Kidney Stones

Does anyone have any experience with Kidney stones?  My 10 year old daughter was diagnosed with having 2 kidney stones almost 2 weeks ago.  She had been very sick on/off for 2 weeks.  Throwing up one day, stomach pain for several days, just not feeling well.  Then had blood in urine.  Finally after she was in excruciating pain a x-ray was done and they found 2 kidney stones in right kidney.  They had me give her pain meds for 2 days and the dr's figured they passed.  Since then had a couple days that she was in a little pain.  Then today started having really bad pain again, and more bleeding in urine. We're hoping they pass this time, and we'll be done with this.  We don't have a family history of these, and follow up with the dr. next week.  Any advice would be appreciated.  Thanks!

[myproblem]

I don't know if they can do lithotripsy on a child, but if they can, I'd try to get them to do that. Lithotripsy is an outpatient procedure where soundwaves are used to break the stones into smaller pieces so they can pass. It is non-invasive, and recovery time is a few days to a week. Usually pain is only severe when the stone is moving. If she drinks a lot of fluids, the pain is probably worse, and if she's dehydrated, it probably improves a little because there is less flow of fluid trying to push the stone out. If the Dr. really feels she can pass it on her own you could push fluids, and give her lots of pain meds. Otherwise, I'd give her a little less than normal to drink. I speak from too much personal experience. Did they tell you the size of the stone? Also, did they consider a cause? Pediatric kidney stones aren't that common, and a cause is usually able to be identified. After she has recovered, a 24 hour urinalysis would be wise. Often the cause is metabolic, and further occurences can possibly be avoided. DO NOT let her have any caffeine, and NO sodas. Plain water is best for now, not cranberry juice. anything acidic will irritate the urinary system more. Caffeine causes stones. If I can help you any more, just let me know.

[AMC5]

To answer a few more of your questions....  My daughter is 10.  We were supposed to follow up next week with the dr. and at that time they might do bloodwork to try to figure out why she got them.  No family history of kidney stones.  I'm hoping they pass and not "settle" somewhere like they have the past 2 weeks since they were diagnosed.  She was very sick just over a week before she was diagnosed, and they don't know if she was sick from the kidney stones,or if she had the stomach flu,and getting dehydrated caused the kidney stones.  However she never really got too "dehydrated" when she was so sick.  She did vomit alot, but was still having plenty of urine.  So who knows. Any experience on how long these things take to pass?  Thanks again.

[AMC5]

Thank you for your response.  They said the stones are 2-3mm and should pass on there own.  She has thrown up a couple times tonight and we are giving pain meds and trying to push the fluids.  Hoping this ends soon.

[bobbiesbonitababushka]

I have kidney stones about once a year.  I had several of my stones analysed and they were made up of calcium.  Stones do run in my family, but I know that is not always the case.  I have been living with these things for about 10 years.  My doctor told me that I am just a stone former, and that I just need to drink lots of water for the rest of my life.  If you have never had a kidney stone, then there is no way that you will ever understand the kind of pain it causes.  I can't even imagine going through that as a child.  The throwing up is more than likely from the pain.  Every single stone I have had has ended me up in the emergency room.  The first stone I had, I literally thought I was dying,I had never really heard about them before.  My mother took me to ER and the admitting nurse handed me a kidney shaped bowl and told me to throw up in it.  I told her that I didn't  have to throw up and she said "You will", boy was she right.  The doctor I had said that she gave birth to twins and has also had a kidney stone and she said that if given a choice she would go through the birth again.  She tried flushing the stone out with an iv solution.  It didn't work, so they gave me some dilaudids and sent me home, for a week I was in pain because I did not listen to my doctor, I did not drink lots of water (I hate water) So my mother made me a gallon of lemonade, and I drank every bit of it and the next morning I gave birth to a little brown stone.  It was hard to believe a stone 1/2 the size of a pea could cause me to think I was dying.  Since then I have had 11 moe and have kept them all.  Sorry this was so long I hope it helps some.

