Asperger's?

[frustrated51]

I need some advice with dealing with a mother in law I suspect of having Asperger's.  She displays some of the symptoms:
1. arrogance
2. lack of empathy
3. lack of conversational rules (continuously interrupts conversations, cannot interpret non-verbal clues)
4. controlling personality trait
5. rudeness

I had thought she had some narcissistic disorder until a grandson was born with Autism.  I began reading about Autism and came across Asperger's Syndrome and a number of the symptoms fit her.

I cant' count the times she has been so rude and has no clue as to what she is doing/saying to others.  She will be the only one in the room that doesn't understand that she has made offensive remarks.  No one, not even her husband or children, wants to pull her aside and have a talk with her.  Do individuals with this problem react negatively to people pointing out what they have done is wrong?  She is one never to accept blame and has never apologized even when it is evident she is in the wrong.   I know it is not my place to take lead in seeking help, but she seems to be alienating everyone around her.  If I should say something, what should I expect?

[Sally44]

As frustrated as you may be (and we all have mother-in-laws), this is not something that should come from you.  For children/adults with autism/aspergers they are not doing things to be deliberately rude/offensive/controlling etc.  They simply do not automatically know the social rules that we automatically pick up.  They find it very difficult to navigate their way through social stuff.
If you have concerns you can raise them through your husband and then it is up to him to do something if anything.  
I would suggest you read some books about Aspergers to get a better understanding of it.  There are many good traits of Aspergers.   For example, honesty, loyalty etc.  They are not devious or vindictive or try to undermine you.  Although they may have rigid expectations of how things should be done and would tell you if you weren't doing it in the way they expected it to be done.  But they do that to reduce their anxiety and because they have learnt to do something in one way and cannot imagine another way of doing it.  It is not a criticism of you.
If you imagine yourself suddenly dumped in a foreign land and foreign culture and think how many times a day you would say and do the 'wrong' thing then you will be beginning to get how it is for this woman everyday (if indeed it is Aspergers).  Because unfortunately, although you may want to point out her faults, that is not going to make her understand what she is doing wrong.  If she has always been like that, and is like that to everyone, then try not to take it personally because she will not be doing this as some kind of personal attack to you.

[Sally44]

I have found some of the different diagnostic criteria under Aspergers.  That may help you see if that may be the problem.

DIAGNOSTIC CRITERIA FOR ASPERGER'S DISORDER (DSM IV)

A. Qualitative impairment in social interaction,
   as manifested by at least two of the following:

    1) marked impairment in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviours such
       as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body postures, and gestures
       to regulate social interaction;

    2) failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental
       level;

    3) a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests or
       achievments with other people (eg: by a lack of showing, bringing,
       or pointing out objects of interest to other people);

    4) lack of social or emotional reciprocity.

B. Restricted repetitive and stereotyped patterns of behaviour, interests,
   and activities, as manifested by at least one of the following:

    1) encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and
       restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity
       or focus;

    2) apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines
       or rituals;

    3) stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (eg: hand or finger
       flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements);

    4) persistent preoccupation with parts of objects

C. The disturbance causes clinically significant impairment in social,
   occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

D. There is no clinically significant general delay in language
   (eg: single words used by age 2 years, communicative phrases used by
   age 3 years).

E. There is no clinically significant delay in cognitive development or in
   the development of age-appropriate self-help skills, adaptive behaviour
   (other than social interaction), and curiosity about the environment in
   childhood.

