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Just needing to vent about DH - How can I get him to help with the kids?
My DH is great about helping around the house, but when it comes to helping with my kids, he does nothing!  He never helped with my DS now almost 4, but now that I have 2 kids I really need some help.  I am working full time, too and he refuses to get up in the middle of the night.  I am so tired,  Today, I have been up since 4:00 a.m. and am at school with 21 kindergarteners.  It is really hard to have any patience.  If DH ever does get up, he ends up waking me up anyway saying he can't get my DD back to sleep.  Well, that is because she is not used to him!  Sorry if I am rambling, but I just need to vent!  How can I get DH to take more responsibility with the kids?  Any ideas would be helpful.
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146191 tn?1236881412
like i said, your plan sounds wonderful. im not disputing it in any way. im just trying to get you to see that the way you and your husband choose to love your lives is not the absolute onle and only way anyone can live their life. im sorry but you make a lot of very bold stereotypical statements. im sure stress plays a role in the way everyone's lives turn out, not just working families. have you ever known a SAHM to be an alcoholic? sure. how about a husband whose wife stays home? im sure thats possible too. you need to get off your soapbox because you don't know everything and you're trying to pretned like you do. i don't care how many times you've moved, how many people you've encountered, you don't know everything about everyone and im sorry but plently of families have both parents working and multiple children and are perfectly happy. one day, 10 years from now, i will show you one prime example of that - my family.
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First I would like to say that if I had 6 children like ponderousmom I would HAVE to stay home too because I'm sure that would be 3 times more money then to have them in daycare.  

As for the working mom divorce rate w/more than 1 child?  Where did you pull that one from? You dont know anyone?  Do you have any friends? My parents have been married for 30 years and have 3 children.  My Grandparents still married and have 3 children.  My best friend married for 10 years has 2 children.  My friend Kristin has been married 9 years has 2 children.  My DH is a firefighter and I can guarentee that more than half working moms have more than 2 or 3 kids and are still married after all these years. I can give you ALL the names...that just isnt true.  

I stay home, have money to spare, have a huge house, nice cars, but I would NEVER tell a working mother she is wrong for doing so.  I REALLY miss teaching and my adult interaction w/other teachers but for me we didnt need the money and guess what-my DH cleans, cooks, and does laundry!!!  Every household is different and it is what it is.  I absoultely would not have 6 children and be without a car.  What do you do all day?  Are your children getting social interaction with other children?  Those are social skills that they need.   AND I"M PRETTY SURE THAT THE OLDEST CHILDREN ARE HELPING YOU RAISE THE YOUNGER CHILDREN which I find sad.  Their life is not supposed to be helping you raise your kids and you can say all you want that they dont help but I know that's not true....they should be kids doing kid things unless your training them to get married at 16 and have babies like you did.  

I find your comments are always so rude and judgemental.  If someone has a question then answer it, if it's just to be mean or judge them then skip it.  How do you find time to sit on the internet when you have 6 kids?  Oh yeah, your older children are taking care of the rest of the family.

Last question, does your DH have more than one wife?  What are they called?  Pluralistic family I think?
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hmmm...and i wonder how i ended up so judgemental....try dealing with comments like that just about everytime you go anywhere or do anything for 12 years straight....makes you just love people!!!!
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So you are a pluralistic family!  That makes more sense...but seriously you can dish it but cant take it?  Just try being a little nicer.  Most people dont believe in having a husband that has more than one wife so if you dont like people judging you for that then dont judge people for making a dual income!  
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My mom had 5 and was a SAHM, and I was the second oldest and DID NOT help raise the younger three.  I had chores just like MANY kids do in households... I washed the dishes every night.. and I promise you I would rather wash the dishes after dinner and be thankful that my belly was full rather than running around being a nut.

Sorry, I take offense to people who bad mouth those with big families.  My mom had a sorry excuse for a husband, but she took care of us and never complained.  

I do not intend on working after my baby is born, and I do not work right now.  We only have one car in our household right now, well we have a gas-hog work van and my fiancee works about 50 miles from home.  He drives my car to work and right now getting another vehicle is on the back burner while we save to out-right buy a dependable car for me and the kids, rather than financing.

I agree with girliegirl that all households are different, with different needs.  Other men may not be as blessed as my man is to be able to make enough to afford to support our household, and pay an outrageous amount in child support.  

I will say that I am one of those women who get up at the butt crack of dawn to bring my man coffee in bed before he opens his eyes, I make him breakfast and I pack his lunch.  He comes home to a spotless home and a hot meal, and he gets a great big smile on his face.  He doesn't ask me to do these things.  A marriage is NOT 50/50 it is 100/100 with both of you giving 100%.

All of you are right.
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Out of curiosity, how old were you kids when you went to work for awhile?
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172826 tn?1423426556
about the school we have grants if you can maintain the grades..my 3 yr grade point average is at a 3.67 and that's pretty good considering they want to change my program to university..about staying at home and doing it one by one i have to go back because its a placement...its a 4 month placement and without it i cannot graduate..im done all the theory stuff...in 3 yrs of college i spent about 1500 on books myself...in 3 yrs of college i owe 23K..however without the grants and all id be owing about 40K now with a child and going back the gov't here tries and help you out more when you're a mom...

as for the bf he is taking a 3 yr program sumed up into a one year at a college where you do it at your own pace...it's cheaper and you get done quicker and the reason why his books are so expensive is because he is in school to be an internet security specialist..computer blah blah stuff...and that stuff is just really expensive.. a normal course here is about 2800 a yr for tuituon but for computer you're looking at 12000K for a year and times that by 3...see my bf is doing 3 in 1 so its costing him 15000K plus books...the books are far more cheaper through the school, weve looked at the option of ordering them online...thats what they do as well...because they want their students to succeed..so...it sucks right now but we hope its better...now i just got informed that he just got the job he had an interview for..its 50 cents more than his current job and he doesnt have to pay parking and the hours are going to be soo much better instead of 5-1 hes in 3-11...
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254689 tn?1251183640
Not to butt into this thread and raise anymore controversy but all of this talk about how good it was a few decades ago for women working or SAHM is really bull.  Twenty-three years ago when i had my 1st child, this debate raged on also & both sides attacked each other.

I've always worked either part-time or full-time when I had young children and let me say:  your time gets even more sparse when the children go to school.  There's no magical time to start having careers, etc.  In fact, in my opinion, children are even needier in their teenage years than in pre-school ones so some food for thought.

