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Test Results
My Oncologist called this evening and we discussed how I was feeling. She said all the results, except T-3, are normal (T-3 is a bit low). I will pick up a copy of the results next week and post them for you.
She was open to trying cytomel which I will be starting tomorrow. She says it will take about 8 weeks to fully work. Then we will do more blood work. We will combine this with the 150 mcg of synthroid--anything higher and I get heart palpitations.
My family complains that I am not the same person I was before the cancer. That I still look pale, ill, am depressed a lot, and I dropped too much weight. I went hyperthyroid prior to the cancer diagnosis but gained some weight back through the holidays. My clothes are fitting tighter :-(
Through Christmas I was jumpy and very easily excitable (very hard to calm down). I'm hoping the cytomel will not make this worse? Although I understand they mean well and are not trying to hurt me, it's still embarrassing, does hurt a lot, and makes me feel even worse. People say to be patient to find the right dosages. I feel I have been very patient since starting my medication Feb this year (10 months ago), but its been a long time, and my patience is wearing thin? Others in my workplace complain about my moodiness and say they know other people who are fine with this disease and are stable on their meds--thus I should be stable by now?
I'm frustrated with this journey. Thanks for letting me vent.
Cat
She was open to trying cytomel which I will be starting tomorrow. She says it will take about 8 weeks to fully work. Then we will do more blood work. We will combine this with the 150 mcg of synthroid--anything higher and I get heart palpitations.
My family complains that I am not the same person I was before the cancer. That I still look pale, ill, am depressed a lot, and I dropped too much weight. I went hyperthyroid prior to the cancer diagnosis but gained some weight back through the holidays. My clothes are fitting tighter :-(
Through Christmas I was jumpy and very easily excitable (very hard to calm down). I'm hoping the cytomel will not make this worse? Although I understand they mean well and are not trying to hurt me, it's still embarrassing, does hurt a lot, and makes me feel even worse. People say to be patient to find the right dosages. I feel I have been very patient since starting my medication Feb this year (10 months ago), but its been a long time, and my patience is wearing thin? Others in my workplace complain about my moodiness and say they know other people who are fine with this disease and are stable on their meds--thus I should be stable by now?
I'm frustrated with this journey. Thanks for letting me vent.
Cat
Thanks so much for your info. Your knowlege is very impressive. Have you learned all this on your own?
Thanks for the inquiry, but I'm not lactose intolerant. I don't drink much milk at all, mostly water. With the synthroid @ 150mcg and the cytomel @12.5 mcg/day the ratio works out to 12:1 which is fairly close to the 14:1 ratio you quoted for a normal thryroid?
Although the Canadian medical system has many good points, it also has its flaws. One is the lack of communication. When I was diagnosed with cancer, I was given a pat on the back and told I was going to be o.k. That was pretty much it. When I heard the word "cancer" I went into shock. I know my surgeon saw my reaction, but he gave me no information--particularly that it was very curable. I found that out from his receptionist a few days later. Nor was I informed about what was going to happen after the surgeries and that I would become hypothyroid for the rest of my life. What I know I learned mostly on my own, but did not come across the drug "cytomel" until I entered this forum. Since I have not felt well, I thought it would be good to try it--even though I am eating healthily?
Up until aabout 2 months ago, when my period started changing again, I felt o.k. The depression has been around much longer than that; however, when my period changed that's when it started getting much worse.
I have 2 small ovarian cysts, one on each side. They do not cause me too much pain...mostly during my period. I think they might be affecting how I feel? I will be getting the ultra-sound results soon and will call my Oncologist this week to get a referral to an Endocrinologist ASAP.
During my illness I dropped about 30 pounds. The during my recovery I took off another much-needed 45 with a lot of exercise and healthy eating. In retrospect, I probably took it off much too fast (gained 10 back through the holidays with Mom's delectibly good danish goodies!). My concern with the anti-depressants is more weight gain--as I know it will be hard to get back off?
I have rested all day and am starting to come out of the worst of the depression.
Thanks to all for being so understanding, compassionate, and non-judgmental!
Happy Happy Happy New Year!
~Cat
Thanks for the inquiry, but I'm not lactose intolerant. I don't drink much milk at all, mostly water. With the synthroid @ 150mcg and the cytomel @12.5 mcg/day the ratio works out to 12:1 which is fairly close to the 14:1 ratio you quoted for a normal thryroid?
