mother bites 9 year old son

[squirt44890]

my husbands son calles our home and was crying and said his mother bit him he is 9 years old. the reason she bit him is his 7 year old brother and him got into a argument and the 9 yr old bit the 7 yr old the 7 yr old started yelling at his mother about the bite she runs into the room and bites the 9 yr old. after we got the 9 yr olds call my husband called the sheriff and asked them to go over and find out what was going on. the mother tells the sheriff that she did bite him. and the marks went away after an hour. i just want to know if this is considered abuse from the mother?

[April2]

It sounds like she comes from the old school of teaching her kids not to do something by showing them how it feels. I'm not saying this is right, but I've heard of parents doing this before and it seems to make sense to them. If you or your husband have a fairly good relationship with her and feel like you can talk to her calmly, I'd sit down with her and tell her you understand why she did what she did but that it's really not a good idea. She is the parent and needs to set the example and be a good role model for her kids. Try not to come across as threatening to her, but I would explain in a firm voice that this cannot be tolerated. Ask her to find a better way to discipline her kids without leaving mark. There are many things she can do and you can suggest them to her; sending the kids to their rooms for a time out and then letting them come out after 10 minutes to apologize to each other, taking away a privilidge that night like TV, etc. Tell her that you don't mind her disciplining the kids and even expect it when they misbehave, but yelling, hitting, biting, etc. is wrong and can't be tolerated. Try and do this all in a non-threatening way as one concerned parent to another. Tell her you know how overwhelmed she might feel sometimes and that's understandable but to please find better, more positive ways to discipline the boys. Tell her that you know she loves them as you guys do and that you all want what's best for the boys. It may be better for your husband to talk to her alone or with you. I wouldn't try to do it on your own or she'll just get defensive and say it's not your business because it's not your child. Make sure your husband backs you up. Only do this if you feel you all can handle this in a calm, mature fashion. You are all adults. You don't want it to get into an ugly mud slinging or physical fight. Make a plan first on what you guys are going to say and make sure everyone stays in control. Also, do this without the kids being present. They don't need to listen to this. I hope this works. That's what I would do.

[squirt44890]

no he is not on good terms with her he is going for cust. of both boy. because she has no job, meets guys on the internet, lets both boys run wild, has moved 7 times since january 07', she even got kicked out of a homeless shelter. and the 9 yr old that she bit wants to come and live with us. and since the courts have been letting this go on since june. the first pre-hearing she didn't bother to show up the second one was a hearing she was over a hour late. the 3rd hearing they continuided it. because she got a lawyer the day before the hearing. we have tried to help her and the boys we have sent clothes over she throws them away. he has asked her if he could have cust. because she cant handle them. so we dont know what to do when they call crying saying she is biting them or smacking them in the mouths.

[April2]

Keep pressing for custody. Don't give up. These boys are depending on you. You're in my prayers. God bless.

[BRENDA89]

I BELEIVE THIS MOM IS JST TRYNNA TEACH HER BOY WHAT IT FEELS LIKE 2 GET BITTEN. SHE'S NOT RITE BUT THEN AGAIN SHE'S NOT DAT WRONG!

[heartfluttersflyawayplz]

i bit my son when he bit his younger brother he never bit again so it worked and i left teeth marks .

[Curls]

She's nuts to bite him.  At nine though he shouldn't be biting - the problem upbringing is showing.   Good luck getting custody because these kids deserve not to have to deal with this.  Do you have a good attorney to help you make it happen?  If not get one - it's a critical investment at this time.  

Until then work every angle you can.  Offer to give her time alone by taking care of them.  While you have them let them talk about it all so they have at least that - and give them fun times.  Help them figure out how to deal with her and how to keep things like clothes out of her reach.  (I'm sure she snoops.)  Make sure THEY know how and when to call the police and that they tell school officials and others what happening with each hit, such as in the mouth (also not acceptable).  The more it's in the records, the easier it will be to get them.  When they call crying be there for them and tell them you care and it's not okay.  Try not to vent you're own upset at them but each time you support them it makes it easier for them to handle.  If she limits calls, secretly get them cellphones.  If they like to write even a little, get them to keep a journal and write whatever they want to (and help them figure out where to keep it so she never sees it, such as at school.)  If she's not showing up for court then she's not responsible acting, so there's likely openings you can use to be in contact with them.  Have them call if she's off somewhere and if the attorney things it's good - call social services.  If not, use it as a chance to visit with them.  Also, offer to take them to an after school activity regularly...

If you have the money, see if she'll take an allimony increase to give them up (through the attorney).  She might just.  If you acuse her of being a bad mother or not able, she's only going to take it out on you by trying to keep the kids, so walk softly with her.  

Good luck getting them.  I hope you can for all of your sakes.

[Curls]

A few more thoughts....

Since you have limited access, find a guidance counseler or someone at school you can talk to and ask them to let the boys come to them as needed to talk about anything, good or bad (ask the person not to pry, but let it be natural conversation).  And tell the boys they can do that IF they feel comfortable (if it turns out to be a bad person who takes advantage of their vunerablity you want them not to feel pressure to talk wth them and to trust their instincts.)  

