Member Comments are provided by individuals and reflect their personal opinions only. Under NO circumstances should you act on any advice or opinion posted in this forum. ALWAYS check with your personal physician before taking any action regarding your health! MedHelp International and our partners, sponsors and affiliates have no obligation to monitor any comments posted on this site, or the content and/or accuracy of such exchanges. MedHelp International does not endorse the views of any user.
Degenerative Diseases Community
This patient support community is for discussions relating to living with degenerative disease.
Can discogenic pain cause muscle pain and atrophy?
by MichelleBedore, Sep 23, 2007 04:51AM
A little over 4 years ago I sustained a lower back injury in a horse accident. I was bucked off and I landed on a hard dirt driveway mostly on my right buttock and somehow also cracked my helmet in half. I had rads taken which showed minor disc compression at L5-S-1, but was told was normal for my age (I'm 43 now). I was rx'd NSAIDS and rest. Since then, I have always had lumbar pain on the right side and continue to this day to take ibuprofen, 600 mg BID. I have several health problems; bipolar 2 disorder, obesity, hypertension, fibromyalgia, and chronic Lofgren's Syndrome (erythema nodosum and polyarthraligia on and off for the last 10+ yrs). I frequently complained of back pain to my primary care physician, and was advised to lose weight to aleviate pain and try to get off the advil. At least twice a year, I would get erythema nodosum, for which prednisone was rx'd.
My occupation as a veterinary technician required quite a bit of physical strength and flexibility, but when I was put on disability a year ago, my back problems worsened significantly from lack of *working*. Finally, 8 mos ago, l was helping push a dresser into place and my back seized/froze. The next morning, lumbar rads were taken which showed DDD. I was unable to progress in physical therapy due to extreme pain; I literally cried! I was on the wait list for an MRI, so while waiting, I was sent to the rheumatology dept and began to treat my fibromyalgia again, this time with flexiril and elavil (and my ibuprofen).
My MRI report said that disc L-5 S-1 was desiccated and also had moderate DDD and end plate degeneration. There is a vascular hemangioma in L-3. My HMO's pain clinic suggests epidural injections to treat my pain, and if that didn't work, a laminectomy would be the next option. I wanted to wait and try alternative tx, so I have been going weekly to a chiropractor for gentle adjustments and stretching, and also spinal massage weekly. The gal that does the massages said I probably had lot of adhesions, because it was very painful the 1st 3 or 4 spinal massages. She works on the lower right lumbar area a lot and said I must have torn muscles in the accident; all the muscles that connect trunk to hip appeared to be painfully atrophied. The paraspinal muscles also spasm if a knuckle is pressed into it or any of the deep muscles in the area. My rheumatologist advised me to tell my chiro to avoid trying to adjust L-5, S-1 as it is too painful, and about to start fusing. The rheumatologist suggested accupuncture for the lumbar pain and believes it beneficial for fibromyalgia patients. I have not tried accupuncture as of yet; wanting to give time to see if chiro and spinal massage was going to work.
I have improved significantly as far as being able to MOVE, yet still suffer muscular pain only on the right side of my lower back. I realized I have probably reached maximum benefit from the chiro office, so I contacted my HMO patient representative to discuss finding out the source of the pain via the "Physical Medicine" dept. I was seen in the physical medicine dept. 2 1/2 weeks ago. The Dr performed movement tests to see my range of motion. She said I should have the epidural, and when I questioned her about my muscles hurting, she said my pain was discogenic. I know that muscles are innervated and that pain can radiate, but when I press those muscles while standing perfectly still, a painful rebound spasm happens instantly--so how can it be neural pain if I take my own finger and depress the muscle instead of say, bending or twisting to make the muscle move? I explained the pain exactly like that and the Dr said she'd be right back. She came back after reading my MRI report and radiology report, again said that my pain was discogenic...she was smiling that polite "you are done, time to go". I thought it strange she had not even LOOKED at or TOUCHED my back, so I asked her to please examine and palpate the muscles so she can see for herself and put it in my chart. She did, and our 10 minutes were up.
Anyway, as you probably can tell by now, I mistrust the HMO for ignoring my complaints of chronic back pain for 3 1/2 years, until it was too late; there is no way to un-dessicate my disc (lol) and I feel that simply injecting steroids into my epidural space will not address the muscles that hurt. Because my chronic Lofgren's Syndrome (a varient of sarcoidosis) I am leery of doing epidurals--what if my body overreacts to the intrusion of a needle into the space, and scar tissue forms around the puncture? I hear all the time how people are worse off after doing invasive things to already damaged spines. I bought a TENS unit and use it frequently on the massage setting and find it really complements the chiro and spinal massages--This is why I believe the majority of my pain to be muscular in origin. The tens unit enabled me to feel ok enough to attempt something I hadn't done in a year--I rode my horse (not the one that bucked me off 4 yrs ago!) I am delighted that I experienced no additional pain.
Currently, meds I take are:
Trileptal (oxcarbazepine) 150 mg bid
Depakote (valproic acid) 500 mg
Cyclobenzaprine HCL (flexiril) 10 mg bid
Lisinopril/HCTZ 10-12.5 mg sid
Amitriptyline (elavil) HCL 25 mg sid
Ibuprofen 600 mg BID
I welcome any insight or comments from others. I am thinking of going outside of my HMO to get another opinion. Sorry my post is so long and involved, but thought giving a full history best. Thanks.
