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Tramadol & Ultram Recovery Room Part 41

Jan 19, 2011 - 264 comments
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tramadol

,

Recovery

,

ultram

,

Healing



Welcome Tramadol Warriors!

We're all so glad to see you here.

This is the place to be if you are trying to recover from Tramadol ...

Please make yourself at home!

Love and Healing,
Emily

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by StephC28, Jan 19, 2011
Hope everyone makes it over here from Part 40 (Thanks, as always, to Emily who hosts this forum)

Really glad to see all the new people on here (and some old ones posting again)!

The Thomas Recipe for detoxing from opiates can be found by searching for it in Google. Lots of really good suggestions in there that many of us have used some or most of. Especially the vitamins and amino acids (in my opinion). All this type of stuff can be found at a pharmacy or health food store (like Whole Foods).

I found the following list on this forum back in 2008 (from Fireman) and found his suggestions to be useful (as he says, he’s not a doctor, this is just his experience. I thought the B-12 tabs were a life-saver (along with a spoonful of honey for energy). Never took GABA or Saint Johns Wart (personal preference):

“First and for most, if you can take off work for 3 days.
-Do not just stay in bed or sit inside and mope all day. Set your alarm for 8am and force yourself out of bed. Get out of the house and take a walk. Do things that take your mind off of the withdraw.
-The fallowing vitamins and food will be posted in Morning, Afternoon and Night.
-Morning
.Eat a light breakfast, preferably a Banana (it will help increase GABA levels in your brain) and wash that down with some pomegranate juice. POM juice is brain food.
.Daily Multi Vitamin
.l-theanine (increases brain serotonin, dopamine, GABA levels) in layman's terms it increases happy feelings in your brain. dose: 100mg
.Sub-Lingual B-12(gives you a lot of much needed energy) dose: 1,000mcg
.B-Complex Sustained release (helps maintain energy throughout the day) dose: B-100
.Saint Johns Wart (promotes a positive mood) dose: 300mg
.GABA sub lingual tabs (increases GABA levels in your brain) these help with anxiety and depression. dose: 125mg
.Vitamin D-3 (helps support a positive mood) D-3 is absorbed through UV rays from the sun. If anyone ever wondered why they feel down and out in the winter time, its because your not getting out side enough to absorb the UV rays from the sun. Also if you can go tanning twice a week. Tanning beds will give you tremendous amounts of D-3. I went tanning on my second day off of Tramadol and came out feeling a lot better.
-Afternoon
. Eat a healthy lunch and drink a little bit of caffeine. (coke or some tea)
.Sub-Lingual B-12
.Saint Johns Wart
.l-theanine
-Night
.Pig out on whatever you want. Eat a lot, a full belly makes you tired =)
.Saint Johns Wart
.GABA sub-lingual tab
.Vitamin D-3
. 30 min. before bed or while watching TV in bed drink 1 to 2 cups of calming, relaxing or any other herbal tea that is marketed to produce a good nights sleep.
.50mg of diphenhydramine 15min. before you want to go to bed. (helps you fall asleep)”

Again, these are just other people’s suggestions—you have to find out what works for you. This forum is priceless in terms of both information and support. Ask questions and post your stories. There will always be someone who can relate to you, and whom you may be supporting without knowing it.

hawkfan684 – I have so much compassion for your situation with your bf. I told mine (who, like yours, knew about previous problems with the pills), and he was upset at the lying more than the drug taking (he always said if I was having trouble with them to just tell him and he’d help me…but I didn’t...) We are still struggling to make it through. Right now you have to be good to yourself only. If you think telling him will cause problems to the point of possibly not getting off these pills…then I wouldn’t. Wait until the WD is over and then sit down and have a talk. When you’re in WD it is so difficult to focus on relationship issues (in my experience), which only made things worse with my bf. ALL THAT SAID, I’m glad it’s all out in the open and he knows. I just think it made my week of acute WD worse. I know this is wordy—I guess what I’m trying to say is be good to YOU. Whatever you need is the right thing to do. Just stay the course and get this drug out of your body (and mind) at all costs.

Ducky444 – welcome! You sound strong and sure of yourself. That’s half the battle. I found that once my mind was made up to get rid of Tramadol, my body was more capable of handling WD. I’m on day 18 today, and very few symptoms remain. It goes faster than you think! Imodium AD and Tums and LOTS of peppermint (or blended mint) tea for your stomach! I also started taking pro-biotics a few days ago and I no longer have intense GI pain (not sure if it just subsided because I’m coming up on 3 weeks or if the pro-biotics helped….probably worth a shot though!)

Rainallday – Tramadol’s the big one. You’ll get after the cigs when the time is right. I have the utmost faith in you! :)

Be well


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by hawkfan684, Jan 19, 2011
I know I have made a lot of longs posts today and I apologize for that.  I just have lots of questions going through my mind right now.  For anyone who has already gone through or is going through tram w/d, did or do you have the feeling where you just want to be by yourself.  My boyfriend gets off work in 20 mins and i feel irritated about that.  I love him with all my heart and plan on telling him about the tram and ya I am scared to but its not the reason I feel irritated.  Right now I just feel like being by myself.  Is that weird?????  Like I don't feel sad just irritated.  I guess I am still somewhat hesitant on telling him because part of me feels that if I do its just going to make me think about the w/d all the time even more.  I feel like if I don't tell him I wont think about it has much.  To me it is just WAY easier to deal with it and talk about with ppl I don't know and are going through the same thing as I am.  I guess I am just really wondering if this normal and part of the withdraw.  Like I have mentioned in a couple of my last long blogs (which again I am really sorry about) I have withdrawn other pills twice.  The first one all I did was sleep, and the last one withdrawing from oxy and hydro I was scared to be alone and was always thinking about my w/d symptoms constantly.  This time around all I wanna do is be left alone.  Idk just want to know if this is common.  I wish I had learned my lesson the first two times but they always say the third times the charm.  A promise I need to make to myself and keep!!!

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by Ducky444, Jan 19, 2011
Hawkfan, Not advice on telling or not telling-I haven't told a soul until this forum found me. I work in the "healing" fields and I find my professional peers to be awfully judgmental and biased about addicts of any kind. So I haven't gone to the pros for that reason.  I wish I could share it openly like I did with alcohol-even though I tired of the label "alcoholic" which I never had until I quit... Rambling. Maybe you're doing the inner work you need to do to get better, this time, and need alone time. Sounds positive really. Good luck whatever you do do for you.

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by Ducky444, Jan 19, 2011
Thank you for the comments and recipe StephC28

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by MyFreedom, Jan 19, 2011
hawksfan..... Yes, I think it's the antidepressant side of tram that does that to us (that makes us want to be alone). Tram is just that way. It tries to separate us from everything that we once found important.  Fight through it.....it gets better.

rainallday..... I totally agree.....wait to tackle the cig problem later. I was very ambitious in the beginning too....wanted to stop drinking sodas/caffeine and a couple of other small, but unhealthy habits. My doc specifically told me "one demon at a time, dear". You'll be stronger later on and have more "tools" under your belt to be able to better deal with the smoking issue once you've defeated tram. Hang in there and focus on being tram-free for right now.

On a somewhat random note... I was bored this morning when hubby and kiddo left for work. So I started channel surfing trying to find something to watch on tv. We have HBO OnDemand here and I took a look through all the documentaries that are currently viewable and came across one on addiction. I knew a good deal of the info in the show, but it was very interesting to watch it. If you don't have HBO OnDemand, you can view it online too (it's only like 20 minutes long, but very interesting). Since this site won't let me post websites, the best way to find it is by googling this "interview with dr nora d volkow". It should bring up several results, but I think the second one is the one that will take you to the video.

Strength to all
:)



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by tutie52, Jan 19, 2011
Emily, Hi. Boy when I saw Tramadol I FREAKED. Sorry to use such a word BUT that is what they tried on me for my chronic back /leg pain. Injury in 1999. I was helping an elderly gentleman lift 80lb bags of dry concrete mix into his pickup, 4 of them, literally FELT something POP in my lower back. It wasn't until 3 days later that the leg pain began. L4-L5 disc rupture. I'm sure you've heard all the stories. Anyway 4 lumbar surguries later and 3 fussions and my prognosis is "FAILED BACK". TRAMADOL-ULTRAM,  well thankfully my body said "no way". Broke out in a serious rash and had severe headaches. Still on meds because I have tried everything they have to offer and thankfully at this moment the meds are letting me function. Everyone is different, everyone has their past demons. Sweetie I hope that whatever you decide for yourself that it allows you to at least function because with that there is the knowing that you have the dignity to get up and DO everyday what you need to do. Whatever that may be. I do understand and my heart goes out to you. Stay strong in your mind in whatever path you take and remember, no one should have to live in pain, on one. Now if we could just get the infinitely challenged FDA to grow some humanity maybe there would be a chance for us AND some heartless doctors too!!!

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by hawkfan684, Jan 19, 2011
Well I didn't tell my boyfriend about the tram.  I told him that I felt like i was getting the flu or the body flu.  Somewhere in our conversation he did ask me if I have ever took pills since the last time and I told him no.  I WILL tell him eventually but just not right now.  I feel it will make the w/d process go a little bit easier and it will help me not to constantly think about what I am going through.  I pray to God that this time won't last as long as the last one did.  I was on more potent painkillers and for a lot longer time.  So hopefully 4 months of taking tram wont last as long.  I am going to the store to pick up some of the suggested vitamins etc and hope they bring some relief b/c tomorrow is day 3 and I have to work(yikes).   I do however have a 3 day weekend where I am really thinking of starting my wellbutin.  Part of me is still nervous to start it again but its something I should have stayed on from the begining then I wouldn't be going through this right now.

Have any of you ever taken Wellbutrin or know if it will help the w/d symptoms or will it make it worse????....really hope to get some feed back on that  

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by doonthegallowgate, Jan 20, 2011
Hi, i have been on Tramadol for almost 2 years now. I was originally prescribed it for pretty severe back pain following an accident i had. I am under 30 but these pills are now a big part of my life and are something i always need to have with me. Taking them now is more about feeling well that relieving the pain i get. I tried twice over the past couple of years to stop altogether but both times the withdrawls were too bad. I was taking 10  50mg capsules per day but for the past 8 months or so,  after consulting with my doctor about it becoming an addiction, i have managed to get down to 6 50mg capsules per day. I was however also prescribed 300mg of Gabapentin to take per day whilst trying to cut down on the Tramadol. So at the moment i am on 300mg of tram and 300mg of gabapentin every single day. I am worried i am doing real harm to my body though and i don't know what to do about it. When i wake in the mornings, if i take a deep breath i get paid in my lower back, in the kidneys area. Once i have taken my Tramadol (which is pretty much the first thing i do when i wake up) i'm fine after an hour but every single morning i am having pain in this area. Any ideas what this might be? Is it normal?

I feel as if i can't win. Even if i DO manage to eventually get off Tramadol, i am still going to need some sort of pain relief for my back pain so i am able to work, so does that not mean i am just going to get hooked on something else?

It was never explained to my how addictive this drug was and now it has a real grip on my body.



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by kaz47, Jan 20, 2011
Hi everyone - glad to see you are all hanging in there. Day 10 since my husband last took tramadol - most of the withdrawal effects seem to have abated - however he is still suffering from Restless Legs and insomnia - RLS keep him awake until about 4 or 5 in the morning then he manages to grab 3 or 4 hours if he can. Unlike many posters he is FULL of energy and feels that it is not now the RLS that is keeping him awake but the fact that for the first time in about 2 years he feels really AWAKE! I feel that if we can get rid of the RLS this will help with his sleep though as even when he does manage to sleep it is a restless sleep. Am checking the post box daily for delivery of the Hylands Resful Legs Remedy which I had to order as they don't sell it here. Physically he is doing well - mentally I am worried about the effects of the insomnia - prior to his back operation (3 years ago) he was a good sleeper - he is outside all the time at the moment (at least 8 hours) working in the garden so it is not as though he is not using up energy. Anyone a bit further along the road than us who can advise when the insomnia is likely to abate? He is determined not to go to the doctors for medication to help him sleep but if this is likely to go on much longer not sure if mentally he will be able to cope with being up most of the night. Anyone out there been on the same dosage ie never went over 4 x 50mg tabs a day often only took one 50 mg tab a day over a 2 year period, who can throw some light on how long it may take to crack the insomnia problem?

Steph - thanks for the really helpful list posted above - he is taking multi vitamins and eating well - lots of fresh air and exercise etc and is physically in better shape than I thought he would be having read a lot of the postings. You are about a week ahead of us in time  without tramadol - did you have insomnia problems and if so how long did it take to get a good nights sleep?

Still can't believe that tramadol has caused such chaos to so many people - we were in total ignorance as to what it could do - when my husband finished taking them he honestly was totally unprepared for the awful withdrawal effects - if it wasn't for the people here and the brilliant advice and support i think we would have gone insane by now! 10 days in and am so proud of him having got through those fiost days - to all of you newbies on here - have faith and keep strong - one day at a time and you will get better and start seeing the world in colour again instead of grey!

Comments re the insomnia situation would be appreciated - have a good day (or night!) wherever in the world you are and remeber you are not alone!



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by madtram, Jan 20, 2011
Doon, it's likely that your lower back pain is caused by the overnight decrease in tramadol levels.  I say this because it's resolved after taking your morning dose & it's also common when your tramadol levels get low, for rebound pain to occur in the area of the body where your original pain was.

You could also get a complete blood panel to exclude any kidney or liver related damage.

Some of us have found that tramadol actually increased our pain & once tolerance set in, the drug pretty much ceased to be effective at all.  Rebound pain is often worse during tramadol withdrawals but you really need to wait until you are off tramadol for a while to assess what level of pain you are left with.  You may find that the gabapentin on its own is just as effective once you are completely free of tramadol &  your doctor may be ok with prescribing you a standard opioid for breakthrough pain.  (Tramadol is a partial opiate agonist which means it does not completely occupy the pain receptors & the antidepressant element has been added to make up for the decreased opioid component).

If you do want to get off tramadol, a slow taper is usually best & should help not to throw your body into unmanageable levels of rebound pain.

Hawkfan, Wellbutrin should help with energy levels & rebound depression in tramadol withdrawals.  I have only seen positive reports from those using it during withdrawal.

StephC28, so glad that you are doing so well at day 18 and helping others.



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by doonthegallowgate, Jan 20, 2011
Thank You Madtram, It could be perhaps that my Tramadol levels are low as you say. I don't think it is any sort of rebound pain though as i was prescribed tramadol for pain in an upper part of my back, a very distinctive pain that i know only too well but the pain i get in the morning is in my lower back and nothing like the pain i have in my upper back. It's more evident If i take a deep breath, it feels like all my insides are tightening in my lower back.

When i tried to come off Tramadol before, what made it unbearable for me was funnily enough a feeling in my lower back, like i had to keep tensing and strecthing it and i couldn't control it. All my muscles were going and it's like i had to expel the energy somehow. Like something was under my skin and almost tickling my muscles to make me move them and tense them. So weird but completely unbearable.



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by madtram, Jan 20, 2011
Kaz47, the insomnia is often the last of the symptoms to resolve.  If your husband is now getting a few hours even with the restless legs, hopefully things will improve rapidly once this symptom is treated. Just FYI, some people have reported that they needed to take many times the dose of the Hylands indicated on the bottle to get relief.  If you can get Indian tonic water in France, it also contains quinine which is the active ingredient in the Hylands & it may even be worth asking a pharmacist if they have quinine available as it used to be a prescribed remedy for RLS.

My dose was the same as your husband's but over a much longer period & I developed the insomnia while I was still on the tramadol as I became tolerant to the dose & by not increasing it developed withdrawal symptoms.  I didn't handle the insomnia well & turned to Lunesta, a prescription sleep med.  I wish I had just toughed it out as the withdrawals & the insomnia were both much worse when I came off the Lunesta.  

It may take up to a month before something approaching normal sleep returns but if your husband is in a position to grab some sleep when he can, IMO, this is a better way to let all neurotransmitters recover than complicating things by adding a sleep med which can also create receptor tolerance.  Sedative antihistamines like doxylamine can work during this time & don't have the tolerance effect.

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by madtram, Jan 20, 2011
Doon, I was prescribed the tramadol for trigeminal neuralgia but whenever I left it too long between doses, I would get sharp lower back pain, akin to sciatica.  This pain was always resolved by taking the tramadol.  Strangely, I did not suffer from that pain during tramadol withdrawal even though I pretty much quit cold turkey.  Others have reported rebound pain in new areas, what a great drug huh?

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by doonthegallowgate, Jan 20, 2011
It's an evil drug. But if i don't want to feel terrible, i need it.

I tried cold turkey before and failed miserably. The restless back thing that i get makes it unbearable. I can't control it and it drives me crazy.






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by madtram, Jan 20, 2011
Have you tried a really slow taper, as in dropping say 25mgs a week, this may be more bearable in conjunction with the gabapentin. Baclofen is another antispasmodic which works on the GABA B receptors, (Gabapentin acts on the A receptors) & can be less sedating than gabapentin, so may be worth a try.

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by Ducky444, Jan 20, 2011
Mad tram, you are so knowledgable about all of this. I was not surprised to learn about the antidepressant properties of this drug. I researched the one that is structurally closest to that in tram is effexor which turns out to be one of the worse to wd from. No wonder i felt so good, at first! Thanks for telling me doc.
Hawk fan, glad you made it through another night! Me too! I had a tough start today but I'm going to rally.
Doom, good for you, glad you here too! Maybe you'll give yourself a whole lifetime of freedom. I found the original pain to be nothing compared to the pain that followed this drug. I'd welcome it in exchange. Seems like the weird nerve problems are different for everyone; back, feet, legs. Wherever it is creepy, scary, painful. Thank all of you provide inspiration and courage for me.

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by hawkfan684, Jan 20, 2011
Last night I went to two stores to get the vitamins and minerals listed in StephC28.  I took 2 3mg melatonin and at first it make me really tired and so I thought that it would help me sleep.  Well I was still awake at 630 this morning and finally broke down and took a xanax and low dose of lorazepam.  It eventlly helped me to finally fall asleep around 7.  I slept mostly till noon but forced myself up bc I have to work at 145 and right now I feel really drowsy from the stuff I took to sleep.  So they only think I notice today is that I feel drowsy, foggy in the head, and some soreness which I am okay with. But just thought I would check in tell you all about my night.  I know there will be more nights like that to come.  Now I need to start getting ready for work.....wish me luck....I tell how it went when i get home.

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by rainallday, Jan 20, 2011
Good luck Hawkfan684.... Beware the other drugs, but you know whats best for you.....

  Ive had a killer headache for 24 hours thats just now easing up some after aspirin and sudafed....
I had another bell go off in my head and I realized I absolutely HAVE to begin 'juicing' again...I have
a basic juicer......everyone should have one if they don't......It's always helped me immensley with my sinus problems when I juice carrots/celery/radish/garlic....When I get better i always forget about the juicer, and its right in front of me in the kitchen, one of those things you see so often you forget its there.....well im going to bi-lo shortly and getting the veggies for juicing...my right sinus has hurt for days...and just having aspirin doesnt always evoke ultimate confidence if you know what I mean....I also ordered vicks vaporub (greaseless cream) on amazon because i read where its fantastic with aches pains and especially headaches and colds....cant wait for it to get here....I already have the regular rub but its greasy as heck and cant (shouldnt) really be used on face and head...
      ever on the lookout for natural cures and remdies from here on out.....I'll share if and when anything helps specific symptoms....
      btw finally tried tonic water with quinine last night, didnt help me....still had restless legs and back.....But I'm really optimistic about the juicing and think it will help with all symptoms...It always worked in the past...Its just such a pain in the arse for a lazy guy like me to prep/make/clean each time I juice....lol....Gotta have disipline.....
   So in summary had a terrible day 17 and 1st half of day 18...Hoping it gets much better this evening with juice....

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by Ducky444, Jan 20, 2011
Thanks for reminding me about juicing I could do that. If I ever leave the house again to get some vegetables. Used to juice daily-even my dog got juice! Stopped being healthy. I am a little discouraged & scared about hearing 2-3 weeks out & even much longer, are still so tough. I am at day 5-6 thinking I'm on my way....I hope I hold on.  Going back is not a happy plan either.

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by remarkablylucid, Jan 20, 2011
Sorry, I know I've already posted about night time anxiety/depression but it's driving me crazy.  I went through this same thing when i stopped taking my anti-depressant and I don't know what to do.  Once it's night time I get this feeling of a sinking pit of despair, that everything is crap and I'll never have a normal life and that I'm all alone and no one cares.  It drives my boyfriend crazy since he's the one who gets the worst of my panic attacks about our relationship and crazy off the wall stuff.  It keeps me from sleeping because I'm anxious about school work and try to stay up to get more done.  Has anyone felt any of this craziness?? Am I losing it forever?

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by rainallday, Jan 20, 2011
Well ducky444 you'll be fine 2 weeks out.....I have other health issues to deal with so its just me im sure...plus im getting on in years at an ancient 50..........sooo....i made my juice a bit ago and put WAY too much garlic from an 'elephant' garlic clove....holy moly brutally strong juice lol....carrot/celery/radish/cucumber/garlic.....followed by a slice of pizza I shouldnt have but i wasnt throwing it out heh....feeling better watching the australian open tennis...
it'll be interesting much later when I try to sleep to see how the juice affects the insomnia....

remarkedlylucid, try to relax and think about planning some more for if insomnia hits...like the hot shower or bath, quick walk outside, cup of hot tea or whatever, write a journal to yourself or a diary, shop ebay or amazon for something for yourself etc etc...I know its hard, and i lost my mind many times days/nights 2-9, but keep in mind the more time passes, the farther along you are in getting better...

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by dani170, Jan 21, 2011
I just read Madtram's small post and almost fell of my chair. At least a month until regular sleep? Holy crap...that's a pretty long time but I guess everyone is different...hope I one of them!!!! lol

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by hawkfan684, Jan 21, 2011
Today at work was okay.  The first two hours were the worst because I was still tired and groogy from barely any sleep.  I took a excedrin and it helped some. Im just glad to be at home.  Tomorrow will be day 4 and another step closer to being done.  I was suppose to work tomorrow but I surprisingly found someone to work for me.  So I now have the next 4 days off which will help tons.  I just wish the nights weren't so brutal.  The insomnia is whats been getting to me the most.  I just have weird feelings when I try to sleep.  When I try to close my eyes and try to fall asleep it's like my eyes won't stay shut.  It's like a complete opposites with little kids who fight to keep their eyes open because they don't want to fall asleep as to where I am fighting to keep them shut but can't.  Also most of my body feels somewhat relaxed when I lay down to sleep except for my butt.  Yes my butt....very weird huh?  It's like my butt wants me to not lay down and instead get up and move around.   Have any of you experienced something similar?????  Also I do start to feel the depression coming and more irritation to almost everything.  I HATE to feel irritated because it makes me even more irritated.  I still hate that I told myself that the reason I need to take all of these pills is so I can have energy, I never seemed to have any, and it will make me feel great and that it's better than going on antidepressants.  Wow it was dumb.  
So tomorrow I have decided to restart my wellbutrin (1 150mg tab once a day).  I figured that I already don't feel great and one of the side affects is insomnia and well already going through that too.  I have never taken an antidepressant before so it does scare me some.  But I figured if I was stupid enough to get myself addicted to to pain killers of all sorts and adderall to help with my depression, then I owe it to myself to actually give this one a try.  Plus I have the next 4 days off to help me adjust to the medicine.  When I was prescribed wellbutrin in June I only took it for one day because it made me feel like I drank like 2 pot of strong coffee, and took lots of otc energy pills.  I have never really like the feeling of caffeine highs or energy pills, they made me feel really jittery.  
As far as taking xanax I am pretty careful about it.  I am a CMA and I am a pill pusher at work so I do know the limits when taking xanax.  It helped me last time and I didn't get addicted because I made sure I didn't over do it to where I would have ended up addicted to that too.  
Do any of you have any other suggestions on what to do/take that will help me sleep.  Last time I started with benadril and that did the exact opposite to me.  I don't know if my body is weird on how it reacts to some meds but it didn't make me tired at all instead it made me wide awake ready to get up and move for the day.   Has anyone else had that happen????????

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by madtram, Jan 21, 2011
Dani, everyone is different.  I was on tram for many years, shorter term users generally do much better.   It's just helpful for those who do suffer weeks of insomnia to know that it doesn't mean they will never sleep normally again, even though it feels that way sometimes.  Everyone has different withdrawal symptoms & the insomnia was the main one for me whereas I never had the restless legs or depression.  Age is probably also a factor, those of us in mid-life, (50ish), are probably a little slower to recover & have other hormonal changes occurring at the same time.

