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Avatar universal

PVC's and/or VENTRICULAR BIGEMINY

I am a 42 year old male, very active.  Recently lost a great deal of weight.  After a very nerve racking 2 weeks, I have been diagnosed with Ventricular Bigeminy or also PVC's.  I have had every test, given what seems to be gallons of blood and am being told that my heart is chemically and physically healthy, but this is just something that I will need to live with.  In this day of medical miracles, etc., I have a hard time thinking that I just have to live with this, but if that is the way it is, so be it.  My question is this, I am wondering if there are any vitamins, etc., that I can take that may help these to not be so bad.  I know I can take Atenolol, but that is a stronger BP med and if would only control, if there is some vitamin or something less harmfull, I would like to try that.  Also, if there is anyone who is reading this that suffers from the same thing, I would love to hear from you as to how you are dealing with these.  I have been given the OK to return to my regular 6 day a week work out schedule and so I do plan on doing that.  I would just appreciate any advice that anyone can give me.
Thank You...RDLOVE
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Avatar universal
Hello,
I've tried for many weeks to post a comment here, but the board has always reached it's limit for the day.  I would like to say that DOCTORS ARE TRAINED TO TREAT SYMPTOMS AND THEY CANNOT AND WILL NOT COMMENT ON VITAMINS AND/OR HERBS OR ANYTHING THAT HASN'T BEEN BLESSED BY THE FDA.  Now with that said, I can tell you that electrolyte balance is EXTREMELY important in preventing and eliminating these PVCs.  A large majority of the population does not get adequate minerals in their food intake, and this can lead to electrolyte inbalance.  Supplementation with minerals (particularly magnesium and potassium) will make a significant difference in reducing, and in some people, eliminating those PVCs.  The reason I know is because I eliminated mine by getting my electrolytes balanced, particularly magnesium.  Start taking a good mineral supplement (liquids absorb quicker), and in the meantime, if you want faster results, get the homeopathic version of the magnesium pellets and put a few under your tongue.  Trust me - IT WORKS!!

You can get these at a local healthfood store.

I want everyone to know that YOU DON'T have to live with those annoying things for the rest of your life.  After being told I had a perfectly functioning heart, there was NO WAY I would accept that answer, and I refuse to take medication (beta blockers) for a "healthy heart".  That's crazy!!!  So I looked for other answers.  And this is what I found.  If you want relief, give it a try.  You'll be pleasantly surprised.

Good luck to everyone !
Helpful - 1
Avatar universal
My cardio handed out a diet and alist of supplements I should take. Fish oil was the first supplement listed. It said to take at least 2,000 mgs aday of a combination of EPA and DHA.The paper he gave me says:

"Fish oil supplementation has been proven to substantially reduce the incidence of death due to cardiovascular disease. Even patients who experience a heart attack are less likey to die if they are taking fish oil supplements. Supplementation with fish oil has also been shown in a number of studies to improve memory and brain function."

He suggested to make sure it is the purest fish oil and then reccomened to get it from Dr. Sears labroratory at 1-800-404-9171 or OmegaPure at 804-453-3830. He also reccomends FLax seed as a plant sourse of Omega 3, He said BUy fresh and grind in coffe grinder.Use 2-4 tablespoons daily mixed with a beverage or sprinkled on food.

He also points out to use a statin medication for lowering cholestrol & states" Statin medication has been shown to decrease inflamation in heart arteries and improves endothelial function, For this reason you are 30% less likely to suffer an acute heart attack while taking these medications."

On supplementation he states "at this time there is no general agreement in the Cardiology community regarding the use of supplements. However I offer the following advise. :

Co-enzyme Q10... This enzyme helps provide energy for every cell in your body. for patients with proven heart desease who are taking statin medications.There is evidence that statin medication lower the level pf CO Q10.For this reason replinshing the enzyme is a wise diciscion, Co Q10 has beeen shown to lower lipoprtein (a), which is a fat in your blood that promotes artherosclerosis.

Folic Acid.. Lowers the homocysteine level in your blood. Second it improves endotheleal function. He sugget taking 800 mg three to five times daily. (or Foltx, a prescription drug)

Vitimine E & C.. He states they are "possibly Helpful" & suggest 400 IU E & 1,000 C daily.

He also suggest a Good multi vitamin containing essential vitamins and minerals such as Dr, Atkins vitamins or the equivalent.

L-Arginine... He suggest taking 2,000 mgs (or 4 pills) three times daily."studies have shown that supplementing with high doese of L-Arginine improves the endothelial function f arteries significantly, with excellent prolonged benefit.

