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Vitamin D, Iron Levels
Hello guys and gals. I posted here a while back, but I have a new question, thus new post.
I ask that anyone reading, please read the whole thing, as I usually do give as much information as possible.
I finally got to see a new endocrinologist, he seems to be okay. He had me tested for vitamin d, both hashimoto's antibodies. I had him throw in b12 and iron (iron because low iron runs in the family and I've had low mcv, mch, and sometimes mchc with hemoglobin low-normal for years) because I was already there and it's hard to get to my doctors to have blood drawn.
Levels:
Vitamin D -- 4.6 (range: 30 - 100), I have done research on this so I know that 4.6 is SEVERELY low.
B12 -- 296 (range: 242 - 911) Honestly, after research, I believe that the low end of the scale is so low because of pernicious anemia.
Iron -- 23 ( 37 - 170)
TIBC -- 360 (250 -450)
% Saturation, Iron -- 6.4 (15 - 50) I forgot to do ferritin, but % saturation should be helpful in guessing my ferritin is gonna be low, too.
Update on thyroid levels: They are now in the upper third of the range or in the least middle, and this is.. really weird to me as it is much higher than back in april and I don't know of a time when it has been this way. So, for NOW, I am not hypothyroid. I'm not worried about this because of OTHER medical issues that I've had in the mean time may be messing with whatever causes my issues in the first place. Yay for that, right? Also, no, I have never taken medication. Not when I was hypothyroid at 11 with a large multinodular goiter that turned out to not be cancerous, not to stop my thyroid fluctuations that started at about 17, not ever. Not my or my parents' fault, just multiple endo's.
Now, for the questions. Who here has dealt with chronic low vitamin d and/or iron? (b12 not as worried about) Does anyone have any advice on testing I need to do, such as bone scans or density or softness tests etc? Anyone know of any information concerning CHILDREN with hypothyroidism and how it will effect the body if untreated into adulthood (which, sadly, is my case!)?
I have seen multiple cases of people with thyroid disorders, usually hashimotos, that have issues taking vitamin d. I saw one case where a woman reported she was taking 50k iu daily and still low!
I was stuck on 50k iu of d2 for 8 weeks, with 50k iu every two weeks for three. I am now on the 2nd week after the 8 weeks, almost to the wednesday where I will take my medication, and my shaking and muscle twitches are coming back. After MORE research, I believe this to have been a severely .. hopeful amount and bare minimum. Not fun! SO! I have called both regular doctor AND endo about this. In the mean time, any research, information, what have you, is INCREDIBLY welcome. Do not worry about overloading me, or giving too little, all information is welcome. I ask here because of the similarities and issues that iron, vitamin d, and thyroid have as well as their correlations. If anyone knows of a better place to post (I did check other forums, didn't see any regular posting places), I would gladly post there. Thank you!
I ask that anyone reading, please read the whole thing, as I usually do give as much information as possible.
I finally got to see a new endocrinologist, he seems to be okay. He had me tested for vitamin d, both hashimoto's antibodies. I had him throw in b12 and iron (iron because low iron runs in the family and I've had low mcv, mch, and sometimes mchc with hemoglobin low-normal for years) because I was already there and it's hard to get to my doctors to have blood drawn.
Levels:
Vitamin D -- 4.6 (range: 30 - 100), I have done research on this so I know that 4.6 is SEVERELY low.
B12 -- 296 (range: 242 - 911) Honestly, after research, I believe that the low end of the scale is so low because of pernicious anemia.
Iron -- 23 ( 37 - 170)
TIBC -- 360 (250 -450)
% Saturation, Iron -- 6.4 (15 - 50) I forgot to do ferritin, but % saturation should be helpful in guessing my ferritin is gonna be low, too.
Update on thyroid levels: They are now in the upper third of the range or in the least middle, and this is.. really weird to me as it is much higher than back in april and I don't know of a time when it has been this way. So, for NOW, I am not hypothyroid. I'm not worried about this because of OTHER medical issues that I've had in the mean time may be messing with whatever causes my issues in the first place. Yay for that, right? Also, no, I have never taken medication. Not when I was hypothyroid at 11 with a large multinodular goiter that turned out to not be cancerous, not to stop my thyroid fluctuations that started at about 17, not ever. Not my or my parents' fault, just multiple endo's.
