Can I drink a beer?

[jphits]

I just finished a 24 week treatment for Hep c,- interferon, ribiviron, amantadine, folic acid.  I have type 2 and the virus has been cleared and I feel great! -as of now.  Normal liver function, etc.  For the last year I have stayed away from drinking anything.  So is it ok to have a beer?  My doctor has really hedged when I ask him.  Any thoughts?

[heart_in_the_keyes]

here's two cents...first penny...kick the habit...grew up with alcoholic co-dependent parents..didn't have a drink until I was 27...but at all the teen allanon (sp?) meetings I've been too and when my kid brothers were going through college and my ex and I were always getting them out of alcohol related predictaments went to many meetings...had several judges and the counselors tell us at almost every turn....what makes an alcoholic is not the amount consumed but the need to consume...meaning, if you have to have that one beer at the end of the day that need is what puts you in the alcoholic status...not the amount you drink.  And here is your second penny... the day they told me I had Hep C and having worked in detox and ER for years...I stopped drinking immediately...and back then, that was a feat itself plus I put done the mj and walked away from both.  I have over the last 20 yrs tipped a few but one good thing about getting older...the 1 glass of wine or 1 beer is like the effect of 10,  You've gone this long without...make a pursuit of taking care of the gift you have been given...many of us would like to be in your shoes.... oh, and ps...over the 20 yrs my viral load has gone extremely high that they have told me I have 30 days to get my affairs in order to going in the opposite direction....then everyone relaxs.....old bad habits come back and your load goes back up there....even without the Hep C it is amazing what the liver can and can not withstand and what it does....why throw alcohol on it?  If you do drink, hydrate with water before and after....you know it is a fact that when people get hangovers it is actually their liver freaking out at what has been thrown at it to process.... and to those of you who have jokingly said this or that doesn't affect the liver....what worlds are you living in?  It certainly isn't reality.  EVERYTHING you put into your body and the environmental elements affect your liver... Someone should really write a Liver Book for Dummies.............

[torpedo205]

It has been a year since my last treatment. I went through a research center here in S.A. Tx. First time they did my blood work my viral count was over a million. One week after treatment with the Peg- intron , Ribavirin and what I cal the Miracle Drug PSI-7977 it went down to 140 and two weeks after it was already undected. I was on this for 6 months always came back undetected. I got my official letter stating that it represents a SVR to treatment; a CURE. I am still negative and not infected with the virus. It took about a year after my last treatment to start feeling great again. Of course the bad thing is I have rhumatoid arthritis so for awhile it was kicking me in the butt. I also asked the doctor if I could have a beer or glass of wine on occasion. I got my hepC from a transfusion I received 28 years ago, had a littlr fat and inflammed liver but that was it. I thought I had lupus cause my hair was falling out and was tired all the time. when they told me what it was I freaked. All these years and that nsty bug was in my liver. stick to ice water and if you want to take a chance go for thebeer. They told me that if I started drinking heavily that the virus could come back. Never have been a drinker so I'd rather die of something else. peace out and good luck.

[Forseegood]

well, maybe the heroin is okay, but the cocaine is known to be a much worse liver toxin then heroin, so maybe just a half dose with the cocaine...meth is definitely out, it causes hair loss and pimples:) ha ha ha ha!!!!!!

[PSP-n-Me]

hahaha  you're a nut girl!!!! thanks for the laugh!
*dippy*

[nygirl7]

Hey girl I have a question:

"is it okay if I could have a nice shot of heroin, maybe a speedball with a little coke kicker???

As far as I know...it doesn't really hurt the liver and God knows I could use the energy.  Seriously - Im thinking of becoming a meth addict just to get through the day.  Do you think it would be ok to start now instead of waiting another3 months? Is that close enough to SVR?

Please advise.
:)

[Isaac Argan]

Wow. Thank God I didn't Ask the Question...

Actually for Someone New to Hepatitis B, its a Valid Question.

All the Posts are Regarding Hepatitis C, What about Hepatitis B.
Say if you are "cleared" or Chronic/Carrier..

