failed ablation?

[LynnSB]

I am beyond disappointed and depressed.Had my ablation on 9/15,found AV node reentry tacychardia(210bpm). I've continued to have a few skipped beats,rare flurries of brief palps. 2days ago felt my heart beat hard for about 15 beats..every beat hard and fast, as if my heart was in over time. Last night, sitting quietly,felt a skipped beat or two..took my pulse and it was irregular for about 20 seconds..Now, over the years I've had stress tests, countless ekgs and many event monitors.only the last one caught the atrial tachycardia, hence the ablation, finally.  by the way,i had a follow up visit with my cardiologist 4 weeks after ablation & he said my EKG was "perfect" and i had "ambient" PACs that maybe getting in better condition would help.My cardiologist is out of town and the ep doc won't call me back.I'm looking for some reassurance. I'm miserable. more,few, but worrisome palps this a.m.

1. with all my testing,knowing nothing is perfect,how good is the chance some malignant ( as in making me drop dead) rhythm would have been found, especially from the EP study ?

2. could this get better or is it time to face the fact the ablation probably failed?

3.ever seen someone with some runs of fast beats like this get better or is it always a failed ablation?

4. I am also extremely, extremely exhausted.this would scare me except it may just be sleep deprivation from a puppy who wakes me up really early, etc.  If i had heart failure or some kind of damage from the ablation causing this fatigue it would probably have shown up somehow by now(EKG,follow up doc visit,right?)thanks

[Cleveland Clinic]

Lynn,



Im very sorry to hear of your ordeal. I know this whole thing has been quite hard.



1.  Very small.  You rhythms are supraventricular and you've tolerated them well thus far. Your risk 'dropping dead' from this particular rhytm are not significant.



2.  It is common to have irritability in the post procedure period, with increased arrythmias. I would give 6-8 weeks before considering treatment failures. I would also use a holter monitor to confirm event failure.



4.  You should get someone else to walk the dog in the morning.



again im sorry. if you do have a treatment failure, another attempt at ablation may be worthwhile. i would consider a referral to a tertiary care center.



good luck

[glassheart46]

So sorry to hear you are having all of these distressing symptoms.  I, as you know because we have talked before, had my ablation two weeks ago today for AV node reentry.  I am also having some problem such as occasional skips, a few skips that come at the same time that feel more like early beats and I also had a brief speed-up but it did not last more than 1 minute or so.  My pulse is regular but goes up and down in rhythm (72 - 89) and varies from day-to-day.  I spoke with my EP and he has me wearing a loop monitor for the next 28 days.  He states that he thinks my ablation was a success but wants to be sure that there isn't a new arrhythmia that may have now reared its ulgy head which can sometimes happen after an ablation.  I do not think you need to worry about it being fatal.  I do not blame you for feeling this way as I feel the same and am kinda sitting on pins and needles waiting for the other shoe to drop.  EP also said that there is heart irritation for up to eight week post ablation and that this can cause the above symptoms.  He said it was like the old arrhythmia wanting to start up again but has no place to go so then it terminates and like I said, it eventually goes away.  Hope this helps and feel free to post back and talk more.  I will post back.  Ablations (the thought of wires going inside one's heart) is a scarry though and until one experiences these weird heart beats they cannot know how very scarry they can be.  I think the best EP or cardiologist in the world would be one who has had to deal with arrhythmia themselves.  I do not think he or she would be so insensitive then and would pay much closer attention to a person emotional side of this event.

[LynnSB]

Thanks so much for posting. I think I'm about up to that 8 week time and things should have calmed down not gotten worse.



I really don't think anyone will give me another event monitor any time soon..



hopefully, the doc will answer and make me feel better.



hugs,

Lynn

[LynnSB]

>>Some of these tachycardias are not severe enough to warrant ablations and is better controlled with medications that are safe like beta blockers.<



Been there, done that. actually made my palps WORSE but it was all a blessing because when i stopped the beta blockers,despite tapering off, my heart was so "irritable" I had irregular beats 24/7 for a month and finally the atrial tachycardia was caught.



Many years ago, my heart would stay at 200 for hours.. I was basically told I was neurotic and having "panic attacks'. i knew it wasn't so. I learned all by myself to break the fast rate heart by putting my head into cold water and breathing so.. so I'm glad I had the reentry tachycardia focus ablated so i never have to go through the tachycardia getting "stuck" again like that.



But if it took so long to document the atrial tach, i guess i worry that they haven't caught something else dangerous. i try not to worry but it is hard. thanks for your comments.



Lynn

[LynnSB]

>>Some of these tachycardias are not severe enough to warrant ablations and is better controlled with medications that are safe like beta blockers.<



Been there, done that. actually made my palps WORSE but it was all a blessing because when i stopped the beta blockers,despite tapering off, my heart was so "irritable" I had irregular beats 24/7 for a month and finally the atrial tachycardia was caught.