Now, for the questions. Who here has dealt with chronic low vitamin d and/or iron? (b12 not as worried about) Does anyone have any advice on testing I need to do, such as bone scans or density or softness tests etc? Anyone know of any information concerning CHILDREN with hypothyroidism and how it will effect the body if untreated into adulthood (which, sadly, is my case!)?
I have seen multiple cases of people with thyroid disorders, usually hashimotos, that have issues taking vitamin d. I saw one case where a woman reported she was taking 50k iu daily and still low!
I was stuck on 50k iu of d2 for 8 weeks, with 50k iu every two weeks for three. I am now on the 2nd week after the 8 weeks, almost to the wednesday where I will take my medication, and my shaking and muscle twitches are coming back. After MORE research, I believe this to have been a severely .. hopeful amount and bare minimum. Not fun! SO! I have called both regular doctor AND endo about this. In the mean time, any research, information, what have you, is INCREDIBLY welcome. Do not worry about overloading me, or giving too little, all information is welcome. I ask here because of the similarities and issues that iron, vitamin d, and thyroid have as well as their correlations. If anyone knows of a better place to post (I did check other forums, didn't see any regular posting places), I would gladly post there. Thank you!
Well you can under and over produce stomach acid so high and low stomach acid definition can be used for this too. I just go by pH levels which affect digestion. Either way, it sounds more like your hiatus hernia is causing issues. Probably confused everyone by now including myself. :P
The weird part about my damage, is that it is all caused by the acid. I had absolutely no ulcers, abscesses, what have you. I also do not have barret's esophagus, They did take a picture of my sphincter, so it definitely looks sphinctery and not stretched. I only have damage from the hiatal hernia, which seems to run in the family as I have a cousin that is very healthy that was told she is at risk for.
Sorry about the confusion, I understand what you mean now.
Load me up on any info you want to send me. I will read it all.
Sorry about the confusion, I understand what you mean now.
Load me up on any info you want to send me. I will read it all.
High or low stomach acid actually doesn't mean the quantity of acid in the stomach but the pH levels. The pH ranges from 0 (extreme acidic) to 14 (extreme alkaline). 7 is neutral.
Many essential nutrients including vitamin B12, iron, calcium, folic acid, zinc and vitamin C are all poorly absorbed when stomach acid is low (this means pH is higher than it should be). There are many reasons for low stomach acid such as aging, hypothyroidism, zinc deficiency, antacids, acid blockers to name a few.
The Lower Esophageal Sphincter (LES) is the muscle flap above the stomach that keeps food, acids and gases in the stomach. The LES initiates closure when pH drops under 3 (this is the acidic range) but the LES will remains open if pH is higher (low stomach acid) and stomach acid can then spill into the esophagus.
Research has shown hyperchlorida (high stomach acid) is quite rare. Excessive acid is usually linked to H Pylori bacteria (this bacteria can also cause low stomach acid) or an uncommon condition called Zollinger-Ellison Syndrome.
Of course there are other issues with pressure against the LES like a hiatus hernia or pregnancy. Digestive enzyme supplements are highly recommended with these conditions to help prevent reflux. I'll send you some info on this.
Many essential nutrients including vitamin B12, iron, calcium, folic acid, zinc and vitamin C are all poorly absorbed when stomach acid is low (this means pH is higher than it should be). There are many reasons for low stomach acid such as aging, hypothyroidism, zinc deficiency, antacids, acid blockers to name a few.
The Lower Esophageal Sphincter (LES) is the muscle flap above the stomach that keeps food, acids and gases in the stomach. The LES initiates closure when pH drops under 3 (this is the acidic range) but the LES will remains open if pH is higher (low stomach acid) and stomach acid can then spill into the esophagus.
Research has shown hyperchlorida (high stomach acid) is quite rare. Excessive acid is usually linked to H Pylori bacteria (this bacteria can also cause low stomach acid) or an uncommon condition called Zollinger-Ellison Syndrome.
Of course there are other issues with pressure against the LES like a hiatus hernia or pregnancy. Digestive enzyme supplements are highly recommended with these conditions to help prevent reflux. I'll send you some info on this.
Thank you so much!
