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Roe vs Wade
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176741_tn?1295237589
I thought I knew what I would be stepping in when I clicked on this after 150 posts.  For the most part, I don't give two hoots what's being said here.  I've learned to let go of much of the liberal hype here, secure in my own beliefs.  But I CAN'T STAND the anti-Palin movement in our country.  "Palin is scary" was posted here.  What?  Is she wearing a Halloween mask?  I'm very proud of her, just as I'm proud of Hillary for running a strong, though ultimately unsuccessful, campaign.  I would never vote for Hillary  because I don't agree with her politics, but I sure as h*** don't come here and bash her.

I know of a family that aborted their fourth baby because they wanted a girl, not the fourth boy they had conceived.  The fourth baby, a girl, was born with Down's Syndrome.  Now that's karma on the part of the parents.  And one very good reminder to myself why I don't universally support abortion 'rights.'  
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152852_tn?1205717026
So how many unwanted, neglected, and/or abused children have you adopted?  You didn't specify.  After all, it's not just the perfect newborns who need to be loved--their mothers all did the right thing by having them, so if you commend that, adopt some older unwanted and unloved kids in foster care.

Regarding Palin--people are entitled to their opinions.  Mine of her isn't positive.  No way do I see her as Presidential.  But if you do, good for you.  And when you put yourself out there as a candidate, you open yourself to scrutiny.  I think she's been treated pretty decently, compared to others.
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Avatar_f_tn
The dumb comment that I was writing about wasn't directed towards anyone. It was just a comment that I have heard many times usually from young girls. I'm sorry if you took it personal. I always take the time to educate these girls about adoption. Some have made that choice. I have helped pick out adoptive parents and I was there when my great neice was born and given to the adoptive parents.

A girl contacted me the other day through a friend and she will be placing her infant if the paternity test shows that the family that is caring for this baby now isn't the biological family. This family only wants this baby if it belongs to their son. She wants me to help her through the adoption process and I will. I will help her in anyway that I can and I don't even know her.

By the way, we have adopted 5 children, 4 that came from foster care and one was a private adoption. I do not deserve a medal because of this, we did it because it is what we wanted to do. These children have opened our eyes even further to many things that go on in the world. The 4 from foster care (2 girls from one family and 2 boys from another) should never have been allowed to go home with their biological parents due to their past mistakes (one family had murdered another sibling) with other children. We were foster parents for 10 years. I have helped many parents in need with young children, sometimes grandchildren. I could go on and on about things that I have done but I do not feel that gives me anymore right than anyone else to stand up for my beliefs. We all have the right to stand up for what we believe in. That even means pro abortion people.

Not all people are cut out to be foster parents but there are many other ways to help in this world that are just as important. When you see a child in need and you can help them, please do. Some children just need someone that they can confide in, others have financial needs (clothing and food). If we all reach out to these children, we can help this world, one child at a time.

My son that has the most special needs loves to wave and say hi to everyone. You would not believe how many adults look at him like, who is this kid? So many people walk around in their perfect world unaware of others needs. Children are the most accepting of him unless their parents influence them other wise.

It doesn't matter if people are pro life, pro abortion, or pro don't really care. We can all still help the children that are born into this world in need. Everyone has something to offer. Maybe you can read, sew, cook, listen,  fix a bike, make others laugh, donate money or time. It all matters, it is all important. We all have gifts that we are born with and we can share them to help others. We all need to leave our mark on the world in a postive way. Even writing on here helps others. Keep up the good work.
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152852_tn?1205717026
I didn't take your comments personally in the slightest.

I commend you on all you do and have done!  I know you don't want a medal, but you are really doing amazing things.

It sadly seems that many people who are against abortion view giving a baby up for adoption in simplistic terms--"just have the baby and give it up for adoption".  And of course a healthy newborn will be adopted immediately, but that's not always how it works...mothers try, but many can't do it and then there are older kids in the foster care system who stay there and are never adopted.  I really do commend you for all you have done and continue to do.

I do understand that everyone isn't cut out for it, but I would imagine that if you are REALLY passionate about choosing life, you would be passionate enough to at least try to do what you do--or DO something.  Something more than simply arguing about it.  