Now all this info came from my CARDIOLOGIST.
not an ad from a healthfood store.....so I am going to try to stick with His diet (& exercise) plan (which is eating lean protien, the RIGHT kind o fats and healthy carbs. Restricting bad crabs (straches and sugars) and the supplements he suggest taking.

Hope this has been helpful info.



Helpful - 1
Avatar universal
"For doctors NOT to prescribe fish oil to heart patients is irresponsible, given the overwhelming evidence that fish oil reduces cardiac mortality by up to 60% in patients."

Easy there, this statement is too strong.  While several studies have shown observational evidence (like that previously used to support hormone therapy for menopausal women) in support of omega-3 fatty acids, the largest trial to date actually showed an increase in arrhtyhmias (51% vs 41% at one year) in patients proned to VT who took fish oil.

I have recommended fish oil to some in the past, but have stopped doing so as a result of this trial.  Time and time again in medicine it is proved to us that observational evidence is not to be trusted.

Check out the AHA 2003 scientific session for more information.  The study involved 2000 people, and was based in Portland.
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Avatar universal
A related discussion, ventricular bigeminy was started.
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Avatar universal
A related discussion, ventricular bigeminy was started.
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Avatar universal
Like some of the other comments I read, my PVCs get worse with any sort of stress (mental or physical) -- ie. overly tired, moving, changing jobs, after excercise.  I have not heard of anyone having chest pains with their PVCs.  My cardiologist once instructed me to sleep with my feet elevated. I did, and had some of the worst pain I ever experienced, that ended gradually after lowering my legs. Anyone else familiar with this symptom?

"I am exhausted with mild exertion, having some shortness of breath when the missed/extra beats are bad, and some chest tightness (the cardiologist knows). I didn't notice anyone else talking about these symptoms-does anyone have them?"

- Yes. I wonder, with you, is it that you are exhausted and then get the PVCs? Do you have so many PVCs that your chest tightens like an overused muscle.  For me, like I said earlier, the PVCs are due to the exhaustion.  My previous doctor was an HMO cardiologist. I moved and am planning to pay the extra money for a more credible specialist where I can feel confident with her (or his) answers. My sister works for peds cardiologist, and she told him about me. He said all dr's who dont have answers tell women they have mitral valve prolapse, even though test show no signs of it. Hopefully the new Cardio will confirm or give me new hope. I am going to try the mineral supplement for the electrolyte balance, suggested by lady zzz.

Thanks to all of your comments - what a great help -- I pray the electrolytes work!
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Avatar universal
Hi all. In 1987 I was hospitalized with bijeminy, rec'd lidocaine IV to stop it. I haven't had any problems since then except the occassional palpitation. A few weeks ago I started having irreg., skipped beats all the time. I just had an DKG and Holter, am having an echo stress on Tuesday, and the cardiologist said I may need some meds...my question is-besides the annoying irregular beats, I am exhausted with mild exertion, having some shortness of breath when the missed/extra beats are bad, and some chest tightness (the cardiologist knows). I didn't notice anyone else talking about these symptoms-does anyone have them? I am off work for another week, but very nervous about returning because of the fatigue/SOB/discomfort more than the ectopic beats. Oh, I'm 46, normal weight, non-smoker, rare drinker. I do have stress in my life, but practice meditation and Yoga which is a great help (just not for the ectopy!)
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Avatar universal
thanks for your info, i have a question for you and anyone else who may come across this. i have a cardio appointment on may 6th with a new cardiologist i have not seen yet, i want to know more about what these are and if i have any need for worry, does anyone know what i can say to bring to his attention what i think may be wrong without telling him how to do his job lol i know that sounds funny but i had a previous doctor who told me i was telling him his job and he dismissed me quickly.
i want to know more about the pvc's if thats what it is why they are here with me and if there are any other problems, but in the past when i say i feel skipped beats i dont get too much of a reaction, i dont know what to ask for does anyone have any suggestions?
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Avatar universal
To "Gweenert".  I know what you are going through believe me.  I had them so bad in the past like almost every other beat was "sipped", that went on for 2 weeks.  Doctor and Cardilogist told me "not to worry" (had EKG done while the heart skipped).  Got beta blockers, but my heart beat dropped down to 30 beats per minute (and that after I cut the pills in half) I had no energy, and the heart still skipped, not as much, but still skipped.  Cardilogist took me off the beta blockers and told me "not to worry" and they would go away.  But I still do worry every time I get them.  Two doctors assured me that I would not drop dead from them no matter how bad I have them, but then I read an article on the Internet that if the skipped beats are to close together for a long time you can develop a fafal arrhythmia.  That scared the hell out of me and I was back on sqare one again.  I then started taking Magnesium pills and they got a lot better.  I found out that when I am under a lot of stress, or extremely tired and fatigue they will come out at full force, and if I worry about each skipped beat it will go down hill. The more I worry about them, the more I will feel the skipping.  I HATE them.  

