?????

Another strange obesity cure that was popular among physicians for a time was human chorionic gonadotropin (HGC), a type of growth hormone that was injected into patients. This treatment became popular in 1957, when Harper's Bazaar printed a diet -- "Slimming: A Roman Doctor's Treatment" -- that consisted of 500 calories a day for up to forty days, plus daily hormone injections. In the article, the physician, British endocrinologist A.T.W. Simeons, claimed his patients weren't hungry as long as they took shots of HCG, which is produced by the placenta and derived from the urine of pregnant women (variations on this treatment used the urine of pregnant rabbits and mares). It's the very hormone, in fact, that turns the stick blue on a home pregnancy test.

Human chorionic gonadotropin was legitimately used at the time to treat a condition called Fröhlich's syndrome, a hormonal imbalance that affects young boys, disturbing their sexual development, appetite, and sleep, and causing them to accumulate fat on the hips, buttocks, and thighs. Simeons reasoned that if the drug worked to melt away the fat on those boys with a rare genetic disorder, then it ought to do the same thing on normal, healthy women. The hormone, he wrote, would cause a "normal distribution" of fat on the body and would correct a "basic disorder in the brain." His diet book -- Pounds and Inches: A New Approach to Obesity -- included other gems of pseudo-medical advice, warning readers to eat no breakfast whatsoever, except for coffee, and to abstain from using any cosmetics or lotion on the body because it will be absorbed and added to the existing fat deposits in the body.

Simeon's treatment became all the rage; for a time, it was the most widespread medication given in the United States to lose weight, and was the main treatment used in eighty Weight Reduction Medical Clinics in California. Unfortunately, it didn't work: None of the mainly female patients seeking treatment, it turned out, were suffering from Fröhlich's syndrome. The medical establishment only started to become suspicious of the drug when reports surfaced that part-time doctors were being offered as much as $100,000 a year by weight-loss clinics to spend one afternoon a week sitting and writing pads of prescriptions for the drug.

In 1962, the Journal of the American Medical Association warned against the Simeons diet, saying "continued adherence to such a drastic regimen is potentially more hazardous to the patient's health than continued obesity." In 1974, the Food and Drug Adminstration required producers of HCG to label the drug with a warning against using it for weight loss or fat redistribution. In Canada, the Task Force on the Treatment of Obesity warned that the use of the hormone "touches on possible malpractice." Nevertheless, a few diet doctors continued with the treatment -- it is legal, after all, for physicians to prescribe medications for purposes that are not approved by the FDA -- often handing the patients the drugs and injection equipment so they could administer it themselves.

[Satriana]

hav you taken hcg and bad effects? i think i read thsat you said you were a athlete or something? and was wondering if you were having a weight problem  too and what do you use?

[Satriana]

wow thats true. wel I dont have much faith in the fda anyhow since they change their minds all the time anyhow. they didnt even approve some medicine my dad had to take for his cancer and we had to get it from someplace else too.
i know hcg cant be bad bad bad since it is fda apprved and used everyday for women to get pregnant like you said and all. OH! and i did call a fertility clinic yesterday to ask them about this, and they laughed and said that it will be a long time before its prescribed regularly for weightlosing  becuase it is not covered under most major insurances!!!!! she said it took a long while before they could use it for fertility too.  now that got me thinking... she wouldnt tell me if it worked but she didnt deny it would either. so i didnt get much out of her other then how insurance wont pay for fertility drugs either. so maybe thats why its such a big hush hush thing? I dont know. we live in a wierd world.

but fightu you didnt answer my question =p if you are fat too, what do are you using? do you take drugs? Drugs are bad, mmmkay!?! LOL no seriously tho lol
and you are kinda mad and mean to people sometimes maybe they would listen to your opinions more if you dint call them puppets. I dont think people like that. although i feel like a puppet at the gym when they guy is trying to sell me energy water - if you all dont know what that is, its water with cafeeine or garuna in it. DUH

[foreverthin]

I didn't say it was his post. See how everything revolves around him. Some "thinking out of the box" person wrote that post. And see the name calling. He just assumed I'm fat. Now he'll ask why are you here if your not fat. I ask that back, and it will go on and on. Want me to post the terms and conditions for you guys. Looks like some haven't read it. You can be 'turned in' for just derogetory comments. PLEASE STOP TALKING TO HIM!!!

