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Vitamin D Deficiency

For anyone wishing to learn about the multitude of conditions that happen as a result of Vit D deficiency, you can read the New England  Journal of Medicine article by Dr. Michael F. Holick, noted as the world's renown expert on Vitamin D by the Vitamin D Council (www.vitamindcouncil.com) by going to www.vitamindhealth.org and clicking on "original journal articles".  There is also an external link to a presentation made by Dr. Holick to the European Calcified Tissue Council that is very entertaining to watch and includes the most incredible information.  It is a live stream and if your computer screen goes black, just click any key to watch the rest of the slides.  Your doc can't help it if s/he doesn't know about the current Vit D levels.  30 used to be the bottom acceptable number, but now it is 50 -- and that is just to maintain minimum Vit D.  If your level is 32, don't let someone tell you it is "normal."  You'll see from the NEJM article that every cell in your body has vit D receptors.  Low Vit D can cause everything from osteomalacia (adult form rickets) that produces bone pain and muscle pain to cancers, MS, etc.  If your Vit D is low, your body cannot absorb calcium no matter how much you take or get in your food.  Then your calcium is low which leads to heart conditions and everything else listed in the article or on the ECTS video.  When your doc checks your blood, however, your calcium will look normal.  That is because your body is busy robbing calcium from your bones and teeth to meet the needs of your vital organs.  Your doc has to measure ionized calcium, not serum calcium, to obtain an accurate calcium level for a person with a vit D deficiency.  Most docs did not learn about this in medical school.  Dr. Holick has been doing this research for at least 30 years.  I know a hospital administrator who explained to me that it takes new medical information a minimum of 20 years to make it into mainstream medical practice.  Some of you are frustrated that you cannot find out what "causes" the deficiency.  There is not enough Vit D in food or today's multivitamins.  (see video/read NEJM article).  Most of us MUST take a supplement.  And most of us are not in the sun 10 minutes each day with 25% of our skin uncovered.  Most docs are skeptical of new information until it is proven, proven, proven again.  They want to make sure they don't make their patients sick.  Educate yourself.  You can also read a newsletter and articles about current Vit D info on the vitamindcouncil website.  Amazing stuff.  One of my docs suggested I try an antidepressant for my symptoms of numbness, tingling, cramping in my feet, chronic infection, deteriorating teeth, terrible joint, muscle, bone pain.  Maybe I should go back and ask that doc which antidepressant he would recomment for the Vit D deficiency he missed?  I believe the current treatment is 50,000 iu/week for 8 weeks, then perhaps every other week if the level is still low.  I now take 4,000 iu a day (from wholesale food store or drugstore).  The American Academy of Pediatrics just raised their recommended limits and even newborns should be getting supplements.  10 minutes of sunlight every day can help unless you live above Atlanta, Ga and then you can only make D a few short months of the year.  Otherwise, take a supplement!  This condition is considered epidemic by many doctors.  And more and more of them are learning about this problem every day.  You can search on any medical condition i.e. "Parkinson's and Vit D deficiency", "asthma and Vit D deficiency" and you will be amazed at what you find.  I would also recommend sending a question to a MedHelp Expert.  It is a very reasonable fee and you will get a specific answer emailed back to you that can also benefit your online friends.  It worked for me.  I have about 5 friends who recently found out they are deficient.  Good luck, everyone! Don't be D-ficient!!! minmtn


This discussion is related to Vitamin D Deficiency ?.
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6490597 tn?1381779595
thanks :))) your reply helped me a lot..
i am having joint pains and back aches since 3 years. i am not even able to carry luggage and my joints are making noise when i move. it's really very difficult. whenever i visited any doctor, they advised me to do exercises and all, but just last week one doctor advised me to get my vit. D3 level checked. and it was 6.1 !
also i m deficient of vitamin B6, so doctor has advised me  iv injections of vit. B6 and oral 60000 IU weekly of vitamin D. today was my first day of vit. D supplement, i was very curious to know more about it so started searching on internet and found this! and it helped me a lot in knowing more about this.

should  get my ionized calcium level checked?
i'm on the prescription of 60,000 IU D3 per week now..

