Sicko: Michael Moore
Jun 29, 2008 11:49PM
- 21 comments
I highly recommend this movie to anyone who wants to know more about our health care system. I read a lot of news from around the world and I try to stay on top of what is happening in places like Zimbabwe, Dafur, and Pakistan, and we get a lot of propaganda from our govt about those countries and others,but sometimes I wonder if the propaganda our gov't feeds us is a way to control us with disinformation. They are always telling us how much better we have it all the way around over here and I am not convinced that that is true anymore. They try to tell us we get the best medical care in the world because it isn't universal coverage, but that is just not true. I like what one old guy in England said, "If you can find the money to kill people, you can find money to heal people". France, England, Canada and even Cuba have universal coverage and the garbage we have been told about those medical systems have been false. Cory pulled the movie out and I realized I had not watched it for a long time. All of those countries with national coverage have longer life expectancy's than Americans. A child born in San Salvador has a better chance of not dying in infancy than our own babies in America & 35 other countries can boast the same stats. Incidences of most medical conditions is lower in those other countries, because prevention is really encouraged. Also, in France, Drs get paid by how WELL their patients are. If they can get most of their patients to control diabetes, lower cholesterol, quit smoking, lose weight, etc., they get bonuses. The argument from the doctors standpoint is they won't get paid anything. However one Dr they interviewed lived in a million dollar home, drove a luxury car and had no debt. People over there in general have no debt. They get free health care, dental care, college, a minimum of 5 weeks vacation and if you get hurt your employer pays a percentage and the government pays a percentage but you receive 100% of your pay. They have 24 hr Drs who make house calls at no charge to you. The preschools are about $1.00 an hour. The govt will send a baby sitter to your home when you have newborns and little ones to sit for the mom so she can have some time away. It was 2 days a week for 4 hours for one woman and while the Nanny is there, she will fix a meal or do some laundry because her job is to help out the family and teach them how to handle situations that might arise in child rearing. In England there were no long waits in the ER and the cashier/business office is not a place to pay your bill, but a guy who gives those who qualify reimbursement for their traveling expenses to the hospital. They showed a guy behind a window GIVING OUT CASH.
A woman in the film said that in France and England the govt is afraid of the people uprising, but in America we are afraid of our govt and that is true. We are constantly concerned about what our govt will or won't do that will hurt us even more in some way. A man in England said that a healthy, educated and confident nation of people is harder to govern, but that keeping people feeling hopeless and pessimistic was easier for our govt because you have a terrified populace that is to afraid to act. We are afraid to lose our jobs, because of ins, student loans, huge debt, etc so we toil away at jobs we hate in order to keep paying for all that stuff that other countries take for granted as a basic right. Why is our defense budget 647 BILLION dollars? And that does not include the paltry 85 billion we will spend on verterans benefits and services. So, war related expenses are 732 billion dollars. Why do we tolerate that? It is outrageous that we should spend that kind of money on killing people and so damn little on saving people and improving our educational system and everything else that doesn't get funded that should. In the movie one girl was denied benefits from her ins co, because they said she was to young to have some type of cancer she had. I think it was cervical. What does age matter if you have that disease? By time she finished going round and round it was invasive and she was going to canada to get treatments. I think that was the same girl. I get so confused. What I am not confused about is that our constitution tells us that not only is it our right but our obligation to overthrow our government when they are being abusive with their power and I think they have been going to far for far to long.
A woman in the film said that in France and England the govt is afraid of the people uprising, but in America we are afraid of our govt and that is true. We are constantly concerned about what our govt will or won't do that will hurt us even more in some way. A man in England said that a healthy, educated and confident nation of people is harder to govern, but that keeping people feeling hopeless and pessimistic was easier for our govt because you have a terrified populace that is to afraid to act. We are afraid to lose our jobs, because of ins, student loans, huge debt, etc so we toil away at jobs we hate in order to keep paying for all that stuff that other countries take for granted as a basic right. Why is our defense budget 647 BILLION dollars? And that does not include the paltry 85 billion we will spend on verterans benefits and services. So, war related expenses are 732 billion dollars. Why do we tolerate that? It is outrageous that we should spend that kind of money on killing people and so damn little on saving people and improving our educational system and everything else that doesn't get funded that should. In the movie one girl was denied benefits from her ins co, because they said she was to young to have some type of cancer she had. I think it was cervical. What does age matter if you have that disease? By time she finished going round and round it was invasive and she was going to canada to get treatments. I think that was the same girl. I get so confused. What I am not confused about is that our constitution tells us that not only is it our right but our obligation to overthrow our government when they are being abusive with their power and I think they have been going to far for far to long.
I have experience with both Canadian and US medical systems. I use my Canadian OHIP for routine medical matters. Perhaps if we lived in London or Toronto, the quality of specialist care would be better but here in Windsor, it is poor. In principal, I believe in universal health care, but I see that in reality you get what you pay for. Not that we don't pay a bundle what with 40% income tax and 15% tax on goods and services.
Let me relay two troubling personal stories to illustrate why I lack confidence in our Ontario health system.