Honestly, gonna be starting on as many vitamins and minerals as possible. I called my regular doctor's office and checked out how much tests such as all b vitamins, c, a, and both ds are gonna be and wowza. Even with insurance, far too much. I DO have vitamin a deficiency. When I was younger, I had bumps on my thighs and arms. I still have very light spots from them, and they are very lightly raised. I appreciate the info.
As for my stomach, I actually make too much stomach acid. I have a hiatal hernia and during my endoscopy my stomach was about 3/4 full of acid. I have such bad esophagus damage that the entire thing is dark pink, I did not realize how bad this was because there are no splotches. Anywhere. I thought that was the regular color of the throat until I saw that nope, it's not. I could not find any pictures online of as badly damaged as mine is. The doctor doing my endoscopy tested me for stomach cancer and got the results to me within a half hour. This is another reason I am changing doctors. This was at 17, and I am now 23, I have not had another endoscopy since. I cannot get him to stop prescribing omeprazole at me, which does not work, in any form (purple pill, omeprazole + baking soda, it by itself), so I have relied on tums this entire time. I get far more calcium than I should, and thus, I should be high. I am not. I am either mid range or just below normal low. Despite calcium being unreliable and fluctuatey, it still, due my constant and chronic tums taking, should not be as it is if I am absorbing it correctly.
Honestly, gonna be starting on as many vitamins and minerals as possible. I called my regular doctor's office and checked out how much tests such as all b vitamins, c, a, and both ds are gonna be and wowza. Even with insurance, far too much. I DO have vitamin a deficiency. When I was younger, I had bumps on my thighs and arms. I still have very light spots from them, and they are very lightly raised. I appreciate the info.
As for my stomach, I actually make too much stomach acid. I have a hiatal hernia and during my endoscopy my stomach was about 3/4 full of acid. I have such bad esophagus damage that the entire thing is dark pink, I did not realize how bad this was because there are no splotches. Anywhere. I thought that was the regular color of the throat until I saw that nope, it's not. I could not find any pictures online of as badly damaged as mine is. The doctor doing my endoscopy tested me for stomach cancer and got the results to me within a half hour. This is another reason I am changing doctors. This was at 17, and I am now 23, I have not had another endoscopy since. I cannot get him to stop prescribing omeprazole at me, which does not work, in any form (purple pill, omeprazole + baking soda, it by itself), so I have relied on tums this entire time. I get far more calcium than I should, and thus, I should be high. I am not. I am either mid range or just below normal low. Despite calcium being unreliable and fluctuatey, it still, due my constant and chronic tums taking, should not be as it is if I am absorbing it correctly.
The sublingual form directly enters the bloodstream via capillaries under the tongue within 60 seconds. I use sublingual B12 spray for my autoimmune pernicious anaemia. Good stuff. :)
Delivery System / Rate of Absorption*
Pill or tablet - 10%
Capsule - 20%
Gel Cap - 30%
Transdermal Patch - 45%
Sublingual Liquid - 50%
Intramuscular Injection - 90%
Intraoral or Sublingual Spray - 95%
Intravenous Injection - 100%
*Source: Physicians' Desk Reference, NPPDR No. 18:676, 1997
Co factors for vitamin D absorption are magnesium (most important), vitamin K, vitamin A, zinc, boron. Severe magnesium deficiency is a noted cause of vitamin D resistance.
The body uses magnesium in particular to convert vitamin D to active vitamin D which is why magnesium deficiency is a possible side effect of vitamin D supplementation. The symptoms of deficiency are too numerous to mention but includes muscle twitches/cramps, anxiety, insomnia, constipation, acid reflux to name a few.
There are two forms of Iron: heme and non-heme iron. Heme iron is found only in meat, fish and poultry and is absorbed much more easily than non-heme iron. Non-heme iron found in plants and dietary supplements is not so well absorbed. Vitamins C, vitamin B12, folate, zinc helps non-heme iron absorption.
Also check your stomach pH levels. Low stomach acid is a common reason for poor nutrient absorption. Try out the baking soda test (i posted this on another answer a while back)... :)
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Vitamins--Supplements/vitamin-mineral-absorption-and-anxiety/show/1723371
Delivery System / Rate of Absorption*
Pill or tablet - 10%
Capsule - 20%
Gel Cap - 30%
Transdermal Patch - 45%
Sublingual Liquid - 50%
Intramuscular Injection - 90%
Intraoral or Sublingual Spray - 95%
Intravenous Injection - 100%
*Source: Physicians' Desk Reference, NPPDR No. 18:676, 1997
Co factors for vitamin D absorption are magnesium (most important), vitamin K, vitamin A, zinc, boron. Severe magnesium deficiency is a noted cause of vitamin D resistance.