I have worked (and lived) with unwanted kids and young adults, too.  I agree that we should all do whatever we can.
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176741_tn?1295237589
Actually, FYI, we are looking at adopting an older minority child.  So put that in your pipe...
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176741_tn?1295237589
And never have I said people are not entitled to their opinion.  I think I specifically mentioned "bashing."  If you have an intelligent comment with intelligent reasoning to support it, by all means share if you so choose.

You say Palin has been treated decently compared to others...MY WHOLE POINT!  No need to treat ANY of them, regardless of party, indecently!!!!!!   But if you do, good for you.
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152852_tn?1205717026
Sorry it's taken so long to get back to you--I've been out canvassing for Obama all day.

What a wonderful thing you are doing!  I commend you!
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535822_tn?1413656274
Whew!!   I just got to the bottom of this thread, and you say that MH took some of it out! well I enjoyed reading every moment of it ,and shame on MH as I thought that is what this all about, it really made me think and to tell you the truth isnt that what we all want, keep going Guys I have enjoyed reading the whole thread, (or was it the whole thread/)Good stuff.
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Avatar_f_tn
I know that I don't agree with abortion as a form of birth control. I feel if you created a life and it is inconvenient for you to have it then put it up for adoption and give that life a chance to maybe beome president someday. You never know the baby you may not destroy may become someone like Oprah who has helped millions. You could be snuffing out the one that could cure cancer or aides. It shouldn't be your choice. I can't judge those who are raped though.... it is not for me to decide that. And we all can stand on our soap box spouting off our views until it happens to us personally. My mother in law shared with me that she prayed for her daughter's preemie to die because of all the problems that baby would have someday. That baby is a mother of two today with a wonderful husband and  a wonderful life and my niece is somebody that I hope my daughter ends up to be like.
There is a form of abortion that is happening currently that is in later term abortions. It involves just letting the baby die if it doesn't die in the procedure. I heard an interview of a nurse who worked for a hospital that practices that procedure. She said that it took one baby an entire 12 hour shift to finally die in her arms. It was the saddest thing I ever heard. That baby at least had someone to hold it as it died. How many just die in whatever they put it in? Even Hillary Clinton voted against it! Obama voted FOR it not once but 3 times. Before I decide on my vote I would love to hear his reasoning on his vote for that barbarrack practice!
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203342_tn?1328740807
I wrote about that procedure in one of my journal's on here. You can go look at it by clicking on my name, going to my profile and looking under my journals. It's entitled BAIPA (Born Alive Infant Protection Act). It's called induced labor abortion and it's horrible. There does need to be something done to stop this procedure. That one and the late term abortion where a mother can have an abortion all the way up in to her 8th or 9th month.
If you look back on here you will see that I talked about how I was born in the 7th month. My mom was encouraged to abort me because she had such difficult pregnancies with her other two. I went into fetal distress at 7 months and they had to quickly get me out. The doctors said I probably wouldn't live and if I did I would be mentally retarded (because of some lack of oxygen) or would never walk. Well, God decided differently. I am here today walking and talking just fine. I finished high school and business school with honors and am now a CNA, wife and mother of three beautiful children.
I don't think we give God enough credit. We always try to take things into our own hands. And usually make a mess of things when we do! But God has given us all free will to do what we want. It doesn't mean we won't be held accountable for how we acted here on earth some day. But yes, we can do whatever we want even if it means destroying our own life or someone else's. That's what free will is all about.  
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152852_tn?1205717026
The bills that Obama voted against did not have a provision to protect the health of the mother.  As much as Republicans want to claim that he is "pro-abortion", he is NOT.  No one is pro-abortion.  I've never met a person who wants women to abort.

Go to the "Catholics United" website and check out their "Pro-life Means All Life" poster.  Here's a quote from the site about it:
"...We've seen this before. Although some of the groups that push this message are operating under a heartfelt desire to help the unborn, all-too-often this single-issue approach to values voting is designed to strongarm people of faith into voting for candidates who do not share our values. Candidates who believe in unjust and preemptive war, candidates who believe healthcare is a privilege for the most fortunate. Candidates who support torture and promote economic policies that place the wants of the few ahead of the needs of the many."