If nothing works for insomnia during withdrawal, the only successful approach I have seen is find some level of acceptance.  This is very much do as I say as I was a dismal failure at this.  Those who did find a way through decided to work with it by finding something relaxing to do while awake, catch up on some movies, books or music, write a journal for your own reference or those who follow, meditate or even try exercising yourself into exhaustion.  

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by rainallday, Jan 21, 2011
You know its funny, I never worried about sleep too much before, or during the tramdaol.......Only during withdrawals because the 'choice' to sleep was gone...(still is at times)...But sitting here I'm thinking of all the days and nights I wish I had more time to do things...And I have a friend who never ever sleeps more than 4-5 hours and is very well balanced and successful...(It was his shop that rescued me on day 6 by putting belts on my broken car on a saturday morning, and for free when I was broke- and was able to wrok delivering pizzas again that night on just a nap)
      The thing is, I felt fear of never being 'normal' again with sleep and that insomnia surely would be the end of me...REJOICE its not true!!! The least Ive slept in the last week is probably 4 hours....I 'used' to do that ALL the time!!
I just forgot....The mind can go round in circles like crazy during the withdrawals....Thats why its great to come here and read nice posts like Madtram's above....It does get more normal in time for everyone.....
    So thanks Madtram for checking in and helping folks with their fears....I think i'm on day 19 now, and I'm finally getting that "I can always catch up' feeling..Much more relaxed about insomnia...and starting to do more chores around the house which really feels good.....
    Stay strong people!!!! (and again thanks to the veterans who come back and post)

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by SheLiz, Jan 21, 2011
Just checking in after being away house/dog sitting for a week without my computer.  I can't believe how many posts there are to catch up on and how many new faces there are.  More people escaping the horrors of tramadol.

Anyway, I'm now almost 60 days away from tramadol now.  I'm also tapering off the fluvoxamine and seroquel now that the trams are under control.  The main thing I am still noticing is a CONSTANT headache, still not back to full energy and sleep is still a problem without the seroquel but I'm working on that.

I'm heading to Vietnam in a couple of days and will be there for 4 weeks.  I'm sure that will help to take my mind off any lingering WDS especially as I will be catching up with my daughter over there.  She's flying in from the UK and we're just going to spend the 4 weeks checking out Vietnam.  There was a time a few long weeks ago that I didn''t think I was going to be able to make the trip due to Tram problems but I'm definitely for than ready and fit to get there.

So, I wish you all well in the meantime and I'll check in again when I get back if not before.



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by dani170, Jan 21, 2011
Hello Madtram. Yes you are completely right...acceptance!! I just tell myself that it won't last and do what I have to do in order to make it another day without tramadol. What's a 1 week without sleep compared to 6 months of Tramadol ruining by body. thanks for your input and support!!!!

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by dani170, Jan 21, 2011
Hawukfan684

Yes, your situation is exactly what I am going through! It's an awful feeling to want desperatly to sleep but your nerves are saying no. Our bodies are just craving something that's not there anymore and right now at 340am, I've accepted the fact that this is one WD that needs to happen. I hate it but our bodies need to get used to having no tramadol. Yes it's sooo frustrating but I just tell myself that I'm one more day clean...I know it's easier said then done and we all want that quick fix for sleeping but I truely think it's just part of healing. Good luck!

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by kaz47, Jan 21, 2011
Hi everyone -thankyou Madtram for your really helpful advice re the RLS and insomnia that is driving my husband up the wall! the Hylands Restful Leg remedy turned up yesterday and he started taking it yesterday evening - he was actually able to go to bed and get some sleep - these little pills made a huge difference to our evening which is the time the relentless (I mean restless!) leg thing usually kicks in. You were right that he did have to take several for it to start to take effect but they do seem to work so I have today ordered some more! Have today been to the local supermarket and bought some Indian Tonic Water which he is going to start with as well this evening - hopefully this wll also help. would advise anyone thinking about quitting tramadol to get a packet of this Hylands stuff just in case - if only we had had some days 1 - 7 I think it would have been so much better for him  Rainallday - you are right - we all take sleep for granted until we can't get it then the fact that we can't get it makes it become the central focus of nearly ALL our waking moments! You sound like you are doing really well - day 19 is a fantastic achievement and its great to hear that sleep is returning.

us being totally clueless my husband quit cold turkey after taking a minimal dosage of tramadol for 2 years for a back injury - if we had known what the withdrawal was going to be like we would have better prepared ourselves and got the remedies that everyone has advised about on this site before he stopped taking them. If you are considering getting off this vile drug best advise that we would offer, whether you go cold turkey or taper, is to look at previous posts and get the various remedies listed that may help you with the withdrawal symptoms.

Now on day 11 and after the best nights sleep he;'s had in 10 days, my husband is looking and feeling so much better - obviously we are not out of the woods yet but hopefully the rls will start to abate with the help of the Hylands and this will in turn have a positive impact on sleep. Sooooooo..... all you people in the first stages, Hawkfan, Dani etc have faith and stay strong - it will get better!

Most of the posts I have read have obviously been from those actually withdrawing from tramadol - there must be many wives, husbands, partners, mums, dads, friends etc who are also participating in the misery caused by this medication and the withdrawal that goes along with it. Have also noted that most posters seem to be from the US. I know for a fact that tramadol is prescribed readily in the UK as a pain relief - particularly for post op symptoms and back problems - and is still being prescribed. It is also prescribed here in France albeit under another name. When we return to the UK later this year I have resolved to somehow make as many people as possible aware of what the effects of taking this drug are and what the withdrawal is like - knowledge is a powerful thing - am going to start with the doctors who initially prescribed it to (and continued prescribing!) it to my husband! Not sure where I will go from there but my resolve to do something about this is as strong as his resolve NEVER to be in this position again.

Today the sun is shining here - I hope the sun is shining on you wherever you are - and if it isn't rest assured it will soon shine again! Stay strong and be hopeful x



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by 444lynn, Jan 21, 2011
StephC28...I will give it a try tonight...Hyland’s Restful Legs.  I should have tried it earlier.  My Dr. gave me ativan and I honestly think it made it worse.  It certainly didn't help.
  
It is nearly 5:00 AM.  My alarm will go off in a half hour...have not gone to sleep yet so time to give up on sleep.  This is really something else... I cannot beleive how bad flopping around for six hours can make your back and shoulders hurt.  
Less than two hours sleep a night for the last five days.
  
Now the good news...after a little less than a month I tapered from six pills a day to 1/4 pill every 12 hours and now have had no Tramadol for 32 hours.

Other than the sleeplessness I feel much better.   Still have nasal symptoms...lessening... but who can complein about a few sneezes.

In the last seven years I have had kidney stones, two ankle surgeries, one back surgery,  alot of pain in both my back and leg.   I beat the widowmaker in 2005 after a year of training for a marathon.   I ran a marathon in Dallas in 2006,  I had another heart attack in 2008.  Since 2006 I've had to much leg pain to do much of anything and got into the pain killer routine and then Tramadol.

Honestly think Tramadol is a lousy drug and should be sued off the planet and we will probably see it on TV commercials in the future.  A huge trap with the same outcome for everyone...additiction and little pain relieve if any.
  
I'm going to live to be 100...only 46 years left.  When I hear someone mention tramadol my ears will perk up and I will be in the conversation.  

Hang in there everyone.  I'm going to go to work now :)

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by lizzielang, Jan 21, 2011
Hello everybody
A long absence from writing.  Just to say it is 49 days since my last tramadol.  A fractured wrist and fractured spine incurred in a fall at xmas stops me from writing much just now- but I do read the posts and am so very impressed with everyones' struggles to be free from this nasty drug.
A special hello to SheLiz who accompanied me on my first nightmare weeks.  I feel good now - but have to admit to having very occasional opioid painkiller medicine for the pain in my back.  However, am slowly weaning off that and the w/d is nothing compared to tram.
My plaster cast is to be removed in Feb and hope to write more then, meanwhile my warmest wishes and healing thoughts are with you all-- the oldtimers and all the new people.
lizzie  

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by wewar, Jan 21, 2011
Three nights of not taking Tramadol. last night was harder than the prevoius two. As predicted the course of withdrawel is not uniform. I use Brufen for the aches and also paracetamol. I do feel positive and i do think the meditation practice i am following is the source. I am also using Binaural beats as well. Has any body heard of this?. It is as far as I am aware proven science but with no real proof of effect yet. Look up brain wave entrainment on google. Wikipedia has a page on it and some samples. The sound is very machine like but not unpleasant. Its an aid to meditation practice and sleep through realignment of the brian waves to patterns associated with bieng relaxed to asleep. regular use is said to have great benefit. I am trying Delta Dreams from a website called www.jetcityorange.com but many cd's are available

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by StephC28, Jan 21, 2011
Hi all. Everyone sounds so strong! This site is really amazing in terms of support and knowledge (both so needed to get through Tramadol WD)!

To the new people: Today is day 20 for me and sleep has “returned,” though I’ve been taking Tylenol PM the past 5 days (I took melatonin the first couple weeks…decided to try Tylenol PM…seemed to work better, though I rather have the “natural” sleep melatonin provides. I’ve never liked the feeling of otc sleep aids the next day). Now that we’re coming up on the weekend and I don’t have to be at work, I’m going to try not taking something tonight and gauge where my body is. The restless leg thing is mostly gone, though I’ve still taken a few Hyland’s at night to “make sure” I can sleep. I do ALWAYS wake up once around 1 am, but I have been able to go back to sleep easily this past week.

Days 1-10 though…I agree with Madtram. Just accept that you will mostly likely not sleep well. In that acceptance there is great relief. I read these forums. And wrote my own “detox journal” so I would remember what I was going through in the future should I ever change my mind and think Tramadol was anything other than a horrific pill. Also, I remembered how much I slept when taking Tram…I thought of those sleepless nights as my body “getting back” the hours it lost to that drug. That thought provided some relief as well.

Day 8 was a real turning point for me (days 2-5 were the worst, 6-7 somewhat better)…but obviously it’s different for everyone. One piece of knowledge that really helped me was someone on here mentioning that the WD is NOT linear. As in, just because you felt great on day 8 didn’t mean day 9 would be even better (though not to scare anyone, because in my opinion EVERY day I can put space between myself and T means it’s a better day than the last). I thought my GI issues were pretty over, but last night they returned. Feel great this morning, but who knows. This is only to say….accept that your WD will take as long as it takes. There is light at the end…EVERYONE says it does get back to normal. It’s just a matter of hanging in there until it does.

444lynn – congrats on 36 hours! The Hyland’s were so helpful it shocked me the first night. Definitely highly recommend.

Kaz- glad you guys are doing better. You’re almost there!

Rainallday – sorry to hear about the headaches. I take plain old ibuprofen when I get one, and it actually seems to work. I’ve heard really good things about acupuncture at “our” stage in the WD…have you ever tried it? I’m thinking about it…Hope the juice works!

hawkfan684 – irritability is a common side effect.  Just remember it’s not “you” in some sense. Deep breath and let it pass.

Be well all

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by Ducky444, Jan 21, 2011
Thanks to all of you, again. It's amazing you understand how I feel. Rainallday and Wewar posts reminds me of the power of spiritual practice-I should know this, meditation was a main ingredient for healing work I went through overcoming a deadly, disfiguring autoimmune disease. Tram ended my spiritual connection.  Incredible how easily I walked away from what works and took the pills instead.  All wrapped up in past shame and guilt and 100 forms of fear. Day 6 today. A tiny bit more grateful today. I have managed to be a brat for over 1/2 Century! Ok store trip, juicing, vitamins and beginning meditation. I remember when I first began meditating it was totally out of the fear of death and trying to not hear my own thoughts.  When I got into it it changed everything. Wish me luck.  

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by dani170, Jan 21, 2011
Hello All!!! So please please please try ASTRAGALUS for RLS. I've been off Tramadol for 3 days which means 72 hours without any sleep and this morning I fell asleep for 2 hours!!!! Not sure if it's the herb working or maybe the withdrawals are lessoning but regardless, I GOT SLEEP!!!
Please try it...you never know!!

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by Ducky444, Jan 21, 2011
Congratulation on the decision to fight the beast. I'm with you.

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by dani170, Jan 21, 2011
Ducky444 I see you supporting everyone on here...amazing!
Hope you all well... lots of love to go around!

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by hawkfan684, Jan 21, 2011
Today is Day 4 for me.  I slept a few hours last night.  I started my wellbutrin this morning.  I don't feel as jittery as I did the last time I tried to take it.  I am glad I don't have to work today because its snowing here and its -2 degrees.  Today I just feel very tired.  My head still feels pretty foggy.  I don't have the chills or hot flashes as much as I did in the first two days.  There are things I would like to get done around the house but I have no motivation so may have to wait til this weekend.  

I am thinking about trying the Hylands for my RLS,  where can you get that at????

Glad to see everyone is staying strong and sticking with it, it's a good feeling.

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by dani170, Jan 21, 2011
Hi Hawkfan684

Your story is soooo exactly like mine! The chills are awful and 10times worse then the flu!
So you can get the Hylands at Walmart but that depends on where you live. I live in Winnipeg Manitoba and they don't
sell it here!!! Hopefully your Walmart does!!
Good luck!

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by dani170, Jan 21, 2011
or ASTRAGALUS at any drugstore pretty much. At this point I'd try anything to get sleep from RLS...god what we put ourselves through...lol

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by Ducky444, Jan 21, 2011
Thanks dani170, I'm posting too much I'm sure- truth is I'm hanging on to this thread by a thread- so glad everyone is here. Each of us in similar or comparable spots. Just trying to survive a horrible trap. I honestly don't know how I'd do this without this site. I find it comforting to somehow live through it all with others doing the same basic thing. The great equalizer. I cannot believe you are in Manitoba-brrrrrr I'm off from work-so Monday will be the biggest test for me.  Very stressful job, drugs helped or so I believed. Hope you sleep soon.

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by dani170, Jan 21, 2011
thanks Ducky444. Thread by thread, minute by minute...
I know what you mean about this site and hearing about what others are going through. It makes what you're going through not so crazy and feels like you're not alone and we're all fighting this battle...together!  There's no such thing as posting too much...anything to help! Just think, soon we'll have that natural high that will help through our stressful jobs and shake our heads wondering why we put our bodies in so much pain. I'm on here quite a bit so if you need to vent or anything, I'm here as well as everyone else!!
Now I'm going outside in -45 to shovel my wonderful driveway...yes brrrrr

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by rainallday, Jan 21, 2011
How yall can stand temperatures that cold is nuts! We're have a record cold winter here, but highs avging 30's and 40's and lows 20's......Normally its mid 50's low 30's....My job moved me here 20 years ago, and I wouldnt go back north to the cold...
     I think I remember getting used to it when I lived in Penna...Anyway yall have my condolensces on the cold...

I slept 3 hours then up an hour then 4 more for 7 hours sleep with no anything to help... The veggie juice did help and I felt calmer....
However I have an abscess that acted up and swelled my gums around that tooth, and I have no money or insurance so I spent the last 4 hours before sleep trying to home remedy the pain and swelling....All I really have is clove oil and peppermint oil which i mixed with olive oil...oh and i have about 12 amoxycillins so i took 1 and will take them for the 4 days they last....New goal will have to be cheap dental clinic which is about $100 per extraction....Amazing how I keep getting obstacle after obstacle this whole month since quitting.....They say what don't kill ya makes ya stronger so thats my 'comfort' That and having quit the evil tramadol...At least I can 'see' what I need to do now rather than living in the haze I was in...

     For yall in the 1st week....remember don't be surprised if depression hits you hard, thats just withdrawals...I cried 100 times over the dumbest things..and almost have to laugh looking back at how fragile I felt...Thank goodness It passes with a little time....Just mentioning it cause everyone is so positive today and I wouldnt want one person who feels depressed to feel left out in the cold.....Dont worry if you feel sad or doomed, it WILL pass and you'll feel stronger tomorrow and or the next day or week....Stay strong and be tough no matter what....Your not alone....

Ok gotta get ready for 3 long 2nd shifts in a row....Have a great evening warriors!!!

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by dani170, Jan 21, 2011
Rainallday

Very good idea about some people on here not having those good days yet. But you're right, they'll come sooner then later!!

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by Ducky444, Jan 21, 2011
There isn't anything worse than tooth pain except maybe lack of sleep. Have you called around for free clinics? We have one that does dental and health and mental health-long wait.... But it's something. Thanks for the messages from all of you,I am thinking of you all and hoping for the best! I thinking day 7 will be even better.

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by SheLiz, Jan 21, 2011
Hi Everyone

                  Hey Lizzie, great to hear from you. I have been thinking about you and hoping all was going well.   I really hope you recover well and quickly from your new injuries.  I'm still have a headache that hasn't left me for a second over the last few months.  It doesn't seem to be getting any better but I'm sure it will fade eventually.  Gotta have faith :-)

                 I'm off to Vietnam to meet up with my daughter next week so will be away from the forum for a while.  I hope to find you in an even better state when I get back.

For everyone on the site keep up the good work, you're all doing great and you will all come out the other end.  It is really Deja Vu reading all the posts here lately.

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by wewar, Jan 21, 2011
midnight here and i am watching a film called Happy go lucky about a primary school teacher in London.Lovely film full of positive vibes. Need a feel good movie to compensate for the nausea and cramps which have just started. Forgot about this with all the mind games I have been trying to avoid. Loperamide should keep me off the can all night but no Buscopan. I know Tramadol will cure it instantly and Tramadol knows I know it. This is night 4

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by solatesolate, Jan 21, 2011
hi all
how come no one is talking 'lawsuit' to get this drug off the market?  i have been on this drug for years don't seem to have a problem  if it works, why do u want to stop?

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by ImDONENoMore, Jan 21, 2011
solatesolate,

I remember you from back in mid-December.  I'm glad you came back - but I'm confused?  I take it from your post today that you're no longer trying to get off this drug?  And I'm also confused why you now state that you don't have a problem with this drug.  If I remember correctly, you were taking 50 pills a day and you were also drinking quite a bit of alcohol as well.

PLEASE PLEASE get help.  I remember we were all very worried about you.  You have to get help from a Dr. for your addiction.  Coming here again is good, but we can not give you the kind of help you need.  At the doses you're taking, this could actually kill you.  PLEASE listen to me and get the help you so desperately need.

Please stop doing this to yourself.  Please.

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by madtram, Jan 21, 2011
Solate, I remember your earlier post about being on a very high dose & you did seem concerned.  Needing to take more & more pills to get any effect is one of the biggest downsides of tramadol as it frequently leads to seizures at high doses.  You say you are not having problems but many of those on high doses thought they were fine too until hit with a seizure.

Tramadol is ok for some people for short term pain relief at prescribed doses but there have been no clinical trials done on long term use.

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by 444lynn, Jan 21, 2011
I got my Hylands Restful Legs today at Walgrens.  Hope it works cause I'm a walking zombie...a handsome one according to my daughter...smart kit.  Two days off Tramadol and as soon as I sleep in some normal fashion life will be great.  
I will post again either in the morning or in the middle of the night.  Someone said just accept you will not be sleeping well and it is easier.  I think that was Madtram.  I agree.  You simply have little control over that and it is easier to accept it and hope for the best.  
At first I let it anger and frustrate me....now it's a challenge and hopefully the last thing I have to beat.  

My kids want to watch a movie...oh God

Nite everyone and hang in there.


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by Sweetstang, Jan 21, 2011
Day 19.

Hi all, its a whole -9 degrees here yes I said minus....been staying busy...inside that is.

Still battling the headaches, MD increased my preventative med..hope that helps. Been gettin in the habit of taking the Execedrine which is just making me rebound, but it also like "fills the void" almost like a placebo thing..I know its weird. Need to break that cycle too.

One thing I need help with, I'll have to ask the therapist next time. I think I have a little anger management issue with dealing with well daily stressors. Like this week, our furnace went out-of course in winter, and we're in the middle of trying to refinance and its been taking over 4 months, were living paycheck to paycheck and were praying this goes thru so we can reduce our mortgage payment. But based on the info I heard this week, not so sure about that. Along with family issues, parents both unemployed, mom chronically sick and was just dx. with diabetes.  Very stressful week and I don't have the trams anymore to "calm" me down.?? Helpful suggestions that has worked for anyone else?

Thanks =)

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by dani170, Jan 21, 2011
To 444lynn

Yes acceptance is what we have to learn. We put ourselves in this situation and have to deal with the withdrawals! I know how you feel since I'm on day 4 with no sleep (MY first 2 hours this morning) which I don't consider sleep!! lol
It's hard but just hang in there and take the Hylands!
Good Luck!

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by ImDONENoMore, Jan 21, 2011
Acceptance.  GREAT response dani.  :)  p.s. hang in there sweetstang, anger is a big part of withdrawal.  it will lessen with time i promise.

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by dani170, Jan 21, 2011
Thanks ImDONENoMore! Accepting and knowing that this is what we all have to go through in order to heal makes it worthwhile. You hang in there too and if you need anything...I'm right here!! Day 4 is almost over for me!! Smiles!!!

chow ma belle ( I think I like that better then imdonenomore lol)

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by Ducky444, Jan 22, 2011
Day 7 I think I feel pretty ok. Waiting for the other shoe to fall.  Never made it out of the house yesterday going to try that today. Dani170 yay day four! People are very brave to go through this, it's been tough. I knew it would be, kept me from moving through it literally years. I've been on the drug for many many years. I'm hopeful I can be close to the right side of this now even though it's been so long.  I had to ignore the references to comparing recovery time to length of use or else I would give up with 10+ years.

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by dani170, Jan 22, 2011
Congrats Ducky!! How does it feel?? I just can't wait to get a "natural" high in life rather then using pills! Hang in there and ya, get out of the house and celebrae DAY 7!!
GOOD FOR YOU DUCKY

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by dani170, Jan 22, 2011
I meant celebrate...oops

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by hawkfan684, Jan 22, 2011
Today is day 5.  I feel okay but didn't get any sleep last night.  My knees really hurt today but I think some of that has to do with the weather since its freezing outside and this is the first day my knees have been really hurting.  I did end up telling my boyfriend about my tram w/d the other night.  He wasn't happy but is being supportive.  I keep telling myself each day will get easier and easier but I just can't stand not sleeping.   I will say that the barely any sleep is making me hate trams even more which will be good for my soberity.  Today we are going to meet up with my boyfriends mom and do some shopping and go out to eat.  So hopefully that will wear me out enough to maybe get some sleep.  

I picked up some hylands last night and the first doses helped but when it wore off the second dose hasn't helped.  Plus they are the ones that you dissolve in your mouth, so not sure I bought the right ones or maybe it just isn't helping as much as I would like it haha.

I just can't wait for the night I can get at least 6 hours of sleep.  Hope it comes sooner than later.

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by Ducky444, Jan 22, 2011
Thanks Dani for the encouragement, back at ya! Hawkfan I must say you're a trooper, lunch and shopping is a big deal in my book! And I'm glad you told bf that'll help with sleep as well. May not be a good idea but I'm taking unisom about 3 at night- so far has knocked me out for about 6 hrs straight. I'm grateful I haven't had rls but rather had strange nerve stuff traveling from bottom of feet to spine-weird creepy but getting better every night. Good luck today to all warriors.

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by 444lynn, Jan 22, 2011
Hylands didn't seem to do much for me last night.  I will try it again tonight.  Got about two hours sleep between 5:00 am and 8:00.  At least it is Saturday.  I'm going to the gym tonight and try to exercise a little before bedtime.  Worth a try.  

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by NoraTorious, Jan 22, 2011
Hello-after a few days of reading, I decided it was high time to tell my story. I have been off Tramadol for 17 days now. I was taking copious amounts in the last year, and have been on this terrible drug for 3-5 after suffering a work injury to my left arm/shoulder/hand. I heard a lot about tramadol not being addictive, being less dangerous than vicodin, etc. WRONG!!

On Jan 6, I had enough. I had not been sleeping well, I was doing nothing with my life, my depression was to the point that I was an agoraphobic, I was not taking care of myself, etc. My (Wonderful, patient, sainted) husband took me to urgent care, and thus began my detox.

I was transferred to the ER then home. The first 4 days were HELL. I was writhing on the bed, pounding my head on the wall, wanting to cut off all my hair and rip off my face. This combined with my body giving me 'The Finger'-puking and pooping myself. Jan 8 I called 911, spent more time in the ER (I was very dehydrated). And from there, I went to a detox/mental health facility. Though I was not a risk, I remained in the 'locked' facility becsuse it was an absolute NO SMOKING facility and I am very sensitive to smoke, and I knew being around a lot of smokers would make me physically ill. I nothing against smokers, it is just me, and things are made worse by the DETOX.