First, my husband developed a severe headache with vomiting, fever, sensitivity to light and stiff neck. I took him to emergency, they wanted to send him home with Tylenol 3 and a dx of migraine. I became quite agitated and told the attending nurse that I would NOT take him home but would cross the border to Detroit to obtain proper care and that if he was misdiagnosed by the Canadian hospital, they would hear from my lawyer. She replied that CT scans are too expensive to perform routinely and to go ahead and take my husband with his puke bucket wherever I chose. Before we left the building, my husband was assigned to a neurologist who performed a CT and a spinal tap. Turns out he had meningitis. I stayed by his side 16 hours a day because of the severe nursing shortage. I pointed out that he was developing an unusual sore on his head which turned out to be the beginnings of encephalitis. My dear husband still credits me for saving his life twice during that ordeal.
Second, my then 14 year old son developed pain and stiffness in his left elbow. Took him to our family doc, Xray revealed no abnormality. Pain persisted, took him to Detroit doc with his Windsor Xray in hand. They took one look at it, sent us immediately to a pediatric orthopedist in Detroit, He then sent us to an orthopedic oncologist who performed surgery within 10 days to rule out bone cancer. Thankfully, he had an aneurysmal bone cyst, non malignant but it was eating the bone away. He does not have full use of his left arm but at least he got proper care and treatment.
Based on those experiences, I will only have serious medical conditions treated in the good ol' USA.
Let me relay two troubling personal stories to illustrate why I lack confidence in our Ontario health system.
First, my husband developed a severe headache with vomiting, fever, sensitivity to light and stiff neck. I took him to emergency, they wanted to send him home with Tylenol 3 and a dx of migraine. I became quite agitated and told the attending nurse that I would NOT take him home but would cross the border to Detroit to obtain proper care and that if he was misdiagnosed by the Canadian hospital, they would hear from my lawyer. She replied that CT scans are too expensive to perform routinely and to go ahead and take my husband with his puke bucket wherever I chose. Before we left the building, my husband was assigned to a neurologist who performed a CT and a spinal tap. Turns out he had meningitis. I stayed by his side 16 hours a day because of the severe nursing shortage. I pointed out that he was developing an unusual sore on his head which turned out to be the beginnings of encephalitis. My dear husband still credits me for saving his life twice during that ordeal.
Second, my then 14 year old son developed pain and stiffness in his left elbow. Took him to our family doc, Xray revealed no abnormality. Pain persisted, took him to Detroit doc with his Windsor Xray in hand. They took one look at it, sent us immediately to a pediatric orthopedist in Detroit, He then sent us to an orthopedic oncologist who performed surgery within 10 days to rule out bone cancer. Thankfully, he had an aneurysmal bone cyst, non malignant but it was eating the bone away. He does not have full use of his left arm but at least he got proper care and treatment.
Based on those experiences, I will only have serious medical conditions treated in the good ol' USA.
I thought Canadian health was the same for the whole country. I didn't realize the different provinces could be different. I don't know what the answer is either, but we just got our COBRA bill as my husband lost his job and we have to pay over 1800. a month for that. We can pay it for a few months, but how on earth do they expect people without a job to pay those rates. It is outrageous. I still think some of the 3/4 of a TRILLION dollars we spend on killing people (defense my @ss) could be put to better use. Or if we are going to have a war, lets liberate the people of Zimbabwe and those other countries who would love to have a democratic government and would than become precious allies instead of just making more enemies. In Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan a LARGE percentage of the population don't want to be "liberated". Even a lot of the women over there have taken part in burning down schools for girls. If that is what they want then let them run their own country. We spent a paltry amount on homeland security which makes me think that all those Homeland Security acts were just another way to rip more of our freedoms away from us. We could spend more of the defense budget on the CIA & NSA to get better intel and than spend some on actually taking care of the problem we have with just letting hijackers walk into our country, take flying lessons and than crash planes everywhere. As I said, I don't know what the answer is, but it sure isn't taking old sick people who can't pay their medical bills at a hospital, putting them in a cab and dropping them off at missions with IV's still stuck in their arms.
Don't even get me started on Homeland Security....
In order to keep my US health insurance, I have to keep my job in Detroit. For the last 26 years, I have commuted across the international border and must say that the Yanks are invariably posturing, arrogant and often rude when letting me into my own friggin country. My drive to work can take between 30 - 90 minutes depending on whether they deem it necessary to f%ck with everybody that day (ie. open trunks, shut off car, ask silly, irrelevant questions, strip search, etc.) I can get back home during the height of rush hour in less than 30 minutes, perhaps 5 more should the Canuck border people ask a few extra questions in their polite, respectful tone.
I enjoyed Michael Moore's films but with the understanding that he skews his facts a bit to emphasize his message.
In order to keep my US health insurance, I have to keep my job in Detroit. For the last 26 years, I have commuted across the international border and must say that the Yanks are invariably posturing, arrogant and often rude when letting me into my own friggin country. My drive to work can take between 30 - 90 minutes depending on whether they deem it necessary to f%ck with everybody that day (ie. open trunks, shut off car, ask silly, irrelevant questions, strip search, etc.) I can get back home during the height of rush hour in less than 30 minutes, perhaps 5 more should the Canuck border people ask a few extra questions in their polite, respectful tone.
I enjoyed Michael Moore's films but with the understanding that he skews his facts a bit to emphasize his message.
