How to quit benzodiazapines after 22 years of usage?

[angst]

I have PTSD and borderline personality d/o.  I am not a strong borderline.  I hold down jobs for long periods and I'm not sexually overactive.  I've been in therapy for 7 years with a PhD in psychology.  All my doctors, since I was 14 years old have placed me on one or another benzo.  I've tried SSRI's and the new neuroleptics.  I've tried all the new anticonvulsants.  I am a nurse without a license because of my addiction to opiates.  I live in a state where methadone is illegal for treatment.  I travel across state line to obtain it.  This time it saved my life.  I do not misuse the xanax or whatever benzo I am taking at the time.  I know one of the side effects is memory loss.  I cannot function without it.  I am home bound.  I cannot work, take my child for outings, or drive.  Will I ever be able to get off the benzodiazapines like the licensure board wants.  I do not want to practice nursing right now.  I do not want to be around the drugs.  I am changing my career.  Do I need a good psychiatrist instead of my internist who treats me for asthma.
Asthma is another reason I take the benzodiazapines.  A SL xanax will help stop a broncospasm after I've had my albuterol inhaler much quicker than without the xanax.  What are your thoughts?  I always tell my doctors that I am an opiate addict on methadone.  I give them a list of all my meds.  I take trazadone to help sleep.  But I usually get less than 18 hours of sleep anyway.  Can you help?

[Erin's Mom]

I am taking 1 mg Klonopin 3x a day for anxiety, for which it works extremely well.  I have tried other medications that are not benzos, but they do not work, or do not work well.  My problem is my memory and my coordination.  I cannot remember simple things (what I had for dinner last night) and more complex things (such as the plot to a tv show I've just watched).  I even went on a long hike with my husband at a place he insisted I had been to before.  I had absolutely no memory of the first hike at all.  I might a well have been there for the first time.  So I did what I always do:  I pretended I remembered even though I did not.  But there are plenty of times that that strategy doesn't work, as in having my daughter tell me she is working tonight, and then I worry when she doesn't come home.  My family is very aware but not terribly tolerant of my poor memory, though they do write me lots of notes so I remember.  I saw a neurologist who ruled out organic dysfuntion;  I had an MRI; and I took a neuropsychological exam: all negative for memory loss.  I am clumsy, too.  Sometimes I lose my balance for no particular reason.  I have fallen at least four times in the last month when I trip over things--fallen rather than regained my balance as I would have had in the past.  Does anyone else have these problems with their Klonopin? And does anyone know of a different benzo or medication that might eliminate these side effects?  (P.S. I am allergic to Buspar).  Thanks.  

Erin's Mom

[angst]

welcome to the forum.  i am a 22 years of 36 years user of benzodiapines.  i take it for PTSD, borderline d/o, & asthmatic.
i was in rehab for opiate addiction & they tried to take me off the benzo's.  they were doing this due to the nursing licensure.
they gave me a slow phenobarb detox.  i did not have a seizure,
but i did have a heart attack.  i would get a second opinion.  good luck & Blessings!

                              ava

[Lizze]

Recently went to a shrink, who put me on Neurontin + Paxil for DSMIV BiPolar II. He wants me to taper off Klonopin (as he states it's the same as taking a drink...I've been in recovery for over 20 years and this seems a ridiculous asessment!)I've carefully utilized Klonopin for over 10+ years and do NOT abuse
medication. I am concerned about going off Klonopin, only to be "addicted" to Neurontin. What say you, one or all? Thanks!

[tlk]

I read that you didn't want to go back to nursing, right? Is that where you got in trouble? What are you looking for? Would it be better at a doctor's office that didn't keep those kind of drugs around (I'm ignorant here, so sorry).
I've really suffered with panic attacks, especially in times of stress. I'm not supposed to be driving right now because of the seizures, but I have to. Panic attacks/anxiety are horrible. I get afraid I can't breathe, even though I know I can. The Tegretol for seizures is supposed to calm me down with anxiety, too. I can't take benzos since the seizures because I have epilepsy (although I've hardly ever taken them and wasn't when I had the seizures). I could take buspar or paxil but am trying to just deal. Sometimes, you can't though.
Do you stay on the methadone forever, or a set time, and how do you get off it? Does it have the same side effects as the other narcs? Luckily mine never got high enough with hydro to need that. I guess I was always too afraid to go the next step. However, if I were a nurse and knew how to inject my veins and was around it, I have no doubt I would have done so. In college I actually thought of changing my major to pharmacy for obvious reasons. Luckily I've never had that easy access. tlk

[angst]

I do not plan on taking the methadone for more than 2 years for so.  I've been on for 14 months now.  It may take longer this time around.  I cannot set a time limit.  The important thing is that I stay away from all illicit drugs.  If cough syrup is in the house, I'd drink that.  Actually, I'd probably tell Michael, my ex, to lock it up.  I am stronger and meaner about drugs around me.  
Klonopin is a benzo, but it also an anticonvulsant.  It is a long acting benzo that helps a lot with anxiety.  I was on it for years.  I've been on benzo's for 22 years of my 36 year life.

