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The Sinus Flush

Jan 06, 2008 10:43PM - 128 comments

The Flip-Turn Sinus Flush, excerpted from the not-for-sale book "Clear Your Sinuses Forever", by friggy

Great ideas often look identical to stupid ones, right up until the moment they work.
                                                                                    Scott Adams (creator of "Dilbert")

UPDATE:  Kudos to Dr.Ketan Mehta and his wife Nina, who invented and patented the Neilmed Sinus Rinse.  It is a simple and convenient way of doing sinus irrigation, it's available in most drugstores now, it has been proven effective and is now being recommended by doctors for infections of the maxillary and lower ethmoid sinuses.  I wish I'd thought of that.

However, if your sinus problems are in your frontal, sphenoid, or upper ethmoid sinuses, gravity will take over and the Neilmed saline solution won't be able to reach the infection.  That is where The Sinus Flush takes over. It's not convenient and it has its risks, but The Sinus Flush is highly effective in removing any infection from your head.

WARNING!    DISCLAIMER!

The technique in this manual involves bending over in a hot shower.  Obviously, if you bend over in a shower, there is a slight possibility that you can get dizzy and fall down.  You could possibly hit your head, get knocked out, or break something.  It’s a tiny risk, greater if you are older, overweight, obese, or have reduced blood flow in your neck arteries, but it’s a risk you must assume if you want get rid of an otherwise untreatable sinus infection.

There is a possibility that the infection could go into your ear, which happened to me once, but I found a way to avoid it.  You could also accidentally rub infected snot into your eye and get an eye infection, if you are careless.

The physiology of your head may be different from my head and you could experience a problem that I would not have, so it’s another risk you must assume.

Over the last five years I have used the Flip-Turn Sinus Flush to cure a 5-year-long incurable chronic sinus infection, which included an alien-looking gel–covered fungus ball the size of a marble, and the complete loss of taste and smell for a month.  I have cured 5 subsequent bouts of acute sinusitis, 7 out of 11 colds, a mold intrusion, and an infection that smelled like dog-poop-and-Parmesan, and one that smelled like burning ammonia.   I have never had a complete day of nasal congestion since this invention.

This technique will work for almost any infection of the nose, if you‘re willing to take the risk.  If an unfortunate side effect should happen to you, well, I am sorry.  I am not charging you for this, you are not paying me for it, so don’t sue me.  It’s a responsibility that you have to assume.  If you are one of those entitled Americans who expect a risk-free life, with massive compensation should things don’t work out, then don't try this.

So, why is this book manuscript free?  The physician who reviewed it said, “The materials cost less than $5.00, so there’s no income, and if, on the outside chance, a patient falls in the shower, they can sue me.  What doctor’s gonna recommend this?”  He’s right, doctors aren’t stupid—that’s why they’re doctors.  So the Flip-Turn Sinus Flush is now “alternative medicine”.

If you don't wish to take the risk involved, then at least you may wish to try the Dr.Grossan Hydropulse Nasal Irrigation System.  It gently pumps the saline solution into your sinuses, and I don’t know if it pumps saline all the way up into the far reaches of your sinuses, because of gravity, but it follows the same line of treatment expressed here.

There is also a neti pot, which was recently demonstrated by Dr. Oz on the Oprah Winfrey Show.  Many people swear by a neti pot, so it is apparently effective for some colds and some sinus infections. However, a neti pot flush may or may not reach the upper part of the sinuses. At any rate, thanks to the Oprah Show, they are now widely available on the internet.

BUT, before you try anything here, you should go to a doctor and have your problem checked out.  You may have a problem that looks like a sinus infection, but is something else.  The medical model works for most people, and if you have a severe sinus infection, it could spread to other parts of your head or body, and it would be a good idea to be on antibiotics.

The Flip-Turn Sinus Flush is intended for anyone who has not been cured by antibiotics or other means, and who may be facing sinus surgery to remove a bacterial or fungal infection of the sinuses, and are young or fit enough to dare to do the procedure.

Part I explains why the technique works, Part II tells you how to do it, Part III tells you how to prevent sinus problems.

Good luck, and breathe free!


INTRODUCTION

     Oftentimes antibiotics do not work for chronic sinusitis.  The reason is simple: antibiotics are delivered to the site of infection by the bloodstream.  There is some blood flow in the sinuses, but for many people it’s not sufficient to deliver enough of the drug to kill the large number of bacteria in the infected sinuses.
     You may also have learned that saline irrigation works a little bit to relieve your sinusitis, but not enough.  The reason for this is even simpler: gravity.   Gravity will pull the salt water out of your nose before it can wash out the infected mucus in the upper part of your sinuses.
     A study released a few years ago by the Mayo Clinic revealed the surprising discovery that if the cause of sinusitis is the toxins from the infected mucus in your sinuses, and that if you remove the infected snot, the problem will go away.  More on that, later.
     There’s two ways to remove infected snot from your sinuses, if long-term antibiotics do not work. The medical way is with surgery—stick an endoscope up your nostril and suck enough of it out to end the infection.  This usually works, but it sometimes causes complications, or scarring, and the infection often returns.
     The other way to get rid of sinus problem is to make your head an inhospitable place for a virus, bacteria, mold, or fungus to exist.  The superior way to make germs leave the warmth and comfort of your nose and sinuses is with saline solution, also known as salt water.  Saline is easy to make, but hard to administer.  As I mentioned, without the proper procedure, saline irrigation doesn’t always work well.
     This guide will show you a simple and extremely effective way to get the saline solution where it needs to go, and get rid of your sinus problem.  You will also learn some ways to prevent these problems before they get settled in your head and make you miserable.
     I am not a doctor, but my father was an honored and highly respected family physician.  He was the one that told me that all the antibiotics, anti-histamines, corticosteroids, and nasal sprays that my top-notch local HMO doctor was treating me with might not work, because he’d seen them fail in many patients.   The medical model of treating most diseases doesn’t always succeed with sinusitis, and he recommended saline solution for some relief.
     It worked a little, but not enough saline would reach the upper part of my sinuses.  Then I remembered, from being on a swim team, that when you botch a flip-turn, massive amounts of water would get in your sinuses, which was uncomfortable, but caused no damage. It also drained every bit of snot out of your nose.   The Flip-Turn Sinus Flush mimics this process.  Plenty of saline drains into every nook and cranny of your sinuses, and when you stand straight up, it drains out with most of the infected snot and pus.  During the first treatment, you will see.  After several treatments, your sinuses will resume their normal function, and you will be able to breathe freely through your nose.

      If you want to know what causes sinusitis, and why the saline solution works, read on.  If you are sick, and you don’t feel like reading much, and just want to start getting rid of the slimy clog in your head, you’ll be tempted to go directly to Part II of this book, which shows how to do it.  PLEASE READ THE WARNINGS IN SECTION #11 (BEFORE YOU BEGIN). If you don’t, you can possibly cause a more extensive infection.


PART I

1.  WHERE THE PROBLEM BEGINS

     You’ve got holes in your head.  The sinuses are hollow spaces in the bones of your face.  They help you breathe, by making the air warm and moist.  They help you smell, by letting odors and fragrances waft up to your olfactory nerves, which transmit the smells to your brain.  If you are using your voice correctly, you can feel your sinuses vibrate with sound.
     The sinuses make your head lighter, because solid bone would weigh too much, and your neck would be sore all the time. The sinuses make mucus, which moisturizes your nasal passages, and cleans them, too, leaving a neat package of rubbish in your nose—boogers.
     Inside the sinuses are tiny little moving hairs, called cilia, which move the mucus out of the sinuses into the nose, to make boogers, or into your throat, where it is swallowed, usually without you noticing it.  There are millions of cilia in your nose, and they each beat 16 times per second, acting like miniature oars to push the waste out of your nose.
     Each sinus has an opening, called an ostium, into the nose, which lets air and mucus in and out, and each sinus is connected to the nasal passages with a continuous mucus membrane lining.  Sinusitis is the inflammation of these linings, which cause them to swell up and block the ostia.  The ostia are only about 3 millimeters in diameter, which is about as big as this letter “O”, so it doesn’t take much to block each hole.
     When the ostia become blocked, mucus can get backed up in your sinuses, and air can be trapped inside.  This causes pressure in the sinuses, which leads to face pain or headache.  Sometimes, the oxygen in the blocked sinuses is absorbed by the blood vessels of the mucus membrane.  This creates a vacuum inside the sinus, which causes pressure from the outside, and of course, pain.
Doctors use three ways to classify sinus problems:
• Acute: a severe attack which lasts less than 3 weeks
• Chronic: sinusitis which lasts for 3 to 8 weeks, or longer, sometimes for months and even years.
• Recurrent: several attacks of acute sinusitis in one year.



2. WHAT CAUSES SINUSITIS?

     Here are some of the other afflictions that can cause the sinuses and connecting holes and passageways to get clogged:
• An infection by a bacteria or virus of your respiratory system, which includes your lungs, throat, nose, and nasal passages.  It’s usually caused by a cold, which inflames your membranes, makes them thicker, and makes the mucus thicker, which blocks your sinuses and creates an ideal condition for bacteria to grow. Then white blood cells come to attack the bacteria, and the battle further swells and congests the nasal passages.  The discharge that comes out of your nose is usually yellowish or greenish.  Doctors refer to it as purulent nasal discharge.  It’s this nasty mess that is the problem we are going to deal with in this book.
• Your sinuses may react to an allergen, such as pet dander, dust, dust mites, pollen, or any other tiny particle you are allergic to, and your immune system will attack it and cause your nasal membranes to swell up and block your sinuses.  In the case of pollen, it could be seasonable.  A food allergy can also cause this condition.  The discharge that results from this is usually clear or whitish.
• A fungus, including mold, can settle in the nose and cause chronic sinusitis.  The name of this specific reaction is called “allergic fungal sinusitis”.  Researchers at the Mayo clinic found that 96% of chronic sinusitis sufferers had a fungus in the nose.
• Nasal polyps can grow inside your nose from years of allergic reactions or infections.  These growths can get as big as your fingertip, and block your nasal passages and sinus openings. Polyps may possibly be related to chronic allergic fungal sinusitis, but doctors aren’t exactly sure what causes them.  Polyps can be removed by surgery, and the air passages will be opened considerably.  A recent study suggests that the prescription drug Nasonex may shrink the polyps.
• A defect or injury in the cartilage of the nose, called a deviated septum, can cause chronic blockage in the nasal area.  This may be corrected by surgery.
• Other irritants can inflame the nasal passages, such as air pollution, cigarette smoke, cigar smoke, and perfumes made from synthetic ingredients.  Once again, see your doctor, or avoid the irritants.
• Asthma is an immune disease, and asthma sufferers are highly susceptible to sinusitis.  About 3 out of 4 people with asthma also have chronic sinusitis.  There is evidence that some asthma and the chronic sinusitis associated with it is caused by Chlamydia or mycoplasma bacteria.  The mycoplasma is difficult to detect with the standard tests.  Your doctor would have to request a special test to find it.  There is also a strong possibility that asthma is a chronic reaction to a fungus that has taken up residence in the lungs, in the same manner that a fungus can cause sinusitis.
  
     This book is going to concentrate on acute and chronic sinusitis caused by cold viruses and other viruses which lead to bacterial infections in the sinuses and nasal passages.  With the methods I will show you, the yellow and green purulence, which we better know as snot, will be removed from your nasal passages.  When the infected snot is removed from your head, the cold viruses, bacteria, and perhaps the fungi will not have a comfortable environment to thrive, multiply, and release the poisons which inflame and destroy the otherwise healthy red mucus membranes in your nose and sinuses.
     Doctors have difficulty treating sinusitis caused by fungi.  They can give you an antifungal medicine, but there is no definite proof that it can cure the sinusitis. Some researchers are looking for an anti-fungal nasal spray at this time.
     This book will show you how to flush out the fungus or mold when it first appears, which will prevent chronic sinusitis. The technique has not been tested on chronic fungus infections, although I had great success against one.  It certainly does work in the early stage of exposure to a mold or fungus, for the same reason that it works against bacterial infection—if you flush out the toxin, you may flush out the problem in your sinuses.
     If you have one of the other forms of sinusitis, your doctor can take an x-ray of your head, and the infection may show up as an opaque area on the x-ray.  Of course, you don’t really want to get an x-ray of your head unless you really have to, so it’s better to get a CAT scan of your sinuses, which is the more accurate way to diagnose the specific form of sinusitis that you are suffering from.  
     Sometimes, however, you can have a sinus infection that won’t show up on a CAT scan of your sinuses.  In this case, you will have drainage into your throat, called post-nasal drip, and your throat often have too much mucus in it, which can cause a mild sore throat or cough on a chronic basis.



3. WHAT ARE THE SYMPTOMS?

     The main symptom of sinusitis is pain.  Pain in your face, pain in your head.  The pain is caused by the pressure of mucus and pus and air trapped in your clogged sinuses, or pain caused air pressing on the outside of your sinuses, a result of a vacuum inside a clogged sinus or sinuses.  On the following pages are illustrations of each of your sinuses, and the pain that is caused by their affliction.

(Insert illustration of side cross-cut view sinuses)

NOTE:  Go to Google Images and type in "sinus" if you want to see a picture of all the sinuse

These are your frontal sinuses.  You may have pain in your forehead when you touch it, if they are infected.

(Insert illustration of frontal sinuses here)

These are your maxillary sinuses.  They can hold about two tablespoons of mucus.  If these are infected, you may have pain in your upper jaw, your teeth may ache, and your cheeks may have pain when you touch them.
     Note:  One of the causes of maxillary sinusitis is a tooth abscess that has leaked the infection into the maxillary sinus.  The teeth may be X-rayed to find this.

(Insert illustration of maxillary sinuses here.)

These are the ethmoid sinuses.  If infection occurs, you may get puffy eyes and pain between them.  The sides of your nose may get tender to the touch, your nose may get stuffy, and you won’t be able to smell so well.  You may also get a splitting headache, felt most intensely in the forehead.

(Insert illustration of ethmoid sinuses here.)

Lastly, here are your sphenoid sinuses.  If they get inflamed, you may feel an earache, a pain in the neck, and an ache in the top of your head.

(Insert illustration of sphenoid sinuses here.)

     Most of the time, though, you are just going to feel a general pain everywhere in your head, especially when you awaken in the morning.

Other symptoms may include:
• A runny nose.  This is called rhinitis.
• Nasal congestion
• Fever
• General weakness
• Fatigue
• Malaise
• A cough caused by infected mucus draining into your throat and irritating your throat.  It gets more severe at night, because it can’t drain while you are lying down.
• The mucus draining from the back of your nasal passages into your throat, or post-nasal drip, can also cause a sore throat.
• An odd smell that won’t go away—an odor like a mix of dog-poop and old Parmesan cheese.

You may have some or all of these symptoms, and if you have some of these symptoms, it doesn’t necessarily mean you have sinusitis.  
     You may also have fever with chills, which usually indicates that the infection has gone outside of the sinuses to somewhere else in your head or body.



4.  THE USUAL TREATMENTS FOR ACUTE SINUSITIS

If you get an attack of acute sinusitis, a doctor may recommend the following:
• A decongestant to help reduce stuffiness and congestion
• Antibiotics, if a bacterial infection is indicated
• A painkiller to relieve any pain or tenderness in your face or head.

     Antibiotics are usually prescribed if you have yellow or green nasal discharge from one side of the nose, or both sides of the face, localized pain on one side of the face, or evidence of pus inside the nose.  Doctors rarely take a sample of pus from your nose and actually test it, in order to determine if it is a bacterial or viral infection.
     However, it’s a safe bet that a bacterial infection is present, because most of us already have bacterial in our upper respiratory tract.  These bacteria, such as haemophilus influenzae and streptococcus pneumonae, don’t cause a problem when you are healthy, but after a cold virus infection clogs your nasal passages and weakens your body’s immune system, these germs are able to multiply and thrive.
     Doctors usually prescribe antibiotics for 10 to 12 days in cases of acute sinusitis. Whether or not the short-term use of antibiotics actually works against sinus infection is still open to debate.  The sinuses are holes in the bones of the face, and bones don’t have much blood going through them, and the blood circulation through the mucus membranes in the sinuses is not great, so it’s extremely difficult for antibiotics, which travel though the bloodstream, to reach the sinuses to fight the bacteria.
     A study published in the Journal of Family Practice in February of 2005 showed that there was no difference between the patients who received an antibiotic and the patients who received a placebo.  That’s just one study, but it does cast doubt on the effectiveness of short-term antibiotic treatment for mild acute sinusitis.   Taking antibiotics also increases the chance that you can develop a drug-resistance strain of bacteria living in your upper respiratory tract.  Lately, many ear-nose-and-throat doctors have spoken out against the use of antibiotics for mild acute sinusitis, claiming they are useless and contribute to the development of antibiotic-resistant strains of bacteria.
     On the other hand, antibiotics may prevent the infection from spreading to other, more dangerous parts of the head or body, in certain cases.
     At any rate, this can be said for taking antibiotics, or any other treatment  that people use for a cold or acute sinusitis—many times the body fights off the infection anyway, and whatever medicine or treatment that people are taking or doing when the infection clears up is going to get the credit.
     Your doctor may prescribe a corticosteroid nasal spray to help reduce your sinus congestion and the swelling and inflammation in your mucus membranes.



