242516?1368227505
Enoch Choi, MD  
Male, 39
Palo Alto, CA

Specialties: Family Medicine

Interests: sinusitis, Migraine, Low back pain
Palo Alto Medical Foundation
Urgent Care
Palo Alto, CA
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2nd Wave of H1N1 Widespread Across America, Get Immunized!

Sep 26, 2009 - 100 comments
Tags:

H1N1

,

Flu

,

Influenza

,

swine flu

,

immunization

,

flu shot



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Fall is here, school is back in session, and once again it’s time to gear up for flu season. This year will have special challenges, as we are preparing for both seasonal flu and H1N1 (swine) flu.

[ [ [ [  MedHelp Note -- Dr. Choi is hosting a live HealthChat on Tuesday, October 20 at Noon EST! You can register here and ask questions LIVE: http://www.medhelp.org/health_chats/register/34  ] ] ] ]

The pandemic H1N1 flu (aka “swine flu”) began in April, and circulated in daycares, schools and camps over the summer but dropped off until very recently increasing to widespread levels again in many states. Virtually all the flu around now is the pandemic H1N1 virus. The H1N1 virus also predominated in the recent winter months of the Southern Hemisphere, which typically spreads north as we have our winter. There is concern that we are now experiencing a second wave of H1N1 this fall with the return of children to school.

You may have H1N1 if you have fever (temperature > 100 degrees) AND either cough or sore throat.  Fever is present in 94% of cases, cough in 92%.  Other possible symptoms include chills, runny nose, headache, muscle ache, and in less folks, nausea, vomiting and diarrhea.  Seventy percent of hospitalized cases have high risk conditions (including pregnancy), but 30% are apparently healthy young persons, so everyone needs to be careful to practice respiratory infection control.

Pandemic H1N1 flu affects the young with 5% occurring in persons older than age 50. It's mostly affecting children 5-14 years, but children 0-4 years are most frequently hospitalized (MMWR, 8/28/09). Those at higher risk include children with neuro-developmental disorders (e.g. cerebral palsy, developmental delay, MMWR, 9/4/09) and pregnant women who are four times more likely to be hospitalized for H1N1 infection (Lancet, 8/8/09). Those with asthma/COPD (emphesema/chronic bronchitis), diabetes, immuno-suppression (e.g. chronic steroids, chemotherapy or transplant patients), cardiac disease, pulmonary disease, renal failure, and chronic liver disease have increased risk. Obesity may be a separate risk factor. Persons > 60 may have some immunity to the H1N1 virus if they were exposed to H1N1 in 1976 or earlier outbreaks.

Since essentially all flu currently circulating is still pandemic H1N1, lab testing is not helpful at this time. If you get pneumonia after an ILI (Influenza-like-illness) or those with risk factors you may ask your doctor to test you and treat you with Tamiflu. Testing options for include the rapid influenza test (only 40-70% able to rule it out) or the H1N1 PCR test (more accurate in ruling it in). It is not useful to test if you've gotten over influenza or for screening for influenza for camp, vacation, school, or work to see if it's safe to go back. You could ask your doctor for a chest x-ray (CXR) if you have a ILI  (Influenza-like-illness) with shortness of breath, abnormal vital signs other than fever, or a pulse oximetry of 95 or lower on room air. This is especially so for those with risk factors.

Patients with ILI (Influenza-like-illness) AND risk factors AND no reason to have a fever from illness outside the respiratory tract may benefit from Tamiflu.  This is only useful when started within 72 hours of starting symptoms Since the vast majority of patients without risk factors recover fully, they don't typically benefit from Tamiflu. If you get pneumonia (seen on a CXR) soon after an ILI, consider asking your doctor for both antibiotics AND Tamiflu even if it's more than 72 hours after your symptoms started.  This is more helpful for those who are more sick.  Some very sick pregnant women with H1N1 and pneumonia have benefited from Tamiflu even starting a week after symptoms started.

Tamiflu is not recommended for prophylaxis-- to prevent getting H1N1. It is most appropriate for persons who have high risk conditions (e.g. pregnancy) and who are household contacts of suspected or confirmed H1N1 patients. There are a few reports of Tamiflu-resistant pandemic H1N1 viruses. With one exception, it has occurred in persons receiving Tamiflu for treatment or prophylaxis, a compelling case to limit unnecessary use.  Studies of anti-vira drugs (Tamiflu and Relenza with limited data sets) show no evidence of toxicity to either pregnant or breast-feeding moms (CMAJ 7/7/09). Because of the potential danger of H1N1 in pregnancy, CDC strongly recommends treatment of pregnant women with an ILI.

Folks with with ILI should stay home and isolate themselves as much as possible. In addition, they should consider these measures: surgical masks for patient and caregivers, gloves for caregivers, separate room for patient, keeping high risk persons out of the house, frequent hand-washing with hand sanitizer or soap and water.

Folks with fever plus cough, sore throat, or nasal congestion suggestive of influenza-like illness (ILI) should consider using surgical mask to prevent large respiratory particles from spreading to others and surfaces other folks touch.  Although N-95 masks plus gloves are recommended for health care workers, they have not been recommended for the general public.  They require careful fit testing to be effective (they spray a bitter tasting mist inside a plastic cone around your head-- if you taste it there isn't an effective seal with the mask).

Frequent hand washing is helpful, and when not available, alcohol hand rubs are very effective.  After many applications of the hand rub, a residue builds up that must be washed off to continue effectiveness of further applications.  Contaminated surfaces and door knobs can be wiped down with a virucidal product such as CavicideTM or Caviwipes XLTM or other cleansers.  

The new CDC recommendation for most persons states a person can end self-isolation at home when they are free of fever > 24 hours (when not taking anti-pyretics such as acetaminophen or ibuprofen). For health care providers and day care workers the old rule still applies: seven days after onset of illness or 24 hours after symptoms are gone, whichever is longer (resolution of symptoms means fever is gone and coughing much less). This gives a good idea of when to return to work, school, and lab testing is not necessary.

The seasonal flu vaccine is now available. This is the usual vaccine that protects against the three flu strains that have circulated in various forms over the last 30 years. The H1N1 vaccine may be available in late October.  Priority groups for the first round of H1N1 vaccination will probably include persons 6 months - 24 years, household contacts of infants < 6 months, pregnant women, persons 25-64 years with chronic medical conditions, and health care workers and first responders.

More details at: http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/

Feel free to ask more questions in my upcoming Web Chat at 9am PST on 10/20/09. You can register at http://www.medhelp.org/health_chats/register/34.

Comments
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by ChitChatNine, Sep 26, 2009
Thanks for the update on the flu.   Lots of good info.  

Any idea when the vaccine will be available for the public?  

There are a lot of unknowns still .........so we appreciate your journal and your upcoming Web Chat 10/20!!

C~

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by MDiv2009, Sep 27, 2009
Thanks for that entry...I'm up in Alaska, where H1N1 has been widespread for nearly a month now.  We've had three deaths at our hospital this season due to H1N1...and all three have been children. (One was 11 weeks old, one was 3 years old, one was 10 years old).  Obviously since I'm in close contact with patients, I'll be getting the vaccine when it becomes available here, but I have to wonder if the vaccine will do much good here since it's been widespread here for so long.

I guess I was lucky when I did my fit testing (I'm a 3M small)....because though we did use the plastic cone, we had very sweet tasting spray in our air, lol.

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by Enoch Choi, MDBlank, Sep 27, 2009
Chitchat9 I don't know about general public , do u fit in high risk?

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by Enoch Choi, MDBlank, Sep 27, 2009
MDiv2009 that's a concern shared by experts, that the immunization is coming a month later than the peak of this wave

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by ChitChatNine, Sep 27, 2009
Hi Dr. Choi,

Two of my four children are high risk for the flu but not sure due to their age if high-risk for Swine Flu.  They are asthmatic ages 16 & 18.  Tthere's been 4 cases @ my daughter's college in the last 2 weeks.  Her pediatrician is watching for release on the ingredients.  My oldest is anaphylactic to latex and some vaccines *still* contain latex in the stopper!   (*sighs*) so that is yet another concern for us.

