Dr. Simeons vs. Kevin Trudeau

I've read Dr. Simeons manuscript on the hcg diet info website and I'm curious what the general consensus is on the two protocols between Kevin Trudeau and Dr. Simeons.  Which protocol are you following and how do you compare the two?   Is one considered safer than the other?   Is one considered more effective?

Also, I see a lot of posts from people bashing Trudeau- but very few talking against Simeons.  From what I understand, Trudeau just took Dr. Simeons hcg weight loss protocol and added information from other dr's as far as cleansing, etc.  Is the anti-hcg perspective only aimed at Trudeau's person and not at the diet itself?  

[FactReporter]

off DR simmons..unless he sold HCG..well he dont..so he got paid to say to cleanse..buy this..buy that..........hes a low life

[FactReporter]

no Kevin took it..and turned it into you must buy all this stuff he tells you to buy..because he got paid to say that..hes a con man...how would you make any $$

[onvibrate]

so after that gibberish.
good questions.
i have read different sites and many people's comments. it does seem that all the people who are anti-hcg are so because they hate, no, detest Trudeau. they are usually not very overweight, either, if at all. they first tell you that you have gone under some spell of this guy and then they state, (just like its a fact that they already know and are positive that they right about), and say that you have not done ANY research, and then they call you an idiot. then they proceed to tell you how they know to lose weight. if they have even heard of Simeon's, they always just dismiss him, and go back to talking about Trudeau.
The difference between the two? it's just that the food supply was so different back in Simeon's day and obesity was rare. the stuff that Trudeau adds is, as he says, all optional, but helpful. the pure Simeon's diet can be done by itself, and will get the same results that he got with almost 100% of his patients. i've been pro-organic, all-natural for years now. i'm just doing Simeon's diet just as he said.

[FactReporter]

good post...and no BS..no bitching...im being honest.......show me 1 study /proof from a real medical jounral ,or doctor ,THAT IS NOT SELLING IT that it works..hate me thats fine..but do you not read my posts ? I posted facts.about the true side affects...the fact HCG  is no more then 220 ammino acids (protein) and protein does do anything to fat cells.......Ive posted from the countrys top steroid,hormone seller..he said it was junk....AND HE SELLS IT !! ...I posted where a study proved weight loss with out the drug is the same...I proved they coined the phrase " LOSE FAT FROM 'STUBBORN' / ABNORMAL AREAS..!!!!!!!!" THIS IS A MADE UP SALES PITCH STATEMENT..AND CAN NOT BE DONE..not with out liposuction and or steroids..this is a fact 100% iron clad......I asked 2 baby doctors..and they laughed at it..I posted what HCG is...and does in a pregant women...and it in no way says anything about magicaly feeding the baby...(i can repost this) so instead of ignoreing everything  I post..and disagreeing..only to disagree........go back and read some of my posts...now lets be an adult..and I look forward to your reply....

[onvibrate]

your posts are from those who hate hcg for some reason or another. yes, the ama and fda haven't approved of this. yes, most doctors poo poo at it. all of this we already know. facts and truth can get lost in all of this. what we are very positive about is our own experiences. we know that after all of the stuff that we have done through the years has only in the long run, made us bigger. i am not attempting to convince you personally. i am trying to counter you so that desperate people, who just may find an answer in this way, and its not for everyone, that those people will not be totally discouraged and miss their chance. FACT: this diet does work. people are the proof.
you say you posted from someone who sells it, but didn't identify him. we have identified our sources. maybe your seller sells to athletes? Yes, abnormal fat can be lost. this is a whole new paradigm. you've only studied ways to discredit this diet. 'magically feeding the baby'? please!!! i don't disagree only to disagree. that is what you do. go back yourself. lets be an adult? YES, finally!!! it has finally been a pleasure talking to you.

[FactReporter]

ok last  ? jsut what is 'ABNORMAL FAT' please tell me...........

and yes the claim is your body release ,from fat cells to feed 'your baby' and takeing HCG tricks the body into doing this.. but they leave out ,this is some what done though the fetus..but if your not pregnant..then no fetus...ok this will be the last time I try this..then we shall let it go :)
read what HCG is and doe..and show me where this leads to fat loss..

    """hCG interacts with the LHCG receptor and promotes the maintenance of the corpus luteum during the beginning of pregnancy causing it to secrete the hormone progesterone. Progesterone enriches the uterus with a thick lining of blood vessels and capillaries so that it can sustain the growing fetus. Due to its highly negative charge hCG may repel the immune cells of the mother, protecting the fetus during the first trimester. It has also been hypothesized that hCG may be a placental link for the development of local maternal immunotolerance. For example, hCG-treated endometrial cells induce an increase in T cell apoptosis (dissolution of T-cells). These results suggest that hCG may be a link in the development of peritrophoblastic immune tolerance and may facilitate the trophoblast invasion which is known to expedite fetal development in the endometrium.[1] It has also been suggested that hCG levels are linked to the severity of morning sickness in pregnant women.[2]

Because of its similarity to LH, hCG can also be used clinically to induce ovulation in the ovaries as well as testosterone production in the testes. As the most abundant biological source is women who are presently pregnant, some organizations collect urine from gravidae to extract hCG for use in fertility treatment""""".
           Seems.,.HCG does alot..I see nothing about feeding..or emptying fat cells...

   ----------AND  also HCG is hundreds of ammino acids...(proteins) again..protein is good yes..but does not 'trick' your body into release fat stores...
I look forward to your reply....

[Satriana]

wow....I go away fro a few weeks and come back to the same arguement over and over and over and over...lol

Life is toooo short. There will always be people who agree and people who disagree. Thats the beauty of free will.

But even in free will, there comes a time to LIVE AND LET LIVE....seriously....

Some ppl really believe in hcg and all it does...and some dont. Trying to convince each other of your own point of view is pointless.  I am not saying either is wrong or right...but its obvious you are at an impass...so why not just let it be?

[FactReporter]

i state facts..no more...no less..

( 3 months later still no PROOF) CASE CLOSED

[spiralz06]

I have read Kevvie's book(s) and I find that the hcG thing - injections - are also to be followed with  a Diet, darn!  A diet that seems as if there isn't enough cookies. No chips and dips. No ice cream. Could the diet-lower calorie intake- help in assisting the body to burn more fat? If you eat less, will more fat be used? I wonder what would happen if I ran away from the syringe, would this type of activity  assist in weight loss as well?  (for sitting here hour after hour ain't doin nuttin for my ***)

   Limit calorie intake...increase activity. No cookies.  Forget it. Give me the shots--I'll take my chances on re-ovulation or "manning" myself.  But what really gets me is: no goodies.

[Kylla]

Medical Journals?  Doctors?  They're shills for the Big Pharma -- I wouldn't be so foolish as to place blind trust in medical journals on the take, nor their seal-trained doctors....

There's a book out called:  The Truth About the Drug Companies: How They Deceive Us and What to Do About It (written by a former 20 year staff member at the New Englan Journal of Medicine).  Very eye opening -- and not too favorable toward MEDICAL JOURNALS.


The Big Fix: How the Pharmaceutical Industry Rips Off American Consumers (Publicaffairs Reports)


Selling Sickness: How the World's Biggest Pharmaceutical Companies Are Turning Us All into Patients

All 3 books cited above are available at Amazon.  I wouldn't put blind faith in medical journals, nor their Big Pharma sponsored studies -- all to increase sharehold value higher and higher.

Anecdotal evidence, such as that cited here, has more of a ring of truth.  And I usually scroll past the angry ranters -- too emotionall unstable and interested in pushing their screaming agenda.  No thanks.

[onvibrate]

looks like others are commenting to you...hummmmmm

[roxyrun1]

What are to dangers in taking HCG? Does anyone know?

[FactReporter]

Im no fool......this world runs on $$$ yes..and I do not trust everyone either..I said medical journals..not RX companys...medical jr are not baught..and can not be baught...

[GonzoDC]

Interesting. Some of you with the name calling really need to back off. You have good things to say but you sound like my ex-wife...good person with some good things to say...all hidden behind emotional ranting.

It is simple: Not enough studies to be deifinitive. There are quite a few anectotal successes with hCG and there are failures. As there are with so many other things. I suppose it would be nice if we did a good study on this and publish it it would help. Anyone with research background want to join me?

[sammyv]

"Dr's" opinions and "studies" are often biased based upon what they were taught, and believe (much like opinions or studies from various liberal or conservative lawmakers or thi-tanks).

Folks, the diet regiment alone prescribed here will definitely make you lose weight.  No if's-ands-or buts.  Any one who can stick on this diet will lose weight - with or with out the HCG.  100%.  If the HCG helps release stored fat, FANTASTIC.  If it helps you feel better when you are dieting - FANTASTIC.  If it really helps you maitain weight loss and change your body make-up - FANTASTIC.
If all's it does is help you stay with the diet because you "think" good things are happening, that's okay too.  After everything I've read, I don't see any negatives.

* To "FactReporter":  Pre-Atkins Revolution (let's say 2002) 99.999999 of all doctors and "studies" were anti Atkins.  Anyone though that has tried it, and honestly stuck to it, has lost weight.  Lots of weight.  I have lived a quasi Atkins diet now for the last 5 years and have been up and down depending on how serious I live the diet.  Whenever I am serious about it, I lose weight.  I don't care what any "Dr" or "study" says, the freakin diet works.

I'm goin' on this and will keep you posted. -Sam

[FactReporter]

UMM.........as I always said....atkins is a scam and a joke.......this is checkible..in a fedral court atkins admitted his diet was based on false trials..and findings.........the real trick was..he knew that 90%  of people,when tols to eat all the fat they want..and lower carbs..they end up eating fewer calories.....easy as calories in........vs out..end of story..as with  the HCG nonsense..lol 500 calorie of course you lose weight..

and atkins diet is  as dead as him and has been for a few yrs..no one does low/no carb anymore..its smart.controlled carb as they call it...his wife sold the company before he was even stiff in the ground ,because of all the law suits that might follow the federal court truth..his diet wa a con job..as is HCG end of story....so come
back and see me in say 4-6 months..and we see..dont worry..I wont say 'I TOLD YOU SO'

and there is no name calling..thats ONI flirting with me :)

[Tan122]

Um, FACTReporter, its SIMEONS not Simmons.  Wouldn't want you to lose credibility in your future rants by misspelling essential names - otherwise you might look like an idiot.

[GonzoDC]

Ok. It is interesting how the word "proof" is used by people to blow off the possibility of something that may work. I cannot teach everyone on this board how the work "proof" and "studies" are used and misused. However, I can say this. If you are waiting for "proof" that the hCG diet works then you need to stand in line at the FDA and watch yourself die and and of old age before you get that proof. You are right SAMMY, Drs and studies do have some inherent biased. But for you to say that and imply all Drs and studies bias is bad is not very fair. There has to be some basis for good protocol for weight loss or anything else out there.

Too many people focus on weight loss and not the inherent issue: Metabolism. Anyone can lose weight. You can pay any weight loss franchise and lose weight. Apply a basic weight loss protocol to the masses and you have yourself a money maker, a weight loss business. Then BOOM, there the weight comes back again, and sometimes more. Very few of these programs address metabolism specifically to the individual. Some pretend to get a few labs and "review" them then apply the general franchise protocol to the client anyway.

What I find interesting about the hCG protocol is that I think it does address and improve the metabolism. But that is my "biased" opinion based on what I have been taught and what I know about metabolism. Obviously, a 500 calorie a day diet will make someone lose weight. Big DUH there. But I think it may just improve metabolism as well. Many questions need to be answered. What is the physiology of the metabolism change? How PERMANENT is the  metabolism change and the weight loss. What do you do AFTER you lose the weight? If you have had poor habits before the diet and revert back then what is the use? How do you maintain the weight loss? Will a basic improved change in eating habits ( no sodas, eat a high protein breakfast, eat mostly organic, etc) keep the weight off after the hCG diet?

I am about to start 3 people on the hCG diet. Simple case studies. Should be interesting. I am getting them to start a diary. We will see.

I may be biased, but I am a physician and I am interested in the most objective evidence that this will work. Or that it won't. I know if my patients stick with the diet they will lose weight. What I don;t know is if they can actually stick with it and what will happen after the diet is "done."  By the way, hCG in the dose given is plenty safe. Death is associated with gastric bypass and no one is banning that anytime soon.

[shirleyjean]

I have just started on Hcg I have lost 5 pounds in one day alone.I am disabled and have been for 20 yrs.I am 53 YO....My first visit to my new dr was yesterday...Today I had the energy to clean out my refrigarator cabinet ,grocery shopping and putting them away and took out trash,I hadnt felt like this in years..It  actually scared me ...I actually felt like doing something besides sitting on my A**.at the pc. Then me and my daughter went out to eat and went to 2 stores before returing home.I am a diabectic ,have high blood pressure gerd,depession anxiety etc all due to being overweght.i am  134 pounds overweight. BMI 48....This is my only chance to lose weight .i cannot have the gastric bypass because of 5 health problems i have.. .they say death rate is high with 5 complications.I will take my risk with HCG >I am a believer in HCG so far its working for me...Of course I am on there diet for 7 days and go off of it for 2 and eat what I want and start over again,...I went to an Alernative Medicine facilty. the shots are only 38.00 1 time a week.Small price to pay to lose weight...

[sammyv]

Atkins is not a scam and a joke.  Independant studies have been done now that to verify that the plan does work,  He slipped and fell and died through complications.  The wife you speak of was a second wife who fought with his children regarding the business, and the money in general.  She remarried very shortly after and the whole thing looks like a money/power grab.  It's actually sad because many of the good products have slowed.  It is very very hard to stay on a diet with no pasta for a guy like me.  Any diet is tough, but his "lifestyle: does work for me, and for most.
You are wrong about the calorie intake being low on his plan.  Let me correct myself.  On "his" plan, (let's say the initial 14 days) the calorie intake is lower, much, much lower then people who stay on tend to be at let's say 3 to 6 months later.   Quick summary, Atkins works fantastic, but slowly (or maybe not so slowly) folks eat way too much because they feel they can, and then it's impossible to lose weight, or even maintain weight, with that many calories going in.  Dr. Gonzo don't take offense to my statement about "Dr's bias".  Everyone has a natural bias based upon what they were brought up believing and or where taught in school.  All bias can be overcome.  My statement above was based upon watching so many stories about Atkins where Dr.'s dismissed him out of hand just by the mere idea of the whole thing.  I know this isn't an Atkins chat room, so please forgive me here.  I have just ordered the HCG and am looking forward to getting moving on  it.  The diet looks to be very Atkins esque, and my goal is to lose the weight I want, and then maintain a lower calorie Atkins lifestyle.  If I can have some pasta on Sunday, then great!  *I'm a tenor.  My daughter got married this month (July 7) and I sang the Ave Maria for her.  http://www.youtube.com/jonvitale13  
I come in about a minute into this clip.  Anyways, I share this here, 'cause let's just all say a little prayer, and work hard, and get where we want to be, and enjoy life!  - ciao

[FactReporter]

you seem to have missed where I said...in a fedral court atkins admitted the diet was a scam.......its common sense......I am an athlete.........so can my mom eat as many carbs as me no........i loost 42 lbs after surgery eating 300-500 grams of any carbs I wanted.....so there goes that theory........

people on atkins lowered overall calorie intake..FACT and thats why they lost weight..FACT..in the only major study..yes atkins worked better in the 1st 6 months only........at 12 months..it finished dead last behind the 6 diets.......either way good luck to you..good luck with the weight loss..and remember when everyone sees Im right about HCG...come back and say hi :)

[FactReporter]

in no way shape or form does HCG got anything to do with metabolisum..zero...the #1 people who make there living on low body fat prove this..BODYBUILDERS HCG in no way is taken by them to aid in fat loss..no way..no how..why ? if it worked..dont you think they would use it ? they inject HGH,INSULIN horse,dog,cat steroids..why not HCG...they use HCG to keep there.....from shrinking only..FACT...

[sammyv]

Just because you "said" it (or should I say, misspelled it:) doesn't make it true.  Carbs are not my friend.  A low carb, low calorie diet is very, very, very effective for me.  The problem is I like to eat BIG portions.  Too many calories makes for a chubby Sammy.  If, and I say "If", HCG has a positive effect in regards to "reshaping" me then "curing" me as is suggessted, then GREAT.  In the short term, I will at least be "thinking" that it will, and the combination of this and sticking to the Phase 1 and Phase 2 diet will definitely get me back to my fighting shape.  FR if you "flirt" with me again, I'm gonna pop ya.  - ciao

[FactReporter]

pop me ?? awwwwwwwwwww I have another fan ..will the pop be via email ??

and the atkins stuff is 100% checkible..public info.........for 3 months ive been asking......not 1 person can show proof from a non-selling source ZERO !

