Dr. Siemons manuscript

[edwards112]

See the post below:

[edwards112]

Below is a post I sent to Nightowl on the natural cures form:  I don't know if you have access to the Dr. Siemons orginal manuscript like we do on the natural cures site, so I'm passing on these thoughts and would appreciate what your feelings are.  I am in no way trying to discourage or frighten anyone.  The protocol WILL work just fine.  Since we are going it alone and not under a Dr.'s care, I am hoping we could discuss these import issues.

Here is what i shared with Nightowl:

I just completely read Dr. Siemons manuscript.  Now I am confused.  KT has changed several things in his book that are not outlined in the manuscript.  Nightowl mentioned a couple of them.  The melba toast and no artificial sugars. I can understand the sugar issue, but the toast (starch) is specifically mentioned as needed by Dr. Siemons.

“When local conditions or the feeding habits of the population make changes necessary it must be borne in mind that the total daily intake must not exceed 500 Calories if the best possible results are to be obtained, that the daily ration should contain 200 grams of fat-free protein and a very small amount of starch”  (page 8)

Secondly, is the size of the dose:  KT says between 125 iu and 200 iu.  Dr. Siemons says:

“contain the 125 I.U. Which is the standard dose for all cases and which should never be exceeded”  (page 7) and again he states:

“. If the daily dose of HCG is raised to 200 or more units daily its action often appears to be reversed.” (pg 7).

Thirdly, is the length of the treatment:  KT says a maximum of 45 days and Dr. Siemons says:

“When a patient has more than 15 pounds to lose the treatment takes longer but the maximum we give in a single course is 40 injections, nor do we as a rule allow patients to lose more than 34 lbs. (15 Kg.) at a time. The treatment is stopped when either 34 lbs. have been lost or 40 injections have been given. The only exception we make is in the case of grotesquely obese patients who may be allowed to lose an additional 5-6 lbs. if this occurs before the 40 injections are up.” (page 7).

The 40 injections Dr.. Siemons goes on to say is to avoid becoming immune to the hcg.

“The reason for limiting a course to 40 injections is that by then some patients may begin to show signs of HCG immunity. Though this phenomenon is well known, we cannot as yet define the underlying mechanism. Maybe after a certain length of time the body learns to break down and eliminate HCG very rapidly, or possibly prolonged treatment leads to some sort of (ouncrregulation which annuls the dencepbahic effect.” (Page 7)

My initial thoughts are to follow the manuscript since KT hasn’t explained the reason for the changes and we can’t ask him why.  I am going to at least drop my daily injections to 125 iu or max 150 iu. And add the melba toast.  Whether I go 40 or 45 days I can determine later as I see how I progress with my weight loss.

The last difference, which to me I could care less about is the messages during the treatment.  Kt suggest getting them and Dr. Siemons says:

“I never allow any kind of massage during treatment. It is entirely unnecessary and merely disturbs a very delicate process which is going on in the tissues.” (page 10).

While his manuscript was written to professional Doctors, it well important to know what he says:

Dr. Siemons final words  state: “ I must beg those trying the method for the first time to adhere very strictly to the technique and the interpretations here outlined and thus treat a few hundred cases before embarking on experiments of their own, and until then refrain from introducing innovations, however thrilling they may seem. In a new method innovations or departures from the original technique can only be usefully evaluated against a substantial background of experience with what is at the moment the orthodox procedure”. (page 13).

So now we have a new issue to talk through.  I look forward to hearing your input.

Edwards112

[Milestar]

What do you mean about the melbas? Can you have them or not? The clinic I go to in TN I can have them they are following the protocol. Is there a certain about to eat? The dose I am getting is between .125 and .2.

[edwards112]

My opinion is if you are under a doctors care, then follow their proceedure.  Much of what you read in these post are from those who are gooing at it alone.  So the many and often changing information is our process of making sure we do it correct.

Melba toast is what Dr. Simeons says in his manuscript.  It should be 100% organic if you use it.  Another lady using a clinic said they provide her with Ryecrisp.  If your clinic is provding you with some, I would just continue to use that.

Godd luck with your program.

edwards112

[elica]

As I remember from Kevin's book, he doesn't want us to take the shot during the menstrual period. Considering that you have your period once during the six weeks, that gives you ruffly 40 shots(average period lasts about five days), which is the same as Dr. Siemons protocol.
People that go through the clinic in TN take shots during the period too, but have break every weekend for two days, and the program still work for them.

[edwards112]

Someone kindly sent me this post on the natural cures form:

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edwards112

Regarding the changes to the protocol that Kevin made he answers why on pages 123 in the Frequently Asked Questions.