Thanks -

C~

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by Enoch Choi, MDBlank, Sep 27, 2009
Chitchat9, I don't see that u fit, although your kids do...  Perhaps thru them, as a household contact

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by gss72, Sep 27, 2009
Don't take that shot!!! Look into what is in it and what it does. H1N1 was made in a LAB, the World Health Organization hs admitted this. Many more get sick and even die from the shot than the flu, which incidently, the regular flu kills more than the engineered H1N1. Look up what happened at fort Dix in 1976. Research why health care workers are refusing the shot (because they knowwhat's in it) getting fired (illegally) for it. Look into how many people get guillain barre from the shot. If you don't know what that is, LOOK IT UP. It's a debilitating neurological disease. Don't believe me, do the reasearch yourself, then make up your mind.

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by Enoch Choi, MDBlank, Sep 27, 2009
gss72's claim: "Many more get sick and even die from the shot than the flu".  H1N1 immunizations have not started so I don't know who is dying from it

gss72's claim: "regular flu kills more than ... H1N1".  So far, this is true

gss72's claim: "how many people get guillain barre from the [1976] shot".  Many did, that's why they stopped immunizing.  The technology used now is different

gss72's claim: "do the reasearch yourself, then make up your mind."   Wholeheartedly agree.

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by ChitChatNine, Sep 27, 2009

gss72:  I am very familiar with Guillain Barre ---   It's also been talked about in prior journals started by other members.  



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by gss72, Sep 28, 2009
My apologies I meant to say Many more will get sick sick and die, it is happening from the shot. I'm only saying this out of concern for people. The information I've read concerning this has lead me to absolutely refuse to take the shot. I'm not saing I'm an expert by any means, but consult experts. I wouldn't want to see people do anything for themselves  or their children that I wouldn't do  for my own family. One leading expert in the field is Dr Sherri Tenpenny. http://drtenpenny.com/default.aspx         She's how I got started looking into it, I heard her on a radio talk show and couldn't believe my ears so I researched i myself and found everything she claimed to be true. Even the fact that this virus is engineered. That means that everyone who dies from this has been murdered by scientists in a lab somewhere. It's very sad. It makes me so very angry and I pray that the appropriate people are held accountable.

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by Enoch Choi, MDBlank, Sep 28, 2009
Although Dr. Tenpenny may have been an emergency physician in the past, her writing concerns alternative medicine which has no real evaluation of H1N1 vaccination since it hasn't been administered yet, and she can't make claims about the risk of it or not.

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by ChitChatNine, Sep 28, 2009
gss72 - apology accepted -- sometimes the written word just doesn't communicate what we mean :)

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by adgal, Sep 28, 2009
This is particularly scary to me.  I will be in my third trimester of pregnancy at the peak of flu season and I work directly with the homeless, many of whom tend to have compromised immune systems and  tend to be more vulnerable to illness.  I have consulted with my OB and with our pandemic planning committee (consisting of Dr's who work hand in hand with our city and provincial pandemic planning commitees's) and all are recommending I get the H1N1 vaccine.  I feel fairly comfortable with the minor risk associated with the vaccine compared to the major risk should I contract this flu. My primary concern right now is whether or not to also get the regular flu vaccine (I typically do every year).  There is apparantly some new research indicating that if you get the regular flu vaccine (it will be made available to us at work in the next few weeks, several weeks before H1N1 vaccine) that you are more likely to get H1N1.  I would love to hear your thoughts on this Dr. Choi.  Also, my baby is due in January...will me getting the vaccine protect him once he is born?

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by PlateletGal, Sep 28, 2009
Dr. Choi... is this true ?

"According to the CDC, the majority of flu vaccines contain thimerosal. Some contain as much as 25 mcg of mercury per dose. This means that it may contain more than 250 times the Environmental Protection Agency’s safety limit for mercury."

source: http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/09/26/Flu-Vaccine-Exposed.aspx



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by Enoch Choi, MDBlank, Sep 28, 2009
I'm not aware of any increased risk of getting H1N1 if you get the regular flu vaccine first.  I just got my flu shot today.

I don't know about other's flu shots, but PAMF's are all thimerosal free.  Thimerosal has not been proven to cause any illness.

I just got my seasonal flu shot, PAMF immunized > 2800 yesterday http://pamf.org/flu/vaccine.html

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by Tammy2009, Sep 28, 2009
Would it be really necessary to get a flu shot if you are really healthy and don't get the flu?  I'm 21 and I've only had the flu once and that was from sharing a drink with someone who developed symptoms that night.  She ended up in the hosiptal for 3 days, off work for 3 weeks and I had minor aches/pains and low grade fever for 4 days; she got tested for H1N1 but it turned out to be a more virulent strain.  

Obviously I'm healthy and can fight the virus myself.  Is it honestly necessary?  

I do have asthma/reactive airways and colds do sit in my chest and make me cough for 4 weeks after I recover (and this was before I was diagnosed) but the flu I had took less time for me to recover from than a typical cold.  

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by Enoch Choi, MDBlank, Sep 28, 2009
Tammy2009, it is recommended for all Americans, and especially helpful for those with lung disease.

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by Tammy2009, Sep 28, 2009
Ahhh but I am Canadian ;)  I still have to think whether I'll get it or not ..... bah stupid flu viruses

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by adgal, Sep 28, 2009
Hi Dr. Choi.  It has been on the news here just the last few days (I live in Calgary, Canada).  It is not flawless research for sure, but they are saying there is an increase in H1N1 cases in those that had the flu shot (I am assuming those that had it last year).  Of course, given that the flu shot is made readily available here and just about everyone gets it (at least everyone I know), that would sort of make sense.  I am not sure if this was a study done internationally or not.  Anyway, I have made up my mind, I am getting both.  I still feel the minor risk associated with the vaccine outweighs the risk of getting the flu while pregnant. I saw my OB today again, and she feels strongly I should have both.  

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by Linzola1, Sep 29, 2009
Hello.... I have a son who is 15 months with a bicuspid aeortic valve.He is in the highrisk age group, but my husband is 23 and I am 21 and not in college and very healthy w/o and high risk factors!! My question is will the benifits outweigh the risks for my son? Also do you reccomend that we as parents of a higher risk child get it if it becomes available.

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by Enoch Choi, MDBlank, Sep 29, 2009
Linzola1, feel free to ask me on my webchat:
http://www.medhelp.org/health_chats/register/34

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by ChitChatNine, Sep 29, 2009
I just saw on the news this morning that BC Blue Shield of NJ will cover the cost for their insured ... what do you think most insurance companies are going to do?

If insurance won't cover the vaccine, aproximately how much will it cost out of pocket?  I was shocked to see the cost of the Meningitis shot my daughter got was in the low $100 figure but insurance covered it.

Any ideas?  Anybody know?

C~

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by ginsa, Sep 29, 2009
My daughter is a pharmacy tech and is 7 mos. pregnant. Would that put her in a high risk category? I would think so since sick people abound at the pharmacy counter.

I've heard that thimerosal will be in multi-dose vials to prevent contamination of the vial, but that single-dose vials will be thimerosal free. I've also heard that Squaline, although not an additive in current supply, will likely be added later to stretch the supply to meet demand. Anything to this?

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by fvf147, Sep 29, 2009
"by gss72, Sep 27, 2009 12:01PM .Don't take that shot!!! Look into what is in it and what it does. H1N1 was made in a LAB, the World Health Organization hs admitted this. Many more get sick and even die from the shot than the flu, which incidently, the regular flu kills more than the engineered H1N1. Look up what happened at fort Dix in 1976. Research why health care workers are refusing the shot (because they knowwhat's in it) getting fired (illegally) for it. Look into how many people get guillain barre from the shot. If you don't know what that is, LOOK IT UP. It's a debilitating neurological disease. Don't believe me, do the reasearch yourself, then make up your mind. "



Stop trying to scare people!  When the vaccine comes out there will be those that are Thimerosal free and the US vaccines will be adjuvant free.  You need to get your facts straight about 1976.  45 MILLION people were vaccinated - 500 contracted guillain barre and 25 died.  All life is precious and has worth and value, but out of 45 Million people that is not enough for people to use 1976 as a tool to scare people.