i am 23 years old female and i live in india..
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Avatar universal
Glad you're feeling great!  I'm very interested in taking a look at the website you mention.  Thanks for sharing that with us.    
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Avatar universal
That is contrary to all I've heard, but I sent an inquiry to the vitamin d council.  Let's see what Dr. Cannell has to say.  My first thought is that you can't just give large doses of Vit D w/o the other vitaminds, minerals, etc., that are needed, such as calcium citrate.   A very high dose may have caused an endocrine imbalance.  
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Avatar universal
OK, now I'm really confused! I heard on the radio that there was a new study that said that some folks taking large doses of Vitamin D were having MORE falls and fractures instead of less! They weren't sure if it had to do with people feeling better on the Vit. D and being more active and thus more apt to have an accidental fall or if it was due to the large doses of Vitamin D making people feel dizzy and causing falls. I have not read the study myself...has anyone else?
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Avatar universal
The Vitamin D study at GrassrootsHealth.net. is a great way for people to find out their levels and participate in ending this epidemic. Since I raised my Vitamin D levels from the 20's to 42 ng/ml, I did not have a cold or flu this year for the first time in decades. My blood pressure is lower, I sleep better, my mood has improved, and I no longer have foot pain. I have been taking 2000 IU/day, but have upped it to 5000. Thanks so much for starting this extremely important forum.
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Avatar universal
Thanks for the info. I will start my search!
                          ak
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Avatar universal
Greetings, ak! Just received a reply to a question I posted to the Vitamin D Council website regarding injectable Vit D.  Here it is:

"Injectable vitamin D does exist and is frequently used in clinical studies at doses (that I have seen) up to 600,000 IU at one time. The trick is finding a physician who can supply you with it."

Hope this helps!  The current and past issues of this newsletter are a treasure trove of information about Vit D.  They are free to view at .com  
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Avatar universal
A reply to my question posted to vitamindcouncil.com just came back and refers to the April 2008 issue of the Council Newsletter and specifically to an article by Dr. John Connell about the Marshall Protocol:  

http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/newsletter/2008-april.shtml

The article opens with, "I have been inundated with letters asking about Professor Marshall's recent "discovery."

Perhaps this info will be helpful to all of us as we attempt to piece together the puzzle of our personal vitamin D situations.  Best to all--  
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Avatar universal
I am confused.  You're asking for help, but you seem to be rigidly defending your own scientific research and discounting the medical doctors including people associated by review with Mayo Clinic.  Why not consider at least looking at what the top Vitamin D scientists/medical doctors in the world have determined through more than 50 years of research?  Such as Dr. Holick's "ECTS Presentation" at vitamindhealth.ORG.  Ten top Vitamin D scientists are listed at vitamindcouncil.com.

If you live near a medical school (research center with a clinic) perhaps you might obtain another opinion there.  I hope you find the answers you seek.  Take care.

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Avatar universal
Hi, I had my vit. D tested and it was 8 and I was advised to take 10,000iu per day, does any one know if doctors give a vit. D shot.
                                                   Thanks,
                                                       AK
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Avatar universal
@minmtn  

k. well thanks for your reply and now i do have some doubts about the marshall protocol, however, the science i have investigated into it seems to be very valid. It makes sense if your body cannot target specific bacterial cells due to their cell wall disappearing and that the supplementation of more vitamin d (to your already high active levels) would not be what you want to do... in fact the worst thing you could do.

I had a blood test done recently and it revealed some abnormalities.  Specifically my Vit.D 25-OH level is 13 !!!!  scary. (on this test paper it says normal range is between 20-100 even though i have read on here people are saying 30-50 is the absolute low?) D3 is also 13 and D2 says it is <4.  My doctor wanted to prescribe me vitamin d supplements but I explained my findings about the fact that Vit.D deficiency is typically a marker of an underlying condition which is causing the symptoms, and not the cause itself.  He finally came around to agree with this and ordered a full panel test of vitamin d.  I am hopeful this will test and show the ratio difference between the active and inactive vit.d in my blood and that if my 1,25 is found high, that I can get more testing done to find out the cause of this, as obviously Vit.D supplementation would NOT be a recommended treatment.