Remember that Dr. Simeon's did his protocol in the 50's and 60's. Kevin states that doctors in the 1970s and 1980s began dealing with patients with many more issues and causes of abnormal hypothalamus activity than Simeons dealt with. Therefore, they began researching with slightly higher amounts of hCG. It was found that between 175 and 200 IEs were the optimal daily doses. So the minimum to take is 125 and the max of 200.

Regarding the exclusion of the melba toast or breadstick it was found that by eliminating them from the lunch and dinner meals speeds up the fat burning process.

As far as the artificial sweetners, I think we all know that those are big no-nos. I think that in Simeons day they didn't have the research yet on all the side effects of them.

But like Michelle said, she is eating the Rycrisp without it causing a problem. So I think it is up to each individual if they want to include it or not. Or you can try one week without it and the next with it and see if it makes a difference to you.

I just ordered my hCG from anabolic-pharma.com last night and they sent me an email today saying it has been shipped.

I looking forward to using the protocol.

Thank you to everyone who did so much research and gave us the information to be able to find hCG, order it and use it.

Everyone already using the protocol please let everyone else know how you are doing.

Mischell
South Florida
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I'm  okay with everything now.  The lenght vs getting immune is still a minor concern.  I should be able to evaluate that as I get near the 40 days.

Thanks for your imput everyone.

Sorry if I worried anyone with this post, but I really needed some additional imput.  I think we are all okay.  Just read the QA in KT's book for more details.

edwards112

[myhealthmatters2me]

AT the clinic here in Houston. The injection they give is 125 iu or .5 CC per week and .1CC of B12. At the present the clinic is trying to go to daily injections, however the Doctor who oversees the program, will not allow any changes at this time until there is enough data research to say that the daily shots will safely benefit.  They present you with a 1200 or 1600 calories program to follow.  Of course, in order to lose a pound we must burn or eat less than what our body needs to keep us at the weight we are.  To lose a lb. we must eat or burn 3500 calories.   Some weeks I eat less I lose.  Some weeks I don't and I don't lose.

I ordered my product, the syringes and vials, water, etc.  I plan to follow the program close to .5 CC per day (125 iu).  Consume the 500 calories as KT recommends.  I hope anyway.  I enjoy eating, so I do hope that I am serious about skipping a few meals.  

If somehow I am close to  losing 34 lbs in 40 days, - then by golly I don't mind a break for 2 months....

Stay in touch.  Appreciate all the information everyone has come up with.

[edwards112]

Thanks for getting back with me about this subject.  It seems clearer now.  I agree that KT's version is based more around our modern contaminated food problem and after reading his reasoning  about the change in the protocol on page 123 in his QA my panic alarm has been turned off.

Thanks again for your post.

edwards112

[edwards112]

I think you are right.  Dr. S started with 'cleaner' patients then todays 'poluted' ones (that be me).  Probably why KT suggested a higher dose.

I did a good cleanse within the last year, but have not been on organic foods and I am not doing phase 1.  Nightowl and I have been discussing this on the natural cures forum as well.  I have decided to go with 175 IU.  We know that 125 IU WILL work , especially if you start with a 'cleaner' body like you said.

I look forward to hearing the success posts from everyone.  Good luck to you and all who are braving this new approch.

edwards112

[mitschi]

I have a question on the HCG. I just received my order of 5000 IU and one ampule of solvent. Since this is all very new for me and I am doing this in my own: Does any of you know how you measure the HCG? Only up to 200IU should be taken daily and once mixed with the solvent it is only good for a couple of days.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Mitschi

[Nekke]

What clinic do you go to in TN?  Where is it located?  Address or phone number, Please?  I haven't been able to find anything.

[Hawkeyes]

Hey can anyone tell me a local Doctor in the Concord California Area that does the hCG injections? I need this ASAP. Email it to my address and do not harvest this address (The same as you see my nickname on this post)@california.com .  I do not need anymore spam or junk mail so if you use this email address please be sure it is only for an answer to this post. Thank you very much!

[Stunninglife]

Opinions please!  I was on hcg for 6 weeks at between 175 and 200 units.  I lost 26 pounds; not as good as KT, but I'm happy.  I then mistakenly thought that taking 3 weeks off and onto phase 3 was ok (I actually took 3 1/2 weeks off).  I started again for one week but then read that it's actually good to take 6 weeks off between treatments.  Now that I've been off it for 3 1/2 weeks and on it again for 1 week and have now quit again, how long should I take off before starting again?  

[duke468]

[lcordell24]

Can anyone tell me about a local doctor in Miami, florida that use DR. Simeons protocol?

[lcordell24]

Can you tell me where to get the HCG injections and the price.