[onvibrate]

irrelevant as usual.

[sammyv]

I just did both a Yahoo and a Google search for:  Dr. Atkins,  Federal Court,  among various other combinations.  While yes there definitely are people who want to sue for anything, the comments you made above did not pop up.  You talk a big game, but I never see you back it up with "facts" only your consistent misspellings, which incidentally lead me to believe that you are not nearly as bright as you espouse.    

[chall544]

I'm very interested in your study.  I live in Houston, TX...do you have any colleagues in this area that work with hCG?  I'd very much like to visit with a local Dr., in my area that is working with their patients and administering hCG as a aid to weight loss.  Please let me know how your study goes with your trial patients.  Thanks - Caril!!!

[RESQ2U]

WOW U GUYS REALLY GET DOWN TO BRASS KNUCKLES ..I TAKE PHENTERMINE  15 MG TO HELP CURB MY APPETITE...CAUSE I COULD EAT ALL DAY ...I DO THE NO CARB ...CAUSE I HAVE NO CONTROL .....I GET A B12 SHOT ONCE A WEEK ...CAUSE IM EATING SO LITTLE IT REALLY HELPS WIHT ENERGY AND HELPS STIMULATE ME TO EXERCISE OTHER WISE ID STILL BE A COUCH POTATOE...AND VITIMINS BECAUSE I KNOW IM  NOT EATING  ALL THAT HEALTHY DOING THE NO CARB ... AS TIME GOES BY I WILL ADD MORE VEGS AND FRUIT AND EVENTUALLY CARBS ...IN MODERATION AND HOPEFULLY WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO IN MODERATION ..BUT YES I BELIEVE THE FACTS IS CLEAR TO ALL OF US ..WE HAVE TO EAT LESS AND MOVE MORE ....BUT FOR NOW I DEPENDING ON THE DRUGS TO GET ME WHERE I WANT TO BE ....LIGHT ENOUGHT TO MOVE MORE ON MY OWN ....GOOD LUCK TO ALL ..

[GonzoDC]

No offense taken at all. Bias is inherent in everyone. I pride myself in having a very objective and open mind when it comes to pretty much everything, including medicine. Dr Atkins had some good ideas and did some decent work. Unfortunately it cannot be applied to all and in many instances, that diet triggers a slowing of metabolism. Also tough for carb junkies to really follow.

[GonzoDC]

Dude, you need to do some reading on the endocrine system and metabolism. And I mean real study, not Google pop ups. Metabolism is complicated and all hormones are interactive. Also, most people and even many physicians do not realize that body fat is actually an endocrine system in and of itself, something that was not thought of even just a decade ago. I can't teach you what I know in this thread, but I will say, you need a bit more education on how hormones interact. I treat you stated bodybuilders, and yes, hCG has other effects than just balancing out the testosterone and cortisol effects. Read up.

[GonzoDC]

Well, there are so many multifactorial issues involved with age management and weight loss. Carb junkies need to be evaluated for gut flora issues. Craving sweets and carbs may be a sign of a gut overgrowth of a fungus called candida. Also, adrenal fatigue can be an issue as can issues with a hormone called leptin. You may have heard of this discovery in the 90s touted as "the obesity gene." Unfortunately, the hope of leptin being "the cure to fat" was dashed in further staudies (hopefully unbiased and not influenced by the food industry). Leptin does interract with the adrenal gland and the thyroid. How I am unclear but I am studying it more.

My point is that we really do not know exactly how hCG works to affect weight loss, metabolism changes, leptin production, and on the emotionl aspect of weight loss. Also, people may have other sub acute issues that are not recognized that make it difficult to lose weight. You must see a physician who is aware of these issues, who specializes in age management and can do a comprehensive evaluation.

Fact Finder, you really need to stay away from biased sources of info and try to gather info from both sides before presenting "proof" based on what body builders do. I am an athlete and was a serious one in my younger days. I did crazy things that were based on what my peers did, some good and some bad. That was based on nothing but experience and I got burned. Luckily, I learned early and studied real facts, researched and learned from all angles and did very well. My biggest lesson was not all "facts" were really fact. Just popular bias. There just may be something to hCG that we don't really know. Let's take a real look at it. It just may be nothing. Time and real studies will tell.

It is boards like this that really help. Even despite personal bias and "proof" based on what I call are "mini-facts' and anecdotal stories these boads allow for stimulation of further knowledge.

[GonzoDC]

I am not really doing a study right now. I am just placing 4 people on the hCG protocol for the first time and looking at them as case studies. Based on what I see, I would really like to come up with a formal study on the hCG protocol.

I do know an age management physician in Houston. Dr Richard LeConey. 713-807-1000. If you can't get a hold of him, ask for his partner, Dana LeConey. Please tell them hi for me.

DrG

[Deborah57]

I did HCG in 1975 after i gave birth and was 30 pound overweight in Caracas. Before i began with the treatment i ask my Dr. about it, and he told me that it was BS because a pregnant woman has i dont know how many thousand times more of HCG than what it was injected. And that if i want to loose my money is ok for him, that it will not do bad or good. So I did it, and i lost 25 pounds in 18 days, i didnt finish the treatment that was suposed to be for 21 days and than maintance. I never recovered the weight again until 3 years ago that i came to live to the US and began to eat the food here. Next week i am about to begin again with the HCG treatment, i have no idea if it will be the same. In Caracas I was at the doctors office everyday, and weight everyday, except sundays, and everyday they were doing a urine test to see if i was burning fat. I was very very happy and satisfied with the treatment.  Deborah

[Shewoolf54]

I did the program for 38days and lost 30 lbs.  I'm starting the second time around and this time i'm going to mix the hcg powder to be taken orally( I have a formula, a proven on) I'll let you know how it works out.

[FactReporter]

30 lbs of FAT in 38 days in not possible........FACT any 'doctor' should know that...

DR GONZO
great post........as a dr. you should know HCG is made of of over 220 ammino acids (protein)
you should know as a formner athlete who 'did things' hcg was never used for fat loss in the worlds #1 fat loss sport..think about it...im  very very well educated on the adrenals & thyroid,coritsol...ive yet to ever..ever..see where HCG fits in..not once...and come on doc..these weight loss 30 lbs in 30 days...20 lbs in 20 days..lol it takes 3,500 calories more then you ate /burned to lose 1 lb of fat..so in 30 days she burned over 105,000 calories in 30 days LMAO ! I almost fell off my chair..lets be real here huh...the secreet to finding out info is to never..ever research anything from the sellers.......the websites selling it..or book writers..or  criminals like KT  

[GonzoDC]

You are interesting to say the least. I do detect education/knowledge in your posts. I won't say what else I detect but let me just say, ego can sometimes get in the way of enlightenment. I really don't know your background but my guess is that you are not an endocrinologist or a physiologist. Don;t confuse your encyclopedic knowledge with actual up to date understanding of the endocrine system. There are still 'current' text out there that do not recognise fat as an endocrine organ and you are correct, hCG is a complicated molecule. It is capable of many things that we aren't fully aware of and will have a hard time understanding the cross reactivity it may have with other systems, including the central nervous system  Anyway, you are right, these people who say they lost 30 pounds plus in such a short time is not likely nor probable. Though I have seen some amazing weight loss on my programs, those people did it under very controlled circumstances.

FactFinder, keep up your posts. Check out how leptin interracts with the thyroid and how sub acute thyroiditis is underdiagnosed. I believe you may see how leptin, thyroid hormones and adrenal glands interract and how hCG may be a part of those interractions. Also FYI, certain parts of hCG have similar chemical likeness to thyroid stimulating hormone. Dude, you have lots to learn that is far beyond Google research and text knowledge. Keep up the the research.

DrG

[GonzoDC]

Excellent. More important than the weight loss, how did you feel during the process? Did you have a hard time with cravings? Any side effects during the treatment?  I really would love to know how you do the second round. I assume you did the injections, not the oral hCG the first time. I am not so sure about the oral hCG as effective as injections. There is a 'first pass' effect in any oral intake that has everything ingested going through the liver. The liver is a filter and may make the hCG less effective. Also, oral hCG is well known not to be the same compound as the pure injectible compound. But there are legitimate physicians (not in the states) who state they are using oral hCG effectively. I would be very curious as to how you do. Can you tell me where your source of oral hCG is?

TO ALL: If you choose to use hCG, NEVER purchase it online and ALWAYS use it under the guidance of a physician. Even under the guidance of a physician, ask the source of the hCG. Generic is fine as long as it is from a reputable pharmacy source.

DrG

[FactReporter]

I notice you said 'your program' so you are a 'seller' ok..but anywho...I know plenty about thyroid..adrenals..and coritsol levels...I use to use cortizone shots to help with my adrenels..
Im well educated in T3,T4,TSH,  
The diet pitch was metabolisum.then thyroid.......then its your cortisol.....then your adrenels......all the books,classes..tests I took...Not once was HCG there..hmm...these people weight loss lies here are funny..they disagree just to disagree....and no wonder losers like KEVEN T get rich..lol I know world rated pro bodybulders...are 'we' bodybuilders no..but there only goal is to have the lease fat possible..and thye in no way use HCG to do this....I asked a few top steroid sellers...steroids websites..and they all Laughed...sure body builders use HCG to keep there balls from shrinking...end of story..and as a dr. Im sure you know HCG is made up of over 220 amino acids...aka proteins...i havent done it yet..but aminos are mostly proteins..and proteins are 4 calories per gram..oh and you said leptin.......they still are years away from anything that can work with LEPTIN another so called cure all and reason your fat...heres a few things Ive seen.......
55lbs in 6 weeks
12 lbs in 1 day (me)
30 lbs in 26 days (me)
the list goes on and on..
Ive done HIGH & LOW CARB
HIGH & LOW PROTEIN
LOW ,HIGH & NO FAT
IVE STARVED...
I SAT IN SWEAT BOXES...and guess what........in the end..the same thnig always happened.......
CALORIES IN VS OUT
hormones matter yes..but its not a cure all..........

the only things I know 100% help with 'fat' loss is..
EPHEDRA (i TAKE)
CLENBUTEROL
WINSTEROL V
TESTOSERON
HGH
INSULIN
and the worlds #1 most potent FAT burner ever  used.  DNP the prob with DNP is.(its power)
1 pin drop more then you need............you die just like that. but as a DR. im sure you knew that....In the end..I will be 100% right...till then play on !!  have a good night

[GonzoDC]

Please take "FactFinder's" posts with a very large grain of salt. For that matter, take all posts here including mine with healthy skeptecism. FactFinder has a great deal of good info mixed with emotional bias.

I don't have a program to sell, Mr. FactFinder, I just treat overweight patients based on  their specific needs. Also, I take care of healthy patients to keep them healthy longer. It is called prevention and wellness.

Free advice to all: Besides the real obvious DO NOT SMOKE or drink alcohol in excess.....Do not use any prescribed medication without the care of a physician, drink plenty of water, stop all soda intake, eat as organic as you can, exercise regularly, do not eat late night meals and finally....smile alot.

DrG

[GonzoDC]

I gotta say this.. I find it interesting how you state so vehemently how you "hate sellers" and "sellers are bad sources" yet you asked a few top steroid sellers and you referenced their web sites to despise hCG. Interesting. Also, Ilike the way you restated my reference to leptin.

Seriously, I pretty much think you are correct in your hypothesis that hCG does not work. By your standards, I shouldn't prove that it doesn't work. There are too many succes stories to ignore the fact that it may or that something about the protocol independant of the hCG works. Besides the low calorie intake. We will see in 3 months with my case studies.

I hope I didn't read that you use ephedra. I have taken care of many patients with issues caused by ephedra. Be very careful. My goal with my patients is to end up with a non complicated lifestyle of minimal supplements and increased metabolism and a healthy watch on their own weight for life.

No one can stay on Nutrisystem or Herbalife or Ephedra for life, no one should. I get my patients weight down to ideal with specific protocols based on their needs then wean off the supplements if they are on them and go towards a diet tailored to their likes. Eat healthy organic, watch portions and exercise regularly.

FactFinder, you are likely right about hCG, but many of my patients hope you are wrong.

[GonzoDC]

Yep. That's it. Everyone knows what they need to doNot much for me to say to someone who already has their mind made up.

Seriously, get off the ephedra.

Hey, hellooo, you really meant that for FactFinder I hope! He is no idiot, just a bit.......half educated and misinformed. He will catch up. I should sign off but I am interested in those of you who are doing the hCG protocol. Would like to hear from Shewolf54. And yes, still love the entertainment from FF

[Shewoolf54]

I'm  going to use the injectable in a formula;


Oral hcg 1500 iu batches
1500 iu’s reconstitute hcg with some alcohol
   3.9 ml liquid B12
     .6 ml alcohol
Put in amber bottle. Take .25ml in am & pm
I just reduced Gloria’s recipe since I have all 1500 iu’s hcg and I want to keep it as fresh as possible.

Gloria’s original recipe In a 15ml amber glass bottle mix:

13 ml of a sublingual liquid B12 complex
2 ml of alcohol (I used 80 proof gin)
5000 IU of hcg reconstituted (I used some of the alcohol to
reconstitute the hcg)

The above gives you 166.66 IU per day (plenty for just about
everyone here) if you take a .25 ml dose once in the morning and
once in the evening (a total of .5 ml per day). The mixture is
enough for 30 days. Keep it in the refrigerator.

Some might think it strange that I used alcohol, but it's commonly
used when making a tincture in herbology. The desirable qualities of
some herbs can only be extracted by using alcohol. Also, I believe
the alcohol will have a preservative effect, too, so I feel
confident that the mixture should be effective through 30 days. The
small amount of alcohol acts to improve absorbability and doesn't
have any effect on your system at that small of a dosage. The B12
mix just helps augment your supplements intake level.

(You can use any little bottle, but an amber glass bottle is
recommended in the making of tinctures, too, as exposure to
sunlight, etc., can be damaging to the efficacy of formulations. The
dark color of the bottle acts to protect the ingredients inside.)

I did not worry about pH levels but depended on the formulation of
the B12 complex, already intended to be taken sublingually, to have
a pH level which would not be adversely affected by the addition of
the hcg or the small amount of alcohol.

I ordered the B12 complex from Amazon.com as they seemed to have the
best price. It came as a package of four bottles, 60 ml each for
about $18.50 total. I combined my order with some other things I was
getting anyway to take advantage of their free shipping for orders
over $25.

For accurate dosing, I ordered what is called a Slip-Tip Disposable
Tuberculin Syringes in a 1 ml size (a syringe with no needle, but
with accurate markings on the sides) and, using a chemical-proof
marking pen, marked the .25 mls dosage on the syringe. You open the
bottle, dip the syringe in, pull up to the .25 ml line, and squirt
under the tongue. Hold there as long as you can and then, okay to
swallow. That's your dose, twice a day. I space my dosings approx.
12 hours apart (i.e., 7:30 a.m. when I get up and 7:30 p.m. for the
2nd dose).

I mixed the hcg inside its ampule by using a hypodermic needle I
have to squirt the alcohol into the ampule. (I originally got the
hypo for re-filling my fountain pen cartridges. Don't worry, I
treated everything in a sterile fashion!) I then used the hypodermic
needle to extract the reconstituted hcg from the ampule and then to
inject it into the 15 ml bottle of the mix. I'm sure you lose a
little of the hcg just because of some clinging to the hypo, etc.,
but I would still estimate the I.U.s at well over 150 IU per day
with the above recipie.

I believe, too, that, because you're taking it sublingually, you
don't need to be as sterile as with an injection, so, this could be
easier for a lot of people who might want to try this method. This
is not to be taken that you can be sloppy while doing this--you
should always have as clean a mixing situation as you can and use
precautions to prevent contamination.

You will get eyed with suspicion (sp?) if you try to get a syringe
from the pharmacy at your local store but if you look in the baby
section, they have rubber-topped (squeeze bulb), plastic tubes with
ml markings which can be substituted for a syringe. I like the
syringe better for dosing, but something from the baby section can
be substituted.

If you google "slip tip disposable tuberculin syringe" you can find
them individually. They are used for hand-feeding baby birds so you
can find them at pet supply websites.

One other note: I believe you could probably do the above with just
distilled water, alcohol, and hcg, too, but I haven't tried that.
Besides, the B12 complex is good for you!