What Then.??

I Used to Enjoy a Drink, Dx was Just Late in Acute Infection. Been Drinking While Acute Symptoms.
Obviously Now I'm Teetotal now I know.
However Where do I stand in Say 6-12months Time.
I Do love fine Wine and The rare single malt, What a waste. But I value My Health More!!!

Dou't Shout at me,
It's a Genuine question!! So I dont want to Start a Thread.

[Willy50]

Thanks for the kind words.  I saw this earlier but was working and just got in.  It's a great compliment especially when there are so many great writers here.  I also only want to mention that there is truth and validity in every single post in this thread.

best wishes,
willy

[Forseegood]

just wanted to say, that your "Im A Guy" post was one of the most insightful, and brilliantly worded posts I have ever had the pleasure of reading, you summed up so many issues  (polemics aside) with true wisdom and courtesy. I think this is an emotional and controversial topic for a reason, or reason(s), but you managed to state your views in a way that didn't offend anybody (and that's saying something with this particular topic). Bravo.

[Willy50]

By the way, I happen to like your posts; you can stay.  : )

None of us are doctors.  We are all just offering what we do or offering up our opinions.  In some cases that may have some real value.  Many doctors aren't obsessive enough to do all the research that we do.  Much of what we think we know is very current.  For example, I had to tell my doctor what a Fibrosure Test was.  I had to tell the local hospital what the Vertex trials were about when they called me up to ask if I wanted to go on an Albuferon trial.  Some of you guys have access to world class doctors and I think you can take what they tell you "to the bank".  You'll have to admit that it is not the case for all of us and that seeking on line responses is also a good option to round out our thinking or information.

All that I was trying to do was inject the notion that there is uncertainty in this equation given the information available today.  It's certainly appropriate to post studies; they are the best information we have today.  It's the drawing hard conclusions that I resist.  Sometimes the correct answer is I don't know, or it may not be known.

I've got a friend that's a mechanic.  Sometimes he makes mild fun of some of his customers.  Their criteria for whether to fix the car or not is; "Will it make it to New York?"  LOL.  I don't know if Vishnu or the Buddha knows if the car will make it to New York.  : )  

The question; "Can I drink?" has a similar honest and refreshing simplicity to it.   It's the answer to the question that leaves us feeling a little like my mechanic friend.  Some of the livers will not make it to New York.

Thanks for the rebuttal.

Willy

[jmjm530]

My understanding was that you were booted because you trashed MH publically for a name change of something or another. And you did it more than once.

But yes, you were one of the more vocal ones standing up for me, and I truly did appreciate that. That "***Devil" post of yours is a true classic :)

And you know I appreciated your support  because I conveyed that message to you. And because of that, I do regret even more our recent disagreements which I did not start, because we once were "pals" here.

I can only assume it's because my opinions re Watch N' Wait are hard to swallow when one is treating. Unfortunatly, MH doesn';t have a separate section (like some other boards) where those treating and those thinking about treating have more defined spaces. But this place is what it is.

Anyway, obviously things have changed between the two of us. You have your strong opinions and I have mine. I'll write the rest of the stuff you wrote about me to the ribavirin, but whatever, it doesn't matter. Hopefully, folks here will be able to extract a good mix of points of view from all the name calling nonsense.

-- Jim

[PSP-n-Me]

thank you I would appreciate that - and the reason I was "booted" off in the past was becasue I stuck up for YOU!!! but of course you neglected to mention that

[jmjm530]

First, that wasn't an insult to your doctor. I think my doc is "over the moon" just like you do yours.

As to being "rude and argumentative" anyone who has been here awhile should appreciate how funny that is coming from you. I'm not the one who has been booted off of MedHelp for being rude and argumentative  in the past. You were.

Recently, when you've posted, I've tried to offer some advice in terms of your treatment, but obviously it's not appreciated. Good luck moving foward, I will not post to you again.

