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Hydro w/drawal

Greetings,

A while back I posted (under the name Frank) a request about w/drawing from Hydrocodone. Am currently on 50 mgs. of Hydro a day, 2 codiene #4 a day, and 10 mgs of valium. I have been on the valium for 11 years and never exceeded my dosage. The hydros have gotten away from me.

Qestions (hope this is permissible) WHere is "TOM" his advice below is invaluable and I would like to get more insight from his experiences.

Next - my plan is to w/d over a two month period down to .25 mgs. for a final four day period - will the w/drawals still be so hellish?

Finally, are there any treatment centers that would allow me to do this in confidnetiality and without bringing my family into the equation (please don't lecture me about how I need to deal with my family - I would prefer to handle this on my own. I have a therapist who will help.

Thank you and thanks for this board.

FL
21 Responses
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I am a 37 year old female with crohns disease.. I have been out of remission for the last year..Been on steroids and vicodin for the last year ...I have recently taken myself off all meds due to feeling like I am becoming dependent on them..Today is my fifth day off and feeling like I am getting the old happy me back...Just want to say i feel for any-one who is going through withdrawls and pray for you all......
                                   Terri
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Silence is deafening.
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McGill,

I went back and read your post, it seemed like a flame to me. You note that I suffer from " Valium abuse". I've been perscribed valium for 10 years and never increased my dosage of 5 mgs. bid and I am a 180 pound man. I think I stepped into a spat between you and Spook. I've reade some of Spook's posts and he seems bizarre to me. I don't get the feeling he really wants to help anyone as much as tout his philosophy, whatever that is (go ahead spook, I expect a flame.)

You are correct, I admit hydrocodone abuse and am looking for help - I don't plan nor believe I have a problem with the valium. If I called you a pest, it was inaccurate. My aplolgies.

I am just looking for a board where people can share  problems in a constructive way. I hope this is the place.

Regards FLee.
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How am I the pest?  I wrote a helpful comment for the man.  I get called a pest while So called "Spook" writes things no one needs.
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Thanks sbear, (d chas - look up sagacious in the dictionary.) I will write you.

Take care.



I was a little disappointed in
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I just got out of Detox, where my Doctor listed my in-patient stay at the hospital as OpiddetMuskellator Disorder with multiple Chronic Intestinal Disorders so my Insurance Company Does not know, my work will not know because he put the same information down on my disability paperwork.   Please feel free to contact me my email is ***@**** I will be more than happy to help you with these Doctors who are MD's that specialize in Addiction Medicine (both are recovering addicts too!)

Take care and weaning yourself off is a good Idea, but don't be surprised if you are still sick, this is not just a physical disorder but an emotional and psychological one too!

God Bless you and I hope to hear from you soon,

Sara
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How can you say that my comment about support or counselling is not helpful advice?  Do you not consider yourself an "addict"???
Obviously if "youve done this before" then you obviously have relapsed.  And if you continue to relapse maybe you need to do some self work to make your self stronger.  And believe me, you cant just do it by yourself by gritting your teeth while you look into the mirror.  
Not to be critical, but i think that everyone must confront their addiction and not just forget it and shove it down.  It comes back to bite you.
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Sorry to here about your Psychiatric problem

<a href="http://www.medhelp.org/perl6/MentalHealth/"; target="_new">I think you may get the help you need here</a>.
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The best way to deal with a pest like mcgill is to ignore him - that usually upsets the attention seeking, immature posters.

Tom/ Patrick - So glad to hear from you! I thought your job was going well, sorry you are out of work again. I must tell you that your advice re: detoxing from hydros is one of the best I've read (you posted this quite some time ago and I printed it).

I know I can do it because I have done it before, but DChas said earlier on in the thread;
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Obviously, Spook is attention starved.  I'm sure the man knows if he is  addicted or not.  Many people know their limitations.  He admits Hydrocodone abuse but not Valium abuse.  I am sure people out there may lie about that to but don't be such an ass.  Go attend a Star Trek convention or something you loser.
If taken as directed and under doctors care, I'm sure he knows addiction or not.
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I apologise for the confusion over Patrick vs. Tom. The idea was to only start using tom again when I'd gotten some constructive help for myself. Unfortunately, I've been layed off from my job and can't afford rehab for several months, at least. I tried to change my registration back to tom, but I don't think I can change it without some special dispensation from the administrator of the Addiction Forum. I think it's a "cookie" issue at this point. I can delete my cookie and re-register as tom, but then I have to do the same for every other site I go to, including sites likes Amazon.com, etc. I have been reluctant to do that, so I have been using Patrick, which is my middle name, so it's not entirely bogus, for what that's worth. Anyway. I ask you to bear with me until I get things straightened out. The gods willing, I'd still like to follow through with the buprenorphine rehab or detox help before using'tom' again -- as I promised I'd do -- CSAM, the california addiction physicician's group, tells me buprenorphine will not be legalized in California until the third quarter of the year 2001, even though physicians are attending seminars on using bup in San Francisco right now (www.csam.com):
"Dear Tom:

It has not yet been approved by the FDA.  Approval is expected in the 3rd quarter of 2001 but things don't always go according to plan with the federal government.  Take care.