In addition to my extremely low Vit.D levels, my Eosinophils are high at 5.4 (says 0.0-4.0 is normal) and my Anion Gap is low @ 6 (7-15 normal).  I did a bit of research into eosinophils and found that it can be related to some pretty serious (and rare) disorders and even specific (rare) blood cancers.  I am not a hypochondriac, its just that the reason i think the worst is because i have had so many symptoms for so many years (about 6-7 years) and I just wish they would take me seriously so that my disorder could be found and I could then hope for a treatment.  

Any suggestions on what else I should ask to get checked?  I have a return appointment to discuss the results of the full Vit.D panel in a few weeks. thanks so much.  
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Avatar universal
Thanks so much for your response.  I will watch the video.  I will inquire with his doctors also about the calcium.   We live in St Louis, but he is being treated for his dysautonomia at University Hospital in Cleveland.  They have been great.

Thanks for the info,
Christy
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Avatar universal
So sorry your son is ill.  My son was ill much of his first 20 years, but now he is finishing college and doing fine.  He still has migraines, but he started a beta blocker a year ago and he has fewer headaches now.

If you son has a Vit D level of only 10, he is severely deficient.  The lowest acceptable level now is 50.  It used to be 30.  50 is a minimal level, not an optimum level.  The experts would be prescribing 50,000 iu per week for  8-10 weeks, followed by 2,000 iu/day.  Also, when we are Vit D deficient, we cannot absorb calcium because Vit D is required to process calcium.  This affects our entire bodies, particularly heart, neurological system, etc.  

I was Vit D deficient over a year ago (16) and a rheumatologist happened to diagnose my condition -- just took one look at me and listened to me rattle off 5 symptoms and asked if anyone had checked my Vit D.  The correct test to run is  25-hydroxyvitamin D.  Not 1,25 (OH)2D.

Please check the website at www.vitamindhealth.org, of Dr. Michael Holick.  He is one of the top Vit D scientists in the world, located at Boston University Medical Center.  He specialty is endocrinology and he conducts a lot of research studies.  From his website you can read his New England Journal of Medicine articles, read Q&A from a transcript of a web chat on Vit D by medical people asking him questions, and view a video from the External Link, "ECTS (European Calcified Tissue Symposium)".  To view, click on the link, wait while it loads (3-5 min) and then while watching, if your computer screen goes black, tap a key on your keyboard to bring the screen back up.  

It might be worth finding a doctor who is more up to date on treatment of Vit D deficiency.  Is you son taking calcium?  He may need a calcium supplement also, because with such a low level of Vit D, he may have hypocalcemia.  You might look up the symptoms on a website like www.vitamindcouncil.com AND eMedicine,
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/767260-overview.  You will see a lot of cardiovascular effects listed!  

Most informed docs, internal medicine, pediatrician, endocrinology, rheumatology, (for women, gynecologist), all know that to treat a severe Vit D deficiency -- the gold standard treatment is 50,000 iu/week, not 2,000 iu/day.  But other chemistry must be taken into consideration.  When I went to see Dr. Holick, he told me to take calcium citrate, not calcium carbonate.  Levels of magnesium, etc. must also be in balance.  I hope you can find a doc that is familiar with the current treatment.  My son takes 2,000 iu Vit D daily now and he is not deficient.

There was a time when we thought my son would never be able to go to college and then he started feeling better after we found he had a sinus abscess.  

You are right to be vigilant for your son.  Be sure to tell him that you will not give up until you find out what is required for him to feel better.  The first thing is that If his D level is so low as 10, his energy level is probably so low that he can barely get out of a chair!  Maybe get him to watch the Vit D video on Dr. Holick's website with you.  It might give him hope.  Do you live near a medical school?  I would take him there if you do.  

My son was able to make up his missed school work through one of several online programs for middle and high school students that are run by universities such as Texas Tech and University of Texas.  Your state may have similar programs.  But I wouldn't even attempt anything like that until he is well.  He would not have the mental strength to attempt it right now and it would likely discourage him.  