People are here seeking help and advise to start this program. Hopefully those who have already finished it long ago will come back to state their progress, but who knows. I do urge those who lost weight months ago to add to the discussion and also those who did it in the 70's to tell us too. I've read about people who did it then and kept it off for 20 years

[fightu35]

I have a  ? who made her the pro ? are you her stooge ? lol shes got you people brain washed..shes out dated...full of nonsense..and a wanna be doctor..lol good luck to you..:)

[onvibrate]

just had to step in. i came to this site a couple of weeks ago to post some info that Orathin was not oral hcg, not having read all the posts and i didn't know he was here. i had never spoken to him. he attacked immediately. he's nice to those who agree with him, or will at least give him the benefit of the doubt. he doesn't "respect" anyone with differing opinions as you can see from above.

[fightu35]

so not true..see...your doing it again...just leave me b ,debate is fine..smart azz remarks are not..want to debate with me..thats fine..Satriana does not agree with everything I say..and seems she is going to try it..but atleast shes not attacking me for posting truth..facts..and for not 100% agreeing with her..I wish her the best..her..jen..and another have all 'typed' me in respect..so i do it back..we can start right now..if not ,thats on you..

[onvibrate]

anyone can look up my first post and see what you said. i did not lie.

[onvibrate]

i included her in the people that give you the benefit of the doubt. if we totally disagree with you, you call us names and its on the record. debate is impossible with a self-proclaimed know-it-all who just thinks we're just a stooge, or on someone's payroll, or a puppet. that is not debate. i'm going to the sites where debate is real.

[fightu35]

see..your still doing it.......sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[onvibrate]

again he says nothing - a non debate - only hinting at me being stupid i guess. i don't even know what that means.

so here it is Satriana and any newcomers. this week its future birth defects and having trouble having babies to scare you. last week it was 'urine urine urine'. But think about it, how does hcg, which is used in larger doses by baby doctors as a fertility drug, cause future 'baby troubles' in the future in smaller doses?

This diet protocol was developed by a doctor A.T.W. Simeons who studied it for 20 years. He used it on his patients with almost 100% success during that time and he did not get rich off of it. It was kept pretty quiet. He wrote it down in a booklet called "POUNDS AND INCHES" which is possible to get a copy and that is the proof.

just because the medical and diet food industry doesn't want anyone cutting into their profits is not proof that its all a scam. they set out to stop this 'cure' from getting out. have you heard what the FDA just did to Sweet Leaf brand Stevia? it's a natural product, so they are not allowed to advertise themselves as a sweetener. but the chemical pink stuff, yellow stuff, blue stuff, and xyl something stuff is allowed to.

people who have been thin most of their lives and gained and then lost it the way he says (which is exactly right) don't need hcg. those of us who have yo-yo'ed in weight with fad diets, diet food and diet drinks laden with chemicals, on starvation or very low calorie diets over the years have our bodies in starvation protection mode. the metabolism is low and the hunger is high, and its stuck that way. the body doesn't want to die, so it will not release the secure fat that it has put aside (in strange places - me its the upper hip) unless completely necessary! hcg 'tricks' the body into releasing that fat and helps get the body out of starvation protection mode. then eating the right foods will at the same time, will get the metabolism back up and the hunger and cravings back down. back to normal, like in a thin person.

He'll rant and rave about this now, but you read the book and decide for yourselves. it was the last piece of the puzzle for me after 25 years of battling my weight. if you don't want to try it, that's perfectly fine. if so, you won't ruin your life and you're not a moronic puppet. there's many, many success stories and lots of people who are in the same boat as you are that will cheerfully encourage you all the way.


btw... here's his first post to me. i had never typed to him or read any of his stuff before...

"all you do is psot other sites & peoples info...go read some books..then post..ha ha trying to make it like you 'know' this stuff...lol I knew about HCG 12 yrs ago..lol it was junk then...its junk now...other then makeing guys testies bigger /not shrink "

[onvibrate]

[fightu35]

still going i see..lol when ever your ready to end it..let me know...you can ignore me..and DO NOT comment on any post..i type..or we can debate as me & satriana does..up to you..have a great day

[Satriana]

=(   dont argue. Its bad enough dealing with things as it is.  I think we all need a group hug!!!

[fightu35]

if you notice i have not..and will not..lol play on !