[AMC5]

Thank you so much for your input.  It definately helps to hear what others have been through.  I've never had them, but I can tell my child is in terrible pain.  She gets the pain on/off.  The not knowing when it'll pass is tough.  She was in pain, then fine for about 1 1/2 weeks.  Then it started all over again.  The Dr. said might do Ultrasound to see where they are.  For now it is just wait and see.....  And drink plenty of fluids.  Which is hard considering she is dizzy and nauseas.  But we're doing our best. Dr. said try 3-4 oz an hour.  Was your pain more as the stones were moving in your body, or when you actually passed the stone?  Thanks for your input.

[bobbiesbonitababushka]

Wow!!! I just wrote you another long comment and then my computer went down.  I was so upset.  But anyway.... the pain comes from the stone actually moving through because the stone(s) have jagged edges.  When it actually passes, it is wonderful (as long as they aren't too big)  I have a very good friend that is a nurse and I told her about your daughter.  She says that there is no reason your daughter should be going through this this long.  Her doctor should not wait on the ultra sound if he cant get them to pass.  I never had on and off pain like that, either because the dr. got it passed for me or I was on pain meds until it did pass.  She has got to drink.  If she can't keep anything down, then ask her doctor about Promethazine.  Also over the counter for nausea is Emotrol.  The cherry flavor tastes sooooo good.  You may have to ask the pharmacist for it.  But it works good.  Also my friend said to definitely get the stone analyzed once it passes, because it could be a number of things causing her to form them.  Does she take vitamins?  If so then sometimes too much calcium without magnesium can cause them.  And if you have well water that can also be a source too.  Check it out, and make her doctor take her pain away.  Let us know whats going on.

[AMC5]

The support here is great!  Thank you so much!  I just talked with her dr. and they are having us come in for another urine, and go for another xray.  We'll see what it shows.  She isn't having pain right now, just nauseas and dizzy from her pain meds.  So we've switched to Motrin for pain instead of Tylenol with codeine.  If this isn't the kidney stones, I'm scared to think what else could cause this?  The dr. seems to be very puzzled by this.  I just don't think the stones passed a couple weeks ago, when the dr. seemed to think they did.  I think she must have passed a different stone before her xray 2 weeks ago.  And now these are on the move again.   I am using a strainer to watch for them.  But hear they can be VERY small.  Hoping they don't go through the strainer, so we know if they passed.  I am checking in the toilet as well each time though. Thanks again for your help.  I'll keep you updated....

[AMC5]

My daughter's xray didn't show the stones anymore.  Her urine had alot of blood.  They consulted with a pediatric specialist who thinks it must be in the urethra.  Could do CT scan to confirm, but not neccessary at this point.  Going to wait and watch and see if she passes it.  She hasn't yet.  I'm wondering if it could get stuck in the urethra? I've read it could, and could cause urine obstruction.  Not sure if that means total urine obstruction, where she couldn't go at all or not.  She is having burning with urination.  We are so ready for this to be over!!!!  Said they are sending her urine off to ck calcium levels, to see if she needs to be on medications to prevent these.  Any input would be appreciated! Thanks.

[myproblem]

The burning with urination could be from the stone being in the urethra. It scratches the inside of the urethra as it moves, and irritates it. However, just to be safe she should be checked for  a urinary tract infection. I had a severe infection after one of my stones, and it caused me extreme pain in my kidneys. It was as bad as the stone. Incedentally, I had my last major stone 4 months after giving birth to my daughter. I would much rather give birth with no meds than have a kidney stone. As for the stones I've passed at home, I had a scratchy feeling in my urethra for a few days before passing them. Perhaps the end is near for your daughter. Make sure to get the 24 hour urinalysis once she has recovered. This is really important so you can trace the cause, and prevent them in the future. Are you using a strainer provided by the hospital? If not, a re-usable metal mesh Coffee strainer is very good because the mesh is so fine. Many other kitchen strainers are not fine enough.