I have great hope that with the right help, your son will be much better!  
  
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Avatar universal
Hello. . .Are you kidding us that you are looking to a Ph D in Electrical Engineering for medical advice/treatment???  Not a Medical Doctor (M.D.)?  My urgent message to you is to take a look at the four links, below.  At the 2nd link you will find a Medical Doctor commenting on the Marshall Protocol.

The 3rd link is the email address to contact Dr. John Cannell, director of the Vitamin D Council.  You can sign up for the free newsletter and send the email you posted here, to the Council website and someone on the staff will likely reply to you and perhaps  include your inquiry in the online newsletter that comes out about twice a month.  You can read all of the past newsletters on the website and you will learn that you may be risking your life.  You say you are Vit D deficient, but you don't state your number.  The Medical Doctors will tell you that deficient Vitamin D CAUSES a multitudes of medical conditions, including hypocalcemia, which causes even more trouble.  You can go back and read some the info from some of my prior posts if you are interested.  But the best way to get first hand information is from the Vitamin D Council website and also from the website of Dr. Michael J. Holick, one of the world's top (if not THE top) vitamin D scientist -- the 4th link below.  

At Dr. Holick's website, Watch the "External Link" ECTS Presentation.  CLick on the link, wait until it buffers (3-5 min) and then if your computer screen goes black while watching (it takes about 35 minutes), just tap a key on your keyboard.

You can also read the transcript from a web chat on Dr. Holick's website and you will learn the answers to just about any question you can think of regarding Vitamin D.  This was a chat of docs, not ordinary civilians.  I went to see this doctor in Boston.  

I learned I was Vit D deficient after my new doctor (M.D.) listened to my symptoms for about 5 minutes and then asked if anyone had checked my Vit D.  It was 16 and the bare minimum level is 50 (it used to be 30).  Ask your doctor to:  
Test 25-hydroxyvitamin D – NOT 1,25 (OH)2D.  Don't use Quest lab if you have any other choice right now.  To find out why, look at the Vit D Council website.  

Do you know what TURNS ON your immunity?  It is Vitamin D.

If you are Vit D deficient, you cannot absorb any calcium.  But your calcium level will often look normal or even elevated because until your body is TOTALLY depleted of Calcium, your system will leach it from your bones and you will have excruciating bone and joint pain from a condition called osteomalacia.    

1)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trevor_Marshall
This Dr. is a Ph D in Electrical Engineering, NOT a M.D. (Medical Doctor)

2)
www.xxx.xxxxxxxxx.xxx/alternative-therapies/1643-marshall-protocol-stay-away-one.html
Scroll down the page to view the comment by Dr. Cheney -- M.D.

3)
***@**** - Dr. John Cannell

4)
www.vitamindhealth.org - Dr. Michael Holick

There are qualified medical doctors in every country -- I hope you get yourself to one of them!  And you can share links # 4 and 3 with them.  Dr. Holick's New England Journal of Medicine articles are listed on his website, reviewed by Mayo Clinic.  Now, which hands would you put your life in?  An engineer or a Medical Doctor?

In fact I am so worried about you that I am going to send a message to Dr. Cannell and ask him to comment on the Marshall Protocol in his next newsletter.

Good luck to you!
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Avatar universal
My 15 year old son was also just diagnosed vitamin D deficient.  His was 10!  He has dysautonomia and has been sick for over a year.  He rarely makes it outside, unless going to the car to go the doctors.  I wonder which came first, the dysautonomia, no sun so no vitamin D or  low vitamin D so got dysautonomia?  (The chicken or the egg?)

They put him on 2000 iu daily and want him rechecked in 2 months.  I'm wondering if 2000 iu is enough.

Christy
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Avatar universal
Hi. Ihave alot of symptoms and have had progressive pain for years.  Specifically my neck and back is in agonizing pain and I have blurred vision and balance problems.

Recently it was found i have vitamin d deficiency and my doc wants to prescribe me vit.d supplements.  After reading into the 'marshall protocol' i now understand that vit.d deficiency is usually a result of some underlying disease.  With this in mind i am going to ask my doctor to do more tests, but im stuck.  I dont know what to say to him or how to even get involved in the 'marshall protocol', on the site i could not find how i how i can get started?    I am going to ask him to do a blood test they recommend of vitamin d inactive vs active.  21,hydroxy vs 25d or something like that i think... but i do not think he will even know about this.  