[Satriana]

Dork. =p

[txwoman34]

i have a question since you know about going to websites on getting information. do you know of any websites that i can find information on other people that have had problems with taking phentermine? health problems like i have had? i have gone to messageboards and aksed if anyones had major problems with phentermine but nothing has been said. its not i want people to have major problems with taking phentermine i just want to know if other people are having problems like i am or am i just a rare case.

[fightu35]

you can use  any search engine...Im sure you find many..but keep in mind most are 'spam' boards and will be manipulated anyway they see fit..like on here..Im hateed because Im not agreeing with HCG is a GOD send..why..because I report truth..facts..and real reports..I asked those here 2 months ago to show me proof..from 1 real doctor....website..or blog..that is not selling anything...........Im still waiting...I can send you some info on it if you would like...just let me know..as I said many times..I most of the time report real findings..not just what I think...when I dont go along with THEM like Kevin The Criminal wants..they bash me......well I can not be brain washed..I laughed so hard I almost broke a rib at the 'people' here who claim they lost 20 lbs in 18 days.......30 lbs in 29 days..100% scientificaly impossible.. 100% can not be done..sure I lost 30 lobs in 26 days once.....not fat.........I once lost 12 lbs in 3 hrs.......again not FAT...you seem to have a good outlook..just learn and becarefull........talk to your own doctors..not websites..and if you look into HCG talk to a baby doctor......I promise $1,000 they do not agree with anyone here..which Satriana has already proven......its common sense..any  ?'s just ask..I have some good info on PHENT...good luck

[onvibrate]

http://hcgdietinfo.com/HCG_Diet_Simeons_Manuscript.htm

[onvibrate]

truth - hcg is natural and safe. fact - most doctors have never tried it on any patient and do not know anything about it. only what they read in the AMA journals. i could find thousands that don't like it, but that is not proof. most doctors know about drugs that are made in labs and know how to treat symptoms. truth - natural substances get to the root of the problem. fact - baby doctors use hcg as a fertility drug. fact - saying its side effects (at a greatly smaller dose) are birth defects is nonsense. Dr. Simeons was not a criminal, nor a profiteer. Read his stuff and decide for yourselves.

[fightu35]

THE DR is not a criminal no.......I never said that That scum bag TREADUE IS..AND WHAT FACTS ? HOW ABOUT FACTS IT WORKS..LOL
and you put 'read for yourselfs' yes.....from a product seller..lol show me proof from 1 real dr..1 real medical org..or jounral..lmao !

[onvibrate]

no you never said THAT. because you just use 'trudeau hatred' to help push your anti-hcg agenda and ignore the real doctor who studied this diet for 20 years, wrote down everything he did to develop it and what he came up with and who died 30 years ago, not rich from this diet, not a spammer!! obesity was rare in the 50's and he was fascinated by it. the manuscript is posted on a sight and people can read it. just the manuscript only, with nothing to buy. even you, if you dare to read the facts in his paper. and don't tell me you have. i'm not buying it. the only 'debate' you want is for us to say "hey dorky baby, tell me all you know about everything, 'cause you're so smart!".
you're not the only one whose l' ing your ao!

[fightu35]

OK I have 1  ? why are you people so brain washed bye dr  simmon..?? does he pay you ?

and you 100% beleive everything you read ? just like that crook DR ATKINS..his sales pitch was...'while helping his heart paitents...he found a weight loss cure !! notice not 1 of the 1,000's he helped 'by accident' every came forward...let me guess....you fell for atkins BS also........the biggest diet scma in US history..and was admitted in court his diet was based on lies.100%..this is checkible... your a brain washed non educate dperson on weight loss..stop pimping the yahoo site..and dr simmons...HCG does not in anyway shrink fat cells...or body builders would use it...for FAT loss..they use it widely..to help keep there 'balls' from shrinking....hmm..odd..why isent fat loss a side affect ?? hmm...im waiting...why do pregant girls get and stay fat....im waiting...show proof..or leave this board..PROOF FROM A NON SELLING SITE..AND OR DOCTOR...there is even a rumor..someone behind closed doors..is behind the so called 'LOOK WE FOUND A WEIGHT LOSS CURE BY MISTAKE.BY SOME GUY NAMED DR.SIMMONS" DAMM..IM SO SMART SOMETIMES..PROOF...STILL WAITING..CALL ME WITH IT..
401-737-2244