[AMC5]

Still waiting for her to pass the stones.  We aren't using a strainer provided by the dr. or hospital.  They told us to just go buy one.  We tried to find the finest one we could.  But still check the toilet each time as well.  She is still having bleeding on/off with urination.  Feels achy all over, but no severe stomach pains.  Just waiting.  The dr. said they were sending off her last urine culture to see if high in calcium and if she needs to be on meds to prevent this.  How often do you get kidney stones?  Can you try to prevent them with foods, meds, etc.....?  How long did your episodes last, from when you found out you had them, until they passed?  Thanks for the input you have given.  It helps to talk with someone who has been through this.  People don't realize what a pain these are.  Not only dealing with the literal "pain" but also the not knowing when they'll pass, or when another one will come, or when you'll be in severe pain again!!!!  I sure hope she doesn't go through this again.  Thanks again.

[myproblem]

I get little stones a few times a year, but they don't bother me a whole lot. I get intermittent pain, like knives in my kidneys sometimes, but I've learned to work through it most of the time. I have had at least four stones that were around
7-10mm each. Three of them required lithotripsy. One broke apar on it's own, but was still horrible. Depending on the type of stones, and the 24 hour urine collection, many can be controlled or prevented with dietary changes or medication. No matter the analysis, drinking a lot of water is key. What part of the country do you live in? Some areas of the country have a higher incidence of stones because high mineral content in the soil or water. Also caffeine is a dangerous contributor because it affects your body's ability to stay hydrated. Caffeine free sodas are okay occasionally, but too much will cause dehydration.

[AMC5]

Thank you so much for checking this, and responding.  It is really good to hear this from someone who experienced this.  Much more informative than just reading information online.  Although I've learned alot about kidney stones over the past few weeks!  My daughter isn't feeling well today.  Very nauseaus and just feels ick!  We're hoping the other passes soon.  Thanks again for your input!

[myproblem]

I have had more than one at a time. If the biggest one was blocking the way, the rest follow soon after. For me this has generally been the case, and within a day or two I'm feeling like myself again. If the other one broke up, you should still have seen gravel or something like fine sand in the strainer. It's probably almost over, and it's good to know that her urethra is not blocked. Push a lot of water today, and see where it gets you.

[AMC5]

My daughter passed 1 of her kidney stones last night!  We were so glad.  They saw 2 stones on her first x-ray.  When you've had stones, have you ever had more than 1? And if so, do you pass them fairly close together?  Before this passed the dr. was concerned they might be stuck in urethra.  We're just wondering if the other will pass, or could if have broken up and already passed?  I know we'll just have to wait and see.  And see how she feels over the next few days.  Any advice?  Thanks!

[AMC5]

The dr. tested my daughter's urine (not a 24hr) just one of the samples she left last week, and said the calcium was fine.  So no restricted diet, or meds.  Said this hopefully was just a fluke?!?!  While I'm glad her test came back normal, I am a little nervous of her getting them again.  Especially since she had at least 2.  I feel she had more because of the extreme pain she had before ever having the xrays, I feel she passed one before the xrays were ever done.  They said no further work up needed at this time, no bloodwork, no testing the stone, nothing.  My daughter still hasn't passed the other stone.  However the last few times she's gone to the bathroom she can feel it moving around.  Very odd feeling she says, very low.  Hoping it comes out sooner than later!  Any input from your experiences?  Could this of been a fluke? I'll definately keep her pushing the liquids, forever, as well as my other 3 children.  We live in Arizona, very hot!  It's not hot right now, but I'm going to make sure all my kids push the liquids from now on!!!!  Any advice?