[angst]

Thanks for the address. I'll email in a little while.  I am not totally home bound.  I have been for a period of 6 months.  It was due to extreme anxiety which impaired my perception of the way everything appears.  The sky seemed as if it was falling, and colors of the trees and cars were surreal, like a photo that had been exposed before development.  
That was about 15 years ago.  I now can travel to Mobile, AL or Gulfport without much anxiety.  I can drive alone.  But without the xanax or a benzo, I would be completely home bound again.  When I was at the last rehab, they were trying to meet the nursing board's requirements for licensure, not treat me.  They had me on naxalone (sic), neurotin, trazadone (during the day), effexor, and one more that I forget.  All those drugs were to replace the xanax.  I had a heart attack there.  When I got out,
I went back to my internist, and he put me back on Xanax.  I stayed on the needle after I got out for about two months, but only allowed myself to shoot 2mg of dilaudid at a time.  I shot up 3 or 4 times a day, but only 2 mg at a time.  Then I got on the methadone clinic again.  
The methadone and xanax work for me.  I am functional.  Hell, I need a job.  I've been looking and applying.  I leave my resume everywhere.  When I get the want ad's, I do the crytoquote and forget to look for jobs.  Actually, I am too lazy to look through the want ads.  Thanks for listening.

[tlk]

Why are you housebound, because of the medical problems, or depression? I would't leave the house for weeks after detoxing, just recently got better. Luckily my mom came and got me and took me to San Antonio with her, to stay there and be taken care of. She forced me to eat, leave the house, get out of bed. I didn't want to but I did, or face her wrath.
It was bad, leaving my kids for five days with my husband; I know it was a huge strain on him since he's the only one earning money, had to take them to school and pick them up, cook, all that. We paid his mom to come clean one day. Once I got home I started to fall right back in bed, then forced myself to PRETEND that I felt better. Sometimes pretending makes me actually start to feel that way. I'm good at pretending, too!
I'm hitting a meeting Sunday. Are there others in your area that don't have meeting hogs? This board has been very therapeutic (sp) for me. I will email later; my address is ***@****, if you want to write.

[tlk]

Oh Angst, I am sorry. But don't blame yourself for HIS actions. Take responsibility for what you did, but his wife cannot hold you guilty for what HE did. You did not cheat on her; you did not commit adultery against her even in the legal sense! What happened is between you and your husband, and between him and his wife. She may not accept that but you must, and block her out of your life. I know it sucks having someone hate you like that, and you probably feel like a horrible person. You aren't. You are human. You made a mistake, or maybe you just did what you had to at the time. We've all been there.
How old is your daughter? You have to forgive yourself. Your husband has to forgive you (if he knows). You have to move on. If you are still together, have you thought of renewing your vows? It can be very healing, because you are making a new start. Just a thought...
Remember, the mistakes you make are what make you the person you are now. Of all the horrible things I've done, there are only a few I truly would change. The rest made me grow and change. Some were just so bad they weren't worth any amount of growth! But I'm trying to channel even those, using them for my writing, trying to get something out of this ****!
If you want to talk, let me know. I can sympathize. tlk

[oh please already]

well good morning! here i was whining on the other borud and you still took the time for me.  :) you made me relize something else,i too have been using my inhalers a lot too( STRESS I GUESS) and i forgot how jumpy that stuff makes me-  anyway just a note to let you and everyone to know im loving you and just so thankful ,without every one here i would be without hope      laura

[angst]

tlk,  i can almost always use an ear and some positive feedback.
i tend to be very hard on myself. i take blame for everything, even if i was not there.  i appreciate your words of encouragement.  if you want to email-***@****- is my address.  i do not make enough meetings, because that means i have to get out of the house.  there is also a 13 stepper who stops by our group from time to time.  he is functionally illiterate, and his manipulation on the group(using up the whole hour on killing his dog or something like that) is frustrating.  i want to get up and walk out.  i guess i'm too polite.  

meagain,  it sure is good to see you posting again.  how are you feeling?  how is the taper going or do you take the bup for chronic pain?  did you get in touch with your doctor?  let me know how it turned out.