I am very worried about leukemia as well as my symptoms seem to fit.  Ive tried to change my diet and am in the process of attempting to eliminate gluten from my diet. Any suggestions on what i should/could ask my doctor?  I just feel like im being left behind and ignored and I really dont think taking vitamin d supplements is going to be good for me at all. :(

anyways.. i also
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Avatar universal
Your doctor is right, except that your level should be minimum 50, not 32.  30 is the old number.  Also, ask your doctor to check your ionized calcium if s/he hasn't already done so -- not serum calcium!  You are probably very low in calcium because calcium cannot be absorbed if you are Vit D deficient.  The calcium to take is calcium citrate, not calcium carbonate according to Dr. Holick.  (Calcium citrate will prevent kidney stones - cal calbonate can cause them).  Ask your doctor to read Dr. Michael Holick's NEJM article or go to www.vitamindhealth.org and watch the video presentation (external link on website), "ECTS Presentation".  You should watch this also.  It will take about 3-4 minutes to load and 35 min to watch.  Then while you watch it, if your computer screen goes black, tap any key on your computer and it will reappear.  You will learn about osteomalacia.   Or just search "osteomalacia".  That is what happens to your bones when you are Vit D deficient.  Your system will leach the calcium from your bones and teeth to meet the needs of your vital organs (heart, lungs) and you will suffer bone and joint pain as a result.  It is the adult form of rickets.  The substance inside your bones is like jello and is trying to expand and that causes bone pain.  When you finish your 8 weeks or so of the Rx 50,000 iu, you will likely be told to take 2,000 to 4,000iu per day or perhaps more. I was able to get my level up to about 30 after 3 months by taking 2,000 iu/day, but had to take 4,000 iu/day to get it above 50.  Now it is 50.

You will find a lot of info at this website also:  www.vitamindcouncil.com

Also found a note from the RN (see below) on another forum.  It was written to another patient.

If your doc has already checked ionized calcium and has you taking calcium citrate, then, s/he wins a prize!  Dr. Holick is listed as one of the top Vit D scientists in the world on the Vitamin D Council website.  If not, and you live anywhere near Boston, go see Dr. Holick.  Otherwise, if your doctor doesn't check your ionized calcium , find another doc!  Dr. Cannell is head doc at the Vit D Council.

The RN quote:  "Hate to be didactic, but have you had your Vitamin D levels checked? They should be at around 60-80 ng/dl, otherwise you will need to increase the IUs you are taking until you get above at least 50 ng/dl. This is NORMAL, not therapeutic level. Without Vit D in adequate amounts, the body can't make immune system components, blood cells, etc. as well as hormones, enzymes, and Vit D is required to maintain healthy DNA function."  Jan Grossberg, RN, BSN