[myproblem]

I totally disagree with the Dr. that the stone should not be tested. Is she seeing  urologist? If they want to call it a fluke, they need to prove it by ruling out other causes. It is not that much work or expense involved in testing the stone. If I were you, I wouldn't take no for an answer. (I'm a mother too, and I'd have my claws out if they didn't want to research the cause of so much agony.)The 24 hour urine can show a lot more that one little cup, because it shows how her metabolism is working over a whole day. You should trust your instincts. If anything, you will find peace of mind if the Dr.'s are proven right. I would just want proof that it's nothing, rather than finding out down the road that more should have been done. I hope this helps, and that your little girl is better soon.

[AMC5]

I am checking into how much it would cost to have the stone analyzed.  (no insurance) And see if that gives us more information.  She still hasn't passed the other stone.  No more visible blood in urine.  But she does feel it moving sometimes when she goes to the bathroom.  I've read some get larger, if not removed.  I'm just wondering if it doesn't pass, when should we start getting concerned?  We're hoping it passes soon, so we can stop straining every time she goes.  I am going to try to pursue the reason she got these.  I do not want to go through this again.  The week before she was diagnosed with these, she had what we thought was the stomach flu.  And threw up on/off for about 24 hours.  The doctor said she could of gotten kidney stones from getting dehydrated from the stomach flu.  However, the entire time she had the flu, she was urinating at least every 2 hours, and good amounts.  I was keeping track to watch out for her to possibly become dehydrated.  So I knew she wasn't too dehydrated with urinating so much.  Odviously you become somewhat dehydrated throwing up so much, but the dr's told me as long as she was urinating at least 1 time every 8 hours we were fine.  Her stomach was hurting sooooo bad that whole week, even days after she had stopped throwing up.  There is just no way to know if it was the flu, or the start of kidney stones causing her to be so sick.  If it was the flu, and it caused kidney stones, is that something I have to be worried about everytime she has the flu?  I don't know, I just know I don't want to experience another month like we've had.  This has been pretty bad, and don't want her to have this again.  Any thoughts? Thanks!

[myproblem]

For some people (not for me) vomiting is the first real sign of a stone trying to pass. Mine start with back pain, and also abdominal pain, like killer menstrual cramps. It is possible that it wasn't the flu. I don't really know how long a stone takes to form, but I have a hard time believing that it could happen "overnight". I've only ever thrown up with one of my big stones. With the rest of them, I just lost my appetite. Stones can get bigger if they're left alone, but I don't know how fast they growThe fact that you don't have insurance might be why the Dr. was not going to go any further with this. The fact remains that your daughter has been very sick, and you want to make sure she is okay. You should check into any subsidised medical insurance that you can get. Are you in the US? There is medicaid, and then there is a low cost health insurance for children with middle to low income families. In some areas this is called "Healthy Families". Call your local welfare office and ask. I have no idea how much it would cost to get the stone analyzed, and get the tests done without insurance. Money should never stop anyone from getting the best medical care, but I have been in your shoes. Stones in children can be a sign of other problems on the horizon. It would be good to have the peace of mind that something is not brewing inside of her. You don't want to be afraid every time she gets a little pain that she is getting another stone. I hope that this is over for you soon. You are in my prayers every night.

[AMC5]

We are checking into different insurance plans.  Spouse is self-employed, and have been looking into different options.  Just bad timing, to be w/o coverage!  Thanks for all your input.  We are going to pursue this and keep a watch out for the other stone.

[AMC5]