Everyone needs to respect each other on this issue.  The SAHM's shouldn't even think of putting working moms down for being 'selfish' for working.  As pointed out frequently, people don't have choices about providing for their families using one or two incomes - it's as true now as it was twenty-three years ago.  And dh's should help out w/children no matter what.  To the op:  I hope that you're able to get your dh to help out and realize his responsibilities.  I wish I had more advice to give but hope that good communication will get through to him.
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201326 tn?1234208291
This is just all mind boggling! Someone asks for advice and she gets all this negativity! In this day and age it's almost impossible to live comfortably with one income! Sure you can if you want to do without a lot of stuff. I'm 28 about to have my 4th and i just got a job working overnights part time. You do what you have to do. If I didn't work my kids wouldn't be in karate, dance class, brownies, cub scouts, gymnastics. My rent is 1,475 and with gas at 3.25 a gallon it's very hard, not to mention all the utilities. My husband helps, he has to. I can't be in 2 places at once with the kids. He doesn't help much with house work but he works full time, does side jobs and goes to school 2 nights a week. How much more could I ask him to do? Anyways, everyone lives their life the way they need to or like to. If everyone did it the same it would be a pretty boring world!
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All I have to say is that people need to be a little nicer around here.  I am tired of seeing some people that are on here and other forums ALL DAY LONG!  All they do is b*tch and complain. If you have that much time on your hands then you should be doing something more productive-like get a job.  NOONE ever has the right to judge someone on their parenting skills.  The SECOND that you attack a mommy or "mommyhood" the claws come out.  If anyone said anything rude or hurtful to me about the way I'm raising my DD you better watch out!  You just cant do that if you dont expect to get it back.  

LFB, I'm not sure you even got the answers you were looking for.  But I would explain to your hubby that you work full time and so does he so the chores and child care should be split.  You both are working very hard and you need to come up with a balance.  I really hope that DH will start helping a little more.  

AND for the record, Working moms and SAHM are both full time jobs.  DH's should help pitch in unless you are sitting on the computer all day then I would see why DH would expect you to cater to his every need...

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201326 tn?1234208291
Very well said!!!!!!!
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ok, sck--you have mad me change my mind about one thing, its just selfish woman in general.  i never once called anyone a bad mother--not once--read thru.  everyone defending themselves were the ones that did that--she needs more time in the day, thats my suggestion that was not, admittedly, again,  put nicely.  everyone disregarded everything i typed except for what they didnt like. and everyone only commented on the different parts of everyones posts they disagreed with, me to,  and im really mean arent i?? why dont you read my other posts that arent in this string.  i am married, i tried working when my kids were 5, 3 and 6mos.  and yes he did help out, as i said before.  but it didnt work.  i also have 3 kids in school at the moment, and just as the old saying if mom isnt happy, no one is happy, i think thats the same with teachers.  shes stressed and has to teach and nurture a classroom full of kids.  the sitting and talking is nice, sometimes it works, but if she was at the point of needing to vent, then, something isnt working.  and if she cant handle it all, how does she expect you, or any of you, expect him to be able to?  she is trying to figure out how to balance 2 kids, and its frustrating, and alot cant do it to theyre expectations.  i have been in the situation, i offered my thoughts.  and the teacher part, is what made me respond, and no, im not a teacher, but ive dealt with several.  and im not saying shes a bad person, teacher, or mother, i said shes spreading herself too thin.  for all the teachers my kids have had, there are 3 that couldnt handle it.  and i dont think it was because they werent good at it, but rather, they just had too much going on.  you want an example??? (i probably wouldnt have been mean if this werent going on right now)
currently, my daughter is in the 6th grade, and shes on the math team.  she joined last year and had fun, and their team did pretty good, made it to state before they got beat.  the teacher that led it retired, so this year, things are different.  this woman has taken on too much, and wont let go of any of it, and the kids are paying.  she keeps cancelling practices, she isnt prepared when they do have them, and she totally forgot about a meet.  so, as you imagine, they arent doing so well.  and the team is getting smaller and smaller.  and my daughter is ready to quit because its just discouraging now.  and the teacher has been offered help by different parents, she refuses.  does that mean shes a bad person??no, just means she wants more then she can handle.  my son had a pregnant teacher for the 3rd grade, she was so nice in the beginning, then that part of pregnancy kicks in where everything smells.  she would smell the kids every morning--which is just too weird to make up.  she would write in the weekly letter, make sure your kids are clean so my classroom doesnt stink.  it even go to the point that one day, she walked around to each individual child and made them take off their shoes and smell them.  now, how well do you think that set with those 8 yr olds??? and she was let go after that, but still.  and yet again, im not saying the op will do this, im saying that she is responsible for other peoples children by her choice, and she has a lot going on right now.  she needs to fix it.  and yet again, have i gone around bashing working mothers?? i said in the first post i planned on working--which reminds me, i want to know how the teenage years are worse if you come back--i have one getting close, and i wasnt a typical teenager, so, info would be nice, because i dont have experience in that area.  but anyways...yes i stereotyped, as did everyone else.  but you know what--when you go to walmart, what do you see?? lines full of cars with car payments, people wandering around the store on there cell phones, kids roaming about alone, or kids throwing fits wanting this and that and the parent plopping it in to the cart.  is that just me seeing that?? you see the new developments going and its wow, i want that, just like everyone else.  and people are so concerned what their family looks like from the others persepective, they do whatever they have to to get it.  and no, you dont stop to think what it took them to get there, or how they got there, what they gave up or their mental state for that matter, you just look and then see what you dont have, and it makes you feel like less of a person, or you arent doing something right, because you arent like them, and ideals and morals and values get compromised.
and guess what, im not doing a thing right now except wasting time on here--3 kids are at school, 3 are napping, suppers in the oven, and i have laundry drying, excuse me for sitting down.
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Here's what I dont get....you went to work when your kids were 5, 3, and 6 months...why?  What was the reason you went to work that was different from everyone else on here?
It must not have been for money if you were able to quit because you didnt need it, so why did you?
Sounds like you did what most other mothers are doing, but because it wasnt working for you, you stopped. So, why are you now putting everyone else down for doing what you did?
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93532 tn?1349374050
Wow, and people have accused me of causing drama on here : )

Look, bottom line is the divorce rate has increased exponentially since women started working outside the home. Pick up any sociology book or study on divorce and you will find that. The rates are higher for those with children and last I heard, the #1 driving force behind divorce is financial issues. Struggles over independence, bickering over finances, etc.