[helloooo]

Yes that was meant for him.  I'm sorry, but I have no respect for people like that.  These forums are for help, not for putting people or programs down.  If hCG was hurting anyone, then I could understand.  My little comment on here was taken off, but he continues to insult people and get away with it.  Why he is still allowed on here is beyond me.  He is full of bull.  He is no professional as he so claims.  Because professionals do not act like that.  I'm here on this forum to learn, but I too, find myself coming back for the entertainment.  It makes me happy to see that there are people like you, trying to make a difference in others lives.  Obesity takes a toll on the body, mentally and physically.  There are many people out there that just don't understand.  Rude and obnoxious remarks or comments will not help, but hurt people.  Like we don't have enough of that in our lives already.  Thanks for all the info that you are sharing Doc.  

[juliaj16]

Just a quick question.  I am in the Denver, Colorado area.  Do you have any colleagues here that use Hcg protocol with their patients?
Thanks!

[GonzoDC]

I would like to clarify to ALL. I do not know anyone who does the actual hCG protocol in their practice but I do know physicians who do Age Management Medicine and hormone therapy and are familiar with bioidentical hormone therapy. When you search for a physician in your area, ensure they are board certified in their field and have experience in weight management. Anyone can tell you to eat less, exercise more and take xenical, etc. But you need an experienced physician to look at appropriate labs and tailor your age/weight management  to max your long term success.

DrG

[FactReporter]

Im rigfht about HCG most likely you say.but im not educated...remember my name ,for when Im proved right..and EPHEDRA has been used in china for over 400 years...Im in perfect health.....as far we know..lol I tkae it prob 5x a week...wisah me luck I guess..:)

Thank you for saying...

"Seriously, I pretty much think you are correct in your hypothesis that hCG does not work."
AND --
"FactFinder, you are likely right about hCG, but many of my patients hope you are wrong. "
            As a real DR. you should be honest...so thank you

[onvibrate]

you "i don't thinks" are talking to each other, but people who it is working for just smile.

[going4thin]

Thanks for the great information.  I hope you will keep us posted on the progress of your 4 patients on HCG.  

As to my background, I've been overweight or at least chubby literally all my life.   I've tried every diet under the sun.  I was never able to make much progress in losing or keeping weight off.  I topped out at 240 before discovering HCG   I've been on the sublingual HCG program for just under two months and have lost 20 lbs.  I would have done better however I went on a few vacations on which it was very difficult to do hcg so I went off it, ate some junk and gained a few lbs.  But once I went back on it, the weight came off very quickly.

When I'm at home I don't have any problem sticking to the protocol.  No problem with hunger, cravings etc.  This is quite unsual cuz I'm one of those carb cravers!  I do have a candida cleanse to do during Phase 3.

[GonzoDC]

Excellent. Not sure why FactFinder chooses to ignore the anecdotal successes. What do you think the hCG does for you? How do you feel when you are on the very low calories? Have you tried the very low calorie diet without doing the hCG? What kind of exercise do you do during the diet?

One of my patients starts this Saturday and the others on Monday. I am very curious. One is a smoker and I am not sure how that affects the diet. We will see.

DrG

[Amadeus74]

He recommends a lot of things in phase 1, which mostly constitutes eating organic food and not eating fast food, junk food, soda, etc. This suppose to help cleanse the body of toxins (by the way I've been on a 3 week water fast that works wonders for that). You suppose to take all these herbal supplements. You suppose to drink a lot of pure water. Kevin talks about how Americans are obese because we live in air conditioning, drink tap water, eat junk food, and eat American grown foods that are injected with hormones. We crave this junk food because it is addictive. I agree with Kevin that this is contributing to obesity. So basically we need to stop eating this junk and eat organic foods and take hcg to get rid of a certain kind of stored fat. So if this way of life is so addictive, then how can he expect us to go 30 days eating the way he points out???? I don't care what anyone says, if you can sustain this diet, you will lose weight. Why doesn't Kevin recommend you to just do this diet for months before injecting yourself with something that is not regulated as far as we know (you order overseas, etc.)? What if the "problem areas" go away just eating right?

After taking hcg and doing everything that Kevin asks does your hypothalamus start to function correctly because of this hcg? Where is the documentation that proves the hypothalamus will be "healed" if it needs healing by taking hcg? He tells us to continue eating organic foods for the rest of our lives after the phases. How many people on this forum have attempted to eat all organic food (or a vegan diet) before trying this recommendation (I'm talking months or years, not days)? If not then why wouldn't you try this before injecting yourself?

I've taking several physiological courses and nutrition courses in college. Everything I have ever read states that there is no such thing as "spot reducing". You basically lose and gain fat in the order that you gain it. Fat usually is stored in those "problem areas" first because it is more efficient balance wise for the body. You'll lose this weight last, but for this reason it's called a problem area. We all know the last few pounds are harder to lose, maybe people give up to soon.

Personally I think American's (including myself) are walking around fat not because we have a damaged hypothalamus, but because they don't eat organic foods that is suggested in this book. The average fat consumption in this country is ridiculous and to top that off we don't work on farms and do the manual labor that our ancestors did.

Let me just point out that I agree a lot with what the book has to say. Organic is the way to go. Fat people do skip breakfast and eat a mass quantity of food at once (usually for dinner). I can see this triggering our bodies to store fat. I also agree that our foods are packed with toxins that are stored in our fat and organs. Again, I would highly recommend water fasting to rid your body of toxins. What bothers me about this is people are taking advice from someone that betrayed his customer's trust by frauding money out of their credit card accounts during the Mega Memory era. Why isn't he still in jail? Some might ask why he is not personally selling hcg. The reason he isn't is because he has been banned from doing so by the government. If he could he would be selling it. Another question I have is how in the World will you find a doctor that will administer this stuff? Let me answer this for you, you won't. Can anyone say lawsuit? Do you really think with all the malpractice suits out there, the amount our doctors pay in malpractice insurance, and the risk of being locked up if you die that they will agree to give this to you? So, he knows now that your only choice is to go online and blindly ordering this stuff on the internet. But wait, he suggests that you may want to go overseas to get your Garden of Eden from countries that are not overweight as a population. Next you cross your fingers and inject something in your body administered by yourself that has not been regulated or could have been tampered with at the border or who knows. Doesn't seem too bright to me.

On a good point he does point out the deliberate manipulation and brainwashing of the American public by the pharmaceutical companies and food companies. He is right that we and our kids are being marketed to eat poison and then later take drugs to target the symptoms of the illnesses created by these poisons, and not the cure. He brilliantly pointed this out and I agree with him whole heartedly.
I only want to hear stories from people who have taken hcg a year or two years ago and lost weight and kept it off. I think people who are being brought in by this are working under a placebo effect in a way. Of course you are going to lose weight by drinking gallons of water, eating low fat fresh foods and staying away from Micky Ds. Atkins, the Zone, and WeightWatchers have the same effect. Simple physics.

[onvibrate]

It doesn't say anywhere that the hypothalamus will be 'healed' by taking hcg. That happens in the next phase.
I have succeeded in eating all organic and all natural for 2 years. And I'm NOT rich. I ate a lot less food...naturally. Travelled with fruit to avoid fast food, etc.
What if the problem areas just go away just by eating right? Didn't happen for me. I was thin, but shaped all wrong.
There are many posts on this site to read from people who have had very long term success, like 20 years. Some placebo! I will look for them and post them here sometime for you.

[onvibrate]

oops! i was a vegetarian for 2 years running and all-natural for 4 or 5 years....

[going4thin]

To answer your questions from 8/2

I'm not sure how, but I do think HCG gets the fat moving. But I have found that you do have to follow Simeon's diet to a T.  Even slight variations can cause loss to stop.  I have done so many diets without success and am having such quick success with this I just know it works!

When I started I thought there is no way I can stick to a 500 call a day diet, but it's actually much easier than I thought.  I feel great on the diet, have energy and am focused at work etc.  On most other diets I'm tired and sluggish.  

On other diets I was always focused on food...preparing it, eating it, shopping etc.  What can I have next or not have.  On this I know what I can and cannot have, since it's so little it is not time consuming at all.  I have been able to go to restaurants with my frieds all the time.  I often order a salad with chicken, tomotaos and onions. I use red wine vinegar for dressing.  Every restaurant has been willing to accomodate me.

I have not tried this vlc diet without HCG, but I have tried other vlc dietst and have not lost anything.  I was usually so jhungry on them that they did't last long.  I don't have hunger on this one

To be honest, I have not done much exercise. When I do it's walking in my neighborhood or on the treadmill for  30-60 minutes.  

One last note for you.  I went to my Doc on Friday. He now has 50-60 patients on HCG (I was #4).  He specializes in weight loss....he and his staff are amazed at the results they are seeing from their HCG patients.  Most people are extremely happy with the diet.

You will be a blessing to your patients. Glad to know you are giving them HCG!

[going4thin]

Hey Dr -- the above message is for you!

[geedoonmom]

what variations to the diet are you doing and still losing?  how are you getting injections?  Do you know if the pills work as well? thx

[geedoonmom]

Okay, after skimming through all of the arguments above,my question still remains:  what do I look for in a doctor or clinic if I want to try the injections?  I live in Oregon and am unsure as to how to go about purchasing the hCG injections.  I am a bit unsure of the "buy online" variations and would rather seek medical (or natural) medical assistance.  

I did purchase KT's book and well, I am willing to give it a try.

Many thanks!

[Aprilly]

Would you mind giving me the name of your doctor? I manage a medical spa and our doctor, who does hormone replacement is very interested in the hcg program. For myself I just started following Dr. Simeons protocol. I am north of Houston. Thank you!

[helloooo]

hello fightu35/FactFinder

[jennifer65]

How do I find a Doctor in my area that would prescribe HCG? I live in Kentucky. Any info I would appreciate.

[Boss0147]

Ive been hanging around here ,reading..and was wondering ,why you never replyed to this post..seems hes everyones friend...Id like to see someone reply..he makes some strong points..or atleast rasises  ? no..

I notice you said 'your program' so you are a 'seller' ok..but anywho...I know plenty about thyroid..adrenals..and coritsol levels...I use to use cortizone shots to help with my adrenels..
Im well educated in T3,T4,TSH,  
The diet pitch was metabolisum.then thyroid.......then its your cortisol.....then your adrenels......all the books,classes..tests I took...Not once was HCG there..hmm...these people weight loss lies here are funny..they disagree just to disagree....and no wonder losers like KEVEN T get rich..lol I know world rated pro bodybulders...are 'we' bodybuilders no..but there only goal is to have the lease fat possible..and thye in no way use HCG to do this....I asked a few top steroid sellers...steroids websites..and they all Laughed...sure body builders use HCG to keep there balls from shrinking...end of story..and as a dr. Im sure you know HCG is made up of over 220 amino acids...aka proteins...i havent done it yet..but aminos are mostly proteins..and proteins are 4 calories per gram..oh and you said leptin.......they still are years away from anything that can work with LEPTIN another so called cure all and reason your fat

[jennyphoto]

I'm not sure if you are really a doc, I know this is a forum and people can be/say whatever they want. I am skeptical for sure... but I have this nagging doubt that is mainly encouraged by the feeling that a legit doctor might not actually spend time commenting pages and pages on a forum in such a short span of time. I thought doctors were busy?

I am really annoyed by "FactReporter" not for what he writes but HOW he writes. The constant use of "..." and all caps... and the grammar.... (see .....its annoying) I would think he might want to write in complete sentences if he wanted to be respected as a clear voice in this thread.

I haven't ruled out HCG yet, but I might be looking for a reason to. I'm needy enough to believe anything that gives me hope. At least I know that about myself.

[going4thin]

I used some seasonings that I later found out had sugar in them.  I also used balsamic vinegar, which some people can use, but I can't.  It has a higher sugar content than I realized.  

If I stick to the basics of the diet as outlined by Simeon I lose and average of 0.77 lb per day.    I did take a break on vacation and gained a few lbs, but those came off very quickly once I got back to the HCG and protocol.   I've lost all my vacation weight (8.5)  and lost 3 more lbs since July 28th

I'm not doing injections, I'm doing Releana...google that word.  It's a liquid you hold under your tongue.   I'm not sure about any pills.

[going4thin]

I go to a doc that gives me Releana.  He does a complete physical, blood work and an ekg before you start.  Releana comes in a small bottle. You use a little plastic measurer to squirt it in your mouth. Hold it there for one minute, don't eat or drink for 10 minutes.  Do this 2 x per day.   It's very easy.  So, much easier that messing with mixing and measuring and injecting.    The Releana website gives more info and lists docs.    I started in early June as about the 4th patient using HCG.  He now has 50-60.   Some come from two states away to see him.  

He has you come back after the first two weeks to see how you are doing and then about once a month. They weigh you and check on how you are doing.  Give you advice if necessary.  Actually they are learning alot from their patients on how to adivse others who have stalled....not drinking water, using something they shouldn't etc.     Post here if you have other questions.

[psychnp]

i am a nurse practitioner and would be interested in utilizing hcg for weight loss with the vlcd.  i am trying to figure out the actual dosages of the injectable.  anyone help with that?  thanks.

[annet1983]

aren't you tired to argue?

[GonzoDC]

jennyphoto, I really am a physician, And yes, I am crazy busy. That is why I haven't replied lately to the latest. I do not just see patients, read books adn studies all day, I also like to hear from people who have tried hCG. I have checked out more than just this forum and it is hard to reply all the time. Oh, and yes, some physicians do want to listen and learn. I learn a great deal from my patients.

Boss0147, I didn't reply to that particular post for 2 reasons, I am very busy and "FactFinder" posts pieces of information without actual knowledge of the entire picture. It is hard to educate someone who is not willing to learn or have an open mind. Not worth the effort, though I know others would benefit. Metabolism is complicated. He did not read what I said about leptin and spoke out of context. Also, he referenced sellers to make a point, undermining his initial despise of sellers. FactFinder is not worth the effort. But I will try to address general homest questions/statements. Bottom line. Go see a physician whos interest is weight loss/age management/homone therapy.

ALL: KT's book is one big advertisement for the things he tells you to buy in the other phases. Some are good, many make $$ for him. Also,Please stop comparing bodybuilders withtheaverage overweight person and the use of hCG. That does not correlate. Bodybuilders are trying to lose the last few percentages of fat that is required to basically LIVE and SURVIVE. To lose that requires extreme manipulation. We are talking in reference to overweight people who have an excess of fat and do not have the metabolism of someone who works out daily. The theory is that hCG targets those people with that type of metabolism. A very different population. Bodybuilders have no excess fat to target, thus no need for hCG as an adjunctive measure for weight loss. thos epeople need the testosterone, etc. They need small doses of hCG to, as FactFinder so eloquently stated "keep their balls fromshrinking."

It is difficult for me to answer all questions and I cannot do that. I am sorry but I do need to keep my practice going. According to FactFinder I am a "seller"....  DrG

[GonzoDC]

Man, after re-reading my last post I realize that I need to sleep once in awhile. Bad typos. Sorry to all the typo/spelling/grammar sticklers out there.....

P.S.

Anyone in the D.C. Baltimore area?

[helloooo]

Boss0147..... is FactFinder

[GonzoDC]

I figured that. Placation is my game with him. I do want to answer as many questions as I can while I am on this thread. I do not have all the answers. Some questions and assertions from FactFinder just are out of context. Like the body builder analogy just makes no sense for the reason I explained above. You cannot apply the same protocols to multiple different ppopulations nor does that make sense. Of course bodybuilders and the "sellers" to that population laugh at the thought of hcg for "weight loss" of that last few percentages. Doesn't apply to them. And I nor anyone else in this thread said it did.

Update. My small case studies have averaged a weight loss of 8 pounds this week. One cheated for one meal but all have handled the VLC diet well. They all say the key is ensuring they drink as much of the tea and coffee they can in the morning .I have no females on the program but one is going to start in 10 days.

Anyway, do not expect me on this thread for a week after tomorrow. I'll return eventually. And I am sure FactFinder will have more to say. I would be interested in what he has to say about my response to his bodybuilder analogy. He has a chance to mature here.....

He already has ignored my response once and even goaded me with a "Follow up" from Boss0147.

FactFinder, If you cannot try to open up a bit and perhaps just see that there may be 2 sides to things then do not expect responses from me. Would love to see you acknowledge some learning here. And as I said, I am not fully convinced the hCG thing really works. I certainly believe Trudeau knows how to make $$$ on finding one good thing and abusing it to sell alot of bad or neutral things. He has done it before.

The next step after a few case studies here will be a larger and more appropriate double blind study. I would need some help from another physician and/or nutritionist to do that. I don't have time to do it all on my own this year.