The body uses magnesium in particular to convert vitamin D to active vitamin D which is why magnesium deficiency is a possible side effect of vitamin D supplementation. The symptoms of deficiency are too numerous to mention but includes muscle twitches/cramps, anxiety, insomnia, constipation, acid reflux to name a few.
There are two forms of Iron: heme and non-heme iron. Heme iron is found only in meat, fish and poultry and is absorbed much more easily than non-heme iron. Non-heme iron found in plants and dietary supplements is not so well absorbed. Vitamins C, vitamin B12, folate, zinc helps non-heme iron absorption.
Also check your stomach pH levels. Low stomach acid is a common reason for poor nutrient absorption. Try out the baking soda test (i posted this on another answer a while back)... :)
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Vitamins--Supplements/vitamin-mineral-absorption-and-anxiety/show/1723371
Oh! And I started a liquid b complex picked up earlier today. I wasn't expecting such a quick reaction but by golly that got into my bloodstream quick from being held under tongue and then swallowed. I made sure to go for a liquid because of my digestive and acid reflux issues. I have been having cramping and such, most notably in my thighs and back, and thighs were gone within an hour. I had tingles down my arms, even, and I hadn't realized they were effected. I had to go research if it was just it quitting like it does sometimes or if it really can effect that quickly. Sure can!
Yup to both of you!! I appreciate the information and the concern.
I have used thyroid-info and the doctor review sites to try and find new doctors. My current endo I made sure to go see because of a teacher I had, as well as I'm going to see the ENT she went to see. I have an appointment with one of the dudes (well, his nurse practitioner he trained) on that thyroid-info list on the 24th of next month, right after my ENT appointment, with the 15th being my new and updated thyroid ultrasound, contacted my current regular doctor about having some new vitamin d tests to see how my levels are, and I have contacted a local doctor that a paramedic friend said was doing well. I will be sure to update you, gimel, on how it goes. Sadly, I was discussing it with my mother, and the dude I made an appointment to see has a reputation of being a "quack", which, I am happy about! "Quack"s are usually people that are either absolutely horrible or think outside the box. Good enough for me to try.
I have used thyroid-info and the doctor review sites to try and find new doctors. My current endo I made sure to go see because of a teacher I had, as well as I'm going to see the ENT she went to see. I have an appointment with one of the dudes (well, his nurse practitioner he trained) on that thyroid-info list on the 24th of next month, right after my ENT appointment, with the 15th being my new and updated thyroid ultrasound, contacted my current regular doctor about having some new vitamin d tests to see how my levels are, and I have contacted a local doctor that a paramedic friend said was doing well. I will be sure to update you, gimel, on how it goes. Sadly, I was discussing it with my mother, and the dude I made an appointment to see has a reputation of being a "quack", which, I am happy about! "Quack"s are usually people that are either absolutely horrible or think outside the box. Good enough for me to try.
For over 4 years, I have been collecting names of doctors recommended by fellow members, so that I can help other members find good thyroid doctors. Unfortunately I don't have anyone for West Virginia. The best I have to offer right now is this link to Top Thyroid Doctors in WV. The doctors are listed by area. Reading through the patient reviews helps identify the best prospects. This is not an infallible source, but experience has shown it to be better than starting from ground zero trying to find a good thyroid doctor and going through repeated trial and error situations. Hope there is one in your area.
http://www.thyroid-info.com/topdrs/westvirginia.htm
http://www.thyroid-info.com/topdrs/westvirginia.htm
I should have mentioned, other Magnesium supplements on the market do nothing for you, such as Magnesium oxide. Magnesium Glycinate is one of the good ones, you also have to watch for the liquid or gel capsules, some contain Soy, Mag. Glycinate comes in 400mg, I take two per day.