I am not about to say that it is bad that women work outside the home. Not my life. But I cannot also help but notice the frazzled nerves of the moms who work outside the home and the way their children are making their demands on their time either via not sleeping or being clingy.

Some women NEED to be away from their kids for reasons other than finances, but it is an acceptable excuse rather than saying they need the break. Society programs us all to believe that being a mom is natural and to complain about the demands is unnatural.

I, for one, love being a SAHM. But it is 1000 times harder than when I worked and went to school full time. But I am also a student as well as the mother of three young boys. We have been dirt poor but made it work so I could stay home. And now things have turned around and we own a home, have a newer vehicle, and have some of lifes little luxuries. But it took time and patience. I have been a SAHM since I was pg with my first. It has never been an option to return to work outside the home, we wanted (yes, collectively we decided) that our children would benefit more from having their mother home to raise them than being in daycare. It doesn't work for everyone. But it works for us.

And to answer the OP. Ask for help. It seems so simple, but men are not mind readers, tell him he needs to do more. I have always taken on the majority of the care during the first year as I nurse exclusively and that leaves little for John to do as far as night time feedings. But, he does diaper duty when he is home and he bathes the kids. I do more around the house because that is my job, so are the kids. I am the one they look to for comfort, though John is an adequate replacement when needed. They love us both for different things and we are okay with that. I am the one who nurtures, cooks, reads to them most of the time while he is the one they get down and dirty with in the mud or wrestle with.

We all have different roles in life. One is not superior to the other. But I feel as do most experts that kids should be home with their mothers during the first 3 years of life to get the best start. Again, it doesn't work for everyone. My MIL was not a good caregiver for her kids, neither was my step-mother. So it is not black and white.
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254689 tn?1251183640
In my experience of having four teenagers and working extensively w/other teens, they require lots and lots of time and energy.  Their lives are usually very, very busy w/school, extra-curricular activities - not to mention all of the other stuff:  boy/girl stuff, friends, drama, drama, drama  Plus then they have extensive hormones - both boys and girls - and dealing with that is also is fun.  They are full of questions about everything - spiritual, emotional, physical things.  I could elaborate but I don't even know where to start there's so much to say.  Let's just say that nearly all of them have issues.  Oh and then there's those life decisions like deciding what to do after high school:  going to college (then it's deciding which one/how to pay for it/getting financial aid, etc).  For some it means marriage or going straight to the work force.  

I don't want to sound like a downer:  having teens is wonderful but make no mistake:  it is work.  They may be able to dress themselves (although sometimes that's questionable as to what's appropriate) & do personal hygiene but they need lots of support (emotional, spiritual, etc).   I don't think having teens are necessarily so much harder - it's just that they're children still who require lots of parental attention.
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146191 tn?1236881412
ok. lets do it this way. since now everyone is an expert on what is best...

first, what will my son lack from having a mother who works and having to be in daycare? will he not grow up to be a good child, good adolescent, good man? well rounded? intelligent? happy? clean? fed? loved? what will your children have that my son does not simply because i am a working mother and he sepnds his days with other children in a controlled enviornment i approve of? it is one thing to say that being home with your children is "best" but who decides? who are these experts? do they know me? do they know you? no! they don't. i want someone to tell me, flat out, what my child will be lacking??? no matter what i NEED to do with life, such as work, does not mean that my husband i will not raise him the best we can, just as any other parents would whether the mother has the ability to stay home or not. and for the record, i am not making up the fact that i have to work b/c i want a break from my son. the point i keep trying to get through to everyone, that this is not a one size fits all type of decision. "experts" say its best for the mother to stay home for the first 3 years, but, don't some children whose mothers were home with them have problems later in life? whether or not mothers stay home with thier kids, some will still grow up to have problems, regardless. learning disabilities. drug problems. social problems. so, no one can tell me, for one second, that my son will not grow up to be the best child he can be just because i work.

second, i am not even going to comment on the divorce rate, because for anyone on here to claim they are knowledgable on the subject is laughable. no one knows for sure why the divorce rate is so high. maybe its becuase people dont value marriage as much as the y used to, because it has become so common place to get divorced. i don't know as im no "expert" but i can tell you than more than half of the divorces i work on every day are those where the wife is a SAHM. so, the divorce rate going up bc moms are working and want independence is not a solid statement, imo.

third, as far as the teachers with less time and patience bc they work or they're pregnant - come on. people have lives outside of their jobs. they are plenty of teacher with no home life whatsoever who are still crappy teachers and mistreat children they teach. some doctors with 3 kids and crazy family lives are better than doctors with no kids and nothing going on at home. sometimes, it has nothing to do with your homelife and more to do with your ability in your profession and who you are as a person.

last, there are two sides to every coin people. like Andi said - its not black and white. although, unlike Andi, im not relying on opinions of "experts" who dont know my family and my life. im relying on what i know as a person, a woman and a mother and as a mother, i am confident that i know what is best for my family and my life and not one person is going to tell different. expert or not. in 10 years, like i said earlier, when i have more than one child and am still married and still working, i will find each and every one of you and prove my point. until then, some people on here just need to let sleeping dogs lie. stop trying to get everyone to jump on your bandwagon and let people live their lives they way they decide. this forum is about offering advice, not about telling people all the things you belive are "wrong" with the world. in society, they are far more worse things happening right now than moms going to work. instead of critisizing the decisions of mothers to go to work, try commending those who do work, help support their family and raise wonderful children. its not an easy thing to do, but hundreds of women do it everyday.
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OK I got tired of reading thru all the arguments so back to the original question.

How to get him to help out.

Do you both have weekends off?  If so just pack up an overnight bag and go visit your parents if they live close enough or a friend for one night.   Be close enough in case of an emergency but it gives him the total experience of dealing with the little ones alone.

If you don't have weekends.  Do it on a night that he has the next morning off so he doesn't have to get up for work the next day.  You may have to do it on a work night and go to work from the friends house, stop by your house for lovin's from the kids and a kiss from hubby before heading off.

Before you all jump down my throat about men shouldn't have to do this kinda stuff.  I'm not suggesting he do all the work all the time.  It's an experiment.  Aren't scientist male?  Just a taste of what she does.  Then maybe he will get up at least 2 night out of 7 to help, or give a bath or two.  That will be better than nothing.  