Overturning Roe V Wade will do nothing to prevent abortion--it will put the legislation into the hands of individual states and only a couple of states will actually attempt to make it illegal.  Then what?  A woman in that state who is raped or whose teenage daughter was impregnated by a relative go to another state for an abortion?  Then what?  They get caught and go to prison for murder?  Perhaps get the death penalty?

This is simply an attempt to get votes.  If you feel passionate about preventing abortion, get personally involved in a loving and compassionate way--counsel women who are scared and confused.  Don't yell "murderer" to young women feeling desperate at abortion clinics (or people who are for choice)--don't vote for the candidate who least considers the question, "What Would Jesus Do?"

From the Jesus Was a Liberal website:  "...Jesus rejected greed, violence, the glorification of power, the amassing of wealth without social balance, and the personal judging of others, their lifestyles and beliefs..."

Using this issue--abortion--and inciting people to the point of causing divisiveness and manipulating them to vote for you when you have no say in the matter (even if you really are a candidate wanting to make abortion illegal in all 50 states) is simply and unequivocally evil.
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Avatar_f_tn
I will never vote for a candidate who believes that abortions should be legal, and that is my belief, and it is not going to be changed by ANYONE.  PERIOD.
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152852_tn?1205717026
Good for you.
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152852_tn?1205717026
That wasn't meant to be rude, btw.  I truly meant good for you--good for you for having strong convictions.
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152852_tn?1205717026
Oh, one more thing--if you would never vote for someone who thinks abortion should be legal then it looks like you should stay home on election day.  McCain is ok with abortion if it involves rape, incest, or the mother's life is in danger.  Oh, yeah...no proof required where rape is concerned, so what is to stop anyone who wants an abortion to make that claim?  And who's going to determine whether or not a mother's life is TRULY in danger?  Earlier posts here claim that you can be diagnosed with late-stage cancer and still carrry a baby to term.  So who has the final word on that one?  And most people here who don't think there should be any exceptions certainly don't buy the rape argument--the baby is innocent.

So it looks like there should be a lot of folks staying home on Election Day.
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171768_tn?1324233699
I wish i had time to read everyone's opinions- i only got 1/4 of the way through, and have to get going. rather than get in to the moral aspects of the debate I would like to throw a practical thought out there-

The government does not provide for sufficient maternity leave women. If the government were to mandate that women have these unwanted babies, they would either need to provide a significant maternity leave so that the mother can afford to have the child and stay home for a couple months at least, and then the government would need to provide money to provide childcare for all of these children whose mothers need to get back to work.

My pregnancy was planned and a blessing. I stayed home 4 months and was not paid the entire time. we were able to plan in advance and save so that i could do that. I would have loved to stay home longer. it was not an option. If my pregnancy were unplanned, i might have been able to even afford the 6 weeks necessary for recovery. So, all moral objections aside, let's look at the practical aspects of the situation. Can the governement afford to pay maternity leave? Ideally, it should be extended. But there are no federal laws that even call for short term paid maternity leave (that's up to the states, and very few have it. those that do, it doesn't cover much). Can the government afford to foot the bill for quality childcare for all of these additional children? How many more women will be going on assistance because they lose their jobs? A lot of these girls getting pregnant don't have insurance. Can the government continue to foot that bill if the number of women on assistance increases dramatically?

I can see why people would be pro-life. Especially now that I have a baby.  I would never take advantage of that choice, but i am prochoice. The government should not be taking such invasive moral stances if it cannot sufficiently accomodate the outcomes.
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Avatar_f_tn
Gesh!  I am truly done trying to understand how people can take the life of a baby soo easily.  My mom was dirt poor with ALL 5 of her kids... everyone around us is pretty much dirt poor right now.... anyone been to the grocery store lately and seen the price of food??  The price of clothing?  The price of gas?  Even though the price of oil went down $20 a barrel... no one is moving on their prices here because Americans are STINGY.  

Thank God my mother did not abort me because she did not "plan" me.  She worked through her entire pregnancy, and after our births.    
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Avatar_f_tn
God does whisper!

