Knee Pain FOR YEARS no doc can diagnose

[ggamron]

I have been to countless docs.  I know my knees have been/are damaged by my high weight.  I had gastric bypass.  Pain in R knee started after the weight loss.  R knee is 3"+ larger than the left ALWAYS.  There is always some pain. When extending my knee there is a popping crunching sound and when there is weight on the leg the sound is worse and hurts a bit.  When sitting in a car/driving for long periods outside of R knee aches horribly. However, the real-magnificent-mind-blowing-make-me-scream pain comes when my lower leg is bent to the left (like crossing legs with r foot on left knee) and I start to lower my R foot to my L foot.  Feels like an atom bomb goes off in the outside of the right knee.  Its like something on the outside of my knee slips and snaps hard (like plucking a tight string) then my leg basically straightens out forcefully (I seem to have no control, it NEEDS to straighten out NOW) and that something that slipped off on the knee snaps back in place where it belongs.  Docs have told me everything from "You're fat" (I weighed 180 at 5'8" at the time) to I'm out of shape.  None seem to think the fall I took pile driving that knee into a tile floor has any impact on the issue.  They tell me X-Rays and MRI say nothing is wrong, even though they have heard the crunching sound.  That by the way has been diagnosed as Osteoarthritis but the diagnoses stops there.  I have been given neurontin for the pain.  It does work but I do need to be awake sometime and that stuff knocks me out.  So here's the deal, what can this be?  Docs don't seem to want to go beyond my weight (if it was weight wouldn't both knees be messing up?) and OA. when I know it's more.  I have OA in the left knee, I know what that feels like, this isn't that.  Any suggestions I can take to the doc would be most appreciated. Thanks!

[jemma116]

I used Litozin, I do not know if it comes in different strengths.  I thought it was all the same.  I have just checked and it does contain Vitamin C.  Vitamin C is OK because it is water soluble and is excreted in the urine.  It is not stored in our bodies like the fat vitamins A and D.

I presume if you went for the 500mg you would probably have to take 1 twice a day or something like that.  With the 1000mg you would probably need to take 1 a day.  I usually work out which is the cheapest way of doing it.

I have also used Celadrin and Celaritis, but again it is quite expensive.
Some people go for the Cod Liver Oil capsules and Omega 3 and 6.  so it its finding what works for you best.

I stopped using it because it was too expensive.  I too will try the cherry stuff though if it works out cheaper, but may try it anyway.  If it works better then I will stick with it.

For the inflammation, if you cannot take prescribed meds (I can't), the other day I applied a lot and I mean a lot, of natural yougurt to my swollen knee and the whole swollen leg, covered it gently with a cloth and slept with it on.  It did help, but it is a bit messy.  

Natural plain yogurt draws out inflammation.  it is also good for sprains and strains, sunburn and to apply directly on to the genital area if there is any thrush or itching.  Good to eat too to help guard against oral thrush.

Last year I caught my foot in a hole in the ground as I stepped backwards.  I could not walk or put any weight on the foot at all.  It was very late and the advice over the phone from the medical people was to get it xrayed immediately.  The only hospital open was about 1 hours drive away which I did not want to be bothered going that far.  So I applied the yogurt, and strapped my foot up.  
The next day hubby took me to get it xrayed and I had to use a wheelchair.  As time passed, the foot was getting better.  By the time I got into xray (which showed no breakage) I was completely fine.  I walked out as if there was nothing wrong.  Great.  Yogurt  hiphip hooray! :)

Hope you get on alright.

[ggamron]

The only rose hips that I can find are mixed with vitamin C.  Is this the right stuff?  There are choices of strength 500 mg and 1000mg which did you use?

[ggamron]

Oh you Big Sissie! lol You may have just given me the best tip I've gotten in years!  I seem to be allergic to all narcotics "the good stuff".  My reactions run the gamut from slight itching to SOMEBODY GET THE CHEESE GRATER!  With various rashes, swelling and blotches.  Ibuprofen and Tylenol both cause bladder spasms which I don't need on top of the other stuff.  My husband is the nuts and twigs eater in our house, lol but I've started coming around.  He told me if I wasn't careful he would feed me saltless tree bark to see if that would work YIKES! But this cherry juice sounds like it will fit the bill for both of us, going to find some now, THANKS A MILLION!  

[jemma116]

LOL :) You have made me laugh.
Thank you for all the info.

