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Unexpalined "scratches" - linked to flu jab/herpes virus/ shingles?

My little niece, 8 years old, needs your help please.  She was diagnosed with “a variety of herpes virus, maybe shingles” back in September, and was very ill with lots of pain and a rash.  For the last 3 months, since late October, she has been suffering from spontaneous bleeding and unexplained splits/cuts/scratches - whatever you like to call them- ever since having the flu jab. The condition started the day after the flu vaccination, when my niece told her Mum that her finger tips "were going to explode" - each finger started bleeding soon after.  This was followed, over the next few days, by bleeding from her toes.  Ever since then, she has been experiencing splits in her skin.  These 'scratches' appear mainly on her legs and arms, but have also been on her tummy, her back and on the back of her neck.  This week they have started on her face.  She knows exactly where the 'scratches' are going to appear - my sister has taken lots of photos of each stage - redness followed by splitting skin. These scratches are nearly always a series of three very straight parallel lines, very close together, usually about 3 " long.  My niece is just a little girl, and is extremely frightened, because no-one seems to be able to help her; she is also in excrutiating pain and feeling terribly ill.  Last week she temporarily suffered a terrible spasm and lost all movement in her arms and legs – it gradually came back over the course of the night. My sister has taken her to numerous doctors and specialists, but no-one knows what it is. She has had the whole spectrum of blood tests for everything from leukaemia/platelets/ vasculitis/lupus/Lyme disease/red and white cell counts -- everything -- all have come up negative.  This, of course, is good news, BUT no-one can tell us what IS causing the bleeding.  She is definitely NOT self-harming. The condition improved slightly when our doctor prescribed steroids - 5 days after the first pills, the bleeding stopped and my niece felt much better.  The doctor wants to get her off steroids ASAP though, and every time the dosage is reduced, the bleeding starts again - this week she has gone down to one pill, and the bleeding has started on her face - something that hasn't happened before.  This week she has also had blisters appearing on her body - my sister says it looks like the herpes virus rash my niece had before  (My niece was diagnosed with shingles in early autumn - before she had the flu vaccination -- is there a connection?????).  I am really hoping someone out there can help us.  I am particularly interested in talking to anyone who has experienced similar "scratches" -- have you had shingles and/or another form of the herpes virus?   Have you had the flu jab?  Have you had swine flu? (My niece had swine flu 3 years ago - can the virus lie dormant???) Have you had allergic reactions to the flu jab?? Does anyone know of any link between the flu and herpes viruses???  Has anyone contracted shingles since having the flu virus, or heard of the flu vaccine ‘triggering’ shingles.  Do you know ANYONE who can advise us?? We are desperate for ANY help that ANYONE can give us.  My niece is so scared that yesterday she actually asked my sister “Am I going to die, Mummy?” Thank you for reading this.
Kind regards, Janie
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1415174 tn?1453243103
Oh I see you said she started getting the cutting and bleeding a day after. I didn't see that. Thanks. Yes it looks like the shot was  trigger to either a delayed hypersensitivity (allergic reaction) or triggered one of things I talked about above). For most people the flu shot is quite safe and saves many lives. There were 50 deaths in California alone this year so far from the flu. So, it can be helpful. But if you are one of the ones that suffer from an serious allergic reaction or that gets something like this it is terrible. This can happen from taking an antibiotic or just about anything. Last year I had a very slight allergy to a detergent or something and the doctor told me to put a steroid ointment on my legs and my legs blew up the size of elephant legs. They so  itchy and red painful and itchy  really. It took about two months for the swelling and itching and peeling to go away. They ended up giving me a different steroid ointment and it was ok.I still have red legs from it.  The same thing happened to a friend we both used Metrogel (a topical for Rosacea). Her whole face blew up. It was burned. It was an allergic reaction.  It took a long time to get it to go back to normal and she had to use a steroid on her face then taper off of it. She still has scars. I used it too and only on my upper lip and that blew up and peeled. So allergies can be really terrible. It can make your cells blow up. So I don't know if that is what she has or autoimmune. . I'm leaning towards allergy because it came on right after the shot but since it was delayed  (mine leg problem was delayed too) perhaps it triggered something. Lets see how things go. Good that you called about the ingredients. I don't know if dermatologists have patch testing there? It is not the usual tine tests it is where they take the actual ingredient and put it in a patch on the skin. You can't do that now. She has to get all the histamine etc. out of her body. It can take up to a year to get the histamine etc. out and her IgE back to normal. I hope they test her for those two tests. Did they do a complete blood count? They should see a rise in the IgE in the manual white count if they do one.
take care,
mkh9
mkh9
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Avatar universal
   The flu shot contains thimeserol  (spelling?) and mercury among other things that are quite harmful.  If EDTA is available in the UK you might want to try the ointment - it chelates heavy metals out of the blood.    Have your daughter talk to the doctor about EDTA or chelation treatment.  I am so sorry that she is suffering this way, poor baby.  
    She should not get the flu shot again.   I don't take the flu shot, but I take Elderberry or Gelsemium which are just as good and possibly better since there are no side effects.

