Question on Suboxon ?

[ButchH8]

The point of Sub. is to avoid the pain from Opiate withdrawel.  But that should only take 3-6 days depending on level of addiction.  Why should you stay on Sub. for months? To enrich your Doctor? Cant you taper off fairly quickly in the second week.  It is not as addictive as a full Opiate. I am just asking?  I quit Sub. after 3 days because it was making me feel il. Had no withdrawel effects.

[allaboutmary]

I don't know much about subs, but what you are saying makes sence. Although a good taper is a slow one.  Really just wanted to bump your post back to the top so others would reply.  Mary

[HplyEvrAftr]

Hi Butch
Everything you say makes sooo much sense - You were SOOOO smart stopping sub after 3 days - I used it for a 21 day detox after coming off of mdone and lemme tell ya - It is an excellent TOOL!  Just like mdone - If used as a TOOL it is a great drug.

But the Dr's try to put everyone on maintenance with it at HUGE daily doses.  Same with mdone..... It's hard to find a Dr that'll let you take part in a speedy - 21 day or less detox....and that is what is required to NOT suffer WD from the Sub.  

It is MORE addictive and has WORSE WD's than regular opiates - mostly because of the half life - just like mdone. It has a 30+hr half life, so EG if you take 4mg per day - When you take your next 4mg - you still got 2mg lurking - It really builds up after awhile.  Plus I've talked to ppl taking 8-12mg/day - That is BS that the Dr's put them on doses that high.... I took 2mg or less for 3wks and was fine.  It kept WD's totally at bay.....

With it being so new, that may be the reason so many flaws are being made with prescribing this drug - Hopefully as more research becomes available they will offer it as a short term detox tool.

[ButchH8]

Wow..your response is RIGHT ON. I wasn't a super heavy Opiate user. At the end 90-100mg oxy per day.  The doctor put me on 24mg Suboxon and by day two a was a WRECK. But every morning I would wake up feeling good, took my Sub. and begin to feel like s**t. So the 4th morning I decided not take any and see how I do. I felt fine and never looked back.  Let me tell you, it was a pleasure to call the doctor to cancel my $150 weekly check up.  I have full health insurance and he wouldn't take it.

[nogie1717]

I am on a Suboxone regimen for the long term.  The reasons for that are long, but I will tell you a bit about why I will be on for a while.

First, and most importantly, Sub blocks the effects of other opiates.  At this point in time, I don't feel strong enough to be done.  There is still an urge to use and Suboxone blocks any attempt I make at getting high.

I also don't preoccupy myself with pills the way I used to.  Once every three months I see my doctor and he gives me my prescription.  We talk about other things I do to stay clean, AA, and he monitors my blood and urine.  These tests also hold me accountable so that I don't use marijuana, which was another vice of mine.

I am a high school teacher.  I need the stability that Sub gives me in my profession.  I wouldn't be able to be effective if I was high one day and in w/d the next.

I think it is good that you used Sub for a quick detox.  It is a wonderful tool.  In my case, however, I had cleaned up several times, with inpatient rehab, detox, taper, c/t and always fell back into using.
Suboxone has allowed me to avoid relapse and live a normal life.

Each person is different and I think it is unfair to say that doctors only keep people on for the $ involved.  Some probably do, but there are more reasons than money behind the long term use of this drug.

Happily Ever After:  Each individual is different.  Unless you are a doctor, it is very ignorant to assume what each person's dose should be.

[ButchH8]

Thanks for your answer. It was helpful. It emphasizes the diversity of behavior...each of us may have different needs.

[wait2long]

EXCELLENT POST NOGIE!!!!
the easier part is the withdrawals, the hardest part was staying away from my drug of choice and the addictive behaviors and lifestyle that i led for a VERY LONG TIME, not a short term process so neither should my recovery be short term...been through withdrawals too many times, just detoxing wasn't doing it for me. it required me Changing EVERYTHING about my life in order to change my life. stopping ALL addictive behaviors and ending my addictive lifestyle. also going to therapy is a must! learning how to change all these lifelong behaviors and all the tools i didnt have before to stay addiction free. suboxone , therapy and MY hard work has made it possible to literally save my life....

[wait2long]

suboxone was not intended for short term use only...this is a misconception...
if anyone is interested, go to my profile and read the TIP 40 SHEET, a PDF file. anyone who has ever taken sub or is thinking of taking sub, should read this, there is a lot to learn there.

[oxyaddict420]

right on brotha man.. I feel the same way.. We have talked and you know that I am in the same boat as you.. Many many failed attempts.. Many times I got through the worst of the e/d just to relapse. other times weeks and months clean to relapse again and again.. The diversity of epople is amazing, and I happen to need a long term maitanence program for the EXACT REASON NOGIE POSTED!  KEEP THE URGE AWAY-- MAINTAIN A REAL LIFE-- FUNTION ON A DAY TO DAY BASIS!!!   I want all of these thing!!

[ButchH8]

Its amazing how self focused my concepts are. You people have opened my eyes!  I now understand. I guess thats why I asked.

[Magiran]

I AM on the substitol, this is very cool for , cleaning. For people who need long terrapy. For me is the best .

[sassycajun]

How do I get to the Tip 40 sheet you mentioned in your above post?  I would like to read same.  My b/f has been on Suboxone for approximately 15 days and this is a very interesting post because I was having some of the same questions.  The Sub is helping him very much.  His attitude, behavior and life is changing due to the Sub (all for the better), but the cost is killing us.  If he needs and/or should continue the Sub, I am totally for it and will continue to help him deal with the money situation.

[wait2long]

go to my profile, its there, you have to copy and paste the link in your search bar...
if that doesnt work, let me know...

[sassycajun]

I looked on your profile, but there are so many sites to look under, and I do not see the Tip 40 sheet.  Do you know which site it would be under?  Thanks.

[ILoveLukey]

From all of the reading and research I have done so far I am thinking more and more that a lot of the problems stem from doctors not being educated enough before they start putting people on subs. I read that they only have to take one 8 hour class to get certified. I personally have been lucky as mine put me on the right dose to start out. Many people adjust their dosage themselves if it is too much they go down 2 mg. They feel great on a lower dosage.  I have read where people got so low on the taper  that they would cut slivers off with a razor blade. They got their doses so low that they had absolutely no problems getting off the Sub. Quite a few success stories. That’s the plan I am leaning toward.

[ILoveLukey]

I totally agree that Sub must be tapered very very slowly in order  to be successful with no or minimum w/d. I am on Sub and that is my plan as I have read many success stories of people tapering with little to no w/d.......even getting down to slivers with a razor blade.  I do not agree "swapping one drug for another".  Sub has given me the chance to get adjusted to "not chasing the high" anymore. And it is also giving me the chance to try to get my life back together and figure out why I am an addict.  Too many try to get off with too high of a dose. These are the ones that say it does not work. It is too hard to stop at 2 mg. One has to go way lower before stopping completely. I strongly feel that if I stick to my taper regiment and do what the successful people did, I will be fine. I plan to keep up the confidence and optimism.  Certainly , it won't help for me to go thru the next few months being a pessimist, due to horror stories of people jumping off too quickly.  Good luck to me and all who are trying this to get our lives back.

[catchiec]

Butch havn't  heard back from you yet?

[FLaddict]

This is getting ridiculous... Stop instigating debates!!! Can't you agree to disagree?!? Everyone is gonna have different opinions, accept it.  Stop baiting arguments with people that don't share your opinions. Any post that is baiting another member or starting unnecesary arguments with another members will continue to be reported and deleted by the Medhelp staff.