Thyroid Disorders Community
Thyroid question part 1
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This patient support community is for discussions relating to thyroid issues, goiter, Graves disease, Hashimoto's Thyroiditis, Human Growth Hormone (HGH), hyperthyroid, hypothyroid, metabolism, parathyroid, pituitary gland, thyroiditis, and thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH).

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Thyroid question part 1

To properly get a few helpful correct responses, i will tell my story...

I used to be a very good athlete back in school. Fullback and linebacker. Always on the field. Doing stairs and working out was very common. Yrs later I started driving OTR trucking, not cause i wanted to but had to for my family.
Did this for approx 5 yrs. During that time, i would drink mostly mountain dew, hardly ever water. My feet would swell up so bad i couldnt see my ankles at all and my sock would leave an indentation. My first year driving i lost a bet and had to wax my legs. Well, hair never grew back. My wife was upset that my legs were more smooth than hers.
Few yrs later i started developing these redish type blotches or age spot looking things on my hands. Nothing on any other part of my body, just the top of my hands. It looked like i had the hands of a 90 yr old. My hair on my head was thinning as well. Not going bald but just not as thick as it used to be.
I started getting this wart thing on the top of my hand. Went to a doc and they tried freezing it off. Well it came back and i was always trying something to make it go away. I even cut under it with a scalpel trying to remove the source. Still came back. I wouldnt have shook my own hand. I tried and did everything. (now gone by the way).

Due to my feet swelling, my wife told me to see a Dr. I was perscribed HTCZ (water pills) which would make me pee ALOT. Then he told me to go see another Dr at this Hematology & Oncology office.
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In order to keep all your information together, so members don't have to go back and forth between your two posts, I'm going to paste your other thread into this one;   I''ll to do it in 2 separate posts, then I'll try to answer your questions.

Thyroid question part 2
by GeminiX  /4 hours

After blood work, i found out my THYROID hasnt been working for yrs and i was put on 100mg of LEVOTHYROXINE daily. After a few months i figured i would stop taking the HTCZ med since the other LEV med was supposed to level my system out back to norm levels. Well 2 days after not being on the HTCZ my feet were swollen again. So i started taking them again and swelling went away.

During my 4 different office visits and blood work drawn every month. Things started to normalize, yet she still brought up doing a bone marrow test. She wants to give this med more time to start working before doing that test. Something is still not normal on my blood work, i just cannot remember what it was. I think it was a fancy name for white blood cells.
So i am now off that HTCZ (water pills) although i still pee like i was still on them.
Thyroid question part 2 (cont)

"For the past few months, after waking up in the morning and getting out of bed, i hobble along. Its like my achilles tendon and my calf muscle are as one. i cannot walk till they loosin up. Not to mention my knees. Going up and down the stairs is a chore. Even standing up from stitting on one of my kids step stools is hard. Its hurts and at times, it feels like something is going to give! I never felt this way at anytime sitting all day driving from here to there. I would never excercise at all. I would drive for 11 hrs, sleep and repeat and yet i never felt my knees feeling the way they feel now.
Not to mention a major difference in volume of ejaculation. Its now a simple drop. Its a pride thing to most guys. Make ya feel pretty inadequate.

So my question is, is there another form of meds for hyperthyroidism or even herbal things and what can i do for my knees so i can start doing more normal things. I read another post where this guy was taking fish oil, calcium and bla bla."

First off, if you're on levothyroxine, you have HypOthyroidism, not hypERthyroidism.   Second, no, there are no herbs, etc that you can take in place of the medication.

The first thing we'll need to know is the exact blood tests that were done and what the actual results and reference ranges were.  If you didn't get a copy of the report, your doctor is obligated to provide one upon request.  You should have had a minimum of Free T3, Free T4 and TSH for thyroid tests, plus antibody tests.

Did anyone happen to mention whether or not you have Hashimoto's Thyroiditis?  Hashimoto's is an autoimmune thyroid disease, in which the body sees the thyroid as foreign and produces antibodies to destroy it.  The destruction process often takes months or years and as it progresses the thyroid makes less and less hormones.  Eventually, the antibodies destroy all healthy thyroid tissue, so we’re dependent on the replacement hormones.  

