What Is My Problem?

[Indy52]

I am stumped.  I should be a happy person, but all my life I have been robbed by jealousy.  I am a 52 year old man with a wife and grown kids.  I know from years of counseling that I have low self-esteem, and that I am very introspective.  Every counselor says that I have figured a lot of things out by myself.  My wife helps me see life in perspective.  I get good feedback from her.  My problem is that I get jealous and moody every day (and every minute) when I see certain people getting more attention than I am getting.  When I was a child (age 9 to 13), I was constantly mad at one of my sisters even though she did nothing wrong.  At that time my parents took me to counseling.  It may also be interesting that I was a mute until age 5.  I am the oldest of four children.  The pattern of jealousy has followed me throughout life, through several accounting job changes, and church changes.  In groups I often feel left out.  Right now I get insanely jealous because a certain man seems well liked by church and theater friends, and I keep thinking he acts inappropriately, hugging ladies, giving gifts, etc.  In reality, he is a “little different” but you would probably say he does nothing wrong.  I fantasize a lot about my social life, and I want people to like me, especially women.  Daydreaming is constant with me, and interferes with more productive mental activity.  I’m also hooked on daily TV, mainly sports, news, and weather.  My last counselor suggested that I need to “reinvest emotionally” in my wife, and that turned out to be helpful advice, because a marriage has been patched up.  The need for constant affirmation has been my trademark, and sometimes I don’t trust people when I receive it.  I am unemployed (actually remodeling a rental property), so I don’t want to spend money on counseling.  Also, counselors usually agree that I’m not too badly off, and medication is not necessary.  So is there a name for a problem where a guy easily gets jealous and depressed, and can’t rationalize his way out?

[Roger Gould, M.D.]

I don't know about a label, but I can give you some hints to get you on the right self help track.   Your jealousy and comparison with others, and your sensitivity to others opinion of you, is evidence that you have externalized your internal conflict and can not solve it that way.  Your internal conflict is that you have not yet decided whether you are a worthy, good, and lovable man.  Your own self criticism is extreme, and you probably have many bad labels for yourself when you are down.  Instead of coming to a conclusion by wrestling with yourself about this, you let "others" be the judge by showing attention to you, or not showing attention. It is like shooting dice to see what judgement comes up today.  Take the task inside and decide your worth in your own head.

[veryconcerned123]

Hello Indy.  When I read your post it was as if you were describing me.  Amazing the similarities.  I am 35 and by all means should be very happy, but I am not. I am married with two wonderful small children. I have a good job and make a very good living, but I too am very jealous of others.



It is hard for me to explain, but I feel so pessimistic. When anything at all goes wrong, for example my computer gets a virus, or if we have a water leak or something wrong with the house I will complain that it is just my luck, or make comments to my wife that everything always happens to me. It is kind of like I feel that no matter what I touch it turns to ****. Does that make sense?



Outwardly I am very outgoing and pretty much well liked by others. I have been told by many that I am very funny and have even had a few to tell me that I could make it as a stand up comic. I do try to be funny, but it is mainly as a way to get people to like me.



The jealousy comes around when I know others that have better luck than I do. It may be in the form of getting the house they wanted, the perfect job, or whatever.



I too have an accounting background. Maybe all that bean counting in the past has made me crazy.



I am a middle child. One older sister one younger. All my life I have tried to make everyone else happy at my own expense. I hate to fight, and I will always be the one to make things right b/c I can't take it if anyone, anyone at all, is angry with me. Even if they are plainly wrong, I will still try to make things right. My parents have always favored my younger sister over me. It is very apparent how they treat us. They do love me, but it is just different with her. For example when a distant relative died and we went to the funeral an old friend of my mother's was there and I introduced myself as my mother's son. She told me that she had no idea that my mother even had a son, but that she knew everything about my younger sister. (this was just two years ago)



Just stuff like that. I don't know if that has anything to do with how I am today or not.



Does any of my story sound like how you feel?