We read Jeremiah 1:5 tonight at our Revival.  Hearing that young Pastor read those words brought tears to my eyes.  
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Avatar_f_tn
You know, there probably will be an increase in abortion over the next year because of the way the economy is going.  :(
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Avatar_f_tn
BabyH - You have a right to believe whatever you want to believe just accept that other people will have views different than you. I have respect for anti-abortionist except when it comes to rape and incest.
I honestly cannot grasp their logic on that one but I can see their logic other things  But I accept that there are people with different views than me and I am happy that we live in a country where we can believe what we want.

If, God forbid, your daughter is raped or is a victim or incest, I hope that you will help her get a safe abortion.  I am sure you would never want your daughter to have to go through a pregnancy after such a traumatic event.

I also hope you teach her about birth control.  Something that you should have been taught before getting pregnant by a guy who already had children from 2 different women that we know of.  There could be more.  And a guy who puts you second in almost every situation.  Your life is truly sad to me.  Why haven't you gotten married yet?  Where is your ring?  You call him your fiance just like I could call my boyfriend my fiance.  Until you get a ring and set a date. he's just your baby-daddy.  Get help BabyHardiman.  Get help.


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203342_tn?1328740807
I've already talked with my 16 year old daughter about this stuff. She's already said she'd keep the baby no matter what. She believes strongly against abortion. It's very upsetting to her. She says "Why should a baby have to suffer? It isn't it's fault." I'm very proud of my daughter. She's very mature for her age. I know I would support her no matter what. She's already gone through a lot and pulled through. She's a strong girl.

And Mayflowers, you need to stop the insults or they will pull this thread just like they pulled the last one. I know I'm getting tired of it and I imagine everyone else is too. There's no reason for you to make personal attacks like you keep doing. I just don't understand it. You can state your point without constantly making these jabs at BabyHardiman. If you don't like her, fine. You can still be polite. That's all I'm saying. Please stop the personal attacks and insults. Thank you.
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Avatar_f_tn
Let her keep going April2.  People are already used to her and her insults.

She keeps insulting me for becoming pregnant with my daughter.  People can go see my beautiful little girl on my profile, she how healthy she is, she how happy we are.  For her to say that I never should have gotten pregnant by a man who already has children from 2 different women is basically saying that my daughter should have never been born.  Shame on her for thinking that.  

I love my "baby-daddy" very much, he's a great man.  You make time sacrifices when you become a parent, that's the way life goes, it is a learning process.  I have stopped complaining about being second in his life, because you know what, he's become second too.  My daughter comes FIRST, and he is OK with that.

April, she can not hurt me.  It makes her feel good to insult me, and to make mean remarks about my baby.  If it gives her peace in her heart let her continue to make jabs at me.  If saying that my daughter was a mistake is really how she feels about my innocent little baby, let her continue to feel that way.  She has a right to her opinions.
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203342_tn?1328740807
No, it's not ok and it's against the rules. MH will wind up pulling this thread like they did the last one. I just hate fighting and meanness, I really do. It's just wrong.
What is the deal, anyway? Why is she so hostile to you all of a sudden? Did you run over her cat or something? Good grief, lol.
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Avatar_f_tn
I guess she is tired of hearing me go on and on about saving the lives of babies.

I sent her a PM asking her to stop, hopefully she will.
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203342_tn?1328740807
So, every baby conceived out of wedlock shouldn't be kept? Interesting. Then I wouldn't have had my wonderful, favorite aunt. I'm sure glad my grandmother didn't think of abortion! In her day they did the right thing and got married. They had two more daughters (my mom included) and were happily married for many years before my grandpa got sick and died.
Rape and incest keeps being brought up. Let's be real. Most abortions is about inconvenience.
No one is perfect, not one. We all just do the best we can do. No one has the right to judge you for having your baby. I wouldn't judge someone for having an abortion, either. I would have compassion on them, comfort them (if needed) and be that shoulder for them to cry on. It's not up to us to judge, only God. We will be judged in the same we we are judging others. There's not a single person on here who's life is so perfect that they can look down on you or anyone, for that matter. We all need to try and understand one another and support one another, not tear each other down.