[Rocky12]

I am a 47 yr old male. I exercise frequently, watch my diet. I currently weight 260. I have worked out for close to 35 years now. I want to know if hcg might be a fit for me to lose some fat. I would like to lose about 40 lbs. Please give me your professional advise. I live in the Philadelphia area. Might you know anyone who can help me? Thank You

[Redsugarhoney]

I would like to try the hCG Injection therapy, but would like to do it obviously under doctor supervision. Where are you located at? or if your not willing to provide that, do you know of any practitioners in the NW Maryland, DC area??

[helloooo]

This is a post from DrGonzo on another thread.  I took the liberty of reposting it, because he said he probably wouldn't be around for another week.  From what I understand, he is doing his own research on hCG right now and only has a few of his patients doing this for the purpose of his research, but might be willing to take more on.  His clinic specializes in other areas of age/wellness managment.  If you google the info from below, you'll find his web site.  He seems like a great doctor to me.  Unfortunely, I live on the other side of the US.  Good luck!


Sorry. Crazy busy. I do not know any physicians personally other than myself who do the hCG weight loss studies. I am in the D.C. Baltimore area. I am overwhelmed with weight loss patients and am not taking any more this month. Sorry. If you are intersted in a consultation email ***@****

This is more than about a quick fix. Age management needs to be about simple lifestyle changes that fit your likes and dislikes. hCG is not for everyone and I am very selective in who I treat. There are other options that can and should be discussed. I approach my patients in a very holistic manner. And yes, I am an MD.

I guess this won't publish email sites. Google Atlantis MediSpa in Silver Spring

[Splatt]

Wow, my first time here... it looks like several children vieing for a seat on the see-saw. Some acting like they are presenting facts, but all I see are opinions. All you can count on is what you have experienced. Now reviewing what I have seen here about the Atkins diet. I have lived that diet for over 3 years, in the first year I dropped 40 lbs. and kept it off. The people commenting on how it doesnt work and that now the correct diet is carb smart diet are not informed. I can tell they never read the book. Did ANYONE reading this know that the Atkins diet is about testing and finding the exact carb amounts that are correct for YOU (smartcarb).... thats right, Atkins invented it. It is not a cut the carbs out of your life diet. I need about 50 gms of carbs a day to keep the weight off and it works. I was eating several hundred a day before reading the book. NOTICE... READING THE BOOK... your comments do not carry any weight if you haven't read the book and just assume you do not eat carbs. It's just not true. Some people can eat hundreds of carbs a day and not gain weight. Some of us cannot. The first couple of weeks of the diet pretty much cut all of the carbs out, then you slowly start adding them back in and eventually you start to know how many carbs your body needs on a daily basis. WOW... I have never heard anyone that criticized this diet say that they have READ THE BOOK !! All they know is "no carbs" ... now that is ignorance folks. Now as far as the HCG that would be ignorant of me to comment on because I never tried it.

[Boss0147]

atkins is old  news...give it a rest...its a low cal diet in hidding..and in fedral court they admitted his diet was a scam...and based on zero facts..........and he in no way invented it.......do your research...

[s-man]

I am interested if anyone here has had a good amount of success with Trudeau's plan?...

I am 5' 10" 19 YO and weight 155 LBS. I have never been an athlete, never worked out, never cared about calories or a diet. I eat how much I want. I love sugar, and I love meat. Some would say that I should be fat for what I eat.
My father on the other hand is 53 and very immobile do to weight. My mother, still healthy but overweight too.
Have you ever noticed that females in general and more overweight then guys? That is of course if then aren't starving themselves....
All of you dieters know that somethings don't work, such as dieting.

I havn't read the book myself. But I am buying into his ideas, and I am going to give it a chance.
Do people realize what they eat? I am not talking about fats or calories. I learned this in Biology... The tomatoes you eat..they arn't  really ripe. They are sprayed w/ c02 to ripen them. On top of that they are almost always genetically altered. How about the milk we get from a cow? Has anyone heard of UHT? A steroid for cows that makes them produce more milk. Well, thats in the milk we drink too.
Food is no longer pure. How can we expect to stay healthy when we are putting all of this in our bodies? Soda Pop for instance. Its sugar, sodium, acid and caffeine. Its so bad it eats away your enamels on teeth. And we dump it into our blood (if you didn't know is made up of about 45 percent WATER). Not only that, our kidneys have to filter out all of that **** from our blood.  I don't know what they answer is here, but I don't think its ALL about calories.
The good news is that alot of grocery stores are going organic and offering more to the typical consumer. You don't have to go to "health food stores" to get organic milk. Prices will eventually go down on organics. Besides, isn't your health worth it?

[GRACIEGIRL2]

Part of Trudeau's book is based on eating organic.  So then you don't have all those chemicals in your food.
We should ALL eat organic foods!  Diet or no Diet, its much healthier.
Also you should check out this website, hacres .com.

[2bthin4ever]

i have been trying to locate a dr who will prescribe hcg injections in sw florida or houston tx. can you help with sources. I travel alot and i live in florida. I am only at home about 10 days a month. I travel between houston tx and miami west palm beach and ft myers fl. I am 80 lbs over weight and am trying to lose weight to avoid diabetes.  I recently quit smoking and trying desperatly to get healthy. Can you provide me any information. My schedule will not allow me to remain faithful to a clinic type treatment but would prefer to have an md monitor my progress and prescribe the treatments instead of finding an internet source.Can you assist.

[NoNeedleGal]

Hello, Just ordered his new book, loved his other books, but I ordered before I did my research. My only question is Do you have to take a shot or can you take it orally. I am 36 and have an EXTREME FEAR OF NEEDLES. I WILL NOT take a shot for any reason. I hope and pray there is another alternative to "the shot". Any information will be appreciated. Thanks and good luck!

[Boss0147]

I do not think much of HCG wokring anyway...but the facts are   pill form is 100% junk & a scam...sorrry...

[Boss0147]

here is my whole point.........shorty says he/she has been researchingh the diet....but thats the prob........people  get there 'info' from sellers.........websites who sell it...and DR.'s who sell it......thats not truth..facts nor anything........ask a baby doc........ask a real dr.(who isent selling it)
ask the boys who  take it so there testiscle will drop.....ask the body builders who been useing HCG for over 30 yrs..and not at all for weight loss.....but to keep there ...... from shrinking...find out the real side affects..which no one here I have seen yet has........they 'CLAIM' & BRAG with lil known facts...HCG in no way ,shape or form has anything to do with fat cells.........if this was true girls wouldnt get fat..and stay fat after giving birth....and the stupid claims..stop and think about them....'lose fat from 'trouble' areas..lol come on...keep this in mind...most here do not like me..which is fine....most 'claim' it works for them.......but not yet has anyone been able to provide 1 bit of proof it works..from any dr. not selling it.......not 1 health org........dr........journal........no one..no where..now why do you think that is ?? hmm..........why has no company jumped on the band wagon and made $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ BECAUSE ITS A SCAM brought back to life from Kevin T the convicted 3x felon..and scam artist...........he was paid from everyone he so called 'suggests' in his book.....google his name..enjoy his lenghty arrest file..and how hes being sued over the tricks on his website(and selling peoples info) which you pay to be a member..hes a low life scum bag........and this makes you think he can be trusted..lol  people amaze me...no one uses common sense anymore........NO ONE
p.s I still look forward to seeing 'REAL' proof.......good luck to you

[sharb]

The book seems like a scam because why advertise when there are no Dr's.   Do you know of any clinics or Doctor's who do this in Ohio?  How do you research these clinic locations?

[GonzoDC]

You obviosuly did not read my previous post concerning how your "proof" concerning bodybuilders and the use of hCG does not apply. I had hope for you to learn or grow from that example. Allow me to remind you. Actually, this is to benefit those who may be confused by you. I cut and paste the following from my 8/10 post with quick typo edits:

"Please stop comparing bodybuilders with the average overweight person and the use of hCG. That does not correlate. Bodybuilders are trying to lose the last few percentages of fat that is required to basically LIVE and SURVIVE. To lose that requires extreme manipulation. What we are talking about are overweight people who have an excess of fat and do not have the metabolism of someone who works out daily like the bodybuilder. The theory is that hCG targets those overweight people and their metabolism. A very different population. Bodybuilders have no excess fat to target, thus no need for hCG as an adjunctive measure for weight loss. Those people need the extremes such as testosterone injections, HGH,  etc. They need small doses of hCG for other reasons, as FactFinder so eloquently stated "keep their balls from shrinking."

Also from another post I wrote 8/11:

"Some questions and assertions from FactFinder just are out of context. Like the body builder analogy just makes no sense for the reason I explained above. You cannot apply the same protocols to multiple different populations nor does that make sense. Of course bodybuilders and the "sellers" to that population laugh at the thought of hCG for "weight loss" of that last few percentages. Doesn't apply to them. And I nor anyone else in this thread said it did."

By the way FactFinder, why do you quote your source to defunct hCG from "sellers" to bodybuilders? Did you not say you do not trust "sellers?" To remind you: bodybuilders are a different population that use hCG for a different reason. Your analogy does not apply. Please try to see that.

To show those of you an example: Nimodipine is a calcium channel blocker originally used for hypertension patients. If you knew just that and was told that there was an off label use for it to help people who had spontaneuos bleeds in their head you could say that "well known internal medicine doctors would laugh at you if you tried to use it for anything else" or " you can't use it for head bleeds because ti is not approved by the FDA" or " it doesn't apply because brain bleeds is not high blood pressure, in "FACT" most SAH patients do not have high blood pressure so it must NOT WORK!" .................ooops. Guess what, it did. And now, after some time, it is now "approved."

Or that compazine, a good medication for nausea was, and still is used for migraine headache patients...off label. Or albuterol and phenergan both considered and labeled Category C (unclear safety) for pregnancy are both used widely by OB/Gyne physicians as the drugs of choice in pregnant women off label. Now, there is a great deal more to tell about those examples I used. Also, this was not meant to teach "factFinder' anything, rather, to show those who are reading this thread how to be careful of examples used by those like FactFinder as "proof" that a medication does not work. Medicine is continually evolving. Who knows what hCG will bring. We need more studies and less people like FactFinder to hinder the possibilities. We do need people like FactFinder to step on people like  KTrudeau. KT certainly scams many. Unfortunately, hindering real possibilities along the way.

[GonzoDC]

Sorry, I do not know anyone in Philly who does hCG. You may want to google age management physicians in your area.

[GonzoDC]

Sorry, I am not taking any more weight management patients this month. And honestly, these types of forums should be safe but I am not certain of the true intentions behind some people on this website. I truly don't believe anyone would have malintentions or go to extremes of harrassment here. But this is an open forum and this is the internet so care should be taken.

Having said that just google team network of maryland and click their web site. Go to the contact information and call the president and founder and ask him for the local medical Spa on Rt. 29/Colesville Rd. Try there and see if they have weight management programs there that may fit you.

[GonzoDC]

I doubt very much if the oral hCG works at this time. But I do not have first hand info about that. Also, please know, there are so many way for weight loss. I am sure those of you who want to try the hCG protocol have tried so many other programs. DO NOT buy the Trudeau weight loss cure book. You can find the protocol on line by simply googling hcg weight loss, Dr Simeons hcg protocol, etc. You will find lots of junk but sort through it to find the basic Dr Simeons protocol. Do not buy hCG online or any oral hcg substitute. You need to find a doc who will do it for you

[GonzoDC]

UPDATE:

Interesting, 2 patients have lost an average of 1 pound a day over the past 2 weeks and one fell off the program temporarily when I was gone because his fridge died while he was out of town for a few days and the hCG he had was in the fridge. Weak excuse but that is what he said. He has still lost 10 pounds in 2 weeks.

The women will start this week sometime. We will see.

[ItalianMama3]

I too am hoping to start the Hcg protocol soon and am wondering if you have heard of the Hcg Medical it's online and they say it is medical dr & health care professionals. You send them blood work they review everything and if it is o.k'd they'll write the prescription for you and connect you with a RX in your area to fill it. What are your thoughts? You mentioned previous don't purchase it online..... I live in the Seattle area and haven't been able to find someone who prescribes this diet/Hcg here.  

I have Fibromyalgia/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and a few others on the list and strenuous exercise is not an option. I like many people with my illness have extra weight to lose and need an option like the Dr. Simeons plan.

[Fergy55]

I would like to comment in general, by telling something about my struggle with weight and the search (?) for answers -  

I received a degree in nutrition/dietetics in 1976 and started to pursue a graduate degree in nutritional biochemistry.  However, plans changed, I fell in love, and went to work as a Registered Dietitian on staff at a prominent hospital (as a clinical dietitian) for a year, then moved (to marry) and was a dietitian with a school system for 10 years. During this time, I had a secret - I was bulimic and had been for several years.  I had been very overweight as a child, teenager and young adult.  As a junior in college, I wanted to pursue a career in nutrition, but did not think people would listen to a "fat" dietitian.  I "became" anorexic then bulimic, losing 60 lbs (down to 88lbs).  Then, I "snapped out of this" and my weight went up and down over the years that I practiced as a dietitian.

I battled this eating disorder (staying mostly overweight) and went to the very same hospital in 1988 where I had been a dietitian (diagnosed with bulimarexia, which is a disorder of eating in which the person alternates between strong craving for food and aversion to food; characterized by excessive eating followed by periods of fasting or self-induced vomiting).  I was in the hospital for 3 weeks (in the eating disorder clinic) and received all types of therapy, which "appeared" to work.  I left the hospital and decided to end my "food" career, and I am now a professional licensed civil engineer (practicing since 1992) - and am now about 40 lbs. overweight, and I still struggle with the eating disorder.

I knew and know about diet, nutrition and exercise.  But guess what?  It is sometimes very easy to know the "how to" its, but for a lot of people, it is not so easy to put these into practice.  There is something much greater going on in the human body of the obese, people with eating disorders, etc. that we still cannot explain, and I applaud any research and studies in this area (thank you, DrGonzo).  Obesity and obsession with food is increasing in epidemic proportions and the affects can be deadly.  Our nation is getting fatter and fatter, and we are constantly bombarded with diet after diet, and each week we see different reports about what is “good” for us and what is “bad”; what is “bad” this week may be “good” next week (!)

I read a lot of articles and books (including KTrudeau’s book), and I know there is a lot of truth in a lot of these (including KTrudeaus's book).  I know the answers are out there.  I know our bodies were not made to handle all the toxins we continually put in them.  I also know that there are a lot of things that can be legally added to food by the food industry to affect us negatively.  I also know that eating these things year after year is detrimental to your body, and I strongly believe there are some things that keep our bodies locked into certain states, and we are all searching for the keys to unlock this mystery.  I know my body is in a “mess”, and I haven’t found the key(s) to unlock the way to lose the weight.   As someone who was interested in and once pursuing a career in nutritional biochemistry, I definitely will not rule out the possibility that the use of HCG could be one of these keys.  

[GRACIEGIRL2]

Kudos to you!  Great post.  Good luck to you.  The forum has been a very positive source for me.
It is always interesting to read each persons problems and successes.

[Boss0147]

here is my whole point.........shorty says he/she has been researchingh the diet....but thats the prob........people  get there 'info' from sellers.........websites who sell it...and DR.'s who sell it......thats not truth..facts nor anything........ask a baby doc........ask a real dr.(who isent selling it)
ask the boys who  take it so there testiscle will drop.....ask the body builders who been useing HCG for over 30 yrs..and not at all for weight loss.....but to keep there ...... from shrinking...find out the real side affects..which no one here I have seen yet has........they 'CLAIM' & BRAG with lil known facts...HCG in no way ,shape or form has anything to do with fat cells.........if this was true girls wouldnt get fat..and stay fat after giving birth....and the stupid claims..stop and think about them....'lose fat from 'trouble' areas..lol come on...keep this in mind...most here do not like me..which is fine....most 'claim' it works for them.......but not yet has anyone been able to provide 1 bit of proof it works..from any dr. not selling it.......not 1 health org........dr........journal........no one..no where..now why do you think that is ?? hmm..........why has no company jumped on the band wagon and made $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ BECAUSE ITS A SCAM brought back to life from Kevin T the convicted 3x felon..and scam artist...........he was paid from everyone he so called 'suggests' in his book.....google his name..enjoy his lenghty arrest file..and how hes being sued over the tricks on his website(and selling peoples info) which you pay to be a member..hes a low life scum bag........and this makes you think he can be trusted..lol  people amaze me...no one uses common sense anymore........NO ONE
p.s I still look forward to seeing 'REAL' proof.......good luck to you

[ItalianMama3]

Why repeat the exact same post you already did a few days ago? If you aren't truly interested in this specific topic, why are you posting at all? You seem so pissed off.    