The best thing would be "not to worry" about them but that is easier  said than done.
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Avatar universal
I am sitting here at this screen and i am crying damned near, for all these years i have been trying to make people believe me that i was skipping heart beats, trying to understand why doctors dont seem so concerned with me when i complain about this, and i see now...i am not the only one, and i am not as bad as most of you, i am sorry that we all feel these things and we live with them everyday, it doesnt seem fair does it? when we tried so hard for years to stay healthy, i heard someone say.
I agree. i dont know most of these big words like begine and bigeminy, and what all these numbers mean, i assure you i will print off these pages and ask my doctor!! but i do feel somewhat relieved. i hate these pvc's i promise you that, and for years i have half wanted to believe i was slightly "crazy" i was thinking it would be better then a heart disease, i almost prayed for it ( lol ) i am refering to the panic attacks and anxiety they tried to tell me i have!! i believe i do have panic and anxiety but with all you sufferers let me ask who doesnt have strong consistent pvc's and not panic every so often?
i have been preaching to my husband, to doctors to my family and my friends who dont understand that what i feel is real, and even though i am not glad othr people have them i am relieved to know that there are some people that do and i am not alone or "crazy" but i need help i need to know more about what is happening to me i have been having them for 6 years, not as often as most of you, but enough to make me miss out on alot of the things i used to enjoy in fear that i will have them, heck i wont even take pain medicine or antibiotics in fear they will triggure them, i dont not drink i never did drugs i do smoke though. i quit caffine completely and thought that would help but it did not sometimes i am afrid i will stop doing everthing i love to try to stop them and realize one day when i am dying that non of it helped anyway. so what i am asking is for some help, understanding more about pvc's why they happen and how to get a doctor to really look into it, ive seen 2 diffrent cardiologists i take lopressor, does anyone have any answers?
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Avatar universal
I am a 42 year old female who developed these PVC's last August. I went to a Cardiologist who tested me from a Holter Moniter, an Echo Cardiogram and a Thallium Stress Test. The diagnosis was PVC's. I had to think; what has caused this? And I believe it was from drinking too much at one sitting or "binge drinking". I smoked a pack a week. I quit smoking completely but I still drink on occassion and yes, probably too much at one sitting. I took Coreg, corvedilol because this Dr. said I had a bit of a "weak heart". I have always been athletic but he believed the alcohol could have damaged the heart muscle. He said alcohol in large quantities is "toxic" to the heart. These PVC's continued not too frequently but enough for me to seek an arrithymia specialist. He said, "75% of the population gets these things, you should not take anything and NO ABLATION is necessary-you are not a candidate! You can take atenolol, it may help but has side effects". The PVC's went away for a few months around Jan/Feb. but are now back with full force keeping me up a night! I also do special events which can be tiresome and stressful. I feel if I don't get enough sleep or drink too much, these things come roaring back. They are so uncomfortable. I bet this will do damage eventually to my heart. I just started taking atenolol last week and feel I need to see my cardiologist again. I was thinking of starting the Magnesium/Potassium therapy lady zzz said or a multi-vitamin. Any comments?
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21064 tn?1309308733
"I feel if I don't get enough sleep or drink too much, these things come roaring back. They are so uncomfortable."

Seems as though you already know the answer. Are you able to quit drinking? get a bit more rest?  Generally, pvcs are benign, but because your doctor stated that you have a "bit of a weak heart" it might be helpful to ask him/her what you can do to help strengthen the muscle.

You are lucky because you know what triggers your pvcs. Good Luck!
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Avatar universal
Hello

I am 35 and 2 weeks ago freeked out Sunday night when my heart kept palping it came out of the blue no reason what so ever, I dont live a stress out life and am a vearly calm person by nature . I did get them years ago but it was only one or two and it happen just once,,but hear I am 2 weeks later stilling palping away,,I have cut all caffine out of my diet and am waiting my test results (montior and eco).  I find that if I am up and around walking around and active i dont either feel them or pay attention but i do get some that stop me in my tracks,,,I ntice that its when i dont get them that I stop and say"hey havent had one in awhile".  Any how I have learned alot from this forum and i thank everyone i dont feel as scared as i was thinking I was going to have a heart attack any day now...
Its just strange how all of sudden this is happing,,,,I was on the Atkins diet for one month before this and I was taking supplements mag+potasuim and fish oil to keep the shakes away from being on low carbs for so long,,,but its weird that the palps happen after i got off the diet and of course quickly regain my 5 pounds that i lost :)
But yes 2 weeks ago today it all started and I really dont know how to deal with this,,but it looks like this board will help me alot,,,,,,,Thank You.  Any response will be apreciated and welcomed.
(p.s. Sorry,,I am a bad speller)