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by fvf147, Sep 29, 2009
"by Tammy2009, Sep 28, 2009 03:58PM .Would it be really necessary to get a flu shot if you are really healthy and don't get the flu?  I'm 21 and I've only had the flu once and that was from sharing a drink with someone who developed symptoms that night.  She ended up in the hosiptal for 3 days, off work for 3 weeks and I had minor aches/pains and low grade fever for 4 days; she got tested for H1N1 but it turned out to be a more virulent strain.  

Obviously I'm healthy and can fight the virus myself.  Is it honestly necessary?  

I do have asthma/reactive airways and colds do sit in my chest and make me cough for 4 weeks after I recover (and this was before I was diagnosed) but the flu I had took less time for me to recover from than a typical cold."


The difference between seasonal flu and H1N1 is that it's targeting the younger population and pretty much leaving senior adults alone.



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by fvf147, Sep 29, 2009
"by adgal, Sep 28, 2009 11:04PM .Hi Dr. Choi.  It has been on the news here just the last few days (I live in Calgary, Canada).  It is not flawless research for sure, but they are saying there is an increase in H1N1 cases in those that had the flu shot (I am assuming those that had it last year).  Of course, given that the flu shot is made readily available here and just about everyone gets it (at least everyone I know), that would sort of make sense.  I am not sure if this was a study done internationally or not.  Anyway, I have made up my mind, I am getting both.  I still feel the minor risk associated with the vaccine outweighs the risk of getting the flu while pregnant. I saw my OB today again, and she feels strongly I should have both.   "


I have read these articles as well.  While not fully understanding the risk, I did hear an interview with a dr saying that if it were possible to space out the two vaccines, seasonal flu shot first then h1n1 perferably 1 month later.  He said the risk was when given too close together the immune response of the h1n1 might be canceled out by the seasonal flu shot because they are made the exact same way, same ingredients, except for the virus type, but he said if no other option is available ie, if you'd have to wait longer for the h1n1 then go ahead and get them both, but since the h1n1 is not out yet it would be best to run out and get the seasonal flu shot now and that way there will be some time in between.



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by fvf147, Sep 29, 2009
by ChitChatNine, 4 hours ago .I just saw on the news this morning that BC Blue Shield of NJ will cover the cost for their insured ... what do you think most insurance companies are going to do?

If insurance won't cover the vaccine, aproximately how much will it cost out of pocket?  I was shocked to see the cost of the Meningitis shot my daughter got was in the low $100 figure but insurance covered it.

Any ideas?  Anybody know?

C~


The Vaccine is free, the government bought it all with tax payer money.  Dr's offices and pharmacies and other places might charge an administration fee for their time and processing, but I do not know if insurance will cover this, my guess is yes.

Avatar_f_tn
by fvf147, Sep 29, 2009
by ginsa, 4 hours ago .My daughter is a pharmacy tech and is 7 mos. pregnant. Would that put her in a high risk category? I would think so since sick people abound at the pharmacy counter.

I've heard that thimerosal will be in multi-dose vials to prevent contamination of the vial, but that single-dose vials will be thimerosal free. I've also heard that Squaline, although not an additive in current supply, will likely be added later to stretch the supply to meet demand. Anything to this?


Yes, your daughter is at risk because of her pregnancy and her job, but she should consult her OB/GYN to see what they are recommending.  The H1N1 virus has been very hard on pregnant women that is why they are at the top of the priority list.  

US vaccines will not have adjuvants in them.

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by gss72, Sep 29, 2009
Province may suspend flu shots after vaccine's safety questioned


Canwest News ServiceSeptember 28, 2009
  
B.C. might suspend the seasonal flu shots as early as today, in the wake of a Canadian study that suggests people who get the flu vaccine are twice as likely to contract the H1N1 virus.

Several news outlets reported the preliminary findings of the study, which is still under peer review. Researchers found that those who received the seasonal flu vaccine in the past were more likely to catch H1N1.

While the research was initially met with much skepticism from health officials, several provinces, including Quebec, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Ontario and Nova Scotia, have suspended seasonal flu shots for anyone younger than 65, the Globe and Mail newspaper is reporting in its Monday editions.

The B.C. Ministry of Healthy Living and Sport is holding a news conference today at 9:30 a.m. to make what is billed as "an announcement around B.C.'s seasonal flu vaccine campaign."

Jeff Rudd, ministry spokesman, would not confirm whether minister Ida Chong will announce a suspension of the vaccine.

© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun

**fvf147**, Do not accuse me of trying to scare people. I stated quite plainly that I am bringing these things out for the benefit of anyone who is thinking about getting the shot. There are PLENTY of DOCUMENTED dangers with these vaccines and obviously many many facts you are unaware of. I said people shouldn't believe me, go and look into it yourself. If it wasn't a concern that is sweeping the world, and I do mean the world, I wouldn't bring it up at all. It's already documented that there are adjuvants in at least SOME of the vaccines. There have been documented cases in the past where they find cancer viruses planted in vaccines among other "harmless" things like mercury. I would like to know why (I believe it was Baxter) had the patent for this flu shot, geared to this flu that the WHO admits quietly is man made. Where did they get their information from? I care about people. You included. If there is a danger, don't I owe it to you and everyone to make sure we are at least INFORMED? Give me a break. To insinuate that I am fear mongering is insulting. I'm a family man with nothing to gain, no money to be made off of bringing these things to peoples' attention. It's just a simple fact, like it or not, that there are many issues in the mainstream media not brought to the publics' attention. I apologise if I have offended you in any way, but it's YOUR safety I'm concerned with. I'm quite offended by what you said about me. Everyone, just research the issue. The virus itself isn't that deadly, yet people are getting fired for not being vaccinated. Against their constitutional rights. American constitutional rights and Canadian. I am Canadian myself. The fact is, we're all human beings who should look out for one another.

Bless you all. Stay informed. Reading is much more beneficial than watching TV anyways. haha.
gss72    

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by gss72, Sep 29, 2009
**fvf147**, sorry, one last thing. You wouldn't be downplaying the deaths of those who contracted guillain barre if it was someone you loved who died from it would you? What about the others that had the rest of their lives ruined by this disease they never should have contracted at the hands of irresponsible pharmaceutical companies. I don't have to wait until someone dear to me passes on or gets crippled before springing into action. We can no longer afford that level of apathy.
gss72
PS, look at this article.

A warning that the new swine flu jab is linked to a deadly nerve disease has been sent by the Government to senior neurologists in a confidential letter.
The letter from the Health Protection Agency, the official body that oversees public health, has been leaked to The Mail on Sunday, leading to demands to know why the information has not been given to the public before the vaccination of millions of people, including children, begins.

It tells the neurologists that they must be alert for an increase in a brain disorder called Guillain-Barre Syndrome (GBS), which could be triggered by the vaccine.
GBS attacks the lining of the nerves, causing paralysis and inability to breathe, and can be fatal.

The letter, sent to about 600 neurologists on July 29, is the first sign that there is concern at the highest levels that the vaccine itself could cause serious complications.
It refers to the use of a similar swine flu vaccine in the United States in 1976 when:

More people died from the vaccination than from swine flu.
500 cases of GBS were detected.
The vaccine may have increased the risk of contracting GBS by eight times.
The vaccine was withdrawn after just ten weeks when the link with GBS became clear.
The US Government was forced to pay out millions of dollars to those affected.
Concerns have already been raised that the new vaccine has not been sufficiently tested and that the effects, especially on children, are unknown.
It is being developed by pharmaceutical companies and will be given to about 13million people during the first wave of immunisation, expected to start in October.
Top priority will be given to everyone aged six months to 65 with an underlying health problem, pregnant women and health professionals.
The British Neurological Surveillance Unit (BNSU), part of the British Association of Neurologists, has been asked to monitor closely any cases of GBS as the vaccine is rolled out.
One senior neurologist said last night: ‘I would not have the swine
flu jab because of the GBS risk.’