I left the United States because I was not willing to lose everything I had worked for medical reasons.. I worked my entire life. from the age of 16 thru 56 and when I applied for and got social security disability due to 44 years of diabetes I was told no medicare for 2 years from approval... No way.. I didn't even have cancer then...I can speak from experience because I live with socialized medicine every day.
socialized medicine is good for emergencies, for chronic diabetes, etc but it was not good for my cancer I have totally paid out of pocket every dime for my 2 surgeries and 6 go arounds of chemo and all the doctors and tests... WHY because first off there was a waiting list for chemo.. yeah a waiting list...7 months.. and no amount of under the table money could get me to the top of the list... I would be dead. My oncologist works at the socialized medicine hospital and she could not get me in.... My bills are about 80 to 90% less than in the states... Socialized medicine pays for my insulin,thyroid meds and blood pressure BUT.. they do not pay for disposable needles... those I buy myself from the states... they want you to use the old fashioned.. its a way to cut expenses..
2 nights ago my girlfriends daughter and they are Costa Rican had extreme pain.. bottom line they went to the hospital and did an emergency appendectomy no charge... she is still there doing well, but my friend has suffered gall bladder attacks for over a year and still has not seen the surgeon.. that appointment is in Sept..
Costa Ricans evidently do not suffer from not having immediate attention since they live longer than Americans...I go to a private hospital for my care. the public hospitals are clean large and huge...Americans are used to snapping their fingers to get an MRI or whatever and they pay...
My medical has been what I consider the finest ever but there are limitations... I have diabetic retinopathy which blood retina problems.. have had 2 laser surgeries in the states.. I went to the clinic here and they ordered 2 test I never heard of... tests that should have been done.. one was an angiogram of my eyes and the other is an ultrasound.. My tests are scheduled for Oct... so yeah I am waiting but this was never even offered to me in the states...
Because my husband and I are residents and not citizens we pay $52.00 a month and if there is an emergency, heart attack, or whatever we are covered.... they wanted to do surgery on my shoulder.. I said No but it would have been scheduled for November.. why because its not an emergency...
For everything in life you get you give up something.... I pay next to nothing for my chemo meds and an example is neupogen which I pay $200 an injection in the states its anywhere between $1800 and $4000.
The other problem now is INSURANCE... My daughter last March in Las Vegas had out patient gall bladder surgery in a local hospital.. she went in at 5 in the afternoon and I took her home at 9pm.. 4 hours and the bills that were billed to her insurance company with the doctor was over $40,000. the insurance company accepted $2900. now if i went there and said hey I Want to pay 2900. I don;t have insurance they would tell me to kiss their arse..
I love where I live and would never go back to the states...Doctors here have one cubicle there is no waiting (private care) and they don't run from room to room..I have a ca 125 done whenever I want.. need no doctors note.. but anyway it is done once a month.. I go at 9 in the morning.. doctor draws blood.. no techs allowed here pickup the results at 4 in the afternoon usually.. charge.. $22.00 my Ct scans trans vaginal ultrasounds all are done by doctors... again no techs allowed..
People here don't usually die of lack of care... people in the states.. do... Ronni
socialized medicine is good for emergencies, for chronic diabetes, etc but it was not good for my cancer I have totally paid out of pocket every dime for my 2 surgeries and 6 go arounds of chemo and all the doctors and tests... WHY because first off there was a waiting list for chemo.. yeah a waiting list...7 months.. and no amount of under the table money could get me to the top of the list... I would be dead. My oncologist works at the socialized medicine hospital and she could not get me in.... My bills are about 80 to 90% less than in the states... Socialized medicine pays for my insulin,thyroid meds and blood pressure BUT.. they do not pay for disposable needles... those I buy myself from the states... they want you to use the old fashioned.. its a way to cut expenses..
2 nights ago my girlfriends daughter and they are Costa Rican had extreme pain.. bottom line they went to the hospital and did an emergency appendectomy no charge... she is still there doing well, but my friend has suffered gall bladder attacks for over a year and still has not seen the surgeon.. that appointment is in Sept..
Costa Ricans evidently do not suffer from not having immediate attention since they live longer than Americans...I go to a private hospital for my care. the public hospitals are clean large and huge...Americans are used to snapping their fingers to get an MRI or whatever and they pay...
My medical has been what I consider the finest ever but there are limitations... I have diabetic retinopathy which blood retina problems.. have had 2 laser surgeries in the states.. I went to the clinic here and they ordered 2 test I never heard of... tests that should have been done.. one was an angiogram of my eyes and the other is an ultrasound.. My tests are scheduled for Oct... so yeah I am waiting but this was never even offered to me in the states...
Because my husband and I are residents and not citizens we pay $52.00 a month and if there is an emergency, heart attack, or whatever we are covered.... they wanted to do surgery on my shoulder.. I said No but it would have been scheduled for November.. why because its not an emergency...
For everything in life you get you give up something.... I pay next to nothing for my chemo meds and an example is neupogen which I pay $200 an injection in the states its anywhere between $1800 and $4000.