5.   THE USUAL TREATMENTS FOR CHRONIC SINUSITIS

     The treatment for chronic sinusitis is similar to that for acute sinusitis, at first.  Doctors may prescribe antibiotics for 10 to 12 days, and if that doesn’t work, as it rarely does, they may prescribe a different antibiotic for anywhere to 4 to 6 weeks, which is often effective.  Sometimes it takes months and even a year of antibiotics to effect a cure.
     Steroid nasal sprays can also be prescribed, but the medical community is unsure of the possible side-effects of long-term use of steroid nasal sprays.
     Antihistamines and decongestants may help relieve some of the symptoms, but just a little bit.  These drugs can also make your problem worse, by making the mucus even thicker in your head.
     If the antibiotics and other treatments aren’t effective, then surgery is sometimes recommended.  Surgeons use an endoscope, which is an instrument that they stick up your nose, to open up the drainage holes in your sinuses and clear out some of the infected pus and tissue.  Surgery provides immediate relief—significant relief—but it often does not provide a permanent cure.  
     What you will learn in this book is how to clear out the infected schmoo in your sinuses, even more effectively than surgery does, without somebody sticking a machine up your nose.



6.  THE COLD

     The common cold is caused by several different viruses, in fact over a hundred of them. They have names like maxilovirus and rhinovirus.  The rhinoviruses are the cause of more than half of the colds that people get.
     Colds mostly start in the nose, but they can also thrive in the lungs, the ears, and the sinuses, leading to sinusitis.
     A cold usually lasts for a week, sometimes two weeks, or more for some nasty strains, or if your immune system handles it well, only 2 or 3 days.  A cold makes you sneeze, makes your nose run, stuffs up your nose, makes your throat rough or sore or hoarse, and you can get mild chills or fever, and you might get a headache, and you might just feel funky and tired and sick.
    Sometimes, a cold won’t cause any symptoms at all, and it will clear up in the same amount of time.
     A cold starts when a virus gets into your nose.  Your nose actually helps the virus get to the back of nose, to where it can infect a nasal cell. The virus latches onto a receptor, called an ICAM-1, on the nasal cell, which plugs into the virus and draws it into the healthy cell.  Once inside, the cold virus infects the cell and makes multiple copies of itself.  Then the infected cell dies and explodes, releasing all the new cold viruses into the tissue and mucus inside the nose, and spreads to other cells in the nose.  This takes about 8 to 12 hours for this cycle to happen.  About 10 to 12 hours after this, cold symptoms begin to appear.  About 12 hours after that, the cold symptoms may seem their worst, although it may take longer for the symptoms to reach their peak.
     Cold viruses don’t attack very many cells in the mucus membrane, so damage to the membrane is minimal.  The symptoms are due to the body reacting against the infection.
The immune system releases many substances, such as prostaglandins and histamines, which makes the blood vessels get bigger and begin to leak, and makes the mucus glands begin working overtime, in order to flush out the viruses.  These substances also make you cough and sneeze in order to expel the viruses, which helps you get rid of them, and also helps the virus to spread to other humans.
    This manual shows you how to use saline solution to help get rid of the cold viruses, the toxins from the infected and ruptured nasal cells, the bacteria that take advantage of the viral infection to cause their own infection, and most of the substances that the body releases to inflame and swell up your sinus and nasal tissues, which often leads to sinusitis.  Once you get rid of this toxic schmoo, your nose and sinuses and throat will quickly recover.



7.  THINKING OUTSIDE THE TISSUE BOX

     About a year after I developed the technique put forth in this book, the Mayo Clinic of Rochester, Minnesota released a study, led by Dr. Jens Ponikau and Dr. David Sheriss, which explains why it works.
     Until the study, it was believed in the medical community that chronic sinus infection was caused by the bacterial infection that set into the nasal tissues after they had been inflamed by viral infections.  It was believed that toxic proteins were released by the infected cells into the surrounding tissues of the nose and sinuses.  Doctors have therefore targeted their treatment to curing the surrounding tissues, with various prescription drugs and antibiotics.  This is common sense, because that is what works with most infections.
     What the Mayo Clinic study discovered is that in a chronic sinus infection, the white blood cells, called eosinophils, respond to an infection by getting together in the nasal mucus and the sinus mucus, and they release a toxic protein, called major basic protein, into the mucus.  It’s the poison inside the mucus, which we see as greenish or yellowish snot, which damages the nasal and sinus membranes.
    The study suggests that surgeons focus on removing the infected mucus during nasal surgery to prevent the disease from coming back.
     So there you have it—get rid of the infected mucus, with the toxic major basic protein, and it will stop damaging the mucus membranes in the nasal passages and sinuses, and the bacteria will stop infecting the damaged tissue.  
    What’s the best and safest way to flush out this infected mucus?  It is saline solution—salt water—which you will make yourself, and administer to yourself in the most effective manner, and soon you will be breathing free, with sinuses as clear as you can remember.  Perhaps, you may be smelling things that you haven’t smelled for quite some time. They may be fragrances that you miss, and some of them may be dreadful funks you wish you’d never experienced.  If this technique does not work, then at least you can narrow down the real cause of your sinus problem.



PART II

8.  MAKING YOUR OWN SALINE SOLUTION

     Saline solution is just another term for salt water.  You can buy a bottle of saline solution in a drugstore, and that would work just fine.  However, the store-bought saline solution will contain a preservative, to keep things from growing in the water, and some people will find the preservative to be irritating to their mucus membranes.  Store-bought saline is also expensive, and the quantities required will make you hesitant.
     It’s cheap and easy to make your own saline, a gallon at a time.  Buy a one-gallon plastic bottle of distilled or osmosis-purified water.  I always buy distilled, because the water has been boiled.  The water usually has an expiration date.
     Don’t buy a regular bottle of regular drinking water or spring water.  This water contains more contaminants than you think—not enough to make you sick if you drink it, but you don’t want to add them to the other germs you are working to get out of your sinuses.
     Buy some table salt without iodine.  Iodine is an irritant to some people.  Sea salt is okay, as long as it has the same size grains as table salt.  Pickling and canning salt is the very best, because it doesn’t have any additives (calcium silicate) to keep the salt grains from sticking together.  Avoid kosher salt, because the anti-caking agent may cause a strong burning sensation in your nose.
     The best saline solution has the ratio 2 grams salt for 98 milliliters of water.  This is about 78 grams of salt to the gallon.  Do the math, and make it practical, it works out to be 10 teaspoons of salt poured into one gallon of distilled water.  Shake it up.
    
     Now you have plenty of saline solution, enough to get rid of the toxic schmoo in your nasals and sinuses.  If you are concerned about germs growing in your gallon of salt water, then make a new batch every month, or every time you feel a cold coming on.



9.  THE POWER OF SALT

     Why does salt water work?  Simply put, germs need water, and salt takes the water away from the germs.  
     There are two kinds of saline solution.   Isotonic solution has the same concentration of salt as the human body.  Hypertonic solution is saltier than the water in the human body.
     Infected and inflamed secretions, like the ones in your sinuses when you have sinus infections and colds, are excessively sticky.   Allergies make your secretions sticky, and people over forty have stickier secretions.  That’s why Old Men have a stereotype of being phlegmy.   Hypertonic solutions thin the sticky secretions and make them easier to wash out of your sinuses.
     Hypertonic solutions shrink swollen tissues by drawing out the excess moisture.   When the swollen tissues shrink, the openings of the sinuses (the ostia) get bigger, and all the infected pus and snot can drain better.
     Hypertonic solutions wash out particles of pollution, fungus, and mold, so that your body won’t have an allergic reaction to them.
     Finally, hypertonic solution soothes infected or irritated tissue, helps it heal, and helps the cilia in your nasal membranes function better.  It’s safe for people of all ages, even children.



10.  THE SQUIRT BOTTLE

          You aren’t going to squirt the saline up your nose, but rather pour it in slowly; it helps to have the right applicator.  The best is a 4-ounce plastic travel bottle with a spout that folds open and shut.  You may or may not find them in a local outdoors store, or a luggage store, and you can definitely find them at R.E.I., online if you have to, or at a Container Store, if you have one where you live.  You may possibly find a 3 oz. bottle, which is fine, in the travel-size section of a drugstore or department store. They are becoming easier to find, because these bottles are what you have to put liquids in when you fly on an airplane.
     If you can’t find one anywhere, then you can just use any plastic bottle with a spout that squirts, like a Rubbermaid picnic bottle or a kitchen squeeze bottle.
     The best, once again, is a small travel squeeze bottle, which is listed as a 4 oz. bottle, but actually holds about 5 oz. or about 140 milliliters.  Fill it up from the gallon of saline solution.  Keep the small bottle in your shower, but store the gallon bottle somewhere else.

NOTE:  The Neilmed Sinus Rinse bottle can be used for this.


(Insert illustration of 4 ounce plastic bottle here.)



11.  WARNINGS: DON'T DO ANYTHING UNTIL YOU READ THESE

     The same pustulence that causes your sinuses to be infected can also get into other
places in your head.  Heed these warnings and it won’t.

     WHENEVER YOU BLOW SNOT AND PHLEGM AND PUS OUT OF YOUR NOSE, ALWAYS BLOW IT OUT ONE NOSTRIL ONLY.  Press the other nostril closed with your finger.  IF YOU DO OTHERWISE, YOU CAN BLOW THE INFECTION INTO YOUR EARS OR THE PART OF YOUR NOSE WHERE YOUR SENSE OF SMELL IS.

     NEVER BLOW YOUR NOSE AS HARD AS YOU CAN.  THIS CAN BLOW THE INFECTION INTO YOUR EARS OR THE PART OF YOUR NOSE WHERE YOUR SENSE OF SMELL IS.  Blow very very very gently.  Let the gravity do the work of removing the saline and infected mucus.

     DO NOT TURN YOUR HEAD TO THE SIDE WHEN YOU HAVE SALINE SOLUTION IN YOUR NASAL PASSAGES.  Gravity can cause the infection to get into your Eustachian tube and ears..

     DO NOT RUB YOUR EYES IN THE SHOWER AFTER YOU HAVE BLOWN INFECTED MUCUS OUT OF YOUR NOSE.  THIS CAN CAUSE THE INFECTION TO GET IN YOUR EYE.  Use the top of your wrist to wipe the water out of your eyes.

     You are also going to be bending over forward in the shower.  The shower is not a good place to find out that bending over makes you dizzy.  Practice it first before you get in a shower, no matter how young and fit and healthy you assume that you are.  Stand in front of a bed or couch or a carpeted floor.  Slowly bend forward as far as you can comfortably bend, and look between your legs at the crotch.  Slowly stand up erect.  Bend over and stand up again several more times to make sure, before you get in the shower.  If you do get dizzy, see a doctor.  You may have some blockage in your carotid arteries—the ones in your neck that provide blood to your brain.

     Figure out which direction you will be bending over in the shower.  Preferably, it’s the side away from the shower head.  Take everything out of this side of the shower, so that you don’t mistakenly grab it and fall down.

     If the thought of falling in the shower bothers you, you can also perform this technique standing on a towel next to the running hot shower or other source of running water, and wash the towel after you create a mess.  In fact, hot running water is not essential to this technique—but the steam provided by the hot water helps loosen the phlegm and pustulence in your sinuses.




12.  THE FLIP-TURN SINUS FLUSH

     Saline solution works best when it is warm.  Place the filled squeeze bottle in a cup or glass of hot tap water before you get in the shower.  It is not necessary, just slightly more comfortable.  Don’t submerge the top of the squeeze bottle in the hot tap water, because water from your hot water heater has things you don’t want to know about.  When the bottle is warm, put it in your shower.
     Turn on your shower as hot as is comfortable and jump in.  The heat and the steam will loosen the mucus in your nose and nasal cavity.  After a minute or so in the shower, press your right nostril closed with your right index finger, and very, very, very gently and slowly blow out the open left nostril, into your hands.  Rinse the hands off, then close the left nostril with your left finger and blow out the open right nostril.  Wash off your hands with soap.

(Insert illustration of nostril clearing here.)

     Years ago when I worked at a TV station, I had a friend named Lynette, a pretty young girl with a punky haircut.   She was also the first person I met who was a practitioner of yoga.  For her yoga class, Lynette was required to be filmed doing her yoga positions, and I was, of course, the videographer.  She mentioned something that stuck with me, about breathing.  According to the principles of yoga, one nostril of your nose is always open, and the other one is constricted.  The nose then switches, so the other nostril opens up, and the open side closes.
     Medical science tells us the same thing, that the blood vessels on one side of the nose swell up with blood, on purpose, to close off that side of the nose to air.  This gives the cilia in the closed nostril a chance to clean out all the pollution and mucus.  When it’s clean, it opens up and the other side is closed to repeat the process.  The things that swell up to close your nostrils are called turbinates.
     Keep this in mind when you are blowing your nose.  One side will always seem more congested than the other, even if it’s clean.

     Step One: Spread your feet so they are about 2 feet apart, for better stability in the shower.  Stand so that the water stream is hitting you on the butt, so that when you bend over, water doesn’t flow down to your face.  Take the squeeze bottle, tilt your head back slowly, and squeeze as much saline solution as you can into each nostril.  TILT YOUR HEAD BACK VERY SLOWLY AND CAREFULLY, BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE CAN EXPERIENCE NECK PROBLEMS IF THEY TILT THEIR HEAD BACK QUICKLY.
      Note:  If the water goes immediately down your throat, say the word “Go”.  Notice how your throat closes off at the beginning of the letter G.  That is how you close off your throat when you are filling your nostrils.    
      After you have filled both of your nostrils, pinch them shut.  Set down the squeeze bottle.  Then, very slowly bend forward, at the waist, until you can look between your legs at the crotch.  If you have balance problems, use the fingertips of the hand that is not pinching the nose to make a three-point stance, just like a football player makes before the ball is hiked, to be extra safe.
     When you are still bent over, release the hand from your nostrils.  Some water will come out of the nostrils, and some will percolate into your nasal cavity and sinuses.
Stay in this position for 5 to 10 seconds.
    
      DO NOT TURN YOUR HEAD TO EITHER SIDE, OR THE INFECTION COULD GO INTO YOUR EAR CANAL.  There is a low chance of this happening, but it is possible.  An ear infection can be treated with antibiotics.
    
The first few times you do this, it may feel uncomfortable to have saline and water up your nose.  You will probably feel a burning sensation. This is due to the fact that the pH of the hypertonic saline solution is different from the pH of the water in your body.  This will not affect the power or safety of the saline solution, just the comfort level.  The comfort you are looking for is to get rid of sinus problems.  You will get used to the burning sensation, to the point where it doesn’t bother you anymore.  

The burning will not damage your sense of smell.  In fact, it will improve it.  I keep a small bottle of Dr.Bronner’s Peppermint Pure-Castile Soap in the shower.  It’s the soap with the "interesting" blue label that you can find in most health-food stores like Whole Foods.  When I’m sick I can barely smell it, but after a saline flush the smell will be strong enough to give me a jolt.

(Insert illustration of bent-over position on this page.)

     Next, bend halfway up, so that you’re looking straight down, and your face is facing the floor of the shower.  Close the right nostril with your right finger, gently blow out the left nostril.  Open both nostrils, then close the left nostril with the left finger, and blow gently out the open right nostril.

(Insert illustration of halfway bent-over position here)

     Very slowly stand up straight, and wash the snot off of your hands.  DO NOT RUB THE WATER OUT OF YOUR EYES WITH YOUR HANDS, OR YOUR EYES MAY GET INFECTED!  Use the top of one of your wrists to wipe the water out of your eyes.

DO NOT TURN AROUND TO FACE THE SHOWERHEAD, UNTIL YOU HAVE STOOD UP STRAIGHT.  IF YOU TWIST WHILE YOU ARE STANDING UP, IT WILL INCREASE THE POSSIBILITY OF GETTING DIZZY.

     Step Two: Tilt your head back and fill both nostrils with saline solution for the second time.  Pinch your nose, slowly bend all the way down again, release your nostrils, and wait 5-10 seconds.  Slowly stand all the way back up this time.  Close the left nostril and blow out the open right nostril.  Open the left nostril, close the right nostril, and blow gently out the open left nostril.
     Rinse the schmoo off of your hands.  Wash your hands with soap, just to make sure they are clean.

     Step Three: Tilt your head back slowly, and fill both nostrils with saline solution for the third time. Pinch your nose again, bend over all the way so you can look through your legs at the crotch, and release the nostrils.  Wait about 10 seconds, and slowly stand all the way back up straight.  Don’t blow your nose this time.  Let whatever is in your nose and sinuses drain slowly out of your nostrils, while the hot water of the shower falls on your chest.  Put a finger across your top lip if you don’t like the salty water getting in your mouth.
     After about 20 seconds, snort inward, so the mucus goes into your throat, then do some hawking, and spit it out of your mouth.  Repeat once or twice.  Then, close one nostril, and blow out the open nostril as slowly and gently as you can.  Open both nostrils, then close the opposite nostril, and blow out the open nostril as slowly and gently as you can.
     If you still feel congested, you may repeat Step One and Step Two, or you can repeat Step Two twice.  Remember, one of your nostrils will always be closed or partly closed anyway, so don’t expect that you can breathe clearly through both nostrils.

     Be sure to wash your hands thoroughly with soap before you get out of the shower.  Also use soap to wash the outside of the squeeze bottle.

     An examination of the nasty material coming out of your nose may give you an indication of your sinus problem.  If it is thick and yellowish or yellowish-brown, you most likely have a bacterial or viral infection.  If the snot is the usual greenish or clear stuff, your problem may likely be the result of an allergy, or from mold or fungus.  If you have had a chronic infection, a strange alien-looking ball of gel may come out, after which you will experience a dramatic improvement in your breathing.  
     Some blood may come out.  This comes from the damaged tissues in the nose and sinuses.  The best treatment for minor bleeding in the nasal region is saline irrigation, which is what you are already doing.

     Do this procedure at least twice a day, once in the morning when you wake up, and once in the evening before you go to bed.  You may also do it for a third time in the afternoon, or when you come home from work.

     If your sinus infection is in your upper sinuses (sphenoid, frontal, or upper ethmoid) your results may not be as obvious on your first attempt.  Don't give up.

     When you feel that your sinuses have been cleared, continue the procedure twice a day for at least 2 days afterward, to prevent any residual infection from growing back and causing sinus problems again.