Michael Barack"

So, that's as much as I know. It must be real since they're selling rather expensive seminar seats to physicicians interested in learning how to use buprenorphine in a private office setting. I am still optopmistic that it will all fall into place if we can just show some patientce and hang in there a while. If that doesn't work, I may still go Doc Dan' way and ask for methadone treatment. There is some question in my mind as to whether the methadone clinic will take a "micky-mouse" Darvon addict like me for methadone treatment. Since Darvon is a synthetic, I'm not even sure it will register on their pre-screen drug test you have to pass before you can get on methadone. Maybe Doc Dan can answer that one. If necessary, I'll score some Vicodin or even OxyContin before I report to the clinic if that's what it takes to prove I'm addicted. Thirty years of opiate addiction is certainly real enough, regardless of what I'm maintaining with now. Frankly, I wouldn't be heartbroken if I wound up on methadone for the rest of my life. At least I would be free of this constant acquisition grind and could devote myself to my career without the distraction of having to score all the time. Even though they say methadone is really hard to get off off, I'd happily swap that habit for the one I have now. At least I could go on with my life if I didn't have to constantly worry about my next fix. In that respect, I think Doc Dan is on the right track and has given us some solid gold information where that is concerned.
How are you, anyway, Doc Dan? I miss hearing from you. Drop us a line when you get a chance! You are a man of srong opinions that don't always jive with my ideas, but you are an honest man genuinly devoted to helping people and for that I respect and like you immensly. I miss hearing from you and I don't think I'm alone in saying this. Doc Dan, are you out there? If I go the methadone route, I am going to need your advice on a number of things and woud feel better just knowing you're still on the forum and that I can still talk with you. Please respond, even if it's just to let us know you're still out there.
Regards,
Tom et al
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Tom knows what hes talking about.  Ive used opiates for a while now and have had many relapses and periods of withdrawal on my own.  Ive been in the 50mg/day range - (usually oxycontin) and have detoxed twice with the aid of valium and clonodine.  I strongly suggest the immodium, if you dont have it - You will be on the john very frequently and youre insides will feel like ****.  Valium is very helpful to calm you down, and also let you sleep (use about twice the dose at bedtime).  It also calms you down.  When i have detoxed without it i was in a constant panic and restless state that seems to never subside during those first few days.  You want to be careful with the valium though.  After the first couple days taking it aggresively you want to only take a couple a day for the next day or two and then cut them out.  After that when and if you start feeling anxious, restless and uneasy - i suggest stretching, walking, exercise of anykind.  Like he said it will release the endorphines.  If your use is where mine has been, it is manageable to detox on your own.  However, you will be likely to relapse without some consueling, group work and/or support to deal with the addiction.
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try this:

While you're free to follow the advice that follows, in-patient detox would be the safest and, assuming you screen the place you go for detox first (to make sure they're not cold turkey fanatics -- there are such places), probably the best choice.

But read this first, in the event you decide to go it solo:

I'm not a doctor but someone who will be even more useful to you -- an rx opiate addict of thirty years and counting. I've copped, used and cold turkey'd them all and I can and will tell you more than the doctor will about what's coming.

I assume you've tried tapering with the usual results - harder than hell, isn't it?


The great good news, my friend, is that you're barely using above the prescribed dosages and frequency of those mythical creatures know as "normies" in AA/NA meetings. Lucky *******! I once kicked a 75 Vicodin per day habit (yes, I mean seventy-five pills per day) lying on the concrete floor of the Orange County jail intake unit. Just thought I'd add a little perspective for whatever it's worth.

Here's the deal. You're withdrawal symptoms will start making themselves known in about 10 to 12 hours. You'll ache, especially in the thigh muscles but, really, you'll start hurting everywhere. You'll feel like you just can't concentrate or sit still. You'll start feeling some anxiety - just an overall feeling of blunted panic, I guess you could say. Now - very important - before you allow yourself to get into withdrawal, go the supermarket and buy a 24-pill supply of brand-name Imodium anti-diarrhea tabs. Get the brand name. They're more potent, no matter what anyone says. Keep them close to you. At the first twinge of the runs, even just a hint or a growling sound from your diaphragm area - take two Imodium at once. Just chuck 'em. Don't wait til you're drizzling green goo into the bowel, which, by the way, will burn your ass something awful. So, anyway, use the Imodium aggressively. If the feeling comes back, hit it with two more - no half measures. Use the full dose each time you use them.

Do you have access to some valium or Xanax or Librium or Klonopin? These are benzos that will help immensely with the anxiety. If you've got them. I recommend using a strong, sleep-inducing dose the first day of your withdrawal and then tapering the dose down gradually to nothing in about 4 days - that's about how long your withdrawal will be upon you. Of course, with some, it lasts even longer. Anyway, if you don't have any Valium, go to the health food store and buy some Valerian Root extract pills. They have a distinctly valium-like calming effect that will let you get some sleep.