What's the old saying?  "Walk A Mile In Someones Else's Shoes"  oh and then there's the other one  "What Doesn't Kill Us Makes Us Stronger"
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93532 tn?1349374050
Just to clarify who these experts are, these experts are the pediatricians you see when you take your child in, these experts are the educators you trust your child to in school, these experts pour over data collected over the last century or more based on prison records, surveys, etc.

It may not be one size fits all...but it does fit most. This is a random sampling of 10 folks, this is data collected for millions of families over long periods of time. Some folks will never see the value of scientific study, especially when it goes against what they do. But the moment it supports their cause, they are quick to cite it.

Google "divorce rates in the US" or "causes of divorce rate increase in the US" and let us know what you find. Pick up a college textbook about Social Problems or even just plain old Sociology and do some reading. While you are at it, why not also pick up a few books on Developmental Psychology and Infant/Child Development and look up the recommendations for child rearing environments during the first 3 years of life.

Come back after you have done your reading and let me know what you think.



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116879 tn?1266519849
Sorry...not everyone has the luxury to be a SAHM (sorry to agree with others) Not only that, if something ever happens and you are completely dependent on your hubby, you have no money of your own or no career--boy you will run into trouble.  I have a REAL luxury to be able to work a few days a week but that is only because I have the misfortune of in-laws living with us (yes I can work, but yes, I have NOOO Privacy!)

So in an idealistic world every mommy could stay home but the reality is the divorce rate is 50% and you need to be prepared if something goes wrong.
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ponerousmom-I did read through your posts and yes you were implying that working mothers aren't good mothers.  Also, you say this about working mothers "everyone posts on here about how tired they are, about their baby not wanting to sleep without them, but alot of the times, thats the most attention they get in one stretch by their mother."  Didn't you say a few weeks ago that your children slept with you until they were like 3 or 4 years old?  And that women who "teach" their baby how to sleep through the night are trying to fit babies into their schedule?  You are contradicting yourself here.  Why do you have children who sleep with you for that long?  Do they need more of your attention?   No.  It boils down to parenting.  Everyone chooses to parent in different ways.  I'm not saying my way is better than your way.  For me, my child will not run my house.  She will follow my rules that I set for her.  
AND for the teacher being too tired.  ANY profession you look at a mother can be too tired!  What about the surgeon who is about to cut you open but was up with their DD all night?  Or the airline pilot who was tired...The first 3 months of my DD's life I was completely exhausted.  My job was staying home but guess what, I was exhausted and cranky.  I couldnt clean or cook. So my Dh helped me.  As I am sitting here right now with the flu he is sweeping and mopping our floors.  He just knows when I cant handle anymore.  I dont have to ask-he just does it... Staying home is by far harder than my teaching job.  Sometimes I wonder if I made the right choice.  Of course I wouldnt change it for anything but there are definitely bad days.. I was a teacher for 5 years.  I was REALLY great at what I did.  Parents requested to have their children in my class and were very upset when I left.  I chose a career that I can go back to when my children are in school and I can get off at the same time.  Will I be tired then?  Sure!  Taking care of a household, working, and being a wife and mother will be tiring.  But look at the teachers you are describing.  I taught across from a teacher who sat on her butt the ENTIRE day.  She NEVER taught her kids anything.  Her scores were always low and she had them self teach certain things.  She didnt have any kids, so what is her excuse.  Then there is another teacher who has 5 children and she was one of the best teachers at our school.  I agree that some teachers should never get into that profession-it is by far one of the hardest jobs if you are doing what you are supposed to do.  It just isnt 6 hours.  I was there from 7-6 every day and I took work home with me.  I'm pretty sure that when I was teaching and pregnant-(I had TERRIBLE morning sickness and would run out to barf) I was still a great and fantastic teacher.  My kids scored the highest out of 3rd grade on their state test!  So saying that someone is too tired so they arent a good teacher just isn't true.  Tired and cranky happens to the best of us!
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146191 tn?1236881412
dearest Andi - maybe the reason people think you start trouble on here is because of things like this. you're jumping down my throat when i was never personally attacking you or the decisions you've made with your life. im not telling you your information is wrong, im just telling you that whoever is saying it doesn't know ME and i am a good mother, whether i work or not. so do me a favor and back off.

in response to you - "these experts are the pediatricians you see when you take your child in" - well, i just took my son in for his one year checkup yesterday and my pediatrician commended me for how happy healthy and advanced my son is. he also commended me for a being a working mother and said he has nothing against daycares, doesn't see a difference in children who at home v. in daycare aside from being sick more often. "these experts are the educators you trust your child to in school" - do you have any idea how many educators we "trust our children to" everyday who have no clue what they're doing? and are total nutjobs? more than a handful! i hope they didnt partake int his "research". "these experts pour over data collected over the last century or more based on prison records, surveys, etc." - don't even go there as i take that to imply that a prison record review will reveal that more prison inmates had working mothers as opposed to mothers who stay home. that is LAUGHABLE. HAHAHAHAHAHA.