     After you have flushed out your sinuses, some saline solution may remain inside your head.  While this is harmless to you, if you bend your head down during the day, a few drops of saline may leak out into the nose, and cause you some unpleasant business.  Keep a facial tissue on your person or nearby at all times.

NOTE:  This procedure looks difficult at first, but it's basically: tilt head back, squirt saline in nose, hold nose, bend over, release nose, stand up, blow nose.
  
   Once your sinuses get cleared out, the cilia start functioning properly, and your sinuses, your sense of smell, your nose, and your breathing just start working better and better as the days go by.

PART III

13.  PREVENT DEFENSE

     The best way to kill your sinus problems is to attack a cold virus with everything you’ve got, before it leads to acute sinusitis.
     The first thing you can do is not get a cold.  Cold viruses are acquired from other people who have a cold.  If somebody with a cold blows their nose, or touches their nose or mouth, or sneezes into their hand, and then shakes hands with you, you will have cold viruses on your hand.  If you then touch your nose, the viruses will go in, and your nose will escort the germs further into your nose.
     If a cold sufferer with viruses on his hand touches a pen, a keyboard, a doorknob, a dime, or anything, the viruses collect on the object.  When you touch the object, and then touch your own nose or mouth, you will get the germs.
     What’s the best defense?  Don’t touch your face, and especially your nose, with the parts of your hand that you touch things.  If you feel the urge to rub your nose or eyes, use the back of your hand.  And of course, if you have to pick your nose, make sure that you have thoroughly scrubbed your hands, or use an alcohol-based hand sanitizer that contains at least 62% ethanol, which hospital studies have shown to be about as effective as washing with soap and water.

     If you find yourself with a little too much phlegm in your throat, or some congestion that is clearly not allergy-related, or your throat is beginning to get soar, hit the shower as soon as you can and use the saline solution to flush out the cold viruses and infected nasal cells and toxins, before they have a chance to establish themselves in your sinuses.  You will never be able to beat all the colds that attack you, but you can beat most of them.

     Drink as much water as you can tolerate.  Filling your body with water dilutes the mucus in your head, throat, and lungs, and helps the body get rid of the microbes and their toxic waste.

     As any practitioner of Chinese medicine, most organic/natural food enthusiasts, or an experienced doctor will tell you, there are four things that can increase the thickness of your mucus, and create a lot of phlegm, so avoid them while you are fighting the onset of a cold, or clearing up your sinusitis.
• Cut way back on milk products.  Milk on your cereal, cream in your coffee, those are okay, but knock off the glasses of milk and ice cream while you are sick.  If you want to see the effects of dairy products, drink a milkshake or a glass of eggnog when you are healthy, and see what happens to your phlegm levels.
• Stay away from white flour, like you find in cakes, cookies, white bread, and pastries.  White flour is a phlegm-maker.
• Moderate your sweets.  Sugar is a phlegm producer.  Eat a piece of a chocolate bar, to get a clear demonstration.
• Lower the use of alcohol.  Alcohol thickens the mucus in your head and lungs, and lowers your immune resistance.  

     If you start getting chills, you may have the flu instead of a cold.  Flush your head with saline before bed, jump in bed with as many covers as you can find, and sweat it out.  It won’t be a great night’s sleep, but there’s a very good chance you can beat the flu virus.  If you don’t, go see a doctor or deal with the flu the way you usually do.
Does saline solution work against the flu?  It might if you get to the flu virus soon enough, but that is something I am not going to talk about in this book.  The flu, if not treated properly, can be fatal to some people.  In fact, it is fatal to 1% of its victims.  I personally wouldn’t seek alternative medicine for a possibly fatal disease, so I wouldn’t recommend it to you.
    
     It’s true, what your grandmother said, that chicken soup helps a cold.  Chicken soup actually loosens phlegm in your head and lungs, and helps your body clear it out.
It also helps activate the cilia in your nose and lungs.  

     Another folk remedy is to drink apple cider vinegar, which its proponents claim will thin out your mucus.  I’ve never tried it—sounds a little too groovy for me—but you can look it up on the internet if you want to try it.

     A food that certainly helps clear out the congestion in your head is the chile pepper.  In fact, the active ingredient in all hot peppers, capsaicin, is being used by some doctors to treat sinusitis.  But forget about active ingredients, eat some spicy hot food.
Cajun food, Mexican food, Thai food, Szechuan food, red chile, green chile, jalapeños, Tabasco, and habañeras.  If it makes your scalp sweat, and your nose to run, it’s like medicine.  

     What about the “natural” cures for a cold?  Some people take zinc lozenges to ward off a cold.  Scientific studies that have been done show that zinc lozenges do not work, but not enough testing has been done to see if they work at higher doses.  Definitely don’t use a zinc spray, because some people claim it has caused anosmia, which is the loss of the sense of smell.

     I always believed, instinctively, that echinacea was a fad cure for a cold, and a study sponsored by the government’s National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine lends support to that view.  It found that the subjects who took echinacea caught just as many colds, had the same amount of virus in their snot, and had cold symptoms just as severe as the people who took a placebo.  As the director of the center, Dr. Stephen E. Straus said, “It’s a product with remarkable traction.  It has that traction because of a combination of folklore, myth and word of mouth which is much more than the science has borne out.”  Medical science is full of unknowns, and maybe it works for some people at a different dose.   Scientifically, echinacea follows the Last Cure Rule:  Whatever people are taking or doing when the illness goes away gets the credit.

     The only non-prescription medicine I take when I feel a cold or flu coming on is a Chinese herb combination called Ganmaoling.  It comes in the form of little yellow sugar-coated pills, and you take 4 of them every 4 hours.  If they don’t help stop a cold in two days, I stop taking them, because the anti-viral properties of Ganmaoling only work before the cold or flu has been established in your head.  It’s entirely possible that Ganmaoling follows the Last Cure Rule, but I’m assured by the fact that it has been field tested by a large number of Chinese for several centuries.

     Drinking hot tea works very well, not just for the steam effect while you are drinking it, but the warmth helps, and tea gets the cilia in your lungs and sinuses into gear.

     During your battle against a cold or sinusitis, it helps to place a warm towel or one of those rubbery hot water bottles over your face, because the warmth will help loosen the congestion in your head and face, and warm up the cilia to a temperature where they work better.

     Don’t hold your head over a steam source or do any intense steaming of your nasal passages.  At too high of a temperature the cilia temporarily stop working. The steam from a hot shower is just warm enough to get the cilia working, but not hot enough to shut them down.

     For a sore throat, gargling with a 3% hydrogen peroxide solution will kill the germs in your throat, and provide some relief.

     Never discount anything that has worked for you in the past, such as vaporizers, humidifiers, anti-histamines, steam-baths, saunas, or anything your ancestors have handed down.  My wife comes from a culture that considers Vicks Vapo-Rub to be the cure for every problem with the respiratory system, and it seems to work, as she rarely stays sick very long. In fact, some doctors have observed in their practices that the essential oils in Vicks are effective in relieving cold symptoms.  


14.   GERMOPHOBIA

     The best way to avoid a cold or sinus problem is to avoid the viruses, bacteria, fungi, microbes, and germs that cause them.  The most effective way to avoid them is to not shake hands with a sick person, avoid their sneezes and coughs, and not put your finger in your nose without making sure your finger is clean.
     This advice, by doctors and other health professionals, can be taken too far, and creep into the realm of germophobia, where people become obsessed about microbes lurking on every surface.
    As it turns out, germs can be found on some expected places, some unexpected places, and places you’d least suspect, while other surfaces are much safer than you would expect.

     A classic fear is the public toilet seat, but there are many more surfaces that can cause a greater chance of catching an illness.  The toilet seat most likely contains bacteria that cause gastrointestinal diseases, which, ironically, are the diseases we least fear to catch.

     Many people eat at their desks at work, and they rarely clean them, so a desk can have many times as many bacteria as a toilet seat.

     Some people have a 5-second rule about dropping food on the floor.  They think that food doesn’t have time to acquire germs in less than 5 seconds, so it’s okay to pick the food up and eat it.  This rule is generally correct—most microbes require moisture to grow and thrive, and most floors are dry, so the floor is one of the cleaner places in a room.  Apparently, it’s more dangerous to drop food on your desk than on the floor.

     This rule doesn’t apply in the restroom, where the floor usually is wetter, and the floor may be more contaminated than the feared toilet seat.

     A recent study was done in an elementary school, to find the greatest source of germs.  Schools are germ factories, and most cold viruses originate in the noses of children, who average 6 to 10 colds a year, vs. 2 or 3 for the average adult.
Children may or may not wash their hands after using the restroom, there may or may not be soap in the restroom, and paper towels are often not present.
     It turns out that most of the germs don’t come from the restrooms; they come from the cafeteria and drinking fountains.  The trays in the cafeteria are swarming with bacteria, and generally have a higher concentration of bacteria than the dreaded toilet seat. The highest germ count is in the cafeteria drinking fountain.  Of course, that’s where the water is, and germs need water to grow.
    
     The worst surface in public is no surprise.  It’s the handle of a grocery cart. All the bacteria from food residue picked up from shoppers’ hands is left to fester at room temperature; with many different hands per day, it adds up to about 1,000 colonies of bacteria per square inch.

     What’s the most dangerous surface in the hospital?  Once again, it’s not the toilet seat.  It’s not the doctor, or the nurse, or the surgical instruments.  It’s the TV remote control, according to a University of Arizona study by Professor Chuck Gerba, known popularly as “The Germ Doctor”.  The TV remote, on average, had the highest numbers of drug-resistant staph bacteria, which is the leading cause of death and illness in the hospital.

     It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that other electronic items with tiny buttons and keys may also be teeming with bacteria and viruses.   You can’t wash your hands every time you touch one of these objects, so just follow the general rule—don’t touch your face with your fingers, until you have thoroughly washed your hands.

     Professor Gerba also tested around the office, a hundred of them, where the phone, personal digital assistants, desk drawers, and computer keyboards harbored loads of germs.  The most contaminated places are the bottom of women’s purses and men’s wallets.  Lastly, he noted that the average desk has 400 times more germs than the average toilet seat.

I spent most of my life thinking that soap kills germs.  I was wrong.  Soap makes your hands and other parts of your body too slippery for bacteria, so they slide off the body when you rinse them with water.  Apparently, a lot of the bacteria remain.

     What’s up with the anti-bacterial soap that seems to be everywhere?  Is this a good idea?  The answer is yes and no.  Anti-bacterial soap actually kills the germs and allows them to be washed away.   Unfortunately, it doesn’t kill all the bacteria, and some of the ones that are left are resistant to the chemicals in anti-bacterial soap, and these bacteria multiply.  It’s the power and glory of evolution in real time.  The Nonprescription Drugs Advisory Committee, which advises the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, were told by experts that anti-bacterial soaps are no more effective than regular soap in reducing illness, and in fact, they may possibly help accelerate the development of antibiotic-resistant bacteria.
     The most effective way to remove bacteria and viruses from your hands is to wash them with regular soap for 15 to 30 seconds, and rinse them with cold water.

     However, look no farther than the rest of your skin for a rich source of germs.  From the New York University School of Medicine, this:  human skin has 182 species of bacteria.  Microbiologist Dr. Martin Blaser notes that the bacteria are part of our body, providing some protection to the skin.  “There are as many different species in our skin as there are in a good zoo,” he said. Knowing this, should we be washing so often?  
    
     The odd truth is that we need some bacteria, and we need to get sick every once in a while.  The polio epidemic in the United States started in the 1930’s after the nation’s water supply was cleaned up, and children under 3 years old stopped getting the polio microbe, at an age when they safely develop immunity.  The rate of asthma has skyrocketed in Japan, possibly as a result of many Japanese becoming super-clean sterile-freaks.  So forget about ridding yourself of all germs.  Your body’s immune system is set up to kill unwanted intruders, and if there’s nothing to kill, your immune system may attack you.
     The germs you do want to destroy are the ones in your head.  Keep a bottle of saline solution at hand, and breathe free.  If you smell something wonderful, or if you smell something horrendous, just be glad you can smell it all.



15. ALLERGIES

     Saline flushes can only temporarily relieve the symptoms of allergies in the nose and sinuses.  It can help clear the sinuses so that a bacterial or viral infection won’t set into the accumulated mucus.
     The best ************** for allergic rhinitis (a runny nose) is 10 milligrams of montelukast sodium (Singulair), which is available by prescription, or 240 milligram of pseudoephedrine hydrochloride (Sudafed).  According to a study by the University of Chicago, the two drugs are equally effective, even though the prescription drug costs 4 times as much.  The study was funded by the makers of the prescription drug. However, both drugs work in different ways, so one of them may work better for you than the other.
     The best natural treatment for allergies is capsules of stinging nettle leaf, also known simply as nettle leaf.  There are studies that suggest that magnesium lessens the body’s reaction to allergens, and nettle leaf is a rich source of magnesium.
    If your sinus problems are not going away after doing a saline flush, I’d recommend taking pseudoephedrine or Singulair, just to determine that your sinus problems are or are not caused by an allergy.

     In the end, when you have cleared your sinuses, you should be able to walk a block with your mouth shut.  If not, go see a doctor, again.

ADDENDUMS BY DR. ENOCH CHOI, M.D.

- pseudoephedrine hydrochloride (Sudafed) is now OTC behind-the-counter since too many drug manufacturers bought it to boil down to methamphetamines.  People can still get it, they just have to ask for it to be given to them.

- for allergic rhinitis, in addition to singulair and sudafed, there are other treatments: nasal steroids, nasal antihistamines, and nasal anticholinergics can help, and to get to the root cause, get allergy shots for desensitization

- even before you can walk a block with your mouth shut, a doctor can help you get there faster...



SOURCES

http://www.mayoclinic.com

Sinusitis, NIAID Fact Sheet  http://niaid.nih.gov/factsheets/sinusitis.htm

http://www.drmirkin.com

http://www.merck.com

Dr. Murray Grossan, Cedars Sinai Medical Center, http://www.sinus-allergies.com

Report on over-prescription of antibiotics for acute sinusitis published in Archives of Otolaryngology – Head and Neck Surgery, March 2007 issue.

Report on decongestants from University of Chicago, published in Archives of Otolaryngology – Head and Neck Surgery, February 2006 issue.

“What the Experts Say About Washing Your Nose with a Salty Solution”, Dr. Hana R. Solomon, MD, September 9, 2004

“Study Ties Sinusitis to Fungi in the Nose”, by Gabrielle Glaser, New York Times, September 26, 2000

“Sinusitis”, National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, April 2002

“When Trouble Hits Those Holes in Your Head”, by Jane Brody, New York Times, March 15, 2005

Microbiology Professor Chuck Gerba, University of Arizona

Dr. Woodson Merrell, Professor of Medicine, Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons

“There is a Zoo of Microbes on Your Skin”, by Will Dunham, Reuters, published on www.iol.co.za on February 5, 2007

“Experts Refute Anti-Bacterial Soap Claims”, by John J. Lumpkin, Associated Press, October 20,
2005

“Study Says Echinacea Has No Effect on Colds”, by Gina Kolata, New York Times, July 28, 2005



Comments
Post a Comment
by Enoch Choi, MD, Jan 07, 2008 12:34AM
thanks for adding my addendums!

by friggy, Jan 28, 2008 09:59PM
You're welcome.  You are a superb physician.

by hanratti, Feb 08, 2008 02:40PM
Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with all of us sufferers of sinusitis. I have never read such an informative piece on the topic. I shall be passing your info on to my friends. Thanks again  

by raycharlesfreak, Mar 16, 2008 11:49AM
I've been using saline nasal spray (generic) in combination with Nasacort (steroid nasal spray) and Zicam to keep my sinus problems at bay and to prevent colds.   This isn't an everyday regimen.   And the Zicam is only used when a) I feel those initial symptoms creeping around up there,  or b) when I'm going to or have been exposed beyond certainty to massive aerobic germ concentration, ie on a plane or lengthy periods of time around a sick friend.  In other words, prophylactically.   The saline is used much more frequently, every couple of days.

This procedure is my own recipe of a regimen given to me by a doctor I respect greatly.  I modified it to a form that works for me, and the good news is that IT HAS!   I have been able to thwart those miserable weeks of listless malaise and non-productivity due to head colds.   I do get the occasional cough and mild lung infection, but these have been quite abbreviated in comparison to the previous before now inevitable "cold cycle."  

I am very glad you posted this, and I hope a lot of people who suffer will discover it and take heed.  SALINE WORKS!



by friggy, Mar 25, 2008 11:08AM
Saline does work exceedingly well in preventing colds at the first symptoms. I just stopped another one this weekend.  However, I would use extreme caution in using Zicam.  It has been associated with a permanent loss or distortion of smell in some users, and apparently, according to a news report, the manufacturer has not done any tests on the subject.  Personally, I would never try it, ever, too much to lose.  Google: (Zicam loss of smell) and decide for yourself.

by tronkity, Apr 23, 2008 02:42PM
I'm so happy to have found this post. I've been suffering from a sinus infection since January 2008. Been through two courses of antibiotics and i'm still miserable. I tried this technique in the shower and it is a little strage and took me a couple tries to get used to the feeling of water running through my head but i certainly cleared a bunch of schmoo out of my sinuses. I'm still feeling a lot of pressure and pain so I fear it may be something I can't resolve on my own but I'm sooo tired of anitbiotics. I'm going to try this technique a couple times a day for the next week and hope for the best. This has to be one of the best sinus related web finds ever. Thank you so much for posting this. I would have never thought to try this technique. :)

by friggy, Apr 23, 2008 03:40PM
You're very welcome, tronkity.  It sometimes takes a few weeks to flush it out of your sinuses, but it does work remarkably well, even against stubborn infections.  It sometimes takes a week for the saline to reduce the swelling in your sinus openings so that you can reach the rest of the infection.