There are concerns that there could be a repeat of what became known as the ‘1976 debacle’ in the US, where a swine flu vaccine killed 25 people – more than the virus itself.
A mass vaccination was given the go-ahead by President Gerald Ford because scientists believed that the swine flu strain was similar to the one responsible for the 1918-19 pandemic, which killed half a million Americans and 20million people worldwide.


Within days, symptoms of GBS were reported among those who had been immunised and 25 people died from respiratory failure after severe paralysis. One in 80,000 people came down with the condition. In contrast, just one person died of swine flu.

More than 40million Americans had received the vaccine by the time the programme was stopped after ten weeks. The US Government paid out millions of dollars in compensation to those affected.

The swine flu virus in the new vaccine is a slightly different strain from the 1976 virus, but the possibility of an increased incidence of GBS remains a concern.

Shadow health spokesman Mike Penning said last night: ‘The last thing we want is secret letters handed around experts within the NHS. We need a vaccine but we also need to know about potential risks.

‘Our job is to make sure that the public knows what’s going on. Why
is the Government not being open about this? It’s also very worrying if GPs, who will be administering the vaccine, aren’t being warned.’

Two letters were posted together to neurologists advising them of the concerns. The first, dated July 29, was written by Professor Elizabeth Miller, head of the HPA’s Immunisation Department.
It says: ‘The vaccines used to combat an expected swine influenza pandemic in 1976 were shown to be associated with GBS and were withdrawn from use.

‘GBS has been identified as a condition needing enhanced surveillance when the swine flu vaccines are rolled out.
‘Reporting every case of GBS irrespective of vaccination or disease history is essential for conducting robust epidemiological analyses capable of identifying whether there is an increased risk of GBS in defined time periods after vaccination, or after influenza itself, compared with the background risk.’

The second letter, dated July 27, is from the Association of British Neurologists and is written by Dr Rustam Al-Shahi Salman, chair of its surveillance unit, and Professor Patrick Chinnery, chair of its clinical research committee.

***There is still risk today of the same things and possibly worse happening. (gss72)...........

Check out the rest of the article here:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1206807/Swine-flu-jab-link-killer-nerve-disease-Leaked-letter-reveals-concern-neurologists-25-deaths-America.html

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by Tammy2009, Sep 29, 2009
The only point to remember is that there are other flu strains that are more severe and a higher likelyhood of killing you than H1N1.  So would you rather be protected against many strains, or one strain (H1N1).  

The other question I have is how can a vaccine NOT be man-made?  It's not like there are tree out there growing little vials of vaccines ....

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by adgal, Sep 29, 2009
Being that I work for an organization that serves the homeless and have a full medical clinic geared towards their needs, we are obviously working on an intensive pandemic plan.  We met this afternoon and I was able to ask about the regular flu shot and the study done showing their MAY be an increased risk in getting H1N1.  I was also able to ask about some of the other risks associated with the flu shot.  Keep in mind this committee is made up of Dr.'s as well as lay people (like myself) and is working very very closely with both federal and provincial committees.  Here is the information I was given:

With regards to the study linking the regular flu vaccine to an increased risk in getting H1N1.  This study is being met with a fair amount of skeptiscism (sorry, my spelling is terrible I know) by the medical community.  It has not been peer reviewed.  It is however being looked at carefully to see if there is any validity to it.  They are recommending as fv147 said....get the two shots a month apart.  Here in Calgary the regular flu vaccine should be available in about 2 weeks, the H1N1 in about a month and a half.  That is how I personally am going to have them.  App. 4 weeks apart.

As to the illness and side effects linked to the flu vaccine.  The reality is that with any vaccine, medication or medical treatment there is always an element of risk. No matter what the treatment some will adversely react. Again, I have to agree with fv147 that it is a fairly small population that has had trouble with the vaccines vs. the amount of lives that have probably been saved by having it available.  You have to weigh the benefits against the risk and make the decision that is right for you. Any surgery, even the most minor comes with risk.  However, I would still choose to have emergency surgery over not if my Dr. felt it was necessary to save my life.  Life is just like that...look at the amount of lives wearing seatbelts in a car has saved, yet there are also a small group of people who have been more severely injured or even killed from wearing them.  There is never 100% certainty in anything.

In my personal situation it is almost for certain I will be exposed to the flu and H1N1. I am no longer making decisions just for myself, but for my baby.  After asking a tonne of questions and researching to the best of my ability, it seems having both these vaccines is what is best for me.  The small element of risk in getting these vaccines is outweighed by the larger risk of getting H1N1 while in my third trimester of pregnancy.  This was a good blog, thanks Dr. Choi.

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by gss72, Sep 29, 2009
Tammy, of course the vaccine is man made, the point is, it's the VIRUS that's man made.

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by Enoch Choi, MDBlank, Sep 29, 2009
ginsa, yes, she's high risk

fvf147, thanks for all of the great comments

gss72, you are spreading lies, there is no data yet on the current H1N1 vaccine since studies on safety are just starting now

Tammy2009, thanks!

adgal, bless you for your care of the homeless.  I too would rather take the risk of H1N1 vaccination rather than the definite illness possibly with H1N1 infection.  Thanks for the props!

Come join my live HealthChat on Tuesday, October 20 at Noon EST! You can register here and ask questions LIVE: http://www.medhelp.org/health_chats/register/34

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by gss72, Sep 29, 2009
If you say so doc. Here's another thought. IF the safety studies are only starting now, why are they vaccinating people already? The proof is out there for people who are willing to find it. No one will say anything about the fact that this is a man made virus. The implications of that are just horrible. Sometimes there is no getting through to people. I've provided some of the proof already, I don't have the time to hold peoples hands through this. All I wanted to do was bring some concerns to public attention. I wouldn't make claims like that if I hadn't done the research and seen documents myself. There's so much that people have to wake up to. I don't need to be called a liar by you. Those who don't want to take the time can take their own chances. There are SO many documented examples of professionals who push the vaccines, to the general public but REFUSE to take them themselves. Why? Don't believe something is safe just because someone in a suit or a white coat tell you it is. This is more about profits for the big pharmceutical companies than people. Tell me doc, how much do you get for every vaccine you give a person? I can't believe this. I just posted a partial article with a link to the rest of it backing up much of what I've told everyone. And I'm a liar? What do I personally have to gain from this? Nothing. What I've said is true. My motivations are honest. Not once did I say just believe me, don't take the shot. I'm done. I hope that at least SOME people will be proactive enough to do their part  in protecting themselves.

PS. I have a friend who in U.S. federal law. He's retired now. He found a treatment for Colon cancer in Stockhom that CURED him. CURED HIM. Both he and his beloved wife had the same affliction. Because it was a new treatment, they decided as a couple that he would take the treatment first. His wife was deteriorating and he was prepared to start his wife on the treatment (which was hundreds of thousandsof dollars) but by that time, Lily Pharmaceuticals bought the rights to the treatment and KILLED it. Buried it. I've seen his receipts. He showed me the medical records. His wife DIED because the industry doesn't make money off of people who aren't sick. My friend, who is in his mid to late 60's now is a DAMN good man. He used to hunt down corrupt government officials and criminals all over the world. He's as credible as they come and he showed me proof of everything he said. I learned alot from that man and have the highest respect for him and sorrow for his loss. SO don't you DARE call me a liar just because YOU haven't seen the facts yet or choose to ignore them. I have more integrity than to come onto a site like this and just start spewing a bunch of ****.
My best to all.

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by adgal, Sep 29, 2009
Gss, here is my question to you....let's say this virus is man made. Does that mean I should not protect myself against it?  I have explained my personal situation...what do you propose as my alternative?  You say to protect myself.  I am at very high risk both for exposure and for serious complications should I actually get it.  You are talking about all the risks and yes, there is an element of risk, just as there is with any medication or vaccine. However, what is the alternative?  I still believe that for me, the risk associated with the vaccine is far less then the risk in getting this virus.  

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by Dallasfan, Sep 30, 2009
Dr. Choi, Thank for a great post. This flu season will indeed be a great challenge for everyone. Just for gss..there has never been a manmade virus. This unfortunate information has been circling for some time. Hope everyone stays well.