Maria

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Avatar universal
the only tests that i have had done are a holter, event monitor and an echo. another echo on april 6th. every doctor has told me to go ahead and have another baby, one even told me that she see's alot of womens pvc's get better in pregnancy, i know mine wont because i had increased psvt with my son. i just feel like the doctors missed something, i think thats everyones worries with pvc's "maybe mine are caused by something fatal that the doctors missed, maybe mine arnt benign like they say" its my anxiety taking over. why do they tell me to go ahead with pregnancy but wont give me a perscription for birth control pills??? i want to have more babies but i think its safe to say im scared to DEATH to have another, i dont want to do anything that might take me away from the son i have now.
kim
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21064 tn?1309308733
Kim,
Good luck with your echo on the 6th!! Ask your doctor if he/she would sit down and discuss the results with you in person. Ask them if you are any increased risk (after the echo) and trust what the doctor tells you. Hopefully, they will be able to compare your previous echo to this one. That way, they will look for any changes, etc. The new echo may be "just what the doctor ordered."  It may give you the added reassurance that you need. Personally, I think it is most important to have faith and trust the experts.

Good luck!
connie
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Avatar universal
So tell me, if I have PVC's and/or Ventricular Bigeminy, which I do, I am told that alcohol is not good for any heart condition.  Is that true or is it a moderation thing?  I am NOT a heavy drinker, believe me, but I would love a glass of wine now and then or even a nice margarita from time to time.
If there is a doctor in the house, I would love to hear from you.
Thanks...Rick
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Avatar universal
rdlove,
An ablation is done with catheters inserted through the arteries and veins of both groins and in some cases a catheter also inserted in a neck artery into the heart for the purpose of detecting hot spots that are emitting erratic signals that causes disarrhythymias of the heart and are ablated,(burned), to kill those erratic signals with radio frequency power.  This results in scar tissue that is formed as a result of the ablation process and the scar tissue blocks the bad signals that have been 'spilling' into the atria and other areas like a Christmas sparkler.

Armyman,
I think your questions and concern are entirely appropriate on this thread.  I have experienced pvc's since July 1964 and afib since May 1971.  I have taken every kind of medication and tried all kinds of supplements and eating programs includingn distilled water/osmosis water trying to control afib and pvc's throughtout all those years.

I eventually became debilitated with the devilish mess last year espically in May.  From last May and forward, the afib increased in frequency along with pvc's.  Sometimes I would have just afib which was bad, but then I would have episodes of afib and pvc's at the same time and that combination would 'take me down' everytime.  Frequent and urgent urination would start in.  I mean every 4, 5, 6 minutes have to urinate during these episodes as if I hadn't urinated in five or six hours each time I did.  I still don't know why the nerves trigger my bladder to go into overtime.  But it's the pits especially when you are not near a bathroom. These attacks made me feel as if I were dying or at least going to pass out.  Terrible feelings.

Twenty days ago I had a Pulmonary Vein Ablation and have not had afib since.  However, I can't say that about he pvc's yet.  I am still plagued just as much with them with sometimes 5 - 35 - 50 a minute.  Sometimes I have pvc's and I just know I've had a pvc and doesn't bother me. Too many times I have pvc's that are very forceful and give me the anxiety/panic feeling and a few seconds to recover and then another one hits.

I am taking 100 mgs of flecainide twice daily to help prevent afib from returning during the healing process and also 25 mg of atenolol twice a day to help control the pvc's.  I only wish the atenolol would completely control pvc's but it doesn't.  Only helps somewhat. One of the bad side effects of atenolol is extreme fatigue.

The EP that did my ablation is confident that the pvc's will subside during the healing process of the pva.  I certainly hope he is correct.  If they do not subside there is the alternative of another ablation for pvc's. I am trying to have patience during this process.

Most people are fortunate not to have bigeminy and pvc's and only experience afib, which is bad enough, but not as bad and having them all.

Regards,
Glenn Camp

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Avatar universal
I know exactly how you feel, because I had PAC's that bad.

I know that my PAC's varied in intensity from time to time.