Can't say I'm a genius, I only tried it because, like you, I was out of any other options, and I'd been on a swimteam as a kid, so I at least knew water up the nose wouldn't cause further harm.  Keep it up a few days after you are cleared, so it doesn't come back.

by Earle, Apr 27, 2008 02:08PM
I can appreciate your continuous suffering from sinus infections.  As a senior citizen I have suffered from chronic sinus since I was 20 years of age.  I have spent thousands of dollars in attempting to find an answer to my problem including two different sinus operations (one was endoscopic) and these surgeries have shown no improvement.  I have taken over 10 different antibiotics including fungizone (an antifungal medication) and have had no positive results.  Due to ENT doctors over prescribing antibiotics, I now have no taste or smell.  I have spent considerable time researching chronic sinus and it appears that Mayo Clinic has made the proper analysis of chronic sinus.  They claim that over 95% of all chronic sinus conditions are caused by fungus and not bacteria.  Unfortunately, at this time, there is no known cure for chronic sinus.  Mayo Clinic is working with other researchers to develop a medication to treat fungus but those results may be a couple of years away.  Since chronic sinus can produce over a quart of mucus a day in your nasal passages, every sufferer must find a way to rid their nose of this mucus.  Mayo Clinic recommends daily irrigation of your nasal passages with a simple saline solution being the most effective way.   This process founded in South East Asia many generations ago, has brought forth the “Netie Pot” as the popular applicator for nasal flushing.  As the result of my research on this subject, I am in the process of developing a new chronic sinus nasal therapy that incorporates the Mayo studies plus a much improved saline solution called “SinuDoc.”   SinuDoc contains all natural ingredients including regular saline plus menthol and a special formulated herbal tea.  Our herbal tea includes special herbs that many herbalists believe they may control or reduce fungus symptoms.  When we complete our marketing plans for this new product, it will feature a new type of  applicator which will replace the “Netie Pot.”  In our preliminarily testing of SinuDoc, we have had excellent results from our 15 participants.  In my own case, I have (first time in years) experienced cleared passages by doing daily AM flushing and supporting the remainder of the day with 3 oz Target Brand saline spray container which is available at Target Stores.  This 3 oz container is a better flusher than the normal 2 oz spray container found in other saline brands.  We are looking for about another 85 participants to test SinuDoc. If you own a “Netie Pot” and are interested in participating in our test program, I will be pleased to send you a free sample for testing.  You may contact me at ***@****.    

by friggy, Apr 28, 2008 10:59AM
Thank you Mr.Earle.

I am glad that you have finally found relief from your years of suffering, and your discoveries seem to verify my own.  Plain saline has proven very effective, for me, against sinus fungal infection, but if further ingredients help, that's great, I would love to see the results of your tests.  A caveat is that the other ingredients may or may not irritate the nasal membranes of some participants, but that's what testing is for.

My technique requires bending over in a shower, which is increasingly risky as one gets older, so I would certainly welcome the invention of a safe and effective applicator.

Good luck, and let me know how it turns out.

friggy

by playpretty, Jun 04, 2008 08:50AM
wow, I'm going to try this.  I'm at my wit's end with my right ear.  If it were both ears, I'd surely lose my mind.

by misstvlgirl, Aug 22, 2008 03:40AM
Dear Friggy -

I had wisdom tooth extraction last Friday and developed infection in my mouth (incision site) and in my sinuses (through a hole left in sinus cavity from extraction of upper molar).  Dr. just put me on Amoxycillin today (Thursday) and now it is tonight (2 doses later) and I am miserable. I haven't slept last two nights because of awful pressure in my head - pounds (part sinus infection and part mouth infection). The mucus is thick and yellowish brown and smells (and tastes) like rancid jet fuel. Do you think I could do this sinus flush tomorrow and do you think it would relieve all of this pressure I am feeling.  I'm just so tired and comletely at wits end. Should I call my doctor and ask him if I can do a flush or just go for it? If I do the flush do I have to still take the decongestants?

Going crazy in IA

by clu5150, Sep 14, 2008 07:00PM
Hi,  I have been suffering for 10 weeks now with what started out as bronchitis, but, after antibiotics ended up as stuffy nose/sinus pressure with a cough.  I am assuming the cough is no longer bronchitis, but rather, extreme post nasal drip.  I started flushing with warm water mixed with a mall amount of salt.  I was using regular tap water and table salt, warmed to just around body temperature.  I then discussed this with a friend at work, who gave me a recipe for nasal rinse that he got from his doctor.  The recipe was purified water, kosher salt and baking soda. 3 to 1 salt to soda.  I mixed up a batch, and tried it out.  I found that it cause more pain than table salt and tap water, and I also experience something strange.  I started to panic because after the first rinse, I had a strong smell of amonia.  I thought for sure someone had mixed up my solution with some cleaning product!  The smell and pain made me panic.  I rinsed with plain water and blew out as much as I could.  I was ready to call 911 or rush to the hospital (thinking that I had just poisoned myself) but thought I would check the computer for some advise.  I searched "sinus rinse amonia smell" and found that someone had blogged the very same experience.  I assume that there is some reason for this happening, but I've tried to research more and have come up with nothing.  I'm wondering if anyone reading this has had that experience and can explain it to me.  Thanks for the shower technique - I will try it this evening!

by bobbler, Oct 02, 2008 02:23PM
Great post!  I have put up with sinus issues for the past thiry years, had two operations and have taken every available drug and used every available spray on the market, all to no avail!  At my last visit to the doctor, for another reason, he asked if I had any sinus concerns, as I never said anything about them.  I stated there were no improvments that there was a constant drain down the back of my throat.  He tried to give me more drugs/sprays which I refused as they work for a couple of days then they become ineffective.  He recommended that I try saline rinses, but did not instruct how to get the salt water into the sinus cavities.  That brought me to the internet and your posting.  I shall try this starting tonight.  I hoping that once again I will be able to smell and taste food!!

by tednabbysmom, Oct 05, 2008 08:18AM
I've had three sinus surgeries, been treated with every kind of antibiotic under the sun (and now I'm allergic to many of them), irrigated with saline daily (not the flip turn method), and I still get terrible sinus infections.  Right now, the stuff in my head has turned dark green, thick and chunky.  Clearly, the antibiotic that I'm taking isn't working.  Your technique probably wouldn't have worked before my surgeries because I had physical problems with my sinuses.  But, now there are no obvious physical problems.  So, I will give this a try.  

by rickogarbo, Dec 07, 2008 11:54PM
How long did you use this technique before the infection was cured?  I have been following your regimen for two weeks now, and while these treatments always make me feel good, I'm still getting some greenish/yellowish discharge.  Want to avoid sinus surgery as much as possible.  Thanks!

by icantlivelikethis, Feb 04, 2009 03:00PM
I don't really feel any pain in my sinus, or have a hard time breathing.

I always feel like there's something at the top of my throat and have to sniff it out of hawk it up, and I think that might be post nasal drip.  

The thing that I have been suffering from, is bad breat, I mean real bad, people always smell it, I smell it and the taste in my mouth is of ****, and has been for around 5 years.  Didn't have this problem untill my tonsils were taken out.  The doctor cut half my uvula off (don't know if that could have anything to do with it).

I just started your plan today, I am praying so hard that it works for my problem.  I bought the nasaFLO netipot to pour it, it also came with 50 pre packed solution that you just pour into the pot with dist water.  You think I should use these or just mix my own?

by friggy, Feb 09, 2009 12:39PM
dear icantlivelikethis

just use the pre-packed solution.  It probably has some baking soda to change the pH, to make it more comfortable inside your nose, but it works just as well or better.  I personally don't mind the burning sensation of pure salt because it gives me feedback.

The surgery may or may not have introduced the infection that caused the problem, I have no way of knowing either way.  I do know that infections can live in your head indefinitely until you flush them out.

by needtosmellagain, Feb 10, 2009 09:04AM
Are there any pics to go along with this ?  maybe a video would be good?  with clothes on and not in shower lol..

by Cillian, Feb 17, 2009 10:16PM
Very good article, will have to try this out myself.  I still have about 70 of the Neilmed packets left so I'll use them up before mixing my own.  my only sugggestion would be storing the quirt bottle in a better manner.  I would worry that sitting in the shower it might start to collect some unwanted bacteria. I will most likely store mine somewhere dry in a way that the bottle can dry out as well.  
    I am not exactly sure what my issue could be , I have EXTREMLEY thick mucus that I can blow out my nose while taking a hot shower, but after the shower can only be hacked up and out the mouth.  I have to do so at least every 3-5 minutes.  The mucus is clear although it does taste nasty though.   Thanks again for the article glad I came across it.

by friggy, Feb 18, 2009 01:31PM
needtosmellagain<

I'd thought of a video, but I don't want to be known on the internet for that.

friggy.

by jacktess, Feb 24, 2009 12:52PM
by maisie, Feb 24, 2009

I was hoping that the warm Florida weather would help the sinus pain, but no.  There's still a golf ball inside my head - hurts when I shake my head  and when I work out- going on since last August.  Getting checked out by an ent doc when I get home to the frozen north in a couple of weeks, to find out what's going on.  I will certainly be trying your flipturn thing and hope it works better than the neti pot, which does nothing.  Actually I am feeling a bit better since I stopped taking Sudafed and Nasonex two days ago - weird - they weren't helping - so happy to find your web site, thank you for sharing.

maisie

by Cillian, Feb 25, 2009 10:43PM
I have been using the Neilmed packets to mix with the water when I do the flushes.  The other day I was at the store and picked up some canning salt and some distilled water.  I mixed them according to the directions above and tried it.  It did work but not as good as the Neilmed packets do.  It seems like with the Neilmeds I was able to get more mucus out, I switched back to the Neilmeds today and it confirmed my observation.  

by friggy, Feb 27, 2009 04:44PM
to maisie

Yes, you should always go to an ENT with problems like that--as you could have nasal polyps or a sinus cyst or something else.

friggy

by friggy, Feb 28, 2009 09:54AM
To Cillian

The formula I give is for hypertonic saline.  The high salt content draws moisture from the sinus tissues, which shrinks them and makes it easier for the saline and infected mucus to drain.  Swelling is a problem in chronic sinusitis.
The Neilmed packets are isotonic, which means it's the same salinity as your body.  In fact, it would be more effective for removing mucus from non-swollen sinuses, like you might get with an acute infection, and it doesn't mess with the cilia in your nose.  Excellent observation.  I will incorporate the information into the journal.  Thank you very much.

by arthur0227, Mar 02, 2009 03:50PM
Friggy, or anyone else:

I saw another forum post elsewhere that suggested using a small amount of hydrogen peroxide in the solution.  Here's the link: http://my.att.net/p/s/community.dll?ep=16&groupid=258015&ck=#Topice

The author does mention that it will sting more but also seems to believe that the germ-killing properties of the peroxide outweigh any discomfort it might cause.  I'm interested to hear people's thoughts on using peroxide, at any concentration.  Thanks very much.

by friggy, Mar 03, 2009 11:27AM
arthur0227

Interesting proposition.  The reasons why I won't try it is: A) it introduces the possibility of an unknown complication, and
B)  The purpose of the Flip-Turn Sinus Flush is to wash the infection out of your nose, rather than killing it.  I trust the body's natural ability to attack infections, once it is no longer overwhelmed by a mass of infected mucus.  Thanks for the input.


by silkysoft, Apr 17, 2009 09:26AM
Hi ,very fasinating read such a totally sensible informative piece of writing  ..thank you ....

this may sound crazy ...after weeks and weeks of suffering a chronic headache and face ache ,with a thumping head and thick congested feeling ,dry nasal passages with a clear bubbly constant post nasal drip and tickly cough ...worse at night finally in desperation after my GP had tried umpteen so clled CURES ...I paid to see a ENT consultant privately ..in the U K this is possible to arrange  in 1 day ....same guy you would wait 3/5 mnths for on NHS .. cost was £220.... including an examination of ear .nose and throat ,a spray to numb the throat and I deep penetration up the nose into the throat and voice box with a camera .
Results were Acid Reflux ....I was shocked as I had no heartburn,acid indigestion or any discomfort...I do not even eat spicy foods ...My consultant explained that there is always mucus dripping down the throat which we normally are not aware of ...just as you say in your article ..otherwise we would all be unable to speak as our throat and voice boxes would be too dry.The acid reflux can cause little puffs of stomach gases which are none tasting or feeling  to come up and tickle and dry out our throats ..causing the mucas to thicken and be more profuse ...we then become  aware of the  mucas in our throats , by constantly sniffing,snorting,clearing our throat the nasal drip worsen as we were fighting our own body ,sniff ,cough spit causes dryness and we make more mucas to wet it again ...a vivciuos circle ....he prescribed small sipps of water and Gavison Liquid .has to be liquid as any other form of indigestion remedy is too drying ...YES Gaviscon ..I tried it and blow me it worked ...he also recommeded putting the whole facial area  in a bowl of warm water salt solution ...1 teaspoon full to 4/5 pints of water ...and gently drawing up the water into the nostrils ...and blowing it gently out again for about 3/5 mins ..in the morning and again before bedtime , sleeping with the windows open but NOT in a draught.
So much like your remedy ....if I had read yours first it may have saved me £220 pounds .
Lorna UK


by friggy, Apr 21, 2009 11:31AM
Thank you Miss Lorna.  I've seen this more than once lately, so I'd better rewrite my journal to include it.  That's an interesting technique your doctor thought of, seems very effective, like swimming in the ocean (without the sharks).  You may also want to try a Neilmed Sinus Rinse, which is effective for the lower sinuses and throat.  It's just taking off in the states, and will probably reach the UK soon.

by Tammy2009, Apr 23, 2009 08:41PM
I must try this method, I have been using the typical neilmed system twice a day (3-4 times a day when I got a cold) for the last 3 months.  Definetly has helped with the allergies which are probably the cause of my stuffy nose.  It has not been completely clear for the last 4 years since the allergies started.

Unfornately I can not use pseudoephephrine, the one time I tried claritin-D 12 hour, so only 120mg, I got so dizzy and super fast heart rate I thought I was dying and couldn't move.  None of the other antihistamines clear the nose at all and barely help with the other symptoms.  I haven't tried singulair because I have reactive airways that are finally doing well on inhaled steriods and I started allergy shots 2 weeks ago, so I don't want to change the medication for that in case it causes a flare up that would hinder me continuing to get the shots.  

I do like the "alien-like balls of gel" because I have got probably a dozen or so of these out in the time I use the rinse.  Freaky the first time or two but now I enjoy blowing them out because I know I'll be able to breathe for a day or so.  

I can tell that the rinse doesn't get everything though because when I don't have an "infection" (labelled by me not getting any yellow or green discharge out), there is still muscous sliding down my throat and not letting me breathe.  This happens even when the whole rinse comes out clear with nothing.  So we'll see how your method works on this stubborn snot :)

by tobo, Apr 24, 2009 12:28PM
Hi, thanks so much for posting this info!!! I too have a smelly nose, lots of clear runny mucus  (constantly,  from an allergy) and sometimes chunks of manky stuff coming out.  I've had antibiotics, steroid nasal sprays and been doing basic nasal irrigation for so long - nothing works!! My CT Scan results just showed swollen/inflamed sinuses and i'm waiting for skin ***** test to find out what i'm allergic to (purely because i wasn't happy with nothing being done!!).  I was convinced that I must have a fungus infection in my sinuses because of the manky balls of gunk that drops out of my nose- nothing like snot or bogies!! but nothing showed up in the scan!!! so where does it come from? I had my tonsils out 10 years ago due to constant Strep A infections and tonsiliths but now have this smelly nose problem in its place...I'm going to try the 'Flip Turn Sinus Flush' and see what relief I get from this tecnique...


by friggy, Apr 27, 2009 02:13PM
To Tammy and tobo

I am beginning to suspect that when the gel chunks come out, that they are a result of fungal infections in the upper sinuses--the sphenoid and the frontal ones.  Those are the ones that sprays, antibiotics, and saline rarely reach, due to gravity. Sometimes the passageways to those sinuses get swollen and clogged, so it may take a few flip-turns to clear that path, before the majority of the infected mucus drains out.

by tobo, Apr 27, 2009 02:50PM
To friggy

Thanks for taking the time to reply, I've tried your technique over the weekend and my problem does seem to be improving.  I've done the Flip Turn in the morning and evening then the usual irrigation inbetween, althought i've not got any gunky-stuff out, the smell isn't present all the time (so far, so good!) and it does relieve some of the discomfort for a while.  I think, as you state in your on-line book, that the salt-water reduces and calms the swelling/inflamation etc...


By the way, the chunks of 'gunk' that I have 'parted with' are nothing like gel, they have been  thick and  greyish - almost like (I know this is disgusting-sorry, hope you're not eating ah-ah) mouldy cauliflower in texture and appearance.  I saved some in a sterile, air-tight container,  to show my ENT consultant, but over the course of a couple of days it shrunk and turned totally black.  This made me think that it couldn't be normal mucus/snot/bogies etc - could it???

I'm not convinced that having allergy tests will solve my problem...as I feel sure there's somethin else going on, I've had allergies/hayfever for years without having the 'smelly nose' problem which seems to  tie in with either: an ear infection I got from a swimming pool;  a new dog (not had a pet before) or a cold virus.  These all happened around the same time, so may be anyone of them I suppose.  But anyway, as I said in my first post, no infection/fungus showed in my sinus scan anyway...