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by PlateletGal, Sep 30, 2009
Dallasfan,

There have been many man made viruses. In fact, here is a link to an article about a man-made virus that appparently killed cancer in tests:

http://www.wellesley.edu/Chemistry/chem227/nucleicfunction/cancer/051998sci-cancer-cold.html

http://www.nytimes.com/1998/05/19/us/genetically-altered-virus-kills-some-cancer-cells-in-tests.html

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by PlateletGal, Sep 30, 2009
N.Y. health care workers protest mandatory H1N1 flu shots

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2009-09-29-swine-flu-mandatory_N.htm

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by Dallasfan, Sep 30, 2009
To plateletgal :There are no man made viruses. The sources you cite discuss the ONYX labs work with the ONYX altered adenovirus designated dl1520 that was chemically altered to not express the protein E1B55kDalton protein. The headline you read that states "Man Made Virus" is more attention getting than scientifically accurate. It is interesting in that this virus is being studied in treatment of head and neck cancers. I also ask, what has this to do with vaccination for H1N1 ?? To GSS the H1N1 vacine will be released next week first in Texas , then for the rest of the country. And I am sorry you are misinformed also. Take care.

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by Enoch Choi, MDBlank, Sep 30, 2009
I'll answer all of these questions and more if you come join my live HealthChat on Tuesday, October 20 at Noon EST! You can register here and ask questions LIVE: http://www.medhelp.org/health_chats/register/34

It's not man made, it mutated from a pig virus.  It spread from pigs.  It wasn't made in a lab.

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by PlateletGal, Sep 30, 2009
I don't necessarily believe that the Swine flu virus was man made, but I do know that there are man made viruses and bacterias.  ; ^)



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by Tammy2009, Sep 30, 2009
It's hard to draw the line at what is man-made and not.  If it is not man-made because we only added a gene or two into it, what about the cases (too lazy to search pub-med for actual experiments) when (or if) we "made" a virus but picking and choosing different genes from many viruses and picking them all together?  Is that man-made?  The pieces themselves are natural but they never would of came together in that manner to make the virus we pieced together.  

We like playing with everything we touch.  If a virus is man-made because we altered it then all domesticated animals and plants are in turn also man-made.  We play with which animals/plants we want to use the genetic material from and thus slowly piece and change the organism itself.  You really think it is "natural" to have an english bulldog?  They can't even have sex or properly deliver babies by themselves.  

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by Dallasfan, Oct 01, 2009
This will be my last entry on this post. I REALLY want to clarify that the concept of putting bits and pieces of DNA/RNA together to construct a new or novel bacteria or virus, has NEVER been done. PLEASE lets put this concept to rest.

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by Qasar, Oct 01, 2009
It is amazing to me that Dr. Choi would urge people to be "vaccinated" for swine flu. I believe that a nasal spray will be used, in some cases, that contains live swine flu viruses. Are you aware, Dr. Choi, that for 21 days after administering this live virus into the nose, that person becomes a carrier and spreader of the virus? It's called "shedding."

And the medical community will then have guaranteed to have created the pandemic they've been howling about. They will have set loose millions of virus carriers.

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by Lanie46, Oct 01, 2009
Dear Dr. Choi:
Can Clorox Wipes (which indicate that they kill 99% flu virus) kill H1N1 on surfaces along with virucidal product such as CavicideTM or Caviwipes XLTM?

Please let me know.

Thanks.


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by swampcritter, Oct 01, 2009
Humans can make some limited DNA changes to an existing organism, and can encourage the development of traits through breeding. But that is a far cry from creating a new organism.


As for HIV -- its been found in blood from the 1920s, so unless someone invented a time machine, there isn't any way it could have been created by humans.


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by Nucuru, Oct 01, 2009
Dear Agdal,

I certainly don't want to make you more nervous about this, but since I have this information, I thought I'd share it with you.  Since you are pregnant, I'm going to paste in something that was sent recently to the faculty of a University in the Northwest.

"For those who encounter complications—those with asthma or pregnant women, for example—the impact of H1N1 can be  devastating.  This past summer one of our students, a pregnant woman, contracted H1N1.  Here is what happened to her:   She was hospitalized in the Intensive Care Unit for no less than 45 days with complications from H1N1.  She was on life support for 30 days, and although she has survived, the seriousness of the virus for vulnerable members of our community cannot  be underestimated.  The student was pregnant and her child had to be delivered C-section before full term, creating further challenges for this young woman, her husband, and her family."

I am someone who, I assume would qualify as high risk. I have a lung disease (bronchiolitis obliterans) and Rheumatoid Arthritis.  I plan on getting the vaccine when as soon as it's available.

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by purplefox, Oct 02, 2009
purplefox

I am a grand-mother of an almost 6 yr. old.  She is VERY tiny.  She just started school this year.  She's never been around other kids, because we live in a remote area.  She made it the first 2 days of school, and then got a cold.  She missed 2 days, but her teacher called our house and told us if she has a runny nose or cough, keep her home.  Well, she had a runny nose and cough for the next week, so we kept her home.  She went back to school and lasted 3 days before the cough got so bad, that she threw-up at least 3X, so we kept her home--again.  She went back, yet again, and all it took was 2 days back in class, and one damp cold day playing outside at recess and she started running a fever and her cough got worse.  We took her to the dr. and now she is on antibiotics.  She has always been very small.  There is nothing wrong with her, we had all the testing done, she's just small.  Per her pediatrician's advice, she eats every 2 hours.  She's always been very healthy and if she got the sniffles once a year, it only lasted a few days.  She eats good and she eats healthy, her mother see's to that.  I am scared to death to get her the shot for the flu!!  I don't know why, but it just gives me a very bad feeling.  I know that man isn't perfect and mistakes are bound to happen, but I just don't believe in flu shots--let alone ones for children.  So many things can go wrong!!  My sister's niece had a perfectly healthy normal 3 mo. old baby girl.  She went in to get her immunizations, and immediately following, she got very ill and had severe brain damage.  She only lived until she was 10 yrs. old.  It was very, very sad.  I know that I--and I speak for my daughter also--couldn't LIVE with ourselves if we got her the shot and something happened.  I realize that there will be thousands of children who will get this shot, and they won't have any kind of reaction, but for the percentage of children who WILL have a bad reaction, my heart goes out to those parents who decided to get their children the shots.
It should be up to each parent whether their child gets the vaccine.  It is probably not dangerous at all to some, but I speak for my family and we are opting to NOT get one.   I wouldn't put anyone down for deciding to get the shot, and I would appreciate it if everyone would respect my decision.  I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, not by any means.  I just wanted to give my opinion and ask that everyone RESPECT the rights and decisions of others pertaining to this controversial--if I may call it that--subject.

Praying that All children stay healthy and safe~

purplefox

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by ebrigham, Oct 02, 2009
Dr Choi,

I live in Belgium, and since April we have had 2 death cases related to H1N1 infection. That is 2 death cases in six months time.
Do you know what the yearly casualty number due to seasonal flue infection is in Belgium? 1500
How many people have died in Belgium to date due to H1N1 flue infection? 2
Do you know what is the statistical death toll due to seasonal flue infection world wide? Approximately 500.000.
How many people have died worldwide to date due to H1N1 flue infections? 4806

I find you a very irresponsible man. You as a doctor knows better than anyone that the more shots we take to prevent Flue infections(any kind) the less antibodies we produce to fight them. We are increasingly becoming dependant on flue shoots because our bodies cannot defend themselves.

You should be advising people to eat healthy, do sports regularly, anything that can improve one's resistance to flue viruses... You should be advising people to let their antibodies do the work that they have been designed for, not cripple them.