Your right Kevin T is a very good sales man and everyone knows he was in jail and had to pay millions $$. We are at our computers too! We also know most every diet book out there is pirated information from somebody else; it's just put in a new package. Most likely Suzanne Somers will have a book out in a year about Hcg diets and it'll come with a Thigh Master!

Every year tons of books are made with a lot of the same information whether we agree or disagree. It doesn't stop a person from buying them even from someone who’s been in jail. It just makes the story more interesting.

I personally bought the book for comparison of the two. He actually gives numerous websites, books and Dr.'s for you to get different products from. There are tons of people/companies gaining from his sales, not just the guy you call a con-man. We all get personal gain from something - if it's $5.00 off our next haircut for sending a friend to our hairdresser or getting that extra wrapping paper order for our kid’s school so they can get a prize. It happens daily, minus the name calling.

Also for the record my father is in his mid 60's and Type 2 Diabetic and he has been using the Atkins Diet plan for the last 10+ years and still not on Insulin. Go figure.

Things happen medically that are not always answered easily. Sometimes you just need a little faith that you don't have to have all the answers.

Why not let people talk about their experiences without this BS. Have some real dialogue, not bickering worthy of myspace. We can all express out thoughts on things without insulting other people.

[Mary 53]

I wanted to take a moment to compliment you on your fine and dignified response to the negative poster lurking on these pages. As a very patient person myself, I find that MY patience has worn extremely thin with this person but I was impressed with the gentle and kind tone in which you explained your position.

How great it is to hear that  your father is doing so well managing his Diabetes. He sounds like a very pro-active person. Good for him. I lost my oldest brother to diabetes complications ten years ago. However, he did not take care of himself...and, he paid the ultimate price for that. No one was able to get through to him that he needed to care better for himself. Another family member was diagnosed with Diabetes six years ago and has managed the disease so well that he, like your Dad, has not needed insulin. I have studied weight issues since I was 13 years old and hopefully I can continue to avoid this disease that has plagued my family for years.

It is interesting to read the research regarding this protocol. Even though the protocol has been around since the 1950's it seems to be a well-kept secret, doesn't it? Probably since it is a product that cannot be patented, much like the bioidentical hormones, including bioidentical hormones for women. I have been studying the bioidentical hormones for menopausal women since 2000 and I am constantly amazed that more women do not know about these...to say nothing of the confusion regarding the use of these hormones and how they differ from the synthetic hormones promoted by the Pharmaceutical companies. Some of the bioidentical hormones are actually produced by Pharaceutical companies, but don't get the "play" that patented drugs get.

Oh well, didn't mean to go on like that.

Best of luck to you!

Mary

[ItalianMama3]

Hi Mary, Thanks for the post. I'm sorry to hear about your brother. Being so aware of your families history and taking charge of your our own health now I'm sure you will see a change for the good.

I have been very interested in this diet since I first learned about it a month or so ago. I have found medhelp and a few other forums a great resource of information too. Minus.........a few things.

I actually saw my Dr. today and she wasn't really familiar with Dr.Simeons but had heard of Kevin Trudeau's recent book on it. She is going to research more on it herself and than in a few weeks we will proceed with a plan of action. I am excited to have found something that I think will work well for me and my current heath.

I have Fibromyalgia/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and working out doesn't happen, I have limited energy and my 3 kids take of most everything I have a day. I can't help but believe losing some weight, getting an increase in circulation, having an increase to normal range of blood pressure and getting the thyroid to work again will make a world of difference.  

On bioidentical hormones you definitely need to know your sources. I used to go to a medical office which used mostly bioidentical products from a compounding RX which was reputable. But sometimes they don't work for everyone or you need a larger dose. I know with my Thyroid medication it wasn't working and we tried playing with it for about 15months increase after increase. Then I said screw it, and I switched to synthetic and boom it helped.

Listening to yourself you'll find what the best choice is.  When my mom went through Menopause she was able to do it all naturally no hormone therapies. I know people who have had great success with Acupuncture and use of progesterone cream from a compounding RX.

Best of luck to you too! I'll keep you posted.

[wont be back]

I am constantly surrounded, in my life, as well as throughout latter years, with thin folks who eat well over 2,000 calories a day and never ever gain weight, nor do they exercise, or partake in anymore than simple everyday activities. You know people just like this. Everyone does. I know it takes 3500 calories to gain a pound, but what about the many in the world who can eat well over 3500 calories and not gain more than a pound a year throughout their lifetimes? Why are these people not mentioned more when discussing weight and metabolic issues? I, like many of my colleagues, do not feel that caloric intake is the absolute bottom line in "uncontrolled" weight gain. Also, I get a little tired of athletes and such, who've never suffered from obesity themselves (I'm not talking about 10 or 20 vanity pounds, or even clinical obesity), education or not, representing the obese and their delimma as experts. Are there any doctors who specialize in this very serious physiological problem who have actually been there (300 to 500 lbs.)? And if so... where? Book smarts aren't everything, after all. I should think that one with both book smarts AND experience would be a more powerful and knowledgable weight loss guru. Personally, I would like to advise everyone here to find physicians and trainers who've actually suffered from serious weight issues themselves. I used to be a trainer many moons ago, and most trainers I worked with were never really interested in helping the obese lose weight, but rather, they were merely getting paid for looking like the "ideal", looking the way they did simply because of excellent hereditary genetics. I worked my tail off, personally, from a 310lb. teenager down to a 165lb., long haired, musician and entertainer back in the eighties when carbs were still cool. It is still a constant battle. Athletes do not realize how much their commitment to a lifestyle that is so time consuming is simply because they love it. Bottom line. But most normal people don't have an hour and a half to three hours a day to spend in the gym, or the desire to run 3 miles a day, or mountain bike, or all of the aforementioned. Also, what, if anything, is being done about the very serious MSG issue, and how it is related to the obesity epidemic? What organizations, if any, are still trying to get the government, FDA, to address this issue? Thanks.    

[addyv]

I'm curious why you spend so much time here arguing about something you don't believe in.  So much negative energy.  Stop.  Breathe. Relax.  Think good thoughts.  Be nice.

[GonzoDC]

Your post asked a great deal of questions and held lots of emotion. In no way does weight management/metabolism management/age management break down to simply watching calories and exercsing more as you already recognize. Whether you are an athlete, have "vanity pounds" (nice description by the way, or grossly obese, goals require commitment. Not all athletes love what they do, that is why you see many "ex-athletes" out of shape. You know what it takes. You dropped all that weight and it took effort, the same effort it takes someone to improve their 6 minute mile to a 5 minute mile. Just a different goal or different level. You hit it on the head when you said find a trainer, a physician, a workout partner who has been there or has a similar commitment. It takes significant effort to change but in no way does it take 2 to 3 hours a day to maintain. There are ways to maintain. People do not take the time to make that effort. I see it every day in my practice. Patients do not follow up, they expect me to do the work for them, or they expect a single pill or single food or single exercise to solve all their problems.

And yes, it is very personal for me. Mom with a lifetime of weight issues (over 300 pounds) a gastric bypass, a brother who fights his weigh at 300 pounds, a sister with a borderline eating disorder, and then there is me. The "athlete." I do not do 2 hours a day. I do maybe 15 minutes a day...faithfully mixed with an hour a few times a week to maintain my exact weight as I had in high school and a 6 minute mile. Despite my genes. It is not easy but it is doable. It is easier to maintain than it would for me to gain significant weight then have to lose it and regain the habit of maintenance. That is what people need to realize. I am one of those people who people have looked at and said "you eat anything and as much as you want and you never gain weight!" What they do not see is that I eat mostly organic, I rarely eat a full meal after 7pm NO MATTER WHAT and I have a very crazy schedule at the hospital and clinic, I ALWAYS eat a high protein breakfast, NEVER any soda or artificial sugars, very rarely (a few times a year) fast food, After I wake up whether at 4 am or 9 am I do 10 to 15 minutes of stretching and a specific exercise regimen, I run only once or twice a week, go to the gym 2 to 3 times a week (may include that run) and I take very specific supplements to my particular needs (no, nothing radical). So, I can pig out at the hospital party or on the pizza in the clinic once in awhile with little guilt and no worry about weight gain. I eat my chocolate almost daily and ice cream every now and then. I manage my age (45 years old) by paying attention to my body. If I notice sluggishness or feeling "down" emotionally I take it out on a workout, not on food or TV. I practice what I teach and I try to stay an example to my patients. Yet many still want a quick fix and expect it from me. There is no such thing.

Put 10 people the exact same age, weight, and diet and give them the exact same exercise program and soem will gain weight, some will lose and others will stay the same. Genetics has about 25% to do with obesity. It is about metabolism and the habits each individual. What you do in your teens sets you up for the 20s, what you do in your 20s sets you up for the 30s, and so forth. It is not easy. It is not easy for me, my Mom, my brother and sister or for anyone. There is the rare individual with the hypermetabolism. But that is not the norm. There is the individual with a pathologic hypometabolism that weighs over 300 pounds but that is rare. I see this every day. bfore the 80s, you take a look at elementary school class photos and you see abunch of skinny kids, Youhave to look for the fat kid. Today, you look at the photos or pass a bus stop and what do you see? Fat kids. You have to look for the skinny kid. Bad genes? No. Habits. I see those same overweight people in fast food places, restaurants with supersized, large portion meals and a diet coke. I catch my own patients and they know it. Problems in the food industry, mostly bad habits in a changing society.

A changing food industry and a more sedate society are big reasons for obesity. Much more than just genes. A change in your habits, consistency in weekly excercise (sometimes just a few minutes a day), to modify your habits to fit the current state of **** in our food, get away from the TV, after a good evaluation by a knowlegable physician is how to do it.

Good luck. It is not easy to get there but you already know that. It is easier than you think to maintain. As you can see it is very consuming from the physician point of view and people have to pay for that. People pay hundreds and thousands for the general fad diets but very very few of those address teh metabolism issue and many make it worse. And many do not want to pay for what they already know. They expect the doc to do it for them. I see it every day. Does not happen that way. Even being relatively expensive to the patient my clinic is overwhelmed with weight loss patients. It takes a huge effort on my part. But, as you can guess by my reply here, I am willing to help. I just can't do it for you.

I get frustrated when I give the advice, people do not listen then they get mad at me because it cost them money and they find out I can't do the actual work for them. They actually have to do it. Once you can get past the marketing **** there is a great deal of help out there. Recommended books: 8 weeks to optimal health by Dr Andrew Weil, The metabolic Plan by Cherninsky (sp?), heck, any book by Dr Weil really. It is a start.

[helloooo]

What great posts.  Just wanted to let you know.  It's good to hear some positive advice out there.  Thanks!

[helloooo]

The last post was also for you.  Your name didn't show up..  Thanks again!

[mresearcher]

There are some clinics that will work with anyone in any state! They are GHI medical, HGC Medical, and Native Healing Ways. All of these require that you go to your own physician and get a physical, then go to your local lab and get bloodwork. Send the paperwork in, and your on your way. The HCG comes from the US so theres no way its counterfeit. This is pricier than buying from overseas pharmacies but worth it if your concerned about the authenticity and potency of your hcg (which you should be, alot of fake hcg being sold out there!) Expect to pay upwards of $400. goodluck!

[mindy77]

Do the HCG pills work just as good as the injections?

[VARugger]

Hi,
For those that are looking for HCG and to get started, I used GHI Medical out of FL.  Basically I had to fill out a pt. hx form, physical signed off by a doctor where I live and get the blood work done.  They have a great discount on the blood work if you do it through GHI and they use Labcorp which has a facility a mile from my home in VA.  Once all this paperwork is turned in, it is reviewed by a physician on their staff and you are called by their pharmacy outlet RXSolutions.  This all took approx. two weeks to complete and I was called on Monday by RX Solutions.  The HCG package arrived today (2 days from FL) all perscription based.  Comes with two vials (biostatic water and HCG), One 10cc syringe for mixing and 4 packs (10 each) of insulin syringes for injecting with instructions.  All syringes and vials have the perscription on them.  I start tomorrow.  
Hope this helps.

-J

[mresearcher]

everything i've read states that nothing oral or pill form works the same as injections

[ItalianMama3]

Great information posted...

I have to say, I talked to GHI Medical myself and planned to use them if my Dr. didn't agree to prescribe it. They were quick to respond to my email and happy to help right away.  

[addyv]

I find it difficult to get my regular doctor to take me seriously when I ask about weight loss.  I am 32 years old and currently weigh 260.  I have felt I was fat - I'd kill to be what I thought was fat when I was a size 14.  Since I turned 30 I have gained at least 50 pounds.  I express my concern and need for help to my doctor but she just tells me - eat less exercise more.  Yeah - that makes sense... but I NEED HELP.  The fatter I get the more depressed I get and the more depressed I am the fatter I get - its a vicious cycle.
I did buy Trudeau's book and I think what he says about the American diet makes a lot of sense.  I'm certain that stopping to think about all of the things I put into my body is a good idea.  However I also think that I need some sort of medical guidance.  I'm not willing to order HCG over the internet - I need a doctor, holistic or otherwise, to assist me in my weight loss journey.
Bottom line...
I'd like to find a doctor that specializes in obesity -but don't know how to do that.  Where do I start?   I appreciate any constructive advise.

[ItalianMama3]

Where do you live? If you put your state in maybe someone has worked with a Dr. or clinic in your area... Worth a shot.

I say switch Dr.'s find one that will listen. The most important thing is YOU and your health and you need someone who will hear you and the concerns you have! I agree diet and exercise can help, but when substantial weight needs to be lost some times it calls for added support (like Hcg). Not everyone has the ability to get a personal trainer and dietician to support them daily. Unless you’re a celeb or on the Biggest Loser so for the rest of us not wanting to have surgery....

I shared my knowledge of Dr. Simeons with my Dr. she wasn't familiar with it and she is now reading all my notes, my book and then we are moving forward. I knew I would do it regardless of her being on board, but I understand wanting that Dr. there and I wanted to include her as well. I think she also sees that if it works well it may open up a whole area of her practice.  

Good Luck! There are plenty of us here happy to lend support to one another!!

[rpmd]

Hello all and dr. g.    I am (in my past life) a board certified internist with a degree in biochemistry.  currently NOT practicing as an MD any more but "do" bodywork for people with chronic pain.   slow sunday here in madison, wi, and I just got done seeing Kevin Trudeau's infomercial and had to check out his incredible claims, thus google, thus this thread.    

Just wanted to let you know of this link:    http://www.dietscam.org/reports/hcg.shtml    by Stephen Barrett, MD, a well known "quackbuster" in certain circles.   While I disagree with him on certain things, I do appreciate his skepticism at times.   I mainly post this for his references at the end of his article on peer reviewed double blinded studies on HCG and obesity that all can read, and also the historical perspective (I have not checked out this claim) that at one time HCG was the #1 leading prescribed treatment for obesity in this country.

Note that in any double blinded study, there are usually a number of people that respond dramatically and then those that do not.   For you who want to try HCG, you MAY be one of those people (or not).  The study only reports statistical results on a certain population of people and cannot predict on an individual level what you're particular response will be.

IN ANY double blinded study, it is IMPOSSIBLE to determine on an individual level whether the examined active substance (in this case, HCG) or the placebo response was the reason for the observed effect.

Placebo response is a very powerful neurophysiological tool that can alter brain chemistry, neurotransmitters, hormones and "hypothalamus" leading to a "cure" in certain subsets of individuals.   HCG administered by a caring, compassionate, listening physician will have an infinitely greater effect on weight loss than Dr. Barrett's debunking claims.

Trudeau is a scam artist.  This is well documented.  Thus being stated, placebo response from someone reading his book and trying HCG, can sometimes achieve great success that IS REAL (not necessarily able to be duplicated in clinical trials).   Simeon's original work on HCG NEVER claimed that it induced weight loss, only that it controlled the cravings and attendant side effects of a 550 cal markedly calorically restricted diet.

From a psych perspective, Trudeau's rantings about profit motive of drug companies et al are a bit disingenuous, since his infomercial empire was entirely built on profit motive.   This is called "projection", attributing to the other person what is a characteristic of one's self.   People believing in HCG as a miracle elixir for weight loss are essentially still in the same psych mindset as pharmaceutical companies pushing their oneshot answers for all varieties of human maladies.  

Obesity is most likely the result of a multiplicity of factors  which Dr. Gonzo has mentioned.   HCG may be a key ingredient for a certain subset of people wwith obesity.  It may play no role in others.   The greatest chance in controlling obesity is to try to address all the known factors that lead to obesity in the first place, of which lifestyle changes (which Dr. Gonzo models himself) play a key role.