[Indy52]

Hello veryconcerned123, Yes, I see something in common in our posts.  And we get too focused on how others perceive us.  You mention the material things while I don't.  But I think the material things are just an extension of getting attention.  If you have the ability to be witty, entertaining, funny, count it as a blessing.  This worry about attention makes me self-centered when I should focus on others' needs.  For the introspective types like me, I think at age 30 we begin to think to ourselves, "So that's why I am the way I am...."  However, the deeper the problem, the deeper one has to mine in order to understand one self.  I don't really know why I am so sensitive, and also so jealous.  I have dabbled in some spiritual activities and it helps, such as letting the things I can't change just stay the same, don't criticize my feelings, and some other Buddhist-like philosophies.  But some things bother me so much that I want to quit associating with people I see every week and find new groups.  But that also seems like a false promise.  It's hard to find the answer or a formula that will restore a daily happiness.  Perhaps I have not really tried.

[Momentum]

hi.  i'm 24 and also rather introverted, and i definitly empathize with you.  i found the MDs response a bit off-putting, so if you did too, don't let it get to you.  i think we're told again and again to simply decide that we're as good as everyone else, or whatever, but it's not a simple decision.  if it were, obviously, we'd have made that decision and would be the life of the party by now.



i was just started taking zoloft for anxiety & depression today, and i'm hoping for some relief from that.  wow, what a promise!  



you mentioned some exploration of buddhist practice.  it seems that the/a central problem for us is desire.  like you, i've always felt that i should be happier with what i have and am, but it's hard.  according to buddhism, that is THE way to happiness -- if we can simply stop craving what we don't have, we find that we have it all.  one of my recurrent fanticies is a 'me' that meditates every morning and is compassionate and at peace with myself.  i've never had the discipline to do it though...in spite of having been told by countless authorities (people who appear to be truly content) that it is the way to change for the better.



i guess for now i'm going with the western cure, a pill, but i suspect that if meaningful change is going to occur, it will be come by walking the path...

[Indy52]

Thank you, Momentum, for your advice.  I like your choice of the word "cravings."  And I'm not too knowledgeable about Bhuddist philosophy, so your posting helps make things clearer.  The doctor's response did not "put me off;" it actually helped me.  I do need to decide internally that I am a good person.  But it bothers me when I suggest to myself that others don't think of me as good.  In this world of celebrities, superstars, heroes, (locally the more talented and acclaimed), I get this complex that I do not measure up as well.  The doctor is right by suggesting that I'm just gambling when I look for others' approval.  Actually I do receive others' approval, sometimes, but I get melancholy when someone doesn't speak to me, something doesn't happen to meet my expectations.  It pays to remember some basic things: Believe internally that you are a good person, don't be bad which will hinder that inner-belief, and don't judge yourself too harshly, remember that grace is not distributed equally to all people (some have more than others - so what), you really don't know other peoples' thoughts, and some people are so different from you that you really have little in common, look for acts of kindness.  Doing the latter reaps benefits, either in small ways or in big ways.  The people-things will take care of themselves, they're unpredictable, don't let it bother you.  I have followed these things in the past, and I've found that my jealousies still follow me.  Last basic thing: I can still live with a thorn in my side.

[Sea Cow]

Hi, I am older than any of you (age 52) and have struggled with depression, anxiety most of my life, and many times have had jealousy of those who have a great social life that comes easily to them.  I found a really good book that teaches the steps of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, have read it, have very consciously tried to apply the steps on a daily basis, and it truly has changed my life.  Learning to focus on OTHERS rather than on myself and to change the self talk that pops in my head expecially in social settings has really helped reduce my self consciousness and allowed me to feel more comfortable around people and be much more accepting and appreciative of what I have to offer.  I can happily say in the past 6 months I have developed the best friendships I have ever had.  I do take antidepressants (Wellbutrin) that helps me, but the change in the way I think has helped the most.  The name of the book is "Feeling Good the new mood therapy"  by David Burns, MD. This is certainly no substitute for getting professional help, but it does help you understand what you do that undermines your self esteem, and gives tips on how to change that. I wish I had read it years ago,I feel happier and more blessed than I ever have, and my life is certainly far from perfect.  I'm hoping it can help you like it helped me.  Good luck, and learn to be your own best friend, none of us will ever be the most popular, but we all have significant contributions and strengths we can learn to appreciate.