Thanks again for your valuable input...it's greatly appreciated. I'm so glad I found this site - I know I'm not going insane now!! Good luck to all you other sufferers!!

tobo




by friggy, Apr 28, 2009 07:47AM
To tobo

Months after I finally cleared out my horrific chronic infection, I went to a school camp and slept in a moldy cabin.  The next day my nose started running profusely, clear mucus, for days, with very little congestion, until I could get home and flush it properly.  Molds and fungi can take many forms, and I am guessing, from experience and from the claims made by the Mayo Clinic, that once you flush out the manky stuff (thanks for the new vocab), your symptoms will dissipate.  I'd also recommend nettle leaf capsules.  The magnesium appears to reduce allergic reactions in many people.

by Cjako, Apr 28, 2009 05:16PM
Hello Friggy,

Nice work! I have been using the neil med and i am currently battling a sinus infection which recently caused me great discomfort in my right maxillary sinus last night. I took a Mucinex seeking some sort of immediate relief, and it seemed to help more than the irrigation. In your tilting process does this reach the maxillary sinus? Sorry, i sort of skimmed through some of the medical background on your journal and hope that answer wasn't right there staring me in the face. If your interested in more background info on my infection it is all here:

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Ear--Nose--Throat/Maxillary-sinus-infection/show/936783

Something i didn't see mentioned anywhere here is Honey! Allegedly there are some forms of bacteria that are resistant to all of our known antibiotics yet still respond to raw honey. I knew it was nutritional for me when i first ate a spoon of honeycomb with clogged sinus', and thought "wow!" when they seemingly magically opened up within 30-40 seconds. The second time i told myself, ok, must be something to this, and did a little research. Apparently good raw honey is also antiviral and anti fungal. I however suspect it stimulates the cilia instantaneously considering the time frame in which it usually opens my blocked sinus'/nasal passages. Or is it some other catalyst with the turbinoids? Thanks again and good work!

by Cjako, Apr 29, 2009 04:56PM
Ok friggy,

So i tried your method yesterday. First i did my regular sinus rinse and felt surprisingly well. I actually heard some air going through my Eustachian tube and my ears felt more clear than they have in a over a week. I thought, hey, i probably still have some gunk in my maxillary sinus so i might as well try friggy's method. Not sure where i went wrong, but my head instantly felt "cloudy" again, and i could hear something fluid like going on with my ears. Didn't really feel considerably better or worse other than that.

I went to my dentist today and he confirmed my suspicions that it wasn't dental related, and wrote me an rx for some amoxicillin. He also recommended i pick up some nasal-krom to open things up. I went to the pharmacy and got both of these but haven't started either yet. I still really dont want to take anti-biotics unless i have to, but i am worried about causing further damage to my sinus which may make me more susceptible to infections in the future. I haven't taken antibiotics for over 18 months, last time was for a root canal infection. He also only prescribed me 7 days worth, what do you think? Should i wait it out some more?

by friggy, May 01, 2009 06:27PM
Cjako

Can't go wrong taking antibiotics with an infection.  In your case you can stick with the Neilmed because it is effective in the maxillary sinuses.  What happened with flip-turn is not unusual the first few times you do it because saline gets everywhere in your sinuses.  

When you feel the fluid in your ears, lie on a bed with the ear up and blow up a balloon.  It puts just enough pressure in the Eustachian, without blowing a gasket

by steve2stoke, May 04, 2009 01:47PM
hello,
fellow sinus sufferer here..been on more antibiotics than a candy shop has candy, only sure fire way iv had luck with is to get a glass of warm water..pour in as much salt as u could take b4 u cry wiv the burning sensation..and sniff the solution up 1 nostril at a time and as far up the passages as possible ...then soon after all the joyfull stuff comes out like the jelly & pus and if your sphenoids are playing up u'll get it come down the back into your mouth...then follow up with some good old steam for 10mins or so...repeat this several times a day until u start forgetting to do it as this means its healing up! but repeat for a further week just to be safe :)



by tobo, May 06, 2009 03:50PM
Hi, I've found that laying on the bed (on my back) with my head hanging down over the edge works better for me at getting the saline solution up into my sinuses.
      I put the solution in a sports cap bottle, insert it in my nostril, then tip my head back with the bottle in my nose, closing the other nostril with a finger, and stay like that for up to about a minute. Then do the other side.  I go a bit dizzy when I get up, but you have to get up quickly or else the water goes everywhere!  Have something at hand to hold your head over to let the fluid drain into, some tissues to blow your nose and a towel to mop up any liquid that runs over your eyes.
     I've done this for a few days twice a day, I can't say that it gets more gunk out, but does feel more comfortable, to me anyway, than bending over.
     Not sure what came out tonight, no obvious chunks of gunk but the solution came out orangy-pink, so maybe blood...?
     I'm finding that I notice the 'smell' more when I sneeze down my nose or when I blow it...any theories greatly received.
     I'm having allergy tests on Monday, hopefully this will give me some answers.  I've also done some reading on the 'net' about 'silver colloid' which sounds great...has anyone tried it?  It seems to only be available on-line though.  :0)



  






by adamjc, Jun 02, 2009 09:27AM
Tobo, could your 'smelly nose' problem possibly be phantosmia?  I have been suffering from that for about 10 years and just found this paper about it.  http://chemse.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/27/7/611

by friggy, Jun 09, 2009 12:32PM
adamjc

Thanks for that information.  Dr. Donald Leopold is one of the pre-eminent ENT's on the planet, so whatever he says goes.  Phantosmia is an accurate diagnosis in many cases. It also a term used for "I don't know what the problem is, and I don't know how to cure it."  One of the posters on this forum relayed the information from his doctor about the anaerobic bacteria, because that doctor was also a researcher with the right tests, so we may know more about this subject than many other excellent doctors.  Usually an anaerobic infection has some other telltale symptoms, so I would never settle for the diagnosis of phantosmia until I'd tried everything else.

gracias,
friggy

by tobo, Jun 12, 2009 03:16PM
Hi adamjc and friggy,
Thanks for your replies; I had my allergy tests and as I already knew, I have allergies to pollen/trees etc, I know this isn't causing my 'smelly nose' as I've had the allergy for years.  My consultant confirmed allergic rhinitis at my last visit, I have been today for a follow up - from this I have now been put on antibiotics (for 8 weeks) for chronic sinusitis, to see if this clears thing up as it has in the past, and a stronger steroid nasal drop, I also had blood tests to determine if there is an underlying immunity problem.  I go back after the course of antibiotics, and am to continue with the nasal flushing which has worked wonders for me!! For the firsty time in years, since starting the nasal flushing, I have stopped taking my antihistamines!!  I have to avoid certain fruit/nuts as this sets of my allergy, but otherwise I've been great.  I'm down to flushing 2/4 times per day instead of about 10/14 when I first started, so if you haven't yet tried it - give it a go!!!!!!!!  I definitley do have a real problem because my daughter is my official 'nose-smeller' and she has confirmed for me when I know it's bad...

Thanks and best wishes
Tobo  :0)

by friggy, Jun 16, 2009 03:25PM
Tobo

Congratulations.  Your determination is admirable. Your sinuses may take several weeks or even months to get to normal, even after you end treatment, so be even more patient.  You may also want to go down from a hypertonic saline to an isotonic saline, which is about 8 tsp. salt per gallon of distilled water, and stick to 2 or 3 per day.

One last recommendation is to try nettle leaf capsules, 2 of them about 3 times a day.  This has ended all of my allergies, but it only seems to work in about half the people who take it.  Zero side effects.  There is some scientific evidence is that magnesium, like that found in the nettle leaf, reduces allergic reactions.

by Luciiz, Jun 16, 2009 05:13PM
Hi Friggy, you replied today so hopefully you can reply to this soon.

Last summer, I was a very stupid boy and smoked what I very highly suspect was moldy cannabis. There were black spots on it, but I did it anyway. At the beginning, I had a big swollen lymph node on my left side, but this has now disappeared. Very soon after smoking it, I now have one side of my nose blocked (the nostrils switch every so often as to which is blocked), EXTREMELY thick sticky, clear mucous dripping down my throat. Also my eyes have been going red at random times and I've had mutant thick white/yellow bogeys - real weird ones. In the last few months I've discovered that putting my finger up my nose and sneezing it all out has been the only way to feel any relief - it's the pressure on the eyes that I can feel the most relief. Also, when I force myself to sneeze it out (it's literally gallons of this sticky mucous, not a pleasant sight), there have been times where my ears have unclicked and my right eye has started to tear. I felt MUCH better for about 12 hours afterwards.

I've been to the doctor for nasal sprays, antibiotics which have done nothing. I went to an ENT who said there was nothing up there that he could see on an endoscope. I recently had a CT scan done and there was nothing characteristic apart from a "slight mucous thickening on the left side" and a deviated septum to the right.

This is my only alternative - the doctors aren't really being of much help at all and it feels that they don't care about what happens to me. I've had this for exactly a year now and it's really depressing.

A few questions - how much table salt to water ratio? And also, should the water be warm or hot? Can I just get distilled water if I boil a kettle?

Thanks

by Luciiz, Jun 16, 2009 05:15PM
Also, the doctor is suggesting this "new nasal spray on the market" - should I use that in conjunction with this? Should I use it after or before the shower?

by friggy, Jun 17, 2009 02:57PM
Luciiz

I can't say that the two incidents are related, but I certainly can't say they aren't, and neither can any medical professional, because outside of a few researchers and doctors, nobody really knows that much about fungus infections of the sinuses, it's a medical frontier, so don't get miffed at your ENTs.  Plus, it doesn't always show up on scans.

What I do know is that if you put about 12 teaspoons of non-iodized table salt into a gallon of sterile water (hypertonic saline) and do the Sinus Flush to get it into your upper sinuses, it will totally mess with anything that's not supposed to be there, and wash it out. It will also mess a little bit with the stuff that's supposed to be there, but nothing permanently.  Your body is made of salt water.

You can use tapwater, but boil it for 4 minutes past the boiling point, to kill all microbes, and of course cool it down.  I use it room temperature, but you can warm it up to 100 degrees fahrenheit by putting it in a cup of warm water.  It makes no difference, just more soothing.

As for the "new nasal spray", well, I'm not in the business of contradicting doctor's advice.  In fact, I'd like to know what it is, so please post the name of it, if you may, when you find it out.  The only medicine I'd never put up my nose is Zicam (see new FDA warning) or Afrin for more than 3 days.  

If you do use the new spray, do it after flushing, otherwise you'll just wash it out.

Once your nose starts functioning better, cut the salt to 8 teaspoons per gallon, (1 teaspoon per pint), which is isotonic, and less harsh, but will still wash out microbes.  Good luck.

by tobo, Jun 18, 2009 02:34PM
Hi Friggy,
Many thanks for your reply and advice...I will try the isotonic solution, thank you.
I tried to get some nettle leaf capsules from a health food store, but couldn't get any that are suitable for vegetarians (I'll try further afield!!), but I did get some nettle leaf tea, which the lady in the shop assured me would serve the same purpose, what do you think?
  Do you think it's wise to take the steroid nasal drops (Flixonase/Fluticasone propionate) for 6 weeks? It says on the leaflet enclosed that its to reduce 'swelling and irritation' - I haven't got any 'irritation' and don't feel blocked either.
  I'm down to 2 rinses per day - it's great, I'm hardly getting any 'smell' at the moment!!!  I'm so pleased I discovered you!!! Thanks so much!!  
Good luck to all the fellow sufferers and keep pestering your Doctor or Consultant!!
Tobo

by Ann1959, Jun 19, 2009 11:08AM
This was a very interesting article and I tried your new nasal irrigation method this a.m.  I woke up feeling fatigued and had some post nasal drip.  What I coughed up was greenish, then turned to whitish discharge.  I have suffered from sinus problems since I was about 30 years old.  I am now fifty and had the worst time last year when I was getting a sinus infection every month to two months.  I finally went to see an ENT and he said I had a deviated septum.  I had the surgery to correct the deviated septum w/turbinate reduction in the middle of March.  I have been sick twice since then.  My doctor says the surgery was a success, because everything is draining well but I don't think so because the whole purpose for me was that I could go back to only getting one or two sinus infections a year instead of this chronic problem. I have been very diligent about irrigating my sinuses twice a day w/saline water and a large bulb syringe.  So far, this has not taken care of the problem.  I'm hoping the flip-turn method with get more saline where it needs to go.  Like many other, I too am very, very tired of the antibiotics, steroids, etc. that don't do much to solve the long term issue.  

I had one doctor (before I went to the ENT) that suggested probiotics for my immune system.  What do you think of these?  I would have taken this more seriously, except I don't get any other type of illness but sinus infections.  I am around sick kids all day at work and don't catch what they have.  I feel like if my immune system was the issue, I would get every thing I come in contact with, which is not the case.  Anyway, let me know what you think and thanks for all the information!

Ann



by friggy, Jun 19, 2009 11:26AM
tobo

I theorize that the main beneficial element in nettle leaf is the magnesium, which I suppose you will still get with nettle leaf tea.
As far as the steroids go, they reduce irritation and mucus production, whereas saline shrinks inflamed tissue, soothes the tissues, and washes out the infected mucus, which is the main problem with sinus infections. Same goal. There's no reason not to take it, if your doctor recommends it.  I am not in the business of contradicting doctor's orders (well, other than cheating them out of $10,000 endoscopic surgery to remove sinus infections).  The only medicines I'm opposed to using are Zicam, ever, or Afrin more than 3 days.

by friggy, Jun 19, 2009 11:43AM
Ann1959

Congratulations on your successful surgery.  It is often necessary to correct physical abberations.  That doesn't always lead to sinus health, but it's the first step, which is adequate drainage.

Don't feel bad that it didn't cure the problem.  There are many ENT's, excellent ones, who are suffering from chronic sinusitis.
I believe that sinusitis, like ulcers, requires a different, unexpected approach.

I went through the other problems as you, as far as years of chronic sinus infection with standard treatment, to only temporary avail, which led to the invention of the Sinus Flush.  Squirting saline up your nose with a bulb only works for the lower sinuses, the maxillary and ethmoid, before gravity takes effect.  Your infection is most likely lodged in the upper sinuses, the frontal or the sphenoids, or both, and the only way to get saline in and out of these is to bend over, which uses gravity, instead of struggling against it.

by friggy, Jun 22, 2009 10:29AM
Ann1959

As far as probiotics, I thought they were a good way to sell yogurt and pills, so I don't really believe in them, but I started eating 24 oz. Vanilla Activia because I love the unsweet taste, and have been feeling a lot lot better lately.  The two events may or may not be related.

Dr. Diana Schwarzbein and Dr. Mark Levy, seperately, have books that theorize that a lot of our health problems are caused by endocrine systems messed up by bad eating. We are, in fact, in the midst of a national insulin crisis. I'm a skeptic, but there's a lot of emerging evidence that bellyfat and unhealthy intestines take on a life of their own.  Plus, we do know that bad dental hygiene can screw up your circulatory system. Time and research will tell.

by nstand, Jun 22, 2009 12:27PM
Regarding Hydrogen Peroxide, I had nasal surgery (laser) just over a year ago , turbinate reduction and septum correction.After wards the surgeon gave a nasal irrigation formula to be used with the grossan nasal device, The ratio of water (distilled ) was more than I could stand  ( burning), maybe because I was too sensitive after the surgery. I then used the neil med solution ( for the buffering properties of the bi carb). If you can stand the burning of the Peroxide it moves the gunk out like nothing else. Something strange last week happened, after my regular shower  I bent forward and administered an off the shelf nasal solution , kept my head bent over for 10 seconds or so ,and then started to blow the gunk out (still bent over) the ugly green nasty stuff came out. Later on that day I started to get a sensation of the taste and smell of the grapefruit seed extract ( recommended by the Mayo Clinic) that I had used over 2 years ago.I looked at the active ingredients and saw no mention of grapefruit seed extract. So this had me thinking that something is still stuck up there and how to get it out. I searched on the web for a sinus vacuum , this link came up.My question is there a commercially available device to suck the gunk out  ? . I do not intend to use an industrial grade device such as a shop vac.Also if you double the dose of the neil med does it not make it  hyper tonic also.

by nstand, Jun 22, 2009 01:21PM
Sorry did not mention the ratio of peroxide to water. I tried the doctors recommendation,it was way to strong , I was fortunate to have a Neil med bottle filled with the Neil med solution, I quickly flushed my nose and the burning sensation stopped. I then started to experiment , approx 1 teaspoon of peroxide in an 8 oz Neil med bottle , and went up from there,also what I did was to lay flat on the bathroom floor with my head on a towel , pour the solution in ( keep your eyes closed) and hold it as long as I could, and then blow the gunk out, the first time I did it a "Mother Lode" came out. When I feel there is a lot of gunk up there I revert back to the Peroxide ( for me it just burns so much).

by friggy, Jun 22, 2009 03:34PM
nstand

It's kind of a mystery how the grapeseed extract could show up 2 years later.  My best guess is that it was in your upper sinuses (the frontals and sphenoids) and that your ostia got sealed up by the sinus infection. It seems like your membranes  would absorb it, but there isn't much blood circulation up there, which is why antibiotics often don't work there.  I don't know much about that kind of surgery, but I'm also guessing it only affected your septum and lower nasal passages and sinuses.

As you have figured out, the Neilmed only reaches the lower sinuses if you follow the instructions.  Looks like you found a better way.  The point of the Flip-Turn Sinus Flush is the same--to defeat gravity, get hypertonic saline into the upper sinuses, and wash out the infected gunk.  The hypertonic saline also shrinks the mucus membranes, and if you tenaciously flush, it will open up the passageway to the upper sinuses and the Mother Lode comes out.  Unfortunately, in some cases the upper passageways, or ostia, get scarred shut, which is why surgery is sometimes indicated (preferably, balloon sinuplasty).

Yes, if you double the Neilmed formula, it goes from isotonic to hypertonic.  I kind of compromise with my formula and go about halfway between the two, because it works, and doesn't shock so much.