[Seamstress]

This is a really bad time of year for asthmatics.  All that pollen.  I will never understand why people carry grudges.  Look at it this way.  It hurts them more than you because it will eat them up inside. You made amends and let it go, so you are a much better person and probably a happier one because of that. And you're probably right that at some point, she'll lose interest in you or find someone else to torment.

[tlk]

Angst, I'm sorry for the problems. I too have a person, a woman who I never did a thing to, who wants to hurt me. Also a man who I don't even know, who hates me as well. I know why: I was the sheriff's right-hand-girl. Everyone thought we were having an affair (he's old enough to be my dad) which I most certainly was not, although he wanted to. Anyway after I quit my job, they actually called the media and said I was suing the sheriff for sexual harrasment. They would call my mother-in-law in the middle of the night. The man had been fired and hated me; I don't know why the woman did it. It's terrible, having someone hate you. If you made amends, try to let it go. Screw em. If they can't get a life and have to ruin yours, they are the ones with the problems. You can do nothing else, so don't waste your energy on it. It's tough; I hurt people too and am trying to forgive myself. In this case making amends directly would hurt them more. I screwed up my life so bad; ruined my reputation, my career, and almost my family. Please know you are not alone. I hope you feel better.

[angst]

It takes one who has suffered to understand someone like me.  I appreciate you so much.  I have taken grief over the xanax.  I do not over use it.  My doctor would cut me off in a hurry.  He keeps my asthma under control.  Right now, i'm battling bronchitis and sinusitis.  Not a big deal, unless you have asthma.  The meds make me so shaky.  So forgive the typo's and half sentences.  In the back of my mind, I still worry about the day my doctor retires or something.  
That is sick thinking.  I need to stay in the here and now.  I have plenty to think about and do.  I think I will call on one of my affluent older contacts to try to get a job.  With my ex-husband being the fire chief you'd think I could get a job.  I have a person who tries to sabotoge everything in my life.  i hope she is not interested in me these days, but I got a call last thursday.  I picked up on the  5th ring.  I heard her tell another person, "i let it ring and ring, she's not there.".  I hurt this person, tried to make amends, but she is obsessed with me hurting every day of life.  I did a terrible thing to her, but it is over.  Maybe not with her other half, he would bring me up just to make her feel low.  He is an M.D. and the most narcistic person i've ever met.  He is brillant, but he has issues, and i mean issues.  I hope she leaves me along.  She is old enough to be my mother.  I'm truly sorry that I hurt her.  What else can I do?

[Seamstress]

Yes, the docs will sometimes make you worse than you were before you started.  That's why it's important to find a good one. Someone, I think it was Jafco, posted a link to ASAM which is a good place to start looking.  It sounds like you're doing much better.  And if you need to take a med for whatever reason, there's nothing wrong with that. Benzos are real life savers for many people.

[angst]

Thanks.  I did have the affair with the woman's husband.  Mother had just died and even though I was married, I needed this man.  If for nothing else, to help me forget the pain of losing her.  He had affairs before me and probably after me, but I really scared her.  He loved me, and rubbed her face in it too many times.  She was an administrator where I worked.  She had me transferred to all kinds of floors for a month or two.  I loved my job until she made it a living hell.  I asked for it.  I should have left her man alone.  If mother had been alive, she would have told me so.  I lost my man in that respect.  He is still good to me, but he will never trust me again.  I accept responsibility for of all of it, even the doctor's part.  We were together 3 years.  It has been over for 2 years and she still calls here.  I will not move and leave my child.  That is why he and I never got together.  He wanted to leave together, relocate so she could not fool with his practice and life.  Never ask your lover to choose between you and her child.  I could not.  It caused a lot of heart ache.  I'm almost over it.

[Seamstress]

Protracted withdrawl is a syndrome in which withdrawl symptoms persist long after the drug is discontinued.  Sometimes up to a year.  It is caused by the length of time it takes brain receptors to heal.  Detoxing too quickly seems to cause it for some reason while a slow taper has better results. My friend had symptoms for several months following her one week detox which apparently is average for the syndrome. As for me, I'm at the end of my taper and no anxiety or shakiness.  Some insomnia but I had that before I started the benzos..it was one of the reasons I took them, so it probably is just the reemergence of an underlying condition.

[angst]

I know what word salad is.  My sister is a bad epileptic.  Man, we are blessed without that diagnosis.  I am okay for now.  I gotta go for a job interview and to check on my sister.  Her phone is disconnected.  Money only goes so far, especially with her bunch of beer drinkers and pot smokers.  I love them all though.  I will not subject myself to another rehab without knowing EXACTLY what i'm gettng myself into unless I'm beyond the point of knowing.  I hope never to get there again.  Thanks for all the advice.  I posted a note about buprenex on one of the other forums.  It is from my nursing experience.  Just a thought.  No harm intended.  We all need to get well.