      It's a shame that people continue to get the flu shot even though there are so many articles on how dangerous it is.
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1415174 tn?1453243103
p.s., how long exactly did it take for her to get symptoms after the vaccine?
thank you,
mkh9
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1415174 tn?1453243103
No I don't mind you asking questions at all about Herpes. No when I first got my Herpes I had never had a flu shot. So there goes that Idea. Yes you can get shingles without a rash. Now that I do have Herpes it is always in your nerve cells the rest of your life. The same goes for all the herpes family of viruses this includes the Epstein Barr virus and CMV too. I got my flu shot in October this year and I had an outbreak of cold sore In January. But that was after a lot of stress on Christmas. Stress triggers Herpes too. So it was months after the injection. Last year I got the flu shot in October and didn't have any break out of Herpes in January or any time may until the summer. I don't remember any at all. When I had my root canal on my right side (which is the side I get my oral herpes), she gave me an injection near the nerve and I got a bad outbreak of herpes for the first time near the gumline of that tooth an the one behind it. She said that can happen and another patient of hers got it too that week. Herpes runs along the nerve it  infects so my is oral type I and infects the nerve along the jaw all the nerves on the right side. I actually got a out break 20 years later after being married to the same person and we are both monogamous and were when we got married. We both had never had sex. So, we trust each other. My doctor said you can get an outbreak in the genital area as well even though it is type 1 because when we were first married we had oral sex. But then didn't for the rest of the time we were married which is now 17 years. So, he did a Herpes IgG type I and 2 and it is only positive for type 1. This is just to show you that you can get type 1 in other places. Also 95% of adults have Herpes type 1 by the time you are middle age or so. In any case shingles comes from chicken pox not herpes type 1. It turns into Herpes zoster. Well, regarding the flu vaccine. Has she ever been allergic to eggs? If it was the live vaccine I can try to find the ingredients on line. But I wonder if what the give in the UK is different then the US? Let me know if you find it. Feel free to write back with any questions. I am happy to try to help with whatever I can. I'm not a doctor but I am or was a clinical microbiologist and understand the lingo of these scientific papers.
mkh9
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Avatar universal
I forgot to say, my sister contacted the flu vaccine company to request information about the ingredients etc, and they categorically told her that they would not speak to her and that she should not contact them again. They have since, however, requested access to my niece's medical records. Also my sister's private health insurance people ( we live in England, so have mostly dealt with NHS doctors, but also 3 private specialists, which have to be paid for) have told her that if this illness turns out to be anything to do with the flu vaccine, they will not reimburse the costs incurred.  Sigh. Fun and games ....
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Avatar universal
Thank you SO much for your detailed reply - you're so kind to take the time to answer. I'm not sure of all the answers to your questions, so I'll pass them, and your suggestions, on to my sister. I know that it was the live virus, and also that they did a platelet count which was fine.  She was diagnosed in September (before the flu vaccination) with -to quote the doctor -"shingles or some other type of herpes virus", so perhaps this has flared up again in response to the vaccine? It would certainly explain the terrible pain she's in, and the fact she can't bear to have a bath or shower, or to have her skin touched. Perhaps zoster sine herpete - the 'rashless' version??  I've read some 100-odd posts in another chat room of people who have had never had outward signs of shingles before, having an outbreak of the virus a couple of days after the flu vaccination - hence my questions.  You said you have the herpes virus - I hope you don't mind me asking, was your virus being treated during the period you had the flu vaccine? (Ie 'under control' at the time?). You've given me lots to think about and follow up, (I feel a lot more 2am internet quests ahead!) so thank you again for your kindness and time.  
Kind regards, Jane
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1415174 tn?1453243103
I assume when you say the flu jab you mean the flu vaccine? It sounds like she was allergic to perhaps eggs or something else in the vaccine? Did she have the live virus or killed virus vaccine? If she got the live virus vaccine then if she already had some underlying disease or a weak immune system and had chicken pox as a younger child she could have gotten shingles possibly if her immune system was low. This wouldn't happen if it was the dead virus. Also, if it was the live virus and she had some other disease such as an autoimmune disease (not Lupus) or a bleeding disorder such as a factor deficiency or not sure about Von Willebrands hemophilia as I think that would show up sooner and have bruising and so forth. Did they check her platelet count? I have Herpes and this doesn't occur to me with the flu vaccine. The fact that the steroids help tells me either it is helping an allergy to the vaccine or that she has an autoimmune disease that they haven't diagnosed yet. You may want to find out all the components besides eggs in the vaccine and mercury and see if she is allergic any of the components or the carrier. Also, if not then see a Rheumatologist.  And, check for blood factor deficiencies. Steroids are really hard on the body, especially the kidneys and they lower the immune system. So I wonder if a high dose (which your doctor can give you the instructions for) of Benedryl would help. That would tell if it is allergy. Also her histamine level and IGE would be high. I haven't had the swine flu. The flu virus doesn't lie dormant like the Herpes virueses. Hope this helps
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