let me ask you a question - if the "data" didn't fall in your favor, would you get down off your soapbox? well, i'll tell you what - even if the "data" doesn't fall in my favor, im not changing my position. please don't tell me i need to "come back after i've done my reading". i am not trying to say you don't know what you're talking about Andi. i'm pretty much saying i don't CARE what you say the "experts" say because i know how i want to raise my child. and i'm pretty much saying i don't CARE why the divorce rates are so high - i'm not getting divorced. all i'm trying to get across is that whoever your "experts" are and whoever wrote the books don't know me or my family or my child. i can read all the books in the world, thats not going to change the fact that i need to work and i have a son. so...i will not come back after i've done my reading, i will come back after i have raised a happy, well rounded, intelligent child while being a working mother and you can take that and do with it what you will. i could care less what every other sally sue and mary do with thier lives, im doing what i feel is best and no one, not you or your experts or your books can tell me im doing it wrong.
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why did i orginally go to work?? mostly for pride i suppose when i stop and think about it. my ds#1 had seizures for a month when he was 2, and we racked up alot of medical bills caring for him and looking for a diagnoses.  we actually could have gotten medcaid to pay for it, but we were determined to not be the stereotypical teen parents.  i was actually fed up with the constant comparing, and i gave in.  because when your a sahm, you get nice remarks like--why dont you contribute??  or i know so and so and they have kids and they work and they go to school, why do you just stay home? (mil who would later tell me the same person is getting divorced). and when your a teen parent, its the did you graduate? are you still at home?? i bet your mom helps you alot. and i can keep going--but just so you know, if you wonder why the young mom shoots you a dirty look at the grocery store--thats why--i had complete strangers telling me how to live everytime i went out, it wore on me.  and we were very happy before i started working, and even in the beginning, it wasnt bad--we got the bills paid down, and then came the dependable car, and im tired go buy dinner, but as time went on, we werent ahead so much anymore, because we got in the habit of spending the extra. and we really couldnt afford money wise for me to quit--atleast the way we were living--but i quit anyways.  but we tried to figure out what went wrong--and thats what it all stemed from, and it was more important to us to keep our family.  and we gave up alot, including our credit score, but oh well.  we just fell in to what everyone thought was best for us, what we saw everyone else doing.  and we went back to 101 ways to cook a pound of hamburger, with smiles on our faces.
and i agree with you sck on i wouldnt want a tired cranky medical person working on me or anyone, and everyone gets cranky, and every mixes home and work together, and some people just shouldnt be teachers, and it wasnt that they had kids or was pregnant, it was they couldnt handle their lives, and they shoulda backed out or asked for help instead of carrying their problems onto the kids in their classroom.  i dont imagine they like themselves very well for doing it either, but they cant take it back.  so why let it get that far??  why keep struggling to save face??  everyone screws up--we did, i do it, just part of life.  and if you can work and be happy, and take care of the kids they way you want--good!!! im honestly glad.  we couldnt do that, and im sure were not the only ones.  and im greatful we could admit to it before it ended us.  and i did bash, but as you say, moms defend themselves.  
and i still read the op, and i see that hes improving, and hes trying, and shes not happy.  thats what i get out of it.  and quality time is extremely important, but you have to have quantity too.  you need clean clothes to wear and food to eat, and you need time to yourself here and there too.  and once you have 2--you try to help each other, mom has one dad has one--and you cook, i clean, and blah blah blah--and it starts wearing on you, then your tired, your snippy, and its well i did this this and this and you only did that..and it builds and builds. because you keep working, you keep maintaining your lifestyle, theres no compromise.  and the only thing i can think of to fix that situation is time.  even if its calling off one day a week, on either spouses part--theres just not enough time, and if you want quality, you have to allow for, dont know the word i want here, but maintainance? time.
and i love being a sahm, i want to give my kids everything i can, but when their that little, your time is so much more important, and it just seems like people are so worried how they appear to other (we were) that they give in.  we ultimatley lost our house anyways because of his company closing down, but we built back up, and are back to owning a house again, and getting the extras here and there, but you have to work hard and be patient.  all this now now now instead of slowly working your way towards your goals is killing everyone.  and the whole working just to be prepared incase your husband turns out to be an idiot.....i guess you have your point, but isnt that almost expecting it to happen??  i just think thats a sad way to think--and im not being mean!!!!  but its sad to prepare yourself for the end of something thats supposed to last a lifetime.
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and oh, i never let my kids--any of them sleep in a bed with me--i posted before about letting them cry it out when they were around 2, but thats when they went from crib to bed and all that fun stuff, unless theyre sick, or occasionally when theyre babies ill let them sleep with us of and on when theyre still feeding at night, but bedtime is a must in my house.  im a stickler for a schedule and i dont know how you keep one when you let kids sleep with you.  so that sure wasnt me!!!
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146191 tn?1236881412
i just want to say one or two more things- one is that i REALLY don't want to get into with you. i know you are very bright and educated woman who has more experience than me and i truly don't believe that you are critisizing mothers who have to work. here's the thing - im not saying one way is right and one way is wrong and id really like to think you aren't saying that either. i respect your education and research but i also stand by my decisions as a woman, wife and mother. just 2 years ago i was a 21 year old partying at all the bars with my girlfriends and within a year, i was married and pregnant, now at 24 i am married, working and raising a 1 yr old. all im asking for on here is for SAHM's like ponderousmom and yourself to respect the choices people make in their lives and not tell them they are doing the WRONG thing. you have to understand how hard that is for women like us to hear and not be so judgmental!
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93532 tn?1349374050
I never once said I thought it made you a bad mom to work, please read my post carefully before assuming I did. I made it clear these decisions are not mine and that I recognize that there are some women who clearly are better off not being the primary caregiver for many reasons.

There are children who benefit from being in the care of others, there are children who do not. I said it in my original post, this is not black and white but rather full of shades of gray. Yet we need to realize that sometimes it puts an enormous amount of stress on a family and the children when both parents work themselves to the bone trying to provide non-essential things.

My son doesn't remember living in a tiny house when he was an infant, but he does remember spending time with me. I saw all of my children's "firsts" it is those things that mattered most to me. I realize many feel they cannot stay home, we gave up a lot of material things to do so. I believe we have been repaid for our sacrifice now.

Again, it is not my life nor is it my goal to change anyone's mind. But I have a hard time seeing folks jumping on one another for something so silly. Ultimately no one is going to change their mind. No one is going to say their position is wrong. I just wanted to add some real information rather than opinion to the mix. The stats are scary, but the divorce rate has decreased recently. Still too high, but it is progress. There are many reasons for the elevated divorce rate, but most notably in the 20th century was the passage of Women's Rights laws, which helped a great deal of women gain the strength to leave relationships they felt trapped in. That is progress. But i do not feel trapped in my life, in fact I feel incredibly blessed to be able to stay at home with my children.
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146191 tn?1236881412
im sure you do feel blessed to stay at home with your children. i feel blessed just to have my child. it seems to me that you are being hurtful towards working mothers while trying to "sound" like you're still being nice.

for example: "I made it clear these decisions are not mine and that I recognize that there are some women who clearly are better off not being the primary caregiver for many reasons."

i am not "better off" not being the primary caregiver. i choose to work. i am still his mother. if i were home with him 24/7, i would be the same mother i am now. i would be able to do either. i choose to work. that doesnt mean i couldnt be home and wouldnt do a great job if i did.

i do realize that it does put stress on a family when both parents work, but so do a million other things. while i appreciate your real information, what im trying to get everyone to see is this isnt about whats right or wrong or what the statistics and numbers say, its about people living their own lives. i would have offered advice to the original poster and left well enough alone if ponderousmom didnt bash women who work and call them "selfish". i dont need anyone to pat me on the back or tell me im right, just dont tell me im doing the wrong thing with my life because its just that, my life. and

again, i dont care about the divorce rate. i deal with divorce every single day in my work and the reasons are as varied as the people who are getting divorced. sometimes people leave marriages for valid reasons, but most of the time, its one or the other or both people who dont appreciate the sanctity of marriage and are selfish. but thats neither here nor there. bottom line is - i choose to do what i do, you choose to do what you do, ponderousmom chooses to do what she does and so on and so on, none of us is better than the other, we are all right in our own minds. to each his own.
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242084 tn?1244551910
It's funny how it can go both ways... as a SAHM, I find that "I" usually get judged more hashly than working moms!  I don't know how many times I get the "since you aren't working, I'm sure you have plenty of time to...."; and even some of my neighbors have made cruel comments about how I must be "lazy" since I just sit home with my son all day!  Funny, how it goes like that.  Even my own parents don't respect my dh's and my decision for me to stay home and raise our children, as they think I have wasted all of my year's of college education and degree.

