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Avatar universal

keto breath

Hi, I'm not posting to ask an opinion on diagnosing keto breath, just how to get rid of it. I don't have diabetes, not on low carb and not losing weight, I do get low blood sugar for no reason and it's unpredictable, the breath, it's just there. I do eat small regular meals and of course it's worse when I wake up after 8hrs of no food. I've had extensive tests, I'm stuck with it.

The problem is the breath is sickly rancid, I can't stand to be in the same room with me without a window open and my bedroom reeks, I have the double whammy of having an extremely acute sense of smell so this is really upsetting. I'm buying new pillows every few weeks because the odour imbeds in them and even after washing and airing it's hard to shift. The smell is right in my lungs and pretty much coming out of my pores too, not just my mouth, no amount of gum, water, showering, flossing, mouthwash or mints has made a difference. Is there anything I can do, charcoal tablets? Chlorophyll drinks? Does anything work?
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Avatar universal
  Hello.  I did some research and came up with two avenues.
Chlorine Dioxide toothpaste.  I suppose you would have to order it online or try a health food store.
    There is also  Oraltech Labs which has a bad breath cure program.  Also online.

     I sincerely hope this information is helpful.
Wishing you the best.
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Avatar universal
    I am thinking that Papaya Enzyme might help.  One or two chewables after a meal.  I don't like taking mints or candies because of the sugar - but Papaya is naturally minty and cleans the breath by countering the acid in the stomach.

    Hope this helps you as much as it helps me.
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1415174 tn?1453243103
Ok, sorry I couldn't help.
mkh9
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Avatar universal
I'm going to stick with what I'm doing, I'm happy with my diet and exercise routine, my stress level and mental health are quite alright too thanks.

The thread's gone way off topic so I'm going to request it be closed.
Helpful - 0
1415174 tn?1453243103
I understand where you are. I have been there when they couldn't diagnose my migraines for 8 years and ran every test in the book and saw every kind of doctor. I don't know I got lucky after I gave and found that a psychiatrist helped more than the doctors because they listened to me and finally gave me the right drug. I'm not saying you should do the same I sent myself to one because I thought I was crazy. But I would say try Topamax but some everyone reacts differently to meds so I don't know. The hair falling out could be low thyroid or other hormonal problem. Hard to say on that one. Have you had your TSH taken? I will say my triggers are I can't watch flashing lights on TV or video, I can't eat MSG, red wine, and excitement and stress trigger my problem. Certain types of lighting. It can be different for different people but I would avoid them. It sounds like you know some of yours. Maybe eating 6-8 small meals a day and a low fat oil free vegan diet will keep your blood sugar in check and lots of whole grains to keep your protein regular so that you keep your blood sugar regular. Lots of fluids. I am on the Dr. McDougall lifestyle diet. It is not a fad diet. You can read about him and the diet and there is a live chat, testimonials and so forth on www.drmcdougall.com or you can read the starch solution by him or see the video forks over knives. It talks about how diet affects many things including reversing type II diabetes. I know you don't have this but since your ketones are off the right diet may stabilize acidosis. Its up to you to try things. It is a healthy diet. There is plenty of research on it. It lowered both of our cholesterol and my husbands bp. But you have to eat a lot of carbs so eat frequently you don't want to lose weight.  Yes pretty much the EEG can be done by any doctor if necessary. Better by a migraine specialist but they may want to try to put you on new meds like Topamax If you don't want to then why get the EEG except if you want to know if you are positive for a seizure or not.  It is something to think about though. Maybe when you are ready. Oh and lots of walking or exercise always lowers stress and helps with migraines.  
take care,
mkh9
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Avatar universal
Thanks mkh9, I wasn't going to see any more drs, just finish up with what they're doing now, I'm about to give up on the medical profession, the rest of my family has (ironically half of them were nurses). I'm fed up with the invasiveness of the whole thing, they've done so many tests I think there's more of me in those little tubes and jars than there is walking around and all they've done is make things worse.

I never did see someone specifically about migraine, I will ask my GP next time I'm in, if it's just a matter of going for an EEG at a testing place it can get sorted in a week or so, if it's a wait list for another specialist though probably not. It's not like I can do much about it even if it comes back positive, meds have been a nightmare for me, the 3 anti seizure meds weren't effective for long and ultimately made me worse off so I'm reluctant to try another one. It would be triggers, lifestyle factors and non drug treatments I'd be more interested in.