[bigsissie]

The cherry capsules can be ordered online I use the NOW brand black cherry extract and they are cheaper online. Also they are an antiinflammatory :) I have OA as well so I do know about that pain its just not in my knee. When I first started I took 2 pills three times a day for the first two weeks to get them built in my system then worked my way down to 2 pills a night. On nights I know I will be doing a lot more than usual the next day I take 3-4. You will also be able to work with it and figure out what dose works for you.
The great thing is they are all natural so they are better for you than chemicals. I prefer the capsules because they are ultra concentrated but when I run out I will drink the juice and whew is it tart lol. Even a handful of dried cherries will work in a pinch. The regular cherries I have no idea on how many you would have to eat lol. Pounds I am sure!  I hope they work for you as well. Please send me a message if you try them and let me know if they work. I have told countless people about them but I figure they think I am one of those you have to go all natural nuts lol. Best wishes, Sissie

[jemma116]

Thank you Sissie.

Any particular brand of cherry juice?  I suppose you would have to eat a lot of cherries to get the same benefit!

Pain is the body's way to signal that something is wrong.  It can be caused through injury or a illnesses.  In my case I have a degenerative bone problem called osteoarthritis which is classed as wear and tear, but it comes on very slowly and gradually over the years.  There are different forms of arthritis, but pain and inflammation and stiffness of the joints and surrounding tendons etc. is found in all forms of arthritis.  Rhumatoid arthritis and Lupus is an autoimmune disorder.

I would like to try that if it works like an anti-inflammatory.  I am not able to take over the counter anti-inflammatory drugs like Ibuprofen because it caused a lot of a different type of pain in my legs and they were very swollen and red, so I had to stop taking the Ibuprofen.  My doctor said that it can cause oedema (swelling).

Some years ago I tried Rosehip capsules and they did work too.  My arthritis was not so bad then and they are quite expensive to buy.

Unfortunately, I have osteoarthritis which is a generative bone disease when the cartilage between the bones shrinks, so bone knocks on bone.  I have quite a lot of osteoarthrities in most of my joints, including my neck and lower back.  Which gives me pins and needles in my hands and down my legs right down to my feet with a lot of pain down the bones in the legs, the right leg and knee being the worst at the moment.  Doctor said this was referrred pain from the arthirits in my lower back.

I did hear of ordinary cherries being good, but not heard about the juice and didn't know about cherry capsules.  

I am taking Celadrin, but am not having any benefit this time round.  
But thanks Sissie, I will look into it further and probably order some cherry capsules.  

I thought you said you "don't know much about the pain or what can cause it".  I have had to read your message a few times, and you too (poor thing) have arthritis in your back.  

Thanks again

best wishes

[bigsissie]

I don't know much about the pain or what can cause it. I do agree with jemma. There is something the two of you may not know of and please bear with me. Cherry juice in either capsules or concentrated form. I have arthritis in my back and was told about it by a family member. This same family member has had multiple surgeries on her knee and was told with her last one that there was no getting better for her she was at the best she could ever get. Well her therapist sent her to a acupuncturist who told her about the cherry juice. She walked into her doctors office unaided three weeks after starting the cherry juice. Her surgeon told her she would always need a cane at the very least. When she told me I was skeptical and it took me about a year before I tried it. She was not fibbing lol. It works wonders. As a matter of fact it works better for me than anything I was prescribed. I wish you both the best. Best wishes, Sissie

[jemma116]

Sorry to hear of your problem.  I am in a similar situtation in that my right knee is in agony and that affects the whole leg and puts a strain on my hips and feet.   I have osteoarthritis in both knees, but the right one is much worse. I do not get any relief from painkillers and cannot take Ibuprofen (anti-inflammatory) because of my legs swelling up from the medication.
The doctor has prescribed me with Phorpain Gel Maximum Strength which is Ibuprofen in gel form.  Haven't applied it enough to give you any feedback on that.

You falling on the knee will definitely have done some damage.  There is not much they can do if it is osteoarthritis apart from pain relief and replace the knee cap if it so badly damaged.  

As the xrays and MRI do not show much, perhaps it is not a bone problem, but that from tendons and muscles.

Can you be referred by your doctor to physiotherapy or Triage  where they have more time to assess your problem and give you exercises to do to strengthen the muscles that support the knee joints.

I was told by Triage that the knee is the largest joint in the body and to exercise it (walking in the swimming pool is a good form of strengthening exercise becasue the water bears the weight of the body).

You may need to ask to be referred to an orthopaedic surgeon.  He can do a laparoscopy to find out if there are any bone fragments that need shaving off.

The crackling and popping sounds you hear is called crepitus.

I am waiting at the moment for an appointment with the Triage physio.  It was 5 years ago that I saw them with my knee problem, but it is know much worse, that I can barely walk.

The problem with doctors, if they do not have an answer, they always blame it on weight.  At 180 and being 5'8" I would not say that you are overweight.

Let me know how you get on.
Best wishes.