Although the Canadian medical system has many good points, it also has its flaws. One is the lack of communication. When I was diagnosed with cancer, I was given a pat on the back and told I was going to be o.k. That was pretty much it. When I heard the word "cancer" I went into shock. I know my surgeon saw my reaction, but he gave me no information--particularly that it was very curable. I found that out from his receptionist a few days later. Nor was I informed about what was going to happen after the surgeries and that I would become hypothyroid for the rest of my life. What I know I learned mostly on my own, but did not come across the drug "cytomel" until I entered this forum. Since I have not felt well, I thought it would be good to try it--even though I am eating healthily?
Up until aabout 2 months ago, when my period started changing again, I felt o.k. The depression has been around much longer than that; however, when my period changed that's when it started getting much worse.
I have 2 small ovarian cysts, one on each side. They do not cause me too much pain...mostly during my period. I think they might be affecting how I feel? I will be getting the ultra-sound results soon and will call my Oncologist this week to get a referral to an Endocrinologist ASAP.
During my illness I dropped about 30 pounds. The during my recovery I took off another much-needed 45 with a lot of exercise and healthy eating. In retrospect, I probably took it off much too fast (gained 10 back through the holidays with Mom's delectibly good danish goodies!). My concern with the anti-depressants is more weight gain--as I know it will be hard to get back off?
I have rested all day and am starting to come out of the worst of the depression.
Thanks to all for being so understanding, compassionate, and non-judgmental!
Happy Happy Happy New Year!
~Cat
Sorry I am a little late on this. But first....
I take mega vitamins, I am a lacto ovo vegetarian, very perticular about foods I eat - hardly eat processed and I took antidepressants. However, right now I am taking anxiety medication which works better for me. I fought this and my sister for years before I finally broke down and gave myself permission to take the antidepressants. My motto now is, why suffer needlessly when there is help out there.
If and when, things get bad enough or you are about ready to lose someone dear to you because of your depression, you will do anything to save the relationship, even antidepressants.
That said....
Cytomel contains lactose as a filler - are you ok with this!(?)
When taking both synthetic T4 and T3 as separate pills, the ratio of T3 to T4 can be controlled. However, T3 is
faster-acting than T4, so its suggested to spread out the dose and take it two or more times a day to avoid having energy levels crash when the effects of T3 wear off. However,
timed-release T3 is also available. Although lab results may not indicate a problem, even a combination of synthetic T4 and T3 sometimes doesn't alleviate all of the symptoms of hypothyroidism. Evidence to support the hypothesis that substitution of L-T3 ratio for a portion of daily L-T4 produces better outcomes in a primary (mostly autoimmune) hypothyroid population than treatment with the original amount of L-T4 alone; and therefore its normally not recommend.
Not approving of T-3 for the normal thyroid (except for perhaps
T-3 syndrome, which is very rare) I am reluctant to give a ratio. However, you might consider a base line of what a natural, healthy thyroid produces. From what I have read, Normal Daily Thyroid Secretion Rate: T4 = 100 ug/day and T3 = 6 ug/day, a ( ratio T4:T3 = 14:1 )
Beings you have such a healthy life style, and it sounds like you do, I am a little surprised that you agreed on T-3 supplement. Anyway I wish you luck with it and let us know how you are doing taking it. A lot of women swear good by it, while others swear bad by it.
Happy New Year!
I take mega vitamins, I am a lacto ovo vegetarian, very perticular about foods I eat - hardly eat processed and I took antidepressants. However, right now I am taking anxiety medication which works better for me. I fought this and my sister for years before I finally broke down and gave myself permission to take the antidepressants. My motto now is, why suffer needlessly when there is help out there.
If and when, things get bad enough or you are about ready to lose someone dear to you because of your depression, you will do anything to save the relationship, even antidepressants.
That said....
Cytomel contains lactose as a filler - are you ok with this!(?)
When taking both synthetic T4 and T3 as separate pills, the ratio of T3 to T4 can be controlled. However, T3 is
faster-acting than T4, so its suggested to spread out the dose and take it two or more times a day to avoid having energy levels crash when the effects of T3 wear off. However,
timed-release T3 is also available. Although lab results may not indicate a problem, even a combination of synthetic T4 and T3 sometimes doesn't alleviate all of the symptoms of hypothyroidism. Evidence to support the hypothesis that substitution of L-T3 ratio for a portion of daily L-T4 produces better outcomes in a primary (mostly autoimmune) hypothyroid population than treatment with the original amount of L-T4 alone; and therefore its normally not recommend.