F. Criteria are not met for another specific Pervasive Developmental
   Disorder, or Schizophrenia.

DIAGNOSTIC CRITERIA FOR ASPERGER'S DISORDER (GILLBERG, 1991)

A. Severe impairment in reciprocal social interaction as manifested by at
   least two of the following four:

   1. Inability to interact with peers.

   2. Lack of desire to interact with peers.

   3. Lack of appreciation of social cues.

   4. Socially and emotionally inappropriate behaviour.


B. All-absorbing narrow interest, as manifested by at least one of the
   following three:

   1. Exclusion of other activities.

   2. Repetitive adherence.

   3. More rote than meaning.

C. Speech and language problems, as manifested by at least three of the
   following five:

    1. Delayed development of language.

    2. Superficially perfect expressive language.

    3. Formal, pedantic language.

    4. Odd prosody, peculiar voice characteristics.

    5. Impairment of comprehension, including misinterpretations of
       literal/implied meanings.

D. Non-verbal communication problems, as manifested by at least
   one of the following five:

    1. Limited use of gestures.

    2. Clumsy/gauche body language.

    3. Limited facial expression.

    4. Inappropriate expression.

    5. Peculiar, stiff gaze.

E. Motor clumsiness, as documented by poor performance on
   neurodevelopmental examination.

DIAGNOSTIC CRITERIA FOR ASPERGER'S DISORDER (SZATMARI, ET AL. 1989)

A. Solitary, as manifested by at least two of the following four:

    1. No close friends.

    2. Avoids others.

    3. No interest in making friends.

    4. A loner.

B. Impaired social interaction, as manifested by at least one of the
   following five:

    1. Approaches others only to have own needs met.

    2. A clumsy social approach.

    3. One-sided responses to peers.

    4. Difficulty sensing feelings of others.

    5. Detached from feelings of others.

C. Impaired non-verbal communication, as manifested by at least one
   of the following seven:

    1. Limited facial expression.

    2. Unable to read emotion from facial expressions of child.

    3. Unable to give messages with eyes.

    4. Does not look at others.

    5. Does not use hands to express oneself.

    6. Gestures are large and clumsy.

    7. Comes too close to others.

D. Odd speech, as manifested by at least two of the following six:

    1. abnormalities in inflection.

    2. talks too much.

    3. talks too little.

    4. lack of cohesion to conversation.

    5. idiosyncratic use of words.

    6. repetitive patterns of speech.

E. Does not meet criteria for Autistic Disorder.

DIAGNOSTIC CRITERIA FOR ASPERGER'S DISORDER (ICD-10, WHO, 1992)

A. A lack of any clinically significant general delay in language or
cognitive development. Diagnosis requires that single words should have
developed by two years of age and that communicative phrases be used by
three years of age or earlier. Self-help skills, adaptive behaviour and
curiosity about the environment during the first three years should be at a
level consistent with normal intellectual development. Motor milestones may
be somewhat delayed and motor clumsiness is usual (although not a necessary
feature).

B. Qualitative impairment in reciprocal social interaction.
(Criteria as for autism, see above).

C. Restricted, repetitive, and stereotyped patterns of behaviour,
interests and activities. (Criteria as for autism, see above).
Return to my autism page

[annarose]

look at this web page it is for a publishers of books on aspergers syndrome

www.jkp.com

these books may be of service
every blessing
a-R

[888mom]

Your motherinlaw sounds like mine... Definitely all those traits.  I am fairly certain she has OCD, and not mildly either.  She is very controlling, which my husband and I are going through counseling now to learn how to respond to some of her manipulations.  Anyways, she is unaware most of the time of what she says.  Last December these middle schoolers were in a library playing their violins, and she quite loudly said "I do not know how these poor music teachers can stand listening to this crappy music every day while they teach these kids.  I'd go nuts."  one of the kids heard her say it, and I must say was quite upset and ready to stop playing.  I had to drag my motherinlaw away.  She still didn't realize what was wrong even after I pointed it out.  My husband says she's been like that ever since he could remember as a small child.  Anyways, I don't think she has Aspergers or any form of autism even though she doesn't seem to have a clue about how others feel.  I think it is part of her OCD issue.  She has not been diagnosed with OCD, even though she will panic if she is not in control of things.  And she has to have routines for everything.  She does have agoraphobia and has been diagnosed with that.  She is on medication for her agoraphobia, and it does help her OCD tendencies.  I would definitely say she has OCD because she likes to control situations down to the minute detail including other people.  If I am going on a trip, she tries to pack for me and calls me obsessively about did I pack such and such and will go nuts.  SHe has also cut my daughter's hair without asking me and has done other things with my daughter without asking me.  She feels that she is entittled, I think.  I really don't think she has aspergers.  She is incredibly social, has no sensory issues, looks people in the eyes, and although she lacks empathy most of the time, I think it's because she's narcissistic and snobbish (she constantly talks about class and neighborhoods and status).