I was let out about a week later, and I am trying to cope. I have learned so much from this site. I was so ashamed of what I did, and I knew I could never be weaned off. I was too clever and crafty, stocking up meds from other Drs, etc.

My beloved husband has destroyed all evidence of that demon tramadol being the house. My meds are doled out & kept

under lock & key. Life is hard, my husband was laid off some time ago, he is getting contract work (he is a software developer), and one of our cats is dying. I am fortunate to have such a supportive husband, family, and friends, but sometimes I feel so alone. This is not an easy task, and though my body weak, my mind is strong.

If I have not bored you all with my sorry-*** story, I implore you to help me, as I will help you as much as I am able.

Thank you.

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by Ducky444, Jan 22, 2011
Wow, 17 days is a long time don't quit before the miracle as they say in AA. Reading through these experiences 17 days is a much sought after place to be-can you reflect on how the heck you found the strength to get there and be proud of the accomplishment, yet? You certainly got a ways away from demon. I'm on day 7 and somewhat better but see a long way ahead. Stay the course, stay connected. I'm going to follow a fellow warriors plan and go buy some carrots to juice, finally!

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by rainallday, Jan 22, 2011
Day 20 and have a sinus/tension migraine again.....Used to get these randomly and hope they happen on days off....Not so lucky today, work 530-130am.......3 bufferin every 4 hours has barely dented it...I just tried some peppermint oil mixed with olive oil and it helped pretty good, because I had to focus on the unexpected BURNing lol..
Underestimated the strength of the peppermint..wow...just a dab on my temples and my eyes were burning...also got my vicks greaseless vaporub last night and i just put that on my back, it has a weaker cool burn that feels pretty good..
     I never miss work and cant afford to, so better or worse a nice cold long evening ahead....
Even with all this pain, (and this abscess which is throbbing) I barely if at all think about tramadol...I know its not an option so I just search headache cures online and take otc crap....
   btw i should know better, I often eat at night due to 2nd shift, and if I eat dairy, massive headaches can occur next day....and yet after juicing last night, i went ahead and had a Amy;s cheese enchiladas lol..so stupid at 4 am but yet i was craving some hearty real food.....Some day I'll learn......til then i'll have massive headaches and consider myself fairly retarded....Took me personally 19 days to regain my sense of humor, ao at least thats a good thing....I'm thankful to be able to work, thankful my car works, thankful for the people here in the war-recovery-room...I'll be 'extra' thankful when the headache subsides!~
    Good to see so many people here beating this monster together!!! Stay strong warriors! If an idiot like me with plenty of other problems can beat this thing, anyone can!!!!!

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by Ducky444, Jan 22, 2011
Darn rainallday you make me look lucky, joke, I'm not. How the heck do you do it? The tooth thing is dangerous though, I hope you get the thing out soon. Btw a dentist told me tramodol doesn't work on tooth pain anyway.

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by NoraTorious, Jan 22, 2011
Thanks so much, Ducky!! Someone on here  said that these DTs are not linear, and a friend was telling me it can cycle as well. Yes, I have come a long way, and I am so very close to my goal. And I agree, that even if I am not feeling as great one day or another, it is another 24 hours away from that poison.
  The thing that is bad today is that my feet are cold and I have to keep a heating pad on them.
  I set small goals for myself every day: wash some dishes, take a bath, fold clothes, put away clothes, etc. They may sound trivial and banal to some but they are huge things for me!
I am proud of you too, Ducky. Did you quit 'Cold Turkey' as well?

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by rainallday, Jan 22, 2011
Ducky444 you ARE lucky! Your day 7 right? congrats!!  and yeah i understand about the tooth danger, Thats why im taking the 12 amoxicillins i have for now, then planning on getting the probable extraction next week..
And noratorius ive had cold toes several times, i just try to ignore any symptoms i hhave....You should see my most nagging symptom niagra falls under the arms!!.Im having to take 10 hand towels to work to keep a towel under the arms at all times....i just keep sweating....no antipersperant has helped either...im soaked right now typing this...oh well its a reminder of the monster this drug is....i have towels....last time it took over 3 months to stop the sweating..so i knew it was coming...just glad its winter and long sleeves hide the towels heh...lucky me!!!!
   ah running late to work yall have a great evening

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by NoraTorious, Jan 22, 2011
Oh rain, Ugh!! I am a sweaty mess. At least I am at a point where I am actually able to take care of myself and bathe regularly. Which helps.



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by Ducky444, Jan 22, 2011
Thanks! you are all amazing to me. Zero energy. Bought some b12 liquid maybe that'll help some. Starting to stress out about Monday-work.

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by remarkablylucid, Jan 22, 2011
So yesterday I went to the auto show and for the first part of the day I was ok.  Then for no reason I started crying hysterically because some lame sappy pop song was playing.  Seems some of my anxiety is triggered by low blood sugar.  After lunch I wasn't crying anymore but still felt so depressed and alone in a building full of thousands of people!  Made for an awkward day out, my bf thought he had done something to trigger my depression.  The final straw was the parking garage elevator being out of order.  After being on my feet all day I had to walk up 9 flights of stairs to the car on the roof.  For whatever reason that sent me into a massive panic attack.  I felt like nothing could go right in my life, this was the last thing I needed.  My legs gave out twice, if my bf wasn't holding me up I would've gotten seriously hurt.  By the time I got to the car I was crying hysterically and couldn't breathe and 11 days worth of emotion and anxiety just came out.  I hadn't been able to cry this whole time, I guess that's from withdrawal, being emotionally numb.  The only thing I keep telling myself and hoping is that these mood swings and feelings of hopelessness, etc will go away with time.  I thought by now it'd be a bit better.  I'm starting to think maybe this wasn't such a good idea;  is there anyone who has seen any improvement of these mood swings over time?

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by solatesolate, Jan 22, 2011
HI ALL
what happen to my last post?  i had asked a ? about if it works why stop  as i said i have been on these for over ten yrs. and never had problem with them

maybe my metabolism is differ from u guys

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by ImDONENoMore, Jan 22, 2011
solatesolate, we did respond to your post - both madtram and I.  And we are concerned about you.  I'm not quite sure what you need here.  I remember you from back in December and at that time, you seemed very worried about what was happening to you.  What's changed?

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by solatesolate, Jan 22, 2011
has any of u guys have had tooth destruction?  i have lost most of my teeth but i do not know if this is from tram or something else

ideas?
from reading all these posts i am getting worried and so i will stop them and see what happens  i think i will cut my dose in half every other day

i will keep u'all informed

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by Sweetstang, Jan 22, 2011
ImDoneNoMore-

thanks for your encouragement. I hope so

Day 20-halfway to where I was 3 months ago til I relasped...hoping for better luck this time!

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by madtram, Jan 22, 2011
Solate, your proposed taper will be too extreme from such high dosages.  Your body will need time to adjust between dosage drops.  I would start by dropping a maximum of 2 x 50mgs a week.

Remarkably lucid, the mood swings will definitely improve but the process may be assisted by 5htp or St John's Wort; magnesium & extra sublingual b vitamins. If you have noticed a link to blood sugar, it's quite likely that 5htp may help as it can smooth out serotonin levels which tend to plummet when your blood sugar gets low.

To the Hylands takers, I don't have any personal experience but somewhere back in the early days of this journal, some people reported having to take many times the indicated dose of Hylands & keeping bottles on hand in the early days. Also note that it's the 'legs cramps with quinine' version that you need not the 'restful legs'.   Quinine used to be a prescribed medication for RLS at standard doses of 100mg so there is no way of achieving this with the Hylands which is a homeopathic formula & as such may work via other as yet unknown mechanisms.

You can apparently achieve a dose of c80mgs of quinine with around 34ozs of tonic water so if you can tolerate that much tonic there are quite a few success stories with these higher doses.  Don't takes the high doses without consulting your doctor if you have any sort of heart problems as quinine can cause adverse reactions in rare heart conditions.

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by ImDONENoMore, Jan 22, 2011
Thank you madtram - I am so grateful you are here.  Your information and knowledge has been a g-dsend to me.

And hang in there sweetstang - one day, minute, hour at a time (yeah, I know corny, but it's so so true!)  :)

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by DamTram, Jan 22, 2011
Hello, Survivors!

I've been lurking since Tuesday...my Day 1.  I'm really not sure what would've become of me if I had not found Emily's forum/journal.  You guys have given me so much advice, inspiration, strength, patience, and hope...all without you even knowing it!  

I've been taking the dammed Tram since August '10, so only about 6 months, for Fibromyalgia.  Like most of you, I was told it wouldn't be addictive (I was an opiate fan BEFORE this happened).  I started at 2x50 mg/d and by the next month, my prescription was upped to 6x50mg/d.  I'm an urban teacher (5th grade) and I was amazed at how much more energy I had for my students.  I thought my days of Chronic Fatigue were over!

Nope.

I was always running out of my script before the month was over, because there were 'bad' days when my pain was worse.  Meanwhile, my colleagues and administrators quickly shied away from the unpredictable me...either excited and fervent, or exhausted and stressed (or tearful).  I blamed the Lyrica I was taking.  I was not going to blame my precious Trams.  I thought they WERE the only thing keeping me going!  I had no idea it was them that was ruining my career, friendships, relationships, everything.

Puke.

While visiting a friend in another state over the Winter Break, I learned that she was ordering Tramadol and Soma online.   180 pills...poof!  FedEx'd!  Overnight!  'Great,' I thought.  'I'll never run out again!'.

Oh my goodness.

When my package arrived on the 23rd of December, I had already been through a day of withdrawal...what with having run out of pills.  Even my family was excited that they'd come, as me in withdrawal is not pleasant for them.  So, I started taking both Tramadol and Soma.

And I didn't stop.  

I have very little memory of the following 3 days.  It turns out that, as Emily mentioned, Soma ****s with your memory.  I never remembered having taken any of either, so kept thinking I was taking them for the first time.

And driving.

When I woke up on the 26th and realized that I'd blown through ~120 Tramadol and ~60 Soma while commuting back and forth from my parents house to my apartment...I lost my ****.  I should've been dead, and I could've killed others in the process.

Again, I blamed the Soma...not the Rat Poison.  

I went back to my 6x50mg/d and suffered through a couple of very sick days.  I couldn't figure out how I could go back to work like that, and began to file for a Medical Leave of Absence so that I could go into treatment for addiction.  But as I started to feel better, I couldn't imagine abandoning my students and decided to go back to work.  I mean...there are only 6 more weeks until our high stakes Standardized Testing.  

Again, I ordered more Tramadol online...as I was almost out.  But when I went to pick up my package at FedEx, there was ANOTHER package there for me...from the Psychiatrist that was going to help me get into treatment.  It told me that because I didn't end up going, that I would no longer be able to see any other counselors, therapists, or whatnot in my HMO offices.  I would be too big of a liability.  Unless, I went to treatment.

AARRGHGH.

I had been feeling pretty good (as good as one can on Rat Poison), and being extremely productive with work.  But some of my colleagues convinced me that I had to talk with my boss about it.  Since my principal avoids me at all costs, I handed her the letter and asked that she'd read it before our 40 minute meeting that afternoon.

BAM.  Excused with Pay.  Please collect your things and leave the building.  You are not to have any contact with staff or students until you've been redeclared Fit for Duty.

Rock bottom?  Is that you?  Sorry.  I just hit you!

This was a Friday afternoon.  After giving back the school laptop, iPad, room key, and having a colleague come and try to take the rugs and pillows in my room...I went home and decided that I MUST BE the crazy addict others seemed to believe I was.  So what did I do?  I acted like it!

And went through ~150 Trams in 4 days.  Yes, it was 4 days of painless delirium...BUT I SHOULD'VE BEEN DEAD!  Where was the seizure?  Coma?  Permanent brain damage?  

Thank the good heavens I've been giving a 3rd chance.  I woke up on Monday with ~12 pills left and decided that I was done.  I was not going to fill my next prescription, and I was never, ever, ever, going to order anything online again.  I took my last 3 pills Monday night.

And on Tuesday, around 1pm, the horror that is Tramadol Withdrawal set in.

I have just finished Day 5.  I will post a detailed description of my acute withdrawal experience later.  For now, I just wanted to share the things that helped me through the last 5 days.

Tramadol Withdrawal - The Undying

GATORADE.  Gatorade is your new best friend, from Day 1.  It was electrolytes, your other friends don't have electrolytes to share, and YOU NEED ELECTROLYTES!  Forced hydration has saved me from some of the headaches, photophobia, and sensitivity to sound experienced by others during this time.

Mineral Baths!!  I found a eucalyptus and peppermint mineral bath at the drug store and it has helped the muscle tension, RLS, and nasal congestion.  I obviously got this suggestion from Emily, Thomas, et al., but it need not be underestimated.

IF you live in the state of California...GO GET YOUR MEDICAL MARIJUANA LICENSE.  You certainly qualify, and there is nothing else like it to get through the cold/burning sweats, nausea, etc., etc., etc.  

Luna Bars or your favorite protein bar.  You will want to eat nothing those first two days, BUT YOU HAVE TO.  If you are going to win this war, your cells need power.  It might take you a whole day to get through one bar, but your body will be grateful.

Bananas.  The potassium will help immensely with muscle cramping, and they are sweet, easy to eat, and filling.  And you can through the peel at the wall when you're done, to get your anger at Tram out of your system.  Just kidding.

YouTube Music Videos.  I've never been big into YouTube, but when I read Emily's suggestion that you should have a mix ready on your iPod, I realized that I needed some music.  And when you can't concentrate very well (and of course you can't), it's nice to have something to watch and listen to.  Verrrry calming and relaxing.  

Clean Living Space.  I didn't have the energy to begin cleaning until Day 3, so it became my first exercise since withdrawal and it was a nice, easy way to get my blood pumping.  Once my apartment was cleaner, my spirits couldn't do anything but be lifted.

STAND AND WALK as much as possible!  This will help with the inevitable onset of Restless Leg Syndrome (RLS) and insomnia.  I'm standing at the counter while typing this.  

And....THE ARSENAL
If you're going to win this war, you'd better be packing.

Prescriptions:  Lyrica (blocks pain signals) and Effexor (to make up for the anti-depressant you are no longer getting from the Tramadol)  both at (75mgx2/d).  These eased withdrawal symptoms in Days 1 and 2.  I don't know what I would've done without them.

OTC:  Dramamine (but only for nausea, when you have it...as it increases RLS), and Ibuprofen (muscle pain).

Vitamins/Supplements:  Melatonin (3mg) for sleeping, Valerian Root (anxiety), Milk Thistle (oh, our poor livers!), B-Complex Vitamins (immunity, energy, etc), B-12 (for circulatory and nerve health), Vitamin D (more power for the immune system), and Adrenal Stress End (to try to get your adrenal glands working up to speed).

California Only:  Medical marijuana license.  Period.

Hopefully someone will glean something from this as I have from so many of those of you who fought the fight before I began.  

I will, never, ever, ever, ever, ever, EVER put one of those life-ruiners in my system EVER again.  I never, ever want to relieve the horror of Days 1 and 2 again.  

Oh yes, and this song you can sing in your head or to yourself, that I learned from a Naturopath.  Fake it 'til you make it, ya'll!

All the little cells in my body are happy,
All the little cells in my body are well.
I'm so glad that
All the little cells
All over my body
Are happy and well!

Hoping your cells are smiling,




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by dani170, Jan 22, 2011
Wow DamTram...you are a SURVIVOR!! Thanks for sharing that story!! You've been through alot and it tooks courage to say Goodbye to the trams! I surely hope that people will read your story and get the courage to quit!!! Thank you!

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by Thistime4real, Jan 23, 2011
Hello all.....

I have been reading these on and off for a while and decided to actually write on it.  I'll keep it brief for now cause I'll expand a lot more later and am just not up too it now at the moment.  Grew up an opiod fan, stopped with brief recr use joined the military. After 2 parachute malfunctions and many surgeries later I found my nightstand filled with vicodon and percocet. Plenty to go around no questions asked and well supplied. Maybe another topic for how easily it is to be prescribed these in the military......anyways love my country I rehabed and finish my tours honorably however the pills followed. I am 30 and have cold turkied a few times, horrible by the way, relapsed even tho I swore the pain would remind me to never do it again. Then tramadol came in, great a non narcotic....I actually didn't know it could give you a buzz at first till someone told me to take a few at once which i stupidly did and so on......successfully quit a 10-12 50mg/d habit through weaning only to relapse from taking a few for severe pain and was sucked back in. I hate this pill and them all actually. It does steal ur life, i agree it makes u sleep and then its like karma u stop and can't sleep. I know how wonderful it is day 6 of wd and u smell fresh air and smile like wow im going to be ok and i Also know the guilt and anxiety u feel as u swallow the few to start a relapse trying to fool itself.  Where I am now? I am down to 3 pills a day, almost done and super excited, i really need to develop tools for staying off because i am quite the king of stopping and starting.  Anyways I want to communicate, I think i need that this time because i will not do this again. I am currently thinking about becoming a very strong proponent of the restriction and regulations of these types of medicines after my successful recovery.  I know am rambling but im happy, my wife is supportive she has sle lupus so she understands the issues one can have with pills, although she is a great woman and so strong mentally, she wont take pain killers.  Anyways im off track....look ping forward to the next few days, i am going to do 3 2 1 then use meloxicam sparingly till the fifth day usually I can deal then.  You guys are doing great, one of the best feelings in the world for me was when i could sing along in the car that was always when i knew the worst was over and it's different for everyone it is indeed a great feeling so keep striving. More to follow thank u all for your posts it's nice to feel like im not facing this demon alone. And trust me i know exactly what your all talking about even the weird back tensions and flexing lol god i hate that usually makes my stomach tighten too like I'm doing sit-ups while not moving.  Well I'm here and have quit a lot so if i can help i will. I'm almost off and I'm so happy

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by Thistime4real, Jan 23, 2011
Btw, I am excited because I know may seem funny to some but i really want to use the tracker. Unfortunately i can't yet but in 3 days i can say 1 day without tramadol woo.  Hooooooo.  

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by wewar, Jan 23, 2011
Big surge of activity and purposefullness from lots of people since i started posting. Well done suberb.

I am using meditation and mindfullness to assist me. Also looking to follow the 12 steps which is a AA technique.

I try not to fight the sleeplessness and  watch movies on my laptop.

I have been using Binaural beats before trying to settle in the wee hours with good effect i think. There is lots of soothing music available but I think the base sounds have no mental attachment. I cant say if it works for sure but I fell asleep last night listening to a delta waves entrainment. The only drawback is having to wear ipod phones which are a bit  uncomfortable.

I take some Brufen and Paracetamol for aches and pains. GI disturbance is bothersome and unpredictable and have not been able to find a suitable remedy to advise on in my case. I dont want to take too much pharmacy for this. I might try ginger infusions in tea.

I try and do a bit of yoga twice a day as well. I am now 5 nights Tramadol free or is it 4....



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by hawkfan684, Jan 23, 2011
It is 6 am here and I have been up since 430 and really only slept a couple hours if that.  Yesterday was the first day I cried and have been pretty much crying since I have been up.  I say by far the no sleep thing is the WORST part of it.  I cant take benadryl because it does the opposite and makes me wide awake.  I have tried melatonin and that did nothing.  

Any other suggestions on what I can take or what can help.

Yesterday my boyfriend and I went out to eat and shopping with his mom for a few hours.  The walking around felt great!!!  Last night we watched a few movies and when i tried going to bed I really thought I would sleep good because I was SOOO tired.  I was wrong.

Well today is day 6 for me and just pray to God sleep comes soon.  This site and my bf has been whats keeping me sane.  I only have today and tomorrow off and then it's back to work for me on tuesday for an 8 day stretch in a row.  And if sleep doesn't come it's going to be a long 8 days.

I am proud that all of you have stayed strong.  It's been helping me A LOT.  



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by Ducky444, Jan 23, 2011
Day 8, yay, but nervous about real life starting tomorrow. Had some stomach issues suddenly last night, for the first time since starting wd.What the heck? That worries me about work tomorrow. I got through each day with tram. Reach in the purse before every move, meeting, appointment, report. I know I can do this now that I made to 8! I also know I got a 3 month refill in my kitchen cabinet. I won't take them, I plan to give them back to the doctor with my lecture about how set up I feel. They suggested the drug, reassured me it was ok and then started treating me like an addict (go figure) once they realized how often I need the refills. How do they sleep at night? I know I don't-well better and better actually. Thanks you guys for going through this with me, sharing your lives and stories.

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by Ducky444, Jan 23, 2011
Hawk fan yay day 6, I remember you on day 2-I wad at 4. We've both come a long way-feels like a month. I'm glad you have support at home and 2 days off. I'm traveling in and out of regrets and memories from a crazy life, so tears and fears come and go. I didn't realize how numb I had been for so long. Emotions are creeping back in good and bad. I'm glad your here.

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by hawkfan684, Jan 23, 2011
Thanks Ducky and congrats on day 8 that's awesome.  Yes 6 days feels like a long time ago.  During the day I usually feel okay mood wise.  Last night and this morning was the first time I really cried.  Last night it started from me realizing how stupid I was to do this to myself AGAIN when I knew what I would go through once I stopped. I was stupid enough to think trams weren't even close to what I was addicted to before and hadn't heard it being addictive.  Then I researched it and found out it was.  I told myself I wouldn't let myself get addicted this time, that I would control it.  Well I didn't.  And now I am paying for it especially with the no sleep.  I can handle the day time and keep a positive attitude which helps but when it's night time, I guess that's just when I am really scared.  I am scared that I won't ever get a good 7-8 hours again.  But I am still going to push forward and see what each new day brings.  Last night when thinking about my stupidness of doing this to myself twice that I could have killed myself and that I am glad to be alive.



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by Ducky444, Jan 23, 2011
I relate to the "Dark night of the soul" you go through when others sleep. Know you are not alone.

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by NoraTorious, Jan 23, 2011
Hawkfan, I am beginning to get fearful of bedtime too. I try to lay down during the day, my energy and strength are so low, and I know I ought to be exercising, I fear bringing up my heart rate or pulse any more than it is. I am lucky to have low blood pressure, but my heart is still pounding like crazy.

Last Christmas my husband bought me a mini biofeedback machine, and I am trying to use that, hoping if I improve my breathing, that might help my heart rate. I also need to invest in some vitamin supplements and use my Baththerapy again.

DamTram, you are so on the right track-keep up the good work! You are lucky to have paid leave. I was offered a Medical MJ license, but did not accept it. I am just really scared of replacing my addiction with another. And that is my own thing. I am taking effexor, and I do have some Lyrica, I should ask my Dr about the interactions, which (Finally) I am worried about. I was treating my body like a garbage can, taking these high doses of horrid drugs, and it is just now I am fearing ODing and dying on the lesser things I am taking.

I am on day 18, and looking forward to that 20 day milestone. I am in a lot of pain, not just my chronic pain, but other pains, one being my left heel/achillies tendon area. But the pain is a reminder that the poison is leaving my body, and I have clarity that I am alive, feeling things as they ought to be. I was so withdrawn and isolated in my head when on Tramadol. It really screwed with my head more than I ever thought it could.

So Monday, I need to make appts with my GP, my Psychiatrist, and a myriad of other Drs. I found a Pain Management Dr about 2 months ago who does not believe in painkillers, and does all he can to move his patient away from being dependent on drugs. Back then, I wanted that, but was scared, since I knew the high levels of Tramadol I was taking would be nightmarish to get off, and I would find ways to avoid being weaned off (I got crafty that way). In fact my first appointment was while I was in hospital. So last week I called, talked to the nurse, and told her why I did not show for my appointment, and that I went off the Tramapoison on my own, and that I would be making an appointment again.

I am going to find some valerian & melatonin to calm my nerves and let me have 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep. I am taking trazadone, but I am having the most profound, vivid and messed up dreams ever, and I wonder if that is contributing to it...


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by StephC28, Jan 23, 2011
Hi all! Wow, there is so much going on here…it’s awesome to see so many people in every different stage of getting off of this drug.

Today is day 22 for me – and I’m beginning to feel like it’s all downhill from here (ok, downhill as in it’s getting easier…uphill as in things are looking up! :). Slept 7.5 hours last night WITHOUT waking up once (stopped taking Tylenol PM Thursday…switched back to melatonin (3mg)). Stomach pain is mostly gone (copious amounts of mint tea!), though the evenings are still tough sometimes. I still get a little tired in the afternoon, but really, it’s so manageable. The emotional swings have definitely subsided (remarkablylucid – please hang in there! It really will get better. Accept that this isn’t you right now…it’s your body/mind in shock, trying to right itself. Time is your best friend. Just KNOW it will get better. Stay around people (and us online people!) who understand what you’re going through and who can support you).