If you are highly symptomatic I would try going to an EP.  This is a cardiologist that specializes in arrythmias.  But go to a good one at a large university hospital that has a long track record of doing ablations etc. (See previous post on ablations.)
It took me 9 years to finally receive significant relief, and that was through an ablation.

I know from my experience that my PAC's went up and down due to a number of factors:  the biggest factor was stress.  Stress reducing measures helped me immensely.  Exercise definitely is helpful.  But get a doctor's OK.

If you want to start exercising, you probably need to work at it slowly to build up confidence that you can do it.  Just start with a short 3 to 5 minute jog.   Sometimes we are so anxious about the activity that it becomes a phobia.  One of the ways to deal with phobias is to just try a little and then try more to get over the fear.  I also found that as I exercised my mental ability to deal with the PAC's was better because I didn't feel like they (PAC's) controlled me.

Trust you will feel better soon.

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21064 tn?1309308733
RDLOVE,

The following explains a little about ablations. Check out www.heartcenteronline.  This portion of the articl can be found at: http://www.heartcenteronline.com/myheartdr/common/articles.cfm?Artid=14&startpage=2&#1

"Ablation is a procedure to destroy very small, carefully selected parts of the heart that are causing tachycardia
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Avatar universal
What is ABLATION that everyone talks about?
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Avatar universal
I have PVC's even on the beta blocker. I am 30. I was having bigeminy for about 2 weeks and the beta blocker stopped it.  It however has tapered, but not eliminated the PVC's.  Now it is very nerve wracking because when I have a palpitation, I am ten times more scared, and when I have 3 or 4 in a few second or minute period, I get really panicky, thus starting the cycle.  I don't think I would be a candidate for ablation, but I would do it in a heart beat if it meant I didn't have to live this way.  I hope all is well.
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Avatar universal
Where can I get more information on ablation? Why doesn't everyone get it done?
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21064 tn?1309308733
Kim,

It is so hard for me to remember back to my pre-pregnancy days...lol Prior to my second pregnancy,I was not really aware of any pvcs, etc. During my second pregnancy, my OB INSISTED I see a cardio which I think was when I was diagnosed with pvcs as a symptom of mitral valve prolapse. According to the doctor, not to worry. The first time I REALLY REALLY remember noticing my pvcs was probably after my 3rd pregnancy. I would say for the most part my pvcs became worse AFTER my pregnancies. Pregnancy did not seem to make them worse, but I have seen cardios since my third pregnancy. Somewhere along the line I was diagnosed with mitral regurgitation (which is why they were keeping an eye on me).

My pvcs did not prevent us from having children. When we considered a 4th (I was CRAZY back then..lol), the doctors were a little more concered because of the MVP/MR, but even then they were OK with it (as long as I was checked periodically). Have you discussed your desire to have more children with your doctor? Have you had all the standard cardiac tests? Sounds like pregnancy really brought out your pvcs, or was it the ablation? Are you taking a beta blocker?

Prior to my first ablation, I was a "walking pvc!" 25% of my beats were ectopics...that was exhausting! I can definitely relate to your anxiety. Over the last 5-7 years (late 30's - mid 40's), I noticed a major increase in the number of pvcs. The ablation has been a miracle for me!
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Avatar universal
I know this probably doesn't belong on this thread, however, I have no other way of asking.

I've suffered with SVT since I was about 10 years old.  It would happen maybe once a year, then nothing for a few years, then two or three times in the next year.  Basically it was fairly rare.  Along with SVT I would have PVC's off and on, which would make me think an SVT episode was coming.  

Then I joined the military at 18, although I was nervous about having an episode of SVT during training, I went anyway.  I did not have a single SVT episode in the 3 years I served, nor 2 years after the Army.  The PVC's were extremely rare as well, mostly they would happen after I finished exercising, and my heartrate was coming down.  Wasn't really anything big.  Then for the first time in 5 years, I had a case of SVT while driving to work, my heartrate was nearly 240, which scared the hell out of me.  A week later, it happened again.  In the year since this has happened, although I haven't had another case of SVT, the PVC's seem to happen ALL the time now.  Sometimes 4+ in a row, and about 20-30 a minute for hours.  I haven't had a single day in the past year where I didn't have PVC's.

My question is, why did all these symptoms go from mild, to totally gone, then to worse then before?

I get so nervous anymore, because of the PVC's that I take anxiety pills.  I want to exercise again, thinking that is why it didn't happen in the Army, but because of how often and constant the PVC's are, I'm too afraid to even jog up the street, much less run a few miles.

Once again, sorry this isn't related to the orignal topic of the thread, I just can't seem to get a question on the board in the past 6 months.
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