My husband and I have learned that we must set limits with her.  And not only set limits but enforce them.  And not give reasons.  We tell her stuff like "that doesn't work for us."  And we don't have to explain why.  We can say stuff like "it just doesn't."  Or "we talked about it as a couple, and we feel that it just doesn't work for us."  Then we change the subject.  It's an ongoing battle, but if you give people with control issues an inch, they will take a mile.  Seriously, if it is an issue that is impacting you and how you interact with her, go see a counselor.  My husband and I have benefitted immensely from counseling on how to deal with his mom.  It has also helped our marriage out to learn how to set limits, how to keep boundaries.  Boundaries are not just for kids, they are also for other adults.  Oh, and we also learned that if she says stuff in public and lacks empathy... that's her problem, not ours.  

There are so many problems out there besides autism.  Maybe your motherinlaw has aspergers.  Maybe she has something else.  But, I really caution you, you probably don't want to bring it up to have her go get counseling.  She's got to realize something's wrong on her own... or make your husband say something to her.  My counselor told me that my husband has to address the serious issues since it's his mom.  There are certain things that I can not bring up.  

[888mom]

Um... I didn't realize you were a man... so sorry about that... you might want to have your wife bring up the things... unless you do have a husband... anyways I get mixed up with pronouns sometimes too.  Anyways, your profile said male and I didn't read it till after I posted.

[SueNYC]

Hard to tell - the only longitudnal study down with women vs. men with Asperger's is that those women truly affected rarely marry.   The men it seemed had a better shot at being tolerated y the opposite sex.  That is not to say that there isn't a whole truckload of women who have inappropriate social traits.

As for commenting on people's social position, income, etc. - I knew alot of non- Asperger people who frequently do that - it is how they do it.

For instance my son (when he was about 6) asked the building porter to why all the porters were African American and all the doormen where white (something I had bot noticed myself until he brought it up).  Was he being racist - not really - but it was certainly an inappropriate remark.  We had a similar incident when he tried to convince a slightly built man with a high voice and long hair that he was really a woman (which was my first impression).  The thing is when I corrected him and tried to move on - it just didn't fly.  He needed to analyze the situation.

  

[888mom]

There's one woman who is on the various forums here... she has Aspergers and is married with 7 kids!  My brother lives out in California, near San Francisco (Silicon Valley area), and he has a few friends who have aspergers, including one woman who is married with a teenage son who is autistic.  So, to say rarely, there are a whole bunch of them out there defying that.  

[SueNYC]

I was just stating what a long term study showed.  the study also pointed out that tye were looking at people who had full blown Asperger's and not the borderline variety like my son has.  There is a belief that many more woman may have it than is actually stated but that female brains are better suited at navigating the social difficulties than men have.  .o matter how poiltely I put her off.    She set up two separate play stations in her house (you went to one with your child and she want to one with her child). It was like she didn't know how to have a play date with another mom.  There were other things - but that was an example.

Lot's of things rarely occur quite often when you have a population of 300 million people.  I met my first other EDS sufferer (outside my family) on this board.  Hell, EDS doesn't even rate its own community - and yet - there are brave souls willing to mate with us despite our high arched palates, our tendency to be nearsighted, our arthritic pain  and rubber skin.  Secretly I think they are impressed with our unnaturally limber abilities and wrinkle free faces - at least, that is what impressed my husband - lol.