[Indy52]

Thank you.  I will try the book.

[hangin'in there!]

You are a smart guy to be so in touch with your feelings, and that will help you a long way. Most guys need therapy just to uncover underlaying feelings of the type you have expressed, just so they can realise why they are behaving in certain ways.



It is very hard to find work at the moment, so don't take being unemployed personally.  Perhaps look at starting your own business instead. I know you need money to do this which is something you don't have but not all business' need be expensive to get into; A laundry service, perhaps, where you pickup/drop off a load of laundry for a client and charge $40 for doing so.  You could get laundrymatts to cut you a deal if you can get them X amount of loads for them per day.  That way you're an agency for example, not actually doing the cleaning for which would incurr alot of costs.  That's an idea for you mate, take it or leave it.



Now, in relation to your jealous feelings I believe I have the answer. You know in yourself that when you were a child certain feelings impacted profoundly on you, but you may not realise that these feelings still have an effect on you today.  You are 52, which means these past hurts have become so intrinsically a part of who you are today.



It is significant that you were mute, and you need to find out why you decided that you were not going to say anything at all in that period. I believe that the formative years of a childs life (0-5) are where the child is most impressionable and forms ideas and thought patterns that then follow them through the rest of their lives. You were mute in your MOST emotionally/psycologically important formative years and watched life happening, deciding not to have an opinion out loud.  That doesn't mean that you were void of thoughts and feelings, though, does it? You have probably established a thought pattern that, like an old habit, is hard to break.  In your particular case it is jealousy etc. but the manifestations can vary depending on the feelings. In that sense, it's true that you have to work through it yourself because the feelings and behavioural manifestations are as unique as a persons formative years. For example you and the other post drew some similarities but also recognised the prsonal differences.



Now these thought patterns I talk about are psycological, and every one has them.  No two people the same.  These thought patterns are very subliminal and they don't happen in the conscious mind (that is, the place where you are aware of your thoughts and feelings). This is why I said from the start that you are very intelligent to be aware of your thoughts and feelings in a way most people require therapy to be.  You CAN be your own counsellor because you are not crazy, and nothing is "wrong" with you except your subliminal thought patterns!



Only you know what hurt you so deeply when you were young and you need to realise that these hurts are not a threat to you now.  It seems like this has occured to you, as I said, you don't seem stupid at all! Just conciously tell yourself that your feelings were valid then, but are inappropriate when they arise unnecessarily now.  In this way, you will 're-train' your thought patterns.  At first it will require much deliberation on your part but if you stick at it you will suceed.  It will become automatic not to drag up inappropriate subliminal feelings when there's no reason for it. You will establish a new subliminal pattern of thought that will definately take the edge of the feelings that have robbed you so much of your quality of life.  Replace those bad old thoughts with new good ones, and concentrate on something that gives you a sense of purpose like starting your own business.



You can do it!!



Hope I've helped (sorry about the length of this post)



Jealousy has it's place in everyones life to greater and lesser extent.

[relief_at_last]

My parallel question to yours (What is my problem?) has always been:  How happy am I entitled to be?  I went through decades of self-searching, drinking and reading, as well as a couple of therapists before finally asking my doctor.



Like a previous post I was reluctant to resort to a medical solution (I am British and this seemed a very American solution) but I must say that the results are astounding.  I was on Effexor for a while but it turned me into a happy eunuch ("I'm impotent but I don't care!") and am now on Wellbutrin.



What I realized was that the constant dread and fear I had always lived with (since being a teenager) was not an acceptable standard.  I am, and we are, all entitled to a greater level of happiness than we feel as depressives. No amount of therapy, conuseling, and wonderful spouses will help.  I have been happily married for 17 years.  I fought this happiness because it didn't fit with my mental state that declared to me that all was ephemeral and dangerous, and that I should make my world accord with this image.  Jealousy was a part of this.



Now I am myself.  It was a chemical imbalance, nothing more, nothing less.  Our bodies and thoughts are a complex series of massive chemical interactions. At this level only medicine can fix us.



Please see your doctor; the solution is so easy, the relief is indescribable.



Sorry for the long post.