The other problem now is INSURANCE... My daughter last March in Las Vegas had out patient gall bladder surgery in a local hospital.. she went in at 5 in the afternoon and I took her home at 9pm.. 4 hours and the bills that were billed to her insurance company with the doctor was over $40,000. the insurance company accepted $2900. now if i went there and said hey I Want to pay 2900. I don;t have insurance they would tell me to kiss their arse..
I love where I live and would never go back to the states...Doctors here have one cubicle there is no waiting (private care) and they don't run from room to room..I have a ca 125 done whenever I want.. need no doctors note.. but anyway it is done once a month.. I go at 9 in the morning.. doctor draws blood.. no techs allowed here pickup the results at 4 in the afternoon usually.. charge.. $22.00 my Ct scans trans vaginal ultrasounds all are done by doctors... again no techs allowed..
People here don't usually die of lack of care... people in the states.. do... Ronni
This is so timely. Before I saw this posting I just read one on the Hysterectomy forum about a woman who has no insurance and doesn't qualify for low income assistance and can't afford the hysterectomy she really needs and then there is the one on the OVCA forum who was disqualified for insurance and is terrified she has cancer.
I grew up in Windsor where Bohan54 lives but right now live 2 1/2 hours north of there between London and Toronto. Different cities have better access to specialists, etc. and there are different rules for each province but we do all get free healthcare. In some provinces you can buy more (i.e. pay for your own CT, MRI, etc.) but in Ontario where we live you can't.
I've had my own complaints about the Canadian medical system as it relates to wait times. Unfortunately you have to be an educated consumer and push your doctor for what you need. We get this help free with the cost of drugs and dental being the only things for which we need insurance coverage. I've learned like Bohan54 that when I don't like the answer I am getting that I need to fight and I do get where I need to. I still consider myself fortunate to not have to worry about whether I will get treatment, just when. Our national healthcare has eroded due to idiocy by politicians but right now there is a huge emphasis on the people of Canada to get our system back to where it was. We also do suffer from too many people taking our healthcare for granted. Our emergency rooms are often too full of people with the sniffles and our hospitals are too full of elderly people waiting for beds in nursing homes. These things need to be fixed. If they had to pay for the care they receive like you do in the US there wouldn't be a problem with wait times and stressed doctors because those who couldn't afford it would not be there.
I found Michael Moore's movie quite interesting. I am hopeful for my friends to the south that your government will soon move to improve healthcare in some of the ways I have heard discussed in your current presidential elections. You are wonderful people who deserve more.
I grew up in Windsor where Bohan54 lives but right now live 2 1/2 hours north of there between London and Toronto. Different cities have better access to specialists, etc. and there are different rules for each province but we do all get free healthcare. In some provinces you can buy more (i.e. pay for your own CT, MRI, etc.) but in Ontario where we live you can't.
I've had my own complaints about the Canadian medical system as it relates to wait times. Unfortunately you have to be an educated consumer and push your doctor for what you need. We get this help free with the cost of drugs and dental being the only things for which we need insurance coverage. I've learned like Bohan54 that when I don't like the answer I am getting that I need to fight and I do get where I need to. I still consider myself fortunate to not have to worry about whether I will get treatment, just when. Our national healthcare has eroded due to idiocy by politicians but right now there is a huge emphasis on the people of Canada to get our system back to where it was. We also do suffer from too many people taking our healthcare for granted. Our emergency rooms are often too full of people with the sniffles and our hospitals are too full of elderly people waiting for beds in nursing homes. These things need to be fixed. If they had to pay for the care they receive like you do in the US there wouldn't be a problem with wait times and stressed doctors because those who couldn't afford it would not be there.
I found Michael Moore's movie quite interesting. I am hopeful for my friends to the south that your government will soon move to improve healthcare in some of the ways I have heard discussed in your current presidential elections. You are wonderful people who deserve more.
In Singapore, we are by law 'forced' to contribute and maintain a medical account.
http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/CPF/my-Cpf/Healthcare/Healthcare.htm
No free medical care :-(
But we do have something to fall back on.
But this does not help if you belong to the very poor group - those who earn less than $900 per month need not contribute to the account but this group needs the money the most when they fall sick.
http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/CPF/my-Cpf/Healthcare/Healthcare.htm
No free medical care :-(
But we do have something to fall back on.
But this does not help if you belong to the very poor group - those who earn less than $900 per month need not contribute to the account but this group needs the money the most when they fall sick.
I was very intrigued by Sicko, but did think that Michael Moore painted a false picture of Canada. I don't have much to complain out...really, I don't. I have insurance through my employer that covers 90% of all my dental and medical (except of course, my Avastin!) and I pay no monthly fee for it. I got it when I got my job. I love my local hospital here in Barrie...the nurses are top notch and theres a small town feel you get that you don't get when you go to Toronto. I have had my major debulking surgery, not to mention a c-section when I had my son, and 13 surgical procedures for stent insertions. I've had 25+ CT scans, 4 MRI's, numerous x-rays and two port-a-cath insertions - what was the cost for all of these out of my own pocket? NOTHING. There was no waiting to call anyone to see if I'm covered for it, or if I'm eligible. If it needs to be done, then it get's done. I do agree that many take advantage of the emergency rooms - you have no idea how many times I've been in there sick, and seen people with colds or flu's waiting...the best one I saw was a man with a bad ingrown nail...yeah, that's a real emergency!