Many years ago, my heart would stay at 200 for hours.. I was basically told I was neurotic and having "panic attacks'. i knew it wasn't so. I learned all by myself to break the fast rate heart by putting my head into cold water and breathing so.. so I'm glad I had the reentry tachycardia focus ablated so i never have to go through the tachycardia getting "stuck" again like that.



But if it took so long to document the atrial tach, i guess i worry that they haven't caught something else dangerous. i try not to worry but it is hard. thanks for your comments.



Lynn

[LynnSB]

( sorry about the double post earlier).



You wrote: I thought your palps only lasted a few minutes or seconds from time to time. I didn't realise your symptoms were this severe, you have every right to be concerned and outright disappointed. I would be also!

Hope you get some answers and the relief and reassurance you so obiviously need.





Yep, for many years, my palps have only lasted a few minutes or seconds with the exception of some lower rate tachycardia around 130 or so for no reason lasting maybe an hour.



My cardiologist says sometimes that happens -- people get the long lasting tachycardia at one age and it disappears at another. But, because they found the reentry source of the tachy, they figured they zapped the cause of my most distressing symptom -- the very fast salvos of fast atrial beats that left me momentarily weak and so scared.. In truth, I haven't had any of that particular since the ablation but when I had the run of fast, HARD heartbeats night before last -- only lasted seconds, but still scary -- I thought.. oh, no, here some kind of tachy comes again.. and then last night i felt some of what felt like possible "bursts" of fast beats again along with skips. my heart felt like a conga drum for a short time.



I was so optimistic, so sure the ablation would be a new start for me. i guess it is not to be... thanks again for your insights and post!



Lynn

[LynnSB]

>>but there has been cases that ablations have cause more distressing and serious arrhythmias than before the ablation,<<



oh, these are certainly less frequent than the bouts before the ablation... but still, at the time they are going on, scary.



I was mostly in my 20s and 30s when I had the racing heart for an hour or more, sometimes daily.. when I was told I was , basically, neurotic and couldn't even get a heart monitor.



I'm close to a decade older than you, not quite.. have great cholesterol, good BP.. I lead a healthy lifestyle EXCEPT for the fear of exercising because of these *&#^%@ palps which I had so hoped and prayed would be gone... at least the scary "salvos" of them.



oh, well.. I'll hush now and wait and see what the kind and learned doc has to say.



L

[Linda123]

Hi there

Lynn, your story is so, so, like mine, infact it could be mine.  I too was having horrendous bouts of various palpitations and an EP study revealed, guess what, an atrial tachycardia nobody thought was there!  

I started having what I now know to be atrial tachycardia when I was 16, my heart would click into another gear and beat at around 230 bpm for a short while and then click back into normal rhythm.  I last had that particular palpitation when I was 24.  I'm now 47 and in the intervening years I have had irregular stuff, pvcs, pacs, nsvt and I very much suspect a-fib.  

My palpitations became unbearable when hitting 40 and entering the menopause.  Going on HRT has dramatically reduced the bouts of palpitations and also the weird feeling that I had in my chest most of the time - even when not palpitating.  

I kept hearing there may be a connection between hormones and palpitations and here's what my cardiologist had to say on this  - "it is quite common for palpitations to get worse at the time of the menopause and it is known that the cells that may start this are very sensitive to hormones such as oestrogen".  So Lynn, if you are that stage in your life this is one thing you might think about.

The other thing I would say is that my cardiologist thinks I may have been born with an accessory pathway and that would explain my teenage episodes and this pathway has turned into something else as I have aged.

My EP study also possibly revealed scar tissue in the right atrium.  The cardiologist who performed my EP study referred me onto another cardiologist and he doesn't seem to be that sure about the scar tissue and gave some other explanation for the a-tachy but I cannot remember what he said.

I haven't as yet had any ablation as my palpitations have gone quiet at the moment (only 6 or 7 extra beats per day) and so I am holding fire.  I do feel sure though that at some point in my life I will be having it done as I know they'll be back.

Lynn, I do know of a lady who had an ablation for a-fib and it took quite a few months for her heart to show any improvement, the lady I speak of was in a-fib for 80% of the time.  Now, however, after an ablation, her a-fib is very much improved and she is able to work again.

I wouldn't get too dispondent, I think like any wound, time will heal it, and in a few weeks you might find things very much better.  

Very best wishes to you, Linda

[pandora9049]

hi,

im 30 y/o f.  i get runs of sinus tachycardia (about 100 - 130 bpm) that last for hours which literally scare me to death.  i am alone most of the time w/ 3 small children and get very distressed over this.  my palps started when I was 20, went away for years, and now have been back since June with a vengeance.  im sure they're going to kill me.  I was curious to know about what u said about putting ur face in cold water to stop the fast heart rate.  what do you do?  just stick your face in cold water??  does it work??  I have beta blockers, but have never taken them (just dont like taking meds) and was just wondering about this.  hope u feel better:)

thanks.

Pan