Thanks for the feedback, and your new way to Sinus Flush.  That may come in handy for people who can't bend over in a shower for health reasons.  And thanks for the doctor's tip on peroxide. I'd probably try that as the very last resort.  Is it the regular 3% peroxide you find in most drugstores?

by nstand, Jun 22, 2009 06:04PM
Yep just regular peroxide, the other thing that I do , is to blow my nose bent over , but without closing one nostril, basically the same as you would without a handkerchief , it also seems to get the gunk , it also works in a regular stand up position.Anyone that goes surfing has experienced bending over after wards, and a stream of water coming out,which just goes to show you have to hit these sinuses from all angles to get the water in and to blow it out. Any word links or anything on a sinus vacuum , because it is obvious you can get stuff into your sinuses ,but not so easy to get it out. I am going to try and replicate the other day where I got the taste of the grapefruit seed extract,seemed bizarre. It was the Mayo clinic that recommended using it with nasal irrigation, and  thought maybe someone had incorporated it into a nasal spray. Maybe we can open a sinus clinic, a person comes in , you locally sedate the nose , you irrigate with the saline and peroxide and then vacuum all the gunk out , which probably has to repeated until you get the infection out. Sounds crazy, but thus far modern day technology has not done much either.

by Ann1959, Jun 24, 2009 11:10AM
Thought I would give you an update after going to my ENT Monday afternoon.  I was so depressed about being sick again that I was crying in my doctor's office.  He looked at the inside of my nose and said that everything looked good following the surgery and it appears to be draining properly, so he is really perplexed.  This sinus infection has been so bad.  I cough up alot of green mucous in the am and also irrigate it out of my nose several times a day.  It's been 3 months since the surgery so I'm really past the recovery phase.  I used the flip-turn irrigation method a few times but then felt fluid in my R. ear and stopped because I was afraid I was making things worse.  Anyway, my doctor briefly mentioned that occasionally he will run accross a patient whose cilia are impaired and not properly evacuating the dust, pollen, etc from the nose and he said for those people sinus surgery doesn't really help.  He put me on Augmentin for three weeks to see if I will actually get well this time and said we will go from there.  Do you know how you treat a patient if their cilia are not working?  I bought a bunch of vitamins, etc to try to improve my immune system and am thinking of ordering one of the Grossan nasal irrigators because it specifically mentions improving the movement of the cilia.  If you have any advice, anyone, please post because I'm really feeling frustrated. During the past 10 months, I've had 7-8 sinus infections.  I cough so much duing every one and it takes weeks to feel like myself again.  Then it seems I'm starting all over again w/a new one. I feel like I'm never well any more... and it's really taking it's toll.  

by nstand, Jun 24, 2009 10:12PM
Ok, when you get the Grossan Nasal irrigation device  , search on the Mayo clinic and see what they say, and what they recommend to do with it in tandem. Also search on this ( I do not want to give the exact link) ,this has worked the best for me ."joe johnson's famous sinusitis miracle treatment" . A work colleague had surgery (not much relief), got the Grossan device ( big improvement) but still was missing days of work because of his sinus problems, he has not missed a day since he got JJ's solution  (inexpensive  compared to the relief you get.).Buy the premixed nasal soutions for use with the grossan device.

by friggy, Jun 25, 2009 12:30PM
Ann1959

If you are getting fluid in your ear, then go with the Grossan, and check out what nstand has mentioned above.  The Flip-Turn is really just to remove infected snot, pus, and mucus from the sinuses, which usually cures sinusitis.  Any kind of irrigation should at least help the cilia.

What you may have (I can't say for sure, just a guess) is a subtle infection in your upper sinuses, the frontal or sphenoid) which may be producing just enough toxins to mess with your cilia as they drain out, but not enough to produce a detectable infection, except on occasions. If thats the case, then maybe the Grossan will get up there, I don't know.  Good luck.

by friggy, Jun 25, 2009 12:39PM
nstand

Looks like we both came up with the same concept, you through surfing, me through swimming.  I think hypertonic saline is just ocean water strength, while isotonic is the same as body fluids.  If the oceans were cleaner, then surfing would be the cure for sinusitis.

One of the steps of the procedure above is to gently blow your nose with your face down.  Sometimes, after I'd flush, I'd bend over or look down during the day and some saline would come out, which is why I advocate carrying a tissue at all times when doing it.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I am reluctant to use peroxide only because I don't know whether or not it messes with the cilia in your nose, which are important in drainage.  

by Pegfor, Jul 05, 2009 08:46PM
For someone suffering from Parosmia/Phantosmia, and not just a Sinus Infection, the Head-Down-Forward" (HDF) position is more effective than the described "Sinus Flush" method. In the HDF method, we bend forward in a way that is comfortable but we always point the top of our head at the floor. We use an applicator/product like Simply Saline that has a nozzle that is at least an inch-long and sprays with mild pressure. We force the saline to the top of our nasal cleft and pause for a couple minutes. We then stand up and blow our nose without undue force.  Just thought it may be helpful for anyone reading this that has Parosmia or Phantosmia.  This HDF method was written by a member of my Yahoo Support Group for Parosmia/Phantosmia sufferers.

by badsmell, Jul 07, 2009 09:16PM
Dear Friggy:  
I have tried your method after going in the shower, but I have found no success.  I use hypertonic solution (two isotonic Neilmed packets), do this routine for three or four times a day, but I still get a very bad nasal smell.  This is suprising especially because it is in the summer, when the mucus is looser...what can I do to make this more effective?  

by friggy, Jul 09, 2009 09:40AM
badsmell

There are many other causes of phantosmia, many of which have unknown causes and treatments.  If you are not getting results after 10 days of flushing, then you should consult an ENT.  There are also other things, such as infected cysts, or some other blockage, that could be keeping the saline from reaching the infection site, if that is what you have.  It would be beneficial to you to have an ENT check it out.

by friggy, Jul 09, 2009 11:50AM
to: badsmell

One of the other causes of the smell is called atrophic rhinitis.

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Respiratory-Disorders/bad-smell-from-nose---help-me-please/show/284982

by tobo, Jul 10, 2009 04:14PM
to: friggy
an update -
Antibiotics started working after a week - I've continued with saline flush, and for 2 weeks I had no yellow mucus bits and no bleeding, but its all started again this last week, still clear mucus but with clumps of yellow sticky mucus in it and bleeding from left nostril again...!! I've got another 4 wks on antibiotics, but it looks like, for some reason, that they might have stopped working or if there is an infection up there its fighting back!! I've also gone back to a hyper solution.  Is this usual?
Tobo :(

by badsmell, Jul 11, 2009 03:37PM
Re:  Friggy

I highly doubt it's atrophic rhinitis because my nasal pasages are usually moist. I don't think it's tonsilitis because I don't have a sore/swollen throat, I don't taste anything wierd in my mouth, but I am having a bad smell in my nose.  99% sure I'm not imagining the bad smell.  
Also, somehow at home or when I'm very calm or I forget about the smell, it goes away

by friggy, Jul 12, 2009 04:30PM
tobo

I'd suggest staying on the antibiotics and keep on flushing hyper.  Microbes are tenacious, and I've read that germs can evolve to be drug-resistant during the course of a hospital stay of a few weeks, so you have to be more tenacious than them.  Keep in touch with your doctor, too.

by friggy, Jul 13, 2009 12:08AM
badsmell

Good observations.  One possibility that might help is the comments from nstand above, about how he has to do face-down flushes instead of top-of-head facing down.  I'm not that intricately familiar with the precise structure of all the sinuses, but I remember that hours after a flush, I would bend over to read someting on a desk, face down, and saline would come out.  Perhaps there are some small sinus spaces leading toward the back of the head, which wouldn't get saline in a FlipTurn.  

I went outside to try a different method (you can do it inside, on towels)  I sat down on the ground, legs bent, knees up.  I bent my head back, poured saline into my nostrils, pinched them, and did a reverse sit-up until my back was flat on the ground, and tilted my head back a little further.  Then I sat up, and the saline poured from my nostrils (if you try it, you may want a bowl in between your legs to drain).

No water got into my ears, which is always a concern, and although I have no more infections, a lot of clear phlegm got flushed out this way.  It seems like an effective alternative to the regular Flip-Turn Flush, and might possibly reach a few missed head cavities.  

by Luciiz, Jul 15, 2009 08:58AM
Hi friggy,

Theoretically, wouldn't it be better to try and fight the infection all at once with the salt solution i.e. bombard it with a lot of salt water compared to just doing it in small increments twice a day? If the resistant fungi/bacteria stays alive and multiplies, wouldn't it have theoretically evolved and therefore would be resistant to the flush? Just a thought.

by friggy, Jul 16, 2009 10:47AM
Luciiz

Theoretically, yes, it might be best, in many situations, to use full hypertonic, which would be 16 teaspoons of salt per gallon, and just flush like a maniac, and I have knocked out acute bouts of sinusitis that way, but if one bends over a whole lot of times in a row, well, even I have a tendency to start getting a little dizzy. Getting dizzy and possibly falling is the main risk involved in this procedure, and risk is something I wish to minimalize in this journal.

Also, with a lot of infections, the mucus membranes swell up, and block sinus passages, and it takes a few days of saline irrigation to shrink the tissues

by Skunky007, Jul 16, 2009 05:05PM
friggy

Ive been having post nasal drip and smelly nose since elementary school as far as i remember. Ive been using your flip turn technique 4 times and I have to say that...It was wonderful to feel a clear breeze in my nose today when i went out...Cant even remeber when i have had it last time..maybe never? Im excited and hope this will end my 30year career of skunk that people stare at public transport etc..I had lost my hope allready and now it looks llike there is light in the end of the tunnel again. Is there any connection between sinutitis problem and problem that I have in my throat I always need to hawk before my voice comes out..Thanks for sharing this!!

by friggy, Jul 17, 2009 11:02AM
Skunky007

I got my sinus problem in elementary school, but I was a teacher and the kids kept getting me sick.  They always made fun of my hawking.  It's from the toxins from the sinus problems inflaming the throat.  Gargle with the salt water to help get rid of the phlegm.  Glad to have helped.  It will take several weeks for your sinuses to resume normal function, after you stop flushing.

by 20LongYears, Jul 21, 2009 04:38PM
Friggy,

Thank you so much for posting this sinus flush.  I've had this problem for 20 years.  For the first 10, the only symptom I had was smelly breath and I had no idea where it was coming from.  10 years in, the sinus infections started.  Funny thing was, the only symptom I had was fever (no feeling of congestion, no headaches, no pressure, nothing) but they'd do an x-ray and low and behold my sinuses were foggy.  The antibiotics never helped my breath.  I took them until they were gone, a month later I got another fever and went to the doctor, got more antibiotics, and circled like that for about a year.  After a year, the Dr. sent me to an allergist who sent me to an ENT who said i need sinus surgery for polypectomy, some adenoid tissue removal, deviated septum, and enlarging of the nasal bone around my nostrils.  Still, mind you, no symptoms beyond bad breath and fever.  The surgery was a resounding success, ENT said I healed perfectly, still I had the bad breath.  I'm 17 years into chronic bad breath and decide to get my tonsils removed.  No help.  Followed that up by spending $1000's at the dentist.  Still, bad breath.  The only thing that kept me hanging on was my own observation that when - every once in a blue moon - I got hayfever (I called it) and my nose would run profusely, the bad breath went away.  20 years into chronic bad breath, I saw a neilmed sinus wash video, I tried it, and OH MY GOSH!  I could smell things I never knew even had a smell!! It was wonderful and the bad breath was gone - for a week.  And then it came back, but with a definite location, the left side of my nose.  I had finally pinned down the cause for sure, it was my sinuses.  I went to the Dr 2 weeks ago, still no symptoms beyond bad breath, told him I have sinus problems.  He x-rayed, sure enough my entire left side is blocked.  He gave me antibiotics.  As long as I was on the antibiotics with the sinus rinses, no bad breath, but as soon as they ended and I was on rinse alone, the bad breath came back w/a vengence.  So I'm depressed, smelling so horrid I don't want anyone near me, looking around the internet this AM, come across your sinus flush.  Excellent suggestion, I thought.  Hope renewed, I called the Dr and asked him to call me in more antibiotics, I plan to do your flush along w/a course of antibiotics.  I went home at lunch, did a variation of the flush (filled my nose using mixture 1 & 1/2 packs of isotonic neilmed w//8oz water) clamped it, threw my head back, and held 30 seconds.  Lots and lots of mucus, no real color, maybe a small speck of yellow.  The smell is still there, but it has died down about 50% - and has stayed died down for 2 hours now!   (my rinse this morning cut the smell about 25% and lasted about 1/2 hour).  I can't wait to get home and take an antibiotic and do a real flush in the shower.

Sorry this is so long, but I have been plagued w/this bad breath for 2 decades.  If this works out for me, Friggy, you and others here w/their suggestions will be my heroes for life.  There are many people out there suffering from bad breath, like me, yet w/no sinus symptoms, like me.  I'm not saying sinuses are the culprit for everyone of them, but I'll bet it is for a lot of them and they don't know it.  Ever heard of anyone like me, a sinusitis sufferer by x-ray but w/no bothersome symptoms (beyond bad breath)?

I will let you know how it works out for me and I will try to keep it much shorter.  

by friggy, Jul 21, 2009 09:07PM
20LongYears

Thanks for the lengthy feedback.  Your observations jibe with a certain trend--that the anaerobic bacteria that I suspect are the most common cause of the nasty smell seem to thrive after an infection by aerobic bacteria (the kind that cause congestion and other sinusitis sypmtoms) has largely resided.  Keep on flushing, and continue to ask your doctor for antibiotics until the smell goes away.

by bewildered2, Jul 21, 2009 10:40PM
Friggy,

When Iv'e done the sinus flush either over the sink o in the shower , I get out tons and tons of both thick and sticky mucus and then it turns to thin and stringy and finally almost  whitish foam!  Is this anything like what you or others produce?  I cough and gag so very very hard I'd wear my brains are coming down with the mucus.  I'm afraid that I'm hurting myself.  I just finished my 3rd emptyin of my sinuses today and at the end my eyes are stinging and the mucus is very salty.  Does this sound right?  I'm worried I'm getting so much out yet it always returns and fills up again.  
Iv'e been suffering with this for 8-9 yrs now and have seen all the dr's and on all the protocols for treatment with no help. Negative for allergies also.

I'm wondering if my scenerio is similar to most or sounds too crazy??

by 20LongYears, Jul 23, 2009 09:40AM
Just thought I'd keep you all posted.  This is my 3rd day on the flip turn, at 3 per day, I've done 1 so far today.  First, before the flip turn, I'd stopped getting any mucus from the standard maxillary wash, apparently they were clear, I was shocked the amount of mucus I'm pulling from the flip turn.  It just keeps coming and coming.  As for the bad smell.  I'm on the antibiotics and have added sudafed to the mix. In the past 2 days the flip turn has kept the smell at bay for 2 hours max.  This morning I was almost in tears, so tired of waking up with that awful smell, so tired of waiting for this to work.  During my flip turn I recalled Friggy said it can take time to get the passages open, so it could be a gradual process.  But, I thought, as long as Im getting mucus, I'm going to keep going.  I did 9 or 10 flip turns, the mucus kept coming, I only stopped because I had to go to work.  I got a tiny red spot (maybe blood) and this small gob of brown stuff, looked like an noxious organism to me, and a change of smell in my nose from awful rancid metalic dung to, like a dairy type smell, not clean but not awful.

Okay, I'm at 1-1/2 hourse of no smell.  I'll post again in a few hours to let you know if the flip turns finally get me past 2 hours w/no smell.

(Bewildered, I as afraid I was hurting myself too with the hyper solution.  Stung my eyes and yesterday it burned my upper nose for hours.  But it goes away, it's only salt water.  It can't be worse than the infection. About the weird stuff coming out, I'm glad when something besides clear mucus comes out because its probably the problem)

by 20LongYears, Jul 23, 2009 01:05PM
Okay, at 4 hours the smell back is in my nose, but not dripping down into my throat.  5 Hours, smell in nose, still no postnasal drip, (amazing!) no bad taste or odor in mouth.  (usually the PND is so horribly thick, smelly, & nauseating that I have to rinse my throat with hydrogen peroxide, which only works about 1/2 to 1 hour).

It's lunch time and I am going home to do another flush.

by Luciiz, Jul 23, 2009 05:30PM
20LongYears, please keep this comment section updated! I have a thick, clear PND too (although no bad smell, my nose is blocked) and would like to see how yours is doing. Good progress so far. I'm going to try my flushes myself very soon.

by 20LongYears, Jul 23, 2009 11:26PM
Okay, still updating.  This is amazing.  I went home at lunch today, did the flush at about 1:30PM...at 10:45PM--STILL NO SMELL and no post nasal drip!  Not even a little bit, not at all for 9 hours!  It's like a miracle.  A friend of mine at work who loves to talk to me despite my problem, but will often put her finger under her nose, leaned over my desk today, right into my face, and we gossiped closely.  She never flinched, never moved to cover her nose.  I felt like a real human being for the first time in, well, 20 years.  At 11:00 PM (still no smell) my nose started to run, just a very little, something that never happens to me (I don't sneeze either).  I think my cilia are waking up.  I did another flip turn just because Friggy said to keep going a couple days after all seems well.  I got some mucus, mostly clear, some cloudy and some very small flecks of yellow, but less, if I was getting gallons before, now I'm down to less than 1/2 cup.  So far, excellent.  THANK YOU FRIGGY and everyone who posted!  

Of course, after 20 years I'm leary - elated! - afraid it won't last - so grateful for the reprieve!  I've got 5 days of antibiotics left and I'm going to do a couple doses of sudafed a day while I'm on them.  I'm going to keep doing the flip turn and I will keep you posted.  If this keeps up, my life is going to change big time.

by friggy, Jul 24, 2009 10:05AM
bewildered2

The experience you are having with the sinus flush is familiar to me.  Yes, it does feel brutal for the first several times that you do it, feels like permanent damage being done, but it's just temporary messed-up, and it takes awhile to get to normal.  The mucus seems kind of endless, but the human body is resilient.

by friggy, Jul 24, 2009 10:18AM
20LongYears

Thank you very much for the play-by-play, sounds like you are on schedule for recovery.  Your friend is amazing.  Don't be reluctant to ask your doctor for more antibiotics, as it takes longer for them to work in the sinuses due to poor blood circulation.  And after you are done, go to the drugstore and get some probiotics.  Continuing good luck to you.

by 20LongYears, Jul 24, 2009 12:29PM
Friggy,

Thank you for the flush, and for watching over and advising people who post here.  