[fightu35]

YOU SAID
"if you dare to read the facts "

UMM..PROVE THERE  FACTS HUNNY............YOU CAN NOT END OF STORY..IF THIS WHERE TRUE IT WOULD BE A BILLION DOLLAR COMPANY BY NOW..GET A CLUE SON

[onvibrate]

you say the dumbest things and think you sound so smart and that you win every argument. everything you just asked above has already been answered completely and scientifically and you just hoo hoo, so YOU get off this site. that DOCTOR is dead! he can't pay me and no one can make BILLIONS on it because its cheap and a permanent fix if you do it right. and BTW, i did NOT like the adkins diet at all. i yelled at people who did it, and told everyone he probably died from lack of carbs. telling people not to eat fruit!! absurb! debate is when people argue points. its not telling the other person how stupid, ignorant or uneducated they are. you do call names. and doing what you do ("i just treat people like i'm treated" huh! - even if it was true) is NOT what they mean by doing onto others!

[fightu35]

Ok no more..im done bickering..i  wish you the very the best,with or with out this diet...but ,please show me proof..from other then simmopns himself.Kevin the scum bag...and a website or dr. who does not sell the product...im still waiting..no one can do it..

[onvibrate]

ok for me too. i am not here to provide you with proof though. Simeons using it on patients and developing it over TWENTY (20) years is good enough for me. all i wanted to do was to post that orathin was not oral hcg, which is truth, and you messed up my thread by saying that i try to make it look like i know something. got on my wrong side and i had never said anything to you. so i will thank you for also ending it.

[fightu35]

In all fairness..trust me..I want sdolid proof it works...Im asking very nicely..can you show me proof ? and you  say simeons helped so many..ok..where..how..and where is the proof ? like atkins so called help 100's of heart people 'by-mistake' and found the fat cure !! ,but NOT 1 person ever..ever..came forward and say hey..atkins helped me..before he became a book seller..so..proof would be great...your telling me something you was told,and read..not seen..or have proven..I will not ask again...I know there is no proof out there..,but please send if you find any.. and for the fun of it...any  comments about this..post..


"You can understand HOW IT WOULD WORK" yes that's there sales pitch...sounds good doesn't it..the body thinks your pregnant when your not(not good) so  the fat cells release energy to feed the baby (again there is no baby) so you think you can trick the body and fat cells huh.......here's more proof of the 'SALES PITCH" look at the book...they clearly say the same diet with out HCG = the same weight loss (duh its only 500 calories) but with HCG you will lose fat in 'abnormal areas' OMG WTF this is some made up term..lol to sell people...fat is fat..just like you can not spot reduce..lol so magically you inject HCG pulled out though urine..and you fool ya fat cells to take fat off from all the girls trouble spots(odd, just what girls want to hear)..
ps im asking you ..and friendly debateing..no more ..no less...either way good luck to you..be safe

[onvibrate]

that post makes no sense to me and i have never heard of that 'sales pitch'. you have been answered on that "same weight loss" question before. it just goes around in circles here. the only proof you accept is from those who agree with you. if someone says "hcg doesn't work", you call it proof. If someone says some doctor said it doesn't work, you say "Proof!". i can't provide proof for you under those conditions. and many, many people have told you what they have 'seen' or have 'proven for themselves' and you call them liars. i wish you luck too.

[fightu35]

nooo silly willy....but in truth..show me 1 med org........med journal...expert..(not selling it) any thing please !!  lol have a good night

[Satriana]

blah blah blah blah blah....want proof? Check out my ever shrinking ass....

just kidding. LOL..I just thought this thread needed a giggle after all the serious stuff.

shh, I will go to the corner ow and hush. lol

[fightu35]

well.................im waiting...lets see it....
*must be smaller then mine

[nonnadebi]

Can you not read.  Go read what many many people have written that have personally experienced and have had wonderful success.  All you ever say is you must be selling it or you are being paid to say it worked.  If you could only see how stupid you sound then maybe you would quit telling every one they are stupid or brainwashed.  There is no way that you can 100% know anything works or does not work but you keep saying "I know 100% that don't work " stuff like that.  No wonder no one wants to take you serious.

Debi

[fightu35]

you for 1 thing..PROOF.........