Now, the muscle aches will get worse as you go into day two. If you have a Jacuzzi, live in the thing! Or if not, take lots of hot baths to soak those leg muscles as often  as possible. It's about the only thing that helps, but it's very effective and will let you get to where you can relax on the couch or bed and watch some good flicks. Have a hot bath or Jacuzzi revved up all the time and use it every time those muscle aches come back. They're a real *****, believe me, but will subside in about four days or say.

Need I say don't -DON'T- try to self medicate your way around withdrawal with alcohol or sleeping pills like seconol or phenobarb. Forget alcohol altogether. That means beers, too. Alcohol will undue your whole detox if you let it.

Take lots of short walks. Nothing strenuous, just get out of the house and walk and think. Take a Walkman with you with some energizer tunes or even some mellow stuff. Preferably not the music you got high too. It acts too much like a trigger.

Now, if you can, and I'm hoping you can, schedule this detox so that at least the first few days are on a weekend. Retire from the world for a few days. It's best that way for you and the people around you.

Eat all you want, whatever suits your fancy. If you're using the Valiums or one of those other benzos I mentioned, they'll make you eat like a pig. This is good. Also, take some good vitamins every day. Be aggressive about it. Also, while at the health food store, get some Milk Thistle capsules. The liver is one of the few organs in the human body that, with a little cooperation from you, will repair itself. See, all the Tylenol in the Lortabs has already taken a toll that needs to be addressed if you're to fully recover. The Milk Thistle will help this healing process along.

Now, what am I forgetting
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Hello Frank.  I am watching with intrest your thread on hydro withdrawal from 50 mgs. I also am trying to get off, but more like 70mgs. I tried twice cold turkey and it is NOT enjoyable! I guess it can be done though because I've read sucess stories.J.B., cindi, Spook and other regulars, I feel as though I know you guy's i've been reading this forman for so long! I get some hope from your intelligent posts and I truly want to end this addiction(dependency)now.Please help if you can. Cold turkey is just to ugly for me.Could I get help through med supervision. mabey outpatient care? What meds would be givve to help? If I was admitted, How long would that take and again what meds would help? My wife knows the problem and is 100% supportive(God bless her).THanks in advance for any help, and Good luck Frank.
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I think you are unaware that Tom no longer posts here.  If you want to speak to Tom you must post your question to Patrick and it will get through to Tom and you will get an answer.  J.B.

Frank, 50 mgs a day of hydrocodone is a lot... maybe.  I don't think that the WD's from that amount will be that terrible or life threatening.  I was using that amount and more and had little problem detoxing under medical supervision.  I was able to keep my family out of the equation by telling them that I was going away on business for four days.  It's all up to you though.  I finally broke down and spilled the beans and was amazed that I had so much support from my family.  Think it over, and do what's best for you.  Good luck!  J.B.
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Apparentyl I was misunderstood - I have no problem with valium because I don't intend to discontinue it's use.It's the hydrocodone that's become a problem. I assume no one has heard from Tom?

Thanks, FL
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Because valium withdrawals do not occur until about 14 days after "last" dose(very,very long half life) 'HOW DO YOU KNOW YOU DO NOT HAVE a PROBLEM WITH IT`?
As Cindy says stay on rx-Valium until after the Hydrocodone detox,BUT do not underestimate the insidious nature of Diazepam(valium) ADDICTION.Personally I would prefer a Xanax psychosis induced abstinence syndrome(3-5 days,post-last dose that the lies Valium tells your Neurochemistry).
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Trust me when I tell you to listen to spook,  If you have read other posts on this forum then you should know that he is one person who knows everything about everything,  his input to this forum is invaluable.  Take care and good luck  cindi
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Since you won't be withdrawing from the Valium, it should help tremendously with the withdrawls.......cindi
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Thank you Cindi so much and I will keep the board posted ( if they are interested). No, I won't be withdrawing from the valium - I don't have a problem with it. Thank you also for the advice re treatment centers.

Tom - are you around? I would like to chat with you if so. My email is ***@****. I sure hope you are doing well. I miss your posts.

Frankie Lee
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If you plan on withdrawing over a 2 month period gradually, your withdrawals will not be such a nightmare, you may still experience a certain degree of discomfort but probably nothing you couldn't live with.  It is very difficult to gradually do this as you have to make a firm committment and stick to it. The Valium is the drug that you should never withdraw from cold turkey.  Never!!!!  this is extremely dangerous and you could be in serious trouble if you go cold turkey.  It was not clear to me if you were going to withdraw from the Valium as well as the vics etc.  Treatment facilities, at least the ones I am familiar with do protect the patient's confidentiality.  If your wish is not to involve your family they must honor your wishes.  I hope I have helped you in some way.  Keep posting and let us know how you are doing... Good luck     cindi             PS  I don't know where Tom has been but I know I miss hearing from him
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