Good luck to all,

rpmd    ps:   I'm one of those people you probably hate cuz obesity is NOT where I fight my personal demons!     chuckle.......  

[Boss0147]

I after all the posts here set out to read..read..& read all about the hypothamlus gland..and everysingle thing at best says it 'could' help with hunger..(cravings)(not release fat) and with some other hormoes like dr .G said......but again......no weight loss.......3 things = fat loss,thyroid......adrenals..metabolisum.which thyroid controls with adrenals.....and the hypo gland is in this mix..but after researching for 2 months..and severla books..(non-weightlossselling) ive yet to see any strong proof of anything to do with fat cells...

great post RPMD ! seems most here fall for the 'if i inject fat will just fall out of my FAT CELLS..I searched..searched.read..read..& read........and talked to people who used HCG for yrs in the bobdybuilding world..and all clearly stated it dont help with fat loss 1 bit........and ive yet to find any real proof....... good luck to you

[GonzoDC]

Excellent post. Excellent. I truly wish we could get Trudeau out of the picture completely.I have looked closely at Dr Barrett's perspective. I haven't found in my research that hCG was once the #1 perscribed drug for obesity. It is my opinion that the population eligible and able to complete at least 28 days of the protocol as established by Dr Simeons would be low. Very low (placebo percentage?). I have been very selective in my case studies. It would be nice to see it work for a difficult population subset in more than just a placebo-type effect. It is very obvious to me that though the protocol has its small set of people it for whom it will work, it will not be the panacea Mr Trudeau is "scamming" it to be.

Boss0147. You are so close.........

[ItalianMama3]

I sent you a post on the 20th and wondering if you might have some feedback for me?

Thanks :)

[Boss0147]

DR. I did...for a week straight I search & researched...and I myself do not feel as though its worth it.....at best it  might help with cravings..and slight hunger..........to me thats not worth the $$ nor inecting....use will power...but hey,thats me..I have searched..searched and searched..and no where found anything to do with HCG and fat loss......nor this speical   FAT RELEASE FROM TROUBLE SPOTS..come on..thats a sales pitch..we both know this..but I hope all do well......and are healthy...and great posts.. and you sent me a post ? which 1..i shall reply...thank you

[GonzoDC]

I do not know hCG Medical. It is not a pharmacy.  I took a quick glance at the web site. It is good they require labs and a health history review.. Home page has Trudeaus book advertized, not a great sign. I even called the 800 #. Costs $475 plus whatever the charge is for the hcg for the full screening and review. They sell the reveiw, labwork and protocol. You obtain the hCG from the pharmacy.

[ItalianMama3]

Thank you for checking them out. You didn't need to go to all that work though. I was just wondering if you had heard of them.

Thanks again...

[autoguy]

Here is some real data:

38YO male - HCG by injection. After 21 days lost 22 lbs.
35YO female - HCG by injection.  After 21 days lost 16 lbs.

We are (exactly) halfway through our first course of HCG - and it works.  I have the daily weight data as well as the weekly measurement data for waist, chest, hips, neck, and thighs.  My wife has been very strict on her diet but I have missed three days due to social gatherings (I am in sales).  At those social meetings however, I was still mindful of what I ate (i.e. small portions, small amounts of alcohol, no desserts, etc.).

My wife has a hypoactive thyroid and has never seen results like this.  She has tried many (read "most") diets and excercise regimens (including race-walking).  We are both very excited about what we have seen and the weight is coming off in the "trouble-spot" areas as detailed in Simeons book (as evidenced in our weekly measurements).

I bought K. Trudeau's diet book, although it basically says the same thing that his other health books do except for the Simeons information.  That makes the book essentially useless because the Simeons data is readily available on the web (although I must say that I did glean useful tidbits of information from his first two health books - they are worth the purchase price in my opinion).

I will not know for several months whether it truly resets our metabolism, but so far, the diet has gone EXACTLY like Simeons had said it would.  For example, my wife did the two-day carbohydrate loading while I couldn't be bothered to do so - big mistake on my part.  My wife had no hunger issues while I had mild hunger issues between days 8-14 (she read the book before we started the diet and I didn't read it until around this time period).  Nothing terrible, but I did have mild discomfort.

Oh yeah, I am not in the medical profession, nor am I a "seller" of anything other than automotive parts - just in case a certain nay-sayer on this forum decides to take my "I am in sales" comment out of context (as they have been so keen to do).  Anyway, just more information for those that are willing to listen.

[autoguy]

BTW, I am not a K.T. activist - I am simply a guy that likes things to work.  K.T. is simply the conduit through which I learned about several things that I have personally benefitted from - nothing more or less.

[Shewoolf54]

check the earlier post on this subject and you will find a recipie for injectable changed into a sublingual  THAT really works.  good luck!

[ItalianMama3]

is that you Boss0147/factfinder.... whats with all the name changes? Are you trying to confuse the Doc

[helloooo]

Wow, another name change.  What a nut case.

[Mary 53]

Wow...so glad you asked rissy that question. The same concern hit me. After Boss's highly inappropriate and rude comment to me last week, I will avoid both screen names altogether. I did not understand Rissy's comment back to you in the first place. Oh well.

Thanks so much for your nice post in response to me over a week ago (we'd discussed Diabetes in the family). And, you'd mentioned the bioidentical Progesterone cream....and, yes...It was (and still is) a lifesaver for me. Not enough women know about it...another "well-kept secret" and much like HCG it cannot be patented so it is not promoted with bells and whistles like the patented products from the drug companies.

I have been following everyones progress on this forum. Just wanted to say that I am thrilled for you that  your doctor is on board with you on all of this. I recall that you were hoping that this would not be a problem. I have been lucky in that regard, too. My doctor, who has been practicing for about 30 yrs, was willing to do the physical (the form from GHI) should I decide to proceed with the protocol. I maintained a 45 pound weight loss for about 22 years until the roller coaster world of female hormones started playing dirty tricks with my body. I have worked out quite consistently since 1982 so my muscle tone is good, but the weight loss is extremely difficult. I average a very low calorie diet as it is, so that part should be okay for me...just would like to get some assistance with the whole thing. Hoping to lose about 25 lbs. I will let you know how it goes. And, best of luck to you. You sound like a kind and caring person.

Mary

[ItalianMama3]

Hi Mary glad to see you back!

The 45 pound weight loss you’re referring to was it from eating low cal and exercise?  I think that is remarkable! I have been up and down since giving birth to my 3 kids... Glad to hear your Doc isn't completely unreasonable too. It seems a shame that so many people have to resort to these methods helping themselves get better without a physician along the way because their Doc's just don't have the knowledge about it or aren't interested in learning about it! Hcg seems like it has helped a lot of people lose the weight for a long time.

Do please keep me posted. I should be starting the 5th of Sept myself! : )

[Mary 53]

Hi Mama....

Thanks for the response. I cetainly will be happy to share how I maintained the weight loss...the dieting/exercising, and psychology! behind all of it.

Crazy few days at work winding up the summer school schedule and getting ready for next week's semester start (obviously I am a teacher...I work with troubled teens in a special program)...and, trying to get out each night walking with daughter and canines :) so I will write when things are a bit more relaxed this weekend.

Take care....(I had my blood draw today...did not eat from 7am until after 3pm...I guess that is why I am tired tonight!)

Mary

[ItalianMama3]

I see you have found some recent postings by our favorite cynic.

[lesur]

Oral is working, plenty of 1st person testimonials in the yahoo hcgdieters group.  

For the rest of you, this diet really does work. I'm doing it as we speak you can also check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsvW-L_6UYs and his earlier videos for his experiences which match mine so far.

[lesur]

My advice to everyone finding this discussion and interested in HCG is to ignore this ignoramus (rissy, boss, or whatever name he uses) and do your own research.  If you look hard enough you can find out everything you need to.  

I'm referring to the members not the person who set up the group, whom by the way never (that I've seen) posts.  I've also not seen any recommendations for particular clinics or suppliers, so I think you're full of caca.  Further, 1000's of messages are posted there monthly (7000+ in Aug).   I guess if you want to believe in conspiracy theories that is your choice, but the evidence shows otherwise.  I also fail to see the  problem, assuming you are even correct.  So a doctor set up the site (hearsay from you, I don't know if that is true) and she supposedly sells HCG.  The whole time I've been on the site there is not one supplier that is being promoted or even continuously mentioned favorably.  Read the archives.  

The group is made up of real people who really are using HCG successfully - as am I.  

[GonzoDC]

I want your $500. You have no proof it doesn't work. I love how you state you have researched this "more than anyone." Quite a statement. You did not address my answer to your question and "proof" using the analogy of weight lifters awhile back. I won't go over it again, you can read it on your own. Like most "ebullies" you throw out "proof" and empty bets. You aren't betting a thing and you know it. Are 5 patients who have lost significant weight "proof" for you? 10 patients? 100?. No, you will play bully and contra no matter what. You have a wall in front of you. The world will always be flat to you.

I do not know why it works, and yes, I believe the hCG is not likely what releases the fat, though I am not sure. It is the 500 cal diet that loses the weight. But what is the role of the hCG? We do not know that, and I believe I have probably done more legitimate research on this than most. More than just Google searches. And there are plenty of journal articles, starting with the original Dr Simeons published in The Lancet.

Here is a list of the first 10 of 91 articles that I have read and studied form a medcial professional point of view:

1. Albrink MJ. Chorionic gonadotropin and obesity?. Am J Clin Nutr 1969 Jun;22(6):681-5

2. ASCHEIM S; ZONDEK B. Die Shwangerschafts Diagnose aus dem Harn durch nachweis der Hypophysovorderlappenhormone. Klin. Wochschr. 7:1401-1411. 1928
3. Asher WL. Harper HW. Effect of human chorionic gonadotrophin on weight loss. hunger. and feeling of well-being. Am J Clin Nutr 1973 Feb;26(2):211-8
4. Astrup A.. VLCD compliance and lean body mass. Int J Obes 1989;13 Suppl 2:27-31
5. Atkinson JH. et al.. Plasma measures of beta-endorphin/beta-lipotropin-like immunoreactivity in chronic pain syndrome and psychiatric subjects. Psychiatry Res. 1983 Aug;9(4):319-27
6. Bagshawe KD. et al.. Pregnancy beta1 glycoprotein and chorionic gonadotrophin in the serum of patients with trophoblastic and non-trophoblastic tumors. Eur J Cancer. 1978 Dec;14(12):1331-5
7. Balducci R. et al.. Effect of hCG or hCG+ treatments in young thalassemic patients with hypogonadotropic hypogonadism. J Endocrinol Invest. 1990 Jan;13(1):1-7
8. Ballin JC. White PL. Fallacy and hazard. Human chorionic gonadotropin-500-calorie diet and weight reduction. JAMA 1974 Nov 4;230(5):693-4
9. Bastow MD. Anthropometrics revisited. Proc Nutr Soc 1982 Sep;41(3):381-8
10. Berry JN. Use of skinfold thickness for estimation of body fat. Indian J Med Res 1974 Feb;62(2):233-9


"Not 1 study" you said. Since you stated you have researched this more than anyone else, I assume you have read these studies plus the 81 others I have found. Actually, I assume wrong since you said there is not 1 study out there. I am not pretending and neither are the patients I have on this protocol.

You owe me $500. I doubt you have the courage to pay. I promise you this. If you pay me, I will match that $500 and put it towards further research in this field.

I have showed you. Now, either pay me or stop typing.

DrG

[Mary 53]

DrG...

Thanks for your support. The nonsense with this particular poster is so irritating and condescending.

I look forward to reading some of these articles. Thank you for taking the time to post the references. I have studied the Bioidentical Hormones, for women in particular, since suffering through a surgical menopause 7 years ago...and, the bio's have literally saved my life (I do get rather passionate about this...but it is such a personal decision...). There is so much confusion out there regarding the hormone situation for women, but fortunately I was open- minded about considering using them and they have greatly improved the quality of my life. And, after extensively studying the whole hormone situation, I feel very comfortable with the decision.

I think we all want to be proactive regarding our health and it is good we can share our sucesses and our opinions, but it is also okay to be open to new information.

On a typical day, I consume approximately 700 calories (post- menopause is not kind to calories...bioidentical hormones or not) and I work out about 4 times a week (always aim for 6 days a week) just to maintain my weight. When I was doing a 500 calorie diet (through a weight loss program back in 1980 - 81...no hormone help, no pills) I lost some weight, but it was slow going and not terribly successful. I discovered Covert Bailey's work (he is my hero) a year later, and it took time, but I eventually changed my body structure through aerobics but I still struggled with the weight issue. I will say, however, that eating healthfully all these years and also doing aerobic execise quite consistently has had a generous health benefit...but, again...oh, the frustration of just trying to lose a few pounds!!!

I am eager to see how this works for me. I should be able to start the program in a few weeks after all paper work is in, etc. Hoping to lose approx. 25 pounds. I will watch the boards so I can encourage others as I hope for the best for myself.

Take care,

Mary

[KurtS]

Mary I hope you are taking supplements during these extremley low cal diets.  Really low cal for long periods could be slowing down your metabolism. What I found helped me was to increase protein and eating healthy fats, reduce simple carbs and work out at higher intensity for shorter periods of time. Studies show greater success losing fat this way than with longer duration moderate exercise. The theory is it is better at speeding up metabolism to do high intensity intervals. Dr Al Sears has a lot of good information on his web site. Good luck with your fat loss program.

[Mary 53]

Hi and thanks for the response. As I wrote this I thought...well, I could write a book on the whole thing, but in an to be concise I did not paint the whole picture. I figure I average about 700 calories a day over a week...and, I do know that you have to eat to lose weight. I don't think of myself as "dieting" per se...it is just how I have eaten for years and years. I think it has been worse for me (certainly since Menopause) more recently because of the nature of my job. I work with troubled kids and for about two years it was hard even finding time for lunch...I had to advocate for myself to my co-workers...."I need to eat lunch" ....so often our time was spent dealing with the kids...good kids in that I loved working with them, but lunch was hectic and I had to figure out the whole "taking care of me" thing. I switched jobs within my company and that has given me a little more freedom. I actually get a lunch period!

At night if my husband has to go back to work, I sometimes don't eat dinner....but that is a more recent problem and I don't mind eating alone, but I sometimes just don't bother. Having said all that... I know this is not smart. So then we get into the next layer...which is the psychology of it all. I was very heavy growing up and battled my weight from age 11 until I was in college. I started putting on weight in second grade. During high school I yo-yo dieted gaining and losing approx. 50 pounds...up and down ...up and down....So, I sometimes wonder if it is because of the old "baggage" from being heavy during the formative years that I almost have an unconscious fear of food. Having said THAT....I have worked with kids with eating disorders and I thank my lucky stars that I never succumbed to an eating disorder. And, I try not to let the fear dictate my life and my eating. I am also the only non-diabetic in my family. And, I lost a brother to diabetes complications..so there are many factors at play here.

This is where I could write a book...but, finally, in college, I put it all together and decided I did not want to live my adult life this way and would figure this out as best I could so that I could have a reasonable and steady weight over the coming years...and, do it sensibly. I had been studying this stuff since I was 11, so I knew of some information and I just tried to keep learning. That is when I lost 45 pounds my sophomore year. When someone asked me why I was having broccoli for desert, I just stated, "I love broccoli." I never told anyone I was dieting. I was lucky enough to have taken a gym class where Pilates was taught, so I added regular exercise to my life.

It was in 1982 that I discovered the work by Covert Bailey (Fit or Fat and Smart Exercise...awesome books). Changed my life forever. And, in fact, you mentioned intervals...I was just explaining this to my 22 year old daugher tonight!  I got off track this past winter/Spring due to a diagnosis of a ruptured disk, which was not diagnosed for 8 months. I have good back health otherwise and all the pain was referred to the front of my body....after all sorts of tests, CT scans...ultra sounds...Xrays...surgery looking for surgical adhesions (there were none)...colonoscopy...FINALLY a neuro doc found the problem but was baffled because my symptoms were so unusual. But, I am back on track now with my work outs and as long as I don't jump around...I am okay. I  use a weighted vest to do some of the intervals and I have increased my use of weights alternating muscle groups every other day.

I will take a look at Dr. Al Sears. That name sounds familiar. I appreciate the suggestion. Oh, and I am a big believer in supplements. I take Fish Oil, Vit. C, the B vitamins and after reading tons of good research on Acetyl - L Carnitine, I have added that to my list. I take magnesium for bone health and a daily dose of greens mixed with filtered water (my daughter's comment to that is, "Mom, the allegators called and they want their swamp back!"). I do enjoy a glass of wine on the weekends and I still love my popcorn, but I decided some time ago that I did not need it EVERY NIGHT!