The mucus amount is getting less everytime.  Very little PND over night w/smell, but flushed away easily and stayed gone.  I did 10 days of antibiotics in early July, took a 5 day break, and now I'm doing 7 days. I was pretty bad off when I started the 7 day antibiotics on 7/21.  Now I'm MUCH better, w/4 days to go on the antibiotics.  If I stay feeling this good, if it were you, would you do another 7 days antibiotics just to be on the safe side or go right to the probiotics?

Also, do you do a maintenance flip turn when you're feeling well?  If so, how often do you do it?  Do you do a maxillary maintenance wash, too, or do you feel the flip turn gets the maxillaries too?

by friggy, Jul 25, 2009 10:10AM
Only your doctor can prescribe antibiotics, and you can ask him or her for more., I mean, it has been 20 long years, what's another week of antibiotics, but if they don't agree, well, they're the doctor.  If you are having success with the flush, it should keep the microbes at bay, and your natural systems should take over.  The probiotics are just something you should take after taking antibiotics for any problem, as they mess up the flora in your digestive systems and cause other problems.

No, I never do flip-turns unless I have a problem, because, to be honest, they are brutal.  Like the original title of my journal suggests, my sinuses are clear, not forever, but for the last 4 years.

If you just want to clean your maxillaries, the Neilmed Sinus Rinse is the way to go.

by Ladypat, Jul 29, 2009 08:49PM
This has been so very interesting. I thought I was a little cooky until I read this page. Thanks, everybody! I plan to try this. One question is about the headache which is usually just on one side of my head about once a week. Has anyone experience this. I hawk and blow every morning and have suffered for years with sinus problems; tried countless prescript; many doctors visits and nothing really works. I am familiar with the achy face, itchy eyes, itchy throat, ears itching to the point where I can reach far enough to satisfy them; lots of post nasal drip;

I think I'm a candidate to try this rinse.

ladypat

by Luciiz, Aug 06, 2009 08:12AM
Hi Friggy,

I tried this 3 times yesterday and once today with a fair bit of success - I think it's a fungal infection that's been going on for year, and yesterday and today I've got some "schmoo" (yellow-brown stuff - fungal?) and a lot of clear mucous which I get with my post nasal drip that comes out of my nose and mouth when I do it. I've been using two helimed sachets per 280ml like it suggests in their manual to make it a hypertonic solution. Since this is obviously a stubourn infection in my upper sinuses, should I upgrade it to 3 sachets per 280ml to make it a super-hypertonic? Also, your instructions about standing up stiraght and letting it drip out no blowing one time, and half bending over and blowing out - does this make a difference? I've just been standing up and blowing it out of each nostril about 7 times until the helimed container is finished (7 times because thats about how much the bottle fills my sinuses up).

Thanks for everything friggy :)

by Luciiz, Aug 06, 2009 08:20AM
And also, no matter how hard I try not to, water always gets into my ears. No pain there yet though so probably not infected... any way to avoid this? I'm not twisting my head either way.

by friggy, Aug 06, 2009 09:05AM
Luciiz

If you are getting water into your ears, the Sinus Flush may be something that you may not want to risk.  It may be due to the fact that people have various physiologies, so I don't have any alternatives, except maybe the sit-up version discussed with "nstand" above in the comments.  If you still have water in your ears, lay on a bed with the ear up and blow up a balloon, which will open up your eustachian tubes without blowing a gasket.

As for the saline, it's not a good idea to go above the level of hypertonic, as that messes with your cilia and other tissues.  Not permanently, but way too much salt.

by Luciiz, Aug 10, 2009 04:02PM
Hi Friggy,

Have been doing it twice a day and have got a method going where I only put a small bit up the nostrils at a time (turns out i was probably forcing too much up there hence the watered-ears).

Every time I get copious amounts of thick, clear mucous. With every (average about 10-12 flips per flush, two sachets 240ml water - hypertonic) flip, theres always mucous. I could keep on going past the 240ml and there'd still be mucous coming out (albeit there is more mucous coming out of the first flip compared to the last). Should I still keep going with the flushes? I've done about 8 in total now - will this mucous ever permanently go do you think? Is that possible? Do you have any scientific theory you could share about clear, thick mucous and this salt flushing?

I'll keep on going twice a day and report back soon. Cheers again.

by Luciiz, Aug 10, 2009 04:22PM
Additional note: I always get this thick clear mucous in the post nasal drip I have, but ever since doing the flushes I've noticed more mucous is actually dripping down than usual - good sign?

by friggy, Aug 11, 2009 10:17AM
It's a tough call with clear mucus.  If I recall your original post, you think it may be a fungal infection, and if I recall my fungal infeciton, the mucus was clear, so it's hard to tell when the infection is cleared up.  Plus, a sinus flush is so brutal that even if I do it now with my perfectly clear sinuses i'll still get a lot of clear mucus coming out.  Even if you've successfully removed the fungal infection, it takes several days for your sinuses to get to normal.

by miserable1here, Aug 11, 2009 06:21PM
So, I finally tried the sinus-flush and been doing it for about two weeks now, the first time I did it, it was amazing how it cleared my nose and I was able to smell better. It also made my head lighter. The bad smell in my nose and mouth seemed to disappear for a few hours, but then it returned. The sinus-flush seemed to work for the first week, everytime I did it, but it's not working as well this week. The smell and taste in my mouth is still present the last few days after doing the sinus-flush routine. However, each time I do the sinus-flush, I get lots of clear, slimy snot out. I've been doing it twice daily. How is everyone doing with the sinus-flush method? Also, how long does it normally take to see results? A few weeks, months, years? and 20LongYears if you're still around, if you would keep us updated on how the sinus-flush is going for you. Are your problems completely gone now? Thanks.

by bewildered2, Aug 13, 2009 12:09AM
Iv'e been doing the sinus flush for several weeks and still get copius amounts of clear white and both thick and thin mucus.  I never seem to be able to be completely emptied there is always more but I have to stop at some point for sanity sake.  I also have found when I brush my teeth with my sonic brush the vibration brings out tons more mucus.  It's like an unending flood on and on.  I also need at some point to use a q-tip (i know its a no no) to poke through to unplug and release the snot.  I'm wondering if anyone else has this same situation with the teeth brushing and use of q tips?

by friggy, Aug 14, 2009 08:26PM
Luciiz

A saline flush will get the mucus running more for a while.  It takes several days or even a week or two for the sinuses to return to normal function

miserable1here and bewildered2

Try doing the situp method I recommended to "nstand" on an earlier comment.  If your problem is indeed caused by bacteria or fungus, there may be a pocket towards the back of your head that a regular sinus flush isn't reaching.



by JeninMaine, Sep 15, 2009 02:54PM
Friggy,

This is my first post, but I had to post and say THANK YOU THANK YOU for sharing this method.  I was only recently "diagnosed" with Post Nasal Drip and was sent from the doctors to start using Nasonex and Zrytec both which provided little relief from this onslaught of mucus that seem to be building up in my nasal cavities.  

After searching the internet,  I learned about the neti pot and quickly ran out and bought one.  The Neti Pot combined with Mucinex quickly relieved my mucus in my maxillary sinus and in my chest allowing me to breathe and sleep thru the night without coughing. Also, after playing around with allergy medication, I got myself on a system of taking Claritin D and the 24 hour non prescription Zrytec.  However, I could still feel mucus deep behind my nose and behind my eyes,  The saline rinses just couldn't get to these areas and the mucinex didn't help either.

After seeing a UTube video about a method to remove congestion or water in your ears I tried filling my nasal cavities with saline rinse and rotating my head in different positions.  While I could get more of the mucus junk out I still felt the congestion in those hard to reach sinus areas.

Thankfully, I found your flip-turn sinus flush last week.  After the first use, I couldn't believe it, but more gunky, junk came out. I added to my daily pill intake a regime of nettles as well as Vitamin D and eliminated dairy from my diet. In three days of your method.  I felt about 85% of my normal self but still felt some of that deep phelgm.  I kept going with your method thinking that I must be chipping away at that mucos build up. And on days 4 and 5 I felt about 90-95% of my normal self and was thinking I would be satisfied if this is the best I was going to be. Today is day 6, and I honestly feel about 99% of my normal self.  Wow!  I can't wait to see what the next few days bring me.

So Thank you Thank you Thank you for sharing this method!  

Jen from Maine




by ricko82, Sep 16, 2009 03:02PM
Hi Friggy,
I hope you can provide some insight... I'm doing your flush religiously now after a long bout from last winter... it's chronic.  Should I do the flush on a regular basis?  It seems to stave off any major illness like the one that sent me to the ENT last winter... my CTscan showed lonly inflamed deep sinus cavities.  But nonetheless, it has never completely disappeared.  I'm wondering whether continuous application of the saline will need a year to "beat down" the chronic infection.
all the best,
Ricko, Nashville

by bmcc49er, Sep 21, 2009 01:13PM
I have been dealing with severe congestion for over 20 years. Allergy shots, every medicine I can think of, no avail. My delibilitating problem is my ears. When my sinuses are clear I feel great but that is rare. My ears hurt bad all the time and the only relief is to lay down on either side. They pop, they feel like fluid is trying to break through but i did have tubes put in my ears to no avail as well. I can tilt my head any time of day and it feels like fluid is trying to break through. The noises I hear while laying my head down are unreal, with the hard popping and rushing sounds. I just deal with it but it would be life changing to fix this problem.

by friggy, Sep 24, 2009 12:39PM
To Jen from Maine:

I am happy to hear that you are getting excellent results.  The flush doesn't always work, but many times it works great, and you are one of the the lucky ones.

To ricko82:

It shouldn't take more than 3 weeks to defeat a chronic infection.  There may be something else going on up there, check with a different ENT for a different take.

To bmcc49er:

I wish I knew a way to get saline into the Eustachian tubes and ears, and safely out.  That would solve a lot of ear problems, but the Sinus Flush won't help with that.  I got ETD (Eustachian Tube Dysfunction) last year, the one time I got a cold and didn't use the flush, and it still pops in and out once in a while.  Keep going to different ear doctors, maybe one has an answer.

by ihatesinusproblems, Oct 02, 2009 07:40AM
I tried the sinus flush once yesterday, but it made the smell worse.  Should I keep doing it?  Will this chase the bad smell away over time?  Or did it just make it worse?  I do not have access to pickling salt or distilled water right now.  I boiled the tap water and used table salt (bad, I know...but I had to work with what I had)

by friggy, Oct 02, 2009 09:41AM
ihatesinusproblems

When people take antibiotics, they sometimes feel worse, temporarily, because of the toxins from disrupted bacteria.  The same thing, in my experience, can happen with a flush.   Distilled water is not essential, I just find it easier than boiling and cooling a gallon of water, and the tapwater in my city is rather nasty.  I use tablesalt, which isn't bad, actually.  Some people get irritated by the iodine, so buy non-iodized if that's a problem.

by ihatesinusproblems, Oct 02, 2009 11:48AM
One other thing- does this method also cleanse the maxillary sinuses, or do I have to use the neti pot for that?
Thanks

by ihatesinusproblems, Oct 02, 2009 04:06PM
Oh, I didn't realize you had posted a reply already.  Thank you.  Well, I'm going to sinus flush for the rest of the day.  I'll do as many as I can.  I'm so tired of this problem.  I've had a problem with the bad breath, but the bad smell from the nose only started after I began using the neti pot.  It cleared my congestion (but I found out wayyyy after the fact that it made me exhale a bad smell).  Gosh, if it's not one thing, it's another (in this case, something that's even worse).  I'll let you know how things go.  I sincerely hope this works b/c goodness knows I"m tired of it.

by badbreathmiracle, Oct 03, 2009 02:51PM
Thank you so much for this article!!!  I have suffered from chronic bad breath over the past few years, which appears to be progressively getting worse.  I've had dental issues, that resulted in a number of root canals and crowns, and currently have consistent pain under a tooth that had a root canal.  However, my dentist recently assured me that I have no infections nor any other dental cause for the bad breath.  And I believe him because the bad smell and taste in my mouth appears to be coming from the back of my throat and/or nose.  And it's there immediately after I brush my teeth.  The dentist suggested seeing an ENT, but I would prefer a natural solution before taking that step - hence my stumbling upon your article.

Having read your article and the comments, it appears that I have chronic sinusitis.  I believe that I have post nasal drip, as for years I have had inexplicable coughing fits after I first lie down to sleep and on occassion in the middle of the night.  I usually have to blow my nose when I first get up in the morning.  I do also recall sporadic days over the years when I would have a running nose, which I attributed to self-diagnosed allergies.  Reading through your article and looking at a picture of sinuses, (btw, here's a link you might want to include in your article, http://www.emedicinehealth.com/sinus_infection/article_em.htm), I realize now that I have localized pain in what would be the maxillary and ethmoidal sinuses almost every single day, but it hasn't been enough that I would seek help for it.  Sometime last year I had a couple of sores/scabs in my nose, which were pretty nasty and painful.

I am going to try your flush and I am praying that it works, because the bad breath is extremely embarrasing.  My question to you is that since I don't have the congestion, pain, headaches e.t.c. described by others above, how would I know when my sinuses have cleared?  Would it be based on a lack of or minimal mucus after a flush?  Also, once the bad breath goes away, do I continue the flushes on a regular basis or just do them periodically for prevention?  If periodically, how often?

In doing follow-up searches, I have just discovered that I have Tonsilloliths - tonsil stones (well I always knew I had them, just didn't have a name for it), which could also be the source of my bad breath.  Do you know if the two are somehow related?

Thank you so much!!!

by ihatesinusproblems, Oct 04, 2009 11:34AM
OK Friggy, I had to give you the update and post this so that it can help others.  I had done the flip turn since Wednesday morning.  Wednesday during the day, the smell coming out of my nose must have been horrible.  People were making faces etc.  When I tested my breath, that was bad too.  I was really upset.  I was so depressed, I didn't even do it in the evening when I got home.  I did it again Thursday morning.  Awful smell from the nose during the day.  People were coughing and saying it smelled on the bus.  I stayed home Friday.  I had battled bad breath for a LONG TIME.  But, the bad smell from the nose was a new thing (which I can't smell/test myself).  It's one thing to just keep your mouth shut, it's a whole other thing to not be able to exhale/breathe without being thoroughly embarrassed.  I stayed home Friday and would not leave my apartment.  I was so upset.  I didn't do any flip turns (though I had planned to).  I stayed home Saturday and did not do any flip turns.  I was still very upset.  Here's the thing.  When I would do them, with the saline I wouldn't get any real gunk out.  It was just thick, clear, with areas of whitish mucus, but nothing extreme.  I went back to this site and saw a post about using grapefruit seed extract and it being a miracle worker.  I had used GSE in my neti pot before and was convinced that this was what brought on the BAD exhalation smell in my nose.  But, I figured I had nothing to lose and added it to my saline solution for the flip turn.  I did it a number of times (laying back on the edge of the bed the way someone suggested in the comments.  This was four in the moring (yes, I stayed up that long b/c I was so upset).  I did a ton of flip turns, holding each one for about 30 seconds or 45...I didn't really time it.  After a series of them (I had gone through maybe two ounces of solution).  I went to pour out the container I had used to expel the solution from my nose, there were BIG SOLID chunks of white stuff in it.  It resembled pieces of crumbled ricotta cheese.  I had never seen anything like it.  There were a whole bunch of these things...as if I had chewed up ricotta and spit it into the container!!  I did it a few more of these.  I didn't get any more ricotta cheese (maybe one little piece that you could barely see) and decided that it was time to go to sleep.  It was 5am.  I brushed my teeth, tongue, gargled w/ GSE in water and went to bed.  I woke up at noon.  I tested my breath by spitting on the back of my hand, letting it air dry and smelling (as I do every morning).  Usually, I catch a whiff immediately.  This time, I had to search HARD to find it.  I eventually did, But the smell was not nearly as putrid.  So, I can say that 7 hrs later (upon waking, no less), my breath's intensity has diminished AND the smell that is released is not as bad.  Usually my breath could smell after an hour and at FULL FORCE.  This is a true miracle for me.  A blessed Sunday.  I thank God for letting me discover your flip turn method and the other post about GSE (putting those two together may have just changed my life).  I don't know about the smell coming from my nose.  I'll have to test it tomorrow.  I'll probably got to the campus health center, tell them I'm sick and as the doctor or nurse if they smell something when I exhale (otherwise I'd just be wayyyy too embarrassed to ask anyone else).   But, yeah I'm going to keep doign this forever.  b/c it can only get better from here.  You know, I had bronchial pneumonia when I was two and always got bronchitis when I was younger (until my mom switched me to soy milk).  I used to drink regular milk all the time.  What I expelled this morning is probably residual from back then...in the '90s!!!  For anyone curious, I bought the Nutribiotic GSE (can be found on amazon or in any healthfood store) and added the amount of GSE they recommended for a nasal rinse to my hypertonic saline solution for the Flip Turn.  The amount of GSE I gargled with was also the amount this company recommended for gargling.  I will also post this on the other forum (the one that told me about the GSE) so that it can help them as well.  I think the Friggy flip turn + GSE can help a lot of people!  Thanks again and have a blessed day!!  Oh, and for people wanting to view either forum, just click on my profile and find the comments I've posted.  That will take you to the other site so you can view the discussions in entirety.  

by pauluk2, Oct 06, 2009 04:50PM
i have a foul smell in my nostrils which im about to visit the doctor with but am wary i will get fobbed off or ignored this smell has made my life miserable for the last couple of weeks your information has been most helpful i dont actually think my breath smells as yet or its not noticable to me but my taste is slowly getting worse help do i go to my docs or not initially paul uk

by friggy, Oct 07, 2009 11:31AM
pauluk2

Always go see a doctor first, preferably an ENT.  If you get fobbed off or ignored, which isn't very likely, reference this ENT forum (topic: Sinus Odor) on medhelp to show that your problem is not that unusual.

by tried12, Oct 07, 2009 03:46PM
Hi Friggy,

I have suffered from bad breath and nasal odor for about 8 years now.  I recently did a antibiotic treatment for bacterial overgrowth in my gut, not sure of any results yet as I don't get the nasal odor all the time usually just twice a month for 2 days, but my breath is always bad.  