There are different types of medications you can try, such as name brands, Synthroid, Tirosint, Levoxyl, etc.  Those are all T4 only medications.  You can, also. try desiccated hormones which are derived from pig thyroid and contain, both, T3 and T4. These include Armour Thyroid, Canadian ERFA, NatureThroid, etc..   Many people can only do well on desiccated, many others don’t need all the extra T3, so don’t do well at all on it.

White blood cells, basically, fight infection or inflammation.  There are several types of white blood cells, and they each serve a slightly different purpose.

Did the doctor happen to say WHY she wanted to do a bone marrow test?

100 mcg of levothyroxine is a pretty hefty starting dose.  It’s usually best to start lower and work up, as needed, depending on how well symptoms are alleviated and blood test stabilize.
Sorry, MedHelp has some issues going on with longer posts, so I had to break this up into 2 posts.


It sounds like you are still quite hypo, but, again, we’d need to see current blood tests in order to determine that.

Many people who are hypo, are also deficient in some vitamins/minerals.  The main ones are vitamin B12 and D, magnesium, selenium, zinc.  Both magnesium and vitamin D are essential for the proper absorption of calcium. Bone/joint pain are particularly common with magnesium deficiency.  

The reproductive system and the thyroid are both part of the endocrine system and all the hormones must work together; when they don’t other things go wrong.  Have you had testosterone and other reproductive hormones tested?  

It sounds like you may have more than one thing going on, but we’ll be able to tell more after we see what blood tests have been done.  Do make sure to post reference ranges, with any blood test results, since ranges vary lab to lab and must come from your own report
Wow. I honestly didnt expect to hear anything back. I am so glad i asked here. I will get the related info and post it. In regards to the TESTOSTERONE, yes, i was quite low when first tested. I was so mellow and now my temper is back like it was years ago and my leg shakes all the time. I even wiggle my foot back and forth in my sleep says my wife. I can hold still.
This place is so great. Still in aww over the replies. Thank you so much! :)
Though we volunteer our time, here, we do our best to answer as many posts/questions as we can.  

Will look forward to seeing your labs and other information, and we can try to go from there.  Be sure to post it here, so we can keep it all together.
i will not know my tests till i get them monday and i will post everyone of them so its known what i was on my first test to the present.
My wife did get these mens health ONE DAILY supplements (w/Lycopene) by EQUATE. It says compare to One A Day. The reason i am posting the following, i am not sure if each of these have the correct MG's or if i need to take a higher dose seperatley...
Supplement Facts = Vitamin A - 3500 I.U....C - 90mg....D - 400 I.U....E - 45 I.U....K - 20mcg...Thiamin (B-1) - 1.2mg....Riboflavin (B-2) - 1.7mg....Niacin - 16mg....B-6 - 3mg....Folic Acid - 400mcg....B-12 - 18mcg....Biotin - 30mcg....Pantothenic Acid - 5mg....Calcium - 210mg.... Magnesium - 120mg....Zinc - 15mg....Selenuim - 105mcg....Copper - 2mg....Manganese - 2mg....Chromium - 120mg....Potassium - 100mg....Lycopene - 100mcg but i suppose nothing matters for an answer till i post the test results.
Hi and welcome.  I'm just going to throw in my nickel's worth since you said you were looking for opinionS.

I agree with everything Barb has said so far.  

As far as the multivitamin is concerned, it seems like a bit of a mishmash.  For example, 90 mg of C is virtually nothing.  Many people deficient in D take 50,000 IU a week, so once again, 400 IU per day falls a little short of the mark.  

I've had joint pain issues like you, and I take 250 mg magnesium twice a day.  It's water soluble, so what your body doesn't need gets flushed.  

On the other hand, RDA for selenium is 70 mcg per day (which is what I actually take).  Selenium is not water soluble, so you do have to use it wisely.  