-- Jim

[PSP-n-Me]

any Doctor that would say it is okay to drink with liver disease is not one I would ever listen to - And your remark of my "Canadian" Doctor being over the moon was uncalled for and offensive - How arrogant of you!! - Do I say hey Jim Your "American" Doctor is nuts, no I do not - Because that would be rude and argumentative...It has been quite apparent that you try to give EVERYONE on this board advice and in most cases your advice usually contradicts what their Doctor has told them - I remember you when you were treating, you pushed the envelope on all the protocols, most likely drove your Doctor insane and were single handed in scaring the b'jeez outta me with your constant drama of horrific side effects - You have been off tx for over a year now - doncha think it is time to move on with your life - You ARE NOT a Doctor - Do something positive with your life , get a job to start with - or a hobby or a puppy!

And another thing - I see a Cardiologist on a regular basis (ever hear of Lahey Clinic in MA) and Bruce Mirbach my Cardiologist told me anyone with cardiac issues should drink NO MORE than 1 to 2 drinks a week - NOT PER NIGHT - and that applies to those who a healthy heart as well..

You constantly shoot holes in anything I post and it is getting old - Again - I reiterate - YOU'RE NOT A DOCTOR please stop telling people what to do -

[jmjm530]

Willy: Finally....when people ask questions such as as in this thread I think that responders should tend to err on the "safe" side; does that seem reasonable?
----------------
First, thanks for clarifying your sex upfront. I'm also a male, so this can be man-to-man :)

I agree with many of your points and observations. As to responders" err on the 'safe' side', please note that I don't think anyone (including myself) has every suggested anyone drink ANY alcohol. What we have done (in answers to legitimate questions) has been to share what our doctors have told us, shared what we ourselves are doing, and on occasion posted some studies or articles. I think this is appropriate.

As to lack of studies, some have been posted -- both ways -- but the latest I've read, suggests that the earlier studies were flawed because they lumped heavy drinkers and light drinkers together. That study concluded that light drinkers with HCV demonstrate no more liver damage than non-drinkers. Certainly nothing definitive -- studies often aren't -- but that's what it says.

As to the doc, who suggested I drink with dinner, remember he suggested that *I* have a drink with dinner, not you, or anyone one else. I'm someone who is SVR, whose liver seems to be doing quite well, and someone with some signficant cardiac issues.

Be well,

-- Jim

[Willy50]

I thought; "How can this be 90 responses?!?  Let me throw in my 2 cents.

Let me preface my remarks with the fact that I really don't drink but have had a celebratory 4 beers or so since my DX 4+ years ago.  I DO drink coffee and so I scruptuously collect articles which support it's antioxident properties and it's ability to diminish the chance of HCC. (Yes, guys have a higher chance of that; something to do with testosterone)  We all collect the data we want to have on various topics.

Reading about HCV over the few years since DX I have noticed a preponderence of contradictory information about HCV.  I also see lack of information about HCV.  I mean...... yes, there are general studies  but relatively few about the effects of drinking post TX for SVR's or that specifically weigh the health pros (would that be prose in this thread? : )) and cons for people who treated and cured?   Therefore I'd submit that people are speculating a tad on the subject.  They are using a general study to apply to the HCV population.  That may or may not be a sound practice.

I'd also just float out there another "truth" or one as I see it.  We see people who have dramatic lifestyle differences here.  Why do some folks drink and drug and have minor damage where others live "clean" lives and suffer substantial damage?  Why are some folks like MREmeet who treat, clear, and feel great and others suffer long term treatment issues?  Extrapolating the differences onto this thread....... the answer is that we may all experience different results no matter what course we choose; your milage may vary.

Finally....when people ask questions such as as in this thread I think that responders should tend to err on the "safe" side; does that seem reasonable?  To ask how much one can drink in a hepatitiis board almost seems ridiculous.  Any yet it is a very common question.  Do you remember the Woody Allen line from one of his movies?  When he was told as a adolecent that masturbation would make him go blind he responded; "can I do it till I just need glasses?"   One needs to consider when one answers the question; "Can I drink?" the extent of the intent.  IF for some the symptoms and progression of liver damage is silent how does one know specifically when to stop?