Yesterday I tried your sinus flush, I've always flushed on and off but not in this way.  I did get alot of clear thick mucus out each time yesterday and today with spots of green/yellow mucus and a couple times some black stuff (in small amounts).  

The problem I'm having is the congestion in my sinsus that's occured due to the flushing and the clogging of the ears which is a pain.  Am i doing it wrong?  And what about adding the GSE... good idea, bad idea.  

I have seen an ent about my nasal odor and of course they know nothing, one actually told me "I just have to live with it"!!!  I would love get rid of this and get on with my life.  I see some people have had success with this, do you know if their odor has come back or have they "been cured".  Sorry for all the questions, I've tried everything and I'm just plain tired!!!

by ihatesinusproblems, Oct 07, 2009 05:43PM
I posted too soon.  I'm still having trouble.  How frequently should I do the nasal rinse?  I'm going to keep trying

by friggy, Oct 08, 2009 08:14AM
tried12

If you are getting clogging in your ear, it may not be a good idea to continue flushing. The nasal congestion is normal for a flush, lasts a few days.  On advice from an ENT, I do not recommend the GSE, although some posters over the years have had success.  The green spots could be just normal bacteria, but the yellow and black stuff could or could not be a source of your problem.  You may want to try a Grossan Irrigation Machine, which would be less likely to get water into your ears.

by friggy, Oct 08, 2009 08:21AM
ihatesinusproblems

I posted too soon, also.  Fortunately, I can delete.  If you got foul-smelling chunks coming out, you may be on the right track.  It took me 2 weeks of twice-a-day flushing to get rid of my original "incurable" sinus problem.  However, you should go to the campus health center and make sure there is no other cause of your problem.

by ihatesinusproblems, Oct 10, 2009 04:19PM
Hi Friggy,
But, here's the thing.  The more I flushed, the worse the smell from my nose got.  What do you think?  It got so bad, people many, many feet away could smell it.  It got that bad!  So, clearly there was a correlation, but I wasn't sure if the flush was making things worse or if it was ridding my nasal passages of a lot of gunk.  Here's the million dollar question: When you needed two weeks to rid yourself of the smell, did it get worse (exponentially worse) before getting better?  Thanks

by hope_i_am_cured, Oct 11, 2009 11:24AM
Hi...I recently had sinus surger 8 weeks ago.  Is it ok to do this bending forward flush now?  The doctor told me he did see evidence of fungus when he went in...although I never had a smell like I do now in my left nostril, which is fungus according to the video screen from my last visit.  He gave me diflucan.  Do you know about how long the difulcan will take before it gets rid of the fungus?  He told me to stay on it for two weeks.  I have been on it for 3 days.  I do regular saline flushes twice a day...will the sinus rinse turn flush get rid of the fungus as well and how long might it take?  

Thank you!

by friggy, Oct 12, 2009 11:45AM
ihatesinusproblems

What the flush does best is open up clogged sinus passages by shrinking swollen mucus membranes.  Along with the gunk, probably more of the smell is coming out through the now larger openings.  Is it possible for you to be referred to an ENT so that he or she could have a look in there and see what's in your sinuses?

by friggy, Oct 12, 2009 11:48AM
hope_i_am

I would wait until the full course of the prescription, and then ask the doctor if it would be safe to flush, seeing that you have had surgery and all.  I prefer not to suggest anything that interferes with medical treatment, but rather as a last resort if medical treatment has not succeeded.

by ihatesinusproblems, Oct 12, 2009 04:02PM
yes...everything looks normal.  I've seen 4 ENTs.  I talked to one about the smell.  He gave me antibiotics.  I'm not sure they're helping that much

by Elgrizzle, Oct 14, 2009 01:20AM
http://www.sinuses.com/fungal.htm

This is a very interesting read. With research it claims over 95% of chronic sinusitis cases are fungal.

by Elgrizzle, Oct 14, 2009 01:26PM
I am currently in contact with BC medical association, and a research team in Florida. I am going to see about getting grants to conduct research on this issue. Depending on wether this goes through, are any of you interested in being tested? Everything would be paid for including flight, food, and hotel. This might take a while for approval, but if enough people have this condition, it might just work.

Please let as many people know as you can, perhaps a website like nasalodor.com might be a good idea. I will work on this too.

by friggy, Oct 14, 2009 06:17PM
ihatesinusproblems

I don't really know what to tell you at this point, beyond pure speculation, and seems like your problem has gone beyond the knowledge of some ENT's.  Those chunks that came out of your nose could provide a clue, but I've no way of testing them.  I've done the flush hundreds of times, when I still had intermittent problems, and for 3 weeks straight, so I still consider it safe long term, but I don't know how long you can stand to do it.

by friggy, Oct 14, 2009 06:18PM
Elgrizzle

Thanks for the information, and good idea for the study.  I think until the internet and medhelp came along, so many people suffered in isolation that nasal odor was a freak disease, and now it looks like it's not that uncommon.

by KristiTeacher, Oct 17, 2009 04:13PM
Ms. Kristi
Thank you guys for this site. I had planned to go to a birthday party today, but found this and just kept reading and reading. I have suffered from post nasal drip for the past year, with terrible breath. The worst of it is, I am a school teacher. My students hold their noses while I teach, people have stood away from me. I totally understand being very depressed over the situation. I've just started to flush my sinuses each morning ( although I haven't tried the flip turn yet) and lots of thick, yellowish mucus comes out and sometimes small strings of black. My breath has improved, how do I know? My students don't hold thier noses near as much! and I do test it with a tongue scraper and although there is a smell, its not nearly as bad as it was. My question is this, what is the best way to test your own breath? I've also just visited the doctor and the medication only worked a little.

Friggy, did you too suffer from bad breath during that time, and did the flush cure this as well as the other symptoms?

by friggy, Oct 17, 2009 11:20PM
Kristi

I was a teacher, also, when my sinus problems got so horrendous, and my breath wasn't bad, but my students considered me semi-nasty because I was always hawking and spitting out the post-nasal yuck between classes in our outdoor buildings. Fortunately, the flush cured all symptoms.  The regular sinus rinse seems to be doing the job for you, judging by the schmoo coming out, so hopefully you won't have to progress to a Flip-Turn.  

by Elgrizzle, Oct 18, 2009 02:30PM
Well it seems someone beet me to the punch. I will look into what these people can offer. http://www.isbor.net/
They research odor of all kinds.

So here is a list of things you can do to diagnose the source of the smell. This will help you drastically. Please read this.

Most of you have already done this, but get your teeth checked. If you have wisdom teeth and you dentists think they may be causing a problem, get them removed. If you have a cracked tooth that they haven't noticed before, get it removed. Don't get any root canals, get the tooth removed and replaced with porcelain. If you have mercury fillings, get them replaced with porcelain.

Now here are some tests you guys can do. Get your Doctor to refer you to an ENT. Tell the ENT your problems (especially the odor) He will look up there, if he finds something, then medications and the flip turn rinse will probably get rid of the problem (unless surgery is absolutely required). If he doesn't find anything, get a CT scan. If nothing shows up, it may not be a sinus infection, unless it is allergic, and/or the infection is submucosal (undetectable). Cultures can be taken, but they are not effective as advanced bacteria/fungus is proven to move away from the site of aggravation. In this case we must diagnose other areas to make sure the source of the bad odor, infection, and allergies are not coming from somewhere else. Have blood test, urine test, stool sample, and H-pylori test done. If the H-pylori test is negative (and you notice a fecal odor), try the treatment therapy for H-pylori anyways (metronidazole, amoxicillin, raperbazole) , this could very well work (it has for me, cleared up my sinus inflammation too). Check for everything.

[B] If that is negative, try this... Well actually try this today anyways... [/B]

Take a clean blanket (that has no odors), fold it up a few times so it has a lot of surface area you can breath in to. Kneel down on the floor and bend over the blanket. Take a deep breath, and breath out your nose directly into the blanket (very slowly and for a very long time, at the end even squeeze your stomach) until everything is out. Then smell. Observe the odor. If you detect a distinct musty odor (you may have liver problems) if you detect an ammonia type odor (you may have kidney problems) if you detect a sweetish/fruity odor (you may have diabetes) if you detect a fecal type odor (you may have H-pylori, and least likely you may have liver problems). Tell your doctor about the odors if you have any of them, and follow the protocol of testing ie. (if you have a musty odor, tell the doctor and any other symptoms that you have pertaining to liver problems and ask to see an endocrinologist) as blood tests don't always show positive results for all diseases.

If you notice the musty smell, stop drinking immediately, and stop eating meat and eggs. Go on a high complex carbohydrate diet, and take milk thistle, this could help clear up the musty smell, but definitely see your doctor.

Also, do the same thing with your mouth in a different area of the blanket. See if you can differentiate between the two. If there is no difference it may be metabolic and not sourced in the sinus. If it is coming just from your mouth, you could have oral odor from a specific mouth disease, or it could be digestive related.

A lot of times sinus and odor problems can be digestive, and simple increasing the motility of the intestines can temporarily add relief. If you have chronic constipation, using a laxative may help temporarily relieve odor. If bacteria sits in your intestines for too long, it can cause an infection. See about the source of your constipation if you have it. Supposedly lime enemas have helped people with nasal odor on a PATM forum.

If all else fails get your lungs checked. And if nothing shows up, then its all in your head (or we need to do more research) So start thinking positive, and take your mind away from the problem and on to something that you actually want to think about. Do this for me please. The power of thought is psychosomatic, it can actually cause/heal disease. I believe we will be healed of this issue, so in the meantime, do yourself a favor and don't associate with the issue, look at it objectively, and don't care about. Think about pleasant things. Give your mind a break. Be happy. It will give your body a giant immune boost! It will be the biggest help of all.

This should help you all. Thank you, and you will all be cured!


by carpenter421, Nov 02, 2009 10:40PM
Hi! I was wondering if you think surgery to remove adnoids can reduce chronic sinus infections? I would very, very much like to hear your opinion on this!

by friggy, Nov 04, 2009 02:51PM
I do not know anything about adenoids.  All I know is that if you have a chronic sinus infection, and you wash out the infected mucus with saline, the sinus infection usually then goes away, if it is caused by a bacteria, and often with viruses and fungi. That is what I am going to stick to, from this day forward.

I'd advise you to ask a doctor, perhaps an ENT, and if you don't like the answer, ask different doctors until you get an answer that sounds very plausible.

by musicislife305, Nov 04, 2009 07:36PM
Loved reading your article in re: The Flip-Turn Sinus Flush.  I gave it a go, and it really cleared out my sinuses where I can breathe so easily.  However, I have an issue with this severe odor in my nose that occured after vomiting... (gross)... Some came out of my nasal passages and ever since everything smells of vomit/rotten cheese.  I am going to try your Sinus Flush method a few more times and hope that gets rid of this nasty, nasty, nasty, rotten, disgusting smell!  So glad I came across your page!!!

--Cynthia

by jilly702, Nov 05, 2009 12:03AM
Hello there, you journal is better than anything I have read on this topic.  It is So noble for taking the time to write all this,
for the pure joy of helping people!!
I am also having problems with sinusitis since 2006, wich has made my life filled with orrible feelings, such as vertigo, ringing in my head, pressure, itchy ears, flapping ear drums, nasal clear discharge, and of course axiety.
Over the corse of those years, I have seen five different ENT, surgery was raccomanded by only one of them.
My CT scan shows a moderate and mild left and right inflammation with thickning of mucus in my left.
A culture was done in April  after I begged this Dr, came back positive with a nasty bacteria gram negative, very hard to kill.
I could speculate that the test might have been contaminated, since took 16 days to come back, a little too long!!!
Treated with 15 days of Cipro, and another 16 days with Avalox..didn't work!  My Gp took another culture but nothig showed up!
Had blood test done for allergy, resulting in a mild allergy to dust mites, oh also had a steroid shot in my arm, that was last year...well of course that didn't help either!
Spent also $ 6000 for crown in my left, under the latest ENT raccomadatio, no luck!  He also want to repeat the culture, wich I haven't done yet.
Now I have been trying your flip for a good ten day...don't know if it will work, I still have all the symptoms, but I am hoping
it will work for me as it did for you.  I feel so helpless, don't know what to do...
Dr Friggy, would you give me your insight, since you have had same issue even longer than me.
I am over all healty 50 years old, but this is ruining my life!!
THANKS AGAIN


by dees1, Nov 05, 2009 04:28PM
I must try this and see if it'll work for me....
Started getting sinus infections 7 yrs ago, before that I didn't understand what sinus pain was. Ever since then I would get a reoccurrence 1 to 2 times a year, I would then see a doc who would give me meds and after 2-4 weeks I'd get better..... Well not this summer! I got the facial pain (left maxillary sinus) on July 3 and it was a battle for the next 10 weeks. All possible meds (2 different antibiotics) and sprays and steroids didn't work. I had 2 CT scans, the first showed a completely blocked maxillary sinus, the second CT (month later) showed little improvement. At my ENT appt after the 2nd scan, he concluded i need surgery - my only option, or "live with it" as he stated. I went for a second opinion... at that appointment I showed the ENT my scans, he confirmed that surgery was needed but also conducted the exam (looking inside my nose), after a while of "digging in my nose" he noticed an obstruction that was too big to "suction out"- I asked him to get it out as I looked on the screen... he said he would "push it downward" and I should hack it up (soooo disgusting) when I did... what I saw floored me! it was a fungus ball the size of about 1 inch by half inch!!! He said that was probably just a chunk of all the fungus that was blocking my sinuses, and we set a date for surgery anyway. Well 3 weeks later, time for my surgery but I feel totally fine, so I went and had an exam done again which showed no obstructions and all was clear, so of course I cancelled my surgery. Now I'm almost 2 months after the "fungus ball" removal and I'm starting to smell/feel like there is another one there obstructing my air way a little bit. I'm thinking I should go and get "flushed" again by an ENT to get any fungus balls out! but I'd like to try your remedy first! Oh yeah! the smell is brutal :(   I'd like to know if anyone out there had a similar experience, love to hear it! such a great topic of conversations.... fungus balls! ha ha :)


by ras20, Nov 06, 2009 12:20AM
Hi, I am new to your group and I wonder if you all can help.  I am 62 years old, and have been healthy.  Last April I had an infected wisdom tooth removed.  Weeks before and after I had terrible sinus issues (NEVER had a sinus infection before)  Dentist discovered a tiny fistula, a hole to my sinus.  Told me not to blow my nose for 3 weeks.  When I went back, he said it was closed (and in fact, foul tasting drainage had stopped) but x ray showed my sinus was still infected, my sinus was still clogged.  I was on assorted antibiotics for 6 months. (I rarely take antibiotics)
My sinus (it's only left side, site of tooth) are much improved.  I probably did have a bacterial infection as well.  But, I have expelled several fungal balls over the past few months (either through my nose, or mouth), I have a putrid smell all the time.  The muscus is yellow (some days more than others), and I sleep with those nasal strips.  I netti pot 3 times a day and have tried all kinds of home remedies (tea tree oil, etc.)  My problem is I do not have health insurance (only catastrophic... $10,000 deductible) and won't get medicare for 3 more years.  How do I know if this is really dangerous, without doctor run-around?

I know for sure they are fungus balls.  The first one kind of shocked me...this gray, clay-like ball in the shape of my sinus, came out as I was swallowing.  There have been several more.  However, I am seeing a change...last one was softer and more yellow than gray.  That was 2 weeks ago.  The bad taste also seems better, but I feel even more nasal drip.
NONE OF THIS BEFORE EXTRACTION.....

I have little trouble with total congestion (did this spring)...drinking lots of fluids to keep discharge moving, which is now a pale yellow (not green, as before.)
Everything I've read about surgery is that it oftentimes doesn't work.
...and then there's the cost.
But, I just don't feel like "me" anymore.  

Wish I could do the SHOWER FLUSH, by I have benign horizontal vertigo , which I keep well-under control--but upside down is just out of the question.... any alternatives?
THANK YOU



by friggy, Nov 06, 2009 10:38AM
To ras20

If you page up to the comment i made to "badsmell" on July 19, 2009, I wrote about my experience with a Sit-up version of the flush, which worked pretty well.  Just make sure you do it on a soft surface in case you get dizzy.  I will be doing this method if I need it in a few years, I'm sure.  Also, if your infection is due to a tooth infection, the infection usually is in the maxillary sinuses, and can be flushed effectively with a Neilmed Sinus Rinse from the drugstore, which is considerably less risky.

To musicislife

Yeah, I'd recommend flushing all the hurl out, this method should do the job, otherwise it could form a colony in your sinuses.

To dees1

That's a rather impressive fungus ball, kinda makes you think of the movie Alien.  I had a more meager fungus-ball, and some flushing afterwards has kept it from coming back.  My sinuses are still clear after 4 years.

by friggy, Nov 06, 2009 10:40AM
jilly702

Your CT scan shows congestion in your sinus.  Do you know which sinus it is?  If it is in your upper sinuses (frontal or sphenoid) it sometimes takes a lot of flushing to open up the passages to there.

by jilly702, Nov 06, 2009 10:56AM
Thanks for posting, my is mainly in the left maxillary moderate anf mild in right!!
Seeing a Dr again Monday, but my insurence will not cover, supposly is the 3rd best in country!!
He didn't do much the first time 375$ later, this time I have to pay 200$, In will be in the street soon..lol

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