Not approving of T-3 for the normal thyroid (except for perhaps
T-3 syndrome, which is very rare) I am reluctant to give a ratio. However, you might consider a base line of what a natural, healthy thyroid produces. From what I have read, Normal Daily Thyroid Secretion Rate: T4 = 100 ug/day and T3 = 6 ug/day, a ( ratio T4:T3 = 14:1 )
Beings you have such a healthy life style, and it sounds like you do, I am a little surprised that you agreed on T-3 supplement. Anyway I wish you luck with it and let us know how you are doing taking it. A lot of women swear good by it, while others swear bad by it.
Happy New Year!
Thanks utahmomma...
I agree that it is the hypothyroidism, not the synthroid, as my sister-in-law says the depression accompanies other thyroid drugs too--just not as frequent?
I started the cytomel/synthroid combo this morning. I have a two day training class coming mid-Jan at work. I am hoping to feel a bit better by then?
I did an on-line assessment for bi-polar D/O and depression last night. Came up borderline for bi-polar and positive for clinical depression.
I also agree with members of the forum that these things can get worse during the holidays (lots of stressors?) and the darkness winter. This could be why I am feeling so blue?
I am now on my days off from work and will do a lot of TLC. Some extra naps surrounded by a new soft blanket sounds lovely.
Often we are so used to taking care of others that we can sometimes forget to do self-care. It is important to put ourselves further up on our priority lists. Thanks to the members of the forum for reminding us of this, and to be a little more loving and gentle to ourselves.
~Cat
I agree that it is the hypothyroidism, not the synthroid, as my sister-in-law says the depression accompanies other thyroid drugs too--just not as frequent?
I started the cytomel/synthroid combo this morning. I have a two day training class coming mid-Jan at work. I am hoping to feel a bit better by then?
I did an on-line assessment for bi-polar D/O and depression last night. Came up borderline for bi-polar and positive for clinical depression.
I also agree with members of the forum that these things can get worse during the holidays (lots of stressors?) and the darkness winter. This could be why I am feeling so blue?
I am now on my days off from work and will do a lot of TLC. Some extra naps surrounded by a new soft blanket sounds lovely.
Often we are so used to taking care of others that we can sometimes forget to do self-care. It is important to put ourselves further up on our priority lists. Thanks to the members of the forum for reminding us of this, and to be a little more loving and gentle to ourselves.
~Cat
I know, it does feel like what my daughter has described as a bipolar episode! Funny thing is my diagnosed bipolar daughter doesn't have the symptoms when she stays on her Synthroid (not pushing the brand - it just happens to be the only one that works for our family).
Interesting thoughts about Synthroid and depression. I would tend to relate the depression more to the hypothyroidism than the meds based completely on recent experience.
I've been mildly depressed since my first thyroid surgery in Nov 2003 but I had to go off it for three weeks this past November for RAI. The Synthroid was out of my system and my TSH was upwards of 75.9 and I was seriously suicidal. I have never felt such crushing depression and it just got worse for the week following my RAI until my TSH levels started to drop. I was actually on a double dose of Synthroid for 5 days after RAI (.400mcg daily) and I'm just starting to know that the depression is lifting. I woke up a few days ago and just felt things were so much better. They Synthroid actually pulled me out of the depression by lowering my TSH levels.
My vote, it's the thyroid condition and levels, not the medication but that's just my experience.
Hang in there - it *does* get better!!!
Interesting thoughts about Synthroid and depression. I would tend to relate the depression more to the hypothyroidism than the meds based completely on recent experience.
I've been mildly depressed since my first thyroid surgery in Nov 2003 but I had to go off it for three weeks this past November for RAI. The Synthroid was out of my system and my TSH was upwards of 75.9 and I was seriously suicidal. I have never felt such crushing depression and it just got worse for the week following my RAI until my TSH levels started to drop. I was actually on a double dose of Synthroid for 5 days after RAI (.400mcg daily) and I'm just starting to know that the depression is lifting. I woke up a few days ago and just felt things were so much better. They Synthroid actually pulled me out of the depression by lowering my TSH levels.
My vote, it's the thyroid condition and levels, not the medication but that's just my experience.