Which brings me to the last "final" point;  I think these threads are common because for many of us we are still looking for the "real" or "true" answer for us.  I'd submit that it may not exist and that actually proving it for us may be a ways off.  Until then; we will all try to prove our own hypothesis; either on line or in our lives.  Good luck with it all, but we ARE the data on that upcoming studies (which "proves" as decisively as medical scince can) what will happen to us as a group over the next 5-10 years.  That's something to consider as we make our decisions.

And....don't you ALL look like your high school photos?  : )

best,
Willy

[jmjm530]

Didn't mean to suggest you were a woman. That came out wrong :)

[jmjm530]

Under 20 is very low. Have you considered statin drugs to at least lower your HDL/LDL ratio? Nathan Pritkin posted some older studies of New Guinea natives that suggested that the protective nature of HDL was not needed when LDL was extremely low. This was the case with the New Guinea natives that had low HDL's but also very low LDL's -- probably under 80, not sure.

Don't know how much you weigh, but oft women (because of generally lower bodyweight) are suggested only one drink, while men are suggested two. In any event, our doctors are on the same page. But like yourself, I have a hard time doing the daily drinks with dinner -- also makes me a bit sleepy which sometimes I don't want to be -- so I probably average closer to 1-2 drinks per week. That said, I may buy a case of some good wine this winter and see if I can make it a habit to at least have one good glass of wine with dinner. Outside of alcohol, the only other way to raise HDL I know of are statins (but they don't raise it very much) and exercise.

-- Jim

[desrt]

...and even after 80 some odd posts, that may be oversimplified. I was told (by my primary doc) to have one (not one or two) beer or glass of wine per day post-SVR because, though my LDL was OK (around 100), my HDL was the lowest he'd ever seen (under 20). When I tried it I couldn't hang - felt stupid/lethargic. I've always had a problem with alc, even pre-HBV/HCV. Maybe it was the hep A I had as a kid. Still looking for a non-pharmaceutical way to raise that 'good' cholesterol.

[jmjm530]

If the subject of alcohol's positive effect on the heart is new to you, check out a number of Mike Simon[s recent posts on the subject. It should be in another one of these alkie threads nearby.

[jmjm530]

If the subject of alcohol's positive effect on the heart is new to you, check out a number of Mike Simon[s recent posts on the subject. It should be in another one of these alkie threads nearby.

[jmjm530]

Take a chill pill.

Yes, AFTER SVR my liver specialist suggested I have 1-2 drinks with dinner to enhance my cardiac profile, especially my low HDL.

Currently, my liver is in good shape based on blood tests, scans, and both a mid-treatment and post-treatment Fibroscan -- so  given my cardiac profile -- high LDL, low HDL, Hi Tri's -- plus my families not so terrific cardiac history (heart attack city) -- my main health issue is my heart, not liver.

I know you think your Canadian doc is over the moon, but my doc is right up there -- a major U.S. liverhead who runs many trials. Another equally eminent liver specialist I consulted with said he also has no problem with me drinking in moderation -- although I asked the question, so I can't say he "recommended" it. But the first one did. In fact, what the second doc said was that I shouldn't treat my liver any differently than if I never had Hep C. That doesn't mean to abuse it, because he stated he didn't think anyone should abuse their liver, with alcohol or anything else. But a drink here or there is not abusing it.

I think "RGlass" summed it up very well in his post above where he states the alcohol issue tends to get oversimplified here.

-- Jim

[Lady Lauri]

Are 'chill pill's' okay with hep and tx ???
In a kind, tho it's a thought way...........
                                                                  LL

[Lady Lauri]

Opps.... sorry SIR!  Only been on here a few mths. and still following who's who! With some names your not always sure :}
Guess that means you get a ' 3 pack' instead of a 2 pack:)
                                                                    LL

[PSP-n-Me]

wait a minute - back that bus up Jim - are you saying a Liver Specialist has reccomended you drink?????