I know there are interesting studies concerning low calorie diets and how they can actually extend  your life, etc. Some of these studies have been around for some time. So, even though my intent was not to do a very low cal diet in a consistent manner, at least (hopefully) no harm done over the years...except still a struggle with the weight. However, now that I am back on track with the exercise, this will turn around in a while. And, with the disk situation, I am eager to lose some of my body weight...that should give me some relief on my disk as I start physical therapy. My doctor approved the HCG, so I was pleased he was for it.

OK...I get passionate about this topic and I did go on a bit. If you are still with me :) I thank you again for the suggestions and concern.

Take care,

Mary

[lesur]

I hate to keep feeding the troll, and particularly to go against my own advice, nonetheless here's my proof.  I am on the protocol.  I am loosing fat like never before.  I am never hungry. I am not undernourished nor weak, in fact I have more energy than I've had in years.  Don't be a hater man.  Like the good doctor said, open your mind.

And just to alleviate any concerns, I am just an average Joe.  Not connected to any supplier/doctor/clinic/etc nor am I financially profiting in any way from people using this fantastic protocol.

On the whole Kevin thing.  Who cares?  I am happy he brought it out in the open and he deserves credit for that.  The real protocol is Dr. Simeons Pounds and Inches, which by the way you can purchase from my website....LOL, just kidding about the purchasing thing. (for those interested do a google, you'll be able find a free, downloadable copy).

Dr. Gonzo, thanks for contributing your valuable time to this board and the protocol, and for your insightful and well thought out posts. I do believe skippy ball owes you  $500, although I wouldn't hold my breath on getting it.

[GonzoDC]

$500 could help a couple of patients.........

Anyway, more articles related to the hCG research.

11. Birken S. et al.. Isolation and amino acid sequence of COOH-terminal fragments from the beta subunit of human choriogonadotropin. J Biol Chem. 1977 Aug 10;252(15):5386-92
12. Birken S.. Chemistry of human choriogonadotropin. Ann Endocrinol (Paris). 1984;45(4-5):297-305
13. Birmingham CL. et al.. Human chorionic gonadotropin is of no value in the management of obesity. Can Med Assoc J. 1983 May 15;128(10):1156-7
14. Bonandrini L. et al.. Chorionic gonadotropin (HCG) in the therapy of chronic peripheral obliterating arteriopathy (CPOA) of the lower extremities caused by arteriosclerosis. Minerva Chir. 1970 Mar 15;25(5):368-83
15. Borkan GA et al.. Comparison of ultrasound and skinfold measurements in assessment of subcutaneous and total fatness. Am J Phys Anthropol 1982 Jul;58(3):307-13
16. Borkan GA, Hults DE, Gerzof SG, Burrows BA, Robbins AH.Relationships between computed tomography tissue areas, thicknesses and total body composition.
Ann Hum Biol. 1983 Nov-Dec;10(6):537-45.
17. Bosch B. et al.. Human chorionic gonadotrophin and weight loss. A double-blind. placebo-controlled trial. S Afr Med J 1990 Feb 17;77(4):185-9
18. Bousfield GR. et al.. Structural features of mammalian gonadotropins. Mol Cell Endocrinol. 1996 Dec 20;125(1-2):3-19
19. Bozzola M. et al.. Effect of human chorionic gonadotropin on growth velocity and biological growth parameters in adolescents with thalassemia major. Eur J Pediatr. 1989 Jan;148(4):300-3
20. Bradley P. Human chorionic gonadotrophin [letter]. Med J Aust Sep 25;2(13):510-1 1976

[GonzoDC]

It is hard to deal with metabolism and it is very individual. A low calorie diet overall can very much slow metabolism. Supplements help but supplements need to be tailored to the individual. Supplements do not mean ephedra or caffeine. I know the next question is what supplements and I am sure I will get that question. That needds to be determined after a full intake and eval by your primary physician/endocrinologist/weight loss physician.

There are companies out there that are doing a better job in manufactuing more bioavailable supplements. So many patients come to me with a bag full of supplements. I try to narrow things down for them. I do not want to mention them on this post because there is bias. But in general, a better bioavailable supplement is usually in a liquid, or ready-to-mix powder or a gel suspension and all organic. Pills don't usually cut it...in general.

Mary, PLEASE let me  know when you start the hCG protocol and how youare doing. I have 3 women that are starting next week.

More hCG related studies.

21. Brambilla F. et al.. beta-Endorphin and beta-lipotropin plasma levels in chronic schizophrenia. primary affective disorders and secondary affective disorders. Psychoneuroendocrinology. 1981 Dec;6(4):321-30
22. Bujanow W. Hormones in the treatment of psychoses. Br Med J Nov 4;4(835):298 1972
23. Bujanow W.Letter: Is oxytocin an anti-schizophrenic hormone?
Can Psychiatr Assoc J. 1974 Jun;19(3):323. No abstract available.
24. Cairella M.. Drug therapy of obesity. Clin Ter. 1978 Mar 31;84(6):571-92
25. Canfield RE. et al.. Studies of human chorionic gonadotropin. Recent Prog Horm Res. 1971;27:121-64
26. Cole LA.. Immunoassay of human chorionic gonadotropin. Its free subunit and metabolites. Clin Chem. 1997 Dec;43(12):2233-43
27. Emrich HM. Endorphins in psychiatry. Psychiatr Dev 1984 Summer;2(2):97-114
28. Ferrari C.. Use of a testosterone-gonadotropin combination in the treatment of pathological syndromes in adult males. Minerva Med. 1972 Jun 2;63(42):2399-408
29. Fiddes JC. et al.. Structure. expression. and evolution of the genes for the human glycoprotein hormones. Recent Prog Horm Res. 1984;40:43-78
30. Fiddes JC. et al.. The gene encoding the common alpha subunit of the four human glycoprotein hormones. J Mol Appl Genet. 1981;1(1):3-18
31. Fleigelman R. Metabolic effects of human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG) in rats. Proc Soc Exp Biol Med 1970 Nov;135(2):317-9
32. Gailani S. et al.. Human chorionic gonadotrophins (hCG) in non-trophoblastic neoplasms. Assessment of abnormalities of hCG and CEA in bronchogenic and digestive neoplasms. Cancer. 1976 Oct;38(4):1684-6
33. Gallo RC. Bryant J. Antitumor effects of hCG in KS. Nat Biotechnol Mar;16(3):218 1998
34. Giudice LC. et al.. Glycoprotein hormones: some aspects of studies of secondary and tertiary structure. Monograph. 1979 May 23
35. Greenway FL. et al.. Human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG) in the treatment of obesity: a critical assessment of the Simeons method. West J Med 1977 Dec;127(6):461-3
36. Grzonkowski S. Analysis of the results of the measurements of adipose tissue in the human body based on the study of skinfold thickness. Przegl Epidemiol 1989;43(3):272-82
37. Gusman HA. Chorionic gonadotropin in obesity. Further clinical observations. Am J Clin Nutr 1969 Jun;22(6):686-95
38. Hashimoto TK. Chorionic gonadotropin preparation as an analgesic. Arch Intern Med 1981 Feb;141(2):269
39. Hayes PA. Sub-cutaneous fat thickness measured by magnetic resonance imaging, ultrasound , and calipers. Med Sci Sports Exerc 1988 Jun;20(3):303-9
40. Weiss LW, Clark FC.Three protocols for measuring subcutaneous fat thickness on the upper extremities.Eur J Appl Physiol. 1987;56(2):217-21.
PMID: 3552659; UI: 87190331

[gabesgal]

Hows it going with your second time around. Has this worked for you? If so is it easy for a simple person to put together. Sounded kinda confusing, but cheaper. My husband and i want to try it but we can't afford the injections.

[kattraff]

i have been on the HCG diet for 5 weeks   not 1 pound have I lost...Last year I lost 30 and took a break....now I tried again with no luck   I am female 57 years old

[Shewoolf54]

I've been on the second go round for  12 days and I have lost 15lbs.   The sublingual recepie is one I got off the yahoo hcg dieter's site in the files section.  You use the injectable product  and adjust it to use it orally ( under the tongue 2 times a day)  

[XMaxine]

HCG Injections

HGC Medical is the telephone number that is in Trudeau's book for accessing the treatment.

Does anyone know how they recommend the recipe for the injections?
I went to a clinic and the way they do it is premix the water and the 15000 HCG powder, supply you with the needles and then you do the injections at home. Is this the premixing that should not happen according to Trudeau? What is the method for mixing recommended by Simeon?

I glanced throught he posts (new here) and did read shewoolf's recipe for HCG injections..... o just want to know what HCG Medical recommends.

Thanx

[rentergirl]

Where are you buying your HCG?  How many times have you used the oral recipe?  I am just not sure about the shots!

[psychnp]

thanks so much for sharing the sources....

[GonzoDC]

Which diet protocol are you following? It is very interesting that you aren't losing any weight at all at 500 calories a day, independant of the hCG. If you had a regular diet prior to the hCG protocol's diet then there is something amiss. Also, if you already had a VLC diet prior to beginning the hCG diet then there is definitely something wrong. You need to see your physician. 500 calories a day, if you have really been on that for 5 weeks should have warranted some weight loss. Are you obtaining the hCG from a physician? Is it oral or injection?

One more quick question. Why would you wait 5 weeks until stopping the protocol if you didn't lose a pound the first few weeks as expected?

[GonzoDC]

Are you not reading the posts? You have been answered and you have been called out.Please re-read 8/31 posts and answer that one before you repeat yourself again. Thanks

[ItalianMama3]

If you look at the whole weightloss forum - he put the same post on every single hcg talk all over this site yesterday.  

[ItalianMama3]

What proof got you to use B-12 for reasons other than it was intended for?

[GonzoDC]

You never answered my questions. Re-read the 8/11 post, respond and answer the questions. Or stop typing.

One more additional question...Why not let this forum move forward on it's own? You gave your statements. Let it be. Move on. You are stuck. Answer the questions first then spout your repetitions if need be. Please stop reposting old statements without answering mine.

"NO PROOF YET" is a meaningless retort. I asked you what it would take...5 pts? 10pts? 100?  Reply with an answer to the 8/11 post or stop typing.

[GonzoDC]

Sorry, mistyped the date..read the 8/31 post, you  know, the one with all the references. and then the ones after that..........

"I want your $500. You have no proof it doesn't work. I love how you state you have researched this "more than anyone." Quite a statement. You did not address my answer to your question and "proof" using the analogy of weight lifters awhile back. I won't go over it again, you can read it on your own. Like most "ebullies" you throw out "proof" and empty bets. You aren't betting a thing and you know it. Are 5 patients who have lost significant weight "proof" for you? 10 patients? 100?. No, you will play bully and contra no matter what. You have a wall in front of you. The world will always be flat to you.

I do not know why it works, and yes, I believe the hCG is not likely what releases the fat, though I am not sure. It is the 500 cal diet that loses the weight. But what is the role of the hCG? We do not know that, and I believe I have probably done more legitimate research on this than most. More than just Google searches. And there are plenty of journal articles, starting with the original Dr Simeons published in The Lancet.

Here is a list of the first 10 of 91 articles that I have read and studied form a medcial professional point of view:

1. Albrink MJ. Chorionic gonadotropin and obesity?. Am J Clin Nutr 1969 Jun;22(6):681-5

2. ASCHEIM S; ZONDEK B. Die Shwangerschafts Diagnose aus dem Harn durch nachweis der Hypophysovorderlappenhormone. Klin. Wochschr. 7:1401-1411. 1928
3. Asher WL. Harper HW. Effect of human chorionic gonadotrophin on weight loss. hunger. and feeling of well-being. Am J Clin Nutr 1973 Feb;26(2):211-8
4. Astrup A.. VLCD compliance and lean body mass. Int J Obes 1989;13 Suppl 2:27-31
5. Atkinson JH. et al.. Plasma measures of beta-endorphin/beta-lipotropin-like immunoreactivity in chronic pain syndrome and psychiatric subjects. Psychiatry Res. 1983 Aug;9(4):319-27
6. Bagshawe KD. et al.. Pregnancy beta1 glycoprotein and chorionic gonadotrophin in the serum of patients with trophoblastic and non-trophoblastic tumors. Eur J Cancer. 1978 Dec;14(12):1331-5
7. Balducci R. et al.. Effect of hCG or hCG+ treatments in young thalassemic patients with hypogonadotropic hypogonadism. J Endocrinol Invest. 1990 Jan;13(1):1-7
8. Ballin JC. White PL. Fallacy and hazard. Human chorionic gonadotropin-500-calorie diet and weight reduction. JAMA 1974 Nov 4;230(5):693-4
9. Bastow MD. Anthropometrics revisited. Proc Nutr Soc 1982 Sep;41(3):381-8
10. Berry JN. Use of skinfold thickness for estimation of body fat. Indian J Med Res 1974 Feb;62(2):233-9


"Not 1 study" you said. Since you stated you have researched this more than anyone else, I assume you have read these studies plus the 81 others I have found. Actually, I assume wrong since you said there is not 1 study out there. I am not pretending and neither are the patients I have on this protocol.

You owe me $500. I doubt you have the courage to pay. I promise you this. If you pay me, I will match that $500 and put it towards further research in this field.

I have showed you. Now, either pay me or stop typing.

DrG "

[autoguy]

Why dont you just ask him to have his employer (pharma company X) cut the check?  Clearly, his only function on these forums is to spread misinformation.

[sticknstarve]

You mentioned that pill supplements are not that effective. what's your take on Standard Process? BTW, have been taking hcg now for only 4 days and my weight loss is consistently 2 ilbs. per day

[ItalianMama3]

Did you have your patients do the 2 day gorge or 3 days- I have heard both on here and wondered if either is getting better results?

[GonzoDC]

I have them do a 2 day gorge. That is what the original protocol asks for. I don't have anything to compare 2 vs 3 days.

As far as oral hCG is concerned, if anything, the sublingual would be the only way to go but even then it won't be as effective or bioavailable as the shots. I only know Standard Process as an online pharmacy that is associated with Thorne Research, another brand. I have no experience or association with SP.

[sticknstarve]

Sorry if I was confusing. I am referring to your comments in an earlier post re: the bioavailability of supplements and since Standard Process uses whole foods, I was curious if you had an opinion since they are still in pill form vs. liquid/powder or suspension. I am currently taking a bunch of SP supplements so don't want to be wasting my money.  Your Post stated, "There are companies out there that are doing a better job in manufactuing more bioavailable supplements. So many patients come to me with a bag full of supplements. I try to narrow things down for them. I do not want to mention them on this post because there is bias. But in general, a better bioavailable supplement is usually in a liquid, or ready-to-mix powder or a gel suspension and all organic. Pills don't usually cut it...in general."

[Rocky12]

I have been on the diet now for 3 full days. I will weigh myself in the morning to see where I stand. Currently, I have lost 6.2 lbs in 2 days. Most of the weight was because I pigged out the 2 days prior to starting the strick 500calorie diet. The first day 4.6 lbs and the next 1.6lbs. I have been extremly strick with my calorie intake. I hope I will start to drop more weight faster. Is this typical? How can drop more weight? Any ideas/thoughts you help me with?

Thanks

[CHerman]

May I suggest that all of you please read Dr. Simeons paper. I've only read it once and from what I recall he states that his conclusions are merely hypotheses. What was clear is that you must follow the plan to the letter without deviation. For me to say it does not work for the simple reason that there is nothing in the way of rock solid evidence to back up the overwhelming successes would make me appear somewhat foolish.

For everyone that is interested in researching alternative uses for human choriogonadotropin please visit this site: http://hcgobesity.org/ifcor/ifcor.html. Just one of many sites I've found while casually looking into the possibilities of fat loss using hCG. I have yet to find any "scientific" data that proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that hCG promotes fat loss but I have found plenty of empirical data that says it does. For the record, I am injecting 3500 IU, sub-cu, 3X a week for hypogonadism. Since I am not following the Simeons protocol I am not expecting fat loss. If, however, I should happen to lose fat I will keep you posted.

[GonzoDC]

Please, stay out of this forum. You are redundant and baseless in your arguments and you have yet to answer the posts to you (rissy0147) dated 8/31/07 and 9/9/07. Stop posting please.  Also, I did not "let" Rocky say anything. Please, stop your tiresome reposts. YOu do not have an open mind and you aren't getting the fact that this is not about hCG being the reason for the weight loss. Please, do not say anything else until you answer those posts. Stop with the bodybuilder analogy. Read my posts, THAT DOES NOT APPLY to that population group. Whether you believe I am a physician or not is irrelavent. What part of all those refernces did you not understand that there is published work on this subject in very relavent journals. For someone who "is an expert on the body" and "has researched this more than anyone else " you have only shown you are selective and biased and without an open mind.  