Hang in there - it *does* get better!!!
Thanks again for all your helpful advise!
Had a family dinner tonight. My sister-in-law was a pharmacy assistant for many years and now manages a new pharmacy. She says the frequency of people on synthroid experiencing depression is quite high. It seems they often go hand-in-hand. Interesting? She once asked the pharamcist about it, but he said there was no relation. I wonder if any empirical double blind studies have been done that are not associated with the drug manufacturer? Is it the synthroid, hypothyroidism, genetics, or nature vs nuture? She has just become the manager of a new store. I'm going to ask her if the pattern is the same.
My Oncologist has me taking 1/2 of a 25 mcg pill of cytomel once a day with the 150 mcg of synthroid. I will try it and see how I feel. I will also ask for a referral to an Endocrinologist in the new year.
I had another rough day at work but felt much better when I got home. I'm very emotional, a bit jumpy, haven't slept well since the cancer, my thoughts sometimes race, at times I talk very fast and have difficulty calming down, as well as the depression--which has been the worst. I'm worried this may be turning into something similar to bi-polar disorder? I hope not. ~Cat
Had a family dinner tonight. My sister-in-law was a pharmacy assistant for many years and now manages a new pharmacy. She says the frequency of people on synthroid experiencing depression is quite high. It seems they often go hand-in-hand. Interesting? She once asked the pharamcist about it, but he said there was no relation. I wonder if any empirical double blind studies have been done that are not associated with the drug manufacturer? Is it the synthroid, hypothyroidism, genetics, or nature vs nuture? She has just become the manager of a new store. I'm going to ask her if the pattern is the same.
My Oncologist has me taking 1/2 of a 25 mcg pill of cytomel once a day with the 150 mcg of synthroid. I will try it and see how I feel. I will also ask for a referral to an Endocrinologist in the new year.
I had another rough day at work but felt much better when I got home. I'm very emotional, a bit jumpy, haven't slept well since the cancer, my thoughts sometimes race, at times I talk very fast and have difficulty calming down, as well as the depression--which has been the worst. I'm worried this may be turning into something similar to bi-polar disorder? I hope not. ~Cat
Oncologists are amazing but they are focused on the treatment of cancer. Endocrinologists specialize on (surprise) the endocrine system. In our conditions it's best to have a specialist treating us, especially where you have had cancer. Ask your oncologist - most (GOOD) doctors love to work hand-in-hand with another specialist. They each bring something to the table. My internal medicine specialist (my GP) referred me to both my endocrinologist and my OB/GYN and works very closely with both of them. It's a great team effort.
There are some natural things that are supposed to have antidepressant qualities. Problem is you never know exactly what formulation will work best for you and there is no guarantee you are getting the same potency from batch to batch. Brain chemistry is a very delicate thing and your oncologist, and endocrinologist, or a regular physician all work with people going through depression after major medical events. Your doctors are also there to watch for signs of trouble and make sure you are getting the desired results. My $.02 worth but I'd go the medical route for my depression (hey, that's right, I am!) instead of letting things get worse.
There are a *ton* of us on this forum who are going through depression following our thyroid adventures. It's nothing to be ashamed of and balancing out your brain chemistry (and feeling better) will help you heal faster.
Hang in there - you've overcome cancer you can get through this too! Lean on us, that's what we are here for.
Happy, healthy New Year!
There are some natural things that are supposed to have antidepressant qualities. Problem is you never know exactly what formulation will work best for you and there is no guarantee you are getting the same potency from batch to batch. Brain chemistry is a very delicate thing and your oncologist, and endocrinologist, or a regular physician all work with people going through depression after major medical events. Your doctors are also there to watch for signs of trouble and make sure you are getting the desired results. My $.02 worth but I'd go the medical route for my depression (hey, that's right, I am!) instead of letting things get worse.
There are a *ton* of us on this forum who are going through depression following our thyroid adventures. It's nothing to be ashamed of and balancing out your brain chemistry (and feeling better) will help you heal faster.
Hang in there - you've overcome cancer you can get through this too! Lean on us, that's what we are here for.
Happy, healthy New Year!
Thankyou so much for all your support and normalizing what I have been going through. I was struggling quite hard to get through the day yesterday. I really appreciate the help!
As of yet, I do not have an Endocrinologist. Perhaps I need to request a referral?