I think you'd be better off actually having vitamin levels (the ones Barb suggested, especially) tested and supplementing those with a really reasonable dose.  Multivitamins tend to be a one-size-fits-all concept...mostly good for people who really don't need them to begin with.  

You're right, until we see some numbers, our hands are tied to some extent.
Ok i dont see anywhere about a Hashimotos Thyroiditis test but i have 3 seperate sheets for each time i was there. Was hoping there was a way to scan them and then upload as photos but guess i will just have to type...

First Visit 06.28.12
Sodium 146....Potassium 4.9....Chloride 107....Carbon Dioxide 27....Anion Gap 12....Glucose 82...Calcium 9.3....Urea Nitrogen 18....Creatinine 1.3....Total Protein 9.7....Albumin 4.1....Globulin 5.5....A/G Ratio .7....Alkp 47....Ast 94....Alt 70....Total Bil .6....GFR >60...
WBC 3.3....LY 50.9....MO 7.7....GR 41.4....LY#1.7....MO#0.3....GR#1.4....RBC 3.64....HGB 11.7....HCT 35.4....MCV 97.3....MCH 32.1....MCHC 33.0....RDW 16.0....PLT 109...MPV 8.0

Second Visit 7.24.12
Sodium 144...Potassium 5.0....Chloride 110....Carbon Dioxide 27.... Anion Gap 7....Glucose 91....Calcium 8.5....Urea Nitrogen 23....Creatinine 1.1....Total Protein 8.8....Albumin 3.7....Globulin 5.1....A/G ratio .7....ALKP 56....AST45....ALT 39....Total Bil .6 GFR >60...
WBC 3.4....LY 45.2....MO 9.2....GR 45.6....LY#1.5....MO#0.3...GR#1.6....RBC 3.58....HGB 11.2....HCT 35.1....MCV 98.0....MCH 31.3....MCHC 31.9....RDW 15.5....PLT 118...MPV 8.1..
Also with this test i have another sheet saying..CEA..CA-125...CA27-29...PSA...FERRITIN and all of these had NO results wrtoe in except for TSH which was 34.2
Third Visit 8.21.12
Viatamin B12 =574 and Folate =8.1
Sodium 145....Potassium 4.6....Chloride 110....Carbon Dioxide 27...Anion Gap 8....Glucose 92....Calcium 8.5.... Urea Nitrogen 17....Creatinine 1.0....Total Protein 8.0....Albumin 3.3....Globulin 4.7....A/G ratio .7....ALKP 65....AST 66....ALT 97.... Total Bili .5....GFR= >60...
WBC 4.1...LY 44.9....MO 7.0....GR 48.1....LY#1.8....MO#0.3....GR#2.0....RBC 3.76....Hgb 12.2....Hct 36.9....mcv 98.2....MCH 32.4....mchc 33.0....rdw 14.1....plt 104....mpv 8.9
TSH 3.07

Fourth Visit 10.22.12
Sodium 143...Potassium 5.0...Chloride 107....Carbon Dioxide 24....Anion Gap 12....Glucose 92....Calcium 8.9....Urea Nitrogen 19....Creatinine 1.0....Total Protein 8.7....Albumin 3.6....Globulin 5.1....A/G Ratio .7....ALKP 73....AST 62....ALT 95....Total BILI .6...
WBC 7.7....LY 33.7....MO 8.8....GR 57.5....LY# 2.6....MO#0.7....GR#4.4....RBC 4.37....HGB 13.8....HCT 41.8....MCV 95.6....MCH 31.7....MCHC 33.1....RDW 14.3...PLT 99....MPV 9.2...
TSH 3.1
Oops i forgot to post the Ref Ranges so here goes...
Sodium 137 - 145
Potassium 3.5 - 5.1
Chloride 98 - 110
Carbon Dioxide 22 - 30
Anion Gap 5 - 15
Creatinine .7 - 1.2
Total Protein 6.3 - 8.2
Albumin 3.5- 5.0
Globulin -----
A/G Ratio 1.0 - 2.5
ALKP 38. - 126.
AST 0. - 45.
ALT 21. - 72.
Total Bili .2 - 1.3
WBC 4.0 11.0
ly 15.0 - 45.0
MO 1.0 - 12.0
GR 43.0 - 74.0
LY#1.2 - 3.4
MO# .01 - 0.6
GR# 1.4 - 6.5
RBC 3.80 - 5.80
HGB 12.0 17.0
HCT 35.0 - 51.0
MCV 82.0 - 98.0
MCH 27.0 - 33.0
MCHC 32.0 36.0
RDW 10.5 - 14.5
PLT 150. - 450.  Mine are very low (99) on my most recent test.
MPV 7.8 - 11.0
The only blood test for thyroid function that's on those reports is TSH, which is a pituitary hormone and is not indicative of actual thyroid hormone levels.  