[cindi]

they detoxed me from barbs when I did the treatment thing in 89  i think i was using nembutal,,seconal  somthing along those lines  I actually can't remember  i was stealing so much i actually forget the drugs i used but that is when i got off the demerol etc..so i had to be detoxed from benzos,,(valium etc) opiates and barbiturates I don't know which wd was worse since I did it all at the same time...love cin

[skipper]

angst:
welcome to the forum, always room for just one more addict, come
in!

about the benzo's...ithink your best bet is klonopin, but maybe
your doc has more insight. i've never (yet) been addicted to
benzos, but back in the mid 70's i had me a ripper of a penta-
barb habit. i was working in a medical research unit and had ac-
cess to 100 ml vials of pentabarbitol. i think there was 300 mg./
ml/ (5 grains). i used to wake up with rug burns from my face to
my feet after a good night of shooting that pure **** into my
veins. at the lab it was used for "putting down dogs" (1 ml for
every 2 kilograms)

i was detoxed in a psych ward. they used the Berkly Method, which
involves switching you over to pheno-barb. i had several seisures
and *word salad* (know what that is? if so i feel sorry for you).
they dosed me with 1/4 grain phenos. my early doses filled dixy-
cups! i think it took a total of about 12 weeks to detox me.
there are beter methods in use now. i believe the berkly method
is one of the cruelest ways to go. it got me off that **** though

the worst drug i've ever w/d from were barbs. i've since been an
extensive opiate abuser. opiate w/d is a childs cake walk com-
pared to barb w/d!

i wish you the best of luck getting off the methadone. just keep
telling yourself "if it doesn't kill me (getting off it), it will
make me stronger!

please keep posting and keep an angel on your shoulder!
kip

[Seamstress]

I had a friend who did the phenobarb taper. She didn't have any of your problems but she did suffer protracted withdrawl which thankfully, has resloved after 6 months of hell.  I'd never recommend that.  As Jafco points out, if the medication is necessary for you quality of life, then by all means stay on it. There is a big difference between addiction and dependency.  As an addict and abuser, I can tell you that.  I wish I could take it responsibly because I believe it would help me but unfortunately, that's not in the cards for me.

[jafco]

It's sounds like you have been through alot and I wish you well. Do what you need to do to have the best quality of life you can, even if it involves medication for now. I know that feeling about not having the meds there for you. It's not a good feeling, which is one of the reasons why I quit. I just got tired of spending all my time worrying when I'm going to run out and if I'm going to able to get my prescription refilled early. Or if they were going to cut me off all together. I agree that there are a lot of different opinions on how to manage addiction. The most important thing is that it is safely and compassionately done. So go with what feels right for you.

All the best

Jafco

[angst]

I can manange to take the xanax as prescribed.  The doctor would be upset with me if I came back early or started doctor hopping.
I'm lucky to have him, and I do not want to risk losing him.  He knows I am on methadone.  I get 6 take outs and do not abuse them.  The thought of not having my dose for the next day keeps me straight.  Thanks for the support.  Excuse my ignorance, but what is protracted withdrawal?

[angst]

I hope I got the nickname right.  That sounds terrible.  I probably would have been in that shape if I had stayed on the rehabs recipe of 5 drugs for my xanax.  I was pretty messed up when I got out of that place.  My psyche is building itself up more by the day.  I feel more real and less surreal.  Thanks for the answer.

[angst]

When I entered my last rehab for having a positive UDS at work.  I am an RN and worked in a busy, poor private hospital.  They took me off the xanax completely and put me on phenobarb for a couple of weeks.  That is when I had the heart attack.  The phenobarb did nothing for me except give me a terrible headache.  I know it is a potent barbituate.  I sister took it for epilepsy for over 30 years.  I was on 360mg/day for 3 days, then 270/day for 3 days, then 180mg etc...  It almost killed me.
So the experts do not always know what is best.  The doctors were from various backgrounds with a history of substance abuse themselves and had become addictionologists.  I will stick with this for now.  I do not know if I'll continue this for another year.  I cannot see that far ahead.  My detox off methadone and any other drug is in my control right now.  I do not dose on methadone at the highest dose, but I am on 90 mg.  I will probably drop to 80mg in the next month.  I was on 80mg until I had a total abdominal hysterectomy and oral surgery right behind each other.  Thanks for all the advise.  Honestly, being dependent on anything bothers me.  What if I wake up one day and it is not there?