I know it sounds vain but my life was orientated around the gym, my living came from being fit, the weight gain and hair loss on top of everything else is insult on injury, it's devastated my confidence and sense of self and ended my career far faster than the illness it was meant to treat would have had it just been left to run its course, at least I would have had a chance to plan a retirement. I've lost so much more than just my health, I don't even recognise the person I see in the mirror, what I see does not reflect the hours and care I put into my physical health and grooming every week, people treat me very very differently too, like I'm lazy and let myself go even though I'm working so much harder now to fight it. Having said that if the drug won't upset my stomach, will bring me back to my normal weight and will stop my hair falling I would try it. I'm at the point now where everything is a band aid.
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1415174 tn?1453243103
You sound like cross between migraine and seizure. You definitely should get the EEG and maybe two. I have one regular one and one I with flashing lights. They were to rule out seizure but also (originally to prove I had a migraine). I have to sometimes wear sunglasses in restaurants or where lights bother me. I have a lot of the symptoms you have except the smell (in that I don't smell the same bad smell) that is a neurological thing too.  I think it might be a type of seizure. But then you have it al the time. There is a type of seizure that makes you pass out but before that you smell a noxious odor.  They all different. Some migraine have all kinds of weird sensations. The Topamax helps a lot of the weird stuff. most of my fliying lights, dark floating things, auras (wiggling zigzag lines) .double vision and vertigo are gone with the Topamax. It made my short term memory really bad Now there is a extended release form of it called Trokendi XR that made me really fatigued the first week and now I am ok and the memory is better. I wonder if it would help you. The neurologist if they are a migraine specialist is much much better. But you can get your regular doctor to give you this med too. They give you a coupon and one week supply of the drug but you have order it ahead of time as it is new and they don't keep it in stock. It is a thought if you can stand trying anything else after your experiences. If you decide to try it I'll tell you more about the potential side effects or you can look them up.
mkh9
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Avatar universal
I've heard about the loss of smell happening but not the opposite, I wish the smell was all it was, I have a very long list of things going on that shouldn't be. Slamming doors give me vertigo and I get these odd losses of consciousness, kind of a jump cut effect, one second I'm here, the next I'm there, it's not absent mindedness, it's quite jarring.

I have especially bad problems anywhere with florescent lighting or that flickering effect from the tree canopy with the dappled light coming through, the tree one is quite hypnotic and calming until it's not but the artificial light I get this awful feeling like I'm falling and throwing up at the same time pretty much straight away, butcher shops with the red meat lights are the worst, I had a lot of trouble when those new energy saving globes came in, stupid government phased out incandescent, they don't save energy anyway, I had to have twice as many on to see half as much they're such a poor quality of light, halogen are only a little better, full spectrum lighting is expensive.

I have hyperacusis and photophobia as well, I live in a city so I'm constantly being bombarded by noxious stimuli, I did see a neurologist but he was a little noxious himself, he didn't do an EEG, actually he didn't even listen and was quite rude, I meet far too many doctors like that, I've waited up to 2 years for appointments then they've acted like I'm the inconvenience to them.

The only aura I used to get was the Alice in wonderland effect where my distances and shapes would get out of whack and I'd get a kind of overcast sky effect with a feeling of dread followed by extreme headache, nausea, retching and all the usual sensitivity to stimuli, they were hormonally triggered. I used to use imigran nasal spray, tasted awful but it did abort the migraine. Now though I rarely get a headache, if I do it's only the back of my right eye and not all that bad but the aura is a shocker, my migraines have been reclassified as "silent". The first time it happened I saw this sparkly C shape I thought was in one eye till I covered it and realised it was my whole vision, it moved across my field of vision and then I went blind, I could see the dominant colour but that's it, like I was looking at a blank wall, 20mins later it was gone and my eye felt like I'd been punched. Didn't know what it was at the time, freaked me out.

The propranolol is supposed to act against migraines but I find I get a kind of rebound effect on it. I tried the anti seizure meds, antidepressants and all that when they were trying to sort out some pain management, when I first went on the anti seizure med apart from upsetting my stomach it was like a miracle, but a few weeks and stopped working, then I piled on a stack of weight while dieting no less, my hair fell out and I was completely zonked out, not on them anymore but 3 years on I'm still "fat" and my hair is still coming out in clumps, I used to have such beautiful waist length hair, now I look like a scarecrow with hypothyroidism, I want to cry every time I wash my hair, it comes out in fistfuls, I have patches that don't get longer than a few inches before falling out again. The anti depressants were worse than useless, I had a severe reaction to the very first dose with one of them and ended up having to call an ambulance, serotonin syndrome I think, nasty whatever it was.

