test versuse the one time sample of a blood test.

If you have RT3 plugging up your cells or you have low cortisol or both, this would or at least could explain your problem.

In essence either one of those situations would make you "appear" to me resistant to thyroid. meaning no matter how much you take it seems to not change how you feel.  

You may want to check out stop the thyroid madness website. They have some articles describing this I believe related to adrenal fatigue. http://www.*************************/adrenal-info/

here are two places I've found related to RT3:

http://www.custommedicine.com.au/health-articles/reverse-t3-dominance/

http://thyroid-rt3.com/

http://tiredthyroid.com/rt3.html

[Sunshine_67]

Thank you for the link. Like I said, my doctor doses by symptoms since I have hypopituitarism and my labs don't always show how I"m really feeling. My FT3 and FT4 have both been in the upper parts of the ranges and I still was extremely hypo. My RT3 has always been high and always goes up when I take T4 meds. Something in my body is blocking these meds from getting into the cells. Just because they're in my bloodstream doesn't mean they're working.

[gimel]

Sorry, the intervening post caused me to miss that about the T3.  I'd really like to see current labs including Free T3, Free T4, TSH, and Reverse T3.  Your many hypo symptoms, even with the meds you are taking, make me think that your FT3/RT3 ratio will be too low.  

I am sending PM with a good link about RT3, just in case you haven't seen it.  

[Sunshine_67]

These are my symptoms from that list:
•Feeling tired (fatigue) and sluggishness
•Constipation
•Loss of eyebrows
•Dry, thinning, or coarse hair (hair loss as well)
•An enlarged tongue
•Decreased sweating
irregular menstrual periods (regular since starting bioidentical hormones)
•Infertility
•Depression

symptoms not on the list:
severe brain fog
low bp
low basal temp
cold hands and feet
trouble falling asleep and staying asleep
still tired in morning even after sleeping
multiple food allergies

[Sunshine_67]

I'm not taking T4 only. My original post shows what meds I'm taking. I also just said that labs don't show how the thyroid meds are affecting my body because they're not getting into the cells. They show up on bloodtests, but I still feel bad even when my FT3 and FT4 are at the right levels. I also tend to have a high RT3 when I take T4 meds.

[gimel]

You say that you feel bad.  If you look at this list of 26 typical hypothyroid symptoms, which ones do you have?  

http://endocrine-system.emedtv.com/hypothyroidism/hypothyroidism-symptoms-and-signs.html

Since you are taking only T4 meds, you should be aware that many hypo patients taking T4 meds do not adequately convert the T4 to T3, thus ending up with Free T3 that is too low in its range.   Free T3 largely regulates metabolism and many other body functions.  Scientific studies have also shown that Free T3 correlated best with hypo symptoms while Free T4 and TSH did not correlate.  So you really need current tests done for Free T3, Free T4, and TSH.  

Many of our members report that symptom relief for them required that Free T3 was adjusted into the upper part of its range and Free T4 adjusted to around the middle of its range.  Since there is the possibility of inadequate conversion, you should also test for Vitamin A, D, B12, zinc,selenium, and also test for iron anemia.  

You need a good thyroid doctor, by which I mean one that will treat a hypo patient clinically by testing and adjusting Free T3 and Free T4 as necessary to relieve symptoms, without being constrained by resultant TSH levels.   Symptom relief should be all important, not just test results.   You can get some good insight into clinical treatment from this letter written by a good thyroid doctor for patients that he sometimes consults with from a distance.  The letter is sent to the PCP of the patient to help guide treatment.

http://hormonerestoration.com/files/ThyroidPMD.pdf

[Sunshine_67]

My TSH will always be suppressed due to having hypopituitarism. In the past my blood labs have shown my thyroid meds are in my blood stream, but not getting into the cells. My labs have shown normal in the past but I still am very hypo. My current doc is going more by symptoms than labs. I'm waiting on labs for D and B12. I'm not anemic, but my ferritin goes up and down.

[gimel]

Without current lab tests for Free T3, Free T4 (not the same as Total T3 and Total T4), along with Reverse T3 and TSH, we cannot tell if the meds are being adequately absorbed and thus reflected in your blood levels.  Also, have you been tested for Vitamin A, D, B12, and to determine if you are iron anemic?

[Dinemarquesa]

I'm on Levothyroxine 200mcg once a day for 6 days on the 7th day I take 400mcg.  My Labs are coming back normal. I have so much fatigued.

Labs are TSH= 1.19

Free T4= 1.48

This means clinically I'm ok, but I still feel like Crap. The Doctors are not looking into it at all.  I do not know who to turn to.