Can you get your doctor to test Free T3 and Free T4, which are the actual thyroid hormones?  It's important to know their actual levels.  By the way, your TSH is actually higher than it should be, at 3.01.

I agree with goolarra about the vitamins/minerals, that you would be better off to get tested, then take the ones you need.   According to the Vitamin D Council, most adults can take up to 5000 IU/day,   Mega doses are required when severely deficient and should be taken under a doctors supervision.  Vitamin D3 is preferable.  Vitamin D can be toxic if taken in too large doses.

While the RDA for selenium is 70 mcg, it's generally accepted that 200 mcg/day is safe.  I take the 200 mcg.  Selenium has been shown to improve conversion of Free T4, to the usable Free T3.  

Many of us find that we have to keep vitamin B12 at the highest level in order to feel well.

You should try to get your doctor to do the Free T3 and Free T4 tests, as soon as possible.  In addition, I'd suggest that you get antibody tests for Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies (TPOab) and Thyroglobulin Antibodies (TGab) to determine if you have Hashimoto's Thyroiditis.  
I called my DR. and made an appt this thursday to find out the above info. So technically, should i even be on the 100MCG LEVOTHYROXINE (generic for synthroid) ? I find it very disturbing that my DR. didnt even do the needed tests. Also does the tests above indicate at anytime that i would need or consider a bone marrow test?
ALSO one major symptom ive had for at least 10 yrs was i was always cold. In 80 - 90 deg weather, youd always see me in a sweater. It was always so very cold to me
"So technically, should i even be on the 100MCG LEVOTHYROXINE" ... Yes, I think so, because even though your doctor didn't order all of the right tests, the one TSH of 32 indicates that you were quite hypo, at one time, and it's probably the levo that's keeping your levels in check, now, though at 3.1, it's still higher than what AACE recommends, which is 3.0.

What really makes the difference is what your actual hormone levels are. Since you are taking a T4 med, we need to know if you are adequately converting the T4, to the usable T3; that's why we need to know what the Free T3 and Free T4 levels are.

It's also helpful to know if your have Hashimoto's, because if you do, your thyroid function will continue to decline, so you will probably need periodic adjustments in your medication to keep up with that decline.

Being cold is a classic example of hypo.

"I find it very disturbing that my DR. didnt even do the needed tests".  TSH is the "gold standard" for thyroid tests and many doctors believe the TSH test will tell them everything they need to know, which is totally incorrect.  For many of us TSH does not reflect actual thyroid hormone levels; I'm a classic example - my TSH has been < 0.01 for over 5 years and I've not been hyper since I've been on thyroid replacement.

Many doctors, also, don't see a need to do antibody tests; since Hashimoto's is the #1 cause of hypothyroidism in the developed world, they just take it for granted that someone who is hypo, has Hashimoto's.