My Oncologist wants to try the synthroid/cytomel combo for 2 months to see how I feel. If I am not feeling right before then, she says to call. I am not sure what dosage of cytomel she has me on, I will find out today. My instructions are to take half a pill every day. I will let you know.
Since I had cancer, I have changed into a very healthy lifestyle (except for the splurge during the holidays). I eat mostly health food and exercise regularly. Because of this, I am a little skeptical going the anti-depressant route--although I am open to it. Perhaps there is a more natural route?
Have a Very Happy New Year...and may good health, peace, and love fill your hearts and all those around you!
Cat
As of yet, I do not have an Endocrinologist. Perhaps I need to request a referral?
My Oncologist wants to try the synthroid/cytomel combo for 2 months to see how I feel. If I am not feeling right before then, she says to call. I am not sure what dosage of cytomel she has me on, I will find out today. My instructions are to take half a pill every day. I will let you know.
Since I had cancer, I have changed into a very healthy lifestyle (except for the splurge during the holidays). I eat mostly health food and exercise regularly. Because of this, I am a little skeptical going the anti-depressant route--although I am open to it. Perhaps there is a more natural route?
Have a Very Happy New Year...and may good health, peace, and love fill your hearts and all those around you!
Cat
Hi there. So it looks that we're on the same timeline since I've had my second surgery in February also. However, I can tell you that everyone is different and everyone adjusts differently. Ok, with that said, you may want to lower your Synthroid dosage if you're already excitable without the Cytomel. So, in my opinion, it should be 125mcg Synthroid and you have some room with Cytomel since the effects of it are much quicker. I would probably start with 10mcg and if needed go up to 25mcg. You can also try to take the 10mcg, if needed, twice a day (one in the am but give it time between the Synthroid and the Cytomel and one in the afternoon if you're getting tired). It took about 3 to 4 weeks for me to adjust to the combo, but it is so good right now. I have never felt better. I still have to address the moodiness (not really excitable), I just feel like I'm PMSing 24/7. Other than that, it's all good. Good luck and I'm glad you have a doctor that is allowing you to try the combo, I think you'll see it makes a lot of difference.
My goodness girl! it takes a long time to heal. You and your body went through a stressful period. No matter what type of surgery the body goes through a little shock process whether you feel it or not - surgery is rough. Give yourself permission to take all the time you need for your body and mind to heal. 10 months is not all that long, especially considering you probably were sick way longer before that.
Cytomel might help with the depression. T-3 is known to do this for some. After giving it some time to work and it doesn't, I agree with utahmomma, talk to your endo about antidepressants to help you get through the rough spots of healing until your levels kick in and you feel better.
Be kind to yourself - you deserve it!
Cytomel might help with the depression. T-3 is known to do this for some. After giving it some time to work and it doesn't, I agree with utahmomma, talk to your endo about antidepressants to help you get through the rough spots of healing until your levels kick in and you feel better.
Be kind to yourself - you deserve it!
Vent away Cat!
Holidays are horrible for the healthiest, most stable people. Going through all that we have and we celebrate on New Years that we dragged ourselves across one more finish line.
Some people adjust to their meds quickly then there's the rest of us. I'm lucky, I only had to go through 4 levels of synthroid before I found the correct one. Many others have tried nearly every combination known to medicine. Thyroid problems also come with depression and the symptoms your family are describing could very well be depression.
Can you have a sit down chat with your endo about antidepressants? One major system in our bodies going wacko will affect the chemistry of the brain and antidepressants are nothing to be ashamed of!
Hang in there Cat! I'll post more tomorrow, it's nearly 1 a.m. and the Ambien is just starting to kick in.
We're here for you!
Holidays are horrible for the healthiest, most stable people. Going through all that we have and we celebrate on New Years that we dragged ourselves across one more finish line.
Some people adjust to their meds quickly then there's the rest of us. I'm lucky, I only had to go through 4 levels of synthroid before I found the correct one. Many others have tried nearly every combination known to medicine. Thyroid problems also come with depression and the symptoms your family are describing could very well be depression.
Can you have a sit down chat with your endo about antidepressants? One major system in our bodies going wacko will affect the chemistry of the brain and antidepressants are nothing to be ashamed of!
Hang in there Cat! I'll post more tomorrow, it's nearly 1 a.m. and the Ambien is just starting to kick in.
We're here for you!
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