DamTram – thanks for sharing your story and suggestions. I relate to your sense of humor (so key!), your anger at the “rat poison,” your writing style (what do you teach?) and the fact that you're a teacher...as am I (getting up in front of 30 college students on day 9...tough to say the least).  All of your suggestions (down to the luna bars!) are things I found to be useful (though I didn’t have access to any prescription anything except for 3 ambiens someone gave me that I used up the first couple nights). You are at the end of the worst – yes, Tram wd isn’t linear and there will be tough days ahead – but NOTHING like the first 5 days. Like you, I do not have another day 1-3 in me. No way. All of us who have lived through that time understand there is nothing quite like it. But the strength I’ve found in myself – well that’s something fantastic that’s come out of this mess. Stay with us as you go through your process…stay positive and know you’re getting your life back one moment at a time.

Those worried about work on Monday: I can totally relate as I had to go back to work at day 9 (but had a really important all day Saturday meeting at day 7). I remember wondering how I was going to make it through – how would I be at all functional? 2 things: one, I did it. And survived just fine. The tapes in my mind were “I’m not good enough/smart enough to handle my work without tram” but I just listened to that tape come up and laughed. It isn’t true. I was actually much more with it without tram, even at day 7. Two: say you’re just not feeling well. No one really (really) cares if you’re “sick.” I mean, everyone gets sick at some point. Just say you’ve been sick – you’re on the mend – you’re not contagious – and people pretty much accept that answer and go on about their business. At their core, people are pretty self-centered. No one is really going to care what’s going on with you (I don’t mean to me cynical…but…it’s kinda true no?) Keep a low profile and you’ll be all set. Oh, and carry Imodium AD, emergen-c, green tea, and B-12 sublingual tabs with you.

Thistime4real – you sounds so strong and determined! Stay with us during your process. I tried to quit CT once before (when I didn’t think I had a problem…ha) and began taking them again 5 months later because, hey, I didn’t have a problem. The support here gives me confidence that I’m stopping this crap for real this time.

Madtram: questions for you (or anyone else who knows) – does Tramadol affect your eyesight? After holding steady at a contact prescription for 7 years, last year my eyesight decreased by a significant amount. At the time I blamed it on grad school and a job where I looked at a computer all day…now, I’m wondering if Tramadol didn’t have something to do with it?

Stay strong all!

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by DamTram, Jan 23, 2011
Good morning, All!

Day 6 for me.  At 9pm last night, I read in the comments somewhere that you could get Hyland's Restful Legs at Walgreens and raaaaaaan (ok, drove) to the store.  Luckily, I also bought Hyland's Leg Cramps PM, which I saw later that MadTram said was the proper one to buy.  I stayed awake as looong as I could (still standing up and walking around), and I finally was able to sleep 6 hours and NO RESTLESS LEGS!  People.  There's hope.  I took only, in addition, Tylenol PM and Melatonin (3mg).  

I feel like a normal person!  And it's only Day 6!  But a normal person would not have only left the house 3 times in the last 9 days, so here's hoping I can start to feel normal OUTSIDE of my apartment.

I've been starving all day, for the last 3 days.  It's a different feeling than what, for my entire life, I knew as 'hunger'.  It feels like what I've felt at any times in my life when I DID feel like I was starving!  I will eat to fullness (sometimes forced) and then...2 hours later...STARVING.  With more tummy gurgles.  Have any of you experienced this??

Steph - Thank you for your kind words!  I'm an elementary school teacher of 26 beautiful and brilliant 5th graders in a school that was, in 2009, the worst performing in our city and 3rd worst in the state.  I haven't been able to fully enjoy the effects of the changed school environment this year, because of tram-a-poop.  And to answer your eye question...I (very ironically) did psychopharmaceutical research on opioid analgesics (in poor, beautiful rats that, by the way, DID NOT LIKE OPIOIDS...I like to think of this whole experience as karma for my work with the ratsies.  You see why I became a teacher..), and in all of the background publications...I never came across evidence of eyesight having been affected.   Check out the sleep aid...?

Nora - Thank you for your kind words, as well!  It feels so good to have all you guys to talk to about this.  No one else has ever understood.  About the MJ -- it's amazing because there is no physical dependance.  That has been proven.  You don't get sick if you stop using it.  You don't build up tolerance.  It's a plant!  Here is what it did for me in those first 3 days:
1) Killed nausea
2) Eased physical pain
3) Allowed me to sleep
4) Distracted me from the hot/cold sweats
5) Distracted me from telling myself I was dying
6) Increased my ability to ingest food
7) Increased my ability and desire to pump liquids

I had actually tapered off of Lyrica a couple of weeks ago, once I saw that one of the side effects was 'tearfulness' and blamed THAT drug for my mental state.  I took half the dose I had been on to see if it would help with w/d symptoms...and it totally did!  I was put on Effexor 2 months into tramadol...because I was...losing it!  I'm thankful that I was, because that also helped, almost immediately, with w/d symptoms.  As soon as I'm a couple months out of the Tram hole, I will see if I can begin an Effexor taper (NEVER EVER EVER COLD TURKEY WITH SSRI'S OR SSNRI'S, BTW!  Brain zaps 24/7 that will keep you bed-ridden).

Dani - Thank you for your message.  I was a little scared to post, being terrified that I might be judged and deemed as disgusting as I believe my own actions were.  So...thank you.  KEEP IT UP, LADY!!!!!

Smiling cells all around!

-DT


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by dani170, Jan 23, 2011
Hi Hawkfan and Ducky4444

I complety know where you're both coming from...
Insomnia is the last thing to go and it just seems like the worst hey? Have as many meltdowns as you need! Don't force yourself to try and sleep cause that's when the heartrate goes up.
I had a meltdown last night and today all I can say is "WE ARE TRAM FREE". We will get sleep sooner of later! Our bodies are up saying "GIVE ME TRAM PLEASE" and our bodies are not ready to accept being tram free but our minds sure are!!!
Our minds won over our bodies request for tram and it's wanting more and more... I just say "shut up body, you're not getting anymore no matter how long you keep me up!!!!"

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by Thistime4real, Jan 23, 2011
Just taking 2 today..... Effects aren't as bad as cold turkey, man I hated that.  Feel sort of normal although I cringe that I'm taking them. Very faint hot flashes and chills and the start of sleeplessness is setting not sure how bad it will be, I just continue to read ur posts keeps my mind off it.

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by NoraTorious, Jan 23, 2011
Steph and Damtram, must be reading my mind or something, because you are saying the things I need to know and hear. STEPH-I give props to you for letting me know that this recovery is not linear. And DAM, I have done some research on the MMJ, there are tons of dispensaries  in my Neighborhood (I live in a pretty liberal part of So Cal). I am just trying to weigh my options. I have trouble smoking, I am sensitive to smoke and inhaling smoke, so I would have to go with a tincture. Even though it is a plant, so is opium, and...well, I just want handle one disaster at a time. I am just scared now because I realize the true nature of the danger I was putting myself into.  The shamlessly lethal amounts of that Tramapoison I was putting in my body!

I take effexor too, and I think that had been what is keeping me from doing real damage. I can see things and reason them out more constructively. I am careful to take it everyday at the same time, and I would NEVER quit that Cold Turkey, I once was taken off of it suddenly and it was pretty much a small scale experience of the Tramadol withdrawals.

Watching you tube videos of my favorite bands, old and new, has helped me, plus just listening to music. Also my very wry, dry, sense of humor.  Also, feline therapy. My cats have been very helpful in reminding about living in the now, and the warm furry purring of a cat is quite good at relieving my anxiety, which seems to be more in my body than in my brain.

The sad thing is, watching our eldest kitty deteriorate. The vet says it is 'Quality of Life' so we just try to keep her as comfy as possibly. I feel bad I am not as involved with her right now as my husband, but it is SOOOO hard to watch. I try to give her as much attention and love as I can, but I think she senses that I am going through something difficult as well. I know I probably sound like crazy cat lady, but it always seems like they know.

2 more days until my 20 day goal.

Has anyone tried any of the lozenges made by Historical Remedies? Moon Drops, Calm Drops, etc? I see them at Henry's (local natural food store) and I think I might give those a try. I just wonder if my body is just completely immune to any sort of homeopathic supplement, as I feel like I have ruined my system so badly it can never 'reboot' itself.

Steph--having you are 4 days ahead of me, so I consider you my 'Spirit of recovery future tense', and though I feel the worst of it is over I wish my body would just chill the frak out, so I can relax.

"Let it go---this too shall pass" -Ok Go




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by NoraTorious, Jan 23, 2011
DANI, I forgot to thank you as well- your words are a gift. My mind knows that my toxic romance with the demon Tramadol is over but my body just won't have any of it. I feel like my Brain is telling my body, 'Don't make me come down there...' but my body is doing some annoying 'I'm not touching you' kind of thing, like my brothers would do to me after my parents would scold them; 'Boys stop touching your sister!'

I know that sounds creepier than it is.


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by Ducky444, Jan 23, 2011
Stephc28 work advice much appreciated! Bunch of smart people here. Why is it the sensitive smart compassionate ones think they're less than they are and end up relying on some crap to "make them valid"? At my age I should know better but honestly from the start back in the 60's as a teen I used anything to alter and or enhance my less than self. Sad. Thought quiting alcohol was tough, it was but nothing like this devil. Quitting smoking was tough- really went a little crazy during that. I'll put together my "work kit", b12, tea, vitC,  to make through tomorrow.  Angers me that doctors knew about the antidepressant component to tram that I never knew of until reading this site. A powerful antidepressant at that. Thanks to you all!

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by Thistime4real, Jan 23, 2011
Steph it will mess with your eyesight. After taking it my vision would be blurry/fuzzy at distance and more I took the closer things were that were out of focus, after several army eye tests, nothing was found but after I stopped taking it a few days maybe a week or so the major fizziness would leave I don't know if what is left is from them or how it affects everyone differently but it will affect ur sight

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by Thistime4real, Jan 23, 2011
It is so crazy how such a small pill can completely consume people from all walks of life.  It is such an epidemic and growing. I think now when i go out and I see someone looking sad inside behind their eyes if they struggle with tramadol addiction, from the business suit to the grandmother to the college student. Disgusting that people have to experience this. I have my 2 that I'm supposed to take today but i wanna throw them in the street and run them over, i hate this feeling and I hate that they smile and give it to me at the hospital, they should feel the affects of a non addicting non narcotic drug and maybe realize that they can do something better, much better. Maybe i am extreme but I do not see at all in any pain tolerance where this pill is advantageous. Sorry just venting because I unfortunately kinda made the choice to turn it into something to get high on at one point through the pain, but this pill should never be an option. I tell them i don't want to take percocet I'm to young to be acting like i did on it, so they give me the miracle of tramadol. My life has been a jail sentence ever since inside my own head slave to a stupid pill. Justifying why i have to take a handful here and there.  This is it I'm so over this.  I would rather have an epideral through the neck than this again.  I don't feel horrible physically I'm just mad that I haven't been myself for so long.

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by NoraTorious, Jan 23, 2011
Thistime, I have to see my eye Doctor to get my glasses/contacts refilled and I can say that my vision has changed, just in how long my eyes take to focus. And my glasses give me terrific headaches to boot. So I am curios what Dr eye doc has to say...

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by Ducky444, Jan 23, 2011
An eye dr told me the pressure in my eyes was high-I pretty sure it was tram induced.

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by NoraTorious, Jan 23, 2011
Ya know Ducky, with how different I feel without the Tramapoison vs with it, I think it caused many more problems vs helping me. I just did not see it-(pardon the pun/irony) ;-)

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by rainallday, Jan 23, 2011
For those that love cats like I do, I thought I list the approximately 16 strays that I feed daily (some have moved mostly inside)
Aside from my own 20 yr old blind, deaf cat Lllammi, we have:

Gray cat, devil cat, bumper, guard girl, cow cat, crazy gray, little blackie, Miracle cat, he/she cat, shy shy, dopelganger, kitten cat, black and orange, momma cat, blue stripe, f-3 cat, and missing presumed gone- (Wolfe cat, pumpkin, and skinny)

Each has their own story and they are all unique.

People think I'm nuts, and I agree, I live on about 300-400 a week and I'd say 1/5 goes to stray animals.. So yeah, I'm nuts..what can I say, karma yoga at work! .I also feed about 5 raccoons, 3 or so possums, and about 20 birds and 10 squirrels....I love animals and have been vegetarian since about 1981....

Day 21 taking no sleep aids, no prescriptions (cept amoxicillion for the tooth), just down to bufferins and sudafed...
supplements vitamin c, b-12 sublingual, solgar 'omnium' multi-vitamin (gift to myself for quitting-too expensive normally)
solgar calcium-magnesium-zinc, jarrow-dophilus eps (never had the runs thanks to this acidophilus),

Mostly symptom free except for some fatigue, insomnia, and niagra falls armpits....

Here to say much much better days await yall, so stay strong and you'll feel great soon....

Just got my w-2's and was surprised to see I'll be getting a refund (about 300) so yay!! things are looking up!


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by NoraTorious, Jan 23, 2011
MORE KITTY FOOD!!! (at least that's what our cats would be saying about  any extra cash in this house).

Ehhh, who am I fooling? I AM a crazy cat lady and my husband is the crazy cat geek. And we love it!



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by Ducky444, Jan 23, 2011
Yay now get rid of the tooth!!! Kindred spirits. We feed strays too- crazy-really have two outdoor feral cats we love them and worry over their whereabouts and health.  Little gray guy let's me get a little close, only to feed him.  We think the gray & white guy is a brother.  I even bought a "cat house" for the winter but the only one who will use it is a oppossum. We have an indoor "rag doll" a gentle giant rescue. Bless you for your care for animals and people.

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by NoraTorious, Jan 23, 2011
I am happy to be in such good company  :-)  !!!

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by MyFreedom, Jan 23, 2011
Good afternoon all

Oh my....What a busy place it's become here over the past couple of days!

On one hand it is unfortunate that so many have found their way here, but on the other, it is great that so many are on the road to being free.

Unless you are a pet person, feel free to skip this:

On the subject of pets, I've really had a rough ride with mine in the past 10 months. It hasn't been easy for us pet-wise ever since I stopped tram. Until last March, we'd been very lucky with having healthy pets with no issues (4 cats, 2 ferrets). In March, we came home one evening to find that our 16 year old cat had died... it was very difficult on us...mostly me, I think. We don't know how or why he passed. I have so much guilt over his death. I had noticed him beginning to look like he was losing some weight a couple of weeks prior, but there was no real behavior changes. So, I attributed it to his age. At that time I was only 6 days away from finishing my taper and I just told myself that I would take him to the vet soon. Wow....what a feeling of guilt that I will forever carry.

Everything was okay for a while, but in September one of our ferrets became ill. Still carrying the heavy guilt from the cat, I didn't hesitate this time. I took her straight to the vet only to find out that she had a massive tumor in her belly that was inoperable (not that I would've put her little 1.5 pound body through surgery and chemo anyhow) so I had to make the decision to have her put to sleep. That was one of the hardest things I've ever done. Within a week after her death the other ferret started having problems. It's very common for the surviving ferret to decline very quickly if a long-time cagemate passes away. I couldn't bear to lose another pet. After a month of continuously taking him back and forth to the vet, we finally got him under control. Although his days are certainly numbered, he is happy and his condition is well controlled with a twice-daily med and he now has 2 new ferret friends in the family (who are quite a handful). At some point (probably another year if we are lucky) the med will no longer work and I will have to do the inevitable of having him put to sleep as well. So hard to even think about.

After that whole ordeal, we had to re-home a cat that we'd had for 11 years. He couldn't take the stress of losing his best friend (the 16 year old cat) and reeeeally didn't like the new ferrets in the house. He became rather aggressive with them and the other 2 cats as well as some other behavior that we couldn't handle on our own. Luckily, we were able to find him a wonderful home where he is the only kitty....which is what he has needed his whole life. We heard recently that he is very happy and doing very well.

So now we are down to the 3 ferrets and 2 cats. The cats are both girls....a 15 year old siamese and a 10 year old maine coon. They don't really care for each other....never have. They have a tolerant indifference of one another, but the siamese is definitely the queen bee of the pets in the house. We thought we'd gotten through all our pet issues, but the maine coon had a minor health issue pop up in December with her ear. It was easy, but expensive to fix. So we are hoping and praying that we finally have everything under control now!

It's been really frustrating at times. I am very proud of myself for ending my 7+ year tram-ride, but at the same time I certainly could've done without the emotional roller coaster that came along with stopping tram combined with the death of 2 pets, the near-death of another and re-homing another.

Well, what doesn't kill us only makes us stronger, right?

Love and strength to all
:)

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by ImDONENoMore, Jan 23, 2011
I just have to say that I feel honored to be a part of this group.  I too am a HUGE animal lover and I am so grateful that all of you are taking such good care of your furry friends.  I would be lost without my little girl (Shelby, dachshund) so I understand everything you are all saying.

G-d bless all of you.  :)

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by ImDONENoMore, Jan 23, 2011
Oh yeah, and by the way - I HIT MY 6 MONTH MARK TODAY!!!  And just for a little encouragement to our newbies here, I have NO desire to take tramadol.  At all.  Ever again.  So hang in there because it will pass!

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by solatesolate, Jan 23, 2011
damtram

hi it sounds like u told everyone about ur tramadol intake    saying that ur colleagues knew about ur addiction did tell ur boss i am in a high level job and nooo way would i tell someone what was going on  from the start    and ur boss had a beef with u    ur did know if u informed colleagues  it would get back to her?

i am on 15 a day for the 3 day trail and have no problem so far   although i sweat alot
normal?

as i have posted in the past i have ct this drug a couple of times   do u guys think i could cut in half tomorrow  thanks

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by Thistime4real, Jan 23, 2011
Congrats imdone, that is a great amount of recovery time I'm so jealous lol...... I have a puppy dog a rescue, just thought I would toss my pet in the mix.  So I only took 2 today and put together an elliptical bike lol I'm clammy sweaty and feel like jack blacks character from tropic thunder. Bad. Anyways....

Solate, I have been reading your post for a while, if your on 15 then u have cut a lot which is good but I'm not sure of your culture but you really need to get at the least professional help making sure you are trimming dosages properly if that's the route u wanna go. It is ok to tell someone, what good is a job when ur brain is fried liver shot and can't go ten minutes without shoving a handful of poison in ur mouth to feel like crap again, what kind of life is that right?  Sweating is normal for wd. Usually u end up shivering sweating and clammy for a bit usually 4 to 5 days in my personal exp. But if your still on that many your symptoms will be drawn out longer but less severe than stopping all together if u have that willpower. Keep reading and talking here it seems your making positive improvement.

Everyone else I am happy to see u all in touch with each other it's good, I know i need it cause I am def getting tools this time to stay off that crap.

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by 444lynn, Jan 23, 2011
Four days without Tramadol.  Last night I slept five hours without waking...that was nice.  Woke up at 4:39 am and never got back to sleep but still quite and improvement.  Yeha

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by Thistime4real, Jan 23, 2011
Nice Lynn, I love being able to get any sleep at those times and at day 4 Woot ur worst is def over!!!! Keep going

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by NoraTorious, Jan 23, 2011
Well done  Thistime!!! It is definitely an inspiration! And Lynn, I think the first four days were my worst, by the 5th day I was doing better. But on my 3rd day I had checked into hospital because I knew I could not do this on my own, and my poor dear husband needed some sleep.

Thank you for all you pet stories, it's nice to know there are people who treat their pets like part of their family and not as accessories. People often look at me crazy when I tell them I never had a desire to have children, just animals. I felt that was my calling. My husband feels the same, and I am grateful to him because he has two sick girls to look after, me and our little kitty, Colette, whom we call 'The Kitten' as she never got very big. I will go into her story at a later date. Right now, it is just too hard. Please think good thoughts for her. I just want her to be comfortable and her transition to the next place to be painless, or as painless as we can make it for her.

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by madtram, Jan 23, 2011
MyFreedom, so sorry to hear about the losses of your furry family members.   We have 2 16 year old devon rex who are loved to bits & their passing will be a major life event.  They provided the best comfort during the worst of the withdrawal & it would have been so much harder dealing with such a loss at that time.

Imdone, huge congratulations on 6 months, you will continue to see improvements over the next 6.

For those taking effexor, I am very interested in your experiences of how much the effexor is helping with your withdrawals.  The antidepressant part of tram is chemically identical to effexor so theoretically you are now enduring a reduced dose of antidepressant together with withdrawal from the opioid component.  I wonder if slightly increasing the effexor dose to compensate would help at all.

Steph28 you are doing great.  I don't know about tram & eyesight deterioration but I do believe that taking the poison for so many years slowed down my hormonal system including sex hormones & thyroid.  This could contribute to some degree of premature aging but of course it's impossible to say what would have happened without the tram.
There are some good eye exercises which can significantly improve eyesight if done regularly & too much pc time is bound to cause extra strain.

Blueberries & bilberries are very good nutrients to support eye health & are one of the strongest antioxidants in general.  I try to make up for the tram years by giving my body the best nutrition I can afford.   There is no doubt that our brains are plastic, (we can grow new neurocircuits) & given time we can all be better than ever before.

10% of the brain is comprised of DHA, the long chain fatty acid featured in fish oil, so make sure you supplement if you are not a big fish eater.

Battle on warriors.

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by Thistime4real, Jan 23, 2011
Quick question, I thought I heard meloxicam is ok to take?  I mean I don't want anything remotely close to this scamadol. I don't plan to stay on it but I took one and it really helped my wd, any thoughts?

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by NoraTorious, Jan 23, 2011
It is an NSAID, and it seems to be okay, longer acting than others like Motrin. And if I read right it has less side effects than Motrin or Naproxen. Not addicting, so it seems. And it should help with the aches & pains you might have with the DTs.

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by Thistime4real, Jan 23, 2011
Great in that case if anyone has them around this really helped with the chills and flashes also took some of the ache away and I only took one, I was very surprised so if this helps anyone else awesome! Thanks Nora!

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by DamTram, Jan 24, 2011
Noratorious - Nevermind...there is a better solution!  GABA supplements!  

You guys...yesterday was Day 6 and last night I slept for TEN HOURS!!  I have not slept for ten hours without getting up since I was a CHILD!  I was very sleep deprived, and was very active yesterday...but still.  Go to your nearest health foods store and get yourself some.  Blessed be!

Yesterday was Day 6 and somehow I managed to go out for lunch with my mother, go shopping for a new coat (my zipper broke off in the negative degree weather), and get a chair massage at Whole Foods.  I told the masseuse about my restless legs and she did magic in 20 minutes.  I was wiped when it was all over, and went to bed around 9pm.  And didn't get up until 7!

I feel alert, but a little sleepy...if that makes any sense.  And starving and dying of thirst.  Today is DAY 7.

I was only on Trama**** for 5-6 months, so I think this is major evidence that THE LONGER YOU ARE TOO SCARED TO GET OFF, THE WORSE YOUR WITHDRAWAL WILL BE!  So, if you are new to these posts and are thinking about it...GET OFF!

Solate -- Because I'd pushed all of my friends, I mean TRAM pushed away all of my friends, in the last 6 months...I had no one to go to advice besides my mother and colleagues.  So I chose to talk to some of my colleagues.  They were colleagues that I trusted NOT to tell the Boss.  I'm protected by a union, though, and I never got specific with the Boss.  All she knows is that one of my medications was making me sick and crazy.  AND IT'S 100% TRUE.  We'll see if I can get myself back to work.  Really, though, PLEASE seek medical attention...it is NOT worth you having a seizure not to go.  

MadTram - Before withdrawal, I was taking 2 Effexor at night.  During the first day of withdrawal, I took 2 way earlier than night and it, along with the Lyrica, immediately eased my symptoms.  Now I take 1 in the am and 1 at night so that ease of symptoms is spread throughout the day.

Fight on, good pet-loving friends!  My two 9-month-old kittens have been fantastic nurses, as well.  And for insomnia, anxiety, or depression symptoms...go buy a GABA supplement!  While you are sleeping, it's telling Trama*** to shut the **** up!

<3,
DT



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by rt35630, Jan 24, 2011
I just wanted to let you all know I was still around. I finally talked my partner into holding the pill bottle. He has me on 6 pills a day (from my 15-18 at the start of this process) and I find it very easy to take them from him, where with my own bottle I was always tempted to take just a couple more. Right now I am okay. I get a little antsy in between doses, and I am getting up at night for two hours at a time. I read novels. It's okay. I did not go to an N/A meeting for about a week, and went a couple of nights ago. I realized how just sitting and listening gave me incentive to stay on task. Anyway. I'm fine. Not negative or depressed, just a little blah. I am noticing some random arthritis type stiffness in my fingers and joints. Nothing at this point is really bad. Keep on keeping on all....Randy

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by Sweetstang, Jan 24, 2011
MyFreedom-

I am so sorry about your loss of your furry babies. I absolutely dread when that day comes, but hopefully not for a while yet.  Hang in there.