I think both systems have their positives and negatives, but based on that movie alone, I'm quite happy to have the coverage I have here...even if it means I have to wait an extra week here or there for something. I understand why the ontario health insurance plan (OHIP) doesn't cover Avastin...it's too expensive. If they covered every single drug that comes their way, we, as a country, would be dead broke. Until it proves itself in the proper clinical trials, then and only then, will the health system here cover it. I can't complain too much - I'm the one, after all, who asked for it.
I like that when I had my son, I didn't have to worry about whether or not I could afford to have him. I'm happy that while I'm going through this cancer stuff, I don't have to worry about someone telling me I'm not eligible to have chemo because I'm too young for this type of cancer. Too many people take advantage of our system, but on the whole, I think it works fairly well. I saw my urologist on Monday and am having my stent inserted tomorrow under general anesthetic - no need to get permission from anyone. I'll be at the hospital a good portion of the day and it will cost me nothing. Can't complain too much about that...
Becky
I think both systems have their positives and negatives, but based on that movie alone, I'm quite happy to have the coverage I have here...even if it means I have to wait an extra week here or there for something. I understand why the ontario health insurance plan (OHIP) doesn't cover Avastin...it's too expensive. If they covered every single drug that comes their way, we, as a country, would be dead broke. Until it proves itself in the proper clinical trials, then and only then, will the health system here cover it. I can't complain too much - I'm the one, after all, who asked for it.
I like that when I had my son, I didn't have to worry about whether or not I could afford to have him. I'm happy that while I'm going through this cancer stuff, I don't have to worry about someone telling me I'm not eligible to have chemo because I'm too young for this type of cancer. Too many people take advantage of our system, but on the whole, I think it works fairly well. I saw my urologist on Monday and am having my stent inserted tomorrow under general anesthetic - no need to get permission from anyone. I'll be at the hospital a good portion of the day and it will cost me nothing. Can't complain too much about that...
Becky
So, in Singapore do they have a system that takes care of those that can't afford to set aside money? I will look at your link, but I am wondering if your medical account is insurance or just money in a savings account. I thought I remembered you saying that medical care there is a lot less expensive than here.
Yes, I do know that Michael Moore has skewed his movie to his view, but there is a lot of truth in his stories. I like the Al Franken book, Lies and the Lying, Liars That Tell Them or something like that, but he way skewed things to his view, but he still made good points.
The bottom line for me is I no longer trust my government to do the right things with the money we entrust to them. I am starting to view our government as a coup against the people, only it is insidously more manipulative and sneaky than brandishing weapons and putting soldiers in the streets like other would be dictatorial governments do.
People always wondered how the Germans could sit by and watch while unspeakable atrocities were being commited againts the Jews. It was because it was gradual propaganda by Hitlers team of disinformation specialists. The economy is so bad you can't feed your kids, put a decent roof over their heads or afford a Dr when they are sick and you start believing your govt when they tell you it is one group of people causing all of these problems. Then he starts getting rid of Jews and pouring money into the German Economy and people are happy and fed and the kids can go to the Dr and all is the German Dream. So, obviously it was the Jews causing the problem so why help them after what they have done to us. THAT is the mentality and we all would succumb to it in hard times. Look at now. We have a little oil problem and instead of starting NOW to fund renewable energy sources people are clamoring to open up artic exploration. That's the answer, kill off more of what was put here to create a balance. We are so arrogant in so many ways no wonder people from other countries hate us.
I would like to see what I call the Chinese Menu Party. You know, not just towing a party line but picking a little from column A and a little from column B based on what is best for the people, not the lobbyists that line our politicians pockets. They can abolish the parties for all I care. It is time to take care of the people not cater to special interests.
Well, I haven't had anyone to debate with for awhile and I do not mean ARGUE, so this has been nice. I have a minor in History and the way governments work have always fascinated me. My govt is just starting to **** me off royaly and I don't find them so fascinating anymore; just incompetent and dangerous to the masses.
Yes, I do know that Michael Moore has skewed his movie to his view, but there is a lot of truth in his stories. I like the Al Franken book, Lies and the Lying, Liars That Tell Them or something like that, but he way skewed things to his view, but he still made good points.
The bottom line for me is I no longer trust my government to do the right things with the money we entrust to them. I am starting to view our government as a coup against the people, only it is insidously more manipulative and sneaky than brandishing weapons and putting soldiers in the streets like other would be dictatorial governments do.
People always wondered how the Germans could sit by and watch while unspeakable atrocities were being commited againts the Jews. It was because it was gradual propaganda by Hitlers team of disinformation specialists. The economy is so bad you can't feed your kids, put a decent roof over their heads or afford a Dr when they are sick and you start believing your govt when they tell you it is one group of people causing all of these problems. Then he starts getting rid of Jews and pouring money into the German Economy and people are happy and fed and the kids can go to the Dr and all is the German Dream. So, obviously it was the Jews causing the problem so why help them after what they have done to us. THAT is the mentality and we all would succumb to it in hard times. Look at now. We have a little oil problem and instead of starting NOW to fund renewable energy sources people are clamoring to open up artic exploration. That's the answer, kill off more of what was put here to create a balance. We are so arrogant in so many ways no wonder people from other countries hate us.