I agree with Andi in that posts like this just go on, and on, and on... and ultimately, it's not going to change anyone's opinion.  I respect everyone's right to chose on how to raise their children, unless it is at the child's expense.

As for us, we were living in expensive San Diego, CA, and I was working a prestigious job as a Senior Zookeeper at the San Diego Zoo.  We were married for 5 yrs and bought our own home all the while realizing that we couldn't afford to survive without 2 incomes living with our current lifestyle, if I was going to be a SAHM.  We made the hard decision to instead sell our home and move to a cheaper cost-of-living state like Missouri.  I left a job I loved and was priviledged to have had, moved to an older home, and left every single friend and family we had.  Is there times I miss CA?  Absolutely-- especially on days like this where it's snowing and below freezing out there!  But, it was a choice we chose to make for me to be a SAHM like I wanted to... a hard choice, but one I don't regret.  Do I think that others should do the same???? NO-- not unless it's what you truly want to do.
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93532 tn?1349374050
Talk about a fun job to have! And kudos to you for going with your heart. I, too, have seen the judgements go the other way with regards to SAHM's. But I know how well my children have developed being home with me. Not a conversation with others has gone by without constant compliments on how well behaved, intelligent, or polite my boys are as a result of being raised the way we have chosen. I do not regret my decisions and that is what is most important. Whether you work outside the home or stay at home, you need to be comfortable with your decision and your family needs to be as well.

And lastly, girlie, you could not be further off base with regards to the intent of my comments. I have not been out to condemn those who work outside the home. To say that is the case speaks volumes about your own feelings about the issue, not mine.
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I am not a mom or anything but this was a great thread. It's very interesting to hear different points of view on this subject.  Andi is a great poster.  I always enjoy reading what she has to say because she seems to study everything under the sun.  She has helped numerous women on here with their pregnancies and made a bunch of us laugh with her observations.   If I ever got pregnant, I seek her out and ask her for advice!  Girliegirl, SeeingSpots, Ponderousmom, and others you're great too.  It's a controversial subject, I have my own views too but since I'm not a mom, those views aren't worth much.   I will say that every mom is a working mom but some just work "outside" the home as well.  
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93532 tn?1349374050
Awww, thanks May ; -)
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Anytime girlfriend....I really love reading your posts!!!  You're a smart one!  I'm a big fan.  Besides, you have a cool name.......
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93532 tn?1349374050
I was going to say the same to you, your name rocks : )
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242084 tn?1244551910
Hugs to you both! :-)

Have a great weekend!!
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308074 tn?1289690946
For once, I have to agree with AndiJ.  We have had a few disputes, nothing major, but out of all of them, I can say I agree with you.  I also agree with  ponderousmom.  I dont want to really get into it, but come on, has any of you working mothers read the bible?  What does it say about the womens place?  AT HOME.  You can live off ONE income, just you need EVERYTHING that is new, wonderful looking, and expensive.  A womens place is at home, taking care of the children, and house work, and helping with your husband.  Your husband is to work, and provide for his family.  If either of you cant preform your task, then it is your problem.  

I know where my place is, but I too want to work, which is kind of hypicratical, but you know why I want a job?  So I can have what I dont need.  I want expensive things, but I am happy with what I have.  God gave me what I got, and I dont need to get a job just so that I can go out and buy the latest technology.  There are things you can do at home that can still earn you money.  DAYCARE, I do surveys online that pay.  

Being at home ALL DAY should be a blessing.  You may get irratated, but they are such a joy.  You can see them grow up, and help teach them.  When they are in school, then it should be good to get a day job, something to do while they are gone.

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Same to you SeeingSpots!  Enjoy the long weekend.  We have MLK day off so it's a 3 day weekend for me!!!  
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326352 tn?1310997895
Wow, what a post...

I'm a mom of 2 (3 yr and almost 2) and had hoped to be able to stay at home with my babies. Actually did stay home for just about 3 years until our savings started to get real thin and decided to return to the work force to ensure that we didn't lose anything we already had.  

Sometimes things happen in life that are seriously unplanned for.  9000 dollars in medical bills was what did it for us.  Yes, that's almost 10 grand out for medical stuff and doc appts and things to put me back together again.  All in one year, I did our taxes and was appalled and actually relieved that it wasn't our extra spending that did it.  This past year was no better, either.

The first year I stayed home was pretty good, tough, but things went downhill because life happened.  My dad got sick, I got cancer, got pregnant, dad died, mom moved in, had baby, mom built a house next door, had radiation and then reconstruction....so many things happened in the short space of 3 years.  It was overwhelming.  I can't hardly remember being a mom to my little one, who is at this moment snoring in the bed between me and dh.

We have issues, especially the first issue which brought this post to the forefront.  The oneous is one me to do for the girls.  It started because I was the SAHM, then just because I am better at it.  I've asked dh to help, and God love him, he will try.  But, he just hasn't got the touch and it sometimes makes things worse.  So, I do get the least amount of sleep and do the most.  He tries to help by doing the behind the scenes stuff.  Some days he's really good, sometimes not.  That, I think is just life.  Because he would probably rate me the same way.

I made the choice to return to my job and I am thankful I can have a job that allows me to work 30 hours a week and still get fulltime benefits like vacation and holiday pay.  My mom who now lives next door takes care of the girls 3 days a week and the other two I've arranged to work while they are in Mom's Day Out at the church.  I take and pick them up those days.  I still have a flexible enough schedule for doc appts and taking care of sick babies when needed.  That is a blessing for me, some working mom's don't have that luxury.