I'm so sorry to hear your son is going through this, and that you and your husband have a history of stones.  It was a horrible thing for my daughter, and we're hoping to be done.  She still only passed 1 of the stones, but they said the other could of broke up into smaller pieces and already passed.  She has had a couple days here and there, where she doesn't feel good, back pain, nauseas, some abdominal pain, and Motrin helps.  She was taking Tylenol with codeine when she was really sick.  My daughter vomited alot when the pain was so bad.  Between the Tylenol with codeine and Motrin luckily we got through it without having to go the ER, but it came close several times.  Keep me posted and let me know how your son does.  Did they say how many he had?  My daughter had 2 show up in the right kidney on her xray, but I'm pretty sure she must of passed one before the xray.  I did talk with a specialist and they agreed with my pediatrician that unless she has another episode there was no need to test the stone, or do any further testing.  Not really sure if I like that or not.  I am keeping the stone, in case we decide to have it tested at some point, or they said if she got more they might compare the stones.  But from every thing I've read, with her being so young, and having multiple stones, the odds of her not ever getting them again are not in her favor.  My pediatrician had thought possibly she got them from being sick a week before we discovered the stones, when she was vomiting for like 24 hours.  However the specialist said they don't form in a weeks time, and that wasn't likely.  And I think she actually was sick with the kidney stones that week, she was having severe abdominal pain that whole week.  So who knows how many stones she actually had!!!!  When did you start getting kidney stones, and how often do you get them?  I've tried to read up as much as I can, to try to be as prepared for my daughter.  I just want to make sure that she doesn't need any dietary restrictions or anything, which is why I would like more follow up.  But for now, we wait and see.

[myproblem]

I'm glad you had the guts to be a little pushy with the ER Dr. I am sure you're right, especially with the family history.

[yrcherub]

Hello! My 9 year old son is trying to pass a kidney stone.  Both my husband and I have them. I know the pain and the worry of when and if the pain will return. We went to the ER on Friday.  They though he was just constipated.  I told them he had thrown up and was in horrible pain this is not constipation. He had an E- ray the doctor said well he is not constipated however, we saw a small calcification where the pain was. She said you might want to follow up on this but, it's probably nothing.  My face went white.  I told her of our family history of stones.  She said OK lets do a cat scan, blood and urine.  She came back and said they saw nothing on the cat-scan and we should still try a clean out for constipation.  I thought for a second and went over to her writing his release form and said this doesn't add up to me.  The huge amount of pain the result of the x-ray the vomiting.  I said what does his urine results look like?  Well, she had forgotten to look at that.  Came back and said blood in his urine at +3.  She told me cat scans don't always show all types of stones.  With the family history, x-ray results and symptoms we could assume its a stone.  I asked her what I should give him if and when the pain returns.  She told me to give him a Tylenol.  I said a Tylenol!  You are speaking to someone who has had kidney stones since high school, a Tylenol is not going to help anything.  So she wrote a script for Tylenol 2. I don't think that will help either. I am very blessed that we live in Maryland.  We go to amazing doctors a Johns Hopkins.  I have left them a message and hope to have him seen asap.  I will let you know what they tell me!  
PS when I have the feeling I think your daughers having my stone is just about ready to pass!!!
Thanks for listening Deb

[SMadden]

A little late on the reply but I thought I'd talk anyways. I have a disorder called cystinuria in which my body produces too much cystine (an amino-acid) which can form cystine stones. Mine are very different from calcium stones as they are almost like glass and lithotripsy will not break them up. My family does not have a history of kidney stones either but since both my mother and father are carriers of the gene, I ended up with the disorder. Of course it's really rare (something like 1:300,000) but it is something I have to live with. You should mention this, although a lot of drs I met with in the er had no idea what I was talking about, but if it is the case then your child may have to go on meds in order to prevent the cystine from forming stones. I have had more than one at a time and all I can say is that water is crucial!!! It helps flush the stones out because if they stay in the kidney the will get bigger. The blood in the urine could be because the stones are jagged and they can scrape the kidneys or the ureters when they move. Definately try to keep your child hydrated because there is a possiblity for a UTI to form within the stone in which case it will have to be surgically removed. I had that problem only my stone blocked the ureter and backed up my right kidney. I came very close to becoming septic (blood poisoning) and had to have a tube inserted into my back to drain my kidney. Whatever you do, DO NOT let up with er doctors. In my experience they don't tend to take kidney stones seriously and they kinda give you the brush off. But the pain can be excrutiating and it can lead to more severe problems. I hope all is well now since it has been over a month since the original post. Good luck to you!

[AMC5]

Thank you for your input.  All is going well, and we are hoping to be done with this.  We are keeping her well hydrated.  Thanks again!