I would like to see what I call the Chinese Menu Party. You know, not just towing a party line but picking a little from column A and a little from column B based on what is best for the people, not the lobbyists that line our politicians pockets. They can abolish the parties for all I care. It is time to take care of the people not cater to special interests.
Well, I haven't had anyone to debate with for awhile and I do not mean ARGUE, so this has been nice. I have a minor in History and the way governments work have always fascinated me. My govt is just starting to **** me off royaly and I don't find them so fascinating anymore; just incompetent and dangerous to the masses.
Jan,
I have not seen this movie, but remember when it came out. I thought then that I would like to see it as I find Michael Moore intersting, to say the least.
Your thoughts on the government in our own counrty echo many others.
And whili I do not know a lot about China and the workings of its government and healthcase, I do know that its people have a whole different thinking than ours. I say this because I have met a woman in Hong Kong who has ovarian cancer. My heart goes out to her. I have not heard from her in quite awhile and neither have any of the other girls that know her. My fear is that she is no longer with us. From her cancer? No, because of the uselessness she felt of having cancer. Many times in talking with her, she was always depressed because she felt she was no longer an asset to society, to her family, to her job, to her country. She often spoke of suicide as she felt she had nothing left to offer.
In meeting women from around the world, I am amazed at how healthcare is handled so differently.
I could go on and on here but I won't as I think that we all get the picture. I just wish that there was something we could do.
Chris
I have not seen this movie, but remember when it came out. I thought then that I would like to see it as I find Michael Moore intersting, to say the least.
Your thoughts on the government in our own counrty echo many others.
And whili I do not know a lot about China and the workings of its government and healthcase, I do know that its people have a whole different thinking than ours. I say this because I have met a woman in Hong Kong who has ovarian cancer. My heart goes out to her. I have not heard from her in quite awhile and neither have any of the other girls that know her. My fear is that she is no longer with us. From her cancer? No, because of the uselessness she felt of having cancer. Many times in talking with her, she was always depressed because she felt she was no longer an asset to society, to her family, to her job, to her country. She often spoke of suicide as she felt she had nothing left to offer.
In meeting women from around the world, I am amazed at how healthcare is handled so differently.
I could go on and on here but I won't as I think that we all get the picture. I just wish that there was something we could do.
Chris
Hi everyone,
A very interesting discussion. It is good to learn how the medical system works in other places.
In New Zealand our Public hospitals, emergency departments, tests and diagnostics, treatments are free, and we do have very good, big clean public hospitals each run by their respective District Health boards under the government.
There are long waits in the ER's and...there is of course, a very large waiting list for most 'non urgent' things (sometimes it depends how pushy your own GP is)...so we do also have a private insurance system.
The private hospitals are very quick and have expert care (usually the same doctors and specialists that work also in the public hospitals!!), but of course not everyone can afford that private cover.
Personally I would not be without private insurance, just the mere fact of knowing that stuff can be dealt with straight away. We are lucky that my husband's work covers him and the family is an extra $80 per month. This covers us for pretty much everything except Dental such as orthodontics. Most people that have private insurance pay more though. We are lucky that his work scheme covers nearly 100%.
Workers here pay a small ACC (Accident Compensation) levy, and if you have an accident, ACC will pay (i think its) %80 of your wages while you are off work.
In Australia every worker pays a Medicare levy and that covers public medical care there. They also have private medical insurance which you can choose to take.
My friend, who is a nurse, travelled to the States and on return told me that, even in an emergency, if you do not have insurance, you can be turned away. I wasn't sure if that was true??
It ABSOLUTELY grates me that us humans and the POWERS that be..ie...the Government (Yes and in many cases the USA leads the way) spend $$$$$$$$$$$$$ in 'protection' of the people, while in their own backyard there is poverty and hunger and sick people who cannot afford to even live.
A minuscule part of that budget, that is spent on war and warring, could be used for medical care.
Its not Rocket Science..is it??
Peace to you all........Love...Kim
A very interesting discussion. It is good to learn how the medical system works in other places.
In New Zealand our Public hospitals, emergency departments, tests and diagnostics, treatments are free, and we do have very good, big clean public hospitals each run by their respective District Health boards under the government.
There are long waits in the ER's and...there is of course, a very large waiting list for most 'non urgent' things (sometimes it depends how pushy your own GP is)...so we do also have a private insurance system.
The private hospitals are very quick and have expert care (usually the same doctors and specialists that work also in the public hospitals!!), but of course not everyone can afford that private cover.
Personally I would not be without private insurance, just the mere fact of knowing that stuff can be dealt with straight away. We are lucky that my husband's work covers him and the family is an extra $80 per month. This covers us for pretty much everything except Dental such as orthodontics. Most people that have private insurance pay more though. We are lucky that his work scheme covers nearly 100%.
Workers here pay a small ACC (Accident Compensation) levy, and if you have an accident, ACC will pay (i think its) %80 of your wages while you are off work.
In Australia every worker pays a Medicare levy and that covers public medical care there. They also have private medical insurance which you can choose to take.
My friend, who is a nurse, travelled to the States and on return told me that, even in an emergency, if you do not have insurance, you can be turned away. I wasn't sure if that was true??