Rainallday-

We have strays too, well they stay outside because we have 2 cats and a dog that would not mix, plus not sure what the outside kitties all carry. But we have a small colony here that me and another neighbor take care of feeding and shelter! Trying to TNR all of them so they stop multiplying though. We got some so far, maybe try again in the Spring.

Well Day 22...going ok so far, and well the Packers Win yesterday sure upped my mood! Yay!

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by dani170, Jan 24, 2011
Hi 444lynn. I'm on day 6 and it does get better even just in 2 days!! I just think Wow, we're actually tired in a so called "normal state." Whenever I felt tired before, I'd pop a few Trams and be wide awake. Now I actually enjoy being tired, if that makes any sense.

Congrats on the 6 months ImdoneNoMore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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by NoraTorious, Jan 24, 2011
DamTram-

I am going to look into the GABA supplements.

My lovely husband did pick up some melatonin w/B6 for me yesterday. Wow...WOW!!! I though my body would not respond to it at ALL, but after about 45 minutes I could feel my body relax. It has been a LONG time since it has done that. I slept soundly about 6 hours, which is an improvement. And my dreams were vivid, but good. I am shocked it actually worked.

Day 19-24 hours I will be 20 days off. I am glad I got away from that poison. I wish I did it long ago, but, I did it. And I have had the fear of the maker in me never to do it again.

I also ordered some supplements from a site (Before the GABA talk) -Moon Drops, Arnica Drops, and Calm Drops. It was not too dear, considering all the money I dumped into the poison. So we shall see...

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by hawkfan684, Jan 24, 2011
Congrats to all of you Im so proud!!!!

Damtram I too am on day 7, and I too got over 10 hours of sleep.   It felt amazing compared to just the few hours a night.  I had to force myself to get up so I can also sleep tonight lol.  It's a good feeling!!!

I am also am a pet lover.  I have two dogs, and they are like my children.  I love my babies lol.  

Dani I am just one day a head of you so I can tell you yes each day gets so much better, even just in one day.

My bf took the day off with me so were are going to try to power clean the apt today.  Have tons of laundry to do also.  So hoping this will all where me out so I can sleep well again tonight.  

Stay Strong Everyone.
Thistime4real welcome and congrats.  I too in the army......HOOAH

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by Thistime4real, Jan 24, 2011
Really lol thats cool hawkfan ur from michigan too right? Ya I am originally from auburn hills then moved to canton, was stationed in Fort bragg now i am in Long beach lol better weather hear anyways! Good ol army lol.   Anyways, OFFICIALLY OFF TRAMADOL as of 0900 this morning.....  I am 4 hours free lol but still its a start right?  Ugh.  Meloxicam is really helping with the symptoms and some supplements.  I get to start my tracker lol wooohoooo but this time its 4 real~!

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by remarkablylucid, Jan 24, 2011
Who else is from michigan here? I'm currently in Lansing but originally from New York.  Day 13 is pretty damn good, found out I didn't fail all my exams last term like I thought I did since I took them when I was out of ultracet.  Yesterday went to the gym and studied for a solid 8 hrs.  Seems small victories like these are the name of the game now.

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by Thistime4real, Jan 24, 2011
Nice Lucid!!!! I am so jealous i wanna be on day 13 toooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am on only hours but it will work, Ya i been up to east lansing a few times! Still a Blue fan tho!

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by NoraTorious, Jan 24, 2011
LUCID-I find, setting little goals for myself is all I can do. Take a bath, wash dishes, fold clothes, put away clothes, etc. They are not big but in some ways much more productive than my Tramapoison days. My sinuses are acting up today, and someone is working with a drill outside, which feels like it is going into my eyeballs! Maybe this is the time for a nice relaxing Eucalyptus bath.

Stay strong people!! So glad you are all here!!

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by dani170, Jan 24, 2011
Thistime4 real...

We're cheering for you!!! It gets easier!!

GOOD LUCK and keep posting!

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by Murphy2, Jan 24, 2011
Hello everyone, Been following all your posts. You are all such brave warriors. I have been on Tramadol for 2 hrs. About 6 months ago, it started running my life. I have Ben struggling to get off it ever since, but I find it so hard to let go of them. They have become my best friend. Pretty sad,huh?
I am taking 4/day and beginning to wean. How fast should I go down? Thanks for this site, it is a bif help

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by Murphy2, Jan 24, 2011
I meant 2 years not hours lol

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by NoraTorious, Jan 24, 2011
Murphy, stay strong!l I am here to tell you it is SOOO worth it to get your life back! This drug ruled my life and I was a slave. So many of my issues that I thought were hormonal and depression, were just the Tramadol making it worse.

I wish you the best of luck, and if you need support, we are all here, so post it!!

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by Thistime4real, Jan 24, 2011
Woot good job Murphy for posting u can have ur life back! U have given enough time to scamadol. Now it's time to be you! I weaned as well and I just reduced 1 pill every three days,  the. Faster its out the sooner ur life starts so do it safely but don't think a few extra are ok! They will scream at you but just post and read whenn u want too and let it go. I'm telling u life is beautiful poison free!  U can do it we are here! I am 6 hours into my new life and even through the wd  I see the bigger picture!  Thanks Dani for the encouragement btw!

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by Thistime4real, Jan 24, 2011
U know something that might help some is to tell ur doctor.  U don't news them so its ok if that means he wont give em to you anymore. Make sure u are honest about it. I would make up reasons to not tell my Dr cause I knew that would mean no more.  Thank Gd I'm done. No more hiding it cause II wanna make sure scamadol is seen for what it is

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by Thistime4real, Jan 24, 2011
News = need.       lol phone typing with fingers

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by ImDONENoMore, Jan 24, 2011
Hi everyone,

I AM SO DARN HAPPY FOR ALL OF YOU!  You're finally getting free from this horrible poison and I'm excited for all of you as you continue this journey.  You are not going to believe how much better it's going to get the further out you are.  I'm still amazed to this day how different my life has become, and my head, since I stopped taking this garbage.  I am a completely different person.  I think clearly, I make rational decisions and no more impulse buying (what a weird side effect of this drug - what was I thinking when I bought all of that crap??).  It is such a relief that I found this place and realized what I was doing to myself.  And now you all have arrived and it makes me feel so great that you're on your way to a better life.  SO GREAT!

Hope we all have a quiet evening and a restful sleep.  I haven't slept this good in 10 years (I thought I slept a lot on the tramademon but it was never REAL sleep, so fake) and NoraTorious - I agree - the melatonin is amazing.  I had no idea that a natural remedy could work like that.  It surprised the he** out of me too.  Yay for you and your sleep!

:)  p.s. i'm now off to play with my little dog Shelby....aren't they the best for support through this?

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by StephC28, Jan 24, 2011
Hi all! Not much time to write today…fell a little behind with work and need to spend some time planning classes…but I just wanted to check in and see how everyone is doing today.

Thanks to all who posted re: eyesight. I was just curious…it is what it is, so I suppose it doesn’t really matter if it was tram related or just part of getting older. I had read (on here actually) that it did...but hadn't seen "evidence" elsewhere. I think there is SO much they don't know about long-term use of this drug.

I agree on the GABA suggestion (though helping sleep? Never thought it did that…)

rt35630 – glad to see your post! That’s great! 6 is so much better than 15! You’re doing awesomely. :) I’m so impressed with those who can taper…it’s a psychological feat of major proportions!

NoraTorious – you’re doing so well! I went out Sat night to a movie and dinner with my bf. I had done the same thing the weekend before, and I can’t tell you how much better I felt this time! That’s just one week later! It keeps getting better. There are, as I said, some tough moments. For me it’s mostly my stomach. I’ll have a few days where everything feels fine, and then I’ll have a tough night. But, as I said, it’s all so manageable.

DamTram – you sound FANTASTIC for day 7!! I’m so impressed!!

Sweetstang – big congrats on your win! :)

Murphy2 – welcome! Look through some of the older posts for advice from people who have done successful tapers. Many people say cut .25mg every 5-7 days…others say .5mg, and still others want to go faster to get it over with. Obviously the slower you do it, the less the WD symptoms you'll encounter as you give your body time to adjust to the smaller amounts. However, sometimes it’s nice to just yank the band aid off…it’s such a personal decision. I can promise we’ll all be here every step you take! Take a look at the many lists of supplements, vitamins, etc to help you…there really are things out there to make this more manageable than you think.

Okay, gotta go.  So proud to be a member of this group…there are so many strong fighters here!


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by Ducky444, Jan 24, 2011
Hey everyone i made it back from a long day at work. First day back to work tram free & day 9 for me, yay.  I was so nervous about it but actually It was better than i expected.  Went in early, took a long lunch break to come home and rest, then worked late. I took B12 sublingual, lots of C, Ibprophen & peppermint candies(?).  I realized something today while walking up stairs at work and home. I have had a hard a time walking them for years and getting progressively worse, due to an autoimmune disease. That was one of the big reasons for starting tram in the first place. Anyway I noticed it was easier to climb them even when really tired tonight. I think I was withdrawing everyday that I took 5 or 6 pills, I probably needed much more then i was taking to keep up with the tolerance I was building up all these years. I also came home everyday and crashed, usually stayed on the coach most weekends to recover enough to make back to work every Monday, now I wonder...I really appreciated all the wonderful, sweet and sad pet stories from all of you fellow warriors. We are all a bunch of softies! So glad you are all here.

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by Ducky444, Jan 24, 2011
Couch

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by DamTram, Jan 24, 2011
Steph - Thank you!!  I'm just so lucky I wasn't on it for longer.

Nora - I'm starting to fall with you on the eyesight.  My vision's been blurry (since you mentioned it) and today my left eye straight up spit out my contact in the car ON THE FREEWAY.  Ugh.

So, you guys.

I went to my doctor today, because I needed a referral to an orthopedist (sp?) for my 6-week-long sprained thumb, and also wanted to talk with him about the risks of long term use of Tramadol.  

HE DIDN'T BELIEVE ME.

He told me it sounded like I had just had a bad reaction to it, and he was sincerely sorry for everything I've gone through.

As Emily would say, *KICKS TRAMADOL IN THE HEAD*

Then I went to my first meeting with a new therapist (since my Psychiatrist dumped me because I told him I was worried I was becoming addicted to tramageddon...that I was too much of a liability and needed to go into treatment).

The NEW therapist told me, 'You're only 7 days clean.  Opiate addiction is really terrible.  I don't think seeing a therapist once a week is really what you need.'

SHE'D ONLY KNOWN ME FOR 40 MINUTES!

I got really depressed.  And then my mother said, later, 'What would your Tramadol Forum say?'

I said, 'They'd say, 'But AT LEAST YOU'RE NOT ON TRAMADOL! At least you have your life back!''

And then I felt better.  Because it's true.  If I have to wait a month to convince someone that I'm far enough out of the hole to digest the whole experience, than fine.

I love you all.



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by NoraTorious, Jan 24, 2011
Ducky, I stopped exercising once I started that poisonous tram ride. I think this drug knocks the stuffing out of ya. Once I was in great shape, and now I am a gooey mess. I used to find the closest parking space possible on the Tram, and now I enjoy parking a little farther and walking. Here in So Cal the weather has been so nice this month, a premature spring (I say this because my strawberry plants are producing), and instead of holing myself inside, I enjoy being out in the sun, appreciating all the things around me. We live very close to the zoo and Balboa park. I think in the 4 years my husband has lived here, we walked there once or twice. Now I look forward to us doing this regularly. I truly believe Tramadol created more problems for me then it solved and I was sooo good at rationalizing WHY I needed it, and how it was not my problem. Since I have been off it, I have had some pain, but nothing a few ibuprofen, sme ACTIVON or salonpas after a nice hot bath did not take care of. And feeling the pain makes me realize I am present at last. Sure I still cry a lot, but not out of despair, but out of happiness, out of relief. I keep on saying to myself, 'WTF was I thinking, doing?' I missed appointments constantly, get togethers with friends, I just got known as a no-show. Most appointments and dates I was there, on time or early!

Even though it is hard to go to work, be glad you have a job, not just because of how things are right now, but for the distraction factor. I have not worked a real job in almost 6 years. I was supposed to work as a dresser for some shows in town, I had called, they were happy to hear from me, told me, 'Just call back w/your availability, look forward to working with you, etc', and I had to tell a friend who is in the costumer's union (and my former design partner) that I was in hospital to detox off painkillers.. He was able to let them know tactfully, without mentioning the gory, personal details, and I was put on the list to try and finish out the season. Which means a lot of physical work, carrying heavy costumes, running up & down stairs, dealing with Divas & difficult people. I applied for SDI and I am not sure whether or not I need it, and I need to see one of my Drs soon to advise on it (as when I applied I was agoraphobic and suicidal). W/ my chronic pain & depression I am not entirely sure of my limits and abilities anymore, and I am not sure if I can step into the big working world and cope. I need to be sure I am all there before I commit to something like that. I think I might volunteer for a bit to see what I can take on. More room for error there.


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by NoraTorious, Jan 24, 2011
DamTram, keep on fighting and stick to your guns!! You might want let your old psych know you are not chasing the TramDragon anymore and see if they might give you a referral, or some group counseling. If you feel NA is not your cuppa tea, try pills anonymous, or even just a good depression group. Also see if any of these Drs off what is called, a Dual Diagnosis program. Someone who is in recovery who has an issue with depression. And I mention this only because I got the idea you were having some depression issues, and if I am totally off base, forgive me.

Also, did you mention taking an antidepressant? Was it effexor? And if it was, your Dr should know better than to respond in that wayl Tramadol and Effexor can be a lethal combo when one or both are taken in high doses. My Dr almost lost her mind when I told her how much I was taking, or rather, prescribed, because I was taking WAY more than prescribed, to be sure. it reminds me of when I was in my 20s when I was taking Prozac, and the Drs refused to believe THAT was the thing that was making me sleep all the time (I could have a triple shot of espresso and moments later, lay down and take a nap). I was sleeping through work, through school, through fencing classes (I either ran, used a rowing machine and/ or ffenced 5-6 days a week and I could barely make it through warm up, much less any bouts). The Drs though I had the flu, was pregnant, or just too lazy to exercise. I went from being svelte, althetic, to gaining 50 pounds in 8 months. And still, they refused to think it was the Prozac. Because it is supposed to make you lose weight. NOW, over 12 years later, that IS a listed side effect. Drs get into this rut, I think, believing that we are borne from cookie cutters and are chemistry is all the same. They are the ones who should understand the most, that it just is not so.

I will not be surprised when some medical journal has some big article about how bad Tramadol is, even compared to Vicodin or Oxycontin.

Also, DAMTRAM, your Mom sounds great. My Mom and Dad have been SO supportive, I was floored. Not once did they judge me. They said to me 'If you had won a Nobel Peace Prize, we would have not been more proud'. So i am glad you have your Mom to support you. Yay Moms!!!


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by dani170, Jan 24, 2011
Dam Tram: What is GABA? Oh and your Trama Forum would say "SCREW YOU DOC" Well no that's not nice but I'd sure feel like telling her that!! Find someone who appeciates the work they do. They're are many good ones out there!

Ducky444: I had to smile when you mentioned how your legs didn't hurt as much walking up the stairs! That's sooo me! I couldn't believe it since I screwed up my knee playing Ultimate Frisbee and I was flying up and down the stairs today...so I know what you're talking about.
Isn't amazing the things you notice even being clean for 7,8 or 9 days?
OMG could you imagine what we'll see and feel in a few weeks, months and so on...EXCITING!!!

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by kaz47, Jan 25, 2011
Hi everyone - glad to see you are all going strong. my husband has now been off tramadol for 14 days - he has been very strong willed and determined and here 2 weeks later most of the withdrawal symptoms have gone - he has been taking Hylands for RLS and prior to last night they seemed to have a positive effect - for the past few days whilst he still had restless legs they seemed to intensify for a couple of hours round midnight and then suddenly stop and he was able to get some good sleep. However last night they came back with a vengence  and he was up until the early hours  - can anyone a few weeks in tell me if this is to be expected. many posters say that withdrawal is not linear and that you get up and down days and nights but anyone who has suffered rls - have you had the same happen? Hope someone can put our minds at rest on this one.

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by Ducky444, Jan 25, 2011
Day ten, I think(?), well that might good too-not white knuckling the days as much at all, rather letting them flow on their own. Imagine that the days Go on with me feeling good or not. My fake powers are gone. Thank goodness! Now to stay relaxed, focused, happy, and productive all at the same time.  A Herculean feat! But i see people here like sheliz and all the rest of you do it each day-here I come.


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by NoraTorious, Jan 25, 2011
Today, in about 5 or 6 hours, will be day 20, which is a personal goal, as was day 7. Actually every day is a goal, this is more of a milestone, I suppose. I am not 'grinding at the bit' (or however that goes) as much as I have been. My heart still races, but it has calmed down some.

I did not have as easy of a time with sleep last night, but I do feel my body is having an easier time relaxing on its own. I still take xanaflex, just not as much.

KAZ47-from my own experience, the withdrawal has it cycles. My energy levels have peaks and valleys, as does my ability to relax. Good news, our bodies are hell bent on surviving and regenerating. All in all, even if it is cyclical, I still feel some sort of improvement every day. I can see improvement in me looking back at the me 7 days ago or even 3 days ago. We live in a world of instant gratification. We can contact people instantly by email, text,or a phone call, we can have a meal made (or made for us) in 10 minutes, we watch TV shows where the protagonist's difficult life decisions are resolved in 23 minutes. I personally believe things of lasting quality take more time to work themselves out. Not that it makes it any easier, but if the withdrawal process was easy, I think more people would jump back on the Tram because of it. This excruciating process has made me realize the damage I did to myself, and I can never forget those first 4 or 5 days of withdrawal. I DO NOT want to go through that again.

We need to be patient, support each other, and be grateful to those who support us. Also remember the variables of detox & withdrawal can depend on your age, weight, how much of this garbage you are taking, how long, and your body's overall chemistry. One of my art teachers used to say, 'There is always going to be someone better than you, and worse than you'. And that applied to most aspects of my life, I found out.

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by Thistime4real, Jan 25, 2011
Went to class last night wasn't to bad. Took b12. And some d3 felt fine till night legs went crazy I have hylands but I didn't wanna go downstairs eventually got 2 hours sleep and at 4 am I was feeling so crappy. Thank God my wife took all our pills to her work so I wouldn't get to them cause I would have taken one I'm afraid. Glad I didn't cause by 8 I feel alot better about to eat and take my vitamins and its now been a full. 24 hours tram free 1 day down.

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by Sweetstang, Jan 25, 2011
Dam Tram-

I can tottally relate. I tried explaining this to a close friend of mine that is a recovering drub/alcholol addict and he suggested I

got back to my therapist since I relapsed. Which I have the apt set for next week finally. (had to reschedule due to weather) But

even before I relapsed and talked with her, its like her, my Neuro MD, my pain MD, even friends sometimes they all seem to

minimize the problem because there isn't a whole lot of info on this addcition. But as my friend says, its an addiction, and with

all the things that came along with taking this med, ya it is a problem, it doesn't matter what type of addiction it is. Which I don't

understand why the docs get that. Like I'm not making this up in my head and I'm not the only one struggling out there! So Best

of Luck everyone!

Day 23.


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by remarkablylucid, Jan 25, 2011
Day 14, which is unbelievable.  I never thought I could say 2 weeks clean and minimal problems, other than the weird night time anxiety and depression I feel stable.  Tax Law class today 3-6 and I'm looking forward to it because I can now actually understand and absorb the material and I love it.  Not sure why I keep getting up at 12pm or earlier doesn't matter what time I go to bed.  At the moment I'm optimistic it can only get better from here

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by Ducky444, Jan 25, 2011
Not proving an easy day today but not unmanageable.  Less sleep to work with and gi problems out of the blue. Thanks for continued spiration you all...

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by DamTram, Jan 25, 2011
Ducky444 - Hit that Immodium!  And for sleep...seriously, GABA!!  You are a fantastic person, and you are doing something amazing!!

SweetStang - Thank you for relating...I'm thinking maybe I should spend the 2 weeks in individual and group therapy to work through the trauma that was Traumadol.

Nora - CONGRATS!!!!  That's a huuuuuge milestone, and I'm so inspired!  Did your moon drops come?  I used to take them, but then my boyfriend at the time went on a rant about the quack that is homeopathy and the didn't work after that.  =(  Hyland's Leg Cramps PM is homeopathic, though, and I swear it works!  Yes, my mom is amazing...I don't know if I could've done this without her.  I detoxed alone, in my apartment, and had to call or text her every 3 hours to let her know I was alive.  It was a good way to keep track of progress.  Yes, I'm on Effexor and, like I said...considering staying on leave from work and going into a group program to deal with all this crap.  Thank you for your suggestions!!

Lucid - Congrats to you!  Again, GABA has helped me a great deal with the night time anxiety and depression.  If it gets too troublesome, it's worth a shot.

ThisTime - STAY STRONG!!!!  Take things ONE HOUR AT A TIME, and cherish the good hours and know that each day there will be more and more.  For me, Days 3 and 4 were huge turning points...keep feeling better!!

Dani - THANK YOU FOR YOUR POST!!  I laughed out loud, because it's true.  GABA is an amino acid derivative and key inhibitory neurotransmitter that promotes 'a calm mood', aka helps calm down our brain and, therefore, your pulse etc. so you can SLEEP!



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by hawkfan684, Jan 25, 2011
Day 8

I have to go back to work today so a little scared about that but I am going to keep a positive attitude and get through it.   I don't have a day off til next wed.  So 8 day stretch here I come.  I did have troubles sleeping last night but its part of the process.  Wish I could write more but need to finish getting ready and head out the door in 15 mins.

Just want to say I am proud of how strong all of you are.  Its kept me strong and has helped me to stay positive.  You all are doing great.

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by Ducky444, Jan 25, 2011
Looked for gaba on my lunch break but coundnt find it I'll go to gnc or a health food place afterwork. I'm biased but therapy with the right therapist is great- dont settle for people you relate to or don't relate to you- especially those I read mentioned that would turn you away to protect their own butts. It's another thing if they don't work in that area of substance abuse-then say so-but the under lying issues have little to do with the symptoms of abuse. But good quality therapy is excellent! Look on Goodtherapy.com to research really good folks with the right, respectful attitude towards clients.

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by NoraTorious, Jan 25, 2011
If only my pain management Dr was as good and easy to find as my psychiatrist and psychologist !! My most recent one (pain management Doctor) was the worst. She was duplicitous and her office manager had no kind of bedside manner or empathy towards the patients. My last appointment I let loose and told her what I thought of her and the whole lot of her office people. The 'Dr' was sooo sympathetic and understanding in office, but if I needed help just over the phone-could not be bothered. I was having issues with a prescription SHE wrote that my insurance did not want to cover, and she would need to call them-had no time for that. She acted like royalty. I saw one of the best pain managers in my city before he retired, and he would probably blow a gasket if he knew how I was being treated by her. So I am just dealing w/my primary care Dr for now, re pain mgmt.

I thought this day would really be a turn around but instead I feel like a dog on a short leash. If I broke free, I might bite someone. I just made my husband get ready so we can hit the drugstore for vitamins and supplements.

DamTram, your message came in time. I feel like I am going to cave, but having my husband at my side while I look for a healthier alternative to this sturm and drang I am experiencing should hopefully return me to where I was yesterday.

STAY STRONG PEOPLES!!!

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by NoraTorious, Jan 25, 2011
Okay, I bought some hylands calms, a multivitamin with minerals, fish oil, baththerapy, and valerian. The last is making my cats crazy!! The smell is rather...pungent and they are looking at me and sniffing like crazy, eyes open wide. I wonder if this is in the catnip family or something. Getting out, driving around & listening to music was helpful, I am hoping that my body is not too far gone that these supplements might be effective. I just wonder sometimes if I have screwed up my body so bad that it will never go back or be affected by anything but a huge shot of morphine or Demerol (neither of which I am condoning or trying to attain, just trying to illustrate a point).

I just want my heart to stop racing, and be able to relax again without the dependence of pharmaceuticals like I was before.

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by NoraTorious, Jan 25, 2011
I forgot to say...REMARKABLYLUCID! yay for you! ( love the puffer fish pic, BTW) :-)

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by Ducky444, Jan 25, 2011
Noratorious, Hope you got my message about my cat, kind of funny but totally accidental-regarding your post earlier damn health care people they need to do better by the ones that pay their bills-us. The doctor is ultimately responsible for their nasty behavior!