Stop posting. And you owe me $500.

[GonzoDC]

The hCG alone is not going to help you lose weight. You already understand that. However, it would be interesting if you chose to do the 500 calorie diet along with your injections and see if you can handle it. Anyone on a 500 calorie diet will  lose weight. But for the average person 500 calories is not tolorable for any length of time. The idea is that the hCG will attenuate the side effects of a 500 calorie diet. I would be interested if you begin the diet.

[GonzoDC]

There are many things in the medical world that we do routinely that have not been proven "beyond a doubt." Lifesaving things. Advanced Cardiac Lifesaving protocols have not been proven beyond a doubt. Cancer protocols, certain pain medications that we know work but don't know why, neurosurgical protocols that work most of the time, things that are brought to public attention such as the cold normal saline protocol used in the NFL football player with the spinal cord injury that we have been using for awhile in trauma, heck, even witholding fluid boluses in trauma patients all do not have good studies to back them up. We use them anyway because though it may not work for everyone, the possibility of it working on a great majority of those who use those protocols exists. And so it goes, the practice of medicine. That is why we call it a practice. Not all medical protocols are backed up by evidence based medicine. We try to base the majority of our practice on it though. But if we based all of our practice on evidence based medicine, then we would not have breakthroughs nor would we have many good tools to take care of patients.

Anyway, that is a very brief note on a complex issue.

How this applies to the hCG protocol? Well, the protocol cannot be followed by a great deal of people so there really is no real money to be made on this protocol so no one really cared so much in the past. However, now that there is a growing number of overweight people that small percentage of individuals who can do the protocol is growing relatively speaking. So there is a renewed interest, along with the attention (good or bad) that Trudeau has brought to this old protocol that is allowing those who want to try it availble to them. Our forum "expert" Mr 90210 AKA bossrissy0147 is not understanding the above concept. He doesn't get that if all the people who are eligible and able to do the protocol in my practice do it, it would be less than 2% of my practice. I do not sell anything. I treat patients. And if 2% of my patients who can't find anything else to work can find this to work, then those are some happy people.

DrG

[girleegirl71]

Hi, I've enjoyed reading your many posts across the threads. Thanks for the info!

I have a question. I've been on hcg for 10 days, lost 11.6 lbs. Tomorrow is day 11, and I have to go to a wedding. I actually DONT EVEN WANT to cheat, I'm bummed that I have to go. Its very formal, four course type of thing and plain and simple I'm gonna have to eat something. Any suggestions on what I can partake of without causing TOO much of a setback? Also, should I skip my lunch meal? Just have an apple or something?

Thanks....

[CHerman]

Perhaps it is wishful thinking or some other psychosomatic response but my appetite does feel and has felt suppressed for the past 2 days. I have had 4 injections in the span of 8 days. The food I have been consuming has been more out of habit than actual hunger. It is curious that you brought up trying the diet since that is exactly what I had been considering since I ate lunch. Unfortunately, I don't think I will be following the exact food intake as prescribed by Dr. Simeons. More of a modified seat of the pants approach. Hopefully, a calorie restricted diet will still prove effective. One thing I would like to point out. To say that boys who take hCG for undescended testicles do not burn fat is incorrect. That is precisely the reason why Dr. Simeons began experimenting with using hCG for a fat loss protocol. He started out giving it to young boys that were obese and were not masculinizing as they should upon entering puberty. The halmark of this condition was large amounts of fat between the trunk and shoulders accompanied by breasts, as Dr. Simeons put it, that would make a maiden blush with envy . The hCG was initially used to help the testes descend but he noticed a odd side effect in that the large amounts of adipose along with the gynomastia began to disappear and this was without a modified diet. The rest is history. The story I just related was taken from memory so some of the details might be a little off. I urge everyone to find and read Dr. Simeons original work. It is quite fascinating. Not only does it give the history behind the diet but also very good detail on exactly how to follow it.

[GonzoDC]

Nope. Don't skip your lunch. Of course nothing will be organic at the wedding. Skip all fats at the wedding. Try to only eat very very small portions, a meat, chicken if possible and cut away all fats on any meat you get, fresh fruit. Avoid the fried or buttery veggies. Try to find whatever is fresh. Kind of hard for me to judge honestly. The protocol is the protocol and to deviate may cost more than just the calories taken in. But whatever you do, go right back to the protocol the next day.
Good luck and have fun!

[GonzoDC]

You are right about the origins of the protocol. What wasn't clear is how those boys changed their diet initially, if they just lost the craving to eat and ate less, similar to your approach right now or if the hCG actually was directly responsible for the fat loss. It may be a little of both. I believe, like most things that it is multifactorial and not a result of one thing (hCG, or diet) You are correct, though. They did lose weight. This whole thing is very interesting. Keep letting us know how you are doing.

[CHerman]

I have not kept a log of my observations so far so I am relating this from memory. After 2 injections of 3500 IU I began to notice that every time I ate I felt extremley full, as if the food was sticking in my stomach. I did not make any connection between this feeling and the hCG. This feeling continued and still continues today if I eat what I normally do. One morning I weighed in at a little over 197 when just the day before I weighed 195. The very next day I weighed in at 194. This morning I weigh 193. I also notice (as well as my wife) that my midsection is becoming smaller. These are very preliminary notes since someone could rightfully point out that water retention and loss could account for the weight fluctuations. Only time will tell and since you are interested in my progress, being that I am taking hCG for purposes other than weight loss, I will keep you apprised. I also should correct my earlier misstatements insofar as I believe I am experiencing fat loss, not weight loss which could encompass water, fat loss and muscle wasting. I enjoy reading your thoughts and am very interested to hear how your experiments with your 4 patients progresses.

[CHerman]

Why do you persist? You have no credibility here. Far be it from me to censor you but it only takes reading 2 sentences of your posts before I skip over them. You think you have a message but you are delivering it to a deaf audience. I have yet to read of a single contributor that has not lost fat on the hCG diet protocol providing they follow it to the letter. It would only take one comment from someone that Mary Jane or Joe Smith has either died or is in the hospital and the incontrovertible evidence points to hCG supplementation, that I would take a very hard second look. As my final comment, stand under a tree and knock down the bee hive hanging from it. As the bees swarm toward you simply shout to them "you can't fly! you can't fly!" since, from an aerodynamical standpoint, bees are not supposed to be able to fly. A poor analogy but I hope you get my point.

[CHerman]

The problem is your lips are moving but I can't hear what you say. Just consider that there are several million other young men out there that think they are smarter than you. There's a wide chasm between calling yourself an expert and actually being one. I can and have read the side effects listed on the web pages of the many manufacturers of hCG. There are many "experts" that claim filling your body with anabolic/androgenic substances for the sheer goal of gaining muscle mass ranks right up there with suicide. If that's the way you roll, carry on. I don't think anyone here would give a minutes thought to trying to school you on what you should and should not ingest. Why do you insist on attempting to be the watchdog for all of society when your lifestyle, at least the one I percieve you live, is quite possibly going to kill you before your time? If people here die from hCG supplementation, what is it to you? Why not hang out at the anabolic steroid sites where you will find people that agree with you? No one here does. But, that's neither here nor there. I've had my limited say. I prefer to converse with people that are willing to listen to both sides of an argument. Talking to you is like a "hammer into anvil". Peace, brother.

[AmyMP]

I'd like to tell you about my experience.
I've taken aspects of the program simply and seriously...

Eating less (Phase 2 recommendation of 500 cal program) while exercising more.  Walking outside between 1-2 hrs per day.  Am continuing to take hypothyroid med while on program.  Have noticed that when I push to 1.5-2 hours of walking per day (versus 1 hr, or oops! - missed a day), I naturally do see better results on the scale - and, moreover, though tiring, I do not feel pangs of hunger due to the HCG.  The HCG worked for me, in terms of abating hunger.  The COMBINATION (restricted calories, walking 1 hour or more a day, and taking the HCG to curb hunger) has yielded steady, strong results for me.  Starting at 5'3 229 lbs, I am now at 207.8 after 25 days on Phase 2 - and I feel great.  I expect to be below 200, as I finish Phase 2 in the next couple weeks.  One point to make - I know the HCG has been successful for me - as I didn't take HCG during my cycle per program instruction, yet still maintained 500 cal/day diet ---- I can tell you, unequivocally, I felt urgent hunger pains at the end of that timeframe, and could not have lasted on the program more than a couple days with that calorie restriction without the HCG.  I doubt I am losing structural fat/muscle - I feel stronger than ever from my walks - and my worst areas (butt, stomach) seem to be decreasing the most.  I plan to follow through the rest of the program, maintaining my 195-200 weight over the following six weeks, followed by another phase 2.  Lastly, I appreciate the book for its push to live a healthy lifestyle, which includes organic only, shower filter, and some other things - which I've adopted.  That said, I don't have a colonics technician on-call, nor a swimming pool without chlorine, nor am willing to go so far as several of the other more avant garde / expensive treatments - but the simple regimen of eating less, moving more, and doing so without hunger is paying off.

[GonzoDC]

I again refer you to post dated 8/31/07 and 9/9/07 and now 9/21/07. Dude, you still owe me $500. By the way, didn't you say you were on ephedra? You are killing us here. Read the stated posts, answer them and stop being repetative. Move on. Post on Craig's List, or do what you said you would do, stop posting if I showed you some literature. I did, so stop posting.

And pay me $500. I will put it to good use.

[SilverRun63]

I live in the Baltimore/Washington area.  My mother was obese and miserable all the time.  I don't know much about HCG, but a friend is reading KT's book.  I have never gained weight until now.  I am 43 years old, I have 4 children ranging from 25 to 5 and have gained about 25 lbs over the past 2 years.  I am tired and I also have been running a low temp of approx 97 degrees for at least a year.  I had blood work done to see if there was anything wrong with my thyroid or metabolism and the blood work came back normal.  So why were you looking for someone in the Baltimore/WDC area?

On another note, I think everyone should stop letting bboss get their goat.  

[GonzoDC]

My practice is in the Balt/D.C. area and I am looking for people interested in the hCG protocol. I am trying to build a database of information from real patients and not just from notes on an email board.

Your symptoms could be from a number of reasons. Premenopause and perimenopause may be reasons if you are not already post menopausal. The hCG protocol is not for everyone but if you have tried everything else and want to come see me, let me know how I can get a hold of you. If you can hyperlink an email to this posting then I can email you.

[Mary 53]

Silver Run,

Hi from a fellow (former)  Washingtonian (born and raised, before I moved away after college)....anyway, I wanted to suggest you find a Naturopath???  I hope that I am saying it right. Or, try an "anti-aging" doctor to check on the thyroid issue. I had the same issues for years to the point where although I was full of energy whenever I was moving ...as soon as I sat down, WOW, I could have fallen asleep. Falling asleep at red lights was the final blow and I figured maybe my regular doctor was missing something. I kept my regular doctor for most things but saw a specialst in "anti-aging" who had me take my temp for one week and also took another close look at FSH, T-3 and T-4 and Free t-3 and free T-4....the blood work values have also been redone over the past ffew years...meaning many of the labs are starting to take a closer look at bloodwork that may have looked normal a few years ago. My blood work was questionable, not too bad, but did not raise any red flags either,  but given my symptoms and also the LOW LOW LOW body temp....I was given a small dose of Armour thyroid. My energy increased and I no longer dreaded those red lights :)

I recently switched to Synthroid and Cytomel (I wanted to take a bioidentical product and recently found out that actually synthroid is a bio, whereas the Armour is not bio but is equivalant to what humans make. Armour is made from the glands of pigs)...it gets confusing because many people think that Synthoid must be synthetic since it is made in a lab. Well, many bioidenticals are made in a lab, but how they work in the body is the real test.

OK...point is, I got so much help from the Armour and now the Synthroid/Cytomel combination.

Just thought I would share this news with you.

And, regarding your other note, I have known Bboss (under various other names) for a long time now...and, frankly, we actually had a decent post back and forth on one occasion, but honestly, the troubled teens I work with on a daily basis have picked up the notion that when they give little "digs" to others and are constantly mocking and making jabs at other's beliefs, they lose their credibility and they also lose the trust of others. This is a high price to pay.

I spend all day working with teenage kids and their attitudes and we are constantly discussing the benefits of a positive attitude...as well as how we must treat others as we want to be treated. But, we also teach that if someone has an opinion that is different from theirs, they must learn to accept, compromise, agree to disagree, or all of the above, but then be done and move on. I find it tiresome to come home to my safe haven and have to deal with out of control attitudes and badgering, when all I want to do is share information on a well-respected forum.

I cannot speak for everyone, but this is why this poster is a huge problem for me. He will argue that he can respond respectfully to a poster, and actually he seems like a decent fellow when he does,  but unfortunetly we all know from experience that if there is ONE LITTLE deviation from HIS beliefs...BOOM! All respect goes out the window. This type of person is extremely hard to deal with and, frankly, we don't need it. I am, however, the eternal optimist, and would love to give anyone a second chance, but I was the victim of one of his highly disrespectful posts not too long ago, to the point where one of my family members begged me not to ever respond to him again, terming his response to me "mean and creepy."  He used initials for a very inappropriate slang comment. Sorry, I just don't need it. And, yes, I should have reported him.

Good luck on the thyroid issue...I also wanted to mention that one of the books by Christianne Northrup, MD, might be helpful. The information from the two books this doctor wrote literally has saved my life. I think you said  you were in your 40's...perimenopause...there is so much to learn and there are ways to feel better if you are at a point where your hormones are fluctuating. Women have to suffer so much, in my opinion...and there is help out there, but you have to really dig.

Take care...time to work out.

Mary

[Mary 53]

Hi Doctor G....I was took so much time typing my note to Silver Run that when I posted it, I saw that you had posted again as well in the meantime. Cool to see we are in agreement about some of the possibilities as to why Silver Run is not feeling her best.

If I still lived in the DC area I would certainly see if I could join you in your efforts to help people with the hCG protocol....meaning I would gladly be a client!

I just wanted to mention that I will be starting the protocol approximately next Wednesday or Thursday. I should receive the product Tuesday afternoon, according the GHI Medical. I have the support of my doctor here, but I elected to have the blood work, etc., done through GHI for various reasons. I hope to lose about 25 pounds...back to the weight I maintained for years and years after a college weight loss of 45 pounds, back in the early 70's. My body is very stubborn and holds onto weight like crazy. I have worked out for years and that has been my saving grace in many ways, but I need something more now. After years and years of studying the whole hormone issue ( I use the bioidentical hormones since a surgical menopause in 2000 that totally threw me for a loop, this protocol hit home for me and makes complete sense.


Anyway, a while ago, you asked me to let you know if/when I start the program...and, well, we're getting close.

Take care and thanks for offering your views on this forum.

Mary

[SilverRun63]

Interesting, actually I have never had to diet.  I would just cut back and lose weight.  Not now.  I have eaten a slew of restaurant food over the past few years.  My 16 year old daughter plays competative soccer in D1 in the Washington Area Girls Soccer League so we eat on the go so often.  I have not had the energy to shop for healthy food and (between me and my husband we have 7 kids) find something that everyone will eat.  Oganic food for a family of 9 is hard to afford.  Organic milk is at least $6 a gallon and just milk along would cost us approx $84 a month.

Anyway, I am only about 25 lbs over weight, and I hate it.  My friend on the other hand has a goiter and is on medication to get her thyroid under control.  She wants to try this diet/HCG plan as an alternative.  She has gained alot of weight in the last few months.

Here is an email address that you can contact me at:  ***@****

Talk to you soon.

[SilverRun63]

Ok, the email address hyperlink mailto:***@****.  If this does not work, please advise.

[SilverRun63]

tedious :)

Jazeygrl
@
aol
.com

[SilverRun63]

Yes, I understand.  I have 4 natural children 25, 16, 9 and 5.  As I watch each one I learn so much about the make up of individuals.  They battle each other for attention, treats, TV, etc.  When they badger each other, I ask them to stop.  Someone has to be the bigger person and let some thing slip off their backs.  In essence, ignore the comment, therefore the giving party receives no feedback to fuel their outburst, anger, etc.  I can't convince my own children, but hope that one day they remember those words when they are grown and on their own.

I wish everyone here the best of luck and hope that as individuals, we all find the answer we need.