Additionally, some doctors fail to see the relationship between vitamin deficiency symptoms and thyroid symptoms.
what is a good (Mg) daily amount to start with...
D or D3
Thanks Barb, Goolarra and to all of you :)
  Ok, went to the Dr. This morning and my TSH level is now 4.4. Was tested for B12 and that was fine. I wont know my T tests results for a day or so as they need to have the hospital run that.
  My platelets are still low and if they aren't up when i go back at the end of January, they will do a bone marrow to see if that tests fine. If so, something in my body is eating away at my  platelets  for some reason. If the bone marrow shows i am not producing what it should, she said something about leukemia. So i am a little worried.
  Also was asking about the "Hashimoto's Thyroiditis". My Dr. said that if it started out LOW then they would have tested for that but my thyroid level was REALLY high so that's not an issue.
  Today she did say something about "ITP", so i am gonna do some research on that.
She also says i am Bi-polar. My leg is always hopping up and down, even in my sleep my foot wiggles back and forth, says my wife. I didnt want to get on prescription meds so i decided to try a little marijuana. I dont abuse it by any means, just a little and it calms me down.
  I also still done have the "VOLUME" which i talked about above in part 2 of my original comment. I want to ask about it but its a She Dr. Not sure how to bring it up without sounding like a complete and total idiot. I hear "ZINC" helps but in my opinion, if its low like its been, i feel there is something wrong and "ZINC", although it might help, i want to know why i am like i am. Maybe this LEVOTHYROXINE ***** up all the liquid in my body and urinate it out?
As stated above, i am not sure the proper dosage of Magnesium, Selenuim, zinc and D or D3 and what its for and if you can overdose on anything. The Dr. didnt tell me either way and again, did say they tested on my B12 and it was fine.
I know my wife had cervical cancer of an on again for awhile, shes now over it but maybe something hit me for all this to occur
Not sure what happened to the **** part above but "SOAK".
Hello again,

  I went in and they did more blood work with a TSH of 4.4. Aparently, yet again, they didnt order the T3 and T4 tests. Sighs, this is what i went in there for the other day. So they called me back and gave me a reason for not doing the T tests. Per the nurse, since my thyroid level is now normal, both the T test would be fine. I told them I would go elsewhere and get my tests done so i know what the true results for ALL are.
Are they correct that since my thyroid is normal that my T's will also show good or should i go elsewhere?
Go elsewhere.  TSH is a screening test at best.  It can be affected by many factors other than FT3 and FT4 levels.  Also, AACE recommended several years ago that TSH range be adjusted to 0.3-3.0.  According to that range, you are hypo.  You can order these test online without a doctor's order.  Members have had very good luck with healthcheckusa, but there are a number to choose from.  Last I looked, TSH, FT3 and FT4 was $85 for all three.  Self ordered tests are, of course, also self pay.  They send you to a local lab for the draw, and then they send the results directly to you.  YOU will then know what your levels actually are.
Thank you GOOLARRA. I check this site every hour or so and HOPING that someone will keep adding to it so i can keep heading in the right direction
Ok i finally got in to see another Dr. My TSH is 8.1, Free T4 = .6, Free T3= 2.6, Protein= 9.2, and a CMT totaling 63. He is sending off blood work to a specialist as to break down the different proteins so we can see which are up and which are down. He also increased my Lev (generic for synthroid) to 125 from its original 100. Since my TSH is up, the 125 should bring it back down. (Yesteday, i took 150 and i didnt notice any jitters or racing hear or anything at all). ALthough just 1 day for that not gonna advance any side effects which could be bad.

As for the sexual issues i stated above, he told me that the thyroid effects a TON of things and that i should just give it time for my body to normalize since its been 6 to 7 yrs at least since my thyroid hasnt worked. I really would like to know though, because of my thyroid, if it would have damaged something in the area which my problem exists. ( i have no idea).

Same thing said for my levels found in my bone marrow. As they keep fluctuating its just a waiting game and i really need not to worry bout LUK or some other bone marrow disease since everything just needs to normalize after so many yrs.
I'm glad you got the increase...your FT3 and FT4 are low.  Go slow...your doctor's right...a 25 mcg increase should be max.  Retest in 4-5 weeks and see what that's done before moving to 150 (you may not need to).

No matter what your symptoms, it takes time for symptoms to resolve.  First, we have to get meds right, then the body has to heal.  Permanent damage is rare.  Patience...
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