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by NoraTorious, Jan 25, 2011
Ducky, sounds like something MY cat would do! He loves to sit on my iPad, as if he is trying to 'Hatch' it! ;-)

Hopefully they will read my post and know it was an accident. I don't think I have said anything too naughty here!

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by tavia14, Jan 25, 2011
Hi all- Day 7 for me but off tramadol, vic 500 and norcos :( ..Still in hell and waiting to see the light.... I know it will come..I know it!! Thanks for the inspiration!

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by Ducky444, Jan 25, 2011
No you haven't said anything but good things!!!! I cannot believe this happened! I'm sorry-do you know what I should do to fix it? course I clicked the menu not the cat-guess I shouldn't blame him! He's busy onto other problems to solve for me.

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by Ducky444, Jan 25, 2011
Yay hawk fan day 8!!!! Thistime,school at 24 hours that's amazing! Well all of you impress me everyday. Imagine if we can do this we can do anything, really. This is the hardest thing I've ever done! And I've had some big messes to get out of and done some pretty stupid things, ask Nora Torious (kidding)

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by NoraTorious, Jan 25, 2011
Tavia, hold on!!! You will have bad days, but it will get better!!! Trust me. That is a lot to come off of, be kind to yourself. Lots of hot baths and showers!!!

Ducky, you may want to click on help or contact us at the bottom of this page and see what you can find. I am sure this has happened before, people/felines make mistakes. I am not too worried about it, let's wait and see what comes of it.

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by NoraTorious, Jan 25, 2011
Ducky, it's okay, all is well!! :-)

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by DamTram, Jan 25, 2011
Hey, Warriors!

Day 8 is almost over...and how am I celebrating, you ask?

By beginning to taper off of Effexor!  *cringe*

I used to take Cymbalta and got ignorant last Spring, thinking I could quit Cold Turkey.  After the Brain Zaps, I went back on and began my own taper down.

After having peeled off the Trama**** veil, I am eager to get the rest of this synthetic ******** out of my system...so that I can learn to cope with life AS ME, MYSELF AND I!

If I can survive Tramageddon, I can do anything...right?

=/

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by jjp918s, Jan 25, 2011
Hello Everyone,

Longtime Follower, First-time poster (to rephrase an old cliche).  I had a quick question for this evening, but will gladly give my own story at a later date.  My unfortunate journey with Tramadol began early in 2007 and lasted until my girlfriend couldn't get anymore from the Internet pharmacies she used in July 2008.  On July 20, 2008, I truly experienced what hell must feel like as I tried to withdrawal armed only with terror and vodka.  Thank god the next day I contacted student health services at my university (I was working on a second Master's Degree), where a GP prescribed me Klonopin (12 day supply with no refills) and Zoloft.  I did great on this regiment, but the next few weeks my relationship ended, I lost a job, had to pay all the bills for an expensive home once my ex moved out, etc.  The one thing I should have done but was too stubborn to do so was join a program, or some type of support community.  When the ex came back in my life 5 months later, the result was inevitable.  

These days I am underemployed and residing with my parents, staring at my impending 30th birthday knowing that I need to reverse the damage this drug has done to me.  So I have prepared myself for ending my relationship with this drug, and have only enough pills left to last me until maybe Saturday.  Unfortunately, I had been communicating with a clinic where they planned to accept me as a patient, but then the physician had to suddenly leave and postpone her appointments with new patients.  

So what I wanted to ask of you guys is:  who should I turn to now?  I've gone through withdrawals before, and know that I need to see a physician because cold turkey is just too much to bear (I'm on 500 mgs a day).  Did any of you meet with general practitioners or family doctors, or did you just visit the emergency room??  My current employer has lied countless times about giving me benefits, and I am still to this day without them, but have the ability to pay out of pocket, although the ER fee does concern me.  I wanted to see a psychiatrist with experience in addiction medicine, but whenever I said "no insurance" the receptionist couldn't hang up fast enough.  I think my only real option is a visit to the ER, but still, I thought maybe I would seek out some advice before doing this........

I really en

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by DamTram, Jan 25, 2011
JJP,

This community may be your solace in your un-insured time of need.

10x50mg is not SO high.  I binged for the 3 days leading up to my CT, and was taking ~50x50mg.  And guess what?  I'm on Day 8 with few withdrawal symptoms now.  But I only was on 6x50mg for 5months, consistently.

The issues that led you to use and abuse SURELY ought to be worked out with a therapist, but the ER bills for detoxing will be more depressing than FEELING THE POWER of doing it yourself.

This forum is FIIIIILLED with tips and suggestions to ease the withdrawal symptoms, and the BEST PART of saying **** you to Tramadol on your own....is knowing that YOU did it, that YOU lived to tell the tale, and that YOU were able to relish in each part of the process of 'lifting the veil' that is Tramageddon.  

Feel free to send me a PM if you have any questions or need some 1:1 support!

All my best, dear.

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by jjp918s, Jan 25, 2011
Whoops, should have proofread this a little bit better......obviously, I am a little bit scattered this evening.

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by jjp918s, Jan 25, 2011
The funny thing is that the reason I was able to finally take an honest appraisal of my situation and where I was headed was because of my love for the humor of Adam Carolla.  I listen to podcasts for 8 hours a day or more while at work, and was finding that I wanted some more Adam than just his podcast, so I've downloaded a TON of Loveline episodes from when he was on it.  Long story short, Dr. Drew's candor and insight on addiction really made me focus on what I had been trying to ignore for so long now.  I know many people are not big fans of his b/c of his television endeavors (I don't watch them), but the man must be appreciated for at least broaching this topic in such a public forum.

But yes, I think the Emergency Room is going to have to suffice for my case, although the financial aspect will certainly suck.  

Thanks again,

Jake.

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by rainallday, Jan 26, 2011
ok, day 24 starting and feeling sharp again after a 24 energy crash where i was zombified....I have no idea why but I cauld hardly sit up at times...lentil soup improved me and b-12 helped....wasnt expecting such a lack of energy to hit like that but hey I never know this month....I can't believe all the new people, but I'm sure glad to see them.....Yall won't believe how much better you'll feel about life in a few weeks.....
     I'm looking into getting GABA off amazon or ebay, it looks like a great product..I'm just iffy on which to get, and I'd like to get the 'complex' with complimentary ingredients like the taurine(I think) and glycosine  or whatever it is I forget because I read it 12 hours ago...Either way I love shopping online for healthy stuff and will read every ingredient list on every product for days I'm sure......
  Also ordered Quercitine (sp) w/bromeline (sp)  as Its supposed to be GREAT for sinus headaches and or other maladies like that...
      I must say it feels great to be finding natural supplements that will help me with the pains etc that damadol was handling.....Looking forward to spring and new activities and better health....
    Cheers to all the people here choosing a better life.

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by NoraTorious, Jan 26, 2011
I really don't think I am going to make it anymore on my own. My domestic problems are so difficult, I am having problems dealing with those. My husband, is wonderful, but not helping me except with doling out the meds. I have to push him to do the laundry, clean the catbox, or even wash the dishes. If I don't do them, it does not get done, and I am way too wiped out to be the only one doing it.

We are on COBRA right now which is ghastly expensive, and we cannot quit it, because my psychologist & psychiatrist are through there, and I cannot go back to looking around for someone else. I don't have it in me to be hunting around for people. I finally found a psychiatrist who was more concerned with me as a person, and did not just push drugs on me.

I handed my husband my ring, which is vintage art deco, platinum and old european cut diamonds and told him to sell it if he can't get a job. The thing is, he is not very assertive, and so this can be problematic when one is looking for work. I told him long ago to sign up at the temp agencies, just for a short gig. I gave him names of people that could use workers like him, and he just can't assert himself to do it. His losing his job and being so gun shy to find another was not helpful in my using. I don't want to blame him, but the situation was part of the reason my using got worse and worse over the last year. If I knew I was capable of working right now, I would. But, I am a nervous wreck. I got 5 hours of decent sleep, the valerian and calms are a little helpful, but right now it is a drop of water in the desert that is my shakes and pounding heart. I just don't know how much longer I can go on like this.

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by DamTram, Jan 26, 2011
You CAN and you WILL, Nora!!  You have come wayyyy too far!  You HAVE insurance (which is more than Emily or many others have), you HAVE a psychiatrist who doesn't see you as a pill box (not even I have this!), and it sounds like Trama**** wasn't really helping.

Have you and your husband gone to see your psychologist or psychiatrist together?  This might greatly aid in your domestic problems AND it sounds like it may help your husband to either accept and fight his depression, or to get some advice about what to do about it.

Get the GABA, girl, and DO NOT GO BACK.  It sounds like your husband really needs you...the real you.

All my love,
DT

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by wewar, Jan 26, 2011
Its been about a week now and still positive but last few days energy and mood is low. No reason for it other than side effects  of withdrawel.imo. Also today woke up after a prolonged nightmare. I am also angry today with the people around me noratorius who dont help and contribute to the domestic situation. I think this is also a side effect of withdrawal due to Tramadols unique way of softening the world and the selfish people in it to the user.
I have stopped and relapsed on Tramadol a few times becuase of how it takes away the pain of what i cant assert myself to do to improve all aspects of my life. Dont give up.  The journey to  freedom from  Tramadol is full of dragons. The small trivial things do seem huge at times but it will pass.  

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by ImDONENoMore, Jan 26, 2011
Nora - I can completely identify with what you're going through.

I think, in the beginning, we get excited because we've finally made the decision to quit and it is true - it feels SO empowering to know that YOU were the one to make the decision and YOU are the one doing the work to become free from this poison.

That being said, what happens is life continues on - the good AND the bad.  And it can be quite unsettling to actually have to face these issues without covering up your fear or your pain with drugs.  And that alone I believe is the reason many return to drugs.  You now have to handle things again only this time without that false sense of "serenity or security" that this rat poison provides (so fake).  And remind yourself that you weren't handling anything high - you were only blocking it out.  And when you are clean again, well, let's just say it is overwhelming to have to face all of those issues once again without the comfort of a drug.  But at least your head is clear and you can realize your situation and face it head on.

And I'm here to tell you that it does get easier and better with each passing day.  No, my problems have not disappeared, in fact, they are even bigger now than they were before because I neglected so many things when high that those issues are now before me and I have no choice but to face them head on.  Only now, I have a clear head.  And I'm able to think rationally as I was not able to do that before.  So even as hard as it all is, there's a "calm" I have internally that I haven't had for YEARS, so it makes doing what I need to do POSSIBLE.  And I have HOPE again (something I thought I lost long ago.)

But I can not stress how much more managable (and easier, yes easier) it gets to deal with your issues with a clear head.  There is simply no way around our lives, as we tend to think because we're feeling better that all of our problems will disappear.  That's just not the case.  But please remember, you're actually handling things now, whether it feels like that or not, and that alone is a HUGE step toward taking your life back and finding reasonable solutions to the issues you now have to address.

I hope this helps - and hang on.  I also think it's a great idea to see if your hubby will join you in the sessions with your psychiatrist.  Helping him is part of your job as his spouse and getting him involved in these sessions is a great place to start.

Hang in there.  Things have a way of "evening" out so to speak.  And each day, you are reinforced with the strength you found to quit in the first place.  That surprised me the most - that I actually had that strength within and that alone has kept me moving forward.  :)

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by DamTram, Jan 26, 2011
Since I've been enjoying music for the first time in 6 months, and I know a lot of you are too...perhaps you will enjoy this quote from a song that I heard in the car yesterday.  It seems MOST appropriate.

Just two stanzas...
Head Full of Doubt - The Avett Brothers

There’s a darkness upon me that’s flooded in light
In the fine print they tell me what’s wrong and what’s right
And it comes in black and it comes in white
And I’m frightened by those that don’t see it

There was a dream and one day I could see it
Like a bird in a cage I broke in and demanded that somebody free it
And there was a kid with a head full of doubt
So I’ll scream til I die and the last of those bad thoughts are finally out

<3

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by DamTram, Jan 26, 2011
Also, I finally finished the book that I started after my 1st 2 months of Trama****.  

It is ALSO most appropriate.  It takes place in a not-so-distant future in which Corporations (or, Corps) run the world.  One of these Corps is called "HealthWyzer" and it puts ingredients inside of its 'supplements' that purposefully make people sick, so that they have no choice but to pay more money to HealthWyzer so that they can receive 'treatment' from its doctors.

Hmm.

Margaret Atwood is a smart lady!
"The Year of the Flood"

Stay strong, ya'll!

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by wewar, Jan 26, 2011
ImDONENomore. Thanks for the above post. You write  well and its very inspiring

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by NoraTorious, Jan 26, 2011
I am trying to hang in there. My husband has been cleaning the house all day, which has been helpful. I really laid into him and told him how I was feeling. Afterwards I expected him to grab his phone ad leave, which he has done (when it comes to fight or flight, he is a self admitted flier). Instead he has been busy all morning. I sugggested we talk to one of the Drs on Fri (I have an out-patient follow up after my stay at the hospital). He agreed to it, and is making an effort.

Do not get me wrong, He is a good man. To know him is to love him. But it is hard when two people are depressed and having a hard time. But I need to concentrate on my healing, and my ability is limited. I take a shower, and I am wiped out. I was trying to clean up and I bent over to get out a pan in the kitchen, and felt like I was going to pass out. I know you all know my story. I want to help him and support him, but I am not in that place. I wish I could work. But right now, I can barely get through a day and I am not working.

I am a little more relaxed. I am popping valerian and hyland's calm like candy, my husband said he is going to do sone grocery shopping and look for the GABA later on-right now he is working on a little contract job he has and posting his resume to some temp sites. I took a BATHERAPY bath and now I just feel like I have the worst flu ever. Very achey, cold and grumpy.

DamTram and ImDONE, thank you, thank you for your kind words (and wewar as well).

And for me, the thing that is helping me, music wise, is the band OKGO. Their videos help pass the time, and their current album 'Colour of the blue sky' has been very poignant. With songs like, 'WTF', 'This too shall pass', 'All is not lost' and 'White knuckles', how can one not relate? Plus, they are just a bunch of super nice guys.

My fellow dog lovers, check out the TouTube video 'White Knuckles' (by OkGo). It is shot in my husband's home of Corvallis, OR with a bunch of adorable, talented dogs. The patience and love that these guys have to make this video and inform people about homeless puppies (and animals) is very inspiring.

I am trying, to get through this. I don't want to cave after 21 days of hard work. That is just not my way. This life is hard, but the prior life was much worse for me in the long run. I want to live, have a life. What I had before was exsistence. It was no life.

Thank you all for being a super girdle of support.

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by StephC28, Jan 26, 2011
ImDone – Thank you! Very well said. I can totally relate. I’m on day 25 today…and the initial “I did this!” is beginning to fade and I’m left with…life. It’s definitely a let down in some ways after the high of finding the strength to quit. BUT I completely agree that I feel more equipped to handle life now than I ever did on Tram. I think therapy is so useful in navigating this recovery process…and I know we all don’t have the $ to hand over…but there are mental health programs in most cities that do income based therapy. And sometimes you get lucky and find someone who’s fantastic. Worth looking into anyway.

NoraTorious – days 21-24 were a little tough for me…I got very irritable and just felt generally low on energy. Today I feel fantastic! Really centered, energetic, and upbeat. SO HANG IN THERE. There will be tough days, but this isn’t you after drugs. This is you still going through the withdrawal process. Allow yourself this time. Be good to yourself, try not to think too far ahead yet. We’re still in moment to moment territory…I, too, am struggling with my home life as my bf has not been particularly supportive. There are no easy answers except “stay the course.” You don’t want to move backwards. I know I don’t have another detox in me. Know you’ll continue to feel better as time passes and hold onto that – head up and weather the storm!

DamTram – I mean…this is too crazy! Literally was listening to Avett Brothers in the car today – that song in particular. And Atwood is an all time favorite author.

Jake- Welcome! My advice: I know CT *****. I do. I’ve been there. BUT YOU CAN DO IT. An ER visit or doctor will not make this that much less uncomfortable (the prescriptions for sleep aids and anti-depressants are helpful to some, but not necessary. Other than a couple sleep-aids someone gave me, I didn’t have anything). I do suggest, however, looking up the mental health people in your area. They specialize in this stuff (esp for people with no health insurance). They have doctors on staff, physiatrists, psychologists, support groups, etc. And all income-based.

It’s going to be tough. But you can do it. I was taking more than you (about 16 50mg/day), and I’m alive. And I’m an absolute WHIMP when it comes to physical pain (hell, emotional too for that matter, or I probably wouldn’t have numbed everything with Tramadol!). We can help you in terms of providing assurance (and reassurance) you’ll survive, keeping you on track, and keeping you motivated. The massive amount of supplements and vitamin advice that’s posted all over this site will help too.

Really, if you want to be done with Tramadol, you can so do this!


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by rainallday, Jan 26, 2011
Funny how several of us have some trouble at days 21-24 etc..I think its damadol calling in its calvary trying hard to make us give up! Not a Chance here....I have a headache right now on day 24, but took bufferin and sudafed and rubbed some vicks vaporub on my shoulders and the headache has lessened.....I missed the dam ups guy today for my quercitin...he always comes way late and I always miss him...Thats ok though i just ordered GABA powder on amazon with overnight shipping so tomorrow I have a shot at recieving both supplements I wanted...
      I really feel GREAT about taking on problems with a non drugged clear head...even if that head hurts lol.....
NOBODY here gives up ok???
      p.s. one of my goals is to put a picture in my profile of every stray cat I take care of..I have 2 up so far..I have been terribly lazy with my camera and only taken movies of the strays which I have up on youtube and facebook...SO now that I'm clean I want to take good pictures again, including 1 at least of every stray that ive named...
     Being clean and off of damadol I'm able to think about goals again and it feels great even though I know it will take some time to achieve my little goals like taking pictures again which I used to love to do....I may be poor but I have a great camera!
     For those who feel they are suffering, remember, baby steps....make little easy goals to fill your time up...Find natural supplements to help you with sleep, mood, etc etc....Check out encore westerns channel or aussie open tennis, they are both very relaxing....shop on amazon or ebay for natural products and aids...You'll feel better knowing your doing good for yourself....Make a positive mantra you repeat to yourself, I have 2: "Every day I'm getting better", and "I don't care what happens, I will handle it" Write down positive affirmations and put them where you will see them often!
And remember there are many here going through the same ordeal with you....Many here giving strength love and light to help you win the battle and the war....
      ok I'm off to watch westerns and tennis and (don't tell) downloaded movies, I need to watch all the movies nominated for best picture...Ive seen several so far, and it's fun to predict which will win...Have a great evening warriors!

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by Ducky444, Jan 26, 2011
NoraTorious, hey you one of my heroes you can make it!!! You have no choice! Love that you and hubby are going to see doc together. That means he's a brave man! We already know you'er  brave!!!Men so often have their esteem wrapped up in their work when that gets pulled out from under them its devastating-preaching to the choir, I know. It is so tough to go through all this and still have regular life to deal with.  I know you'll do it, and well.

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by Ducky444, Jan 26, 2011
Rainallday your words help a lot!  Unrelated-random cat thought-i Heard a stupid joke that for some reason is funny to me Today-"how is it that an animal that is only one foot tall manages to always have their tail at face level?I know I'm no standup....Keep my day job...

Today is is my eleventh day clean & sober, I had a lot of deep fatigue today, less tummy problems so that was good. I'm an unpredictable mess, but a little better each day! I'm NEVER going back and neither are you guys!!! We've come too far, even a few hours is far enough to never turn back, it won't be easier later and probably will be a lot worse if that's possible.

I'm sending strength and hope your way Nora Torious,  and all...ducky

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by solatesolate, Jan 26, 2011
hi all

as i told u all that i had rotten teeth and everyone thought it was from meth  i have been going to a wonderful dr who is working with me    i did not any flo growing up and he thinks this is why it happened
long story short i have had  severe problems with infection that can effect the heart and he thinks i should pull them all   at least my uppers  soooooooooooo  tomorrow  i will have sx to pull all the teeth   last time i had a major sx i woke up deaf (1998) and was told i might have had a stroke duh!
so please say a prayer tonight  
i am still on 15 tabs and dr knows about it and no alcohol for a while  i will let u know
all u guys are doing so great and i hope i can meet up with u

thanks for all the support all of u give to each other
me

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by jjp918s, Jan 26, 2011
StephC28,

Thank you for the advice.  I've been scratching my head and torturing my brain today trying to figure out which professional(s) I should call, and whether or not I should just plan on beginning the withdrawals in a few weeks instead of this weekend.  It was so easy last time, I went through 24 hours of hellish w/d's, then called my doctor who got me in within an hour, was prescribed Klonipin (12 day supply), and badda bing badda boom, I got through the worst days (okay, so it wasn't that easy as you all know, but the truth is that without the Klonipin I might have done some sort of harm to myself given the severity of the psychological withdrawals).  Had I only sought out a recovery program, or some type of support, I wouldn't be here today.....sigh.  I think my best plan going forward is to make one last deal with the devil (read: order one last bottle of uhg) while I wait on an appointment with the local community health specialists, or the family doctor my mother uses.  Ideally, I will hand over to them the pills I didn't take, and can begin the w/d process for the last time in my life.  I've got a lot of calls to make tomorrow, god I hope I have an appointment set up by the end of the day.

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by NoraTorious, Jan 26, 2011
Oh Ducky, I Sooooo do not feel like a hero right now. Good grief! Today I am just feeling so sorry for myself. I hate feeling like this, even though I know it is not forever, it has been a crappy *** day. I am usually good about dealing with things with humor, while in hospital I would say that in times of great despair, I channel Hawkeye Pierce from M*A*S*H. But today has been the pity party starring a one NoraTorious as your host.

My Calm Drops, Moon Drops and Arnica drops came, I am taking them, no word if they are successful, but I am trying every homeopathic thing I can. My heart feels like it is going to jump right out of my ribcage. My head is woozy, my body just does NOT want to cooperate.

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by Ducky444, Jan 27, 2011
NT:I'm so sorry it's been so tough- do whatever you can-hold on to the seat of your chair-we're all supporting your recovery.
Jjp918s, no advice about pills or no pills, I know I've been in your shoes before -I certainly never heard advice I'd take. Until now that is. But honestly until I decided "today is the day" I wouldn't have let them go... I made many life decisions over a lifetime based on addictions and erroneous ideas. If I could go back to 30 and re-decide I soooo would. Make your decisions count for the long term today. Good luck, If i can do this you certainly can, in your own way and time. Thoughts & prayers...

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by NoraTorious, Jan 27, 2011
The sleep thing is making me nuts. If I was younger I probably would not care, but as I get older, it really bugs me. My husband kicked me in the shoulder tonight (sometimes he sleeps with his head @ the foot of the bed) not on purpose, just a reflex. But he snores, talks, and gets rather active in sleep. Then there is my upstairs neighbor. He is a quiet guy, as far as neighbors go. But he snores a blue streak. He is also kind of a shut in, and one of those people that spends most of his days off in his bedroom. I feel the bedroom is a room for sleeping and quiet activities. His room is his personal office, so I get to hear him drumming on his desk, talking on the phone, his IM chime on his computer, and his paper Shredder. If I could wear earplugs I would be first in line, but I find they give me earaches and trigger my sinus headaches. I am wearing my my iPod right now, and have it up pretty loud, and I can STILL hear him. How does such a little guy snore so loud? I want to write him a letter, telling him how serious sleep apnea is, but I know it just would not go over well. He is much better than my EURO party bros who lived above me about 5 years ago and were prone to chasing their conquests all over the apartment then had very loud angry-sounding sex. And that was when they were not having massive parties. The apt manager is a good friend, but there is not a lot he can do. This detox/WD period has made me a nasty, irritable person. I don't like this and I have to have a death grip hope that I will get better. Right now, I feel like I have ruined my body permanently. I tried a million supplements, and they do very little.

I see my GP Dr in about 12 hours, I am going to need to look into some antacid and maybe temporary use of Gabapentin, which has helped. I am not sure what she can do, but I think it is wise to follow up with her, since the last time I saw her was a week before I went cold turkey. I think it can't hurt, if anything to have a follow up, post Tramadol, and she can see for herself how I am.

My apologies for posting almost in an OCD way, but I need some distraction of some sort. Coming here does allow for some respite from this whole thing.

Will it get better? Will my body return to some decent 'normal' state? Or is it just too late for me?

A little voice in me says it will, and I am trying to drown out all the bad ones and listen to this little voice only.

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by rt35630, Jan 27, 2011
Ok...confession time here...The Comcast Cable guy showed up at 8 a.m. yesterday, and I was feening for my morning 100mg (my partner has been feeding me my pills 100mg 3x a day). I was in the bathroom and saw where he had hidden the bottle. The addict in me came home at lunch when he was in another room and dumped about 8 pills in my hand and put them in my coat pocket.