[Satriana]

For all those who are justa hatin the poor guy...

Yes he is as abrasice as a brillo pad in what he is saying, and yes he might come across as a know it all sometimes, but I truly think he does care. He hasnt tried to sell a thing and he does respond to quite a few posts on other forums and isnt received so harshly. Yes,  he might be annoying in the way he speaks, but if you can look past that, he does have good info and is just expressing his opinions like everyone else here.  I have seen people be just as mean to him as he is to others...so it that resepct, I think the insults fly both ways.

(sorry fightu, no offense, just calling it as I see it =p )

The name calling is a bit much tho kiddo.  People might be more willing to hear what you have to say if you stop calling them brainwashed morons lol

People will believe what they want to. Thats just how it is.

[fightu35]

MOST ARE 100% BRAIN WASHED...no need to defend me..Im right..they are wrong..ok thats it where do I get HCG !! ill inject pee pee to prove it ok !

(a foot note,why does everyone refuse to face these magic calories released from fat cells,from taken HCG GOES THOUGH THE PREGANT WOMENS FETUS..SO LET ME ASK YOU PEOPLE...ARE YOU PREGO ? DO YOU HAVE A FETUS ?)

[Satriana]

well its not exactly peepee dork. I have read that much. Its a glycoprotein or something like that which has effects on the body for luetinizing something for the hypothalmus to recognize or suppress estrogen...omg I read so much its starting to blur. Anyhow....needles? *shiver* lol I dont even like to swallow big pills let alone pokey pokey!!

Im not defending you per se, I am defending the right for everyone to have an opinion (since yours seems to be the one that gets everyone so hot under the collar) - whether I agree with it or not. However, on that same note, if someone wants to take hcg, you should let them do what they want to do without being prosecuted for it. If thats what they want to do, let them. YOu truly dont need to post on every post saying the same thing over and over - they can read, they know the doubts and they will do what they want. I understand you feel passionate about this, but you have to let people be who they want, do what they want, and live how they want without being criticized at every turn. I agree its good to post the apposing factors, for others to decide, so I am not saying not to post, just dont be so "in your face, how stupid of you" when they do.

Let live and all that peaceful stuff.

[Satriana]

oh and for the opposing thoughts on that same thought....just because he (fightu) doesnt bow to the hcg gods, doesnt mean he is wrong. But for those who are losing weight on hcg, I am not saying you are wrong either.

Not everything in life is black and white.

[fightu35]

hows your fetus ? since thats the only way HCG releases anything..lol ba BA HA HA

[Satriana]

the only way for hcg to be produced is in the first 3 months of a pregnant woman.  It diminsihes to nothign after that. And not everyone who uses it has a fetus. =/  Unless like...you are special I guess.

[fightu35]

thats my point...the so called useing FAT to feed the babby (thats not there) goes though the fetus !! so explain this..............and where is everyone getting there HCG ? maybe ill do it..just to prove my point to myself..lol

[onvibrate]

the baby and the fetus are the same thing. what are you trying to say?

[fightu35]

umm..if your not pregant...who are feeding ? ya self..so ya putting back the fat.(since theres no baby to go to..).lol what are you feeding your 'non' baby though ?

[onvibrate]

what????????????

[fightu35]

yor takeing HCG..but your not pregant....the calories  that HCG claims to pull out of myour fat cells to feed the baby..goes though the fetus...but your NOT prenant..so who you feeding ?? yourself...lol

[kaliman]

My Doctor claims it is eliminated through urine , that is why it has me drinking so much water 1 &1/2 gallons a day.

[kattraff]

this  was amusing     you are so funny.....I see you have a sense of  humor I sat and laughed at some of the things you really don't know...Your not so bad

[fightu35]

I do know all !! ,well more then 99% here ! its sad how lil people know..but more sad how  much they listen  to con men..liers..and criminals like KEVIN (notso) TRUDEAU  but hey..all in fun son !