By the way, be careful that you spend quality time with your fiance. You need one on one time with each other to have a healthy relationship. I know it's hard when the baby is so young but it's important that you guys make that effort.
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Avatar_f_tn
I just have to laugh at the "where is your ring" remark.  We have a very gorgeous silver family Crest set.  He's already wearing his on his left hand.  Zoom in on my photos and check it out.  He was just too cheap to buy me the 2 K diamond platinum band set that I picked out.  So I had to settle for the cheap silver band.  Darn it.

And I am sorry I forgot to send you an invitation.
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203342_tn?1328740807
When are you guys getting married?
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Avatar_f_tn
We have our time too.  It is a balancing act.  Usually our time is spent when we put little bit to bed.  I am not comfortable letting her stay with anyone right now.  There have been many times he's asked me to go to a movie, or just out somewhere alone, but I have anxiety sometimes just thinking of leaving her with someone.  It's terrible.  It's worse if I've heard a SIDS story.  :(

I better get over it before I finally get that job I've been waiting on!
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203342_tn?1328740807
Yeah, I can understand that but you guys still need some alone time. Do you not have a grandma or some other relative you could trust to watch her for a few hours while you guys go out to eat or something? That's the nice thing about cell phones too! You an always check up on her whenever you want!

Do you guys have a date yet for a wedding? Don't forget, you will need someone you can trust to watch her while you go on your honeymoon! :)
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Avatar_f_tn
His parents are Jehovahs witness so we will not be getting married in a church.  We did buy my moms land, and we are working to get the pond cleaned up, and the land timbered.  Of course work is at a stand-still right now because he is still in Texas working.  We are taking our time getting things in place.  We are in no rush, so we have set the date for April of next year, Ava will be 1!!!!  :)  I can't wait to see her walking around in her little gown, all dolled up with flowers in her hair (hopefully she will have LOTS of little curls by then!) and carrying around her little flower basket.  

I would have preferred a fall wedding, but spring will be just as cool.

I really do not want an actual honeymoon.  I think the money that it will cost will be better spent somewhere else.  A couple of days in the Mountains, with the kids, will be just fine with me.  His parents and my mom will most likely go with us.  We'll make it a family thing.  :)  

Of course this may change.  Sometimes I'd like to have him to myself, but vacations are few and far between with us because we sink a lot of money into our home.  It is important to create memories with the kiddy pops too.  I felt terrible after I made such a big deal out of the kids going with us on the lake trip for my birthday.  We had a good time, I was uptight for nothing.  
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203342_tn?1328740807
No, where did you find it? Is it a real movie?
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568659_tn?1256143582
I am trying to find where I can see this movie, I think it is real. If anyone finds it let me know.
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Avatar_f_tn
Yuck i just read about it from that sight. I have never heard of it either but
that story is absolutely foul. I dont think that women should be made famous just because her abortion didnt turn out as nicely as 'the brochure said it would'. .I get that it was a terrible way for it to happen, for her, but i cant honestly believe that a needle in the heart could have been any less traumatic for the baby. As much as they play the violin and show the picture of the perfect little baby boy it should not deter from the fact that SHE wanted to kill him. She obviously, as no doubt any person with a soul would, saw the baby and immediately regretted it. Whether he was alive or dead this would have happened but this way she has someone to blame for the whole experience. I think she should be ashamed of herself primarily and yes disgusted at the behavious of the staff but not to the extent that she should exploit this experience (that SHE innitiated) and prosper from it.
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599170_tn?1300977493
Ladies are we forgetting to respect each others opinions we are all intelligent enough to know that we are unlikely to sway others opinions on this issue, I was trying to help us to understand the way others think not necessary to agree with all.Its a confusing and contraversial topic, but name calling and slanders gonna get this thread pulled. As for the crack about wedding rings- there are alot of happily married people who don't wear wedding rings, its only a symbolic piece of jewelry. As for people having children outside of marriage who are we to judge. ??? let he who is with out sin cast the first stone.
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Avatar_m_tn
Can you please invite mayflowers back?  Now shes haunting my threads on domestic violence.  :^(
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535822_tn?1413656274
I have spent more than an hour reading this thread and to all the participents , thank you, it has at times when I was reading,  made me feel sad but also heartened and enlightened me,it answered my question of who I was going to vote for,you did me a favor apart from giving me some therapy I should have had many moons ago.
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599170_tn?1300977493
thanks Margy, thats exactly what my goal was to enlighten and to stress how important this issue is politically, I learned alot too, someviews was 100% against mine but I reaaly respect all opinions and thsi really did bring out a lot of emotions ranging from one extreme to the other, all and all honestly Im pround of all you ladies cause I kinda expected it might get pulled and here it is close to 200 posts,  very interesting conversations and with that Im done on this one, you all carry on,    Cherie
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535822_tn?1413656274
Please dont pull this thread it has been good to read the opinions of others and thats what we are all about it is the Womens Social Forum ,leave it alone.....Please
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203342_tn?1328740807
Guys, I'm soo sorry. Someone had just sent that to me and I hurriedly looked at it before passing it on. I'm just now seeing how graphic some of it is. I actually don't recommend watching this. I usually screen things better. Please forgive me. I thought they would be talking more about Obama's ruling against abortion, etc. You can go ahead and remove the post or skip over the graphic parts of the video to the end. Again, I'm sorry. I will try to do better before sending something along.
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Avatar_f_tn
OMG - I could not watch but the first part, and then skip to the end.  April, this only makes me MORE happy that I am PRO-LIFE.