Thankfully, when I came home last night he told me he had moved them. Must be keeping inventory. I SO love my husband!

I have been "Tapering" since before Christmas. I got down t 10/12 a day by early December and stayed there because my job as a Church musician needed me at full force. I have not been able to taper myself past that, so I asked Joe to give me the meds.

We agreed to go from 10 a day to 6, and yes my days have been uncomfortable, but nothing I can't deal with - easily. I am so mad at myself for that handful, although I was wonderfully perky and fun last night when I led my two choir rehearsals.

My goal all along has been to go cold turkey in February no matter what, and I am going to stay with that. So I need to let Joe control my taper!

Just say a prayer for me that I will not do such a foolish thing again. I REALLY want to be off this crap. It is in control of my life, and I hate worrying about running out, etc.

Peace/Out for now!   --Randy

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by Sweetstang, Jan 27, 2011
Day 25.

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by ImDONENoMore, Jan 27, 2011
Sweetstang - Congrats on Day 25!!!  You may not be feeling it fully yet, but this is HUGE.  Hang in there, little by little it gets better.  Don't lose hope!

I'm happy for you.  :)

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by NoraTorious, Jan 27, 2011
Sweetstang, congrats!! Please tell those of us who have yet to hit that mark how it is going.

Bought the GABA. Again, my body is total Teflon. Nothing seems to penetrate it. Actually, to be fair, it did mellow me out a bit for about 2-3 hours. But it is returning, I am feeling much like I did in my early recovery. Not as bad as the first 5 days, but still pretty anxious. I am going to bathe and shower as I am seeing my Dr (general practitioner) in about 2 hours.

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by Ducky444, Jan 27, 2011
Good NT-maybe she can help in some non-ruiness way. Day 12, tired, need the GABA cant get to store guess I'll order it online-b12 turned on me,  yuck! Have to tough out some of this crap. I've been to work everyday-at least physically at work. Good luck all

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by rainallday, Jan 27, 2011
Congrats Sweetstang! I think its day 25 for me also..My 1st day was the 3rd of January....
    Nice dog Imdonenomore! lol what a cutie pie....One of the perks of delivering pizza is seeing so many different dogs and cats....
Today I'm groggy but the aweful headache yesterday that came back shorlty after posting here and ruined 24 hours of time is now fading away.....The only way it ended was melatonin and sleep.....And thats the way its been for years and years....Last year I had a goal of getting a back inversion machine to relieve pressure in the neck and spine, but I failed to get one.....Been living paycheck to paycheck....Renewed the goal this year...Life sux on a migraine, tension fibromialgia kinda day...But that was yesterday..(wow I quoted from a foreigner song heh)...
        Time to feed the strays

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by DamTram, Jan 27, 2011
RainAllDay - I hope you feel better soon!!

Ducky - I hope you get the GABA soon!  It's helped me so much, when taken before bed.  I couldn't tolerate the b12 at all...hurt my chest =/  I'm on Day 10...so you're my sister in recovery!  <3 <3 <3

Nora - Keep posting!  Reading and posting is keeping me alive...every time I'm sad, anxious, or sick.  Which is most of the time.  Right now it's a bogus headache.  Blech.  Thinking of you!!

Randy - That is SOOOOO something I would've done!!  I'm so glad that your husband is adopting the role of pharmacist.  It'll be so helpful to both of you.

Steph - Are we soul sisters??  You're in Cali, right?

Solate - I'm SOOOO glad you are taking control and putting it into hands of med professionals!  You are already sounding much better!

Jake - YOU CAN DO THIS!!  

Headache is shuttin me down.  STAY STRONG, YA'LL!


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by Ducky444, Jan 27, 2011
You all rock!! I'm a child of 60's so I know what rocks, I'm just sayin....

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by ImDONENoMore, Jan 27, 2011
Thank you rainallday - I love her SO SO much - she is a huge blessing in my life.  And I just wanted to say thank you also for the way you feed the strays.  You have a kind heart and it makes me feel really good that there are people in the world like you.  Especially since it seems like the only kind of people we hear about (news, internet, whatever) are very bad people.  It encourages and inspires me to know you're around.  Thank you.

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by NoraTorious, Jan 27, 2011
Saw my PC Dr and she was not pleased I was lying to her about my meds. I can't say I blamed her. But she was the first Dr who has actually shown concern for the high levels I was taking. She said I would get better, but it would take time, and I was lucky not to be working. And I need to exercise. AND that I was a tough case, I have a HUGE issue with anxiety (wow...don't I know it). So I went to make an appt with my Psych, but he is on Medical leave. So they set me up with another Dr, temporarily, and I see him on Monday. He is actually my husband's Dr, and I know he is great. I am still really wound up, I guess I need to start facing the fact I will be lucky to get any amount of sleep in the next week. So tomorrow, I
start my first 5 minutes of exercise. It can only help. I will be hobbling around the first couple of days, as I am week as a kitten right now, but I will build up strength and relieve some anxiety and stress. Hey, I am willing to give anything a shot. It's not a narcotic, it is free, and it will make me better.

I am so glad to be surrounded by a bunch of great supporters and better yet, Pet lovers!!! Please watch the OKGO 'White Knuckles' video and watch those talented dogs!

<3

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by NoraTorious, Jan 27, 2011
Oh, also, ImDONEnomore-your Shelby is a doll! I love daschunds. My Mom had one when she was young (named Tootsie). She and my Dad have beagle named Lucy, and she is active in various small dog and Beagle rescue organizations. I think it has kept her very young, she is 74 and if you saw her, you would not believe she is that age. Most people guess 50 or 60. She and my Dad have instilled the idea that pets are members of the family, and were treated as much. She knows how crazy we are about our kitties. Also, your house is lovely. Love the garden and your kitchen is awesome. We live in a more urban area, which means city living in a small space. Southern CA is damn expensive.

Can any of you that are farther down the road than me shed a little insight on how your days 20-30 were? Mine are pretty sucky. I am feeling the flu symptoms and cold feet, but not pouring sweat as badly as before.

Husband is going start walking with me. I warned him he better be ready to rise early, since that is how I am these days.

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by ImDONENoMore, Jan 27, 2011
Hi Nora,

I'm so sorry it's been so difficult.  But I can tell you it was EXACTLY the same for me when I was at your point.  I really got discouraged in those days, but just figured since I had taken this rat poison for so long, that I had to give it some time.  I know that's hard to hear right now (my husband would tell me this and I would just mumble something and walk away, I felt SO discouraged).  But it's very normal so just hold on for a little longer.  I found at about a month or so I would begin to have almost full good days - it would happen in such a random fashion - sometimes a few great hours followed by a few bad hours, but then with time, that became a few good days, followed by a bad one, and so on.

You are so close to turning that corner so HOLD ON!  Allow yourself to be in a crappy mood for a while - it's okay because the payoff is SO worth it.  You'll see.  I just told myself I had to be okay with feeling miserable for a while longer.  I knew it would eventually be a distant memory (well, not the first 1-7 days - those were HORRIBLE and I will never forget them which keeps me from going back), but eventually all of this bad stuff will be behind you.  Yes we will always have to have our guard up as far as addiction goes.  I know now that I can never go back to drugs again.  And once your head is clear, you'll be okay with that kind of thinking you'll see.  And if you can't sleep at night as I know how hard that can be, just get up - watch a movie or some mindless TV and since you aren't working (which helped me SO much to not be working during all of this) then just take the sleep wherever you can get it.  Doesn't matter when, just listen to your body.  Eventually sleep will come and the anxiety will lessen.  I have faith in you!!  p.s. and thanks for mentioning Shelby.  i agree she is a doll and yup, she's a dachshund - and a total sweetheart.  i love that your mom works for the rescue organization i so admire that.  and i don't doubt that the work keeps her young.  p.p.s. and yay for you on the exercise.  you won't believe how much that helps but start out slow and work your way up.  i was a little over zealous in the exercise dept. in the beginning so i had to step back and start out slowly.  but it will help ALOT! :)

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by NoraTorious, Jan 27, 2011
Ducky, did you watch a lot of 'Family Affair' growing up?;-) I grew up in the 70's -80's. A lot of 'Partridge Family' and 'Johnny Quest'. Oh, and 'Star Trek' TOS

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by NoraTorious, Jan 27, 2011
Thank you for your insight, I'mDONE, your words are so very helpful. I am just hanging on tight!

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by ImDONENoMore, Jan 27, 2011
That's all you have to do - and soon it will be midnight and you'll have another day under your belt.  :)

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by madtram, Jan 27, 2011
NoraTorious, the only supplements that made any difference to me during withdrawal (& I tried them all), were d-phenylalanine for pain & high dose insositol, (2x 6 grams per day) for palpitations.  Everyone's biochemistry is different so it does mean being a bit experimental to find what works for you.

GABA theoretically does not cross the blood brain barrier & that seems to be the case for most people but there are also clearly some responders like damntram who are wired differently.  Lucy you damntram, as boosting GABA levels can be a great help in withdrawal.  I so wanted GABA to work for me that I took mega gram doses with unfortunately zero effect.

The non responders to GABA supplementation may get some relief from substances that act on the receptors such as valerian; passion flower or kava.   None of these worked to get me to sleep during withdrawal but I find valerian & kava both helpful now with hormone related anxiety although there seems to be a tolerance factor with valerian.

Gabapentin is one of those meds that either suits people or doesn't.  It's definitely worth a try as it can be good for pain control & withdrawal symptoms.

Solate, I hope your surgery went well & there is a major upswing in your health as the infection as resolved.  Walking round with a constant low grade infection would be running you down for sure.

Go well, warriors.

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by rainallday, Jan 28, 2011
Thanks Imdonenomore for the kind words, and also Damtram..(And anyone else I missed).
            I got 4 strays pictures taken today that I'll put up in the profile....Still many more to go....Ive been feeling great since waking up and taking the quercetin/bromelain, but I usually feel good after a migraine day so I dont know which it is, and I'm happy either way.....I'll be trying the GABA powder out later tonight after the semi-final aussie open match..Sorry it didnt work for you Noratorius, maybe you could try it with something else like melatonin and the combo would work....If it doesnt work at 1st for me I'll find a combo with it..
         All in all day 25 felt GREAT compared to 24.....NO symptoms other than niagra pits lol....
         Just finished watching 'The Social network" - pretty good movie....(not best picture though), and I'm starting "The Fighter" now....So far I'd say 'True grit' is up there near the top along with 'Winter's Bone" .....Black Swan was pretty good..as well as "Inception".......MY darkhorse is Winters bone so far, but it doesnt have a chance.....I'm sortof a movie addict and can usually predict the best picture...We'll see when Ive seen all of them..In any case movies are a GREAT escape from reality and withdrawals....I recommend watching any movies if you are feeling down....(Except beware of sad movies, I watched "The Rabbit Hole" during heavy withdrawals and got real depressed.....
  If anyone wants a great laugh, please see "Dinner for Schmucks", I say it was about the funniest movie I've seen in years, funniest probably since 'Tropic Thunder' lol........
Have a great night warriors and stay strong

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by muchforgiven, Jan 28, 2011
Hello everyone. There have been some great conversations taking place here recently. I can feel your pain. I must say it doesn't make me want to jump in just yet. I am weaning. Starting on 3 1/2 pills this week.My plan is to go down by 1/2 pill a week as someone suggested. So far so good. I am determined to get this awful drug out of my system and feel alive again.Sometimes I forget what that felt like. I have been running on automatic for the last 2 yrs.
On a loghter note, my husband and I just got a sheltie puppy, he is about 20 wks. old and cute as anything. He is driving us crazy at night because he only seems to sleep for about 1-3 hrs. and then starts whining or barking. We have been taking turns getting up with him. I know this will pass as he gets older.
Please hang in all you warriors, you have no idea how your courage and stamina are helping my resolve.Blessings to everyone.

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by NoraTorious, Jan 28, 2011
Awake again. This is nuts. I can say I got probably 4 or 5 hours of sleep at the very most.

Madtram, thank you for your advice. I am glad I am not the only one. I keep on telling myself I have got to another day without needing Tramadol, it feels like there is 100 hours to one hour these early mornings.

And today is the day my husband and I start to exercise. I am sooooo not looking forward to this. I am so gooey from no exercise, and the withdrawals have made me drained. But I know I must push myself, even if it is a simple walk to the end of the street, and back.

One of our kitties, Byron, and I are very close. He has to be near me all the time, wants to cuddle and love, especially at night. He is a big cat (not fat, just a very lage, muscular, leggy black cat) and his weight on me is too much right now. In fact, I am normally a very affectionate person, (with both my husband and kitties) but this withdrawal thing is putting me in a 'touch me not' mode. I feel a lot of the same symptoms I did during days 1-5, but on a smaller scale. I thought things would be better by now. They are, but I figured my symptoms would be less...which they are...I just thought I would be farther ahead. I keep on reminding myself that this is not linear, and for as long as I have been poisoning my body, I should expect it to take longer than I expect it to. The physical withdrawal may not be linear, but my mental recovery is. I can't move backwards, only forwards. When I look back, I see this treacherous journey that luckily did not put my health in major mortal danger, ODing, seiizures, etc. And the road before me is not a nicely paved one, but I can still do it, just not as fast. And I see no other way of going. No alternative routes or shortcuts.

I am hoping to keep busy this weekend with domestic chores and my small amounts of exercise. Something to prevent me from laying around all day.

I am thinking good thoughts for you all. Thank you all, so so much for all your support. This site has been so instrumental in my recovery!!!

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by Ducky444, Jan 28, 2011
hey NoraTorious (I think ToraTora when I write ur name, b/c I'm old!),
I watched star trek the original 3:30 everyday!!!! I watched the Partridge fam but lied and said I didn't-didn't think it cool enough to admit to. I was tortured artist hippie kid goth before goth. Depressed more likely!

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by NoraTorious, Jan 28, 2011
I was pretty much the same thing, Ducky. But growing up in the 80's, there was more of a punk rock teen angst, 60's mod gotta ride my vespa scooter thing (yes I really had one too). Speaking of vespas, that is what my husband and I chatted about whilst WALKING!! Yes, that's right! I planned to walk for 5 minutes but it turned into 15. We just circled our block a couple of times. I am glad I did it. I still feel like a complete mess. Heart won't stop pounding, shaking like crazy. I feel like I am reliving those first few days. It really *****. But I gotta be the Shark. I gotta keep moving forward, or I will not make it. I can't go backwards.

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by Ducky444, Jan 28, 2011
So scary but I know you'll make it! glad you got a good hubby to walk and talk with-he sounds like a good guy! So you were punk rocker!!!! Jealous of the Vespa "chow"probably nearer my son's age-not easy at any age, these days if it ever was.  I was just reading about brain research and honestly the twenties are becoming a new "life stage" complete with returning home, taking a longer time to reach independance, and lots of difficult barriers to development like drugs.... which arrest it. Adolescence really wasnt an accepted "life stage" until around my generation.  My parents generation were mini adults basically.  Listen to me I'll get kicked off for lecturing!!! the old teacher in me.  Plus I'm at work and struggling to stay at work...Peace

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by stressed_one, Jan 28, 2011
My one year anniversary off hydrocodone is coming up on February 5th.  Recently, I've been having a lot of hard life struggles, father diagnosed with stage four lung cancer, problems with husband, kitten dying from incurable FIP along with other things.  My anxiety levels are so high, I find it hard to focus on anything.  I'm really having a hard time.  Out of desparation I ordered tramadol from an online pharmacy.  I know in my heart that is was the wrong thing to do, it is supposed to arrive today.  I'm needing the strength to throw it out.  I started reading the posts here and it is beginning to sink in the seriousness of my choice.  Thanks for sharing your stories.

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by NoraTorious, Jan 28, 2011
Stressed, PLEASE LISTEN TO ME!!! When you get that crap, you put it in the garbage disposal!!! I am telling because I do not want to have to go wherever you are and kick some Tramadol booty! Because my detox is in a bad stage i can be there and show you can,up close and persona,l how a smart, intelligent, funny, charming person becomes a total slave to a bottle of stupid pills! How I cannot get a decent night's sleep, I am having the shakes so bad I can barely type this! I really should have had my husband film my first 3 days of detox. It was an ugly ugly mess. I am 23 days in and I feel like I am at the beginning.

I know you are having troubles. I totally understand. Believe me, I do! And life seems so hard to deal with without that cushion. But you have dealt with your life and sobriety for almost a full year! Your anniversary is going to be my 30 day anniversary! You are doing so well!!

Get help! Call your Dr, go to an NA meeting. If you are having money issues, check online for Drs in your area that work on a sliding scale. They are out there. Check the local universities.

Please, I beg you, do not do this. It will only make things worse in the long run.

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by ImDONENoMore, Jan 28, 2011
Stressed - LISTEN to NoraTorious because she's RIGHT.  You will regret taking those pills like you never have before.  DO NOT GIVE UP NOW!!!  When the package arrives, take each and every pill and FLUSH them.  Don't just throw them away or they'll be on your mind and you'll be going through the garbage before you know it.  Getting clean doesn't mean getting rid of our problems.  But taking drugs means you'll have MORE problems and WON'T be able to face what you have going on now in any real way.  Please please - get rid of them NOW.

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by ImDONENoMore, Jan 28, 2011
And remember Stressed - you came here after you ordered the pills.  So somewhere deep down inside you already know what you need to do - you just need a little push.  And sometimes we all do.  NOW GO FLUSH THEM!!!

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by NoraTorious, Jan 28, 2011
Thank you, I'mDONE-you hit it on the mark! Your problems stay, and you need to hold it together! Your Dad is going to need you now more than ever. And your Kitty, your kitty needs your help. And you need to keep it together.

Things work out, and nothing is worth that poison. You could kill yourself, do you realize that? Don't do it!


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by Ducky444, Jan 28, 2011
Stressed, pleaseclisten to the wisdom in this forum. I wish I was at my one year anniversary I would hope I'd never go back. You come so far it's actually amazing.  You'll be more help to kitty and dad if you're fully present for them they need you whole while they're struggling and you regret not being there forever! I hope you find the strength you found one year ago.

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by NoraTorious, Jan 28, 2011
Me too, Ducky!!! I can barely make it through my 23rd day, I am a week away from my 30 days and it feels like it is a million years from now. Stressed, you are far along, you canonot cave now!!!

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by ImDONENoMore, Jan 28, 2011
Great point Ducky - REGRET.  That's a biggie.  It s**ks and we know it.  You are at a cross roads, don't make the wrong turn.  You have a CHOICE here.  Please remember that.  Everyone is right - your Dad needs you now more than ever and so does your kitty.  Please listen to us.  Please.  p.s. and Nora is right - taking this drug again after being clean for so long - your tolerance won't be the same and it could KILL you.  Don't do it.  Just don't do it.

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by wewar, Jan 28, 2011
Been working last couple of days. Thursday was a 12 hour day. I did reach for some Codeine in the late afternoon due to bieng on my knees from effort and pain. My job can be almost unbearable and one of the reasons I started using Tramadol in the first place. Take one at 3am on a night shift and the relief is unbelievable....such power this drug has

I am still trying to turn things around with meditation which is hard work but will keep at it . I have found a website called freebuddhistaudio.com with loads of talks and meditation practice, mindfullness etc. I would recommend daily mindfullness practice but what I am finding is my fears and problems with coping are breaking over me more strongly at the moment. This is not untypical and I think its about time I faced them with a clear head.

I am happy to have got so far which is about a week. Tramadol still sits and whispers in my ear and will do for my life term I suppose. But it will get easier.

Stressed.... Tramadol is not for you in your circumstances. It will make you feel good at first then take over until IT is the most important thing in your life. Do you really want that. Its not a natural  opiate substance. A man made molecule whose dimensions are not of this world...... No one understands its power of addiction better than the posters here.



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by rainallday, Jan 28, 2011
Hey Noratorius you about to have some good days...you'll see, your mind will feel better even if the body doesnt..
day 26 I think here...the last several days have felt great mentally, with sharpness returning....still have the insomnia but got 5 hours this morning..I know symptoms come and they go, but mentally it feels so much better...
      Stressed I guess you know now coming here that weve all been through some personal hells.....Take the advice of the veterans here...and start looking for natural alternatives...plenty are listed here...
  well off to a long shift at work, yall have a great evening and be strong!

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by stressed_one, Jan 28, 2011
I'm listening,,,really didn't expect so much support thanks for the wise words.  I missed the delivery today, has to be signed for.  My resolve is stronger to stay clean, than it was. I went off hydrocodone cold turkey last year and I was living hour by hour, for the first three days, really tough.  I'm reading that this is worse.  Thanks for the support.  I'll continue reading and look for non-addictive solutions for anxiety and chronic back pain.  You all are very kind and I wish  you all healthy, happy days ahead.

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by NoraTorious, Jan 28, 2011
Stressed, I am so glad to hear that. You are being so freaking strong, and that is much more important to those you libe, and mostly to yourself. We are all so proud of you, and you are doing the right thing.

Just back from my addiction medicine appt. My regular Dr was not in and I saw another guy. He was a bit older and very well versed in his field. He was telling me, if one does extensive Tramadol research, one can find that the pharmaceutical companies who 'created Tramadol' ( next to the room where they made frankenstien, no doubt) actually devcieved the doctors on this non-addictive hooey. There have been several private lawsuits, but it is only in the last 2-3 years the PDR has reflected this. I wonder if certain Doctors just don't want to believe it, or never saw it happen, whatever. But I asked him if he could give me some articles on it, and He said he would. He is not my regular addiction medicine Dr, but he is head of the dept, so...

I mean, it sounds feasible. And something a pharmaceuticals company would do.

Thank you all for renewing my faith in the human race. I really am so glad so many people ware here to support each other. This place has been better than any group.

My DR said I can increase my trazadone and my vistaril, as needed. I think I will, but not forever. I just want to get through this rough patch.

Thank you all so much!!! Stressed_out, hang in there, we are here for you!!!

He did up my trazadone, so I hope to sleep better this weekend. I also take vistaril for the detox, it takes the edge off but not for long. He said if I want to double up, I may. And I really think I would only do that now and then. Since these last couple of days have been white knucklers for me, it might help me get through this rough period. I really want to be on as little pharmeceuticals as possible. I quit cold turkey, but I was being monitored. And I don't want to end up where I started. So I am trying to take one disaster at a time.

Thanks to all of you, my faith in the human race has been renewed. Thank you for supporting a perfect stranger like me, and I am glad we all here for Stressed_out. And we will continue to be here for her - and each other. I think this place has been better for me than any group could have been.

Thank you all!!!


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by NoraTorious, Jan 28, 2011
Sorry, I repeated myself. I thought I had deleted part of my post, I retyped it. Sorry :-/

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by DamTram, Jan 28, 2011
Yayyy, Nora!!!  You sound much relieved about the outlook, and I am SOOOO glad that you found a doctor who validated all of the things that we have read and heard!  I also hope you can one day scan those articles for us so that WE can show OUR doctors who told US we were CRAZY (still mad)!

I agree that this has been better than any group...this drug and its uses and abuses and withdraws are so specialized.  What fortune, for us, that we found one another.

Stressed - I have withdrawn from BOTH and Tramadol is SO MUCH WORSE and SO MUCH LONGER LASTING!  I'm so glad that you found us and are quickly changing your mind!

Also a GREAT movie for laughing...Easy A.  I know it looks dumb, but it is NOT.  Highly recommended.

<3 to All


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by DamTram, Jan 28, 2011
Sooo...it's been 24 hours of the flu or my Effexor taper.  I'm down to ~19mgx2/day, and tolerating the withdrawal better than a) Trama**** withdrawal and b) most others tolerate Effexor withdrawal.  No brain zaps, yet!  Just runny nose, sore throat, low-grade fever, headaches, fatigue, and muscle aches.  It's like PARADISE compared to days 1-4 of Tramageddon w/d!  

I slept all night and all day because of it, so...if anything, it's helping the remaining Tramapuke leaving my system (i.e. insomnia, RLS).

The anxiety has been much more under control, and still no depression.

I've decided not to go back to work and, instead, to enter a day program for a few weeks to work out the trauma that's been my life...that led me to ingested this **** for chronic pain.

One question....

I haven't cried!  The last time that I cried was after my accidental overdose at Christmas (Soma + Tramadol = Loss of Cortical Function).  I've essentially ruined my career and have been enduring full-body pain/insomnia/etc. for the last 2 weeks...why haven't I cried?  I'm so scared that one day it's going to come crashing down on me at some terrible, inopportune moment (e.g., in the car).  I should be crying, right?

Hope you're all relaxing into the weekend!  Much deserved, Warriors!!

All my love.

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by DamTram, Jan 28, 2011
Look at all these black kitties!  Cuteness.