[kattraff]

I don't believe everything Kevin T says    I took HCg injections  back when as you said Dr.s were getting paid 100,000  to sit in a little office part time and inject HCG. Everything was hush hush and you only found out about it through others that were going to the little part time clinic...you are right about that...but i did loose weight  and am still alive 30 years later  although i think they did change the diet some

[nonnadebi]

  Gosh I did not know that God was posting.  How funny  " I do know all!!"  If you would quit trying to make this so small.  You have some experience in HCG being used by muscle builders or what ever.  That does in no way mean that is the only action HCG has.  If you would brush up on your reading comprehension.  HCG does not cause weight lose.  When you are pregnant it helps the fat cells release their nutrients for the baby to utilize in the form of calories (food if you will) so  it will grow and thrive.
                      NOW              
   When you are trying to lose weight.  I will try to explain this in simple terms.  If you can slow down and don't be so hostile it makes perfect sense.  Here Goes

Your body can not maintain a VLCD for an extended period of time.  You will lose some weight,  You will lose some bad fat, some structural fat, and muscle.  You will look haggard, you will be extremely fatigued.  Can pass out and a whole number of things.  The HCG works in your body getting your fat cells to release the nutrients (just like when you are pregnant)  except the nutrients are utilized by the body as energy.(the energy is released in the form of calories)  It helps you too feel good and helps control your hunger so your body can maintain a VLCD, and LOSE WEIGHT.

Some one please tell me that made sense.  It is so easy to prove if you just read any study done on it and in Dr S. "Pounds & Inches"


You are not giving anyone any credit.  You say you just want to warn people and that we should leave them alone.  I too do not care for Kevin.  and he may have changed or added something or what ever.  Still the protocol by Dr. S is what his basic point is.  If you really believe that YOU KNOW EVERYTHING than I feel sorry for you.  You are doing more harm than good posting here.  The other people on this forum are not telling anyone to do this, they are saying as am I, that each person needs to research and investigate until they are comfortable making their decision either way.

To all you posting your success, please continue, I believe your posts are encouraging to the majority.

God Bless

Debi

[nonnadebi]

I forgot to tell you besides the clinics people have been posting about.  Any Doctor is allowed to prescribe HCG.  There are many that won't probably because they stay so busy that unless they need to research it for some reason, don't prescribe it because they don't know enough about it at that time.  And if you would just get on any little ol search engine and ask, you would have many places that sale it.  Surely you can do that much for your self.  So you can try it and "prove your point to your self"  I am sure you would never admit it if it worked for you.  You just want to argue with people.  I guess that must be you hobby.

Debi

[fightu35]

Great post Debi....ok so I only have 2  ? 's ok....you said

"When you are pregnant it helps the fat cells release their nutrients for the baby to utilize in the form of calories (food if you will) so  it will grow and thrive"

this is true...but this happens in a pregant women(non here are) and this happens though the fetus....so...

and I have 1 lil very simple request.. proof...from a real medical journal..,froma  dr. not selling it....etc.....then I will go off into the sunlight...every time I ask this..I get nothing..or some stupid blog or site in which Its a spammer.dr.or salesmen...and I notice most here ignore Satriana posts..hmm..why...go read some and see what her findings,found...they are ignored because shes not 'follower' but tells the truth..and I wish to fight with noone..and do not..i type to those ,how Im typed to do..just look around..thanks  for the info..I look forward to your reply...
and the know it all was a joke..lets lighten up a bit here..

[onvibrate]

read this slowly and a couple of times. why do you expect responses to people who tell other people, who are actually doing the diet and having great success with it, that it doesn't work? if they did respond, they'd have to say, ONCE AGAIN, that it IS working for them. But if they did say that, once again, they'd only be called a liar and asked for proof other than what they have already proven to themselves. this is actually quite funny to watch. also Satty said she had some kind of special problem that the doctor didn't like that stopped him from wanting her to do the hcg. also, she says to you, that you two 'both know why hcg users are losing the weight, wink, wink',.. which is exactly the whole point of hcg. it helps you stay healthily on the vlcd for a long enough period to lose all the weight you need to. ohhhhh, YES IT DOES! it's also funny to watch you lambast everyone on this site who uses it, lie about how you are to them as they are to you, and then when you ask where to find hcg, and no one wants to help you, you tell them they are no help. well, duh. no one is avoiding or gaining up against the non-users. they are just seeing how useless responding to some people is, while they are off losing tons of weight and feeling great! the best revenge i guess. have a marvelous day with you and your 'truth'.

[onvibrate]

you forget one thing.....no one cares if you ever get it or not.
yawnnnnnnnnnnn

[fightu35]

you forgot 1 thing.........PROOF !! IM STILL WAITING..