Increasingly in Europe doctors are becoming increasingly skeptical to even administer antibiotics as they are seeing first hand the effects of the 1980's and 1990's antibiotics mass comsumption. They now only administer antibiotics as last case, and only if really needed.

you should be ashamed of yourself!
PS.:I wonder if you have bought market shares of the Pharmaceutical Companies who are producing such shots and tablets(Tamilflu)

Eduardo

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by adgal, Oct 02, 2009
Obviously this subject brings out strong emotions for many.  I have a bit of a problem with anyone (other then a medical Dr.) being so hard on those choosing to have this vaccination.  Most of us these days have access to information and are capable of making a good decision for ourselves and our children.  Will some have adverse reactions to this vaccine?  No doubt about it. I don't think there is a medication or vaccine out there with no negative side effects for some.  Should we all work harder on our overall health?  Absolutely.  However there are those with underlying conditions that put them at greater risk should they catch this, or any other flu.  Pregnancy is one of those conditions, and there are many more.  If you are choosing to not vaccinate yourself and your children, that is your decision.  Someone said that they hope the parents that choose to vaccinate their children can live with themselves.  The opposite can also be said.  I am standing firm in my decision to have this vaccination to protect myself and my unborn baby.  I don't feel it matters if it is man made or not (although I can't say I believe it is).  To accuse Dr. Choi of unethical practice is really not fair either.  I have had several opinions from different Dr.'s, and all are advising me the same way, have the vaccine.  So you are saying that they all bought shares?  That none of them care about mine or my babies health and are advising me this way for the money?  I somehow doubt it.  Look how many people died from various diseases prior to vaccines being available...certain viruses and diseases have all been basically wiped out because of these vaccines.  Do what you choose and think is best, but leave those of us who's decision is different alone.

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by ebrigham, Oct 02, 2009
My post was not directed to you or anyone who decides to take the shot, if, they did so AFTER informing themselves PROPERLY! Not because I have MD behind my name and I say so.
I have a 2 year old daughter as well, and as a concerned parent, I will choose NOT to give the shot. That is my decision.
I am more concerned about the seasonal flue than the H1N1 virus. Why? Because the mortality rate is staggeringly higher! The seasonal viruses keep on getting stronger and stronger because of the mutations they suffer from the shots that people are taking every year to fight them. That truly worries me.

eduardo

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by mearns, Oct 02, 2009
I live in Scotland and I had  my seasonal flu jab today and my GP hopes to have swine flu vaccine in about 2 weeks time.  I am over 65 and as a little girl - nearly died with measles - and a very bad case of whooping cough left me vulnerable to flu EVERY year - in those days no antibiotics and I remember always being given M & B tablets - never knew what they were only that they made my head so terribly sore.   Asian Flu hit me when I was 9 years old - and the Doctor came to the house twice a day when I was really bad - and the little boy across the road, who was only 6, died of it.  So, since the age of 60 I have been given the flu vaccine and, thankfully, I have not had flu since.  I do eat healthy meals and am very active, but all these flu attacks (and the loss of my tonsils when I was 19) has left me with a weak chest which puts me on the "at risk" list.   My husband worked for a pharmaceutical company and produced pennicillin - the formula was changed regularly so we did not build up immunity to it, but my doctor only prescribes it when absolutely necessary.

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by collegemom39, Oct 02, 2009
I am a 39 year-old-female.  I have four school age children and have recently gone back to college.  My oldest daugher, who is in high school was sent home three weeks ago with a fever and was sick for four days.  About a week later, I started getting the same symptoms, fever, chills, cough, sore throat, body aches etc.  I had these symptoms for at least 10 days and have missed three weeks of classes at college.  Yesterday,- after being on antibiotics that the doctor prescribed when I called in with complaints of added earaches to the rest of my symptoms - I started getting a tightness in the middle of my chest and also in my rib cage and I feel like I'm having a hard time getting enough air.  The pressure and feeling of "water in my ears" has not gone away even while being on Zithromax for the third day.  I'm getting concerned about missing so much college since my attendance is crucial  and each class is only once a week.  Any suggestions?

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by madgeOwens, Oct 02, 2009
If I remember correctly back in the 70s there was some problem with the innoculation caussing some kind of neuro problem?  Also a month or so ago I read an article whereby the new vaccine had some safety problems...I read there were 20 some deaths, but I tried to go back and find the story and its no where to be found............now thats very weird....I read it on Drudge Report I think.

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by Color, Oct 02, 2009
i am asking  dr. choi- i am a 60 yr old female who has chronic inflammatory demeliating polyneurophy(autoimmune disorder). what is your opion about taking the shot? i very very rarely get the seasonal flu. thank you

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by gss72, Oct 03, 2009
I was looking at a site called flumist.com and was wondering why they have a nasal "vaccination" for the regular flu that contains H1N1 in it. With these types of "vaccinations" you can soread whatever is in it for 6 months after you use the product. Looks like you're on to something Qasar. Thoughts? Explanations?
http://www.medimmune.com/pdf/products/flumist_pi.pdf
This is the link to the product information.

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by joggen, Oct 03, 2009
ebrigham/eduardo:

If you don't want to vaccinate your daughter then that is your decision, but please stop spreading pseudoscientific BS about vaccinations. You obviously have NO understanding of immunology whatsoever.



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by margypops, Oct 03, 2009
In the end it comes back to a personal choice its a hard choice when you are pregnant and I sympathise, but I have read all your posts and I do agree with Gss and ebringham , I havent had a flu shot for years ,the last time I got it I was so sick I didnt think I would recover, so I will take my chances,  it sure it has been  hyped up, wondering if big Pharma had a hand in that more money for them, , and although I hear its pandemic I also hear the symptoms are nothing as bad as regular flu, good luck all it will in interesting feedback when we have got through it.

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by Teak, Oct 03, 2009
Those that have HIV/AIDS need to wait till the injection vaccine with non live virus come out. They will follow about three weeks after the nasal spray live virus vaccine comes out.

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by PlateletGal, Oct 03, 2009
Teak,

It is interesting that you say that because many Chronic Fatigue Immune Dysfunction Syndrome patients, such as myself, cannot tolerate vaccinations and risk relapse if we have a vaccine. Not to mention.... that studies have been done because some CFS patients ended up ill after vaccinations.

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by SueYoung55, Oct 03, 2009
It's been an interesting two weeks. Went to the doctor with 102.8 fever, diarreah, no appetite in 3 days, hugely swollen glands, body aches, cough and congestion in the chest. She did nasal swab and said it's not flu. Everyone I came in contact with the first day I started with the cough has come down with this. I stayed out of work for 7 days. Six days into this the fever broke and the body aches subsided. It was as if water were pouring out of every pore of my body when the fever broke. Swollen glands, cough and congestion and diarreah still continue. I've now got laryngitis to go with fatigue.My immune system has been compromised by chemo and rads for breast cancer. I also have hashimoto's and COPD (normally get pnuemonia or bronchitis with every respiratory illness but have had the pnuemonia shot in last 3 years).

I am scheduled to get my regular flu shot this week since she wouldn't give me one when I was running the fever. Dr. Choi, is it possible what I had/have is swine flu? Could the nasal swab be wrong? And if this is swine flu, do I still need to get the H1N1 vaccine when it comes out? Is it possible I'm still contagious with this cough?

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by ready2talk2000, Oct 04, 2009
Wow, alot of intense comments here and sounding mostly based on emotional, including doctors and average people.  Is it possible to discuss what "might" happen without calling each other liars.  I choose to assume that people who post here are actually people who believe their information will help.  I normally investigate information before I believe it.  Thus I don't tell someone they are a liar out of emotion, nor do I accept what is said simply because I read their post.  Let's show a little maturity and personal responsibility for our comments and beliefs, shall we?

Good luck to everyone in being able to tell what is and isn't true.  In this day and time, society is governed mostly "unforatunately" by money.  Most news reports are taylored to tell us what we are supposed to hear.  It is a very difficult time in history to separate fact from fiction.  Almost impossible to know who to trust and who not to trust.

So, the best you can do is research things until you feel one way or the other about it.  Then do what you feel is best for YOU.  Hopefully you have a personal doctor who's opinion you value and who you feel you can trust as having your best interest at heart.  Other than that, pray and follow your own heart/mind and don't be criticized or humiliated into taking the H1N1 shot or not taking it.  That is not what the choice should be about.

Best of luck to everyone!  Time will tell what is real and what isn't.  God Bless!

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by Joey999, Oct 05, 2009
I got a seasonal flu shot 3-4 weeks ago.  Now I have contacted a cold (or flu?).  Tired, runny nose, slightly elevated temp (99.5 degrees).  Might what I have be the H1N1 variation?  How to tell w/o going to the doc (I don't have health insurance).