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by NoraTorious, Jan 28, 2011
I have a soft spot for the black kitties.


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by madtram, Jan 28, 2011
Stressed, passionflower & kava have been found as effective for anxiety in double blind clinical trials as valium but they do not appear to have the tolerance effect of benzos.  Reduced anxiety will probably help your perception of pain also.
These plant substances are undoubtedly more subtle in their effects than benzos or opioids but as you have been clean for a year, (well done you), you may find that the effects are just enough.

Damn Tram, you are a major trooper going straight on to an effexor taper, with your determination, I am sure you will free yourself of your emotional roadblocks.

Nora, I hope the trazodone helps you get some sleep, it can make all the difference.

Wewar, well done for keeping at the meditation practice.  I was a regular practitioner after discovering its benefits during a very traumatic marriage break-down but once I got with the tram guru, I didn't 'need' it anymore.  I went at it very half heartedly during withdrawal & even now, I don't have a regular practice back so thanks for inspiring me to start again today.

Keep the kitty snaps coming, all felines make me feel good.

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by Ducky444, Jan 29, 2011
Great Nora,Stresses, dam tram, all good news! love the new cat pics! I found l-thiesine, 5-htp & probiotics (sp), hopefully I can repair me some neurotransmitters. I agree this is better than group, for me anyway. I too once practiced meditation and have not renewed the connection. I want to but am a little too pissed off at the universe as yet! Love, hope and strength to you all.

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by ImDONENoMore, Jan 29, 2011
DamTram - I couldn't cry (or laugh for that matter, even smile) for the first few weeks as I just felt numb.  So I think it's okay - I did eventually release all of the emotions and it actually felt good.  Crying is a release so when it happens, just allow it.  And if it's while you're in your car, just pull over and let yourself cry.  You'll feel better I think.  Hold on, it will keep getting better even though it may not seem that way while it's happening.  :)

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by dani170, Jan 29, 2011
Keep it up Damtram...you're almost there!! What's wrong with crying in a car?? lol I do it all the time and it feels great! Let it out whenever it feels good and don't hold it in. That's what we've been doing all along and NOW'S THE TIME to let it go!!


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by NoraTorious, Jan 29, 2011
Dani is right, DamTram!

I am, by nature, pretty emotional, and I have had some pretty bad crying jags since. But they are countered by a lot more laughter.  While crying consoles me, laughter cures me. I think that is surely my ultimate drug of choice. I love to laugh, make people laugh, and hear laughter. Certain people in my life, are people with an amazing capacity for laughter, and all have amazing senses of humor, not to mention how great their laughs are.

Right now I am just waiting for my husband to come around, so we can go walking. I am watching 'Sophie Scholl:The Final Days', about Sophie Scholl who was part of the White Rose Resistance Movement, who were ant-nazi pacifist protesters. Watching and learning about people like these gives me strength. It reminds me that I am going through something hard right now, but it will pass. There are others who have been through far worse, for much nobler causes. I am hopeful, my husband will find work, I will get better, and hopefully, our little girl kitty will move on to the next place without much pain. And everyone here will also live freely, not as a slave to a bottle of pills. I only hope the journey becomes easier and easier for all of you.

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by wewar, Jan 29, 2011
I know this sounds a bit daft and may not be that practical but I saw a program on the internet TV made by the BBC about the brain and addiction emotions etc. Apparently if you do a fake smile for long enough it tricks the brain into releasing endorphins. I am doing it now and I think it works. I must look really silly. It did nothing for the villian in one of the batman films. Who was that villain?  Did Jack Nicholson play it ?

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by Thistime4real, Jan 29, 2011
Hello Everyone its been a lil while, it seemed everytime i got excited and wanted to write i would and the computer would die and during my wd it was really pissing me off, anyways i think im on day 5 or 6 Im not looking at my tracker currently, But i feel so good. The chills and sweats and zaps fell off a day ago....The sleep was a killer I went 3 days on only about 2 hours of sleep, almost had to give in and get an ambien cause i was just a zombie but I finally just layed there and forced myself to sleep, (an old army trick).  So anyways to be soooooo cliche It DOES GET BETTER :) the are some of the roughest times ahead but nothing beats looking back and knowing you slayed the scamadol beast.  I have been doing crossfit (which is insane) since day one of the withdrawals, I felt like since i was such a pro at CT i wanted to punish myself bad to keep me from looking back, I feel extremely positive about it and my recovery.  I have been addicted to Pain killers for 10 years and this is the best i have ever felt about it.  I even ranked 1 out of 10 for a police officer position in another city which is awesome! So although things may not be going great for you at the time you have to know regardless things will get better, although not linear progressive for sure.  And yes your body will come back to normal it always does we are resilient creatures.  I have really been inspired by all of you, Nora, Dam, ducky and even the new ones, it is all nice to see that people are coming for help.  I cannot stress enough to everyone in the early stages or working to breaking free to continue on. Dont lie to yourself dont fool yourself. LET IT GO and keep it going :)  This particular forum has been probably the single most influencing factor seeing the struggles and victories of fellow scamadol users.  Hang tough, the nights can only last so long, you can only get so tired before you will fall asleep, and the pain will only last a short time.  DONT GIVE IN, I am here for any support or questions as well as Everyone here.........Thank u to everyone who has helped me (namely every screen name of every poster on this thread :) incase I missed you.  Feel free to message me as I will with no regard message any of you if i need it because I will never go back. It feels way to good to smell the air and eat and exercise and cry and all of the good stuff in life that this pill will take away from you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    Finish the Fight Warriors.... Love ya All

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by ImDONENoMore, Jan 29, 2011
Wewar - yup - Jack Nicholson as the Joker - that was a GREAT movie, one of my all time favorites - Nicholson was amazing in that role.  Course, he's just amazing period.  :)

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by Thistime4real, Jan 29, 2011
OH and lol dani and dam, I am a 30yr old male and i consider myself a pretty cool guy.....Well I watched glee the other night on the wedding episode and could not stop smiling crying..OMG i am tearing up now...bahhhhhh anyways yes the tears are def different but for some reason to me they feel so good. They show me my feelings u know, the ones i buried beneath a bottle of 360 tramadols with 11 refills. I dont think the doctors wanted me to survive lol sheesh. But I showed em!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes my name is Joe, and I am a crier lol dont let a good song come on Ill cry, dont let me see a emotional movie, ill cry, but you know what I will eat salty tears all day long before i let another soul sucking pill pass my lips.

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by Thistime4real, Jan 29, 2011
Here is a pic of my rescue - a papillion and chihuahua mix from right here in LA.  Just adorable! Also if u go to my profile I added some cool pics of my deployments in the army they are a lil more fun pics then the ones you usually see, for instance there is one with me sitting with 1 million dollars in us money we found in one lil tiny village there....It was pretty crazy to see people not knowing what that was and we are like wow

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by NoraTorious, Jan 29, 2011
Thistime, you constantly make me proud! First the excersise, and how good you sound, and the police officer thing. I returned to school after studying Art History and Costume Design for Forensic Technology and Admin of Justice. I hope to become a print reader with the Sheriff's dept in so cal or in the northwest. This country needs good decent cops.

Now you are telling me you watch GLEE? Big army man watching glee and crying? And rescuing such cute dogs? I am so impressed by you. Living in a Navy town that is so close to camp Pendleton, i have the unfortunate experience with these heartless servicemen beating up gays, kicking dogs, etc. I am lucky to have many friends in the service who are above all that hooey, and you fit the bill! You are 10 times the 'man' if you can cry. I come from a long line of cryers (in the service, may I remind you) and my brothers and father are big fellas. But we start watching movies and I watch them turn into a puddle. Your wife is lucky to have a man like you. My husband is very emotional. He came in during the last part of 'Sophie Scholl' and got all weepy. So good for you!!!! You have more courage than I could ever imagine.

Wewar, they say it takes more muscles to frown than to smile. And I am a big follower of smile therapy. Remember that the
Bodhisattva is depicted with a smile because his enlightenment is brought on with great joy. I need to look up that website and learn more about meditation. I got okay at it when I did yoga, but the Tramadol took over my head for too long.

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by Thistime4real, Jan 29, 2011
Definitely Nora I'm a huge gleek. My wife isa great woman. She unfortunately last night became overwhelmed with her job. She is a 30 lvl 3 accountant youngest in the city getting her masters and survived sle lupus chemotherapy she has courage but unfortunately it caught up with her and she attempted suicide. I say that to say this. Rough times come for all of us but for reasons. She is ok and she is being taken care of for the weekend but look what tramadol did. It kept me from being able to help the burden of those I love. That is reason enough to get off. People say but you seem so positive for someone who almost lost it all. Yes I am
Cause I didn't lose it all. I got another chance. Just like all of u. We all have rough things but when things get hard what are u going to do with your chance? I refuse to let mine go. I'm taking this chance to the bank and ill be dammed if ill let anything keep me or all of us down. I will strengthen my family after weakening it. I will not stop. I will never quit. My wife will be ok. And now I get my opportunity to be her backbone since she was mine for so long. So everyone use this chance and don't let a dam thing stand in the way bulldozed your self into a good life!

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by DamTram, Jan 29, 2011
Mad, Dani, Ducky, Nora, ImDone, WeWar, ThisTime....THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!

I feel much more at ease that the tears will come in time, and I will handle them when they do.  I'm enjoying laughing so much, and I've cried so much in the last 6 months...I guess I just figured it was too good to be true!  Kind of like...SLEEPING FOR 4 HOURS IN A ROW!!!  But...it's true.  With Melatonin, GABA, Valerian, and Hyland's...that is.  =)  Sometimes no Valerian.  It depends on my panic levels.  Can't wait for this Effexor to be gone, gone, gone!!  Not looking forward to the brain zaps, though.  *Kicks drug companies in the head*

ThisTime --  Your post was cracking me up!!  And your pictures are fantastic!  I loved the parachute one...YOU ARE SUCH A WARRIOR!  Go kick some more Tramadol ***!

Smiling is funny...you smile for the camera with a different part of the brain than when you see a friend walking towards you.  People who have brain damage in one part and can no longer smile in that circumstance can STILL smile in the other.  Here's $50 on WHICH ONE TRAMA*** TURNED OFF!!  

Hurray for brain plasticity!!  Hurray!


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by Thistime4real, Jan 29, 2011
Oh and Nora here is a lil paratrooper joke for ya. Only two things fall from the sky. Bird s*** and paratroopers.  Chicken s*** stays on the ground. Airborne all the way.

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by Ducky444, Jan 29, 2011
Wewar, I know the brain thing is true I used to do that as a kid, smile at myself in the mirror when I felt like crap. Kids start out knowing this stuff and unlearn it as we go. Thistime4real thanks for sharing that devastating experience with us all. I'm glad she has you waiting to help her and getting stronger yourself! Thank you for Serving theres always a huge price. Good luck on the new opportunities, you too Nora cool ideas sweet little animal in such good hands.

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by Thistime4real, Jan 29, 2011
Ok so Nora since we are official so Cal buddies and anyone else inso Cal for that matter my goal is this. For all of us to do at least one Irvine lake mud run. Its fun and for charity and what a great way to celebrate recovery than by mud.  Its gonna happen so ..........

Second thing. Heard this awesome quote last night just inspirational to me to be a hero.
" he is the hero the city deserves,  not the one it needs right now.so we chase him
Because he can take it. Because he isn't a hero. He is a silent defender. A vigilante protector. A dark Knight. "  hey I'm not perfect so u can never be the atypical hero but I like ths quote.

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by Ducky444, Jan 29, 2011
I want a live in southern California !!!! Sigh I don't, coastal south. Used to live in seattle....

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by Thistime4real, Jan 29, 2011
Ya NC wasnt horrible for me I loved Myrtle beach

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by Ducky444, Jan 29, 2011
Very close!

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by NoraTorious, Jan 29, 2011
My husband lived in Seattle for about 12-14 years. I love the Northwest.

Oy, Thistime, that looks rough. I promised myself the first thing I did in that caliber is AIDSwalk, but I need to keep this mud run in mind. It looks fun. Tramadol and pain has made me into a marshmallow. But I am trying to work up strength to get back into adapted fitness for yoga, and then to be able to fence again. Your wife sounds amazing, and I am so glad you have each other.

My heroes are the underdogs. The flawed people. Someone who perhaps failed, or had a rough patch, but overcame it. people who are 'perfect' deemed by our society's  standards are boring. Failure is just taking the back door to success.

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by Thistime4real, Jan 29, 2011
Ya check out the website. Irvine lake mudrun. U can walk crawl or float or whatever for 3 miles with fun all between. I love it last year when everyone finished we all left our muddy shoes and a company cleaned them and donated over 3 Thousand pairs to those in need so its def cool. Ya aidswalk for sure actually in so-cal u can pretty much do a dif org every day!

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by Thistime4real, Jan 29, 2011
One of my pica in my profile page is me and my wife in the mud at the mudrun last year

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by NoraTorious, Jan 29, 2011
Yeah, most every walk/run goes by our house as well! :-)

I figured it was you and your wife @ mud run. It is very cute. You guys look like you are having a good time.

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by Ducky444, Jan 29, 2011
I think those running days are over for lil' ol me. But you young ones have at it! that's what you should be doing-good not so clean fun drug free!ThisT4R, you are an adorable couple heal well together-corny but I think of this messy life stuff as the wind storms I loved in the northwest along the coast trees are twisted but the roots grow so strong-down here too but different trees... When you go you can send pics...

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by Thistime4real, Jan 29, 2011
True story ducky! Its a surreal feeling when u sit amongst the chaos and almost matrix like everything slows down and u just know everything will be ok. And as for those just breaking free the light at the end of the tunnel is very close. This feeling of even day 5 of a 5 year abuse is more wonderful than any moment of a mouth full of poison pills. Nora we gonna be ok huh? Isn't that crazy ask me 5 days ago would have been a different story.

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by Ducky444, Jan 29, 2011
Beautiful

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by NoraTorious, Jan 29, 2011
We are going to be excellent. You are doing so well for your 5th day. I think I was still building a close personal relationship with my bathroom in the detox hospital at that point. But it was the first day I ate food. The food there was not too bad. My last night, my Mom & Dad brought In and Out Burger, and that was fantastic! Food tasted so different! I can tast spices and things I could not taste before.

I think about how bad I was last year. So depressed, fearful, agoraphobic and hooked on my meds. Unable to take care of myself. And even though I don't feel fantastic, my heard is clear, I bathe on a regular basis, I am getting outside, and I have a remarkable amount of clarity, and a better way to put things in perspective. I am too young to be taking so many meds. I am glad to be free, and I look forward to better days.

YAY FOR EVERYBODY!!!

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by Thistime4real, Jan 29, 2011
God is great beer is good and people are crazy :)

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by heal303, Jan 29, 2011
Hi Everyone,Hope I'm posting in the rt place. Just realized I am addicted to Tram. :(   Will write more when when I get replies.  Thanks :)

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by heal303, Jan 29, 2011
Oh I see this posted ok. I have chronic Lyme and co-infections. In the 80's my thyroid became overactive and the docs put me on valium and a pill that burned out my thyroid. Then yrs down the line I found I was addicted to it. When through hell getting off. Doc's took me off cold turkey 2 times and almost died. After I got off I was physically ill and dxed with MCS,Fibro and CFIDS. Became disabled. 23 yrs later dxed with lyme and co- infections,heavy metals,KPU/HPU Pyrroluria. Started treatment which is worse than the disease. Extreme pain and total exhaustion. My doc gave me Tram and said it wasn't addictive. Needless to say here I am addicted. Figured that hot the other night when my doc gave me a sample of Naltrexone which a lot of lymies r using and its helping. I thought I was going to die that night. Could not sleep,horrible anxiety,heart palps, nausea and more. Did a lot of searching for answers and found Tram is addictive and a Nov 1,2010 PDR came out and says it is. Plus I read somewhere it should not be taken with Naltrexone. Hope this all makes sense,between the Tram and Lyme an co fog,confusion not sure. Hoping to get support. Do replies come to my mail box ? Thanks :)

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by ImDONENoMore, Jan 29, 2011
Thistime4real - I have to tell you - OMG if that isn't the cutest little puppy - what a DOLL.  G-d bless you for saving her (him?).  I mean that, g-d bless you.  SO SWEET!!!!!!!!!!!!  I'm so happy for both of you.  :)

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by ImDONENoMore, Jan 29, 2011
Welcome heal303 - so glad you made it here.

The replies from your posts come here but we do all have access to private messaging - you'll see with time how the whole site is set up.  Took me a little bit to figure it out, but you'll see the more you walk around the site what your options are for communicating.  And you may have done this already, but it's a good idea to save this page as a favorite so coming back will be easy.

But again - welcome!  The best advice I can give you is to start from some of the previous pages and READ.  Once I found my way here, everything about this horrible drug became so very clear.  The so-called "nonaddictive" nonsense told to us by Dr.'s (however, I believe that's starting to change some - too bad we all had to suffer first for that to happen though right?)  But anyway, the information I found here, and the support, was huge for me.  It's kept me going and has kept me strong - I'm over 6 months now off of this poison and it was the BEST decision of my life.

So feel free to let us know in detail what you're experiencing and I know we will all reply to you to let you know what helped us.  I'm really happy that you've arrived and now know the horrors behind this drug (funny that's a good thing - it is).  Because freedom from this nightmare of a drug is waiting right around the corner for you.

Tell us some more info on how much you were taking, how long it's been since you stopped, that kind of stuff and believe me you will get lots of great advice here.  I look forward to future posts from you.  Being here is the BEST first step you'll see!

:)

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by Ducky444, Jan 29, 2011
Heal303 welcome, so glad you made it here. I'm on my 13th day off tram- the worst may be over, not sure because it s not a linear wd. This is a complicated synthetic drug that, I'm learning, effects parts of Brain other drugs don't. It's a strange dangerous drug. We are all here to get through it together.

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by NoraTorious, Jan 29, 2011
HEAL,303-first, welcome! Second, please read my post on Jan 28. This is a highly addictive drug! But it appears the makers were deceptive about it. Yes, the last 2 PDRs are now warning about how addictive it is, and dangerous it can be, especially when combined with other drugs. I was taking it at a very lethal level, and combined with my antidepressant, I was extremely lucky I did not experience seizures or death. I will not be suprised when its classification will change and will soon be considered a true narcotic.

I am on my 24th day and I do feel better. I hope this is the beginning of more good days vs bad days! :-)

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by DamTram, Jan 29, 2011
Heal303 - Welcome!

I'm on Day 12 (right behind Ducky!) and was put on Tram in August for Fibromyalgia.  At first it helped, and then it led me through a downward spiral to CRAZY TOWN, which led to an overdose in December.  It makes you think that you are sicker and more in pain than you are, and it robs you of all hope and lasting joy.  AND, it makes you think that YOU are the one that is innately crazy.  

The withdrawals ARE WORSE THAN FROM ANY OPIATE, so READ THESE POSTS FOR ADVICE BEFORE GETTING OFF!  Otherwise, you may find yourself thinking that you are going to die and unable to go get the vitamins and supplements that will save you from thinking that you are going to die.  

You are not going to die, and under the shroud of Trama****, THERE IS A HEALTHIER AND STRONGER YOU THAN YOU'VE EVER KNOWN.  

And we will all be here to help you in the process.

THANK YOU FOR THE PDR INFO!!  My father is a doctor and HAS NOT BELIEVED ME BECAUSE THE INFO WASN'T IN THE PDR!  *#@$*%#@$(@#$

All my love.

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by DamTram, Jan 29, 2011
Oh right!

Tramadol is EXTRA SPECIAL SAUCE because it is BOTH a partial opioid agonist AND flushes your receptors with seratonin and norepinephrine JUST LIKE MDMA/ECSTASY!  

I know...can you believe that, guys?  That's where we got those 2 hours of energy.  

grumble...grumble...grumble...

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by Thistime4real, Jan 30, 2011
Lol God I love u damtram .....
..

....such truth. This is a lethal drug and u must make ready to wage war on it heal. U have is all here we will answer and talk whatever u need. Trust me go back and read old posts and I'll see I'm sure just like Emily that we all go through it BUT ITS SO BETTER WITHOUT IT!     Trust me I am only on day 5 of a 5 year prescription to the devil and I wouldn't trade a million dollars for the way I feel now

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by kaz47, Jan 30, 2011
Hi everyone - glad you are all doing well and hanging in there. My husband is now on day 19 after tramadol - original symptoms ie runny nose, sore throat, night sweats, major anxiety etc seem to have disappeared but sleep is still very much up and down as is RLS. RLS was terrible the first week and has got better but every 2 or 3 days comes back with a vengence - lucky we know from you good people that are ahead of us in this that the recovery is not linear and this is to be expected. Evenings now are fine - in the early stages he was fidgety all evening - this is now much better. The RLS kicks in about midnight which obviously then impacts on sleep - the Hylands sometimes seems to work and at other times doesn't. He is also drinking tonic water in the evening - not really sure how much of an impact this is having but it is worth a go! Last night was a bad night - couldn't sleep and got up to watch tv - probably had about an hours sleep if that. Physically the insomnia isn't giving him too many poroblems as unlike many posters since he has stopped taking the pills he has heaps of energy a thousand times more than in the past 2 years of taking the medication. Mentally it is a bit wearing - he didn't want to go back to the doctor so we have ordered melatonin which is not available here over the counter. I live in hope that by the time it eventually wings its way across the Atlantic he wont need it. I would like to particularly thank MADTRAM  for the support she gives and the good advice she shares with others on this forum - you have kept us going through the difficult times as we know you were on a similar dosage to my husband but for a longer period of time and that you came out the other side and things do get better. Thankyou soooo much for taking the time to keep posting - think it is really important that those who were here a while ago drop back in to give others who are at the start of their journey the hope they need to keep with it. GOOD lUCK EVERYONE - YOU CAN DO IT!



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by Ducky444, Jan 30, 2011
Day 14, I'm humbled. Never thought I'd make it this far. I find I wake and kind of look for something to change my reality, then take stock, talk myself back to being ok with the present-actually present. New! Even a little ok with "now" seems to be enough to keep me on track, thank God. Heal303 I too struggled for years with a devasting autoimmune disease that almost killed me in my thrities. Scleroderma. I was not able to walk, my hands were like stones couldn't button, zip....lost lung capacity and other organs started turning to rock on me. I was not expected to survive the 1st yr. Heavy metal toxins are thought to have had a part in this one too, not surprising at all. But by far the worse symptom,which never subsided even after I made a massive comeback, is the deep fatigue. Tram was the only thing that ever helped with that-until it didn't!  I tell you this long boring story so you'll see most of us started the drug legitimately and then found we were trapped. I recovered from the disease the first time by using positive methods, meditation, massage, talk and physical therapy I am trying to that again.  I did take toxic meds during the ten worst years of the disease until I couldn't tell where the symptoms were coming from from the disease or the drugs. I stopped the drugs then and went natural and mental healing. Then picked up again (tram) when doc said oh this ones perfect for you. All the best to all if you. I once knew and I'm learning again we humans are amazing healing machines, we are meant to be strong and healthy, left to it's own device we will heal.

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by Ducky444, Jan 30, 2011
PS, DamTram-I'm sorry to hear that your own doc dad didn't get it. I know they mean well but my experience with my doctors has been they really didn't want to hear from me, just saw no value in partnering with me on my healing. I remember my first rheumatologist laughed at me for using Chi Gong & other naturals (which helped btw) then a few years later he's selling Ginger supplements in his office...

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by DamTram, Jan 30, 2011
Thanks, Ducky...it was a downer to have a doctor treating me like I was nutso for the first time in six months that I didn't FEEL nutso.  So it goes.

ThisTime - Thank you!  Sending love out West to you.  You crack me up.

Kaz - SOOO glad hubby is doing better!  My mom, especially, appreciated hearing your posts in Part 40...as someone in the trenches with the recoverer.  I would take energy over insomnia, any day of the week.  I DO take energy over insomnia any day of the week.  =)  Yay!

Day 13 Tramadol, Day 1 Effexor...after reading all of the posts in the Effexor forum, I came to the conclusion that my taper was not going to hold off the inevitable 0mg and brain zaps...or even lessen them.  So I took my last dose of it yesterday morning, but am now overwhelmed by the brain zaps.  I took Ginger Root, the Omegas, Vit E, and 5htp...but if I'm still getting shocked soon, I will take another dose of the 19mg.  This is putrid, ya'll!  Also, the vivid dreams are getting crazy (in one, any MacBook purchaser had to begin to take IV drugs...in another, I was smoking something out of a pipe.  Both things I've never done).

Happy Sunday!

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by EmilyPost, Jan 30, 2011
This thread is closed!

Please come to;

http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/264497/Tramadol--Ultram-Recovery-Room-Part-42

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