For the boys, explain that sometimes grownups are having a hard time themselves and don't do that well at being parents.  Tell them it's not their fault (repeat that as often as needed) and they can't fix it and they aren't responsible for trying to.  Tell them their mom loves them and that's why you can't just take them, but have to go through a neutral person, the judge, so he can figure out what the truth is and what's happening.  Tell them you love them a lot.  Tell them it's okay to feel angry when they feel angry.  That it's not okay to express it by biting or hitting or yelling until it hurts the other person, but it's it's normal and okay to feel angry at things sometimes.  Tell them it's okay to feel sad, and confused, and hurt, and happy.  It won't be obvious to them in their circumstances that this is true.  Tell them you feel angry when you here something has hurt them (but do it gently so it's not you venting your anger in their presencse.)

Start keeping a log yourself of their calls to you, their state of mind when they called, and what they talked about.  

If she already knows, they call and tell you things, then sometime afterward ask to talk to her and ask her "as the adult" what happened without judging.  Do this so you can hear it, log it, know more, and encourage her to feel more open with you, and has a place to vent even if you know it's nonsense complaints.  (If she doesn't know they talk to you then this is a bad idea since it will let on to her and she may stop their calls.)  In general try to befriend her, let her vent to you, share how hard it is to raise kids.  It may 1. give her a release that will take the pressure off and let her be a better parent 2. give you data you wouldn't have otherwise for the courts 3. make her feel more relaxed and cooperative as you go about trying to get the kids.

I can't emphaze enough having a good attorney to help you know what works in the courts and what doesn't.  What seems logical to work, isn't always the case at all, and it's where an attorney's actual experience comes in.

[jo929]

I am of the ole school at least the 9 year old has learned a lesson you bite you get bit back and i just bet that he wont bite anyone else.have you not heard the old expression spare the rod spoil the child.

[Curls]

"have you not heard the old expression spare the rod spoil the child" - which has been used to justify a lot of child abuse, as well as normal child rearing.  

It comes from the same old fashioned place as a tooth for a tooth and an eye for eye.  After eye for eye it the bible passage that comes from continues, a bruise for a bruise and a burn for a burn...which can not be replicated accurately.  It implies that you can't give literally equal punishments for injuries inflicted.   If read in it's entirety it becomes obvious the passage is actually saying punishment should be based on the crime rather than the victim or crimials status in society - a novel concept at the time.

[Curls]

Put into other words...

When a child is taught not to bite with words they learn compassion about not hurting others.  When a child is taught not to bite with biting, they may learn compassion, but more often they learn it's okay to bite when you're more powerful and believe you have a good reason.  They spread that to, it's okay to hit, hurt others with words, or whatever, as long as your powerful enough.  Learning has more to do with imitation, than with instruction.  The same change in behavior in the child doesn't mean the same lesson has been learned.  In this case, if the mother took the child onto her lap and slowly considered and slowly bit him because biting him would teach him a lesson, it would look gross.  I don't play with people who hit me.  I teach the children in my life that to get the to stop hitting, and so I don't hit them either for any reason since I'd be a hippocrite.  Anyway, that's another way to evaluate it.

[jo929]

i have lived along time and sometimes the children will play one parent against the other they enjoy the attention , i have seen this many times. and just maybe since- no teeth marks he may have made it up who knows it could not have hurt to bad if their were no teeth marks.it is sad when children fight their own kin.  have lived around alot of families and you would be surprised wjhen someone told them their kid did so ansoo they said oh no my child would never do that and they were seen doing it some moms say ok i will do something about it thanks for telling me because i do want my children to behave .i also have seen children jump up and down on other peoples furniture and the parents laugh and say they will grow out of it. not at my house i say because i do not allow my own to do things like that why shoul i be forced to put up with yours i paid good hard earned money-for that furniture and i have worked hard and raised 3 kids they were well behaved and did not act like that and i still beleive in the ole way i feel for rhe ones that have no boundries when they get to be a teenager they will say want to go to jail today mom then and there you will wish you had used a little ole fashionin raising your children i have seen that to   lots luck to all that are raising kids . when i say ole fashion i do not mean beat the xxxx out of them they have a bottom use the hand i dont mean slap them or beat them with a belt I love kids but not bullies or one that wont listen to there parents sorry if i stepped on some toes , just wanted to express an opion I also will be getting lots of letters but i do not beleive that 9 and 7 year old should have cell phone if the husband cant talk to the ex it should be brought to court and again some kids do not always tell the truth i would not go behind the ex back he should call and ask if they could have the phones rigtht-now she has the reigns maybe she needs some helpwho knows         the only thing i commented on was their question (is this abuse) i still maintain that is was not abuse just showing the 9  yr old what it felt like and that he wont do it again feeling something and telling a child something does make a difference sometimes  .       sometimes raising 2 kids alone can be a problem try to be friends if you can she may need someone iI do hope you and hubby and ex can work it out      lots luck to you squirt you will need it        

[Curls]

We weren't talking about whether kids need discipline.  Of course they do.  They need to be well behaved, and they need boundries.  What we were talking about was technique.  In my opinion and experience, power-based techniques like hitting (even light hitting) and a "tooth for a tooth" in this case, result in people who are more sensitive to power, than to compassion, as the reason for behavior