I think we all have been through the battle with MD's that you are going through, they all stick like glue to the TSH'itis and have tunnel vision with ranges, they don't care about symptoms, If your in range then anything else you say is BS or "Its all in your head" I have the same problem here in St. George, UT I was lucky enough to find an Internal Medicine MD, that is great with thyroid, the first thing she asks is "How do you feel" and tests Free T3 and Free T4 on every lab. I wish you luck on your search, don't get stuck on Endo's try Internal Med MD's also. Take Care, Best Regards FTB4
I think we all have been through the battle with MD's that you are going through, they all stick like glue to the TSH'itis and have tunnel vision with ranges, they don't care about symptoms, If your in range then anything else you say is BS or "Its all in your head" I have the same problem here in St. George, UT I was lucky enough to find an Internal Medicine MD, that is great with thyroid, the first thing she asks is "How do you feel" and tests Free T3 and Free T4 on every lab. I wish you luck on your search, don't get stuck on Endo's try Internal Med MD's also. Take Care, Best Regards FTB4
Thank you for your response. :)
I am concerned about the b12, but in researching I've learned I pretty much can take the pill and it will help, so I'm not as concerned. I realize that 290~ is actually pretty dang low, so while not concerned, it does mean I shall fix it.
I will be starting on magnesium - I have been TRYING to be able to get in to have as many vitamin and mineral tests done as possible, because I would like to show that I'm low beforehand. I have had a HORRID time with doctors not listening, and I'm even searching for a new regular doctor. Dude flat out told me last time I saw him there was nothing wrong with me with a tsh of 0.6 (.34 - 4.82) and ft4 of 0.7 (0.6 - 1.2) with a history of being hypothyroid in the past. This, I believe, is because the endo I went to see did not know a thing and I don't think liked me arguing with him. The dude didn't even know what hashimoto's was. NOT a joke. I gawked. He was also one of the guys that believes once in normal ranges, medication stops. It creeped me out. I believe he panned me to my regular doctor. New endo is not as bad but I believe I won't be able to stay with him because with my vitamin d deficiency he not once asked about my calcium (and albumin, which can effect calcium) or magnesium levels, nor has he discussed a follow up test or what I should take on a regular basis afterwards. I did this research on my own, and despite him knowing I do research, he should discuss it with me. WV is a very hard state to find good doctors in, it seems. Running out of options, though. Next time I see him, I'm going to be bringing a crapload of printed out articles and abstracts from other doctors.
I am concerned about the b12, but in researching I've learned I pretty much can take the pill and it will help, so I'm not as concerned. I realize that 290~ is actually pretty dang low, so while not concerned, it does mean I shall fix it.
I will be starting on magnesium - I have been TRYING to be able to get in to have as many vitamin and mineral tests done as possible, because I would like to show that I'm low beforehand. I have had a HORRID time with doctors not listening, and I'm even searching for a new regular doctor. Dude flat out told me last time I saw him there was nothing wrong with me with a tsh of 0.6 (.34 - 4.82) and ft4 of 0.7 (0.6 - 1.2) with a history of being hypothyroid in the past. This, I believe, is because the endo I went to see did not know a thing and I don't think liked me arguing with him. The dude didn't even know what hashimoto's was. NOT a joke. I gawked. He was also one of the guys that believes once in normal ranges, medication stops. It creeped me out. I believe he panned me to my regular doctor. New endo is not as bad but I believe I won't be able to stay with him because with my vitamin d deficiency he not once asked about my calcium (and albumin, which can effect calcium) or magnesium levels, nor has he discussed a follow up test or what I should take on a regular basis afterwards. I did this research on my own, and despite him knowing I do research, he should discuss it with me. WV is a very hard state to find good doctors in, it seems. Running out of options, though. Next time I see him, I'm going to be bringing a crapload of printed out articles and abstracts from other doctors.
I think most os memebers here have dwalt with Vitamin D deficiency, I have for sure, and my symptoms were muscl and joint pain, I was advised to take supplements, The now reccomend at least 1000 mg pd of Vitamin D, and 2,000 per day if over 60. I would also be concerned about Low Vitamin B12, as it can cause a number os serious health problems, it can lead to stripping the coating from your nerves called the Myelin Sheath, this condition can reduce range of motion in the limbs and also severe neuropathy pain, I know, because I have the same condition now,although my issues are not caused by Vitamin B12 deficiency, it is caused one of many causes of this condition. When I had the Vitamin D deficiency, I was advised from members here to take supplements and Magnesium Glycinate with the D supplement, it made a world of difference at that time. Best Regards FTB4
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