Also, I discovered, to my aghast, that I sucked at being a SAHM.  Sorry, but I do.  I'm much more stable as a person and a mom being back in the work force.  My mom is a wonder, she's retired and does a pretty good job of being my SAHM for me.  In turn, we share expenses.  I still haven't figured out how she manages to make dinner with my 2 kids.  I always thought being a SAHM would be so easy and wonderful, well my experience, although marred by my cancer, was not all I dreamed of.  

I'm lucky I can have the best of both worlds...my mom is really good with the kids and we're back on financially stable ground.  Yes, we have some luxuries here and there, but we are also more relaxed in our house now.  

For me, ya gotta do what's necessary and try to find the balance in life.  Some women have talents where others just hope to have talent.  I'm mature enough to know where my talents are and are not.

I love my kids and I love my dh.  The answer to the original poster is this... encourage him to take on as many things unrelated to taking care of the kids as possible.  Drop some of your expectations or at least lower them.  It gets easier eventually.  It also gets tougher.  You are strong.  Oh, and have some time to yourself.  Now, that's a funny thing around here, 'cause the first time I left dh at home with baby #1, he called not an hour after I left, couldn't do anything to console baby.  Now baby loves him to death and lets him take care of her when I've got arms full of baby #2.  Things will change as time goes on.  I do encourage him to be the one to do the baths (while I take a break and sometimes that break is to just stare at the wall with a cup of coffee) and some of the stuff that he CAN do with the kids.  As they get older they'll let him do more.    

Have patience...I know...been there too....feel for ya....
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136689 tn?1419584047
i agree with above encourage your dh to help around the house i'm lucky cause i only work 17 hrs a fortnight and it's in the evenings so my dh looks after my 3 month old while i go to work, but i also look after his 4 other kids and do all the running around after them taking them to school and out of school activites but he appreciates all the stuff i do and the only reason i go to work is to get out of the house for my own sanity otherwise i'm sure i would have gone bonkers by this stage,
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146191 tn?1236881412
Andi, i never said you were out to condem those who work. to say that is to take what i pointed out a little too personally. i was referring to your comment about "better off not being the primary caregiver". it just seemed as though you were trying to say you're not against it, because they probably wont be good moms anyway. me pointing that out to you says nothing about my feeling on the "issue". that was my feeling on your comment. i think reading through the thread will give you a clear view of my feelings on the "issue". i respect your positions and opinions as everyone has their own, but don't try and tell me for one minute that by going to work everyday i am not doing whats "best" for my son. you staying home may be best for you and your sons,  i have to go to work and thats not because i am couldn't be a good mom if i stayed home. can you really be serious when you say your boys are so well behaved because you chose to stay home with them. no, your boys are  well behaved because you and your husband raised them to be that way. if my husband and i are committed to raising a well mannered, well behaved child, then we will do our best at that and the outcome will not change whether i am a working mom or not. its what you make of the time you spend with your children. quality time. that makes a difference. what about the moms who are home all day with thier kids and plop them in front of the tv? everyones attacking the people who choose to live their lives in a different way than you or raise their kids a different way when the bottom line is, you could be with your child 24 hours a day or 12 hours a day, its the way you parent them that makes a difference. your boys are as good as they are because of you and your husband. chances are, if your children did have a different caregiver during the day, they would still be the good kids they are b/c you and your husband would have taught them good behavior and manners regardless of whether you worked or not.
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171768 tn?1324233699
this post, as this forum lately, frustrates me, so i will be brief. i have plenty to say about the previous points raised but feel it's been thoroughly hashed out so i'll stick to introducing a new thought.

yes, we technically could cut luxuries and i could technically stay home. we could move far away from our family and support system to a cheaper part of the country, but my child would miss out on what i feel is a very important thing in life- family. one major reason i work is because of the future, not now. i could stay home and lose my benefits and pension. i could rely on my children to care for me in the future. i could stay home and pay a fortune for insurance through my husband's job, or opt to go without and risk financial ruin if illness were to strike our family. i could stay home and not start a college fund for my dd and pray she get straight A's for a scholarship. or i can hope she'll be an average student and hope a community college will be adequate for her educational aspirations.

it took me a very long time to find a secure job that i was happy with. it's a public school job, so i have summers with my child, short work hours, many vacations, etc. these jobs are nearly impossible to come by. i would be foolish to leave it. and by the way, i am a freakin awesome teacher, with unending patience and love for my students. being a teacher makes me a better parent, and being a parent makes me a better teacher.
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146191 tn?1236881412
thank you for your input. your points are valid and important ones. it is nice to have another teacher respond given the comments made earlier by ponderousmom about teachers who are tired from having busy/demanding home lives. your name says it all - you may very well be tired...but you're happy! and thats how i feel...
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Very well put gilie and tired!  Even though I stay at home I couldn't agree with you more.  
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146191 tn?1236881412
a lot of the points you try tp make to make in your post, i have already diputed in various ways further up on the thread, but i will say this, the world has changed a lot since the time when women didn't have identities of thier own and were only put here to be wives and mothers. if that is how you would like to live your life, thats just fine, but i am my own person. my husband and son love me for the person i am, im not just some empty body who takes care of my children and my husband. we are a family and work together as a team. you're barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen outlook on life is way outdated, but hey, if thats how you feel, more power to you...
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308074 tn?1289690946
I know that that was how people were back in the day, but it is still how we are supposed to be, though socitey has put it through our minds that we shouldnt be like that.  Like I had said before, I also want to work, and get out of the house.  I am trying to be what I am supposed to be.  Everyone just wants the easy way out of things.  But oh well.  Everyone is different, and believes how they want to.
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165078 tn?1255610007
Wow, this was interesting.  Lets just say those who stay home are good mothers and those who work are good mothers.

Nobody is perfect but we can all try right?  

In our home we both work and maybe I do work for selfish reasons.  I want my dd to have everything I can possibly give her in life.  She already has a bigger bank account then me and it is forever growing.  I want her to be able to go to college without the loans.  If that means that she has to spend time with mom mom for 7 hours a day 5 days a week then that is just fine.  If she were in Daycare I may have reconsidered coming back but honestly I dont think so.  I heard the comment about our children would rather have us then big cars and homes and it actually took a minute for me to think about that.  Good Comment but I drive a ford and own a tiny house so what does that mean for me?  It means that our family vacations that I always dreamed about as a child will come true for mine because I am able to save an extra few bucks.  It is not at the cost of my daughter - she is just fine.