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by PlateletGal, Oct 05, 2009
Well said, ready2talk2000. Obviously there is reason to debate vaccinations and especially after we know that vaccinations can lead to a very serious autoimmune disease called Guillian Barre Syndrome.

http://www.whale.to/vaccines/gbs.htm

And not to mention other failures with vaccinations, including an experimental vaccine that was supposed to prevent HIV infection. Unfortunately, this research vaccination were told by MERCK that the experimental AIDS vaccine they had may have actually raised the risk of infection. (yikes!)

http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUSN1362317620071113?feedType=RSS&feedName=healthNews

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by PlateletGal, Oct 06, 2009
Something that caught my attention on Dr. Mercola's website this morning was that autism is not reported among Amish children who go unvaccinated. Interesting.


http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/10/06/Why-You-Should-NOT-Vaccinate-Your-Children-Against-the-Flu-This-Season.aspx

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by monkeymom13, Oct 06, 2009
Have children with a latex allergy can they get the H1N1 shot? They also have asthma.Monkeymom13


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by PlateletGal, Oct 08, 2009
Dr. Mercola just published the link to this article this morning on his website.  

David Kirby: New Study: Hepatitis B Vaccine Triples the Risk of Autism in Infant Boys

http://www.ageofautism.com/2009/09/david-kirby-new-study-hepatitis-b-vaccine-triples-the-risk-of-autism-in-infant-boys.html



Of course I'm not anti-vaccines (which some people may think). I support SAFER vaccinations and full consent must be instituted to all people who get vaccinations.

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by ccoyote38, Oct 08, 2009
Why get vaccinated against a flu that isn't even as bad as the seasonal flu?  Not to mention the brain toxic heavy metals like thermirasol (sic) that contains mercury, aluminum and squalene, linked to gulf war syndrome.  Go ahead roll up your sleeves and be guinea pigs!

In 1976 the Swine Flu vaccine killed more people than the disease!  But let's mainline mercury! Especially you pregnant ladies, we gotta have more autistic children in this country!

What the heck do you people think your immune system was invented for?

The seasonal flu kills 36,000 people a year WORLDWIDE! Only a few hundred deaths are in the USA.  This Swine flu has killed far less and most of the deaths have been in 3rd world countries!

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by Enoch Choi, MDBlank, Oct 08, 2009
I'll answer all of these questions and more if you come join my live HealthChat on Tuesday, October 20 at Noon EST! You can register here and ask questions LIVE: http://www.medhelp.org/health_chats/register/34

I will say that Dr. Mercola reports regularly on studies that are poorly designed which cannot prove what they proport to.

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by MDiv2009, Oct 09, 2009
It was ironic that I posted up above about the mask fitting and lack of vaccine availability here in Alaska...because I ended up with H1N1 just days later.  The hospital where I work was great to work with, when I called I was immediately directed to the flu hotline where they did a "triage" to see if symptoms matched, and when they did was immediately connected with our employee health division where I was again triaged and determined that I did most likely have H1N1...it was a very quick and efficient process.  They've followed the recommendations put out by the CDC and mandated that employees with ILI have to stay out the full 7 days from onset.  Hopefully it will contain the spread.

I have to say that from personal experience, it's quite an unpleasant illness.  It hit really fast and hard.  I was working an overnight shift and began noticing fatigue, slight headache and a scratchy throat around 1am, by 6am I had already called for someone to come in early so I could go home.  For the majority of the next 2.5 days or so I had a 102 fever along with all the other miseries that the flu brings.  Once the fever broke, things got better, though even with the 7 days being officially over, I'm definately not 100% yet.  I'm not sure if this strain has an affinity for the lungs or if it's my own history of asthma (exercise and allergy induced, but not bad enough to require preventative medications) but the symptom that continues to linger now is a horrible cough  

Bottom line:  I highly recommend getting the vaccine.

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by adgal, Oct 09, 2009
The problem is we don't know how bad this flu will get.  It's true that many of the cases so far have been mild, but personally, I don't want to risk it.  I have never had a problem with the seasonal flu vaccine, and I know the same protocols have been used.  As for the thermisol issue....the vaccines are available thermisol free.  As a pregnant women I will be opting for that choice.  And as for autism...there are no confirmed studies linking vaccines to autism.  It seems more likely that up until several years ago it went undiagnosed, just as many other conditions have.

This is what worries me about this whole issue...so much of what we are reading on the internet and seeing on TV is opinion.  There are those that see conspiracy at every turn.  I have heard everything from this being a terrorist plot to gov't population control. We cannot take everything we read as fact.  You need to do your research (following legitimate sources) and speak to medical professionals.  I have had several medical opinons and all are leaning the same way...get the vaccine.  Especially because I am pregnant and work in a field where I am almost certain to be exposed.  Weigh the risk vs. the benefit.  Try to avoid opinion and stick to the facts.  Good luck to all on whatever option they choose.

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by PlateletGal, Oct 10, 2009
adgal,

Well of course everything we read we cannot accept as a fact. But.. there are some legitimate studies linking vaccinations to health conditions and especially Guillian Barre Syndrome, which is an autoimmune disease and kills approximately 30% of its victims. Of course viruses can also cause GBS... but shouldn't people be aware of the risks involved with vaccinations ? As someone who cannot tolerate vaccinations.... I have insight that others may not share. I know that there are some vaccinations that can and do cause health problems in individuals. I've already been there and done that one myself.... unfortunately.

As far as the Gardasil vaccination... there have been dozens of deaths and some very young women who are now ill and will probably be chronically ill for the rest of their lives.

There is no reason why this shouldn't be discussed. We need to make informed decisions when it comes to vaccinations and in order to make an informed decision... one must look at all of the facts and both sides of the debate.

How about the big Swine flu scare in the 70s ? The vaccination had side effects and more people died from the vaccination than they did with the flu itself ! So we need to look at the mistakes made in the past before we decide what actions we need to take in the present or the future. Getting the vaccination is a personal decision, but there is no reason why people should be upset over this discussion.



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by peggy64, Oct 10, 2009
My grandfather died after taking the swine flu vaccine in 76. That is not opinion. I bet there are others here that have family members they lost as well. People did not associate them together back then.

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by peggy64, Oct 10, 2009
What I would like to know is how many of these that have died, took the vaccine. That has not been reported. And at this point, I doubt very seriously that the truth would be.

This vaccine is designed to decrease the population of the world. That is why our government has disengaged themselves from it, even if it becomes mandatory, they have a clause to keep themselves from partaking it. That should tell you something. If it is the end all they say it is, they should be examples and be the first in line.



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by PlateletGal, Oct 10, 2009
peggy64,

I'm sorry to hear about your grandfather's death. What interests me the most is people in New Zealand have less autism, allergies and asthma and guess what ? Less vaccinations as well ! And now I'm reading that there are no reported cases of autism in the Amish community. The government has already admitted that multiple vaccinations contributed to autism in one child... that fact cannot be disputed. And I have tons of other links on this and shared several in other discussions here in MedHelp on vaccinations.



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by PlateletGal, Oct 10, 2009

P.S. ~ We have two fibro MedHelp members who believe that the Swine flu vaccination from the 70s either caused or contributed to their illness.

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by Enoch Choi, MDBlank, Oct 10, 2009
I'll answer all of these questions and more if you come join my live HealthChat on Tuesday, October 20 at Noon EST! You can register here and ask questions LIVE: http://www.medhelp.org/health_chats/register/34

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by margypops, Oct 11, 2009
I too read the story of the Amish community and have wondered why they do not get Autism., My main experience is I was fortunate years ago to be turtoring a young boy, he had a baby brother , perfectly normal child, all was well until he was about 2 year old not many weeks after a vaccination, he started to be withdrawn the usually playful, social child would not focus, he had no eye contact,became aloof,  the only 2 things he had done was the Vaccination and he was taking daily Zertec for allergies. he has been diagnosed with Autism ..In 2000 I got the flu vaccination,we didnt have any flu around it was just the usual yearly vaccination ,  within 48 hours I was very sick... I thought I was recovering and then I got Pneumonia ...the Doctor agreed I hadnt had the Flu he said it must have been a 'reaction' to the vaccination.... I may just join your chat Dr Choi to hear more

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by adgal, Oct 11, 2009
Once again I have to say that there is not a medication or vaccine available anywhere that some do not have adverse reactions to.  Everything comes with potential side effects, no doubt about it.  If you have had an adverse reaction to a medication or drug then of course you shouldn't take it.  You always have to weigh risk vs. benefit.  Most have not had a problem with the seasonal flu vaccine.  The H1N1 vaccine has followed the same protocol and so there is a good chance it will the be the same.  You have to decide for yourself, but don't be scared into not taking it anymore then you would allow yourself into being scared to take it.  And that it's being used by gov't as a form of population control...come on.  So all the gov't's in the world have gotten together to form this big conspiracy??  I somehow doubt it.