It ABSOLUTELY grates me that us humans and the POWERS that be..ie...the Government (Yes and in many cases the USA leads the way) spend $$$$$$$$$$$$$ in 'protection' of the people, while in their own backyard there is poverty and hunger and sick people who cannot afford to even live.
A minuscule part of that budget, that is spent on war and warring, could be used for medical care.
Its not Rocket Science..is it??
Peace to you all........Love...Kim
You can not be turned away at a public hospital in the United States.. BUT you may die in the emergency room waiting for care...Private hospitals can turn you away and you can die on their steps... they are supposed to stabilize you and then transfer you to a public hospital... doesn' always happen..
I have to say that I was completely screwed by BCBS. - I do agree that I would feel the most comfortable under the care of an US doctor, but in order to get that care you better be healthy and wealthy if you are planning to live very long. I screwed up and lapsed in payment last November and was dropped in January 08 - then reapplied in February and received my insurance cards March 1st saying I was covered. I made an appointment and unloaded all of my symptoms on my GP and he ordered a blood test & CT scan. March 8th I received a letter from BCBS saying they have yet to start my coverage because I needed to sign a form regarding my 2004 colonoscopy - I signed it and mailed it in - 2 weeks later I received a letter from them saying they never received the letter and therefore I am dropped and here is your premium - bye! So now I am left in the dust with a pre-existing condition and pre-existing CT scan order... I just called them today and told them the position they put me and the lady said they DID received the signature, but there was a "page 1" that wasnt included... so I asked why they couldnt print out a freaking copy (since it was in there system) - and she coldly said, "I am sorry there is nothing we can do - you can reapply" I know it wasnt her fault, but I would not work for a company who sent people to an early grave like they do - just like I wouldnt work for an abortionist I would not work for an insurance company - where they find reasons to deny coverage - what sick B****rds. People who say the US has the best healthcare system are either healthy &/or they are wealthy &/or they are covered... the rest of us are told to go live somewhere else if we dont like it - well that shouldnt be the attitude of the best place to live in the world. Yep, I'm ticked off.
I don't know what the answer to all of this is, but what we have does not work. It is the most barbaric and inhumane system of medical care in the world. It is true that the ER's are jammed with people that don't belong there. I went in with one of my throwing up bouts while on Gemzar and there were some people eating chinese food in the waiting room. I kept barfing from the smell and I love chinese food, but if you are well enough to eat food in the ER you can wait. They need more free clinics where people can be seen for colds, stitiches, and other small things like that for free & leave the ER to really sick people. I have always worked and I have always had insurance, and I should never in a million years pay TWENTY FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS a year for insurance & that is the full cost of a group plan. In some of y'alls countries you would never pay that in a lifetime for medical care much less insurance for only ONE YEAR. A large percentage of the population doesn't even earn that much in a year. Also, if I get sick right now I can't go to the hospital. Our lovely COBRA people tell me it takes up to 2 weeks to get everything settled. Cory (and he never screams) was screaming at someone on the phone and asking them why they couldn't get this done faster because I have chemo next Tuesday & I can't afford to be out of coverage. We overnighted them a check so he couldn't see why they couldn't overnight our ins. I can't pick up many scrips cause most of them cost in the high hundrends to thousands of dollars without ins. They would reimburse me but that would take forever also. They are real quick about getting your money, but they aren't to quick about doing anything for you.
Momof sofi should not have to worry about how she is going to pay for all of this without insurance. She is raising a young family, how on earth is she supposed to pay for this stuff. It honestly reminds me of some horrible futuristic sci fi book. In a star trek episode people were alloted medical care based solely on income and their value to society. The rich were getting botox injections, but the poor were dying and couldn't even get an antibiotic. That is not the future, that is now.
Kimmywah: They are supposed to stabilize you, but if you have some major thing wrong with you they can and will turn you out into the streets. On the video it shows a woman being dumped off by a cab in front of a shelter, with the wristbands still on her and and IV in her arm from the hospital. She was disoriented and didn't know where she was, but the hospital put her in a cab and told the cab driver to dump her at a shelter. I guess they could have dumped her in the garbage just as easily.
This is a link to a video that shows a woman dying at an emergency room, while people walked all around her.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/07/01/waiting.room.death/index.html#cnnSTCVideo
When did we get to be so selfish, so indifferent, so apathetic. Our government works for us and we have done a horrible job of hiring people to fill those positions. Yes, with your vote you are hiring someone to work for you. That doesn't happen anymore. At first is was veiled so you didn't know big business was the favorite child, but that is like the stepsisters in cinderella getting everything and Cinderella getting the leftover rags. There will be no fairy godmother, there will be no happy ending for thousands upon thousands of people who can't afford health ins. If you think it can't happen to you. Think again. Almost every large company is reporting record loses. Almost all companies are closing and consolidating locations and stopping all expansion projects. As they restructure, you could be restructured out of a job and ins. The middle class is getting wiped out and before long we will be a nation of the very rich and the very poor.
Whatever the answer is, it is not in throwing away people. It is not in insurance companies that deny treatment while someone who could have been saved dies. It is not Drs and the powers that be that decide whether you live or die anymore based on their ability to cure you, it is a bunch of guys in suits whose ONLY purpose in life is to make more money for the insurance companies they work for and to do that they have to make sure you dont get any expensive health care. I bet my ins co would love to get rid of me.
