Can you run out of neurotransmitters? (serotonin, dopamine and the like)?

[Rkk71]

I know no one here knows this for sure, and maybe I'm looking in the wrong place on here but thought I would put it out there. I am just wondering if anyone here has ever asked their doctor or qualified professional if it is possible to run out of neurotransmitters whether it be naturally or from substance abuse. I'm a young male (24) and abused alcohol for 5-6 years. I've havent drank in over a year and still just don't feel right. I went through terrible initial withdrawals, and now my problem is I feel like I am really emotionally numb to everything. I've tried many different meds  with no success. I got a few doctors that I have been working with, but recently feel like I'm giving up. One of the questions however I have never asked any of them, is it really possible to run out of certain brain chemicals (serotonin, dopamine, etc....)? Or are they always available? I've tried to look this up myself around the net but didn't find much of anything that was credible. Any info. or ideas at all would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[Sarah231]

That is a good question.
I've been wondering that myself.

[worried878]

I do know that in the body's attempt to restore balance..when we abuse chemicals the body will stop producing those chemicals or reduce production as u r feeding the body what it needs and it senses this....i am not sure if u can like completely quit producing them forever...but i do know it take a while for the brain to catch up...have u ever looked at the brain of an addict?  u can google it.....but then others who do not use can have the same results...there is a theory that some of us are deficient in the first place so we use..that is where the theory of the amino acids come into play...I try to remain hopeful and review the reasons i abused in the first place as i feel there were problems there or i would not have....prayers are with you and hang tight

[toomanytimes]

this sounds like a question for SableZen.....where are you?!?

[worried878]

and just re-thinking this...my next door neighbor had alot go wrong in her life...this is the neighbor on the other side...i have some crazy neighbors and they are not even addicts.....anyway she is an older lady and i do not know her well...she came over one day and told me she had run out of NTs dealing with stress and was in a severe depression...this was years ago and i thought she was a frickin nut...anyway that is what her doctor told her...she met someone on the internet several years back and she is as happy as a rooster in a henhouse.now...just trying to add a positive note

[narkz]

i don't know about neurotransmitters, but one should look at bodybuilders

due to years of high dosages of steroids, their testicles stop producing testosterone - permanently.
one of the big drugs for the advanced pro BBs is insulin.  After years of that, they are all permanent diabetics.

Their bodies shut down production of the natural hormones.  I can't say that i don't believe that long term use of narcs will change your brain's chemistry.  meth sure as hell changes the brains of addicts to that stuff, irrevocably.  it's seratonin and dopamine profiles are far more spikey than narcs' but still.  i worry that artificial happiness for a long period of time, hell, just the natural mood without chemical enhancement may feel a lot like depression.

[worried878]

yes...it is hard to differentiate as i think about this alot....like...is this how everyone feels and i just have not known it for a while?

[SableZen]

Well you don't just 'run out' so much as disrupt different parts of the production, flow, and reuptake by altering synaptic receptors in the brain.

It gets rather confusing, because of the vast number of neurotransmitters... endorphins, hormones, seretonin, melatonin, dopamine, etc... and the many different types of drugs people get addicted to. But all neurotransmitter production is inter-related to each other. You mess with one, you mess with the others. So no matter which drug or narcotic you look at, they all pretty much do the same thing: mess with the production, flow, and reuptake of neurotransmitters and the result is still addiction no matter the drug. And that disruption takes the body a long time to restore homeostasis due to changes in synaptic receptors. Clinical depression and anhedonia results in the mean-time (or even when one has simply gone too long between their last use).

Low seretonin availability has long been demonstrated to play a major role in some types of depression (mainly long-term, severe depression). Suicidal people VERY often have low levels of seretonin in the blood stream (almost invariably). It's not really known what came first though, depression or low seretonin... it's just known that low seretonin availability is intimately related to severe long-term depression.

It's also known that most chemical abuse over a long period of time results in malfunctions to the bodies production, use, and reuptake of neurotransmitters. Almost invariably, clinical depression results during and after acute withdrawal because of this. On top of that, depression (and corresponding low seretonin) is considered one of the most dangerous risk-factors towards developing an addiction in the first place... which also makes withdrawal and PAWS that much more difficult to deal with for some people.

Disruptions to dopamine levels is another neurotransmitter malfunction that is often blamed, after/during withdrawal for feelings of 'no energy', or more specifically a lack of desire to do anything, or to find enjoyment in actually doing anything.

I could go on and on, but I'll make myself shut up at this point... To answer your question though, yes alcohol use for that long can result in long-term changes to neurotransmitter production and use and often requires continued long-term counseling to overcome. It can take about a year in a lot of people to really start seeing a big improvement with depression after acute withdrawal. Antidepressant use during this period is becoming more and more common to help people through it.

[narkz]

antidepressants have their own drawbacks.
you go on SSRIs and u may never come off.  u have to go on suicide watch if you do.
a lot of ppl turn to benzos to help come off narcs and if u go on those long enough, w/d will give u a seizure and could kill u.

it's like there's no way out.  i had to come off narcs this time b/c the intraday depression was starting to become worse than any positive effect i was getting from the pills.  when that starts happening, u have to make changes or u are on an express elevator to a dirtnap.

[worried878]

agree....AD can also fill the gaps that make ur body think all is well and rduce production orf things we need...people that used to relax/benzos/alcohol usually have a different depletion than those who used for energy/cocaine/amphetamines...narcotics can be either as some use to relax and some use for energy...different origins or depletion but still affects all the receptors to some degree.....nicotine affects all of them and why it is such a hard habit to kick
sablezen...u always have such intelligent scientific answers...i love ur posts

[SableZen]

I wanted to add to expand on depression being a risk-factor in the first place... if you, like a majority of people had depression/anxiety prior to abusing a drug: that depression/anxiety is still going to be there after a period of active addiction. Which is a huge variable in how long it will take before people start feeling an improvement after withdrawal and abstinence. For some people this is relatively short, and for others very long. So there is no hard guideline in how it will take to fully recover.

narkz: I am a firm believer in the use of antidepressants if done correctly and if the person wants to try them. Compared to continued self-medicating with a narcotic, or relapsing back into an addiction, the risks are relatively minor. Some people do stay on SSRIs for the rest of their lives but does not need to be the case with most. A short term treatment of up to a year followed by a medically supervised tapering is often sufficient for helping a lot of people regain their lives and living again. They don't work for everyone, but they do help with a lot of people that otherwise would be lost.

[ready2help]

Thanks, SableZen, that was a very rich discussion you offered. It's fascinating stuff.

If anyone want to do a little reading, here's a link to some decent little packets of info (good color pics!). Gives some insight into the disease and the biology. I hope this is helpful for some of you.

http://www.****.gov