My occupation as a veterinary technician required quite a bit of physical strength and flexibility, but when I was put on disability a year ago, my back problems worsened significantly from lack of *working*. Finally, 8 mos ago, l was helping push a dresser into place and my back seized/froze. The next morning, lumbar rads were taken which showed DDD. I was unable to progress in physical therapy due to extreme pain; I literally cried! I was on the wait list for an MRI, so while waiting, I was sent to the rheumatology dept and began to treat my fibromyalgia again, this time with flexiril and elavil (and my ibuprofen).
My MRI report said that disc L-5 S-1 was desiccated and also had moderate DDD and end plate degeneration. There is a vascular hemangioma in L-3. My HMO's pain clinic suggests epidural injections to treat my pain, and if that didn't work, a laminectomy would be the next option. I wanted to wait and try alternative tx, so I have been going weekly to a chiropractor for gentle adjustments and stretching, and also spinal massage weekly. The gal that does the massages said I probably had lot of adhesions, because it was very painful the 1st 3 or 4 spinal massages. She works on the lower right lumbar area a lot and said I must have torn muscles in the accident; all the muscles that connect trunk to hip appeared to be painfully atrophied. The paraspinal muscles also spasm if a knuckle is pressed into it or any of the deep muscles in the area. My rheumatologist advised me to tell my chiro to avoid trying to adjust L-5, S-1 as it is too painful, and about to start fusing. The rheumatologist suggested accupuncture for the lumbar pain and believes it beneficial for fibromyalgia patients. I have not tried accupuncture as of yet; wanting to give time to see if chiro and spinal massage was going to work.
I have improved significantly as far as being able to MOVE, yet still suffer muscular pain only on the right side of my lower back. I realized I have probably reached maximum benefit from the chiro office, so I contacted my HMO patient representative to discuss finding out the source of the pain via the "Physical Medicine" dept. I was seen in the physical medicine dept. 2 1/2 weeks ago. The Dr performed movement tests to see my range of motion. She said I should have the epidural, and when I questioned her about my muscles hurting, she said my pain was discogenic. I know that muscles are innervated and that pain can radiate, but when I press those muscles while standing perfectly still, a painful rebound spasm happens instantly--so how can it be neural pain if I take my own finger and depress the muscle instead of say, bending or twisting to make the muscle move? I explained the pain exactly like that and the Dr said she'd be right back. She came back after reading my MRI report and radiology report, again said that my pain was discogenic...she was smiling that polite "you are done, time to go". I thought it strange she had not even LOOKED at or TOUCHED my back, so I asked her to please examine and palpate the muscles so she can see for herself and put it in my chart. She did, and our 10 minutes were up.
Anyway, as you probably can tell by now, I mistrust the HMO for ignoring my complaints of chronic back pain for 3 1/2 years, until it was too late; there is no way to un-dessicate my disc (lol) and I feel that simply injecting steroids into my epidural space will not address the muscles that hurt. Because my chronic Lofgren's Syndrome (a varient of sarcoidosis) I am leery of doing epidurals--what if my body overreacts to the intrusion of a needle into the space, and scar tissue forms around the puncture? I hear all the time how people are worse off after doing invasive things to already damaged spines. I bought a TENS unit and use it frequently on the massage setting and find it really complements the chiro and spinal massages--This is why I believe the majority of my pain to be muscular in origin. The tens unit enabled me to feel ok enough to attempt something I hadn't done in a year--I rode my horse (not the one that bucked me off 4 yrs ago!) I am delighted that I experienced no additional pain.
Currently, meds I take are:
Trileptal (oxcarbazepine) 150 mg bid
Depakote (valproic acid) 500 mg
Cyclobenzaprine HCL (flexiril) 10 mg bid
Lisinopril/HCTZ 10-12.5 mg sid
Amitriptyline (elavil) HCL 25 mg sid
Ibuprofen 600 mg BID
I welcome any insight or comments from others. I am thinking of going outside of my HMO to get another opinion. Sorry my post is so long and involved, but thought giving a full history best. Thanks.
Member Comments (1)
by hmndb3, Oct 02, 2007 04:44AM
To: MichelleBedore
I have been dx. with DDD of my Lumbar areas L1-4 and its been 4 years of pain down my right hip,buttocks(burning) and stiffness and pain in my lower back. I really want to keep working as it takes my mind off the pain. I also, take pain medication to go to work. I am on an antidepressent as my children have stated that I am not really that nice to be around before Zoloft. It gives me the energy I need, and no negative thoughts as much, but I really am afraid of my future. Its nice to hear from others. I was actually thrown down on a cement floor with my hands cuffed behind my back after I was arrested for drunk in public. Actually, it was a lobby of a mt. resort hotel where the bar was. I was 53 years old and never was arrested, not even many traffic tickets. I was coming off Paxil as I had gone through a divorce after 29 years of marriage and drank a couple of beers on top of Paxil withdrawal. Anyways, they threw me down because they were unable to take a ring off of my finger, and thought I was resisting when I pulled my hand away. (My ring finger was bruised for days) So, I stopped my fall to the ground with my right knee, which I think jammed my hip up into my lower vertebreas. It has really taken me 4 years to be working full time, but I think its the Zoloft and I am doing more damage to my spine, all the driveing,,,,,,80miles roundtrip. I am on Norco 2-3 tabs a day and also Xanax. I need to get out of Pain..I live everyday wondering,,,,,,whats going to happen. I really like to sleep as my dreams are better than real life.........Thanks for listening
Post Comment