If I were a stay at home mom I sure would not be a mom of the 50's cooking and cleaning for my man.  All household duties are shared in our home.  But staying at home is hard, I think it is harder then working full time.  I enjoy my time with the people I work with but now that I am a mom - no more overtime and no more traveling for me.  All of my time is with my daughter.

Good luck mom's - working or not - life is hard but very rewarding!
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"barefoot and pregnant" we agreed way  back when to get over our sayings--did we not??? you have made some great points girly, and i still wish you the best of luck.  but im curious as to why you think sahm are mindless servants--im not picking a fight, and sck is a sahm too and shes trying to say the same thing...i know everyone thinks im wrong for using selfish, but i explained my reasoning--im just wanting you to do the same.  i think were learning alot about each others "mothering styles".  maybe if you--in general, not just girly---could explain why you think that--some of us sahm could explain what its really like.  because the work in my house is actually pretty well split, in my opinion.  and i do not do things "to please my man" i do them because i live here, my kids live here, and yes he lives here too, but its my home, i want to take care of it.  no, he doesnt do no where near the amount of laundry i do, but hell wash dishes, he cooks, he fixes the big stuff, its based on respect.  he works 10-12 hrs a day, and i have his dinner ready when he comes home, because he's tired.  he doesnt come home and plop in a chair and make me wait on him--our kids wait for him and bombard them with his day while we eat dinner together.  and they all go off in the other room while i clean up afterwards and play--and i dont mind washing the dishes, its a few minutes of quiet--cuz kids scatter when they hear water running--he helps with baths, homework, whatever- i dont have him get up with anyone because he doesnt need to be anymore tired then he already is--he doesnt sit at work all day, he builds bridge innards, which is hard physical labor not to mention the harm he does to himself or he could possibly kill someone if he screws up.  and he doesnt complain when were having an off day and he might have to eat hot dogs and he might have to pull a clean shirt out of the dryer instead of the drawer.  and yes, i pack him a lunch, but its just common courtesy--why shouldnt i?  
and did you figure out who you have me confused with yet sck???  are there other polygamists out there???lol  if you want me to explain how a big household works, i will, but they definitely dont take care of each other.  its all in schedules and chores and RESPECT.  and i would really like to know what makes you exempt from the sahm stereotype--not picking, but your involved quit a bit in this post--so share.

and i stated repeatedly i wasnt bashing teachers in general--my oldest is in the 6th grade now, and all together between her and the other 2 i have in school, there were only 3 that shouldnt have been there, and thats a small percentage--the last just used to cry all the time when things didnt go her way--its no different then any other profession, they just either arent suited for it, or have too much going on, or whatever, but no parents want their kids in a class with a teacher that cant handle it,---if you can make it work, then do it, if you cant, leave, cuz its not fair to the kids. plain and simple.


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93532 tn?1349374050
I agree on one point, I have no idea why some think a SAHM is a servant that garners little to no respect from others or their spouse, well except for some on here I suppose.

My kids, yes all three, have an education account. While my dh and I were both gifted students, we have high hopes for sending our kids to school. I didn't get a dime to help with my education, I paid for it all myself. I am determined my kids will get a better shot at it than I did. As far as vacations go, my kids don't have fancy dreams for vacations, they enjoy fishing with their Papa, going to the ocean with their Grandma, digging in the dirt in the yard, the kind of things kids enjoy doing. We lucked out that my husband got a job with the government. We have excellent benefits and with his disabled vet status his position is secure.

This debate always turns out this way. Bottom line is you don't know what happens in others lives. I, personally, have chosen to stay home with my kids. I feel that is what is best for them. So far it has worked well for us. I grew up with a working single mom in one household who was so over-stressed she drank heavily and took it out on us. We rarely saw her and when we did we wished we hadn't. On the other side of the coin, my dad and step mom both worked, each making 6 figures and we never saw them either as they were both too involved with their careers to care. Sure, they had a big house, nice cars, and all the frills, but I still had to pay for my own education and my own way in life.

Shades of gray.

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201326 tn?1234208291
I swore i wasn't going to write any more on this but i can't help myself. To ponderousmom- it's not that decogirl and I and some other moms are preparing for the worst. Nothing is 100% guaranteed. And women or men should have a back up plan. If you are completely dependent on your dh and something does go wrong whether it's divorce or a disability you should be able to take care of your children. Whether you are working or have the education to make a decent living. I work 3 overnights and get full time health insurance. I pay nothing for doc app. and copays, my prescriptions are free, my dental is free, and if my kids need braces they are free. It's impossible for me to stay at home! I still rent, i don't have a lot of extras, i don't have a fancy car. But my kids are very loved, very well taken care of by their father and myself. And if something were to happen I can support my children.
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I dont understand your questions you have for me ponderousmom.  Did I say SAHM are mindless servants?  Never.  Who do I have you confused with? Are there other polygimists besides you?...What exempts me from SAHM stereotype?  What do you mean?  Did I say that?  Nope, I didnt say that either...I cant remember the last time I posted on this thread!

I'm soooooooo over this...frankly this thread is getting old...it's the same thing back and forth.  I'm bored with it.
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308074 tn?1289690946
I am very sorry for posting what I did.  I know it is not my place to be telling people what is right and wrong.  People are on here  for help, not for lectures.  Again, I am very sorry, and I hope you all that I have offended can find it in your heart to forgive me.

God bless you all, and I know, no matter what your occupation, homemaker, or an actual outside of the home job, you are all wonderful mothers.

Potts20
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146191 tn?1236881412
my comment re: "barefoot and pregnant" was directed at potts20, specifically for her comment "A womens place is at home, taking care of the children, and house work, and helping with your husband.  Your husband is to work, and provide for his family." potts20 has already acknowledged that it is the way she chooses to live her life and that she is not suggesting it is the way everyone "should" live. from your last post, it seems as though many things about our home lives are similar and that things that are different are that way simply because everyone is different, in one way or another. it seems as though we all have opinions on the subject and they way we choose to live our lives, and as Andi said also, everyone is different. my way isnt the right way and neither is yours or anyone elses. we choose our own paths in life. people just need to stop putting down those who choose to do things differently and this probably would have never continued on as long as it did. i wish you all well in your endeavors and in life in general. we are all bright, educated, intelligent women and im sure we will all raise wonderful children, no matter how we choose to go about it.
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