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by peggy64, Oct 11, 2009
Doubt all you want.  Makes us feel better to not believe some horrible truth.  To much info out there to repudiate it.

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by Melissa0116, Oct 11, 2009
I will not be getting the H1N1 no matter what anyone says.  I will not put a vaccine in my body and into my baby that has only been tested for a couple of months.  And, only 1 month for pregnant women.  I already had H1N1, and it was not severe at all.  It was less severe than the regular flu.  I took the tamiflu and am now feeling great.  Everyone must make their own mind up on whether they should or should not get the vaccine.  As we all know, In America, It is a free country to decide what you may or may not want to do.  I choose not to put myself and baby at risk of something that has not been studied enough.  Their are way too many news stories good and bad out their and none of them seem to be the truth.  So, I will take my chances without the new vaccine.  And of course, that is my decision and you all have a right to determine your own decisions.  But, do not criticize others for giving opposing info. when noone truely knows the real truth behind the vaccine; not even doctors.  Sorry Dr. if that offends you but you cannot truely say that you know everything about this vaccine but what the AMA and CDC tells you.  The regular flu vaccine has been around for a very long time and that I would trust way more than this new vaccine.  But, again, I did not ever get the regular flu vaccine either.  I do not think I will now but again that is my decision and you all must make yours.  Thanks for all the info out their.  

Whomever said that GSS was scaring others about the new vaccine; we'll all that I have to say is that others on this site have also scared pregnant women and others into thinking that most pregnant women will die if they do not get the vaccine.  So, we all need to be very careful on what we do and say.  

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by April2, Oct 11, 2009
Melissa, if you've already had H1N1 (Swine flu) then you don't need the vaccine. That's the good news they told me since my son already has had it he doesn't need the vaccine now. Thank God. I didn't want to do it anyway.

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by margypops, Oct 11, 2009
So having said I am not no way having the shot, what do you think about the hand sanitizers do they help, most of the stores have them outside to clean your hands and cart handle, and I thought I would steer clear of going into the stores....what else should I do ?

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by peggy64, Oct 11, 2009
I love good ole vit c. Ester C. Plus VIt D is good for the immune system.

And, stay out of hospitals, if possible.

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by April2, Oct 11, 2009
All I know is I'm not going to get paranoid over this and stop going to stores, restaurants or what have you. I do try to be careful and avoid people who are coughing, etc. and wash my hands a lot but I refuse to let fear rule my life over anything. I've already had the H1N1 hit my house and I was in very close contact with my son who had it, including holding him, bathing him, etc. and I did not get it, nor did anyone else in my family. I did try to be careful to use the sanitizers and Lysol on things but I wasn't about to let it scare me enough that I wouldn't be around my son. My son had a bad case of it, too, and wound up in the hospital with pneumonia, a complication of the flu. I stayed in the hospital room with him, too, and didn't wear a mask. Like I said, I will be careful but I won't let fear dictate my life. Just be careful, wash your hands and try to avoid sick people. That's all you can do.  

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by Enoch Choi, MDBlank, Oct 11, 2009
I'll answer all of these questions and more if you come join my live HealthChat on Tuesday, October 20 at Noon EST! You can register here and ask questions LIVE: http://www.medhelp.org/health_chats/register/34

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by jesika1, Oct 12, 2009
Gss you're my hero. I couldn't agree with you more.
And yes to other statements.. I agree it's all about reducing mass over population. To me there is more of a risk having shots than the flu itself. My child will not be immunized either. I'm prepared for the alterative route with lots of research. It's all about money folks.

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by jesika1, Oct 12, 2009
ccoyote38 and margypops I agree 101% with your comments and many alike. Glad to see these posts and not endorsing the drug companies that are out to get people sick do they profit. Obama will put a stop to how the FDA run things. Ban MSG ban Aspratame  from foods band chemicals from products that cause illness and cancers etc etc etc!!!!  

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by m3lanie, Oct 12, 2009
I too agree with you jesika. You simply can't forget Qusar's post either, well put.

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by m3lanie, Oct 12, 2009
Qasar,, sorry

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by SnoWav, Oct 12, 2009
2nd wave of H1N1 media induced fear

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by Melissa0116, Oct 12, 2009
Here is what Dr. Choi said earlier to Gss regarding the safety of the vaccine.  

"there is no data yet on the current H1N1 vaccine since studies on safety are just starting now."   I find that a reason for concern regarding this vaccine.  I definitely will not be getting it.


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by MDiv2009, Oct 14, 2009
Is there an alternative time for the chat or will this be a one time chat?  I won't be able to make that time due to work, but I do have questions about H1N1, especially right now as someone who has had it and is having numerous complications from it.

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by PlateletGal, Oct 15, 2009
This isn't good news.  = (

People Who Get a Seasonal Flu Shot Are Twice as Likely to Catch Swine Flu

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/10/15/People-Who-Get-a-Seasonal-Flu-Shot-Are-Twice-as-Likely-to-Catch-Swine-Flu.aspx

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by Enoch Choi, MDBlank, Oct 19, 2009
I'll answer all of these questions and more if you come join my live HealthChat on Tuesday, October 20 at Noon EST! You can register here and ask questions LIVE: http://www.medhelp.org/health_chats/register/34

PlateletGal, mercola posts articles with terrible evidence to support it

MDiv2009, the chat will be saved online, you can read it later

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by wguimb, Oct 20, 2009
I was giving a statement and question but I did not finish it completely when I hit enter it saved it off somewhere.  I had mentioned about a liver transplant I had last year and the fact that I was taking Prograf to reduce rejection of the new liver. My overall prognosis continues to be good.

I also came down with flu like symptoms on Sept 25th of this year.  Symptoms included cough, sneezing, runny nose, slight fever, body aches, fatigue, and diarrhea.  After about a week of this, I went to see a pulmologist acute critical care doctor.  It appeared to him my symptoms were abating but he said I had a upper respiratory infection and he gave me a Rx for Levaquin 500 mg to take for 5 days.  I took those antibiotics for the 5 days but the pain in my chest was still there and I still have diarrhea, body aches, fatigue, and some low fever.  While I was at his office he gave the regular flu shot.

So, I go see the same doctor office but a different pulmologist looks at me and checks all my tests and xrays.  He says I am still sick and that I have H1N1 virus.  I explain that my chest pain are still occurring when I cough or take deep breaths.  I frequently feel that I can't breath after just walking a few feet.  Now we are in the fourth week of this and I have been trying to work, but I feel so fatigued all the time.  My second doctor gave me 10 day treatment of Levaquin 500.  I have finished that and I am still having issues with breathing and fatigue.  Also the diarrhea is still there and frequent loss of stamina, and extreme fatigue causing me to sleep for up to 48 hours at a time.

What should I do?

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by Heather5, Nov 01, 2009
Peggy64: "This vaccine is designed to decrease the population of the world."

You have got to be kidding me!!!  Are you serious?

Come on...

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by Enoch Choi, MDBlank, Nov 08, 2009
hundreds of questions answered at the archive of my webchat on H1N1: http://www.medhelp.org/health_chats/archive/34

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by PlateletGal, Nov 16, 2009
There have been stories from around the world involving possible reactions to the H1N1 flu shots. I'm not sure if China's vaccinations are the same as ours... but here is a link to one such story:


China Investigates Deaths After Swine Flu Shot

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1939575,00.html

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