Yes, Michael Moore skewed his film to make a point, but nobody can deny that EVERY DAY in America, people die either because they don't have ins or because their claim has been denied. And we feel sorry for 3rd world countries?
Momof sofi should not have to worry about how she is going to pay for all of this without insurance. She is raising a young family, how on earth is she supposed to pay for this stuff. It honestly reminds me of some horrible futuristic sci fi book. In a star trek episode people were alloted medical care based solely on income and their value to society. The rich were getting botox injections, but the poor were dying and couldn't even get an antibiotic. That is not the future, that is now.
Kimmywah: They are supposed to stabilize you, but if you have some major thing wrong with you they can and will turn you out into the streets. On the video it shows a woman being dumped off by a cab in front of a shelter, with the wristbands still on her and and IV in her arm from the hospital. She was disoriented and didn't know where she was, but the hospital put her in a cab and told the cab driver to dump her at a shelter. I guess they could have dumped her in the garbage just as easily.
This is a link to a video that shows a woman dying at an emergency room, while people walked all around her.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/07/01/waiting.room.death/index.html#cnnSTCVideo
When did we get to be so selfish, so indifferent, so apathetic. Our government works for us and we have done a horrible job of hiring people to fill those positions. Yes, with your vote you are hiring someone to work for you. That doesn't happen anymore. At first is was veiled so you didn't know big business was the favorite child, but that is like the stepsisters in cinderella getting everything and Cinderella getting the leftover rags. There will be no fairy godmother, there will be no happy ending for thousands upon thousands of people who can't afford health ins. If you think it can't happen to you. Think again. Almost every large company is reporting record loses. Almost all companies are closing and consolidating locations and stopping all expansion projects. As they restructure, you could be restructured out of a job and ins. The middle class is getting wiped out and before long we will be a nation of the very rich and the very poor.
Whatever the answer is, it is not in throwing away people. It is not in insurance companies that deny treatment while someone who could have been saved dies. It is not Drs and the powers that be that decide whether you live or die anymore based on their ability to cure you, it is a bunch of guys in suits whose ONLY purpose in life is to make more money for the insurance companies they work for and to do that they have to make sure you dont get any expensive health care. I bet my ins co would love to get rid of me.
Yes, Michael Moore skewed his film to make a point, but nobody can deny that EVERY DAY in America, people die either because they don't have ins or because their claim has been denied. And we feel sorry for 3rd world countries?
One question about US medical system. Is it true that hospitals and doctors have to buy very expensive insurance in case they are sued which resulted the patients have to pay more to the doctors? Or am I watching too much dramatized movies and TV shows on the medical scene in the US?
My ob gyn in the states pays $150,000.00 a year for malpractice insurance.. and that was 4 years ago and I am sure it is more now...
What $150,000? That's is crazy. You could buy a HOUSE with that kind of money.
It is not my intention to spam anyone with my personal message to you on healthcare issues in Singapore. Please accept my sincere apologies. I have received a warning from medhelp and would watch my posts carefully.
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Because the american people are SUE happy they must carry that type of insurance.. that is what helps bring the cost up of care amongst other things... In America nothing is ever the patients fault even when they don't follow directons of course inAmerica anymore its always SOMEONE ELSES FAULT..
now I understand real malpractice but this goes to the extreme... In my home town of Las VEgas over 50% of the doctors delivering babies have left in the last 3 years...Ob gyn and brain surgeons have the highest malpractice insurance rates in Nevada...
now I understand real malpractice but this goes to the extreme... In my home town of Las VEgas over 50% of the doctors delivering babies have left in the last 3 years...Ob gyn and brain surgeons have the highest malpractice insurance rates in Nevada...
Healthcare in the good old USA and the health insurance industry needs a total revamp. How is it possible that my insurance company only has to pay something like 60 dollars for a 120 dollar office visit ? and I pay the doctor 30 dollars as co payment.. that math doesn't add up ... but if I were to pay out right it it would cost 120 dollars. The billing dept at the hospital were I receive tx, is allowed to extend a 10% discount on bills, little known fact and they offer this at their discretion ??? Just isn't fair. Because my husbands company does not offer a group plan that will cover us we must carry a private policy and man oh man it cost like 1,400 dollars a month and that is without dental and a prescription cap of $500. Every year when we renew, the ins. company changes our coverage and there is not a thing we can do about it... It is getting harder and harder for people to stay feed and alive. Withe
Oh my.... I will spend time reading the responses to this during the week... I promise. But I had to laugh, because when I first saw the journal title, I thought perhaps you were referring to Michael Moore as a "Sicko" and then I remembered that he had a documentary out by that name. But at first I thought..."Oh, hey, I have always appreciated his work in the past... I wonder why Jan does not like him." :))))
See what happens when I act impulsively........
Anyway, I thought you'd get a kick out of that.
Mary
See what happens when I act impulsively........
Anyway, I thought you'd get a kick out of that.
Mary
To funny. No, as out there as he can be I am way to much of a liberal to not appreciate someone who pulls the curtain back on the great wizard. Can't wait to hear what you think on this subject.
Jan
Jan
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