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535822_tn?1413656274
I dare not even look at it
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Avatar_f_tn
I would have been responsible and watched the entire viewing, before posting it! I'am pro-life, but would never post something like that!
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203342_tn?1328740807
I know, I know. :( I never do that, either. I probably shouldn't even be on here. I've had very little sleep. I'm sorry now I sent it. Can it be deleted? I'm pro-life too but this was more than I realized it would be.
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Avatar_f_tn
I sure hope so! I can't visit here anymore.

Good Night to the good folks!
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Avatar_f_tn
The video is the REALITY of abortions - that is what really happens to aborted babies.  If ANYONE is questioning what "might" happen, if they view your video you copied, it will undoubtedly answer any questions - you may have just saved an innocent babies life.  
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Avatar_f_tn
April2
I watched the video but I didn't write down the site. Can you please give it to me again so I can show it to someone?

BabyHardiman
I strongly agree with you even though it made me cry to watch it. I don't think it would help anyone post abortion but I do think it would help them make an informed choice about having an abortion. Most medical procedures are explained in length, I don't know why the procedures of abortions and the effects afterwards are not shared with women.

To All: Just how much info is shared with women prior to receiving an abortion? I have heard so many women say that they weren't informed about the process of the procedure. Is this true?
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187316_tn?1386360282
I think that everyone has a right to make their own personal choice when it comes to their body. I'm pro-choice and with that being said I personally would never get an abortion... however I can't look down on people who have had one.

When I was 19 and I got pregnant my ex prayed that I would have a miscarriage and kept trying to talk me into an abortion but I couldn't do it because I loved that baby even in its early stages.

A girl I know ended up getting an abortion at 14 weeks. She was using cocaine, ecstasy, and special k when she conceived the baby and and had continued to use for a couple months until she realized she was pregnant. He boyfriend ended up getting pissed off and put a gun to her head (didn't kill her) and she left him. But she couldn't go through the pregnancy. She was worried about delivering a child that had been exposed to drugs, she was worried about being a single mom w/out a job or home. She was also 19 at the time and she made the choice to have an abortion. I can understand what she must have been thinking and feeling and I can't say that I think she is disgusting or disturbed for getting one.

On a side note though I can't stand people who use abortion as a type of BC. That is just wrong and I think if someone has more then one abortion that they shouldn't be allowed to get another unless its because of rape or is life threatening to the baby or mother. Maybe a sort of get out of jail free card.

Also, Plan B isn't a form of abortion. If the egg has already implanted it does nothing whereas if it hasn't implanted then it forces a sort of period on you. I know from experience that Plan B wont kill a baby that is implanted because I took it after unprotected sex and ended up getting pregnant anyways.
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599170_tn?1300977493
Everything you said was very well thought out and I agree with you on all, you wound like an level headed non judgemental person,

I do think anyone considering abortion should have to be counseled as to the procedure, and the alternatives, then wait 72 hrs to think over, then be free to make decision.
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