Take care. Good diet, rest and if you can, get 10-15 minutes of midday sun each day, you will replenish your  Vit D "tank" more quickly.  If you do not live about about Atlanta, GA latitude, you probably can't make any Vit D from the sun yet -- until the weather warms up a little more and the sun is closer to where you live.  Therefore, the supplements will have to do the job.  Just tell yourself each day that you are building your Vit D back and you'll be feeling better soon -- it just takes a little time.  Good luck!
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Avatar universal
Hi,
I was told by my doc that I have Vit D deficiency where it should be 32 I have only 6.1....I am suffering from severe headaches and body pains everywhere.....She suggested me to take 50,000 Vit D supplement per day for 3 weeks.....I am having headaches,ear pain, eye blur,giddiness, tired,joint pains
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Avatar universal
Sorry you aren't feeling well.  If the doctor you have been going to over and over is not a specialist in endocrinology or gastroenterology, perhaps someone in that specialty could help you.  My mom had thyroid problems and I believe she was told it may have started with Vit D deficiency.  But that may not be the situation for you.  Dr. Holick's website discusses how Vit D deficiency and resulting low calcium can trigger a condition called secondary hyperthyroidism or hypoparathyroidism -- I can't remember which.  You can watch the video that talks about this condition (among other conditions) at www.vitamindhealth.org and click on External Link "ECTS Presentation".  Wait for it to load, maybe 3-5 minutes.  Or read the New England Journal of Medicine article (Original Journal Articles) from the website.  The link is near the top task bar on the main web page.  Good luck and hope you feel better!
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471161 tn?1317190950
Kimby, I am not sure if low vit D can cause pain in that area but you never know and doctors don't know everything.  Have you started on Vit. D yet?  Did your doctor write an Rx for Vit. D or tell you how much to take?  I would suggest getting your D level up to normal and seeing if the pain goes away.
God Bless
Joni
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Avatar universal
I was just diagnosed with low Vitamin D and I was wondering if anyone else on here has this problem. I have had this pain/ discomfort in the front of neck for almost a year. I am wondering if it could be because of low vitamin d. I have been going to my doctor about it over and over again and still have not got any answers. It feels like a constant tightness around the area of the thyroid gland, but it doesn't stay there, the discomfort moves up to my jaw and around to my ears. I also occasionally get little spasms in my throat that I notice especially after I take medication or vitamins. I know a lot of my other symptoms can be from low vitamin d but I have know idea about this, please if somebody has had something similar can you let me know?
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Avatar universal
Low Platelets & Vit D.  Here is a message I found from an RN to someone else outside this forum:  

Hate to be didactic, but have you had your Vitamin D levels checked? They should be at around 60-80 ng/dl, otherwise you will need to increase the IUs you are taking until you get above at least 50 ng/dl. This is NORMAL, not therapeutic level. Without Vit D in adequate amounts, the body can't make immune system components, blood cells, etc. as well as hormones, enzymes, and Vit D is required to maintain healthy DNA function.  Jan Grossberg, RN, BSN
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Avatar universal
If you haven't had a chance to watch this entertaining video by Dr. Michael Holick, one of the world's top vitamin D scientists, just grab some popcorn and go to www.vitamindhealth.org.  The video is the 2nd item under" External Links: Presentation to ECTS".  You will learn a lot and laugh a lot during the approx 30 minute video.  Once you click on the link, it will take about 3 minutes or so to buffer, so just wait while it loads.  You don't need to do anything else except watch.  There will be a small screen with Dr. Holick at the podium and then after he introduces his topic, you will see a second screen displaying his his slides to the right side of the first screen.  While watching, your screen may go black -- just tap any key on your computer keyboard to bring the image back up.  ALSO, There are answers to just about any question you can think of related to Vit D deficiency on this website from Dr. Holick's posted Live Webinar forum:  www.vitamindhealth.org/?p=63#more-63.  You will be able to read his answers to specific questions on Vit D and a multitude of medical conditions.  His New England Journal of Medicine articles are linked near the top of the main web, www.vitamindhealth.org, under "Original Journal Articles".
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Avatar universal
Hi all, I just read through the forum. I was prescribed the weekly vitamin D3 pills and just started yesterday. My D was at 19. I am hoping this will help me. I have had fatigue for years and was diagnosed with Idiopathic Hypersomnia after a sleep study didn't show anything wrong. My iron & B vitamins always come up normal, as does my thyroid. Still, I take iron and B6 and B12 pills daily & they help a little. I hadn't known about Vitamin D though, and it makes sense that I would be low since I never go out in the sun without sunscreen, lived in Northern latitudes most of my life, and don't eat much dairy.
I am still confused about a few things. I don't have any of the pain symptoms that everyone else seems to have, just fatigue/tiredness and weakness if I exercise. Also I had some skin problems, which my Dr diagnosed as sebhorric dermatitis. Since I started on the D yesterday my skin feels much better.
Another thing I was wondering about was that 2 times now my Drs have written on my lab results that my platelets are "low", but they said it's nothing to be concerned by. I still can't figure out what that means and whether it's something related to low D.
I am definitely going to stop avoiding the sun so much from now on, and hopefully I will be able to do all the things I used to once I get my energy back.
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