Anyhow, I'll ask the doc about the breath again, I went to the chemist and asked about the charcoal but they said while it should work there is no guarantee it will and at 20 bucks a pop to try these treatments I can see it turning into a few hundred dollars by the time I've given each one a go, I just can't afford it. I came out with some eucalyptus lollies instead, sugar plus a masking pungent odour, I'm off the vics for the moment, I get rebound sinus headaches if I use it too much, same with the eucalypt.
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1415174 tn?1453243103
My friend just said parsley, peppermint, and cinnamon gum. It might distract you from the smell.
mkh9
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1415174 tn?1453243103
I have migraines as well. They have been a big problem. I have a migraine variant that used to give me just nausea, vomiting and the shakes without the headache and they couldn't diagnose me for years. Then a neurologist finally found it out by EEG. I was put on klonopin and I didn't get any more vomiting at night. Then in my 30's I got the headaches and regular aura's so I got on Imitrex. But last couple of years I started getting double vision, black out part of my vision and then terrible vertigo where I would fall down. It is all migraine related. I also have a Keen sense of smell. So I wonder if yours is related to the migraine. I went on Topamax It took away all my symptoms, except the headaches, which is ok. The other thing I wonder is my father in law had the 1918 flu and then go Parkinson 's later (not that you have that ) but he lost his sense of smell). it s the opposite but I wonder if yours is neurological and maybe they can help? In the short term what can block your sense of smell? Well I was just wondering if trying Topamax (topiramate ) would do anything if it happened to be migraine related. Let me think about it. I know someone that knows homeopathic stuff  I'll go on Facebook and see if she knows of anything like that. I'm sorry you are suffering.
take care,
mkh9
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Avatar universal
***I SHOULD ADD I'M JUST LOOKING FOR SYMPTOM TREATMENT*** Something from the chemist, health food shop or a home remedy, something to get rid of the smell or the ketones, I'm not interested in unravelling my medical history.
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Avatar universal
It is complicated, one thing on top of the other, it's hard to know what's an original sign and what's a complication and there is so much that's off. I do know for certain I have both infection and inflammation going on in a cyclic fashion. I'm still waiting for appointments to come up, the wait lists here are long but autoimmune and endocrinology are currently on the table, I have osteoporosis so I see those specialists every few years anyway. I'm under medical care, I'm just not getting answers.

It's possible my PH is a bit off, I've had a lot of infections lately although I'm not worried about that right now, it is this smell that is bothering me. Right now I don't care if it's by getting rid of the smell itself or by doing something to blunt my sense of smell, either will do. A few years back I lost amongst other things my sense of smell and taste for 2 weeks, when it came back oh boy did it come back, x50, odours now trigger migraine auras I never used to get with the sparkling moving C shape, nausea, the whole 9 yards. My other senses have gone hyper stupid on me as well, nothing has been the same since that encephalitis thing a few years back. Anyhow, I'm not going to get a diagnosis on the net, I'm just looking for a way to kill the smell, I don't really care what or how just as long as something does the trick, I know it's the least of what's going on but it's really starting to get on my nerves, I'm getting snappy with people because it's decimating my concentration levels and I have horrendous nausea. I come home to give my senses a rest, not bathe in another horrible lingering smell.
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1415174 tn?1453243103
You do have a complicated problem. How is your diet? Are you eating well? I wonder if you are absorbing your nutrients right (malaborption syndrome). One sign of this is floating stools? Do you check your blood sugar regularly? If it is too low swings a lot.  There is also lacti acidosis. I'm not sure you have this though. There is one treatment that a nephrologist has to do that is to adjust your bicarbonate. It is kind of tricky though. The thing is to get at the root of the problem. If you have acidosis all the time it needs to be corrected. So, it sounds like the drug you take (is it a beta blocker?) for your arrhythmia is causing your low blood sugar. Which is causing acidosis. Have you brought this up with your cardiologist or the doctor that prescribed it?  Maybe they can work on the blood sugar problem. I think that is key.
mkh9
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Avatar universal
Never had that problem, it's not in the mouth, also the alcohol in mouthwash makes it more pungent since alcohol is what ketones exhale as (I don't drink, I just smell like it). It's a sickly rotten apple/nail polish remover chemical smell coming deep from my lungs and when I sweat at night, through my pores. My mother's diabetic, I recognise the keto odour. Mine also isn't constant, I mostly get it overnight or on the very rare occasion I skip one of the 8 small meals I have a day to keep my blood sugar stable, keto dipsticks go purple with it, and every time I've had a finger prick my sugar is low, even when I've eaten just 2 hours before, the doc agrees the breath is from that.

I've had multiple GTTs all normal and was put on metoformin for a while anyway, it didn't work, I don't have diabetes, I don't even have pre diabetes, I don't have PCOS either and bar genetics none of the risk factors, I just get idiopathic low blood sugar. I have not lost weight. One thing I do have though is a drug to manage arrhythmia of which one of the side effects is low blood sugar, since I started taking it it stopped being a now and then thing and became a pretty much everyday thing, I cannot stop taking it, it's the only treatment that's worked.

Masking it won't work anymore than trying to hide your breath after a weekend drinking, I need some way to clear or neutralise the ketones beyond "drink more water" (I have 2 litres a day, anything more upsets my electrolyte balance and I end up in the ED with cardiac problems), you can't buy a complete electrolyte replacement here without a prescription and no one really prescribes it anymore, it's a hospital thing. I'm looking for something that will capture or clear out the ketones but not my whole system of things I actually need, preferably something natural, like activated charcoal or chlorophyll except something for ketones?
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1415174 tn?1453243103
Actually, about 80-90% of bad breath is due to bacteria on the back of the tongue. Use a tongue scraper on the back of a toothbrush or buy a tongue scraper and get all the film or bacteria off the back of the tongue. Do this 2-3 times a day. Rinse and then you can use your mouthwash. You can try 1 teaspoon of salt in a cup of warm water and gargle after removing the bacteria. It is not harmful and actually good for the mouth and throat. Once or twice  a day. See if that doesn't help over a week or two. Try not to gag yourself. That is about as far back as you need to go. Hope this helps. If it doesn't let me know. But give it a good chance first.
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